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The nature of human free will
1986 | R.C. Sproul

Posted on 02/24/2003 9:12:32 AM PST by Frumanchu

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To: Wrigley
Are you sure you don't know who the author is?

No, but it does look like a post I made sometime back, but I cannot remember who it was.

141 posted on 03/11/2003 5:10:58 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration; Wrigley; RnMomof7; Jean Chauvin
it does look like a post I made sometime back ~ ftd Woody.

The sith: Always 2 there are. But which one, the master or the puppet.
142 posted on 03/11/2003 5:15:25 PM PST by CCWoody
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To: fortheDeclaration
Mario R. Velez Jr.
Professor of New Testament Studies
Charis Seminary and Bible Institute
In Houston, Texas

Link

143 posted on 03/11/2003 5:18:54 PM PST by DouglasKC (Doesn't anyone know how to do a Google search??)
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To: CCWoody; Corin Stormhands; Revelation 911
it does look like a post I made sometime back ~ ftd B Bwa BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Woody. The sith: Always 2 there are. But which one, the master or the puppet.

You really are cracking up aren't you! LOL!

144 posted on 03/11/2003 5:19:48 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: DouglasKC; CCWoody; rdb3; Wrigley; RnMomof7; drstevej; Jerry_M; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; the_doc; ...
"Charis Seminary and Bible Institute"

Charis "Seminary"????

$30 per class???????

Hey Woody, I think you found your Cracker-Jack Theology Degree! Also found this: "Distinguished" Alumnus of Charis "Seminary":

The "Reverend" Lisa Berry-Dockery
Host of the weekly "Person to Person" on AM 1430 KCOH
Associate Pastor of St. Agnes Baptist Church
She is an alumnus of Houston Baptist University and Charis Theological Seminary (source)

"The station also happens to have community-minded personalities, the likes of Lisa Berry Dockery, who openly supports Quannel X (New Black Panthers) and the Black United Front" (source)

Perhaps rdb3 can enlighten us as to the positions of these groups.

Jean

145 posted on 03/11/2003 7:31:04 PM PST by Jean Chauvin ("Het lot wordt weliswaar ongezien geworpen, maar de HERE bepaalt hoe het valt." -Sprueken 16:33)
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To: Jean Chauvin; CCWoody; fortheDeclaration
$30 per class???????

Oh c'mon Jean. I know nothing of the Charis Seminary folks. Never heard of 'em before tonight.

But it's a cheap shot to question them because of how much they charge, or don't charge. That has nothing to do with their validity.

146 posted on 03/11/2003 7:49:19 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (Screw the UN. Let's Roll!)
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To: CCWoody; Jean Chauvin; Wrigley; fortheDeclaration
I guess that Corin is going to have to get a second bucket of popcorn.

Nope. Sorry. Sweeps week is over. I'm going back on my diet in the morning.

Good luck in the ratings.

147 posted on 03/11/2003 7:50:46 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (Screw the UN. Let's Roll!)
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To: Jean Chauvin; Polycarp; DouglasKC; CCWoody; rdb3; Wrigley; RnMomof7; Jerry_M; ...
Look who is the Hero of the Month of Charis Seminary....

...our old pal.

148 posted on 03/11/2003 8:19:42 PM PST by drstevej
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To: Hank Kerchief
The material world had a beginning, because the material world is temporal and constrained by the laws of material existence. The supernatural world of which God is the source, and it all "springs" from him is eternal. That does not mean that everything in the supernatural realm is eternal, but that the realm itself must be, else it could not be God's realm. The natural world is a subset of the supernatural world, and was (as a technical explanation) differentiated from the supernatural world by the imposition of those qualtities we call the spatial/temporal(physical)laws of nature. If you say God made the material world out of nothing, it makes God nothing.

Classical Hank, so deep nobody gets you. :)

As I understand it, God made the created world, including the seen and the unseen, out of Himself. When the physicists "discover" that the mysterious black matter of the universe is really light, call me. Always a delight to see your mind at work. JS

149 posted on 03/12/2003 12:02:57 AM PST by JesseShurun
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To: Jean Chauvin; Corin Stormhands
Actually Jean, I think the classes should be free, as you have freely received, freely give .
150 posted on 03/12/2003 2:26:58 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: drstevej; xzins
Look who is the Hero of the Month of Charis Seminary.... ...our old pal.

So? What was wrong with Polycarp?

151 posted on 03/12/2003 2:31:41 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: drstevej; xzins
I noticed that no one is saying anything about 'Charis's' statement of faith, well what about it?

Also, wasn't Custance a Calvinist? (I believe he is deceased now)

152 posted on 03/12/2003 2:40:54 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration; Polycarp
Nothing is wrong with Polycarp, either the original or the FReeper version. I thought Polycarp (FReeper one) might get a kick out of this.
153 posted on 03/12/2003 3:24:07 AM PST by drstevej
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To: fortheDeclaration
Are you affiliated with Charis Seminary?
154 posted on 03/12/2003 3:42:11 AM PST by drstevej
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To: fortheDeclaration; drstevej; CCWoody; Wrigley; RnMomof7; Jerry_M; Matchett-PI; the_doc; ...
"Also, wasn't Custance a Calvinist? "

It looks like Custance's "calvinism" is irrelevant.

It appears they like him for his goofy 'Gap-Theory' of Creation:

Historical Evidence of The Gap Theory

Pre-Geologic Age

Almost without exception, the Gap theory is credited to Dr. George Chalmers of Edinburg University in 1814. Supposedly Dr. Chalmers introduced this theory in an attempt to harmonize the Genesis account with the vast periods of time demanded by uniformitarian geologists. It is then claimed to have been elaborated by George H. Pember in his work (Earth's Earliest Ages) in 1876, and finally popularized in the footnotes of the Scofield Reference Bible beginning in 1917. Today, it is said that only pinheads and nitwits of dubious scholastic background maintain a belief in the "Gap Theory". If, as it is today asserted, the theory can only be traced back to Dr. Chalmers, then the statement of its reason for introduction should not be discounted. On the other hand, if the theory antedates both Dr. Chalmers and any uniformitarian geologist, then it should and indeed must be investigated by any serious student of scripture to determine why such a Gap exist.

Mark E. Howerter, in his work "Creation VS Evolution: The Gap Theory Explained", follows the now accepted view when he wrote:

Uninformed Christians have propagated two theories that have tried to reconcile the Bible with evolution. They have done this because from kindergarten through graduate school it is taught that evolution is a proven scientific fact. Christians have swallowed this hook, line and sinker. They have tried to get God out of a bind, so to speak, because the Bible is in direct contradiction with the theory of evolution. People who take the Bible seriously and literally have introduced two theories to explain how the Bible and evolution can be reconciled. These theories are commonly known as the Gap Theory and the Day-Age Theory.

Again, the above statement is typical of the majority view of the "informed" world of Christian theology and treats anyone who holds to the Gap Theory as being a child like uninformed Christian. It is further and again insinuated, that the theory was developed in order to reconcile the Bible and evolution. However, D. F. Payne, in his paper published by Tyndale Press entitled, "Genesis One Reconsidered", makes a brief statement which alludes to a different view than that of the majority: "The 'gap' theory itself, as a matter of exegesis, antedated the scientific challenge, but the latter gave it a new impetus". The right question to such a statement should have been, 'by how long did it antedate the scientific challenge, and how explicit are the earlier references.' Arthur C. Custance, rightly asserts in the book entitled "Without Form And Void." "If its antecedence can be established with any certainty, one then has to find some other reason than the threat of Geology for its having arisen".

It seems fair to state that if the Gap Theory was an accepted view held by earlier Christian commentators, it was presented without any intention of refuting a geological challenge to the veracity of the Holy Scriptures. It must therefore have arisen either because of a careful study of the original text of Scripture itself had given intimations of it, or perhaps due to some ancient tradition about the after-effects of the catastrophe itself. Why then has modern Christianity continued to assert that the Gap Theory is of modern origins? But, lest we get ahead of ourselves, let us continue our search backwards to find the true origin, if any, of the Gap Theory.

History records that during and after the Babylonian Captivity, the Jewish people began accumulating the comments and explanations of their best-known teachers of the Old Testament. These teachings were gathered together and are called the Midrash, the oldest pre-Christian exposition of the Old Testament. Louis Ginsberg, in his work entitled, "The Legends of the Jews," recorded this excerpt from the first chapter of Genesis:

from the Charis "Seminary" website

Jean

155 posted on 03/12/2003 4:00:08 AM PST by Jean Chauvin ("Het lot wordt weliswaar ongezien geworpen, maar de HERE bepaalt hoe het valt." -Sprueken 16:33)
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To: Jean Chauvin
Nothing 'goofy' about the Gap 'theory', it is fact. (2Pet.3:5-6) The earth standing out of the water and in the water (cf), And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters (Gen.1:2)
156 posted on 03/12/2003 4:40:18 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: drstevej
Are you affiliated with Charis Seminary?

I once was, but left because of differences on certain issues.

I was recently asked to come and teach a apolgetics class, which I agreed to do.

I do not regard myself as part of the 'seminary, which to be frank, is a seminary in name only.

157 posted on 03/12/2003 5:00:20 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: drstevej
Nothing is wrong with Polycarp, either the original or the FReeper version. I thought Polycarp (FReeper one) might get a kick out of this.

Amen!

158 posted on 03/12/2003 5:01:21 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration
Thanks for the answer, just curious.
159 posted on 03/12/2003 6:03:09 AM PST by drstevej
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To: JesseShurun
Classical Hank, so deep nobody gets you. :)

As I understand it, God made the created world, including the seen and the unseen, out of Himself.

I don't expect everyone to "get" me, but obviously you have no problem.

In this case, what I said is very close to what you said yourself. I almost agree with you. (Most theologians, I think, would be upset at the expression, He made everythint "out of Himself." I like it, because it neatly does away with the ex nihilo notion, because certainly God is not nothing.

My only problem is I believe to say God exists is logically meaningless if nothing else exists, for two reasons: 1. by way of analogy, since God is not limited by material space and time, for anything to exist it must exist "somewhere" (what I call the supernatural realm) in "some form" (what I call God's nature; and 2. Since God's nature is eternal, and one aspect of that nature is creator, it is impossible that there was ever a state where God had not "created."

I take the verse in Ecclesiates 3:14, "I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him." to mean "eternal," in the sense of without beginning or end:

(By the way, do you know how long it took man to discover the law of conservation of matter and energy? ...and here it was all along.)

Psalms 102:12 But thou, O LORD, shalt endure for ever; and thy remembrance unto all generations.

Certainly God endures "for ever" without beginning or end.

Psslms 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Again, God's righteous judgements did not have a beginning.

John 12:34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?

So Christ abides forever, that is, eternally, without beginning or end.

Rom. 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Chirst is certainly "God blessed" eternally.

Often "for ever" means, "from now on and never to end," but, except where that meaning is clear, it usually means, "eternally, without beginning or end."

Hank

160 posted on 03/12/2003 7:28:51 AM PST by Hank Kerchief
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