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To: Gophack
Having read Sacrosanctum Concilium (the Vatican II document on Liturgy) I can say it is a fairly reasonable document. Having said that I must say that the Novus Ordo Mass does not adhere to much of it. Notably, SC states that Latin IS TO BE PRESERVED while the LIMITS of the vernacular may be extended. No doubt there are "conservative" theologians who will state that the Novus Ordo does not contradict the documents of VaticanII but their arguments tend to be mere sophistry. Christ may have distinguished between the Spirit and the letter of the law, but He did not disregard the letter of the law entirely. Pope Paul IV seemed to sense that something had gone awry. There is much confusion in the Church and Scripture has it that God is not a God of confusion but a God of order. I question whether the so called "Spirit of Vatican II" is indeed the Holy Spirit or something darker.
16 posted on 03/12/2003 11:56:14 AM PST by TradicalRC (Fides quaerens intellectum.)
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To: TradicalRC
I agree with you on the "Spirit of Vatican II". This is an interpretation of Vatican II, not what it actually says. Vatican II sought, I believe, to open the faith more fully to Catholics and Truth-seekers who, in this day and age, perhaps needed more "down to earth" explanations -- especially those who did not go to Catholic School for 12 years and found it difficult to understand why Catholics do what we do.

It has been unfortunate that so many priests and bishops have gone along with the "spirit" of VII, rather than adhere to it's clear reasoning. I do believe in ecumenanism (sp?) in order to bring more people into the faith, but not to the extent that we change the deposit of faith.

However, I do believe the deposit of faith has been well-protected by the Holy Spirit and that He will continue to do so.
17 posted on 03/12/2003 12:04:16 PM PST by Gophack
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To: TradicalRC; Gophack
Having said that I must say that the Novus Ordo Mass does not adhere to much of it.

I agree to the extent that many priests and bishops have interpreted SC to suit their own purposes. This has lead to disorder. Perhaps the one truly RARE exception to this is the mass on EWTN.

The Mass on EWTN is in keeping with the norms for the Roman Rite. Anyone who has been to Rome or to one of the great shrines of Europe knows this. Unfortunately in many places the great tradition of the Roman Rite is being obliterated by banal (and illicit) innovations, and de-Romanized by the elimination of Latin and Chant. The effect has been that the young have no experience of a truly Catholic liturgy and older people have forgotten it or been convinced it is "out-of-date."

By offering the Mass in Latin and English the desire of the Second Vatican Council and all Popes since the Council for Latin to be retained is satisfied. Pope Paul VI, in granting permission for the vernacular languages, stated that he wanted Catholics to retain the use of the Church's sacred language in the Proper Responses (Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus etc.). Pope John Paul II also wants the Church's language to be used. This was repeated yet again in the latest document from the Holy See on the Sacred Liturgy, the 4th Implementing Document of the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy of the Second Vatican Council (1994). In fact, this goal is part of every document Rome has released on the liturgy, including paragraph 19 of the General Instruction to the Roman Missal (the book used on the altar). [See also Latin and English in the Mass]

EWTN broadcasts worldwide by TV and WEWN short-wave so it is appropriate that Latin be part of the Mass for that reason. Catholics who don't know English can follow the Mass by its universal structure and even participate in the universal language of the Church.

Finally, the Mass on EWTN/WEWN educates Catholics concerning the true nature of the liturgical reform called for by the Council and the popes since, and which in many cases has been co-opted by those with their own agenda. It shows Catholics the glory of the Roman Rite as it is possible even now, using the current missal. By its fidelity to the intentions of the Magisterium it thus glorifies the Father, in the Church, through Jesus Christ.


19 posted on 03/12/2003 12:07:54 PM PST by NYer (Kyrie Eleison)
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To: TradicalRC
Have you ever watched the N.O. Mass on EWTN? It is quite beautiful, IMO.

Having read Sacrosanctum Concilium (the Vatican II document on Liturgy) I can say it is a fairly reasonable document. Having said that I must say that the Novus Ordo Mass does not adhere to much of it.

I read Sacrosanctum Concilium as well and I do think the Novus Ordo adheres to it - it is some of the priests who do not adhere to it.

25 posted on 03/12/2003 12:26:49 PM PST by american colleen (Christe Eleison!)
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