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Review of Liturgical Reform Proposed by Cardinal Sodano
Zenit News Agency ^ | August 29, 2003 | Zenit

Posted on 08/30/2003 10:58:53 AM PDT by Loyalist

VATICAN CITY, AUG. 29, 2003 (Zenit.org).- Four decades after the liturgical reform carried out by the Second Vatican Council, it is right to examine the way it has been implemented, in order to relaunch it, says Cardinal Angelo Sodano.

The Vatican secretary of state made that proposal in a letter to the participants in Italy's National Liturgical Week, held in the town of Acireale. The event ended today.

In the letter, which expresses the Pope's greetings to the participants, Cardinal Sodano reflected on the 1963 constitution "Sacrosanctum Concilium," approved by the council fathers.

"Forty years later, it is right to ask what the liturgical reform itself has represented for the renewal of Christian communities, to what degree the liturgy, reformed according to the indications of the council, is able to mediate between faith and life, so that it forms believers able to offer consistent evangelical testimony," the cardinal said.

At the same time, "it is useful to ask oneself with clarity and sincerity if the reform has experienced some weak point and where, and, above all, how it can be relaunched for the good of the Christian people," he added.

According to the cardinal, the challenge the Church faces today is "to translate the reform in the life of the believer, called to integrate himself in the communion that the Son desires to establish with each one, a communion that we celebrate constantly in the liturgy."

Cardinal Sodano presented these questions to the participants in the Liturgical Week and asked them to give thoughtful answers. At the same time, he offered guidelines for their answers.

"Although it can rightly be said that the conciliar reform has been carried out, the liturgical pastoral program represents a permanent commitment which enables one to draw from the richness of the liturgy the vital force that is spread from Christ to the members of the Body, which is the Church," he said.

In this connection, "perhaps some of the principles of the constitution have to be better understood and more faithfully applied," the cardinal added.

In particular, he said, "it is useful to analyze some specific topics such as, for example, the relation between creativity and fidelity, between spiritual worship and life, between catechesis and celebration of the Mystery, between liturgical presidency and role of the assembly, between formation in the seminaries and the permanent formation of priests."


TOPICS: Catholic; Worship
KEYWORDS: angelosodano; catholiclist; liturgy; mass; reform
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Comment #141 Removed by Moderator

Comment #142 Removed by Moderator

To: ninenot
Well, then, why couldn't people who object to the vernacular mass club together and petition Rome to declare it invalid?
143 posted on 09/01/2003 5:16:00 PM PDT by dsc
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To: TheCrusader
Maybe it's the Hula Mass that turns you on?

Directed to Sinky.

That's perhaps not a lie, because it is an interrogatory.

Sink and I have some differences which are serious; but both of us are past the time when a Hula Mass MAY have been entertaining--and both of us are quite well-prepared to denounce one of these for what it is: pandering, no matter what the attraction may be.

You're over the top.

Further, the Mass. Attorney-General is a politician (in case you didn't know.) Those 1,000 cases are spread out over 60 YEARS--and most of them are allegations which will NEVER be proven.

I am sure that with your sense of justice as finely tuned as it is, you do understand the difference between allegation and conviction--right?

And, if it's not too fine a point, politicians such as Attorney Generals are all too happy to exaggerate the vices of their targets to assure themselves a re-election.

These are sad times for the Church, but the world has not ended--and even if it did, it's YOUR soul you can worry about--not mine, nor Sinky's nor Rembert Weakland's.

144 posted on 09/01/2003 7:00:55 PM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: dsc
The Mass is NOT invalid, and this ain't no petition/referendum society we belong to.

Infelicitous? Imprudent? Injudicious? I'll go there--but never invalid.
145 posted on 09/01/2003 7:02:41 PM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: sinkspur
I don't believe that the traditionalists who desire the Tridentine Rite are all that large in terms of numbers, so the bishops can seemingly get away with ignoring them.

Maybe not large, but growing by leaps and bounds. All you have to do is look at the family sizes in the Tridentine parishes as opposed to those in the NO parishes. If nothing changes, those raised in Tridentine parishes will come to outnumber those raised in NO parishes in a couple generations.

And I don't even want to mention the comparison in the number of seminarians produced by each rite....
146 posted on 09/01/2003 7:42:57 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: sinkspur
Reading all the frustration that you, and others, have expressed on FR has given me a sense of how deeply your adherence to the 1962 Mass is felt, and, yes, how that Mass needs to be the focal point of a parish that is responsive to your needs (baptisms, funerals, and other sacraments).

Holy smokes! I can't believe what I'm reading. I guess our prayers have been working, eh Deacon?
147 posted on 09/01/2003 7:49:22 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: sinkspur
Actually, the really interesting division among the bishops on allowing the Tridentine is that it is more often than not the LIBERAL bishops who have been most generous in allowing the Tridentine and the more conservative bishops who seem to feel that allowing the Tridentine may undermine their authority in some way. Roger McCaffery, former publisher and founder of The Latin Mass magazine has written extensively in that magazine on exactly that point. Obviously there are exceptions in each group.

This is one where the more liberal among Catholics have earned credit. It tends to be the more conservative Catholics who want, often, to abolish the Novus Ordo with all the unnecessary pain that would entail for those devoted to the NO, pain that would echo the intense pain suffered by their Tridentine predecessors in the 1960s.

Each Mass is valid. Neither Mass should ever be said in such a way as to fail in reverence. Each should be said according to its own reverent rubrics. Finally, it is a bad idea for Tridentine Catholics to ghettoize themselves self-indulging in all the bells, smells and whistles and caring less about what happens in the rest of the Church. I dare say it would be a good idea for Novus Ordo Catholics to atend an occasional Tridentine Mass. In this way abuses may be restrained on each side and better relations may be fostered among all Catholics.

148 posted on 09/01/2003 8:00:40 PM PDT by BlackElk (National Committee Against RINOs and CINOs and Ahhhhhnold and Justine Raimondo)
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To: BlackElk
Actually, the really interesting division among the bishops on allowing the Tridentine is that it is more often than not the LIBERAL bishops who have been most generous in allowing the Tridentine and the more conservative bishops who seem to feel that allowing the Tridentine may undermine their authority in some way

Interesting. I didn't know that.

149 posted on 09/01/2003 8:11:07 PM PDT by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter. You'll save a life, and enrich your own!)
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To: sinkspur
Bernardin, Weakland, are two quick examples.
150 posted on 09/01/2003 8:50:41 PM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: ninenot
"The Mass is NOT invalid, and this ain't no petition/referendum society we belong to."

I never said it was invalid. But if it was translated into the English and the Latin suppressed without authorization, and contrary to the published documents of Vat II and the statements of the Pope, why shouldn't people who object to that ask to have it put right.
151 posted on 09/02/2003 12:08:50 AM PDT by dsc
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To: ninenot
Oooops, I went back and looked at what I wrote before my coffee, and I did use the word "invalid."

A classic case of getting my tongue over my eyeteeth and not being able to see what I was saying.

I didn't mean to say "invalid" in the sense that everyone uses that word here. What I meant to say was along the lines of my note above, which betrays the fact that I didn't even remember using the word "invalid" earlier.

Let me try again: why couldn't people who object club together and ask Rome to declare that the Mass should not have been translated into English and the Latin suppressed, and ask for increased use of Latin?
152 posted on 09/02/2003 12:14:45 AM PDT by dsc
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To: dsc
Mostly because the English WAS authorized by the Pope, for better or worse. And as will be pointed out, saying the NO in Latin from beginning to end is a perfectly valid option, so why don't you petition your PASTOR?

This circular argument was observed by Ratzinger, and three Prefects of CDivineWorship for exactly what it was--a runaround--and that's why the 'reform of the reform' is underway.
153 posted on 09/02/2003 6:52:30 AM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: ninenot
"Mostly because the English WAS authorized by the Pope, for better or worse."

The Pope authorized a complete shift to an English Mass, with no consideration for Latin?

"And as will be pointed out, saying the NO in Latin from beginning to end is a perfectly valid option, so why don't you petition your PASTOR?"

Because he told me that we should worry less about some eternal heaven than about creating our own heaven right here on earth, and that it was okay for me to use contraceptives because I already have five children, and gives homilies on the wonders of Buddhism, and loans out books on liberation theology, and...

You get my point, I think.
154 posted on 09/02/2003 9:14:23 AM PDT by dsc
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To: american colleen
declaring that the Roman Catholic Church needed "urgent and continuous reform"

That sounds a lot like constant pot-stirring for the sake of pot-stirring. It is completely antithetical to a Catholic mindset, in which we teach and live the "Faith handed on to us from the Apostoles".

155 posted on 09/02/2003 9:19:00 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: dsc
The Pope authorized a complete shift to an English Mass, with no consideration for Latin?

Yes, within 10 years of the conclusion of VatII, Paul VI signed off on "complete vernacular."

Your pastor (multiplied by thousands) is exactly why Rome will initiate and enforce the 'reform of the reform.'

156 posted on 09/02/2003 10:25:48 AM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: ninenot
"I am sure that with your sense of justice as finely tuned as it is, you do understand the difference between allegation and conviction--right?"

I live in the Boston area and follow this scandal closely, (what choice do I have?); and I haven't heard of many acquittals, mostly convictions, incarcerations, and resignations in disgrace. But as we know, this scandal plagues the entire nation. I've lost track of how many Cardinals, like the powerful Rembert Weakland, have admitted to homosexual affairs and have resigned in humiliation. Or who like Cardinal Law, resigned in disgrace due to his coverups.

I'm not going to hide in denial and make believe it's not what it is, that doesn't work. I'll leave that to you.

Some quotes from Our Lady of LaSalette, (emphasis mine):

"The priests, ministers of my Son, the priests, by their wicked lives, by their irreverence and their impiety in the celebration of the holy mysteries, by their love of money, their love of honors and pleasures, the priests have become cesspools of impurity. Yes, the priests are asking vengeance, and vengeance is hanging over their heads."

"Everywhere there will be extraordinary wonders, as true faith has faded and false light brightens the people. Woe to the Princes of the Church who think only of piling riches to protect their authority and dominate with pride".

"The Vicar of my Son will suffer a great deal because for awhile the Church will yeild to large persecution, a time of darkness and the Church will witness a frightfull crisis".

In the year 1864, Lucifer together with a large number of demons will be loosed from hell, and they will put an end to faith little by little, even in those dedicted to God. They will blind them in such a way, that unless they are blessed with a special grace, these people will take on the spirit of these angels of hell; several religious institutions will lose all faith and will lose many souls".

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist". (note the prophesy says "Rome", and not the Holy Father. This could mean the people, or the Vatican, but not necessarily the Pope).

The Church gave official approval to these messages and secrets of La Sallette. The above statements were published in 1879 by the visionary Melanie Calvet with the Imprimatur of Bishop Zola of Lecce.

There are some, who fearing the accuracy of Mary's dire prophesies of La Sallette, try to diminish the authority of the messages by claiming that the visionary, Melanie Calvet, was "neurotic". This in spite of the fact that Heaven chose her to be the visionary for Mary's warnings, and that the prophesies have come true, including the prediction that Pius IX would be forced to leave Rome by Napoleon III.

157 posted on 09/02/2003 12:03:25 PM PDT by TheCrusader
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To: ninenot
"Further, the Mass. Attorney-General is a politician (in case you didn't know.) Those 1,000 cases are spread out over 60 YEARS--and most of them are allegations which will NEVER be proven."

Attorney General O'Reilly may have been politiczing the length and depth somewhat, but we certainly know that hundreds of children from Boston have gotten convictions or civil awards against predatory priests. O'Reilly is also a Roman Catholic, and probably feels as scandalized and thoroughly disgusted with this horrific chain of events as I do. But again, here you attempt to focus the issue on accuracy of numbers of this massive molestation scandal, which is a diversionary tactic from the real issue. The real issue is that the Church has wandered far astray from tradition and piety, and this is how and why the sex abuse occurred on such a large scale, and moverover, this is why it was covered up for so long and never dealt with from within. The new-age Church mindset is selfish, man-centered and irreverent. There simply was no one around with enough spiritual strength or the orthodox Christian mentality needed to put an end to homosexual priests abusing children.

Even in the midst of this ghastly scandal, we have Novus Ordo priests demanding the right to marry, thumbing their noses at the Holy Father's definitive statements on the matter. We have Bishop Pilla of Cleveland hosting a gay "ministry" website, replete with the homosexual rainbow stripes and pink triangles.

http://www.dioceseofcleveland.org/gayandlesbianfamilyministry/index.html

And just so you know, I take no delight in speaking about this stuff, I love the Catholic Church and it's heartbreaking to see what is taking place from within. Not only with this abuse issue, but with the abuse of the Liturgy and the ditching of sacred Traditions. It all ties in together. You can defend this stuff all you like, and you can live in it too. I'm not going to defend it, accept it, or stick my head in the sand over it like so many are doing as a means to cope. No real "reform" is needed, just a return to orthodoxy and to the true Catholic faith.

158 posted on 09/02/2003 12:46:23 PM PDT by TheCrusader
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To: TheCrusader; ninenot; sinkspur; sandyeggo; ThomasMore; NYer; Marcellinus; Tantumergo; Loyalist; ...
"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist". (note the prophesy says "Rome", and not the Holy Father. This could mean the people, or the Vatican, but not necessarily the Pope).

The Church gave official approval to these messages and secrets of La Sallette. The above statements were published in 1879 by the visionary Melanie Calvet with the Imprimatur of Bishop Zola of Lecce.

As you rpobably do not know, this so-called Secret, source of the infamous "Rome will lose the faith" quote is not approved, but is condemned, dissemination of it is condemned, and all books discussing it are also condemned, being placed on the Index of Prohibited Books. In addition, the so-called "Secret of La Salette" is also condemned and placed on the Index of Prohibited Books. That decree follows:

pp.287/8 The Most Holy Congregation of the Holy Office

ACTS OF THE MOST HOLY CONGREGATION OF THE HOLY OFFICE THE MOST HOLY CONGREGATION OF THE HOLY OFFICE

THE LITTLE WORK IS CONDEMNED: "THE APPARITION OF THE VERY HOLY VIRGIN OF LA SALETTE"
DECREE
Wednesday, 9th May 1923

In a General Session of the Supreme Holy Congregation of the Holy Office, eminent and reverend Lord Cardinals appointed for protecting the faith and morals, proscribed and condemned the little work The Apparition of the Most Holy Virgin on the holy mountain of La Salette, Saturday 19 September 1845. - Simple Reprinting of the entire public text by Mélanie, etc. Society Saint-Augustine, Paris-Rome-Bruges, 1922; ordering those to whom it looks to take care to withdraw examples of the condemned book from the hands of the faithful.

And the same holiday and day of the Most Holy Lord. N. D. by the foresight of divine providence Pope Pius XI, in the customary audience of R. P. D. Assessor of the Holy Office has commissioned the report himself and approved the resolution.

Given at Rome from the Holy Office on 10th May, 1923.

Aloisius Castellanus, S. R. and U. Notary.

Other condemned "Secret of LaSalette" works on the Index:

Apparition (L') de la Très Sainte Vierge de la Salette. Decr. 9 maii 1923.

Combe, Gilbert-Joseph-Emile. Le grand coup avec sa date probable, c'est-à-dire le grand châtiment du monde et le triomphe universel de l'Eglise; étude sur le secret de la Salette, augmentée de la brochure de Mélanie et autres pièces justificatives. Decr. 7 iun. 1901.
-- Le secret de Mélanie, bergère de la Salette, et la crise actuelle. Decr. 12 apr. 1907.

Mariavé, Henri. La leçon de l'hôpital Notre-Dame, d'Ypres; exégèse du secret de la Salette. Decr. S. Off. 12 apr. 1916.

Salette (La). L'apparition de la Très Sainte Vierge. Decr. 9 maii 1923.

For the good of your soul, please stop spreading this false and sinful so-called prophecy. As information, the 1915 decree of the Holy Office prohibiting all discussion of the so-called Secret I quote below is still in effect. You will note that by it you are simply interdicted from any lawful approach to the Sacraments for having broached this garbage in a public forum. I urge you to confession.

The condemnation of the Holy Office follows:

Page 594 Acts of the Apostolic See - Official Brief

THE SUPREME SACRED CONGREGATION OF THE HOLY OFFICE GIVES A DECREE CONCERNING THE COMMONLY CALLED "SECRET OF LA SALETTE."

It has come to the attention of this Supreme Congregation that certain ones are not lacking, even from among the ecclesiastic assemblage who, responses and decisions of this Holy Congregation itself having been disregarded, do proceed to discuss and examine through books, small works and articles edited in periodicals, whether signed or without a name, concerning the so-called Secret of La Salette, its diverse forms and its relevance to present and future times; and, this not only without permission of the Ordinaries, but, also against their ban.

So that these abuses which oppose true piety and greatly wound ecclesiastical authority might be curbed, the same Sacred Congregation orders all the faithful of any region not to discuss or investigate under any pretext, neither through books, or little works or articles, whether signed or unsigned, or in any other way of any kind, about the mentioned subject. Whoever, indeed, violates this precept of the Holy Office, if they are priests, are deprived of all dignity and suspended by the local ordinary from hearing sacramental confessions and from offering Mass: and, if they are lay people, they are not permitted to the sacraments until they repent.

Moreover, let people be subject to the sanctions given both by Pope Leo XIII through the Constitution of the offices and responsibilities against those who publish books dealing with religious things without legitimate permission of superiors and by Urban VIII through the decree "Sanctissimus Dominus Noster" given on 13th March 1625 against those who publish asserted revelations without the permission of ordinaries. However, this decree does not forbid devotion towards the Blessed Virgin under the title of Reconciliatrix commonly of La Salette.

Given at Rome on 21st December, 1915.

Aloisius Castellano, S. R. and U. I. Notary.


159 posted on 09/03/2003 1:15:57 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Weird... regarding the La Sallette "prophesies" I recently went into what I thought was a Catholic bookstore in Quebec. Very, very traditional stuff (Infant of Prague's in real clothing, haven't seen that for years) but something was weird in there... couldn't put my finger on it. I headed out pretty quick and put my almost purchases back on the shelves - didn't want to spend my $$ in there for some reason. I grabbed a free pamphlet on the way out to find out what order ran this bookstore and found "The Order of the Magnificat of the Mother of God" is part of The Catholic Church of the Apostles of the Latter Times.

They're out there!

160 posted on 09/03/2003 1:28:18 PM PDT by american colleen
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