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Topic: Crime/Corruption

Columbine Teacher Witness Talks: Invaladate Official Accounts

NewsHawk, Inc.
6/15/99 John Quinn


SIGHTINGS



COLUMBINE
TEACHER/WITNESS TALKS
Statements Invalidate
Official Accounts

Update: Authorities Question Klebold Suicide
Afters Teacher's Testimony Invalidates Scenario!
 
 
By John A. Quinn <jaq@mcn.org>
© 1999 NewsHawk Inc. All Rights reserved
 
 
Nearly 2 months after the nation's worst school shooting incident, Columbine High School art teacher Patti Nielson has given her first public statements to the Denver Post about her experiences at the school on 4/20/99.
 
The implications of Patti Nielson's statements, although thoroughly edited and perhaps unintentionally shaped by the Post to correlate more closely with the "official" version of the circumstances of the Columbine tragedy, are so tremendously significant and CONTRADICTORY to that official version as to boggle the mind.
 
Her statements thoroughly discredit and invalidate the prevailing disinformation promulgated by investigators about the massacre, revealing many gaping holes and indicating startling, glaring and massive falsehoods in the official version of events.
 
It's safe to say that at this time that nearly everything investigators have told the public regarding the Columbine massacre can be considered worthless, misleading and manipulative disinformation of the first and worst order.
 
Yet very careful attention must be paid to the astounding clues which have come through in her statements to catch the the extraordinary import of what she has reported, as they are juxtaposed alongside this prevailing official version.
 
Though Nielson has not previously made any public statements about her experiences that day, she of course has been questioned by the same investigators KNOWN to have pressured and coerced witnesses into changing their testimony regarding other gunmen AND has heard the same fallacious news reports about the massacre as most other people.
 
Being an obviously intelligent person, she couldn't possibly be unaware that both law enforcement and mass media have settled on the fiction that Harris and Klebold acted alone. She of course would've realized this is in complete contradiction not only of her own experience but every single early news report, scores of statements made by witnesses and victims, and ALL statements made at the time and during the first few days following by law enforcement personnel as well as people like Jefferson County DA Dave Thomas and Colorado Governor Bill Owens--to the effect there was NO WAY Harris and Klebold could have carried out mayhem on such a scale without the assistance of accomplices and/or co-conspirators.
 
In her statements made in the Denver Post interview Patti Nielson seems to be trying to find some way to reconcile these unavoidable discrepancies, yet is clearly unable or unwilling to discount all of what she initially witnessed and experienced. Nielson probably realizes as well there is something quite troubling going on and that she herself could be in danger if she makes too much noise about such discrepancies.
 
Nielson and student Brian Anderson observed and were shot by what she described repeatedly as a MAN outside the school wielding a TEC-9 automatic handgun while they were in a hall around the corner from the library at 11:20 AM. Yet EVERY SINGLE "OFFICIAL" ACCOUNT states that Harris and Klebold first entered the school cafeteria on the LOWER level from outside at this EXACT SAME TIME. There is in fact no doubt that two gunmen who APPEARED to be Harris and Klebold did enter the cafeteria at this time and begin shooting. Teacher Dave Sanders, after yelling a warning to students in the cafeteria, ran upstairs with the gunmen following behind him. Sanders was reportedly mortally wounded by gunfire upstairs, not far from the library.
 
THESE two gunmen were reported to be wearing headphones. This fact MUST be kept in mind as the web of deception, deceit, trickery and disguise regarding the actual events themselves and the subsequent morass of accompanying intentional disinformation, distortion, lies along with understandable honest confusion on the part of many is picked apart and carefully analyzed. As there seems little doubt it was these two who subsequently entered the library where most of the dead and injured were shot and where the two were seen close up by some students who knew one or both by sight, these two most likely really WERE Harris and Klebold.
 
Columbine High School is situated on a gentle slope, which is why there are different entrances to the school from both upper and lower levels. It is completely impossible for the gunman who shot Nielson and Anderson to have been Eric Harris. Furthermore Nielson has made a very significant statement giving additional weight to this tremendously important point as we shall see.
 
Patti Nielson, 35, is quite youthful looking and in fact was mistaken for a student after she got out the school later that day by law enforcement and hospital personnel. She was on duty in the school's north hall as a lunch hour monitor when nearby student Brian Anderson alerted her to the fact that a person outside dressed in black was shooting a gun into the parking lot. As Nielson watched through the glass doors she thought at first this was part of a video production or some kind of prank. She went to tell him to stop because she "thought he was doing a dumb thing" when this MAN turned, grinned and shot her. As she saw the glass doors between them crack from bullets she realized the scenario taking place "was very real."
 
Considering the kick a TEC-9 automatic handgun has, the man was a damn good shot. The fact that the bullets were almost certainly deflected by having passed through a double set of heavy glass doors probably saved both their lives; nonetheless he was such a good marksman that all or nearly all of his few shots still hit his intended targets; Anderson and Nielson both avoided by inches being killed instantly.
 
Ms. Nielson, as noted, is an art teacher who by virtue of her job would have to be a fairly observant person, and she is obviously quite intelligent and well able to express herself. Bearing this in mind she has made a most significant statement about this moment.
 
Nielson said of the gunman she saw: "I thought he was SMALL, but I FOUND OUT LATER he was PRETTY TALL!"
 
What Nielson is clearly indicating here is that during the days after the massacre she became aware that Eric Harris, who apparently bore SOME resemblance to the gunman who shot her and Brian Anderson, was tall. Nielson was NOT personally familiar with Harris and would not have recognized him by sight. The person SHE saw who LOOKED somewhat like Harris was SHORT, yet the "real" Eric Harris--one of two claimed by officials to be the ONLY gunmen that day--was noticeably TALL! What's more Nielson has continually referred to this person NOT as a teenager but as a MAN, both during her 911 call and in all subsequent relevant statements.
 
It's simply inconceivable Patti Nielson would somehow perceive the gunman to be significantly shorter than he actually was. However after being repeatedly deluged with the prevailing media blitz to the effect that ONLY Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold committed the murders that day, it seems Nielson eventually came to the understandable assumption that the person outside the glass doors was Eric Harris because he LOOKED like Eric Harris.
 
Nielson has NEVER said that the man she saw was wearing headphones, as were the two assailants who entered the cafeteria at this same time. NOR did she say this person, still outside the building when first seen, was carrying the dubious "duffle bag" investigators have hypothesized to explain away how the two known shooters supposedly got such vast quantities of explosives, propane tanks, weapons and ammunition into the building. For that matter none of the witnesses in the cafeteria saw either of THOSE two shooters carrying any "duffle bags" either!
 
Considering the fact that teacher Dave Sanders was shot but not killed by one of these two yet then bled to death over the next four hours while law enforcement personnel--now KNOWN to have been in the building from shortly after 12 noon onward--did NOTHING to locate and remove Sanders AND other injured or dying victims, it's likely Sanders and perhaps others were intentionally ALLOWED to die because they ALSO knew too much: because they saw something or someone which could invalidate the official falsehoods later spewed out about the massacre.
 
When examined and considered carefully, these facts simply DO NOT ADD UP. Ms. Nielson has in fact provided a major clue here. The reason there was so much confusion about the number and location of the gunmen involved in the massacre and also how the involvement of other assailants became such a clouded issue is because some of the other assailants either looked like Harris or Klebold OR were MASKED to look like one or the other! There is simply no other explanation!
 
These events involving Nielson, Anderson and a gunman UPSTAIRS all occured at THE SAME TIME Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold had entered the cafeteria DOWNSTAIRS and begun shooting. It should be noted here as well that the "real" Harris and Klebold were NOT especially good shots, as they were not able to hit very many people in the crowded cafeteria!
 
Nielson and Brian Anderson, both now wounded, ran into the school library around the corner. "It was the fastest place to go for help," Nielson said, as she knew the library had a telephone. There was no librarian or other staff personnel in the library when they entered.
 
Patti Nielson ended up in what turned out to be the primary killing room at Columbine that horrifying day; where she heard two gunmen murder ten students and seriously wound nine others. Once again a number of her statements about her time in the library provide valuable clues as to what actually occurred which are clearly at odds with the official distorted versions of events.
 
Moreover, it seems a distinct possibility that the library became a focal point BECAUSE the gunman who shot her and Anderson figured they had entered the room and wanted them finished off as they were living witnesses to the fact that there was at least one gunman OTHER than Harris or Klebold at Columbine, in a different area at the same time!
 
Nielson yelled to the library's occupants that there was a man with a gun shooting people in the school and then called 911: the first person to do so from the school after the shooting broke out from her hiding place behind and beneath the librarian's desk.
 
She recalls hearing gunshots and what she describes as "whooping it up" in the hall outside. She could tell then that a number of people were involved and that at least some were seemingly students or other adolescents. Nielson said "It felt like there were more than two... There was adolescent type shouting. I don't remember exactly what was said, but it was like kids enjoying themselves and having a great time." It MUST be kept in mind that this was during the SAME time period that Harris and Klebold were known to be DOWNSTAIRS in the cafeteria.
 
A police dispatcher answered Nielson's 911 call as the students huddled beneath tables and behind chairs and Patti relayed the details about what was taking place at the school. Nielson told the 911 dispatcher that a man with a gun had shot at her.
 
The woman dispatcher told her law enforcement personnel along with paramedics and firemen were on the way to the school while Nielson began to recite the Lord's Prayer. This indication of Patti's religious beliefs proved to be a very significant point in itself, as will be explained below.
 
"I could hear the shots and the bombs," Nielson recounted. "I felt like we were going to die." She then heard gunmen come in the library and begin shooting so she crawled beneath the desk, leaving the phone off the hook as the 911 dispatcher DISTINCTLY told Patti to keep the line open so that some kind of contact could be retained.
 
The line was subsequently disconnected after a total of about 25 minutes and interestingly Nielson said SHE did NOT hang up. Why the line would EVER be disconnected from the other end in such a situation is truly suspicious; even so this indicates that there is a taped recording at LEAST 25 minutes long of the shooting in the library. How interesting as well that the telephone connection was SUPPOSEDLY inadvertently (certainly INCOMPREHENSIBLY) cut BEFORE any purported suicides by Harris and Klebold took place. Again, it seems unbelievable the connection would have been cut in light of the dispatcher,s EXPLICIT request that the line be kept open!
 
Keep in mind that Nielson had been heard reciting the Lord's Prayer during her 911 call AND that the gunmen asked the girls who were shot there if they believed in God. Keep in mind that Nielson was a youthful-looking 35; so youthful-looking people OFTEN mistook her for a student. Keep in mind that Nielson and Brian Anderson were seen to have run in the direction of the library by the person who shot them; a person who looked FACIALLY like Eric Harris but could NOT have been. The first few minutes of Nielson's call to 911 have been released and it is impossible to ascertain that she was a teacher from this call.
 
When these facts are juxtaposed they strongly suggest that the library became a focal point of the slaughter SPECIFICALLY because Nielson, perceived by many to be a student, was seen by HER assailant to have run towards the library. Nielson made statements during her 911 call indicating she had substantial knowledge of early events in the massacre. She was clearly someone who "believed in God" due to the fact she was heard reciting the Lord's prayer during the 911 call: the shooters asked ONLY FEMALE STUDENTS if they believed in God before killing them.
 
These facts strongly suggest Harris and Klebold were directed via RADIO COMMUNICATIONS heard through their HEADPHONES to enter the library in particular to find and kill a female student known to have entered the room who "believed in God." Why would Harris and Klebold, who supposedly "hated" the school "jocks" more than any other clique or group of students, NOT go into the gym area RIGHT DOWN THE HALL from the library and shoot people there?
 
Nielson couldn't see the shooters, but she could hear them. "They were saying the most disgusting, vile things . . . You could tell they were having fun."
 
Nielson furthermore noted the behavior of Harris and Klebold was so bizarre and whacked out that Nielson had absolutely NO DOUBT the two were extremely high on drugs of some kind and/or alcohol, yet officials have stated repeatedly this was NOT the case.
 
According to Nielson, the killers "were just gross. There were theatrics involved, and they seemed to be acting out some war game. One second they were mean, the next they were laughing. I thought they were on illegal drugs, but I guess the autopsies show they were not, which is also kind of bizarre, because you can't believe anyone in their right minds would do this. They were so crazed." During this time a bomb was also detonated.
 
Nielson has also said she found it incomprehensible that police had not yet arrived as she was well aware the school was only a couple of minutes from the Sheriff's Department headquarters. "I thought the police would show up at any moment. But they didn't," she noted.
 
Incredibly, Patti Nielson's luck held out as the killers, after reportedly firing over 100 shots in roughly 15 minutes, ran out of ammunition and left the room.
 
Whoa! Hold up here!! Ran out of ammunition?!?! Nielson stated that one of the shooters said "Let's get down to the commons," and AFTER the two gunmen left the library she could hear gunshots and bombs detonating downstairs for a long time!
 
And how could this correlate with official stories that the two killed themselves? If they did run out of ammunition, how did they get more? Was this additional ammunition supposedly part of the inconceivably huge quantity of materials these two purportedly brought into the school alone that day, undetected by anyone? Nielson NEVER said the person who shot her and Brian Anderson was carrying ANYTHING AT ALL!
 
At this point most of the surviving students escaped from the library and left the school, obviously NOT worried about being shot by either Klebold or Harris as they were aware the two had run out of ammunition. But Nielson, apparently somewhat in shock, hadn't realized the students had left and she herself remained hidden. Finally after a period of time she came out from under the desk to confront the gruesome sight of the murdered and wounded victims of the rampage. She thought she was the only person alive in the library, though she later found out two of the students still there had not died. Convinced the gunmen might return momentarily she hid herself in a cabinet under a sink. The time was 11:45 AM. and Nielson could still hear shots being fired and bombs detonating.
 
 
Nielson stated that she was eventually told by police that explosive devices consisting partly of propane tanks had been fired at by Harris and Klebold in an attempt to cause a major explosion. Significantly she says police told her the two "were such bad shots they didn't hit the tanks. If they had, everything might have gone up." Yet the SHORT MAN who had fired at her and Brian Anderson initially from outside the glass doors was obviously quite a good shot, as every single shot he had fired through two sets of thick glass doors found it's mark! And it,s NOT very hard for even a bad shot to eventually hit something with either an automatic weapon or a shotgun. The fact Klebold and Harris were OUT OF AMMUNITION could have prevented them from igniting the bomb with gunfire, however.
 
Police also suggest that the two did not get closer and fire because they didn,t want to injure themselves. Yet THIS contradicts investigators' own now-thoroughly-disproved fantasy that the two were on a "suicide mission" and took their own lives just minutes later in the library, which it is now proven they did NOT do! Furthermore Klebold and Harris had shown little regard for their own safety when they REPORTEDLY broke off the natural gas line in the science lab and threw a grenade or pipe bomb into the gas filled room. Not exactly consistent with what police have said about their actions regarding the propane bomb!
 
Yet another unexplained discrepancy is the fact that huge pile of shell casings were reported found down the hall from the library, yet no murders were committed in this area. WHY would Harris and Klebold have just wasted hundreds of rounds of ammunition if they had planned and intended to kill as many people as they possibly could? And WHEN did they supposedly do this?
 
A further serious question is raised by what is now known from Nielson,s testimony. If Klebold and Harris did NOT commit suicide before 12 noon as we have been misled to believe for so long now, WHAT PREVENTED THEM FROM CONTINUING WITH THEIR MURDEROUS RAMPAGE for the next two hours?! Even if out of ammunition they CERTAINLY could have easily detonated the nearly 70 explosives STILL UNUSED in the school in keeping with their reported desire to kill as many people as possible.
 
Every which way we turn here we now find the "official" story of what occurred during the horrendous massacre at Columbine High massively discredited and FULL OF HOLES. It simply cannot be denied at this point that this story is now 100 percent dead.
 
 
Nielson recalled, "I could hear helicopters up above, and I thought they were probably from the TV stations, and I wondered why the SWAT teams weren't there yet. I thought at any time someone would come in and say 'It's all right to come out.' It didn't take that long to get to the school. Then I thought that the gunmen might come in and say it was OK to come out because they were the police, and they'd have me. I was scared to death, and I was thinking about all those students dead in the library."
 
She also feels that some people DID come into the library again due to sounds she heard from her hiding place. Whoever THEY were, they didn't stay long, probably thinking everyone in there was dead.
 
She heard the sound of breaking glass when injured student Patrick Ireland escaped through the window, and later saw two women library aides creeping past. She motioned to the two, one of whom told her they were returning to a broadcast room where they had been hiding; a small room used as a TV studio where student programs were taped and broadcast in the school and locally. Nielson stayed put as she felt the killers might want to make some kind of public statement or announcement and thus might go in the room to broadcast their demands. According to Nielson the time was 1 PM.
 
Some time afterward, there was some noticeable movement in the library but absolutely talking whatsoever, followed by what she says was one very brief blast of gunfire. "I didn't hear any conversation, any yelling, just rat-tat-tat," she said. Nielson has indicated that it was probably nearly 2 PM when this occurred. This would certainly have been the time Harris and Klebold met their end--in one fashion or another.
 
Yet Nielson's testimony regarding this period of time not ONLY conflicts substantially with MANY statements previously made by law enforcement regarding a number of tremendously important points up till this time in the chain of events, it flat out blatantly, incontrovertibly and permanently INVALIDATES what has been stated over and over by law enforcement investigators regarding THIS TIME--when Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris SUPPOSEDLY committed suicide. Furthermore, considering that Nielson's and everyone else's account describes Harris and Klebold as vocalizing loudly and continually their delight in the carnage they were unleashing and otherwise making a SUBSTANTIAL amount of noise, it seems more than a little odd the two would have been so utterly and completely SILENT this time around. In fact it is thoroughly implausible.
 
There is NOTHING in what she has said which proves that it was only Harris and Klebold who entered the library and killed themselves without a word--OR DISPROVES the possibility the two did NOT enter alone and/or under their own volition.
 
In fact what Nielson describes sounds VERY MUCH as though Harris and Klebold were silenced and forcibly brought back to the library and EXECUTED. By OTHERS, that is. (In fact as this report was being written, investigators announced on 6/13/99 that they now question whether Dylan Klebold committed suicide at all! More on this below).
 
By this time, close to 2 PM in the afternoon, SWAT teams had been inside the building for nearly TWO HOURS! In yet another instance of conflict between Nielson,s statements and those made by officials, she recalls having heard gunfire CONTINUALLY, from both near and far, during this entire period. A number of accounts report that police were exchanging gunfire with (some of) the shooters, but police have indicated in their statements that this was NOT the case. Then what was the source and purpose of the gunfire Nielson has reported hearing for so long? On top of this why have law enforcement been so insistent (at least up until the publication of this MASSIVELY conflicting information) that the two KNOWN gunmen had committed suicide by around 12 noon that day? And exactly WHAT were these so-called SWAT team members who undeniably entered the building around 12 noon DOING in there then? Keep in mind there is strong evidence that both FBI and NATO paramilitary units were on the scene here from the word GO!
 
Finally at about 4 PM the library aides she had seen earlier came to her hiding place and told her it was safe to come out; oddly, when she emerged she was handled roughly by SWAT team members, told to put her hands on her head and was frisked.
 
After making her way outside and being driven some distance away by police, Nielson was taken by ambulance to the hospital due to the gunshot wound in her back. "The paramedic who treated me asked me if I believed in God, and I told him I did. He said it was a good thing because only God could have saved me. The bulled had grazed me. An inch more, and I would have been dead." As noted earlier if the marksman shooting at her and Brian Anderson had NOT been firing through double glass doors she very likely would have been killed.
 
 
And we ALL have to thank God that Patti Nielson survived, for her sake and that of her family and friends and ALSO because she has disclosed some astounding and extraordinarily significant information about the true nature of the bloody rampage that day and what was actually going on at Columbine that day.
 
There is virtually no doubt that strenuous efforts were undertaken that day to make sure that Patti Neilson, presumed by her attacker as well as many others to be a student, would be "terminated" due primarily to the fact that she could provide eyewitness testimony blatantly contradicting what has since become widely accepted as fact regarding the Columbine massacre. Nielson could and now did provide such crucial testimony specifically in regard to the TIMING of events transpiring simultaneously in different areas.
 
Nielson's statements show irrefutably that she witnessed and was shot by a third conspirator/accomplice at the SAME TIME as Harris and Klebold were in another part of the school building. Her statements prove once and for all that there WERE other gunmen involved in the massacre that day and the ENTIRE OFFICIAL STORY IS A PACK OF OUTRAGEOUS, WRETCHED UNTRUTHS. The implications of this are truly horrifying IN THE EXTREME!
 
 
UPDATE: Klebold Suicide Now In Question! It is now an absolute certainty that the official story about the events that transpired at Columbine High School on 4/20/99 has been unequivocally proved so riddled with holes that it's been permanently sunk into it's own grave; in the depths of a literal hell where it should rest for all eternity.
 
In addition there is every reason to believe that this extremely significant information revealed in Patti Nielson,s statements and resultant PROOF of conspiracy and coverup concerning the massacre compelled investigators to issue a statement just ONE DAY LATER to the effect that they are NOW DOUBTFUL Dylan Klebold DID in fact commit suicide, due to the location of the bullet wound in his head which ended his life! How STRANGE it took them 2 months to figure that out and make it public, only a day after Nielson's testimony was made public, which completely and irrefutably destroys their story on that issue and many others. Hmmm and double hmmm... You know, it's becoming increasingly clear one just can't believe a single thing investigators have ever said about any and all aspects of this case from the very beginning.
 
 
One final note. If anyone STILL believes the official yarn now unraveling before our eyes about the Columbine High School shootings, there,s a bridge for sale in Brooklyn they might want to buy... once they get their money from the tooth fairy.
 
© 1999 NewsHawk Inc. All Rights Reserved



Calling Michael Rivero! It just gets curiouser and curiouser.


Posted by:
Arator
1 06/14/1999 22:47:31 PDT

To: Arator
I thought about posting this, but could not confirm the real source so I thought I would just get flamed. Let freepers pick through it.
From: Revel
2 06/14/1999 23:01:37 PDT

To: Revel
You do it please....I don't have the heart.
From: david paul
3 06/14/1999 23:05:10 PDT

To: david paul
Paging Mr. Stone. Paging Mr. Oliver Stone. Please call your office immediately"
From: bigsur
4 06/14/1999 23:08:40 PDT

To: Arator
Thought I'd drop in.....wish I hadn't ....heh heh
From: ST.LOUIE1
5 06/14/1999 23:15:17 PDT

To: bigsur
Mr Stone is not taking calls. The quote "Being an obviously intelligent person" regarding a government school teacher puts this screenplay in the "fiction" department and Mr Stone does not produce "fiction.
From: david paul
6 06/14/1999 23:16:04 PDT

To: david paul
"Mr. Lynch. Mr. David Lynch, please call your office immediately."
From: bigsur
7 06/14/1999 23:20:00 PDT

To: bigsur
"Mr. Lynch. Mr. David Lynch, please call your office immediately."

THE OWLS ARE NOT WHAT THEY SEEM

fire walk with me
From: Darth Sidious (the_REAL_phantom_menace_is@thewhitehouse.gov)
8 06/14/1999 23:23:56 PDT


To: Arator
BEWARE of ANY article that relies HEAVILY on CAPITALIZED WORDS AND PHRASES. This is one of the TELLTALE signs of a HOAX, or of some computer-ILLITERATE trying to spice up a DULL article by emphasizing the EMOTIONAL words rather than just letting the FACT SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

8P
From: CzarChasm (Impeach him again!)
9 06/14/1999 23:36:59 PDT

To: Arator
"I didn't hear any conversation, any yelling, just rat-tat-tat," Hmm, from simiautos, huh. Surely, this whole affair hasn't been packaged for public consumption, yet.

Lee Harvy Oswalt may have acted alone and James Earl Ray(I really doubt it) may have acted alone but Klebold and Harris had to have help.
From: JayTee
10 06/14/1999 23:44:45 PDT


To: CzarChasm and All
Yeah, I know. I posted it before I read it. Big mistake! It is kind of weak. Sorry folks.
From: Arator
11 06/14/1999 23:45:57 PDT

To: Arator
I picked up one mistake; the boys had a key duplicated that said do not duplicate this key on it at a local hardeware store. That is obviously how they got that many bombs in.
From: big bad easter bunny
12 06/14/1999 23:54:20 PDT

To: Arator
Library survivor breaks silence Denver Post
From: Plummz (--)
13 06/15/1999 00:56:04 PDT

To: Plummz
amazing
From: flanew
14 06/15/1999 04:51:25 PDT

To: Arator
It was a confused environment. The evidence of a conspiracy is way too shallow to be taken seriously. The students who witnessed the shooting would be better witnesses because they knew the shooters. Find out what they say.
From: ParrotsUp (parrotsup@yahoo.com)
15 06/15/1999 05:10:10 PDT

To: Arator
Considering the fact that teacher Dave Sanders was shot but not killed by one of these two yet then bled to death over the next four hours while law enforcement personnel--now KNOWN to have been in the building from shortly after 12 noon onward--did NOTHING to locate and remove Sanders AND other injured or dying victims, it's likely Sanders and perhaps others were intentionally ALLOWED to die because they ALSO knew too much: because they saw something or someone which could invalidate the official falsehoods later spewed out about the massacre.

This is where these conspiracy theories lose me. The whole Police Department was in on it huh.
From: homer1 (homesmpsn@aol.com)
16 06/15/1999 05:31:03 PDT


To: homer1
That's right. The whole police department, which was apparently under the command of NATO paramilitary units, intentionally let those people die. And the 911 people were in on it, too.

Because, gee, she first thought the shooter was "small" and then found out he was "tall".

That's it!!! That refutes, confounds, contradicts, bolluxes up, and otherwise completely obliterates, destroys, demolishes etc. the whole

government/establishment/mean authority figures/people-who-get-paid-to -investigate-while-I-do-it-on-the-internet/

story.

And notice, the shooter was a great shot, because he hit her, but the glass deflected the bullet, because she was only wounded.

There is nothing, no single human event, which could not be subjected to this kind of fictionalizing.

Of course, that puts me in on it, too, and everyone else on this thread who mouths a doubt.
From: Taliesan
17 06/15/1999 06:07:18 PDT


To: Arator
Why is every one of these conspiracy stories written in the style of The National Enquirer? Is it possible both publications get their writers from the same source?
From: Junior
18 06/15/1999 06:14:54 PDT

To: Taliesan
Something else that made my hoax detector go off. Article claims that Nielson's shooter MUST (sorry, couldn't resist) have been in contact with Harris and Klebold via the headphones. Fine I can handle that no problem. But this shooter knows from taking a potshot at her that she is religous? When she got hit and ran away from the shooter was she yelling scripture? That's when it lost me.
From: Joe Buckeye
19 06/15/1999 06:28:06 PDT

To: Arator
They keep saying the "OFFICIAL" story has been proven to be a lie.

Where is the "official" story posted? Anybody have a link? And who are the "officials" who have the story?
From: Longtime Lurker
20 06/15/1999 06:28:44 PDT


To: Joe Buckeye
The implication is that the 911 operator heard her saying the Lord's Prayer and conveyed the information to the shooters who began looking for victims who believed in God.
From: Reegs
21 06/15/1999 06:34:03 PDT

To: Longtime Lurker and all
Let's not lose faith in the Denver Police. They are working on another tough case. The Ramsey murder case.
From: A+Bert
22 06/15/1999 06:34:29 PDT

To: Longtime Lurker
That's true. From the get-go, didn't the officials believe that others were involved?
From: Reegs
23 06/15/1999 06:35:23 PDT

To: Reegs
I'm sure the other shooters stories will be ignored in the future much like the massive manhunt for John Doe #2.
From: Joe Buckeye
24 06/15/1999 06:40:30 PDT

To: Longtime Lurker
I for one heard an interview with a student immediately after the shooting. This student said that he saw 3 shooters. This kid was believable. If you search the archive you'll find my post witht the kids' name.
From: Registered (registered@aol.com)
25 06/15/1999 06:46:02 PDT

To: all
This makes no sense whatsoever. So she didn't see headphones, and misperceived the shooters height while running for her life as bullets and glass fly all over the place. So what?


From: Rodney King (Rodney King)
26 06/15/1999 06:51:13 PDT

To: Joe Buckeye
That's when it lost me.

There seems to be a couple other inconsistencies. Nielson said she saw the one that shot her smile. How could she have seen that if he was wearing a Harris/Klebold mask? Another is "what she described repeatedly as a MAN outside the school wielding a TEC-9 automatic handgun". Pretty accurate description of a weapon seen from a distance, throught double glass doors under those circumstances, by a lady who no one has claimed was a firearm expert.
From: William Terrell (bluapple@wrldnet.net)
27 06/15/1999 06:53:21 PDT


To: Arator
"The implications of Patti Nielson's statements, although thoroughly edited and perhaps unintentionally shaped by the Post to correlate more closely with the "official" version of the circumstances of the Columbine tragedy, are so tremendously significant and CONTRADICTORY to that official version as to boggle the mind."

Just where has Jack Quinn been for thirty years. The "official" versions of stories have been lies for 35 years. If your mind still boggles at this, you haven't been paying attention. I believe we need to call for all the evidence at Columbine to be released.
From: kermit (ml3127@power-net.net)
28 06/15/1999 07:04:07 PDT


To: Reegs
The implication is that the 911 operator heard her saying the Lord's Prayer and conveyed the information to the shooters who began looking for victims who believed in God.

Can the 911 line be tapped? Is it possible that the contacts outside (if there were indeed some) could tap into the 911 line. They would know she was a Christian. They could also disconnect the phone line? Just asking.
From: Pure Country
29 06/15/1999 07:10:19 PDT


To: Arator
Keep in mind there is strong evidence that both FBI and NATO paramilitary units were on the scene here from the word GO!

NATO?

Those bastards!!!

Any reports of black unmarked helicopters in the area?
From: Yeti
30 06/15/1999 07:18:04 PDT


To: Arator
..........CASSIE BERNALL PRAY FOR US..............
From: ALOHA RONNIE (aloharonnie@webtv.net)
31 06/15/1999 07:20:34 PDT

To: Arator
It's sad indeed that we have such a corrupt government that this conspiracy theory would even be worthy of discussion. NATO representatives were there?????????? Where is the sourcing for that tidbit of info????? The most incredulous details to me about the massacre were 1) How could it possibly have been allowed to go on for hours without any apparent action on the part of law enforcement?? (They wanted to wait until it was over so they wouldn't get hurt??); and 2) From the start, the media said gunners targeted blacks & jocks. We heard this for hours - even days - & when Fox News finally showed pictures of the dead students, only ONE was black!!!!!! Of course the liberals are using the incident to advance their weapons confiscation legistlation, just like they used the OKC bombing incident to demonize the malitia & Right-Wingers in general.
From: calico44
32 06/15/1999 07:34:21 PDT

To: Yeti
Any reports of black unmarked helicopters in the area?

How about a mysterious cigarette-smoking man?
From: steve-b (steveb@NoPinkStuff.Radix.Net)
33 06/15/1999 07:51:43 PDT


To: steve-b
Isn't Michael Rivero a pyrotechnics expert? Where was HE that day?
From: ParrotsUp (parrotsup@yahoo.com)
34 06/15/1999 07:59:43 PDT

To: ALL

Click here for the real story from Denver Post

This story is just made up from the original with lots of theories stuck inside and around the edges. Reading the original gives you a cleaner view from which to make your own desciions.
From: An American! (AnAmerican@hotmail.com)
35 06/15/1999 08:07:01 PDT

To: Revel
Columbine High School art teacher Patti Nielson has given her first public statements to the Denver Post about her experiences at the school on 4/20/99.

You couldn't confirm that Nielson had given an interview to the Denver Post?
From: po'boy (KlintonsKosovoKapers@NATO.com)
36 06/15/1999 08:38:17 PDT


To: Revel
Columbine High School art teacher Patti Nielson has given her first public statements to the Denver Post about her experiences at the school on 4/20/99.

You couldn't confirm that Nielson had given an interview to the Denver Post?
From: po'boy (KlintonsKosovoKapers@NATO.com)
37 06/15/1999 08:40:35 PDT


To: Revel
Columbine High School art teacher Patti Nielson has given her first public statements to the Denver Post about her experiences at the school on 4/20/99.

You couldn't confirm that Nielson had given an interview to the Denver Post?
From: po'boy (KlintonsKosovoKapers@NATO.com)
38 06/15/1999 08:41:03 PDT


To: revel
A triple post, what is going on?
From: po'boy (KlintonsKosovoKapers@NATO.com)
39 06/15/1999 08:56:31 PDT

To: A+Bert
Yes they are a fine group of investigators. I am sure the truth will come out anytime. Of course the truth is whatever vindicates the Columbine law enforcement community's inaction and incompetence.
From: Nov3
40 06/15/1999 09:28:38 PDT

To: A+Bert
Yes they are a fine group of investigators. I am sure the truth will come out anytime. Of course the truth is whatever vindicates the Columbine law enforcement community's inaction and incompetence.
From: Nov3
41 06/15/1999 09:34:02 PDT

To: A+Bert
Yes they are a fine group of investigators. I am sure the truth will come out anytime. Of course the truth is whatever vindicates the Columbine law enforcement community's inaction and incompetence.
From: Nov3
42 06/15/1999 09:34:51 PDT

To: A+Bert
Yes they are a fine group of investigators. I am sure the truth will come out anytime. Of course the truth is whatever vindicates the Columbine law enforcement community's inaction and incompetence.
From: Nov3
43 06/15/1999 09:34:52 PDT

To: Pure Country
The implication is that the 911 operator heard her saying the Lord's Prayer and conveyed the information to the shooters who began looking for victims who believed in God.

Can the 911 line be tapped? Is it possible that the contacts outside (if there were indeed some) could tap into the 911 line. They would know she was a Christian. They could also disconnect the phone line? Just asking.

Good thought. This is really the only part I found intriguing. The story also states that the shooter only asked female students whether they believed in God... again, supposedly because the female teacher (who supposedly witnessed additional shooters) prayed in the 911 call.

But, perhaps there were no males in the library? I have not followed this story closely.

And, it's preposterous to think that however many shooters could really believe early on that they would not only get away... but would be able to lay the entire blame on the two known boys.


From: EdZep (Socialists in Congress? Click on the Zeppelin... Grasshopper)
44 06/15/1999 09:46:16 PDT


To: Pure Country
The implication is that the 911 operator heard her saying the Lord's Prayer and conveyed the information to the shooters who began looking for victims who believed in God.

Can the 911 line be tapped? Is it possible that the contacts outside (if there were indeed some) could tap into the 911 line. They would know she was a Christian. They could also disconnect the phone line? Just asking.

Good thought. This is really the only part I found intriguing. The story also states that the shooter only asked female students whether they believed in God... again, supposedly because the female teacher (who supposedly witnessed additional shooters) prayed in the 911 call.

But, perhaps there were no males in the library? I have not followed this story closely.

And, it's preposterous to think that however many shooters could really believe early on that they would not only get away... but would be able to lay the entire blame on the two known boys.


From: EdZep (Socialists in Congress? Click on the Zeppelin... Grasshopper)
45 06/15/1999 09:51:30 PDT


To: Pure Country
The implication is that the 911 operator heard her saying the Lord's Prayer and conveyed the information to the shooters who began looking for victims who believed in God.

Can the 911 line be tapped? Is it possible that the contacts outside (if there were indeed some) could tap into the 911 line. They would know she was a Christian. They could also disconnect the phone line? Just asking.

Good thought. This is really the only part I found intriguing. The story also states that the shooter only asked female students whether they believed in God... again, supposedly because the female teacher (who supposedly witnessed additional shooters) prayed in the 911 call.

But, perhaps there were no males in the library? I have not followed this story closely.

And, it's preposterous to think that however many shooters could really believe early on that they would not only get away... but would be able to lay the entire blame on the two known boys.


From: EdZep (Socialists in Congress? Click on the Zeppelin... Grasshopper)
46 06/15/1999 09:52:09 PDT


To: Taliesan
And notice, the shooter was a great shot, because he hit her, but the glass deflected the bullet, because she was only wounded.

Architect,

Sounds like another Magic Bullet to me. And the neighborhood is in the foothills of the Flatirons; must be a grassy knoll within range of the school.

We better round up the Conspiracy Busters.

Cordially...
From: Adroit (reedrick@aol.com)
47 06/15/1999 11:19:51 PDT


To: Adroit
Agent A,

This one will feed 'em for years. I can already see the subcultures grouping up:

1. NATO dunnit.

2. Clinton dunnit

3. MK-ULTRA dunnit

4. 911 dunnit.

Then, the inevitable synthesis: Clinton, in the library, with NATO, CIA, and Ginger the 911 operator helping.

At least you, sir, will always an amusing hobby.
From: Taliesan
48 06/15/1999 11:42:31 PDT


To: Adroit
...will always HAVE an amusing hobby. (My earphone screeched for a second).
From: Taliesan
49 06/15/1999 11:47:18 PDT

To: Taliesan
Bumping this to follow warped logic. Wasn't interested in the Columbine conspiracy until the usual suspects showed up to debunk it. Interesting to see misinfo at work. Certainly seems to have a lot of correspondences to Waco. Is there a budding General Clark in Colorado?
From: rubbertramp
50 06/15/1999 13:56:38 PDT

To: rubbertramp & Taliesan
Wasn't interested in the Columbine conspiracy until the usual suspects showed up to debunk it.

Agent T.,

If one of the FReep sleuths can validate a conspiracy by our raspberries, we'd better refer the matter to the Wet Works Division.

Like I said, r-tramp, "be very afraid." ;-)

Cordially...
From: Adroit (reedrick@aol.com)
51 06/15/1999 14:03:25 PDT


To: rubbertramp
Wasn't interested in the Columbine conspiracy until the usual suspects showed up to debunk it.

r-tramp,

Regarding twisted logic:

My tomato plants are struggling this year. But I hereby deny and debunk the existence of a Tomato Conspiracy. Which means, by your principle, you are obligated to investigate.

Now that's a twist.
From: Taliesan
52 06/15/1999 21:00:30 PDT


To: Arator

Every suspicious case has one circumstance which can not be explained as a normal screw up or even a believable coincidence. In the Foster case, it's the fact that three sets of photographs (the polaroid, the 35 mm, and the X-rays) just happened to have been completely unusable. One set being ruined is believable, two being useless is quite a screw up, but three sets? That passes into the realm of conspiracy.

And now they ask us to believe that all those trained SWAT commandos and the police personnel of probably every community in the Denver metropolitan area, plus the FBI and the ATF, could not enter a building with hundreds of doors and windows until four hours after two untrained high school students had begun shooting with their limited arsenal, that the macho tough guys could not get in until every last student was dead?

To believe that, one would have to be even nuttier than the most wild-eyed conspiracy wackos.

From: giotto
53 06/15/1999 22:45:17 PDT


To: ParrotsUp
I think that the opening premise, if the teacher thought the shooter was short, it couldn't have been Harris because he was tall, is not correct. I am pretty sure that Harris was not tall and Kebold was very tall. Besides, the teacher seems to have been understandably hysterical.
From: zevonfan (zevonfan@silicom.com.)
54 06/15/1999 23:11:12 PDT

To: Taliesan
Check the Y2K chip in your hydroponic equipment.

Do you and Adroit play good cop, bad cop? Adroit is the charmer; and you are the nasty?
From: rubbertramp
55 06/16/1999 04:48:14 PDT


To: rubbertramp
Nasty? Not my intent. Clearly it's time for a kinder, gentler Taliesan.
From: Taliesan
56 06/16/1999 09:05:29 PDT

To: rubbertramp
Oh, and thanks for the chip tip. That straightened the garden right up. Apparently things just foul up sometimes, without malice, or handlers.
From: Taliesan
57 06/16/1999 09:10:04 PDT

To: Arator

Once again we are back to the AP story of a man, identified as a shooter by a student, released by the police before any investigation began.

Each new piece of evidence that leaks out leads one more and more to suspect that this incident was manufactured for the express purpose of horrifying the public into acceptance of draconian anti-gun legislation.

Let's face it, the NRA and gun rights people had made great progress, and crime was dropping in the areas that enacted conceal carry laws. The Australian gun ban triggered a massive crimne increase, as did the gun bans in Jamaica and Great Britain.

The anti-gun crowd had lost the claim that banning guns reduced crime. This administration, bought and paid for by drug runners, needed something dramatic to turn the tide against guns. I can almost hear the phone calls to the White House from people like Jorge Cabreras. "Our customers are being killed out there. They are afraid to get the money for our product. Revenues are down. If you don't do something to keep our people safe, there will be less money for your next campaign."

So, this same government that bombs foreigh nations just for a media event, may have created a media event right here to horrify Americans into supporting laws mandating trigger locks, even though common sense says that when a druggie in withdrawel breaks int your home, he's not going to wait while you get your keys.

Anti-gun = pro-crime, and the criminals will commit criminal acts to disarm you and make you a target.
From: Michael Rivero (rivero@accessone.com)
58 06/16/1999 09:25:16 PDT


To: Taliesan
Be sure to check out www.rightpolitics.net. It's now open for business.

Email me if you need more info.
From: quidnunc (quidnunc@nvsn.com)
59 06/16/1999 11:21:21 PDT


To: rubbertramp
Adroit is the charmer...

r-tramp,

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And furthermore, ????????????

Cordially...
From: Adroit (reedrick@aol.com)
60 06/16/1999 13:12:19 PDT


To: Adroit
www.rightpolitics.net

Pass it on.
From: quidnunc (quidnunc@nvsn.com)
61 06/16/1999 13:15:45 PDT


To: quidnunc
Pass it on.

Agent Q,

Registered, and passed it on to our kook-busting latinate lawyer.

Any idea how the sysop is going to keep the kookroaches from overrunning the site?

Cordially...
From: Adroit (reedrick@aol.com)
62 06/16/1999 13:38:35 PDT


To: Arator
I have a few remarks about this red hot issue. First, it is first and foremost in the public eye due to the Columbine massacre. I thoroughly believe the following items about Columbine, whether true or untrue we may never know: First: Kleybold and Harris had help obtaining the weapons and making the bombs. Almost no one disputes this. (Someone with a lot of dough.) How could someone lace an entire school with bombs and other weapons and not a single soul see anything ahead of time? Second: Kleybold and Harris carried out the attack, at least the majority of it. Third: Kleybold and Harris may not have had intentions of committing suicide. Fourth: Several witnesses stated during and immediately after the shootings that there was a third gunman. These claims were quickly dismissed by the media and later dismissed by the police, at least publically. Fifth: When the police arrived, only two people had been killed. Eleven more were killed as the SWAT teams loafed around for some reason. Sixth: The third gunman was there to ensure Kleybold and Harris did not leave the building alive. The gunshot wound to Kleybold was on the left temple, he was right handed. This massacre was (I believe) carried out in order to shock the American people into okaying more gun laws. However the intent of these gun laws is for them to fail, resulting in the confiscation of all firearms in America. This is a requirement of all nations which enter the New World Order (note Europe). The purpose of the Second Amendment is to ensure that the people have adequete individual protection from an imperialist government. To the NWOites, the 2nd Amendment is one of their greatest obstacles.
From: flair2000 (he316@msn.com)
63 06/16/1999 13:44:38 PDT

To: Michael Rivero
Once again we are back to the AP story of a man, identified as a shooter by a student, released by the police before any investigation began.

They questioned him. That's an investigation.
From: Taliesan
64 06/16/1999 13:44:39 PDT


To: Adroit
"Any idea how the sysop is going to keep the kookroaches from overrunning the site?"

How's about fundraising projects? Lots of 'em. Constantly.

If it involves having to drag out a checkbook, they generally stay away in droves.
From: flem_snopes
65 06/16/1999 14:57:24 PDT

To: flem_snopes
If it involves having to drag out a checkbook, they generally stay away in droves.

f_s,

Not that they're cheap, you see. It's just that they don't keep bank accounts and such. No sense leaving a paper trail the gummint can follow to their backwoods aeries.

Cordially...
From: Adroit (reedrick@aol.com)
66 06/16/1999 15:05:42 PDT


To: Taliesan
Well let's just agree that you say 'tomato' and I say 'tomahto'.;o)
From: rubbertramp
67 06/16/1999 16:05:18 PDT

To: flair2000
I think you are on the right track. What grabs me about this whole account is the "Lord's Prayer". It is a detail which rings true. Someone wouldn't make that up. It could have been how the gunmen identified someone who had witnessed something they weren't supposed to.
From: rubbertramp
68 06/16/1999 16:12:04 PDT

To: Taliesan
"My tomato plants are struggling this year."

Water 'em with dilute Viagra once a week. Even down in the basement where you work and are growing them, it should work.
From: NDCORUP
69 06/16/1999 19:19:22 PDT


To: NDCORUP
Basement? I got a window for orchestrating El Nino.
From: Taliesan
70 06/17/1999 05:56:22 PDT

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