The Human Price Of Rabin's Truth(&Clinton&JFK&Foster&Menna) WOW!!! [Free Republic]

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My work is a burden. I know too much. I'm paying a price now and it can only get costlier. Three and a half years ago I wrote about Israel from two perspectives: the very positive, glorifying my country's achievements in various trade magazines read mostly by gentiles, and the very negative: exposing Israeli political corruption in my own publication Inside Israel, read mostly by Jews. The idea was to clean up our political system so I would only have to write about our achievements.

Then in November, 1995 Yitzhak Rabin was murdered and I quickly gathered proof that our government told not a word of truth about the real circumstances of his demise. And for this I was vilified in the Israeli media, and twice, ugly protests disrupted my lectures. My family was forced to read front page newspaper accounts of my fictional life: I was a Holocaust denier, a member of organized crime, a follower of Rabbi Kahane (THE number one crime of the Israeli media), and worse.

But I could almost count myself lucky. My partner in Inside Israel, Joel Bainerman, flew to Washington in 1992 to research his book on the Bush era, Crimes Of A President. Before anyone else, he reported on the Clinton/Bush cocaine ring run through the airport at Mena, Arkansas. He was the first to reveal the murder of Amiram Nir, a senior advisor to Shimon Peres and a major player in Iran Contra. He blew the lid off the involvement of Peres and Rabin in all that was Iran Contra: arms for hostages, drugs for money for guns for control.

While in Washington an "admirer" gave him a gift: a necktie. He even fit it around his neck. That very night, Joel's neck swelled so frighteningly that he called his wife to tell her something was wrong. Four months later he had cancer in the glands of his neck which spread throughout the lymphatic system.

Adir Zik is my compatriot in exposing the Rabin conspiracy. Because of his newspaper column and radio show, he reaches far more people than I do. He, more than anyone else, exposed the involvement of Israel's Secret Service, the Shabak, in the murder. Two months ago he called me to say throat cancer was discovered. He would have to undergo immediate surgery. I only hope that he makes the same kind of recovery Joel did.

There are dead victims of Rabin, and there are innocent people wallowing in prison. Arnold and Marilyn Cytryn are two American Israelis who resemble, as Joel noted, "My uncle and aunt." They came to Israel to live free lives as proud Jews and Israelis. Then in 1995 their son Shmuel was arrested and placed in solitary confinement by the Shabak for over four months. To this day he doesn't know the charges against him. We now understand why he went through the torture. In September, two months before the Rabin assassination, he publicly identified the provocateur Avishai Raviv as a Shabak plant. This could not be tolerated, because in November, Raviv played a central role in Rabin's murder, whether witting or not.

So two nice retired Jewish folks, had to undergo an agony few of us can begin to fathom: wondering if their son would survive prison isolation for no crime whatsoever. His "crime" was fingering a murderous snitch.

But he was luckier than one David Newman, who made the fatal error of befriending Raviv. Within a week of Rabin's murder he was dead, a suicide they said. He was the only son of a widow, I'm informed, totally broken by her loss and just too worn down to pursue her suspicions of foul play.

As for me, here I am writing this in good health. I merely have to suffer harassment. I was interviewed by three American radio programs today. My line was cut off in the middle of all three. If anyone tells me it was all a coincidence, I'll walk away. I've had it hearing that statistical impossibility is explainable by coincidence.

For five years my family and I lived in relative tranquility in a place called Bet Shemesh. Then a pervert built a house behind us where there shouldn't have been a house. Every morning at the crack of dawn he would wake us all with the barking of his dogs. No appeal to him would stop the noise. Then he devoted his life to isolating us from our neighbors. Then we were victimized by vandalism, theft, threats and soon police complaints. We are certain he was planted to harass us and the tension did its job on my family in ways that could have broken us up at any time.

So we moved and it turns out our new neighbors are listening at our windows, photographing us, spreading rumors etc. etc. And we just don't know why. I'm no saint, and am a product of America circa late Sixties. The neighbors appear to be snooping to find a moment when they can publicly humilate me and my family. My wife is at a loss to explain why we have been putting up with exactly the same neighborly mischief for four straight years.

And I'm not even mentioning the opened and lost mail, the passport that couldn't be issued, the men with cellular phones standing in the street outside our home at 3 AM, friends who keep their distance because of perceived danger, the sudden difficulty in knowing who to trust...And worst of all, the feeling that the stakes could be raised at any time.

Because I have established a reputation, as Haaretz wrote on its front page recently, as "the leading researcher of the Rabin assassination conspiracy theory," people, at great risk to themselves put powerful documentation in my hands. In the past two weeks I have received the army records of Rabin's bodyguard Yoram Rubin, his driver on the night of the murder, Menachem Damti and of the State Pathologist who lied about Rabin's wounds, Dr. Yehuda Hiss. And I received a copy of Dr. Hiss's banned report, with all its lies and accidental, shocking truth intact within. When added to my hundreds of pages of police reports, hospital records, court protocols, private testimonies, I have built an airtight case that the convicted assassin did not do the deed.

The problem is I know who did. In February 1996, journalist Yehoshua Meiri told me who did it and why. I arranged to have his claims videotaped. So certain was he of his information, that he tracked Joel down in England to let him know the facts. Meiri insisted that Peres organized the murder with the connivance of the French government and secret services. He said the Americans and British were furious and unless Peres abandoned his French allies "all Hell would break out here." Which is just what happened as Israel was bled by suicide bombers within a week.

Yet, for a long while I followed the wrong trail, to America. The evidence I had gathered proved Rabin was rebelling against his American controllers during the last two months of his life and that Ehud Barak had made sinister alliances with the same gang at the Council For Foreign Relations that was becoming progressively less satisfied with Rabin's independence. It looked like a motive for murder, but I had to admit that new information pointed to France.

A French journalist, Pierre Lurcat, reminded readers in his Jewish student paper, that President Mitterand had once faked his own assassination in a scandal that haunted him his whole career called the Observatoire Affair. The sympathy which arose from the phoney murder attempt vaulted Mitterand's career to the top. Lurcat claimed Peres and Mitterand discussed how to do the same thing for Rabin to save his failing peace process with the PLO. Pierre told me, "I was only using my logic, I had no solid evidence. Then the authorities came down so hard on me and the newspaper that I surmised I got it right. I was a law student at the time, I'm an attorney now, and the French media turned me into a lunatic."

Then I was reminded that Peres ally, the secretive French media mogul, Jean Frydman financed the rally where Rabin was murdered. And that Shabak chief Carmi Gillon spent the night of the assassination in Paris. And then there was that bizarre incident in early 1996 when Jacques Chirac went bananas in the Old City of Jerusalem. Peres had sent Yoram Rubin, everybody's prime suspect as Rabin's downfall, to guard Chirac. His French bodyguards informed him who he was and Chirac ran to the nearest reporters nearly crying that he did not need Israeli bodyguards. That he'd feel safer with Arab guards protecting him.

People ask me, "Why are you still alive?" more than "How are you?" Until now I've answered, "Because I know who did it and I'm not saying." Well, now I'm saying it. I'm on the trail to France. If I'm on a hit list, it won't make a difference anymore. It's murderama time in this world.

As a result of my Rabin work gaining credibility in certain informed circles, I am sent the lowdown on other political murders. For four years now the world has slept while William Colby decided to abandon his hot dinner and take a final canoe ride, while Vince Foster chose to crawl on his back so his suit would fill up with carpet fibers and then shoot himself in a park, while Sonny Bono hit a tree and his body lay unnoticed on a busy ski trail for three hours, while the only FBI agents to die in Waco were four former Clinton bodyguards, while Ron Brown felt it would be a swell idea to shoot himself in the head then land in Bosnia for dramatic effect, while a surviving stewardess and air traffic controller decided to follow him to the great beyond a few hours later, while French police just couldn't locate that sneaky Fiat Uno which waited for Diana's car in the tunnel, while a Clinton intern died in a Starbucks holdup where no money was taken, while the President felt impelled to rush back from a holiday to Washington on the night his pretty adviser to the deaf met her demise, and on and and on. Clearly, it is a rather fatal idea to get to know the President from too close up.

When his bloodlust wasn't satisfied at home, he helped conjure up some excuses abroad. The hapless bombing of a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan just didn't do it for him, so a futile exercise against Iraq settled him down for a few days. But the thirst to kill just kept coming back to its master, so a phoney humanitarian war in Kosovo helped calm the nerves. Next on his list is Israel, and my leaders will do all they can to help him out.

There is murder in the air in Israel. Former Interior Minister Arieh Deri suffered a loss a while back, when after his wife's adoptive mother refused to sign an affadavit testifying that she gave him all the money he was accused of stealing from the Israeli Treasury, she was run over by an employee of one of his cronies. Rabin's Deputy Defence Minister Motta Gur committed suicide because of his cancer. Only his doctor told reporters his cancer was cured. Two of Rabin's bodyguards also committed suicide. One of them Yoav Kuriel, did so by shooting himself in the chest seven times. A very persistent suicide.

And I found this out because friends of the person who prepared his body for burial contacted me. To prove the story was accurate, I was faxed Kuriel's death certificates. He died of nothing and no one identified his body. Now did I really need to know this? All I intended to do was investigate the murder of one human prime minister and before I knew it, I was tracking down serial killers. Jewish serial killers. In my country. One may be living next door to me.

During the Yom Kippur War, I looked at photos of Israeli prisoners of war in American news magazines and became a Zionist. I vowed to do my part for my people. I moved to Israel, joined the army, fought in a war and defended my country. And now I'm gathering indisputable, unarguable proof that the leaders of the country I risked my life for are tangled up in murder, either promulgating it, or covering it up.

So what's an honest Israeli journalist supposed to do? Most Jews would say, cover it up like everyone else. If you don't, you will endanger Israel's security. That may be true in the very short term, but over time we won't outlast the moral rot. The behaviour of my leaders has nothing whatsoever to do with Judaism or Zionism as the Israeli people understand it. They have to be exposed and purged. Then the good Jews will set things right. That is precisely the view of hundreds of thousands of my fellow Israelis and their support, I receive dozens of letters of encouragement on a good day, is why I have carried on this far.

So now what do we do about the information coming out on the explosion of JFK Jr.'s plane? The day it happened I wrote that JFK Jr. was doing more than any other American media figure to get to the bottom of the Rabin assassination truth. I reminded readers that his magazine George ran a 13 page expose of the Shabak's involvement in the assassination. I suggested that this was a brave but risky stand.

Then came the tidal wave of data. The FBI Preliminary Report confirming the bomb on the plane and noting the type of explosive was used by certain foreign intelligence services. This was followed by Catherine Crier of Fox TV's The Crier Report, announcing that JFK Jr. was about to meet high ranking Mossad officers to get the full story on the Rabin assassination. Then Maariv ran an interview with JFK's chaufeur, who happens to be Israeli. Then people started noting that Barak was in Washington at the time of Kennedy's finale in life.

So radio shows from America starting calling asking me to investigate a possible Mossad hit. They observe that the chaufeur was in a position to plant a bomb in JFK Jr.'s luggage... That Barak had an interest in preventing Kennedy from finding out the truth of Rabin's murder. And on and on and deeper and deeper.

Will I pursue this line? Is this beyond my intention of reforming my nation and finally reaching the ugly point of wrecking it...Of feeding every anti-semite's wildest fantasies...Of justifying every anti-Zionist diatribe ever written...Of handing our Arab enemies the very weapon they've been seeking to crush us into the sand???????

I've always believed that truth is good by its nature and a lie is bad by its. I've suffered losses by pursuing one truth: what really happened to Yitzhak Rabin on Nov.4/95. I cannot make the same living from my conventional business writing because of Rabin. My family life is much tenser than it would have been without Rabin. A certain segment of Jewry despises me for what I am doing to their view of Rabin's saintliness.

But the gains are real as well. I have the admiration of the most dedicated Zionists. I enjoy status and respect from the Israelis I most respect. And they always turn out when I lecture. And they take, sometimes, scary risks to find vital documents for me. And there are more and more people like them every day. I can't let these people down.

And I think I will if I pursue the Kennedy line. If the Crier report is right, and if the FBI Preliminary Report isn't fraudulent, then suspicion is going to be raised against Israel. My nation will be put in grave danger by our idiotic leaders and their intelligence services. And this time, I don't want to know anything about it.

The author's most recent three books, Traitors And Carpetbaggers In The Promised Land, Israel Betrayed and Who Murdered Yitzhak Rabin are available from the Zionist Book Club. Write perkins@netvision.net.il In America call toll free 1 877 RABINY

The Hebrew and Russian editions of Who Murdered Yitzhak Rabin are available from Gefen Books write isragefe@netmedia.net.il Call 02 5380247

And I don't know anything about Rabin in regards to a potential conspiracy to assassinate him. What part did Bibi supposedly have in all of this?

I have to admit also that I had no idea about a Rabin conspiracy. But this guy just opened my mind to the possibility. And in these days anything is possible. You have to admit this guy does not sound like an amateur. And he fits the profile modern harassed whistle blowers. It is a scarey time we live in.

I had a transcript of a Clinton/Chirac press conference bookmarked for a long time but recently deleted it. I'm going to see if I can find it on the web again.

My second remark concerns a subject which President Clinton has not mentioned, but that we have talked about at some time, and that for me it's the big problem, for the big issue for the beginning of the next century, and that is what President Clinton raised himself about a couple of months ago, in a talk he gave -- the question of humanizing globalization, making globalization more human. Everyone understands that globalization is both inevitable and also it bears progress, and this can be understood every day, ever more. And this is something that must be -- a process that must be encouraged. It's a good thing.

But everyone I think can also understand that there can be social consequences of this and it's really our job to control them. And it's one of the big challenges I think of this society in the years to come. And for we, the Europeans, it was really very gratifying to hear a President of the United States put this issue to the fore of matters that the world has to contend with. And I entirely agree with what he has said. And it's also a question that we have talked about among ourselves.

Indeed what a read. Many parallels to the Kennedy assassination.
And a reminder to those investigating the Bush-Clinton-Mena connections, beware of admirers bearing gifts.

For a moment I thought those were your thoughts and I was thinkin Hey are we in trouble here on FR. Then I figured out it was the press conference you were talking about. I am afraid my friend that it is all way bigger than we realise.

This guy does do a huge amount of documentation of names and dates and events for sure. I love the way he puts it all together. If its not the truth then it would make one heck of a feature movie. Gotta go for now. Will check back later.

lol...oops, sorry.
I should have posted the source on the top and the name Chirac ;>)

I think I saw the end of this once, they ride into one of the great lakes smoking cigars with the sun setting behind them.

I must remind everyone of the obvious: At the heart of this international web of corruption Chamash describes is the family Bush.

Handing Dubya the GOP nomination on a platter would be like tying a cancer-causing necktie around the throat of American conservatism. We must not walk, but run from Dubya, if we are ever going to end this dark era that began when the Gipper's mind and life force started to fade in the late Eighties and the Bushes and the Clintons gained global power. Only we Americans can end this nightmare, not only for ourselves but for the rest of the world as well. Let us resolve to do it NOW while we still may.

Amen to that. We peons are like good little Germans who pay our taxes (Israeli taxpayers too) so that the secret intelligence organizations can use their personnel and black budgets to manipulate the populace as they see fit. And now the country is being manipulated again, to give us peons the illusion that we have some kind of control of what goes on at the top.
Welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss.

Rabin was in Dallas (according to Leah Rabin) on Nov. 22, 1963. What goes around, comes around.

Cancer - what a curious way to silence whistle blower's! I admit the intimidation factor may work on the next whistleblower down the line, but consider that the person with cancer now "has nothing left to lose" and considerable time left to talk. "Illogical" as my friend Spock would say.

Bibi's not mentioned at all. Peres is mentioned and he succeeded Rabin as head of the Labor Party. Rabin's assassination almost sank Bibi's election, because the bloody media blamed the right for the assassination. Barak is mentioned and guess who just won the election to Prime Minister?

In assassination, ask cui bono? Who benefits? Peres and Barak have both benefitted. Bibi barely won election and lost this time around and he's out of politics. Needless to say, Bibi didn't benefit.

To me, this story illustrates the power of the greatest drug addiction and what that addiction leads people to do. That addiction is the addiction to power and it leads people to committ murder, the worst crime in my book and cover up the crime of murder. This addiction affects every nationality, Israeli, American and French and that's just this one article.

Cindy Adams of the NY Post was the one who first, albeit unwittingly, may have let the cat out of the bag... Take care David Heymann and Ms Adams.

What else, other than a potential national security issue would have motivated/justified a 5-day search and recovery marathon at a level of cash outllay and deployment of human resources never before witnessed in American history?

I suggest that the GEORGE file notes on JFK Jr's Rabin assassination research be moved to a secure location...

If these 'leaks' keep on coming, the "Rabin Assassination" issue of GEORGE magazine will become a collector's item!

In the Feb. 5, 1996 issue of the New American, it was reported that the so called Right Wing Extremist who incited Yigal Amir to assassinate Yitzhak Rabin was actually an informant working for Israel's General Security Service.

Not until Nov. 7, 1977 was this fact publicly confirmed, when Carmi Gillon who headed the GSS at the time of the assassination admitted that Raviv had been on the payroll for eight years as an asset placed amidst Israel's "radical right."

While Gillon played down the betrayal of his asset, Raviv, he offered no protest to the ongoing efforts to portray Prime Minister Netanyahu as am "ideational co-conspirator" in Rabin's death. Radical leftists are demanding Netanyahu's resignation.

I am sure I have read somewhere that Clinton said those who agree with Timothy McVeigh about Waco and don't trust the government are "ideational co-conspirators." Anyone who views Waco: The Rules of Engagement will become an automatic co-conspirator in the OKC bombing because he/she is sure to convinced that the government can't be trusted.

Does not matter,details in this article Very important and related to CURRENT events

Some may remember about a year ago, an attempted assassination of someone using an aerosol in the ear to cause a heart attack. Details missing in my memory.

I heard an interview with Barry Chamish on the American Freedom Network the other day and he gave his web site URL ...below...

For source of what the criminal prez is saying, go to the White House and click on the "Virtual Library," then do a search for the word "globalization" or any other word that may trigger the NWO talk.

If anyone is interested in checking their furniture and gift clothing, here are some web sites offering some detectors:

"Clearly, it is a rather fatal idea to get to know the President from too close up."

Funny you should mention Monica Lewinsky. Wasn't her favorite gift a tie? Maybe it was an inside joke.

I knew the story of the alleged Mossad link to the John-John crash before Chamish did, as I was one who directed my source to contact Chamish. So, yes, I knew the script from the get-go---but waited to see what transpired. And the script was to pin it on the Mossad [by the NWO Gang, whether the Mossad did it or not.] Why? To get American opinion to side against the Israelis if/when [[more likely 'when' not 'if' the NWO decides to take down Israel]]

[As a sidenote, recollect it was Chamish who wrote, "Kosovo: Last Stop Before Jerusalem". In his own words he believed the NWO Gang was coming after Israel next; he has a short memory.]

So was the Mossad involved in the J-J crash? Maybe yes, but maybe not. Who's to say? But I would suggest I could have done better. The Mossad as perp, and its associated coverup unraveling so rapidly, leaves me with a certain amount of skepticism, doncha know.

Several have reproduced the radar images on the day in question which shows a disturbance pattern arising from the New York area in a direct line up to New England. I doubt the Mossad controls that facility. Rivero suggests this may have been a test. I don't know that I would argue the point with him. Everyone on the same page here?

At any rate, the link is slow so here is the url: http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/flashradar/JFK.htm

When you do reach the site, I might suggest printing a copy as I have done as there's no guarantee links stay good forever.

I think you are too late. I just tried the link and only got a "this page has expired" notice.

The Mossad angle may be true, but that does not rule out the NWO folks playing a double game -- allowing Israel to do the dirty work in ridding themselves and Israel of a mutual threat, while at the same time setting Israel up to take the fall.

You've sort of said it in reverse, but in essense, yes, your thesis is possibly correct.

On the other hand, the NWO cannot publicly expose the Mossad's involvement without discussing motive, and that would open up the whole Rabin/Peres/Chirac/Clinton/Bush NWO can-of-worms that Chamish describes. So maybe they'll continue the cover up and get Israel through other means.

Funny, Nikola Tesla set up his tower to transmit wireless electricity on Long Island. Isn't there a super atom collider on Long Island that physicists are nervous about? What is it with Long Island? Metalbird, could you e-mail me? You don't have an address listed but I wanted to correspond privately about something.

It depends on what 'motive' is exposed---does it not?--- several of which have already been floated.

You ever wonder why the Clintons suddenly have such an interest in NY ? Why not some other state ? There may be something strategic about it. Maybe some kind of future power base involving the UN and wallstreet ? All I know is that there must be some huge reason for them picking NY.

There are reportedly a couple of classified physics labs in the Long Island area; their names off the top slip me. Doubtless they are under a pile of debris around here somewhere [visualize "Consiracy Theory"].

"Some may remember about a year ago, an attempted assassination of someone using an aerosol in the ear to cause a heart attack. Details missing in my memory."

It doesn't come aerosol packaged anymore. Apparently, the Clinton administration, especially AlGore, concluded that the gaseous suspension of liquid particles in the air would damage the ozone. The murders are of no concern, but the ozone, well....

No, it was a matter of convenience, Hillary running in N.Y., in that Moynihan was retiring [and/or was not that difficult to budge from his senate seat]. I say this for the reason that'Hill' originally was going to run for the senate from California in Boxer's seat, but Boxer wouldn't go for it; stepping aside that is--which presented a problem since I believe Boxer's daughter is married to Hillary's brother [someone correct me here on this last if it might not be on the mark].

You've made an excellent point, Arator...Israel's Mossad has served as the NWO's enforcer in many places around the world (Africa, Central/South America, Burma, et c.) where the Israeli people haven't the remotest National Interest!!

Three Observations:
1. Israel is the only First-World Nation besides the U.S. which has a huge, unassimilable Third-World population on its border.
2. The New World Order has declared its unequivocal hostility to "Ethnically-Based" nations--in fact the de Facto Global Regime (NEW WORLD ORDER) has trumpeted its antagonism to the "obsolete idea" of the Nation State itself--whether America's Sovereign Constitutional Republic OR a secure, autonomous Israel. How soon will the NWO whip up anti-Zionist Hate Propaganda and dole out the grisly Serbian treatment to valiant Israel?
3. The same international Jewish Organizations which have diligently pursued Switzerland and German Corporations for Holocaust Reparations have willfully overlooked the Millions of Dollars in unlamented Blood Money that enriched the Plutocratic-Parasitic BUSH Dynasty...has a deal been cut? Who will double-cross whom first?

Not anything in particular, but I like to bounce things around through e-mail with knowledgable people. E-mail is a valuable resource.I've admired your postings and insight in the past and I'd like to include you in my list of "penpals". When a big story breaks,nothing compares to communicating with some knowlegable world-wise friends--communication that's not always appreciated on a public forum. I write for a large Internet publication occasionally and I like to correspond with people who can help develop ideas.

[I never got "Expired", as you. After you told me about it, I tried again and got 'timed out'.]

I haven't heard a word yet about Plum Island off the North fork of Long Island. Completely off limits to the public, with secret labs there. Anything could be there, no one knows outside the inner circles of power.

I remember a rumor that Kissinger personally warned Rabin to delay his flight out of NY, and that Rabin's plane, 5 minutes behind TWA800, was the original target of the TWA800 attack. Again, a massive search effort within a water area protected from the ocean currents. Every whistle blower, (Mr. and Mrs. Sanders, the FBI agent who gave the seat sample) have been dealt with very harshly.
Could anyone explain how this information is useful?

The FBI Preliminary Report (on the JFK, Jr. crash) confirming the bomb on the plane and noting the type of explosive was used by certain foreign intelligence services.

Did I miss something here? What FBI Preliminary Report...? Has it been released?

And how many in either country have a clue anyway that sometimes one protects their respective national interests, but more often than not doesn't; rather, it protects the NWO's interests; and when there's free time, they look out for their own personal interests?

Which information, specifically, are you referring to that may or may not be useful?

"Looks like Outcome Based Education has come to the Israeli Mossad. Geeze, these guys are starting to remind me of the horrible botch-up done by the rescue team Jimmy Carter sent to Iran to try to free our hostages. I thought the Mossad were supposed to be the elite of the elite of the spy/terrorist/assassin bunch. Looks like they need to be held after school for a while."

IMHO, Bev
bcspecht at westol dot com From: B.C. Specht () * 03/05/98 11:13:46 EST

I agree with Bev on that one EXCEPT -------- maybe they had already committed to Al Gore Environmentally Safe Assassination Tools ....or ALGESAT.<-------(TOP SECRET)

Everyone knows that crap just don't work as good!!! No Ummmph! to it! No Pizzzazz! It just peters out on you.

A new Israeli spy scandal sparked anger among Greek-Cypriot MPs yesterday, just five months after a Cyprus court jailed two Israelis for approaching a restricted military area during secret army operations.

The Chairman of the Parliamentary Defense Committee, Takis Hadjidemetriou, said that Parliament would probably examine the issue when it returns from its summer recess.

The scandal broke Thursday when the Phileftheros newspaper reported that a Greek-Cypriot motorist, angry over receiving parking fines for a car currently off the road, had inadvertently blown the cover of Israeli intelligence agents using his number plate for secret operations on the island.

The aggrieved motorist had spotted a Mazda 323 sporting the same plates as his disabled Volvo and followed it to the Israeli Embassy in a high speed chase, the paper reported.

One more smiley face from you, NDCORUP, and I'm gonna put you in the Montauk Chair and send you I don't know where...

Boyd, play the game straight. That article is from when? That "yesterday" is not today's yesterday.

Sorry that question was not well thought out. Thinking out loud about the implications of the consequences of making this public. Chamish will soon be departed IMHO.
I don't see anyway that this conspiracy will be widely known for at least 35 years. At the current rate you and I and others will be hanging onto the Second Masada, trapped on a Christian reservation, or have long been utter wards of the state somewhere in the US. If and when a group of people come public with these allegations, how small a percentage of the public will care? The elites have so destroyed "democracies' that public opinion will never be shifted in the favor of the truth in this matter. Out of those who care, how many will put their neck on the line, or just toe the line?
(Rant over), you can proceed to amaze the uneducated amongst you. One more thing, the Mossad is not an Israeli organization, their members just keep their families there, and use their passports and taxbase as needed.

"One more smiley face from you, NDCORUP, and I'm gonna put you in the Montauk Chair and send you I don't know where... "

It's a CAREFULLY crafted ruse. :-) Know what I mean?:-) I think the Chinese taught it to me :-)

Your point is well-taken. I have long thought the same: Is there anything anymore that will raise the ire of the folk on the "Good Ship Lollipop"?

And if I had the goods on whatever I chose, what would it become, good net fodder?

That's it! I debated potatoes or latrine duty for you. No, better yet, both. Potatoes in latrine duty. Hehehe. Start peeling...

That article is not dated 7-31-99 on the Iran News Website. Those may be their postings as of 7-31-99, but the article itself has no date on it.

Would care to tell me with a straight face you did not know that article is how many years old? Is it your intent now to expose misdeeds using deception? You've got nerve to say this is a serious discussion. I suggest you back up.

There's also another angle, as pointed out in a column in the NY post, referenced in here. In the column, Podhoretz's beef with the Kennedy clan was that Joe Sr was a big fan of Hitler in the 1930's, and as ambassador to Britain allegedly was instrumental in the passing of the Balfour Declaration, which stopped Jews from escaping Germany by emigrating to Palestine. Podhoretz thus believes Joe Sr to have been the cause of the deaths of thousands of Jews. The Old Testament passage about the sins of the fathers being visited on the sons comes to mind.

It does not stretch the imagination too much to think that someone who's very serious about his Old Testament not passing up an opportunity to visit some grief on a grandkid of Joe Sr.

That piece by Podhoretz has more historical untruths than the other. Call it standard agit/prop. Hey, if folks are no good, no loss, right? [The subluminal read is: so why waste your thoughts thinking he died under anything other than the circumstances as reported (if only the media would keep it straight as it keeps changing)?] However in this case Podhoretz is putting the sins of the grandfather onto the grandson., using disinformation about the sons in the process to get there. All in all, a deceitful bit of writing.

One more thing, the Mossad is not an Israeli organization, their members just keep their families there, and use their passports and taxbase as needed.

Metalbird, Next you'll be telling me that the Mossad is just a bunch of Irish lads on holiday from Donegal.;o)

This is one of the best posts on FR in a long time. But it raises as many questions as it answers.

It's long been apparent that the official explanations for the deaths of Colby, Brown and Foster do not hold up, that they were most probably murders. But I remember a comment of Kathleen Janoski's that the good guys at AFIP doubted that the stewardess was a hit. Maybe Chamish has inside info there. The air traffic control guy was almost certainly hit. The police claim to have caught the Starbucks killer - a lone killer who supposedly used two different weapons in the murder.

Chamish is obviously claiming a hit on Bono. For what motive? What could Bono have known? Was it a demonstration to keep the other boys in line on other important matters?

I found this line intriguing: before I knew it, I was tracking down serial killers. Jewish serial killers.

It's not clear to me whether he is attributing any of the murders outside Israel to Israeli assassins. Anyone else able to read between the lines there and figure it out? I believe Grabbe alleged a Mossad archer squad hit on Foster.

Chamish's info on JFK jr's efforts to expose the Rabin murder would certainly provide motive for a hit there.

Waiting to see where his investigation of that goes, or if he stays alive long enough to do it.

Another interesting thing is that the concrete head crowd has stayed away from this thread--studiously. Past their grade level, no doubt.

If this author isn't into controlled substances already, he might as well develop a habit for them. That way he can believe all sorts of things, only he won't stress about it so much.

Another interesting thing is that the concrete head crowd has stayed away from this thread--studiously. Past their grade level, no doubt.

The "concrete head crowd"? LOL. I always liked to call them the "triple-naughts" or "OOO"'s That's an acronym for "Obnoxious Order of the Ostrich".

"Who was Clinton's pretty advisor to the deaf, and how did she (supposedly) die?"

Her name was Paula Grober. She was a speech interpreter for the deaf. She was killed in a one car accident with of course no witnesses. She was thrown approx. 33 feet from the vehicle which indicated a high rate of speed.(ala Johnny Lawton, Neil Moody) Paula was a very attractive women and she traveled extensively with Clinton from 1978 until her death. Clinton once stated that Grober's death was "a great personal loss" and that "Hillary and I extend our sincere sympathy to Paula's family. I had the privilege of working with her over many years."

Just another accident. Paula, with a long list of company, no longer can interpret anything. As far as the majority of the American people, I can assure you they are deaf.

The triple OOO's don't work on weekends as they are paid shills. That is why it is a good strategy to post really juicy stuff during their breaks ala Michael Rivero.

Thanks for the lead. Bookmarked. Anyone have any ideas on a motive for a hit on Bono?

You really have no idea. I don't want go there, but there are actually people of every race and creed working for the Mossad. Insiders can speak a once extinct 3000 year old language in the same room as the hired help and they have no idea what they're saying. And yes, many don't live in Israel, nor even have many family members there.

another note: Ever wonder why the suspected NATO inside informer for Slobo was a Frenchman during the Kosovo ordeal? Doesn't it seem that the Russians, French, Chinese, Iraqi, Bylorussian, Israeli and North Korean security apparatuses have the Anglo/American cartel pretty much figured out? Looks like bin Laden will be "allowed" to be a martyr after all, left to drift in the wind after his big hit in the U.S. in a couple of months? Wild speculation, I know, but it is better than the best Bond movie, and it might happen. for real?!?

You have missed Jerseyhighlander's point, which is because you are too fixated on your own view instead of comprehending his.

"Chamish is obviously claiming a hit on Bono. For what motive? What could Bono have known? Was it a demonstration to keep the other boys in line on other important matters?"

We now know a great deal about the web of Chinese connections to this traitorous administration. We have discussed at length the traitors involved within the COSCO communist adventure. This was and still is very important to this administration and to the communist Chinese. The communist personnel are and will continue to develop operations between the Pananma Canal and the COSCO facility. Now, with what we know concerning this issue, who was a co-sponsor to the bill to stop the traitorous COSCO deal. Sonny Bono.Legislation Introduced To Stop China Takeover Of Long Beach Naval Station Is there any proof? Well, organized crime usually leaves little, and in the current climate, it wouldn't matter much if they did. Seems about every arm of law enforcement is corrupt to its head.

Jim Wilhite, Vice Chairman of Arkla, Inc., just couldn't get the knack of skiing either. Mack McLarty and Bill probably talk about ole' Wilhite over cigars from time to time.

Bono thought coming to Washington was really about being a Representative ["Mr. Bono Comes To Washington"]. Talk about clueless. He even thought there really was a "War On Drugs." He was right, in a way; they made war on him.

Bono was very popular and persuasive, he was a very vocal critic of Clinton.Vocal critics of Clinton do not fare well (attempted hit on Delay and Inhofe) He effectively organized opposition to one of Clinton's (NWO)pet projects, can't recall which, I think it was fast track.He was on the judiciary committee so he was a threat to marshall votes in a similar manner.I believe Bono was also asking questions about a hit squad in Haiti.

Three Observations:
1. Israel is the only First-World Nation besides the U.S. which has a huge, unassimilable Third-World population on its border.

2. The New World Order has declared its unequivocal hostility to "Ethnically-Based" nations--in fact the de Facto Global Regime (NEW WORLD ORDER) has trumpeted its antagonism to the "obsolete idea" of the Nation State itself--

NWO has no respect for nations or central banks. Just look at the recent gold selloffs. I think many of the buyers are the very wealthy NWO types that want and can afford a huge hedge against who_knows_what. Central banks are also jerked around by NWO and become less and less banks that at least have a bias for the country they control the money in.

BTW..... you seem to one of the few who likes Pat and respects the bravery of Israel and the very dangerous part of the world they exist in.

Bono was also purportedly working with a drug informant in his [Bono's] own little drug investigation when he didn't get any satisfaction from the DEA. [I suppose Bono was gonna show 'em and bring back the goods (proof).]

Reportedly there is a Bono file at DEA in regards to this and the informant. That should all come out more or less about the same time the Bush Family DEA files are released.

3. The same international Jewish Organizations which have diligently pursued Switzerland and German Corporations for Holocaust Reparations have willfully overlooked the Millions of Dollars in unlamented Blood Money that enriched the Plutocratic-Parasitic BUSH Dynasty...has a deal been cut? Who will double-cross whom first?

Another, better IMHO, URL to get where Ticonderoga is pointing to. Here is a place to download or view as web pages the internet classic: "George Bush, The Unauthorized Biography"

Thanks gentlemen. So DEA is withholding 3 pages of info on Bono. The info most likely relates to his cooperation with efforts to aid drug interdiction when he was Mayor of PS. He was actively working to stop the flow of drugs after getting to D.C. He was outspoken about China/COSCO proposed Long Beach facility. His name was a household word, giving him leverage/making him a threat to the criminal conspiracy.

I wish every American could read this thread. Can murder on such a large scale, of prominent people no less, really take place, with almost no one paying attention? I fear the answer is yes. If so, the American experiment may truly be doomed.

Just when I think the level of discourse at the Free Republic is on the ascent, I read stuff like this. Depressing is what it is.

I wonder how many times Newt had to tell Bono, you're getting in my face and on my nerves...

In the column, Podhoretz's beef with the Kennedy clan was that Joe Sr was a big fan of Hitler in the 1930's, and as ambassador to Britain allegedly was instrumental in the passing of the Balfour Declaration, which stopped Jews from escaping Germany by emigrating to Palestine.

I doubt seriously that John Podhoretz would have written precisely this. The Balfour Declaration was enunciated by Balfour in 1924. In 1924 Joe Kennedy Sr was running swill out the Bahamas and up the east coast. In the late 20's and early 30's he was making movies in Hollywood. It was in 1939 that he was named Ambassador to Britain, and he wasn't anti-Semitic or a supporter of Hitler. He was simply fearful of the United States getting involved in another European war and losing a lot of good men to no useful purpose. He always felt that World War I was stupid, wasteful, and a big, big mistake, and he saw the coming storm in Europe as a reprise of World War I. His opposition to America's entry into the war is what ended his fledgling political career. I say all this for the sake of accuracy, not because I am an apologist for Joe Kennedy Sr. I am not.

I joined Free Republic because I thought the discourse was leveled at the truth. If there is a falsehood in the man's article, we should find it. If there's not, given the gravity of the subject, we had better figure out our next step.

Amen, you said it all, bondhue. We should separate things out in the Chamish article.

This thread is so packed with info and good links that it is definitely TBB/M (to be bookmarked).

You know something, rubbertramp, I do believe you're right about sinkspur, adroit, helms et al. taking FR vacations on weekends. It's nice to have a thread with a serious progressive CT discussion for a change, without disruptors! The old hands answer the newbies questions, metalbird1 astounds me with yet more info I have to try to digest and some experts appear (Bev Specht, Alamo-Girl) to read our discussion.

Now back to the topic... if this crash was a hit by any foreign power or agency, it will be suppressed and hidden and NEVER acknowledged, even years and years later!

IMHO, the NWO agenda is advanced by so many agencies and groups that it is impossible to "tag" a crime on any single one. To see how this very concept has leeched into fiction, read Clancy's "Rainbow Six." MI6, the CIA and the Mossad all operate in tandem in this novel. I heard Clancy being interviewed on this very topic and evidently there were those in power who objected to some of his fictionalized truths which were revealed in this novel.

The above paragraph leads into my comment to boyd... I read earlier this spring that, after Yugoslavia, Cyprus was next on NATO's agenda. Poor little Cyprus! I can see the thinking behind your post about the 2 Mossad agents skulking around Nicosia. At the present time, the ethnic separation in Cyprus is working. The Greek side is a rich and thriving place, a quirky rogue state which is fiercely independent. But this island is a strategic post which NATO must covet as much as it coveted Kosovo. To be continued when the next shoe falls...

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Thanks for the link to the Colby story. It was a great article and was a great refresher.

"Chamish is obviously claiming a hit on Bono. For what motive? What could Bono have known? Was it a demonstration to keep the other boys in line on other important matters? "

As I understand it Bono was of the new conservitives that was really well liked. He had the ability to get along with most anyone and he was well liked. I think he was comming up fast as a strong force in congress. And I think he may have been very sincere about his fight for principles. And we have all heard about the corruption that motivated him to run for mayor. This could have very well have been percieved as a threat to the great coverup. In fact he might have already found out something and been planning on exposing it. In todays politics...Honesty and credibility will get you killed.

Hullo, R-T...are you an H.H. Munro (Saki) Fan? My, but Auntie got HER comeuppance--heh, heh, heh...

Yes, I admire the pluck of Israel and the brilliance of the Jewish People--and I find no paradox to be reconciled in my support for Pat Buchanan.

As the leading spokesman for the Old Republic's Taftite/America-First Wing Pat has been targeted for political destruction by the Neo-Conservatives/Globalists who currently dominate the GOP (just as Neo-Liberals/Globalists rule the DNC).

Calling Pat an "anti-Semite" is the easiest way for the Globalist faction to demonize and neutralize their most eloquent and passionate challenger. A look at the Globalist Bush Dynasty's shameless collaboration with the Nazi Regime and tireless agitating for an anti-Sovereignty (U.S. & Israeli alike) "New World Order" should clearly illuminate Israel's true enemies...

I don't think it's the nominative case "qui". I think it may be the genitive case "cui" as in "the good of whom?" ["cui bono"]. However, I don't have my Latin grammar over here with me...

Having said the above, it's still a terrific pun, not to mention a valid question to ask about Bono's accident.

I'll resist the urge to type in a friendly smiley face here, although I really enjoy typing in those little gems...

Leah Rabin wrote her own book. She seems like a classy, idealistic lady who is truthful. Sometimes you learn a lot by listening to a man's wife.

You seem to have metalbird's penchant for tiptoeing around Israel. Granted the Mossad has others' working for them but it is Israel's interests first, last and always. Unlike the CIA, which is constantly shooting USA in the foot.

Slym, re: the radar link, it seems to be hit and miss. I'm told one minute it's gone and when I check it is. Then I go back to it later and it's back again. It seems now to be gone again. If/when it does come back, I strongly suggest printing it all out.

Yes, you might well be right about my "qui bono" phrase--I believe I have mixed the French [qui = who] and Latin, not that I know much about either...

That Rabin was assassinated is patently true. As to who is responsible, I do not know. That William Colby's death is suspect, I concur. That Vince Foster probably shot himself in his car in the White House Parking Garage or in his office and that his body was moved, I find quite plausible. But that George Bush trafficked in cocaine I find incredible. And even if true, neither this, nor any of these deaths has ANYTHING to do with JFK Jr's plane crash. This guy is attempting to hype book sales using the JFK Jr incident as a springboard. Period.

I don't blame him for trying. If there's a market, why not exploit it? But let's not be gullible and buy into his hype. Jeez!

Dude-its time you quit your job of sucking money off of the american people so you can flame and disrupt threads. We are tired of provacateurs like yourself. Too close to reality for you and your fellow minions????

I say this in good faith because you attack most threads that question the "states mantra" every time. if you dont like what you read, or it disturbs you too much than click on the X at the top right of your screen and it will all go away. Also is Carl from Marrietta trying to assimilate Carl (i believe) Oman's first name so you can disparage a good truth writers name so people might assume you are that CARL?? as we all say here ....'get a life'

its all about MONTAUK

what kind of newage weaponry is stationed there. recently there was an inhouse fighting going on between i believe airforce and navy personel over who controls this site. anyone know what i am talking about??

"I'll resist the urge to type in a friendly smiley face here, although I really enjoy typing in those little gems..."

First, it confuses the real enemies of this Country. They are DEAD SERIOUS about their plan and methods. They can't contemplate anyone making light of what they LABOR over.

It COULD indicate that you are somewhat unbalanced (crazy). Who would want to screw with a crazy person?

They also wonder How You Can Be So Smug about all this? What do you know ? (Drives their BP UP!)

you wrote:"Thanks for the lead. Bookmarked. Anyone have any ideas on a motive for a hit on Bono? "

He was becoming a very staunch AMERICA FIRSTER. I wish i had a list of America first initiatives he was promoting, but the ones i read where refreshing.

As for william Colby. He was definitely a Massod hit. A recent finding by a group of germans looking into concluded that he was indeed assasinated and the prime culprits were the massod. could it have been payback for Colbys Dismissal of James Jesus Angleton - prime mover in JFKs assasination or could it have been Colbys recent efforts that were clearly AMERICA FIRST. things that make you go HMMMM....

Tramp, you are living proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing--particularly when you say the "Mossad has Israel's interests first, last and always." That is naive. Would you say the same thing about Edgar Bronfman [major player in NWO Gang and Jewish organizations] also having "Israel's interests first, last and always"? [And why does he not invite me over for chicken dinner on Sundays?]

You are a newbie, whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. And you do not realize what is at issue here--which is why it may appear to be tap-dancing on my part on the surface of it to you. Moreover, you are speculating on things based not on prima facie evidence but rather cross-currents of conflicting information, for example: You have not acknowledged, perhaps not even seen, the radar images of a disturbance pattern going in a straight line from the New York area to New England the day of the crash. While I don't always concur with M. Rivero [understatement], he might well be right that this was a test; but, at any rate, it does show not only that the technology exists but also what it is potentially capable of [as if we didn't know that already]. Am I making claims here? No. I am only saying what I am saying.

Overall, your thinking in this matter is fixated on Michael Piper's book, "Final Judgment". Spare me your missives to the contrary. And again I'll say to you, when I presented Piper evidence which destroyed his contentions I was no longer welcome--but was welcomed by him with open arms preceding that. Was it because it destroyed his beautiful theory or ruined an agenda-driven book [or both]? And mind you, I am not saying he did not do some excellent research; it's just his theory is wrong. Your going along with it suggests to me a bias on your part; not only on the basis of what I am saying now but also on the basis of what I have said to you before: that the Israelis did not have logistical and operational capability to pull it off. Could they have had a hand in it? That's 'possible'. But 'if so', they certainly were not the driving force. Except for these issues, I believe you hold credence to what I say--which brings up the last matter: I believe you believe I have the goods on JFK and Dallas and are put off I have not laid it out for you. Sorry, you'll have to keep guessing [wink].

You know I am your best fan, Metal but the Mossad are really scary people. I am not biased against people of the Judaic persuasion but I would not want to meet up with the Mossad. To give them their due (probably thanks to the Mossad), Israel is a sovereign nation. Can the same be said of USA under the CIA's tutelage? Are we a sovereign nation anymore? King Bill has sold us out to the UN or NWO.

On that fateful Friday, that you speak of, I drove from Ohio to Mass. The Thursday evening before, upstate New York was as hazy as Hyannis, that Friday evening. Hope it wasn't my car's emissions.

So, let's see: You have a lot of questions about a lot of deaths, but not J-J's, right?

Therefore, if the death of one person, J-J's, does not fit into your belief system, it should be dismissed. Thanks for clearing that up for me. [O, that's not what you're saying? No? Then naughty on you for parsing your own words.]

BTW, again: I was the one who directed the J-J source material to Chamish; he did not solicit it. Get it (yet)?

The Mossad are scary people? Is that new? Have you ever seen my posts on PROMIS [do I not know they were/are intimately tied into it]? Do they not have a license to kill here [and that it may have come close to home (do you read me?)]?

Yes, Israel is a sovereign nation--about as much as the United States. Their media is about as crooked as ours, and their korporate as well. Others have noted the similarity between the Rabin and JFK Sr. [now we have to specify which one] hits. For me the similarity is not only the 'takeout' itself, but the managing of it afterwards as well. See my point? It is not 'Mecca' there; too many view it with a Biblical image rather than the ground level reality.

To me, one of the greatest ongoing threats here is the CIA's mindkontrol robots: Crazed killers to be used for assassination purposes or to commit atrocities, and all manner of crimes leading up to that degree.

Last comment here. You again mention the haze. As I responded to you before when you previously mentioned it, that still does not satisfy the plane dropping like a rock immediately after the radio contact [regardless the attempted erasing from the record about the UPI piece about it]. Way too co-inky-dink for my taste. What would that have been about? Voice recognition, then wham..bye-bye. And btw, will we wait forever for that J-J flight instructor reportedly in Europe to ever surface again? {Or maybe he did surface again--when the bodies were recovered...}

I must come to the defense of rubbertramp. First, aren't you a little cheeky with the comment of her being a newbie. She may be new to this forum, but she is not a "newbie" in her knowledge. I remember when you blew into these parts, and that was not so long ago. And what does being a "newbie" have to do with anything?

"I believe you believe I have the goods on JFK and Dallas and are put off I have not laid it out for you. Sorry, you'll have to keep guessing [wink]."

That must be the oldest BS in the book: "I have a secret, and you don't know what it is and I'm not going to tell you. na,na,na"
Oh please. Don't be coy, lay it all out.

(Not trying to be argumentative mb1, but you are being harsh with someone who does not deserve it.)

The death of Sony Bono was a tragedy for American conservatism in Congress. Sony was not only smart, he was funny, and he was "from Hollywood." All along, I have thought his death was not a skiing "accident" but a "hit". Why? No other reason than that people who make fun of Da Bubba and his Troupe, and who are in places of importance, don't fare too well in this day and time. You know? Liberals/Marxists/totalitarians just have no sense of humor......

Guess that was too easy. Maybe more was involved. Of course, there is zero evidence of anything other than a skiing accident so we can't discuss the other possibilities here, or shouldn't. Will detract from the site. So, Shhhhh...

As far as Rabin's assassination and who/what was behind it....there's no way to know that for sure either. All I knew was that if Rabin had lived, we would have had American troops on the Golan Heights by now. He didn't so we don't, and for that I am grateful. With Barak and ClintBlairCarville now, suspect we will soon have those American troops up there on the Golan, probably in the coming year. (Our troops are everywhere else in the world, why not put them right in the middle of Armageddon to be??)

Ron Brown, Vince Foster, Bill Colby, Sonny Bono??, and then there are the "little people": Barbara Alice Wise, Betty Currie's brother, the guy who read the bills in the House (the latter two both run over by automobiles in quite strange circumstances), Jerry Parks, and (will stop the list now) Jim (name escapes me - the Madison Gurantee founder who "died" in prison).

And they are going after Linda Tripp??????? Of course, anyone who tells the truth about the criminal organization is a target. (P.D. We must stand with Linda no matter what. One small reason....if we fail to do so, who will stand with us when they come for us?)

The "newbie" I was referring to is the area she was delving into, not how long she's been on FR. If you don't get the context, maybe it's because you were too focused on being a hero.

You're clueless in netland. My hunch is, the most researching and investigating you've ever done is having gone from one Web site to the next, then posting you're favorite. I don't believe you have a recollection at all of the things I have posted which have not been published before. The reason for that is the people I've been hooked into. Go back, for a starter, to the beginning of this thread. I just love it when someone walks into a thread and takes off from the bottom of it.

I've investigated JFK since the mid-70s, and some of which I've dug up is pasted in a number of books and articles, both mainstream and alternative, and yes, I'm cited as the source.

BTW, I was associated with INSLAW's investigator, up until two years ago, that is--until he was murdered.

You have it exactly right. JFK Jr's death is TOTALLY unrelated to the Mossad, to Colby, to Rabin, to Foster, and to "cocaine trafficking by Bush".

1.. Chamish is one of these guys who sees conspiracies everywhere... but as the saying goes "even paranoids have enemies."

2. I have read his book on the Rabin assassination and unless he has fabricated or distorted any number of facts about the assassination, the investigation and the aftermath, he makes a powerful, powerful case.

3. I am the farthest thing you could find from a conspiracy buff, as many of the arguments I have had on this forum about the Kennedy assassination will attest, but I would put the odds that Chamish has nailed the Rabin assassination for what it truly was at about 70-30.

"You're clueless in netland. My hunch is, the most researching and investigating you've ever done is having gone from one Web site to the next,..

I am sorry to say I can top that by several years, son. (As if that matters in the great scheme of things.)

No response to my newbie comment? Wonder why. Perhaps it's because others might start to think you're dumb for not getting it, instead of maybe just trying to be a hero. So here you are attempting to salvage your ego because of it, all over again.

I stated only facts. If that's an ego process to you, maybe it's only from where you're looking at it. I don't have a need to embellish. Maybe you do.

Do tell your background, pops. I'm anxious to ask questions. Or because of that will you be unable to provide it? I'm expecting nothing less than James Bond.

Break it up boys. It must be the heat. Don't be cranky. Thanks for coming to my rescue, USA2000. "Newbie" is one of the nicer epithets that I have been called lately. On another thread about vaccines, today, I was called "moron". Posting on the FR gives you a strong hide.

I don't doubt for a minute that you are the keeper of some weird secret about the JFK assassination. I will worm it out of you.

You do resemble JJ a little bit but you probably don't have his money. Another Mossad hit was a man called Paisley. That is a really interesting one.

My " ;) " was not intended to indicate I had some goods on JFK and Dallas. USA2000 misread it [which wasn't his only, as I pointed out earlier], and you followed his lead. It was meant to convey a question mark; that is, to leave you believing whatever you chose to.

Thanks for you comments. There was a time that I was not so into conspiracy theorys. If it was not for all that I have seen on FR in the past couple of years...Coupled with the interviews of Father Malichi Martin and the bible it self then I might still think all these theorys were nuts. Revelations speaks of a great deception taking place by leaders who will be under the control of satan at the same time true devotion to God will be on a great down swing. I offer to you the name of the grand conspiritor behind it all and his name is lucifer. Does that make me a kook ?

Metal...I have really enjoyed some the information you have offered and I think you must be pretty wise about a lot of what is going on. I do wish you would not get so hostile to others even if they get a little testy with there beliefs. In this case I think the power of persuasion through knowledge is better than tring to out do them in level of attack. You are only causing a further seperation amound those you are trying to convince. It has also occured to me that you have probably seen enough in your research to make you bitter. I know I am very saddened by what I percieve to be obvious and very frustrated at the ease by which people just blow it all off. Thankfully I know that when the dust all settles then God will reign once more. Until then....It has only just begun.

I don't know H.H. Munro/Saki. GBS ? ... you are quite the literary one.I got riki_tiki from rikki tikki tavi the mongoose in the Rudyard Kipling short story. I will add the tavi when I get a chance. Looks like I better change the spelling also.

As far as Israel and Pat I agree with you.Israel is the underdog in the Middle East. They don't even have any oil. You are absolutely right about the Bush clan especially Prescott Bush. Did you check out the internet edition of the "Unauthorized Biography of George Bush"?

You're a neat girl!! Do you ever hang out in L.A.? We might fight, but we'd never bore each other ;^)

Kindly indulge my abject presumptiousness--do you love Sibelius, too?? Bless you, sweet Mongoose--may you ever get the better of the Cobras...

Oh sure, Metalbird. We have ways to make you talk. I will just have to torture you out of it.;o)

well....Ive researched the JFK thing since the 60s, myself....hung with Howard, Harris, Russel, Groden, Penn Jones, Farrell, Oswald-Porter, and others...read everything I could find, bought books, records, CDs, manuscripts, files, gone to symposiums, lectures, films....and the only conclusion that is definite, that I have come away with...is...that JFK is dead......my hypothesis is....we will never know all........

In hanging with all those people, the least you could do is spell their names right.

The storyline, 'we'll probably never know,' comes straight out of CIA Psychoprop 101; it implies since 'we' will never know, why bother...

Ply me with food and drink and I will tell you everything ~~you want to know~~ I want you to know.

Metalbird1, you gave me some sage advise when I was in the heat of a flame war... remember, they have to live with their comments. I thank you for a very insightful post and I am doing a little extra-curricular homework that this data fills in a couple of gaping voids. Thanks.

Oh, GREAT ONE, forgive me for I cannot spell......alas, I am nothing but a CIA lackey, please save us all!!!! Sheesh....

If you took the comment about the CIA as directed at you, it was of your own choosing. You read into it that which was neither stated nor implied.

Perhaps you are different; I usually make it a point to spell my friends names correctly.

I don't doubt for a minute that you are the keeper of some weird secret about the JFK assassination.

If you took the comment about the CIA as directed at you, it was of your own choosing. You read into it that which was neither stated nor implied.

Perhaps you are different; I usually make it a point to spell my friends names correctly.

Sonny Bono was an ex-$cientologist who had often spoken out against the organization, earning harassment and death threats in recompense. In light of the unnaturally cozy relationship between the White House and $cientology, any investigation of unnatural circumstances surrounding Bono's death needs to include this angle. If he was "offed", it was more likely something to do with his past affiliations rather than his conservative political philosophy.

The storyline, 'we'll probably never know,' comes straight out of CIA Psychoprop 101...

If you answer correctly, we'll have to come pick you up for your PERMINDEX upgrade.

Nice try for a spin, giving a choice between two incorrect possibilities. It neither had to do with his past, nor his conservative beliefs: It was about his looking into ongoing government corruption.

Not to worry, adroit, no one is really reading your post about tag-teaming with sinkspur for disruption. It only appears on your and his screen.

The triple OOO's don't work on weekends as they are paid shills. That is why it is a good strategy to post really juicy stuff during their breaks ala Michael Rivero.

You're so intrepid, we're coming to take you away, ha-ha! We're coming to take you away.

In the best Riveroan tradition of demanding that a negative be proven: Let's see your evidence that he doesn't do that already!

Don't you just love metalbird's hat above? The red really compliments his eyes...

"The "newbie" I was referring to is the area she was delving into, not how long she's been on FR.

My comment about the irrelevance of that still stands. People such as Posner can repeat the falsehoods and come to the same erroneous conclusions even after being involved for years, and yet some researchers who are 'newbies' can look at the same evidence and discover things that have been totally overlooked for years, adding there own fresh perspectives on old problems.

Go back, for a starter, to the beginning of this thread. I just love it when someone walks into a thread and takes off from the bottom of it."

What the....? I think you should go back. I posted at #7, #12, #16, and read every post after that, you dropped in at #42.

gee.....my married sister's last name is Elliot....or is it Eliott??.....so you've exposed me, a blatant non-speller and name dropper.....now on a serious note....you're "I've got a Secret" routine wears thin.......but then YOU are the controller of the JFK threads, aren't you.....shame on anyone who may have a different theory (I didn't say I even had a theory)......I know that some day you will give us the "low down" on what really happened...just like Posner and Russo, huh?...hahaha

Lessons From the Sudetenland,
A contribution by Benjamin Netanyahu

History teaches us that man learns nothing from history.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

[Editor's Note: Forty-nine years ago last month, the nation Israel was reestablished in the Land. Thirty years ago this month, as a result of the famed Six Day War, Israel regained Biblical Jerusalem, as well as Gaza, the Sinai, and the Golan Heights. Although these areas were part of the original mandated land, and are undeniably essential for Israel's defense, it has become strangely "politically correct" to assume that peace in the Middle East is dependent upon their yielding these lands-the so-called "West Bank"-back to their enemies which are openly committed to their eventual extermination.

The strategic dilemma in the Middle East is strikingly parallel to the tragic and painful lessons of Czechoslovakia. The following is presented in the words of Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister of the State of Israel.1 ]

Their Strategic Barrier

Czechoslovakia was strategically placed in the heart of Europe, and its conquest was central to Hitler's plans for overrunning Europe. Though small, Czechoslovakia could field over 800,000 men (one of the strongest armies in Europe), and it had a highly efficient arms industry.

To complicate matters from Hitler's point of view, it possessed a formidable physical barrier to his designs in the shape of the Sudeten mountains, which bordered Germany and guarded the access to the Czech heartland and the capital city of Prague only miles away.

A system of fortifications and fortresses had been built in the mountains over many years, making passage by force a very costly proposition, perhaps even impossible. We now know from the Nuremberg trials and other sources that Hitler's generals were utterly opposed to an assault on the Czech fortifications.

Worse from Hitler's point of view, the Western powers had promised at Versailles to guarantee the Czech border against any aggressive attack. France, which in 1938 could field one hundred divisions (an army 50% larger than Germany's), had agreed in writing to come to the Czech's defense, and Britain and Russia were committed to joining in if France did so.

Propaganda vs. Reality

Since an outright military victory seemed impossible, Hitler embarked on an unprecedented campaign to politically force the Czechs to give up the land, and with it any hope of being able to defend their capital or their country.

The inhabitants of the Sudetenland, Hitler said, were predominantly German, and these three million Sudeten Germans deserved-what else?-the right of self-determination and a destiny separate from the other seven million inhabitants of Czechoslovakia; this despite the fact that the country was a democracy and that the Sudeten Germans enjoyed economic prosperity and full civil rights.

To buttress his claim, Hitler organized and funded the creation of a new Sudeten political leadership that would do his bidding, which was, in the words of Sudeten leader Konrad Henlein, to "demand so much that we can never be satisfied."2

William Shirer, who was a reporter in Europe at the time, succinctly summarized it:

Thus the plight of the German minority in Czechoslovakia was merely a pretext ... for cooking up a stew in a land he coveted, undermining it, confusing and misleading its friends and concealing his real purpose ... to destroy the Czechoslovak state and grab its territories .... The leaders of France and Great Britain did not grasp this. All through the spring and summer, indeed almost to the end, Prime Minister Chamberlain and Premier Daladier apparently sincerely believed, along with most of the rest of the world, that all Hitler wanted was justice for his kinsfolk in Czechoslovakia.3

In addition, Hitler backed the establishment of a Sudeten liberation movement called the Sudeten Free Corps, and he instigated a series of well-planned and violent uprisings that the Czechs were compelled to quell by force.4 Hitler's propaganda chief, Goebbels, orchestrated a fearful propaganda campaign of fabricated "Czech terror" and oppression of the Sudeten Germans.

The Czech refusal to allow the Sudeten territories to return to their "rightful" German owners, Hitler prattled, was proof that the Czechs were the intransigent obstacle to peace. For what choice would Germany have but to come to the assistance of its oppressed brethren living under intolerable Czech occupation?

Moreover, the Germans reversed causality, claiming that the Czechs were trying to precipitate a European crisis in order to prevent the breakup of their state, that the choice between war and peace in Europe was in Czech hands, and even that "this petty segment of Europe is harassing the human race."5

But there was a simple way to simultaneously avoid war and achieve justice, Hitler said. The Western powers-meaning Britain and France-could force the Czechs to do what was necessary for the sake of peace: Czechoslovakia had to relinquish the "occupied territories."

The Fickle West

And it worked. With astonishing speed, the governments and opinion-makers of the West adopted Hitler's point of view. Throughout 1937 and 1938, mounting pressure was exerted on Czechoslovakia by the leading Western powers "to go to the utmost limit" to meet Sudeten demands.6 Czech leader Edvard Benes was reviled as intransigent.

The Western press published articles lamenting Czech shortsightedness and its total disregard for the cause of peace in Europe, as well as the injustice of not allowing the Sudetenland to be "returned" to Germany (despite the fact that it had never been part of Germany). The British envoy who was dispatched to investigate the situation even went so far as to demand that Czechoslovakia "so remodel her foreign relations as to give assurances to her neighbors that she will in no circumstances attack them or enter into any aggressive action against them."7

Land for Peace

On September 18, 1938, under the gun of Hitler's September 28 deadline, a meeting was held between the British Cabinet and the French prime minister and foreign minister, in which it was determined that democratic Czechoslovakia must accede to Hitler's demands.

Despite the fact that the West had promised in writing at Versailles to go to war to defend Czecho-slovakia's borders, it agreed that the Czechs must give up the Sudetenland for "the maintenance of peace and the safety of Czechoslovakia's vital interests."

In return, the Czechs would receive from Britain and France "an international guarantee of the new boundaries... against unprovoked aggression."8

If the Czechs did not accept the plan and thereby save the peace of Europe, they were informed by the leaders of the free world, they would be left to fight Hitler alone. In Neville Chamberlain's immortal words: "It is up to the Czechs now."9 But in fact it was not even left to the Czechs. Chamberlain realized that if the Czechs were to fight, France and Britain might be forced to fight too. As the Czechs and Germans mobilized, Chamberlain became increasingly hysterical about averting war by buying off Hitler with the Czech defensive wall. He shuttled repeatedly to Germany to try to arrange the payoff. Finally, minutes before his September 28 deadline, Hitler "agreed" to Chamberlain's proposal for an international peace conference to bring peace to Central Europe.

At Munich, Britain and France pleaded with Hitler for 11 hours to "compromise" and take the Sudetenland peacefully. In the end Hitler agreed.

Having grasped the fact that his supposed democratic allies had allowed themselves to become tools in Hitler's hand, Prime Minister Benes announced Czecho-slovakia's capitulation to the demands of the totalitarians. "We have been basely betrayed," he said.10

The Western leaders returned in triumph to London and Paris. In government, in parliament, and in the press, Chamberlain and Daladier were praised, cheered, and thanked for having traded land for peace. "My friends," said Chamberlain, "I believe it is peace in our time." For when they shall say, 'Peace and safety'; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

1 Thessalonians 5:3

Phase Two

On September 30, the Czech army began its withdrawal from the Sudetenland-from the strategic passes, the mountain fortresses, and the major industrial facilities that would have been the backbone of Czechoslovakia's effort to defend itself. But this was only Phase One of Hitler's plan.

The German annexation of the Sudeten-land was followed by a renewed list of demands on the Czechs. The Nazis continued to invent incidents of violence and oppression against the ethnic German minority in what was left of the Czech state.

Less than six months later, on March 15, 1939, the Nazi war machine rolled through the rest of Czechoslovakia. Shorn of their defenses in the Sudeten mountains, the Czechs were now powerless to resist. Phase Two had been implemented.

The Western powers again did nothing. Once more, all their assurance proved worthless.

Grave and Present Danger

Unfortunately, the parallels to today's effort to gouge Judea and Samaria out of Israel are all too easy to see.

Like Czechoslovakia, Israel is a small democracy with a powerful army much aided by defensive terrain. Like the Sudeten district, the West Bank is mountainous territory, a formidable military barrier that guards the slender and densely populated Israeli shoreline and Israel's capital city.

Like the Germans, the Arabs11 understand that as long as Israel controls these mountains, it will not be overrun. They understand too that a military campaign to seize these mountains is at present unthinkable, and that Israel's removal from them can be achieved only by the application of irresistible political pressure by the West on Israel to withdraw.

The Arab regimes have therefore embarked on a campaign to persuade the West that the Arab inhabitants of these mountains (like the Sudeten Germans, comprising roughly a third of the total population) are a separate people that deserves the right of self- determination-and that unless such self-determination is granted, the Arab states will have no choice but to resort to war to secure it.

As in the case of Czechoslovakia, Israel's insistence on not parting with territories strategically vital for its defenses is presented as the obstacle to peace.

Echoing Munich, the Arabs repeatedly advocate "active" American (and European) involvement, in the hope that an American Chamberlain can be found to force "the intransigent party" to capitulate where it is otherwise unwilling to compromise its own security.

That the Arabs have borrowed directly from the Nazis in this, as in so many of their other devices against Israel, is not surprising.

What is surprising, or at least disappointing, is the speed and readiness with which this transparent ruse has been received, digested, and internalized by the elite of the Western world. Not a day passes without some somber editorial or political comment from august quarters in America or Europe asking Israel to voluntarily accept the same decree that Czechoslovakia was asked to accept.

In 1938, the London Times, the leading newspaper of the world at the time, published a celebrated editorial that summed it all up:

It might be worthwhile for the Czechoslovak government to consider whether they should exclude altogether ... making Czechoslovakia a more homogenous state by the secession of that fringe of populations who are contiguous to the nation with which they are united by race .... The advantages to Czechoslovakia of becoming a homogenous state might conceivably outweigh the obvious disadvantages of losing the Sudeten German district.12

* � *

The foregoing comments by the present Prime Minister of Israel were excerpted from his book published in 1993.

It is astonishing how the Western press has swallowed the PLO line that they are "the oppressed people struggling to be free," that Israel is the aggressor, that forcing Israel to withdraw from its strategic defenses will bring peace, and that the survivors of the Holocaust are now the "bad guys." Amazing.

Yet this is consistent with Biblical prophecy. Jerusalem is prophesied to be "a cup of trembling" to all nations round about ... all that burden themselves with it will be torn to pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it."13

Notes:

1. Benjamin Netanyahu, A Place Among the Nations, Bantam Books, New York, 1993, pp.154-159. (The subtitles and Scripture reference have been added.)

2. William Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany, Ballantine, New York, 1950, p.448.

3. Ibid., pp.488- 89.

4. Ibid., pp.524- 26.

5. Ibid., pp.490, 519, 538.

6. Ibid., p.489.

7. Ibid., pp.522, 526.

8. Ibid., p.527.

9. Benes quoted Ibid., p.535.

10. Times quoted Ibid., pp.529, 564.

11. The term "Arab" is used in a condescension to the Western press, and thus to common (illiterate) usage for the enemies of Israel. There is no common ethnic or geographic discriminator: they are Muslims.

12. Quoted in Ibid., p.518.

13. Zechariah 12:2, 3.

This article was first published in the June 1997 edition of Personal Update.

www.khouse.org

The reason I think you are in the CIA is that you can't spell. You guys are having trouble reading maps these days too.,,,shooting us all in the foot.

that the Israelis did not have logistical and operational capability to pull it off. Could they have had a hand in it? That's 'possible'. But 'if so', they certainly were not the driving force

All they needed were four able-bodied assassins in Dealey Plaza and the SS to look the other way. This bought them a ticket into the big nuclear game. And there really is Karma. Look to Israel today. Reap as you sow. Eye for an eye.

Adroit....Permindex.....it really hits a nerve. Doesn't it? Just a little front company that unravels the whole mystery.

You and metalbird are beautiful when you're angry. It's okay. I'm a big girl. Thanks for coming to my rescue.

Well thanks a lot. You made me read through the rest of the thread just to tell me that?

RT, persistent, aren't you? No, Permindex doesn't unravel the whole JFK thing. Double-Chek Corp. probably would be more helpful. Buxx, CIA? Nah, groupie.

And while I'm on the subject of Buxx, I believe he means Culinary Institute of America.

And while I'm on the subject of cooking...Basil, now there's a spicy name for you...

Hurricane, what's "Menna"? Isn't that what the CIA gets paid in? {'Course, it could also be an aftershave...}

You're confusing me with someone else. I am of the opinion that the "test of a secret weapon" suggestion is the inevitable false trail thrown out to confuse matters every time another cover-up falls apart. and I note that, just as was the case when the cover-up surrounding Vincent Foster fell apart, the favorite target for the false trail crew remains the Mossad.

Then I stand corrected, in that I didn't want to be remiss in citing attribution; I assure you, the argument didn't rest on your being attached to it. Let me re-state it then: This suggests this may have been a test. Again, for the parsers out there, the operative words are "may" and "suggests".

However: The testing [and use of] an energy weapon from a classified U.S. physics lab in the New York [Long Island] area would NOT suggest the Mossad--either as the perp, or as a false trail to their being the perp. What's the point of that portion of your argument? It's illogical.

I do not know who the perp is, presuming there is one [which I believe there is]; and Michael, unless you're in "Connected Land", neither do you.

Is the Mossad sometimes [wrongly] the designated perp? Likely so. But to satisfy rubbertramp's suspicions, perhaps listening in hear: Are they [the Mossad] part of the "Little Sisters of the Poor"? Let's be real: By all appearances, the Mossad is the Doppelganger of the CIA--only with a smaller shoe size.

At this juncture, they [the Mossad] may well have pushed their way into the NWO Gang board room and acquired a seat at the table. If this is so, just don't presume new members come in tenured--if you get my drift. I doubt they have.

Whoa, now this is about as interesting as it gets. We are so close to the 7th millinium. Sept 11 to be exact. The Ark of the Covennent has been found and things are going to start poppin real soon. I would not be surprised to see a confrontation between Isreal and Russia real soon. Hang on we are going for a ride. The age of Grace is just about over, get right with God and soon !!!!!!!!!!!!!1

In regards to what the wife knows.... you mentioned Rabin, but don't you wonder just how much Sonny told Mary?

A bump for overseas Freepers just coming home from work and opening freerepublic.com.

The John Paisley case brings the whole thing together. I will transcribe it from Final Judgment, this evening. It features Russians, the Mossad and George Bush. Have to run.

Are you really such an arrogant prig that you'd think that the CIA would waste one dollar in resources on you?.....

To: metalbird1 Are you really such an arrogant prig that you'd think that the CIA would waste one dollar in resources on you?.....

Come on. September 11 (actually September 10 at sunset) is merely the start of the 5760th year of Creation. The Sixth Millenium still has some 240 years to go.

Who has the Ark, the Ethiopians? If you believe that you had best forsake Fundamentalist Protestantism for the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church as soon as possible. Then they'll tell you the church is the "new Israel" and turn you into a messianic skeptic!

Permindex, Double-Chek, Paisley??? I'm so lost here that I wonder if I'm on the right thread...

Michael, re your Vince Foster comment re the Mossad, what was that team doing with him at the safe house apartment if they were not the killers? I might add that I believe Orlin Grabbe agrees with you that they were not, but I always wondered...

So I was right, Buxx, you are a JFK investigator groupie, otherwise you would have come back with goods you uncovered in the field and how you farmed them out---as opposed to your previously stating who all you know. Sorry it's too much for you to dip your own toes into the water.

There's one thing you've always been consistent on, adroit: completely devoid of a political view.

If it weren't for your smart remarks [not to be confused with intelligent], you wouldn't have anything to say. Tinfoil back to you, buddy.

He was a rabid anti-Semite. And a vocal Hitler apologist. Here's what I've come up with so far:

Appropo the Balfour Declaration and his involvement... Rabbi Meltzar, the head Rabbi of England at the time threatened Joe with this famous curse concerning the limiting of Jewish immigrants to Israel via the 'Declaration'. Curses went back and forth until the end where the limits were set, Jews were doomed, and all Old Joe's decendents were cursed with a 'Mita Meshuhah' (a early/violent/unusual death)

I'm assured that Kennedies are looking into what would need to occur to rescind this curse. I'm serious.

You can name all the names of the JFK investigators, but never did one thing yourself. In a word, you're a "groupie".

Here's my secret: You either can't take the heat of criticism, or are gutless...Or are both.

MB1
, please chill out a little dude on da kids. I appreciate your posts more than most. If you got the dirt on jfk, great. I dont have your information only what piper has written. Mike is my friend. i like his theory a lot. it stands until more information comes forward. he has been sent this post as well. i will ask him his thoughts at a future time. if you want to contact me off of the list please do at : pokrface@itw.com

Well, it is difficult to tell how many shots were fired as part of the crime scene, the limousine in which the President was murdered, had its seats, carpeting, and windshield stripped out and destroyed. The limo was totally rebuilt, and all evidence expunged. I wonder if Oswald would have even been charged if he had a competent attorney, and had lived to face a preliminary hearing, with no crime scene for his defense to investigate for exculpatory evidence. The Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure indicate he might never have faced trial with such evidence destroyed, although the hapless McVeigh was tried when an entire crime scene was razed, with the defense not allowed access, the rubble carted off to a military base and buried there where it remains under armed guard to this day. Somehow this federal behavior does not qualify as "kookery," but I beg to differ.

It would also be difficult to establish how many wounds the President had, or where they were for the following facts:

1. The X-rays of the President's head show a defect in the right frontal bone that includes the right eye socket, however, the autopsy photos show the President's face (including the right frontal bone and eye) completely intact. This contradiction would also have brought trouble had Oswald survived to stand trial, provided the X-rays and photographs now in the evidence pool are the same as the originals. Participants at the autopsy testified that a Naval officer exposed some of the film to the light, making it unavailable as evidence.

2. One of the autopsy surgeons testified that a non-transiting low back wound was actually probed during the autopsy, with the probe pushing up the President's chest lining, yet no non-transiting back wound made it into the final conclusions. I assume an autopsy surgeon is a trained medical observor.

3. X-Rays were repeatedly taken that night, as the surgeons were puzzled over the complete lack of metal in the President's body.

4. The chief autopsy surgeon destroyed his original notes of the autopsy, an act that could easily qualify as obstruction of justice through the destruction of critical evidence. Of course, Oswald had been shot to death, and therefore would not have a defense attorney who would have the right to see such evidence. It is my opinion that the surgeon could still have been charged with the destruction of evidence, trial or no trial. I do not think it is unreasonable to question such behavior on the part of experienced professionals who should know better.

Re: Piper's thesis, I'm trusting in your saying "it stands until more information comes forward," you are speaking for you and you alone and are not implying that it is some sort of consensus view in the JFK investigative community--because it is not. At all.

As I have said previously, Piper has done some excellent research--notwithstanding it is all synthesized from clippings and prior works, all directed to affirm his contention.

And I have also said on numerous occasions, the trick of the NWO is to spin the web to lead the impression theirs is a Jewish conspiracy. Why? Because any who might squawk over the conspiracy being that, [incorrectly] a Jewish one, may then be shouted down as anit-semitic. Pretty neat, huh? The proof? Look no farther than the membership lists of the CFR/Trilats/Bilderbergers. They're compromised of all races, religions, and cultures--quite the mixed bag, eh? So my question is: Is Piper dumb, or running a game here--agenda-driven, directed from the mindset of Spotlight driving force Willis Carto, or just Globalist favorable? [BTW, I like some of what Spotlight comes out with.]

These are but a few of the questions I might like you and/or Piper to answer. [In that you posture yourself as not being a kid, I would anticipate your honestly answering them.]

Did the Mossad have the capability to control the autopsy? [Who did control it?]

Did they have the ability to cut off communications [we're talking 1963 here] in D.C. after the assassination?

Did they have the ability to pack the Warren Commission with Eastern Establisment blue blood WASPS/CIA honchos & symps?

Did the Mossad have the ability to control the media as directed in the CIA's 75-page white paper, "Countering Criticism of the Warren Report"?

These are just ones off the top. When you and/or Piper are finished with these, I'll run up a dozen more, and we can take it from there.

Then there's this one to Piper. Did Piper only come out with "Final Judgment" after the limited hangout book by Mark Lane, "Plausible Denial", didn't fly in the public's mind? [You might recollect at that time Piper was tied in with Lane, who was naming Hunt and Frank Sturgis as part of a rogue CIA operation who did in JFK?] Or was "Final Judgment" all about to further confuse the JFK issue?

What is the basis for your saying there were no bullet fragments in JFK? [I have also read the article proposing Tippitt's body was switched with JFK's.]

i will ask him these questions
in the book it seems to me that you missed the israeli firster CIAJame Jesus angleton. He provided coverage. read Victor Ovstrosky book s on the inner working s of the mossad. you will find that they have many freelance agents, or those sympathetic to their cause. The cabal is truly not an all jewish one. it is comprised of many nobility new and old money. they have interbred between themselves that many now look like real FREAKS. latest coupling was Al Whores daughter married an andrew schiff. 2 ardent communist families coming together (andrews granddad Jacob schiff-ny, funded the Bolshevik revolution, and al whores mentor was the commie favorite ARM&Hmmer). It sick that these freaks are trying to make the ordinary-common man out to be the abnormal. any way email me an address off the list and i will send mike the questions. i would be curious to see his responses. read the latest version of 'Final judgement' it is twice as thick as the original. pokerboy www.pokerface.com

Did you just change your screen name from pokerboy to pokertoo? Projecting a new image? What gives? [Is Piper sneaking into the dialog here, by any chance? Hehehehe.]

OK, Angleton ran the Israel Desk at CIA? Your point? That shifts the conspiracy from CIA to the Mossad? Sorry, but that's a leap of research faith that is laughable. I wouldn't suggest basing any writing on that type of thinking.

The Mossad has freelance agents? So do baseball teams. Your point? Prior to the beginning of our dialog, I have said it is 'possible' the Mossad had a hand in it. But to have had the overall operational and logistical capabilities, no way. In that you are an advocate of Piper's thesis, why is it you are not able to dismiss any of my questions, or do you always like flying blind?

Piper's new edition is twice as thick? [Did you really say that?] How can I argue with that logic; after all, quantity makes the case, does it not, or is there some other way to interpret that I'm not aware of, rhetorically speaking? I don't anticipate an answer.

We're going to have to go to another thread. This is getting interesting. Just a thought before I run off to work, don't you think the Spotlight phone card was a nice touch in pinning Mc Veigh to the Oklahoma City bombing?

Rabin also was cursed on his fatal day. Curses are real and Jesus Christ refers to them in the New Testament. They also work both ways at great risk to the participants. St. Peter wanted to call down justice at one point and Christ cautioned him against it because it would also be a judgment on the person calling down the curse.

you're right,...of course you're right.....thanks....I needed some one to point out what a gutless coward I am....I feel so much cleaner now that it is in the open......and now....you can get back to those oh, so much more important things you love to do...like intimidating your wife, or beating the dog...or bruising heads of lettuce at the super market...(when no one is looking)........but you know what MB1?.....Jesus loves you and so do I...peace dude......

Firstly RT, how did you decide to post your reply to pokerboy [and me]? Did you flip a coin and pokerboy won out over pokertoo? [Folks do try to be clever, don't they?]

Careful in dissing the Spotlight; without doubt you know that's the home turf of your boy Piper. While I'm not familiar with what you're talking about insofar as McVeigh and a phone card scenario [but wasn't the Spotlight the recipient of a fax forewarning of a federal facility bombing?], as I take it, it does seem to suggest what I am saying about the Spotlight: Some truth here; some spin there.

Buxx, I don't pick on the undefendable, and am even mindful not to squeeze on the tomatoes. Peace back at you.

Pokerface is the web site, then there is poker too and pokerboy. The three faces of poker.

Just finished reading the book by Stephen Jones about the Oklahoma bombing. One of the pieces of evidence was a phone card that was supposedly used by Mc Veigh in his transaction around getting materials for the bomb and a motel room call. It was a Spotlight phone card. Everyone knows that it is very easy to use someone else's phone card and there is no documentation required to buy one. In tracing the calls, Mc Veigh had a clear alibi on at least one of the calls that could be traced. The prosecution followed with the claim that that call happened during a computer glitch. (Which you have to admit is pretty coincidental.)

I am not dissing Spotlight. I find it verrrry interesting, that that was the contentious phone card used. If Mc Veigh were a patsy, would that not be an interesting prop to seal his fate?

Read Jones' book. I believe that there were two explosions though. And I wish he told us more about Mr. Northrup.

pokerboy replies, then follows up that post as pokertoo? C'mon, RT, this 'ain't' WWF. Pull off your blinders. The Piper forgot who he met and is waxing curious. {Note two posts of theirs tugging to get my e.}

That was the result of interviews with the X-Ray technicians and some of the surgeons present at autopsy. They could find no metal after many X-rays were taken. I can provide complete quotes and cite the sources once I am re-united with my library. I am presently away from home on a work assignment.

The main problem the surgeons had was with the back wound that was later switched to a transiting neck wound so the "Single Bullet THEORY" (as opposed to "Single Bullet FACT")could be constructed as the Warren Commission had only three shell casings from the Mannlicher-Carcano CARBINE (not a RIFLE). The wound was probed, and it was shallow and non-transiting (no exit), but no bullet was in Kennedy's body. Something went in, but did not come out. This prompted chief surgeon, Commander James Humes (USN) to telephone Parkland Hospital in Dallas to ask one of the trauma surgeons who treated JFK: "Did you make any wounds in the back?"

Now, the "magic bullet" was recovered from A stretcher in Parkland. That bullet, of course, was as pristine as if it had been fired into a ballistics lab water tank, ready and waiting to be matched with two objects of evidence: 1. The non-transiting back wound on JFK, with the explanation that the bullet was worked out of his body through CPR massage. 2. The Mannlicher-Carcano carbine. However, this would only fit if the ORIGINAL "three shots/three hits" scenario could have held up, but the wounding of James Tague ruined that scenario. The back wound was raised to the neck and made into a through-and-through wound, so the bullet could make all of Connally's wounds, and produce a "three shots/two hits/one miss" scenario.

Whoever perpetrated this crime was not careful. Their X-rays in no way match the autopsy photographs of Kennedy's body. Apparently they had no worries, however, as this "evidence" has held up with no questioning from the proper authorities, provided there ARE such things as "proper" authorities in this country today.

I never wrote that I thought JFK's body was switched with Tippet's. In fact, I never heard of such a theory, and do not believe it. Saying that, I am still tired of how the Tippet shooting is used as "proof" that LHO killed Kennedy. What kind of logic is this? Mr. B and Mr. C were killed the same day. We claim to have evidence (there is a dispute about what kind of shell casings were found at the Tippet murder scene) that Mr. A killed Mr. C. Since Mr. B was killed on the same day as Mr. C, and we say Mr. A killed Mr. C, therefore, Mr. A killed Mr. B, too.

We must not walk, but run from Dubya, if we are ever going to end this dark era that began when the Gipper's mind and life force started to fade in the late Eighties and the Bushes and the Clintons gained global power.

One more thing... I've had doubts about Sonny Bono's death, since the day it happened. I believe he was a genuine, and good man... who knew all about Clinton's corruption & agenda. Did anyone else notice in the documentary "Waco:Rules of Engagement" - Sonny Bono was one congressmen during the Waco hearings- and as one of the Waco survivors described the horrible massacre, Sonny was obviously moved.. and he wiped tears from his eyes...? Maybe he was going to expose the truth about Clinton (like so many other people on the Body Count) As a very popular, cultural icon... he would've been a big threat to the Clintons, if he was planning to blow the whistle on them.

As a very popular, cultural icon... he would've been a big threat to the Clintons, if he was planning to blow the whistle on them.

I agree with you. (surprise!) He was a big threat -- in part, because he was a real person. He was probably reacting just as you or I would to the Washington snakepit and his celebrity status made him all but untouchable -- short of death.

You know, the murder of Sonny Bono may just mark the moment when our vaunted GOP Congress finally lost what little spine it had. When faced with the choice of their country or their life, they all opted to save their own miserable hides and to go along to get along with the dark, sinister, and murderous power that now, apparently, runs this country.

Hey, I can't read any posts past #110 on my Server-- any chance of y'all starting a new thread on this fascinating topic?

Ticonderoga has put in for a request that a second thread be started, and likewise reposting the Chamish piece, as he can't get to the end of the replies; rubbertramp, if I am remembering correctly, has also asked the same be done, so, wudja?

Can't blame pokerboy. I want to know who you are too. I'll show you mine, if you'll show me yours. I'm just a lowly citizen though. Echelon would be bored with me.

Truth is, I don't think I'm all that well known, or even especially known. It's the people I've met, though not all that many--but many of the right ones, and also some of the research I've done.

you wrote " Did you just change your screen name from pokerboy to pokertoo? Projecting a new image? What gives? [Is Piper sneaking into the dialog here, by any chance? Hehehehe.] "

as for the screen name change, guess my band mate dennis had his screen name up on the bands computer. hey in todays day and age its good to have multiple sources to get onto the net. also been away on vacation. this email is being sent to mike for his input. if you email privately to me(use a hotmail, or hushmail account if you would like) and i will forward along any comments mike may have

OK, Angleton ran the Israel Desk at CIA? Your point? That shifts the conspiracy from CIA to the Mossad? Sorry, but that's a leap of research faith that is laughable. I wouldn't suggest basing any writing on that type of thinking.

in response to this, is that mike says that multiple parties that have common interests in seeing JFK terminated with prejudice came together to make it happen. the massod were key players. The Mossad has freelance agents? So do baseball teams. Your point? Prior to the beginning of our dialog, I have said it is 'possible' the Mossad had a hand in it. But to have had the overall operational and logistical capabilities, no way. In that you are an advocate of Piper's thesis, why is it you are not able to dismiss any of my questions, or do you always like flying blind?

Me thinks you have not read mikes book otherwise you would have the answers to your question. read first then get back to me..