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Tactical Briefs #10, October 1998
Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition
For home defense, a shotgun is superior to a handgun in terms of being able to stop a violent intruder as quickly as possible. A reliable, well-made, pump-action shotgun can usually be purchased for less than the cost of a handgun of comparable quality. Also, inexpensive birdshot ammunition, typically used for training applications, is about three-fourths the cost, round for round, of comparable handgun ammunition.
Most people typically choose a shotgun for home defense for one of three general reasons: 1) to minimize wall penetration to reduce the danger to innocent third parties in case of a missed shot, 2) to maximize wound trauma to stop a vicious assailant as quickly as possible, or 3) because a shotgun does not require as much skill as a handgun to put lead on target.
If you're considering a shotgun for home defense or already have one, we suggest you give some serious thought to attending a one or two day "defensive shotgun" training course from a reputable shooting school. (We have a few schools listed on our Links page.) It's one thing to be armed with a well-equipped, high-tech shotgun and premium personal defense ammunition, but if you're not a skilled shotgun operator, you're the weakest link in your last-ditch home defense weapon system.
Shotgun Pellet Wound Ballistics
A shotgun pellet produces wound trauma by crushing the tissue it comes into direct contact with as it penetrates. In order to produce wound trauma that will be effective in quickly stopping an attacker, the pellets must penetrate his body deeply enough to be able to pass through a vital cardiovascular structure and cause rapid fatal hemorrhage to quickly deprive the brain of oxygenated blood needed to maintain consciousness.Shotgun pellets are classified into two general categories: 1) birdshot, of which individual pellets are typically less than .20 caliber in diameter, and 2) buckshot, which varies in diameter from .24 caliber to .36 caliber.
Table 1 and Table 2 list nominal size and weight information about lead birdshot and buckshot, respectively.
Table 1. Lead Birdshot
Shot
NumberPellet Diameter
(Inches)Average Pellet
Weight (Grains)Approximate # of
Pellets per Ounce12 .05 .18 2385 11 .06 .25 1750 9 .08 .75 585 8 1/2 .085 .88 485 8 .09 1.07 410 7 1/2 .095 1.25 350 6 .11 1.95 225 5 .12 2.58 170 4 .13 3.24 135 2 .15 4.86 90 BB .18 8.75 50 Table 2. Lead Buckshot
Shot
NumberPellet Diameter
(Inches)Average Pellet
Weight (Grains)4 .24 20.6 3 .25 23.4 2 .27 29.4 1 .30 40.0 0 .32 48.3 00 .33 53.8 000 .36 68.0 Birdshot, because of its small size, does not have the mass and sectional density to penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage critical blood distribution organs. Although birdshot can destroy a great volume of tissue at close range, the permanent crush cavity is usually less than 6 inches deep, and this is not deep enough to reliably include the heart or great blood vessels of the abdomen. A gruesome, shallow wound in the torso does not guarantee a quick stop, especially if the bad guy is chemically intoxicated or psychotic. If the tissue crushed by the pellets does not include a vital cardiovascular structure there's no reason for it to be an effective wound.
Many people load their shotguns with birdshot, usually #6 shot or smaller, to minimize interior wall penetration. Number 6 lead birdshot, when propelled at 1300 fps, has a maximum penetration depth potential of about 5 inches in standard ordnance gelatin. Not all of the pellets penetrate this deeply however; most of the shot will penetrate about 4 inches.
Federal Personal Defense Shotshell
Federal Cartridge Company offers reduced recoil Personal Defense Shotshells in 12 gauge and 20 gauge. Both are loaded with #2 lead birdshot. According to Federal's 1998 catalog, the shotshells propel their pellet payloads at a velocity of 1140 fps.(Note: We tested terminal performance of the 12 gauge Federal Personal Defense Shotshell, and published our results in Tactical Briefs, January 1999. Click here to read our product review.)
12 Gauge Shotshell Ammunition
For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.
In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.
For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.
Second best choice is Winchester's 2 ¾-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot. For those of you who are concerned about a tight shot pattern, this shotshell will probably give you the best patterning results in number 1 buck. This load may not be a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive.
Third choice is any standard or reduced recoil 2 ¾-inch #00 lead buckshot load from Winchester, Remington or Federal.
If you choose a reduced recoil load or any load containing hardened Magnum #00 buckshot you increase the risk of over-penetration because these innovations assist in maintaining pellet shape integrity. Round pellets have better sectional density for deeper penetration than deformed pellets.
Fourth choice is any 2 ¾-inch Magnum shotshell that is loaded with hardened, plated and buffered #4 buckshot. The Magnum cartridge has the lowest velocity, and the lower velocity will help to minimize pellet deformation on impact. The hardened buckshot and buffering granules also help to minimize pellet deformation too. These three innovations help to maximize pellet penetration. Number 4 hardened buckshot is a marginal performer. Some of the hardened buckshot will penetrate at least 12 inches deep and some will not.
20 Gauge Shotshell Ammunition Recommendations
We're unaware of any ammunition company who offers a 20 gauge shotshell that is loaded with #1 buckshot. The largest shot size commercially available that we know of is number 2 buck.From a strict wound ballistics standpoint, we feel the Federal Classic 3-inch 20 gauge Magnum number 2 buckshot cartridge is the best choice. It contains 18 pellets of number 2 buckshot in a plastic shotcup with granulated plastic shot buffer.
However, the Federal Classic load might produce too much recoil for some people. Given this consideration, Remington's Premier Buckshot 2 ¾-inch 20 gauge number 3 buckshot cartridge is the next best choice. This load contains 20 pieces of nickel-plated, hardened lead shot that is buffered to reduce pellet deformation from post ignition acceleration and terminal impact. The Remington buckshot load will probably produce the tightest shot patterns in 20 gauge shotguns.
Third place is Winchester's 3-inch 20 gauge Magnum number 3 buckshot cartridge, which contains 24 pieces of buffered, copper-plated, hardened lead shot.
Shotgun Slugs, Flechettes and Exotic Ammunition for Home Defense?
Unless you live on acreage and anticipate engaging bad guys at distances beyond 25 yards, shotgun slugs are not a good choice for home defense, because of their enormous capability to over-penetrate a human body and common building materials.Some shotgun cartridges are loaded with flechettes. These are small, steel, pointed dart-like projectiles with aft stabilization fins, and are commonly referred to as "nails with tails." The low cross sectional area of a single flechette, combined with the small amount of flechettes that can be loaded into a shotshell, makes them an inferior choice for home defense when compared to buckshot.
Also, according to Second Chance Body Armor Company, flechettes are not effective against soft body armor, if this is a particular mission requirement for your ammunition. Steel shot also is ineffective against soft body armor.
There are other various exotic shotshells that are best classified as gimmicks. These include rubber buckshot, bean bags, steel washers, rock salt, "Dragon's Breath," bird bombs, ceramic slugs, "bolo" projectiles and so on. The efficacy of these loads is questionable at best, and we advise you to avoid them altogether for this simple reason.
Summary
With the right load, a shotgun can be very effective in quickly stopping the deadly violence being perpetrated by a criminal who's invaded your home.If you're worried that a missed shot might penetrate through a wall and harm others, load your shotgun so that the first one or two cartridges to be fired is number 6 or smaller birdshot, followed by standard lead #1 buckshot (12 gauge) or #3 buckshot (20 gauge). If your first shot misses, the birdshot is less likely to endanger innocent lives outside the room. If your first shot fails to stop the attacker, you can immediately follow-up with more potent ammunition.
With birdshot you are wise to keep in mind that your gunfire has the potential to NOT PRODUCE an effective wound. Do not expect birdshot to have any decisive effect.
Number 1 buckshot has the potential to produce more effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck, without the accompanying risk of over-penetration. The IWBA believes, with very good reason, that number 1 buckshot is the shotshell load of choice for quickly stopping deadly criminal violence.
End Notes
The term "Magnum" when applied to shotshells means "more shot." Magnum shotshells usually propel their pellets at a lower velocity than a standard shotshell.Shotgun barrel length does not affect our shotshell recommendions.
References
Cotey, Gus J.: "Number 1 Buckshot, the Number 1 Choice." Wound Ballistics Review, 2(4), 10-18, 1996.MacPherson, Duncan: "Technical Comment on Buckshot Loads." Wound Ballistics Review, 2(4), 19-21, 1996.
MacPherson, Duncan: Bullet Penetration, Ballistic Publications, El Segundo, California, 1994.
DiMaio, Vincent J.M.: Gunshot Wounds, Elsevier Science Publishing Co., Inc., New York, New York, 1985, pp. 163-208.
At all times, please remember: there are responsiblities that go along with the right to own a firearm. Learn and observe safe handling and storage practices.
Listen to TOM GRESHAM'S GUN TALK on the internet, live, from 2:06 til 5:00PM (Eastern Time) on Sundays.
Reload: The National Reloading Manufacturers Association
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Thanks & bump!
Even though I love my 1911, I would also recommend a pump shotgun for home defense. What about subguns, The courts don't like them, but how efective are they ?
While I agree with the author that using a 12 guage slug is not recommended for home defense, I would add that I have taken several deer with such ammo. No deer ever required a second shot, or traveled more than 20 yards after being shot - most much less - and not once did the slug exit the body cavity of the deer. All formed a "lump" just under the skin on the off-side.
I would suggest that the torso of a full-grown deer and that of a man provide roughly equal density and depth.
What about subguns, The courts don't like them, but how efective are they ?
You'll have to ask someone who lives on the coast, here in the heartland we don't much have to protect ourselves from subs.
On a more serious note, I'm afraid I'm uncertain what you're calling a "subgun." I also have zilch experience with arms that the courts would frown on (submachine guns, sawed-off shotguns, etc.) Just not my cup of tea when "normal" arms are quite suitable.
Thanks for the article, but I disagree with the author's conclusion that birdshot would not penetrate deeply enough to stop a hyped-up drug addict. While it is true that birdshot will not penetrate as deeply because each pellet has less mass, I would argue that the larger area of impact would have the effect of killing the bad guy just as dead. I think that he is making the assumption that a shot inside your house would in the 15-25 yard range, but in fact most houses are much smaller than that. In fact the maximum free shot zone inside my house is about 12 yards, wall to wall. The typical range inside your house will probably be less than 5 yards. At this range birdshot will be just as effective as buckshot and maybe would be an even better choice for short range protection.
While I agree with the author that using a 12 guage slug is not recommended for home defense, I would add that I have taken several deer with such ammo.
The rural county where I live is still sufficiently populated that local deer hunting is designated shotgun-only. (Muzzleloaders and Bow OK in their season, just no HP rifle.) Slugs work quite well on deer.
Because I am in a rural area, my home defense load differs than the author suggests. My first round is #6 birdshot, but then I alternate slugs & 00 buck. Hope I never have to use any of it.
As a scout in VN I carried a pump 12 gage and I can assure you that 00 buck will stop a man in a heartbeat and make a believer out of anyone with him.
I bought a Remington 1100 12-gauge shotgun with a slug barrel, but have yet to take it to a range for practice. With the slug barrel, what is the best cartridge to use? The dealer said it would handle .50 cal slugs. Does that sound right?
I would agree with you that "inside the house" ranges are more likely measured in feet rather than yards. At such distances bird shot can produce what police call "rat-hole wounds" clean through a torso, however bird shot as #1 shell followed by buckshot is the best loading for those who like to be sure.
Because of the extreamly close ranges involved, Mr. Green's advice with regard to training is very well taken as weapons retention is of paramont importance. In all, an excelent post filled with good advice.
Regards,
GtG
If you reload, I am told that a Teflon wrapper filled with hardened needle bearings is even effective against standard body armor .
With the slug barrel, what is the best cartridge to use? The dealer said it would handle .50 cal slugs. Does that sound right?
No, with a 12 gage slug barrel you use 12 gage slugs. All a "slug" barrel is is a rifled shotgun barrel. The twist gives the slug more accuracy with distance. "Normal" shotgun barrels don't have rifling because it has no benefit on shot and the shot will damage the rifling.
Those would be "sabot" slugs in which the projectile (slug) is smaller then bore size and is carried by a "sabot" or "shoe". The sabot is typically plastic and serves to carry the slug thru the barrel after which it drops off and the slug continues its flight. Slug barrels for use with sabot ammunition are rifled to impart spin to the sabot/projectile while in the barrel and therefore are not suitable for use with rifled (full caliber)slugs or shot cartriges. The later because the rifled barrel disrupts the shot pattern, distorts the individul shot pellets, and also because it has no choke.
Regards,
GtG
Thanks for an excellent post.
While I agree that birdshot would stop near anybody at a close range. I would add that the buck shot would be much more effective if you need to shoot though a hollow door or wall.
Regards
If you're considering a shotgun for home defense or already have one, we suggest you give some serious thought to attending a one or two day "defensive shotgun" training course from a reputable shooting school. (We have a few schools listed on our Links page.) It's one thing to be armed with a well-equipped, high-tech shotgun and premium personal defense ammunition, but if you're not a skilled shotgun operator, you're the weakest link in your last-ditch home defense weapon system.
Does playing a lot of Doom count? :-)
Thanks for the post. Very educational!
Since others on this thread have already broached the subject, I would add that I shot one deer with #8 birdshot at no more than 7 yds. A reflex shot, as I was birdhunting during deer season and the deer jumped up right in front of me. The hit was right at the junction of the neck and the skull. The deer was dead before it hit the ground.
Modern shot loads at that range, because of the plastic cup, are still in a "slug" mode and work much the same way. However, I would not count on such a shot if I were defending my home and family.
There are a few things your post neglected to address.
1. Due to a 12 ga. pumps length, DO NOT EVER go to investigate a noise you think an intruder made. You risk going around a corner and having the intruder grab the barrel as it proceeds you. Instead, shuck a shell in the chamber and loudly announce that you are armed and have called the police and sit tight. The intruder will flee post haste. DO NOT SHOOT at a fleeing intruder unless you want a close up view of the justice system.
2.Ballistic tests are all well and good, except that they are usualy done at 25, 30, 40 or 50 yards. In your home, unless you live in a huge mansion, you will be firing at less than 25 FEET. Even #6 shot will put a soft ball sized hole through drywall at that range. Think of what's on the other side of that wall. Bigger shot will carry on to the wall on the other side of the room.
A good source of home defense tips can be had by reading the books by Massad Ayoob.
I don't think body armor will do much in the way of protection against a either a slug or a rifle bullet. From all I have read, cloth body armor is designed to protect the wearer against pistol rounds traveling at or near the sonic range, but will not protect against a hyper-velocity rifle bullet or a large, high-energy slug. Even if it did provide protection against penetration by buckshot or bitdshot at close range, the wearer would fee as if he were just hit with a sledge hammer and would probably suffer broken bones and possibly severe blunt trauma to his internal organs.
In short, he ain't getting up without help, go to the next target.
Ok, I see that the barrel isrifled. What you are saying then is I should buy slug ammo that is designed for rifled barrels (for the twist) so I don't damage the rifling with bird/buckshot? I would like to use it for home protection, but this means that I would have to either get a different barrel or a non-rifled shotgun to shoot bird/buckshot?
Sorry if the questions sound like I don't know what the heck I am talking about. The only gun I have fired was in the military - marksman rating on the M-16. I want to go deer-hunting this fall, so I think perhaps I should keep the slug barrel and buy a cheap pump shotgun (my Remington 1100 is an automatic with an extended loader - holds 10 shells).
Excellent points. At home a shotgun is purely defensive; not offensive. Unless you hear someone you love screaming wait for the bad guy to come to you.
I would add, although I shouldn't have to, don't shoot at anything you are not sure about. That's the way loved ones die.
Yes, you need a barrel for shot and a separate barrel for slugs designed for a slug barrel. You can buy slugs for a smooth bore barrel, so be careful. Also, you said you had an extended tube so that you can hold 10 rounds. Great for defense, but illegal for many types of hunting, check with the state wildlife resourses agency before you take this gun out hunting.
Interesting post. An ugly trick I learned 35 years ago is to open the shotgun cartridge and fill it with melted parafin/wax. It makes a slug that disintergrates on impact.
In short, he ain't getting up without help
I don't want him getting up at all. Too many legal complications. Being satisfied with severe wounds is too dangerous to the law abiding. Just my take.
Tactical briefs is an excellent website and is full of lots of no BS advice. Thanks for posting.
The only thing that has been glossed over here is that you need to have some experience with low/no light conditions.
Chances are the bad guys are going to come at night.
I have mounted one of Surefire's flashlights directly to my pumpgun.
After all it is pretty hard to hold a light and longarm at the same time (and still have a hand free to call the cops).
There are two types of shotgun slug available. The older type slug is often called a "rifled" slug because the outside cylinderical surface has grooves cast into it that resemble a rifled barrel. These slugs are full caliber (approx. .7" o.d.) and are used in a smooth bore barrel, this barrel may also be used with shot shells. Sabot slugs are smaller diameter then bore size and are carried thru the barrel by a "sabot" which falls off as the slug clears the barrel. Sabot slugs may be shot through a smooth bore barrel but they will not deliver the accuracy that they are capable of when used with a rifled barrel. Therefore, your shotgun, with the rifled barrel should be used with "Sabot" slugs only. If you desire to shoot shot shells (either bird or buck) buy a second, smooth bored barrel with an appropriate choke.
A second barrel will cost less then a second shotgun.
Regards,
GtG
PS Shooting shot shells through your current rifled barrel will not damage the barrel. You will not get a good shot pattern though since some of the shot will be deformed as it passes down the barrel and thus will not fly true. Also your current barrel has no choke and thus the shot will diverge quicker after it leaves the barrel. These factors will reduce accuracy with shot shells.
An ugly trick I learned 35 years ago is to open the shotgun cartridge and fill it with melted parafin/wax. It makes a slug that disintergrates on impact.
I've heard that if you mix in a spoon full of #12 shot (nearly dust) it is even worse then ugly, it holds together till it hits then spreads out like a bad dream.
Regards,
GtG
I agree
Up Close and personal nothing works like a 12 ga. shotgun with 00 buckshot, or shot of your choice. I keep my Rem.1100 and 870 shotguns loaded and ready (just in case). I also have an old stagecoach shotgun 12ga. double barrel sidexside. I love this shotgun the barrels are 18 1/4" long with outside hammers and 2 triggers, nice scroll work too. I also keep this handy (just in case.
Not to mention my 1911.
We need to fight for our RIGHTS. Lets not get caught belly up without a fight.
Yeah the stuff I was using was bird shot. I meant to indicate that the idea was to leave the shot in the shell and add paraffin.
Look, they named a thread after you.
(Actually, I didn't want you to miss it).
EXCELLENT POST
My perspective after forty years of shotgunning and 25 years of medical practice is:
A shotgun is an extremely intimidating weapon. No sound is more frightening to a burglar in a dark house than the sound of a pump shotgun being cycled. Instant brown shorts in my series of one.
I've never shot a human with a shotgun but I've seen hundreds of human shotgun wounds varying from a .410 at close range up to a 10 guage.
People, it is not pretty!! Even a .410 can be lethal with bird shot. A single pellet can't cause much damge, but if you get a full load head on, it's like a chainsaw.
In my wild youth, I shot everything from birds to cows with shotguns. A good solid hit at 20 yards or less with birdshot will take down a full-grown cow. Maybe not a clean kill, but a knockdown.
I have all kinds of guns from .22's to 10 guages. Beside my bed for home defense is a pump 12 guage Remington 870. My AR-15 which I dearly love does not even compare.
Nita, have you bought a shotgun for Y2K yet?
Get a used Remington 870 and a case of #4 buckshot. A .22 rifle and 1000 round of LR would be nice too.
I got started by using my shotgun to keep the other kids from stealing my pacifiers.
;-)
"Because I am in a rural area, my home defense load differs than the author suggests. My first round is #6 birdshot, but then I alternate slugs & 00 buck. Hope I never have to use any of it."
I seem to recall a post from another thread here on FR quoting an early 20th-century big game hunter who often was charged with hunting down man-eating jaguars. He advocated (I believe) No. 1 buckshot as having the best overall stopping power. He was quoted as saying in that situation, you typically only got one shot.
Dont most police forces use #4 buckshot?
BTW, I just bought 2 cases of clay targets and a skeet thrower. The kids think we're just gonna be out having some fun; Momma has other motives. I think I figured out a way to hone their shooting skills in case those pesky Y2k looters come around. After all, my life might depend on how well they can shoot!
My local police are carrying 00 buck , with slugs availible. I don't know how typical that is, though.
Can't you take that 12 gauge to your local gun smith to take a good look at it. If you use the WRONG ammunition you can
end up with a blown up gun, or worse-----you could loose an
eye or your life, if you don't use the right stuff.
Don't take a chance with your life or possibly another person.
bump
I got started by using my shotgun to keep the other kids from stealing my pacifiers.
ROTFLMAO
Everyone thanks for all the help. Just to be sure I'll take it to a local "smith" or gun shop to be sure. Perhaps I'll pick up that 2nd 12-gauge and a .22 while I am at it. God, I love my rights.
Bump! Solid info.
I don't remember "cow" season. What time of year does it come around?
Turn the flashlight on, lay it on the floor pointing in the direction they are going to come from and get down off to the side. If you have the light mounted to your gun and the intruder fires at the light, you are going to be hit. If the light is in front of your position with you off to the side, you will be able to see him, but he will be unable to see you because of the light and you will be able to pick him off.
I love this place!!!
It was from lurking and reading earlier posts on this subject that lead me to register here, join Gun Owners of America, the NRA and purchase my Mossberg 500. 300 Winmag long gun is next.
Thanks to all who impart their knowledge and wisdom to the rest. I've learned more here than surfing the net on my own.
with folk like you my hopes for this republic soar.
A solid article with lots of good info.
The only thing I disagree with is the rap on "bolo" ammo.
I have tested Strung Buck on 5 gallon PDPE containers filled with water.
It cut them in half at 15 paces.
Also the "Dragon Breath" ammo is not intended for interior home defense. I can tell you from personal experience it would certainly devastate attackers outdoors.
Regards,
L
A buddy and I used to reload "super buckshot." which we made by putting .44 cal. balls for his cap-and-ball revolver in the hulls, with corn starch as a buffer. Now, there was a load!
Sounds too complicated to me.
My shotgun mounted flashlight has a 'momentary' switch and is blindingly bright.
We get out and practice, at night (I love living in the country!). We set up water filled milk jugs on fence posts around the property.
I can 'lite on' acquire, fire, and 'lite out' in half the time it takes to read this sentence.
I heard of one load that was 6 .38 caliber JHP in the same buffer.
The guy said everyone of them expanded in water. That would make a real mess.
Regards,
L
Oh, and by the way, while most buckshot will not penetrate soft body armor, sabot rounds will.
Also, the Federal Copper solids will go through both sides of Class III body armor like poop through a goose.
L
Inside a small house, tight corners, short shooting distances - sounds like pistol work to me.
I heard of one load that was 6 .38 caliber JHP in the same buffer.
A truly wicked grin sits on my face; that sounds good. Another payload for the mighty 12 is a stack of pennies, which is gruesome at close range.
The buddy in question coined the phrase, "He-man reloading," which consisted of exceeding the max recommmended load a tenth of a grain at a time until the primers were melded into the cases; then he would back down a tenth of a grain and use that as his load.
DISCLAIMER: BOYS AND GIRLS, DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!
He was still alive last time I saw him (11 years ago), but had brass fragments in his nose and cheek from his 9mm reloads with 50% overcharges.
I read "Shotguns by Keith" by Elmer Keith a couple years ago.
A couple friends and I became intrigued with the idea of 'strung buck' (good name-I forget what he called it). We tried reloading all sorts of different iterations (using 00buck and thin bare copper wire)- three sets of three wired together, all nine balls wired together, etc. They punched some very interesting holes in paper, and we found they made a very wicked sound screaming downrange.
The best load was all nine pellets tied together with about two inches of between each pellet and the main advantage was they kept tight groups out to extreme ranges(50 yards+) .
The disadvantage was they sucked to string up and reload.
Once I got the barrel on my shotgun 'vang-comped' it throws patterns tight enough (with federal 00buck law enforcement rounds) it has since made strung buck obsolete.
Have not played with the bolo rounds yet, just can't part with the cash.
This is an excellent article - thanks for posting it. Does anyone have any advice on whether or not getting a pistol-grip pump shotgun is a good or bad thing? I have a mossberg and the barrel must be 3 feet long - it would be a bear to bring around inside my house. I was thinking something shorter might be a little easier to handle if I ever needed it for that purpose.
Click, boom
If you have a Mossberg 500, you can by an 18 inch barrel right from the factory for around a hundred bucks or so.
I personally don't like pistol grips on shotguns as I find it throws my sight picture off. I shoot rifles a lot, so I like to have the same feel every time I throw something up to my shoulder.
If you have the means, a new Mossberg 500 is less than 300 bucks, all set up with a short barrel and ghost ring sights.
Hope that helps.
L
Some really fun and exotic shotgun ammo used to be available from Crown Specialty, but they are out of business.
I don't have source for them these days. Glad I stocked up when I had the opportunity.
I only fired enough of the stuff to get an idea of how well they worked.
Dragon Breath is truly awesome stuff. It throws a huge 1000 degree fireball about 75 yards. I wish I could get some more. Imagine the effect on a bunch of rioters....
Regards,
L
There was a guy at the last gun show selling the exotic shotgun rounds.
I neglected because of the price.
Next time maybe. Sounds like I need some Dragon Breath for the next nighttime live fire demo at the house.
I guess they would be excellent for what I jokingly refer to as neighbor suppression.
Do you know if those would be safe in a ported barrel? (I am not worried about the barrel, but the operator)
For truly wicked 12-guage ammo, try:
Their on-line catalog doesn't seem to be totally up and running, but they have a number you can call to get one of their catalogs via mail for free.
I don't think I would fire Dragon Breath out of a ported barrel, at least not until I had done it from a rest and pulled a string attached to the trigger anyway.
Buy some, and give it a try.
Believe me, the psychological effects on a crowd of unruly people would be pretty intense I think.
Regards,
L
Thanks man!
I will bop on over there and check it out.
Regards,
L
Sit tight, time is on you side. You are the last line of defense for your family. You will not do any one a favor by playing Rambo and trying to jump shoot a junkie and getting yourself killed of injured. Your armed, you can afford to wait for reinforcements.
No problemo.
12 GA. "PIRANHA"
This 12 GA. round contains dozens of razor sharp steel tacks that blast out at high velocity which virtually guarantees that there will be no response from the perpetrator. Each round is buffed with #12 shot thus creating a double shock to the wound area. Absolutely will not harm your shotgun. To be used no closer than 10 feet and no further than 50 feet. 2 3/4" round
ORDER # G12-021 3 UNITS PER PACKAGE ....... $13.99
That's just the first entry, and there are 22 different specialty shotgun rounds in the catalog I got in the mail from them.
I see your interested in hunting. Hunters Safety Courses are free in my state. You really learn alot, it's ten hours in my state. The time is well worth it for the wealth of knowledge that you derive. I took the course with our son.
"Also, the Federal Copper solids will go through both sides of Class III body armor like poop through a goose."
I assume this is out of a rifled barrel?
When I try sabots out of the smoothbore they tumble and leave an 'hourglass' shaped hole in the target and suppose I would have low confidence thay are acting like they would need to.
thanks
Anyone who has fired a "stack of pennies" out of a 12 gauge shotgun, please let me know how you did this. Yep, sort of a "loaded" question. Backbored barrels, if I remember correctly, are approximately .730", maybe .740". MY PENNIES are, measured with vernier caliper, .751", and they won't go down the barrel of my Browning, with backbored barrels, from the chamber end. I'm reloading some trap shells right now, and thought I'd try something different (no, not for trap!). I've heard it said before, but really wonder if it's been done, now. MAYBE through a 10 gauge, but I don't have one of those. Ben
BenB, maybe Lurker meant dimes. Remember Billy the Kid?
Conservative Gun Control poll, one comment was "Hey, who let the conservative in at AOL? No, it's not my poll, I just found it...
You're both correct. I meant dimes in 12 gauge. My friend used them in his single-shot 12 gauge, which he sawed off to 18 1/2 inches and used as a home defense and car gun.
Allow me to come to his defense. He was not an idiot, but a man who wanted more out of every weapon he owned, so he pushed the envelope until he saw signs of excessively high pressure.
His only mistake was in the choice of his first reloading partner (I was his second.) The first fool overcharged his 9mm loads by 50%, which obviously blew the cases out where they were unsupported by the barrel.
In a "combat situation" (read any armed confrontation), the shotgun and subguns have comparable ranges, and approximately the same area of effect. The venerable 12 guage pump was used to great effect in the trenches of WWI, before the invention of the subgun, and my nod goes to the shotgun for ease of maintenance and handling, altho that's just a personal opinion. I doubt you will find anything more difinitive on this question than opinion at any rate.
the infowarrior
Uhh, you can't use that extended magazine for hunting ImaGraftedBranch. Whoever sold you that particular firearm obviously didn't take the time to find out what you wanted, and the purposes for which you were buying a firearm. A shotgun with a rifled slug barrel and a 10 round magazine is next to worthless, as it really can't be used for the field (hunting), nor is it appropriate for home defense. Sorry to have to tell you that, but it is true.
the infowarrior
Ahh, another 870 fan. Good shotgun, mine's a Police magnum, decked out, with light. I favor the #4 buck as well.
I guess I had heard about that with dimes through a 12 gauge before... just didn't click. I just wish dimes were cheaper.... Haha. Gets expensive shooting dimes out of a shotgun! What, a buck and a half worth of shot per shot? Yikes. As far as using them in a defensive round, I'd never even consider it. I'd say factory is the only way to go, too. Ben
We
tried reloading all sorts of different iterations (using 00buck and thin bare copper wire)- three sets of three wired
together, all nine balls wired together, etc....
The disadvantage was they sucked to string up and reload.
I haven't the foggiest idea how to string 00 buck on a wire. Would using split shot (from my fishing tackle box) be any easier???
We never tried split shot, but I would guess the lead would be too soft (may not penetrate well?). Try it though, I don't think it would hurt anything.
I am draftsman at a shop with a tool room. I have access to the machines, one of which is a small arbor press. We used a sewing needle to make a hole for the copper wire strung em up like a necklace.
We had problems with the pellets bunching up on the ends of the wire (when fired), so we ended up tying knots in the wire to keep the pellets in place.
have fun and be safe!
I should elaborate. I never made the "dime load" with my friend, he whipped these up with his first reloading partner. I did see him shoot them; however, I don't recommend reloads of any kind for defense ammunition for legal reasons.
Together we reloaded "super buckshot" (with .44 cal. balls as pellets) and an early version of the sabot slug, using a cast .50 cal conical slug as the payload. (This wasn't very accurate.) Another load was the "shredder," which was a 3" magnum shell with 1 7/8 oz. of #8 shot. We also made "duplex" shells with two different shot sizes as payloads, years before Remington offered them as factory loads.
I use alot of different ammo for defense, but in shotguns I generally use Federal Tactical Buckshot and Remington 3" Magnum Slugger slugs.
Sit tight, time is on you side. You are the last line of defense for your family. You will not do any one a favor by playing Rambo and trying to jump shoot a junkie and getting yourself killed of injured. Your armed, you can afford to wait for reinforcements.
A friend of mine, who travelled a lot, lived out in the country where police response was really slow (except by DC standards). His wife was afraid of being alone out there. He did two things: He took her to a skeet range and taught her how to shoot a shotgun; and, since she was really reluctant to kill anyone, he provided her with a 5 shot 12-ga pump shotgun with his own custom loads.
Round #1 had all the shot taken out of it - a blank. If she heard someone moveing around outside the house, she was to stick the shotgun out the window and pull the trigger. If there was no one there, or if it were a dog or something, nothing would be hurt. If it were an intruder, he would get the message that coming to this house was a bad idea.
Round #2 had the shot removed, but replaced with rock salt. If the intruder was still hanging around after round #1, she was to fire directly at it, using the skills gained on the skeet range. This would drive off any stray dog or casual intruder without major harm since she was firing only rock salt.
If the 2 shotgun blasts out the window were not sufficient to stop whatever the the intruder was (given that it might be a stray dog), she was to call the cops, retreat into the bedroom, close the door, put a flashlight on the floor illuminating the door, and sit on the floor behind the bed where she could see both the door and the window to the outside.
If, while she is sitting behind the bed, waiting for the cops, someone comes through the window, or the knob on the bedroom door turns, she would fire round #3, which was buck-and-ball, designed specifically to go through the door or window and demolish whatever was on the other side. If this was not enough, she still had rounds #4 and #5, which were both 00 buck.
This would drive off any stray dog or casual intruder without major harm since she was firing only rock salt.
I'm uncomfortable with the continuation of the myth that rock salt is somehow not dangerous. I imagine it does depend somewhat on the distance from muzzle to target, but at close range, muzzle blast alone is quite dangerous. And even with the shot removed, a wad could be a lethal projectile.
Try a roll of solder. It is not too predictable but will unroll after being fired. I have cut squirrels in half with a 410 using that sort of thing. But I don't know how practical it is.
All a "slug" barrel is is a rifled shotgun barrel. The twist gives the slug more accuracy with distance.
I once shot some buckshot thru a rifled barrel by mistake. The target board, 7 yards away, showed a 2-foot wide donut pattern (ie, no buckshot hit the center). Great for hitting everything but what you aim for, although there might be some usefulness to the wide spread if you're trying to hold off a large mob.
...20th-century big game hunter who often was charged with hunting down man-eating jaguars. He advocated (I believe) No. 1 buckshot as having the best overall stopping power.
That's correct. He did a lot of research on the subject for a major ammunition maker (on targets as well as the real thing - it was not just range testing of theory, it was on the job).
The hunter is Peter Hathaway Capstick. You can find his books on Amazon.com, in paperback or hard. You won't find a better read if you love hunting, guns, etc.
Has anyone except me ever shot "just a wad" from a shotgun? I shoot A LOT of skeet, and every once in a while, I'll have a shell that has lost shot (my beautiful reloads!) from the cup. Might only have half a load in the shell. When the primer ignites, there is a lack of pressure to make the powder burn reliably, and you get a blooper. Doesn't even sound right. IF YOU'RE LUCKY, the wad will clear the barrel. If you take out ALL of the shot, there's a real likelihood that the wad will just stick in the barrel, making really big problems for the next shot. It will not sound right, and you will not get the intended effect (won't scare anyone). Be careful if you think about doing this. Gotta be careful with rock salt, also, as it's not as dense as lead, and won't produce the correct pressures to fire reliably, for the same volume. This is, of course, with the same powder charge (ie. opening a factory load, and replacing the shot with rock salt or something else).
Ben
Thanks for the verification--I was depending on memory for the post.
Bump for later reading
BTTT
"For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice"
You can also send for the brochure:"Redecorating your home with Remington."
85 Posted on 01/15/2002 16:40:34 PST by Inspector Harry Callahan
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