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- Blood Trail by Michael Sullivan (Galster)
- BLOOD TRAIL -- Clinton
- BLOOD TRAIL -- Timeline
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WAS AIDS TRANSFERRED FROM MONKEYS TO HUMANS BY TAINTED POLIO VACCINE? Steve Connor, Science Editor The Independent (London); NEWS; Pg. 3 August 26, 1999, Thursday FRESH EVIDENCE has emerged to implicate the first polio vaccine trials that took place in Africa during the late 1950s as a possible cause of the global epidemic of Aids.
A book published today presents research to suggest the vaccine was contaminated with a chimpanzee immunodeficiency virus which infected humans to cause the HIV epidemic.
Mr Hooper has traced the animal research camp at Lindi, in the then Belgian Congo, linked with the Wistar and found witnesses who claimed to remember chimps being used in scientific experiments.Edward Hooper, author of The River (Penguin pounds 25), spent the past eight years investigating the theory which in 1992 was investigated by experts who rejected the idea as implausible. He claims to have found convincing support for the idea that the polio vaccine was contaminated and this led to a simian immunodeficiency virus jumping species from chimpanzee to humans.
The new evidence will put more pressure on the Wistar Institute in Philadelphia, which conducted the trials in Africa under the auspices of Hilary Koprowski, to release its stocks of polio vaccine which date back to the late 1950s.
Mr Hooper claims the Wistar used chimpanzee kidney tissue to culture the polio virus that formed the basis of the vaccine. The institute denies this, saying it used kidneys from Asian monkeys, which could not have been infected with an Aids-like virus.
However, Mr Hooper has traced the animal research camp at Lindi, in the then Belgian Congo, linked with the Wistar and found witnesses who claimed to remember chimps being used in scientific experiments.
Mr Hooper's exhaustively researched book points out:
- A high correlation between the use of the vaccine between 1957 and 1960 and subsequent outbreaks of HIV-1, the main Aids virus.
- The earliest confirmed case of HIV is from a stored tissue sample from Leopoldville, which is coincident in time and place with a major trial of the Wistar vaccine.
- Nobody has been able to confirm a case of HIV infection before 1957, the year when the Wistar vaccine trials started.
- Chimp kidneys were known to be a perfect culture medium for polio virus and would have been an obvious first choice for scientists interested in developing a vaccine.
- Dr Koprowski has given several different accounts of which monkey species was used in developing the polio vaccine and that the actual species used was never published at the time.
- The only close relative of HIV is the simian virus found in the common chimpanzee.
- An absence of documentation concerning the nature of the research work at the Lindi camp.
In response to suggestions made by Rolling Stone magazine in 1991 that the Wistar polio vaccine may have been responsible for Aids, the institute established a committee of independent experts to review the allegations. The committee reported in 1992, saying the chances of the vaccine being involved was remote. One of the principal arguments against its implication was the case of David Carr, a Manchester sailor who had apparently died of Aids in 1959.
The scientific committee said: "(Carr) had returned to England by the first half of 1957, before the Congo trial had begun. Therefore it can be stated with almost complete certainty that the large polio vaccine trial begun in 1957 in Congo was not the origin of Aids."
The Wistar Institute, which later forced Rolling Stone to publish a "clarification", issued its own press release in October 1992, stating: "The most conclusive evidence refuting the origin of Aids theory involves the earliest documented case of HIV-1 infection - a merchant marine (Carr) who was symptomatic in 1958 and died of Aids in 1959 in Manchester, England." The statement continued: "While this man travelled abroad to northern Africa beginning in 1955, he had returned to England by the first half of 1957, before the Congo trial was begun."
However, an investigation by The Independent in 1995 revealed that Carr, who had not travelled to Africa, had not been infected with HIV. The scientists who made the original claims subsequently retracted their research paper published in The Lancet in 1990.
Mr Hooper says in his book that the revelation undermined a major objection to the involvement of the polio vaccine trials in the origin of Aids.
There are nevertheless other problems with the Hooper hypothesis, which include:
- The fact that the polio vaccine was taken orally, which is a far more difficult route for HIV transmission, although not impossible.
- Objections to the theory by some HIV experts who believe the genetics of the virus indicate a passage from chimpanzee to humans some years earlier than the 1957 vaccine trials.
- Evidence that the second major type of Aids virus, HIV-2, has "naturally" transmitted from monkeys to human on several occasions, probably through the animals being hunted.
- Other areas of the world where the polio vaccine was used, such as Eastern Europe, did not experience a similar Aids epidemic.
However, Clayton Buck, deputy director of the Wistar, said last night that the institute is willing to consider the possibility of competent scientists testing old vaccine samples for signs of contamination. "I understand we have found some vials of polio virus (the vaccine) but we aren't sure if they are the original vials that were used in the trials."
The Wistar Institute has attempted to find an independent scientific agency which would agree to evaluate the possibility of testing the vaccine vials for simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV) but this has failed, Dr Buck said.
The institute said it has written to the World Health Organisation, the US National Institutes of Health and Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta, Georgia, offering the samples for testing. "We were unable to find anybody who would do this," he said. The tests are expensive and the scientists are unsure that they will be able to extract enough virus to produce any meaningful results, Dr Buck said. "We've been extremely proactive in finding that the vials are tested and have failed. He (Mr Hooper) would have to come up with some new and significantly strong argument (for this to go ahead)." However, with the latest book on the subject, there will be growing pressure on the Wistar to find an independent team to test the samples.
How Did It Begin?
Origins: other theories about how Aids and HIV began
- HIV came from the blood of African chimpanzees killed by hunters, and crossed into humans earlier this century. Published in February, this theory has rapidly won approval from many scientists.
- HIV was developed as part of a biological warfare programme by a government - pick any of the US, USSR, South Africa or Israel. A popular idea with conspiracy theorists, but such development is utterly beyond scientific capability, even today.
- HIV is a mere bystander in Aids, which is caused by intravenous drug use and anal intercourse, helped by recreational drugs. This theory, taken up by Andrew Neil when editor of The Sunday Times, is disproved by people in the so -called "high risk groups" who do not get Aids: they have been found to have genetic resistance to HIV.
- HIV is a mutated form of swine fever, originating in Haiti. Disproven: HIV is not related to swine fever.
GRAPHIC: Edward Hooper: Eight years investigating theory; A child is vaccinated for polio in 1958 in the Congo town of Leopoldville, which had the earliest case of HIV HM Gelfland/Penguin Books; A chimp in a temporary cage on its way to Lindi, in what was then the Belgian Congo, around 1957 G; Rollais
Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.
|
"HIV came from the blood of African chimpanzees killed by hunters, and crossed into humans earlier this century. Published in February, this theory has rapidly won approval from many scientists."Though Dr. Beatrice Hahn's team hypothesized that the cross-species transmission occurred when hunters were exposed to chimp blood during the killing and dressing of the animals, her genetic evidence only confirms that the simian immunodeficiency virus [SIVcpz] found in Chimpanzee Pan troglodytes troglogytes is ancestral to HIV-1. That merely genealogical conclusion, so far as I can tell, would be consistent with Mr. Hooper's hypothesis. See:
Our Tommy-boy's ears must be burning tonight. He was working with Salk on the polio vaccine in the 1950's and Tommys Dad had plasma shops set-up in...you guessed it the Belgian Congo.
Is this getting beyond evil or what!
The new evidence will put more pressure on the Wistar Institute in Philadelphia, which conducted the trials in Africa under the auspices of Hilary Koprowski, to release its stocks of polio vaccine which date back to the late 1950s.Out, damned stock! Out, I say!
If their is a high risk group that have a resistance to aids...How do they become resistant? Seems that their could be a genetic code that could have the key to vacine for aids?
I can't tell you who it is now, but a Dr. is working on the genetic angle. My Dad, in the early '50's was the guy who told the school that his daughters were not taking their vaccine or he was taking us out of school. I don't know anyone else who didn't get that stuff then. Wild...
This is one of the items that AIDS Vaccine makers are studying.
It appears that there are certain individuals that have a relative immunity to HIV by either having a different type recptor on their CD-4 cells or by having fewer recptors. Notice I said RELATIVE immunity. Large viral loads or especially virulent strains will still infect them.
My question concerns the timeline of this article. Polio vaccine (Salk) was introduced in 1956 (got my first dose in 57). Why was there testing still going on in Africa when it was already in use in the US?
RECEPTOR
HIV was developed as part of a biological warfare programme by a government - pick any of the US, USSR, South Africa or Israel. A popular idea with conspiracy theorists, but such development is utterly beyond scientific capability, even today.
Aids was biologically engineered. It is not beyond scientific capability. How do you explain the fact that Aids is a gay virus in the US but a heterosexual virus in Africa. Specific groups were targeted for vaccination. It is traceable to the Hepatitis B protocols in New York by Schmuness, who had Soviet links. A high correlation (over 90 %) of the men from those trials came down with Aids...that is statistically relevant in proving causality.
A high correlation (over 90 %) of the men from those trials came down with Aids...that is statistically relevant in proving causality.
Not true. I suspect that at least 90% ate meat, used soap and watched "The Mickey Mouse Club."
Association does not prove causality. Did the contol group in the HepB vaccine trial get AIDS? Sure they did.
Why? Because they had unprotected sex with infected individuals.
control. Type straight jerk.
My parents also refused to allow me to be vaccinated...almost had to leave school, the pressure was tremendous on my folks....(I had suffered severe asthma reactions to all nature of things as a child, my parents feared such a reaction from the vaccine),,,,,,
on another note...some time ago, when I was big into the JFK murder thing...I read a book called "Marry, Ferrie and the Monkey Virus"...when I acquired this book, I thought it would be so much trash, as many of the books on the assassination are cottage industry-fast-buck-things...however, this was a well researched piece that implicated the infamous David Ferrie in a research scheme with a famous Dr. (first name Mary, forgt last name) and related how both were involved in blood research with monkeys, rats, etc...it was well documented and really impressed me at the time...claimed that covert types were working on an ultimate cure for "undesireables", etc.....hey, who knows?????
Who were the infected individuals?
Why did people who had unprotected sex...down through the centuries, not get Aids?
Why did this disease begin at a point in time that we can point at?
See.. Md's are brainwashed into not believing relevant statistics by pharmaceutical companies. Smoking doesn't cause cancer, the Dalkon shield doesn't cause sterility, breast implants don't cause immune problems......not. It is very hard to prove causality to a doctor (I know I am generalizing). I have listened to pharmaceutical companies pull this legerdemain and I just shake my head.
My background is in Math, 90% is a damn good correlative association ...and implicates the Hep trials statistically. People lie with statisics, but sometimes statistics provide a real clue.
I presume that there was a control group in the follow up study.
At first, I read that there was no follow up study which was unusual in itself. I mean this was Merck pharmacuetical company initially. Then I read that there was one ( the source seemed credible) and there was this enormous statistic. I would love to get a hold of it.
All Right, All right here's your damn article:
Large-scale efficacy trials of hepatitis B vaccines in the USA: baseline data and protocols.
Szmuness W - J Med Virol - 1979; 4(4): 327-40
From NIH/NLM MEDLINE, HealthSTAR
NLM Citation ID: 80161977
Full Source Title: Journal of Medical Virology
Publication Type: Clinical Trial; Journal Article; Randomized Controlled Trial
Language: English
Authors: Szmuness W
Abstract: The protocols of three placebo-controlled, randomized, double-blind clinical trials to assess the efficacy of an inactivated hepatitis B vaccine in dialysis patients and staff, and in male homosexuals are described. Based on the projected attack rates of HBV in the controls, the vaccine efficacy and rates of loss to follow-up, over three thousand participants followed for at least twelve months are required to prove the efficacy of the vaccine. The results of longterm baseline studies in these populations are also reviewed.
No link to full text available. The vaccine wasn't just tested in male homosexuals, it was tested in hemodialysis patients and hemodialysis workers - also at high risk for HepB. Why didn't these people get AIDS. Furthermore, HIV wasn't discovered as the cause of AIDS until the mid-80's. HepB vaccine was approved for general use in 82 or 83. Why didn't those people get AIDS??
Like ME for instance? I was immunized against HepB in 83. I've been tested for HIV repeatedly over the years - always negative.
Great article, looks like the real link to Aids has finally been found,and it looks like they already knew how to cover their butt...... just in case, point one, lack of identification of monkeys, point two, the changing story on how Mr Carr got infected.
In this last year, I have been educated beyond my wildest dreams, and I know education is good for you, but this class is one I could have done without, the more you learn, the more you fear the number of victims, still to be found.
Morning AUNTB, and we used to think that people like your dad, was a little strange, looks like your dad has been vindicated, he was the smart one......... in hindsight.
an ultimate cure for "undesireables", etc.....hey, who knows?????
New way of saying elimination ?
looks like the real link to Aids has finally been found
Give me a break. I believe the blood trail spread it, but I don't believe that growing polio in chimp kidneys contaminated the vaccine.
Remember that injectable polio vaccine is made from KILLED virus not live. To kill the polio virus, they add formaldehyde at 1:4000 concentration. That will kill HIV too.
Some vaccines were dead viruses, some were live, don't know if you remember a while back, that some polio victims were having relapses, it is suspected that those victims were given the live vaccine.
My dad was so right on so many things political. He died when I was 15 and even though he was brilliant I was a dumb kid - sure wish I'd paid more attention. Truth is truth, eh, no matter when it's spoken.
Please post evidence that injectable polio vaccine ever contained live virus. The oral polio vaccine is live and is the one implicated in causing polio in some individuals.
Injectable polio vaccine has been a killed virus vaccine since it was invented by Salk. JAMA, August 6, 1955.
> Polio vaccine (Salk) was introduced in 1956 (got my first dose in 57). Why was there testing still going on in Africa when it was already in use in the US?
Strong point, but not quite conclusive. Was the first vaccine a complete success? If problems showed up or any adjustments were made in the vaccine after 1956, it might account for additional testing. Conceivable, also, is that this was some competitive variety of vaccine still under development.
I don't put much stock in those theories but they ought to be looked into and eliminated before we close the book here.
> formaldehyde at 1:4000 concentration. That will kill HIV too.
Another persuasive point.
> The oral polio vaccine is live and is the one implicated in causing polio in some individuals.
So, just to be on the safe side here, what was the timing of Sabin (is that the oral one in question?) and is there any possibility of it being the one implicated in the tests in the Congo?
Aaaawww, good to see T'wit back!!
Thanks ...
Bloody BUMP! Howdy Askel5 and T'wit!
So, just to be on the safe side here, what was the timing of Sabin
Yup, that's Sabin. Introduced in 1961.
is there any possibility of it being the one implicated in the tests in the Congo?
Maybe. This one took a while to research. Most of the articles describing early testing look like they came from Asia and the USSR, not from Africa. I first start seeing mention of African countries in the early 70's. Almost none of these articles are available in full text or English.
Drip....
Sorry, i can't do that, I am not a doctor, not a researcher, I just read a lot.
Why didn't these people get AIDS. Furthermore, HIV wasn't discovered as the cause of AIDS until the mid-80's. HepB vaccine was approved for general use in 82 or 83. Why didn't those people get AIDS??
For one thing, we don't know that the people in that study didn't get AIDS or some permutation of liver problems. I am curious about the initial study in Greenwich Village that was exclusively homosexual men. The initial Hepatitis vaccine was made from Hepatitis antibodies from infected people. Later on the vaccine became synthetic. Also Merck ceased to be the purveyor of this vaccine and sold it to another company..which is strange because it is a moneymaker. I think they knew that they had been used and then cleaned up the vaccine.
Thanks for looking that up for me. I have pored all through those articles and am very suspicious. This disease didn't arise from spontaneous generation.
Howdy RT - hate to break in late but I'd like to comment on this:
Aids was biologically engineered. It is not beyond scientific capability. How do you explain the fact that Aids is a gay virus in the US but a heterosexual virus in Africa.
It's actually pretty much the same virus, short of the mutations we might expect over the time from its appearance in the U.S. in the 80s. The mode of transmission is what differentiates between infected populations - in each case the most effective means of transmission is unprotected anal intercourse, which is disproportionately prevalent among the gay population in both areas. The thing which makes it more of a "gay" plague in the States is cultural: concentrations of a highly mobile gay population (San Francisco, New York) to which there isn't really an African analogue. Conversely, African prostitutes - er, sorry, "sex workers" - practice anal sex more than their American counterparts due to the lack of condoms and education there.
Understand that I'm commenting on the epidemic, not on the disease itself. How it jumped species is yet undetermined. The polio vaccine theory is certainly an interesting one despite the problems other posters have pointed out. But it's impossible to determine (with current techniques) if the origin was "bioengineered." I'm pretty skeptical, actually, but because we met the virus in medias res, we have to project both ends of its history, an iffy proposition at best.
Aids was biologically engineered. It is not beyond scientific capability. How do you explain the fact that Aids is a gay virus in the US but a heterosexual virus in Africa.
HIV spread among the gay communities of San Francisco in the late 1970's. The first to die were those with hundreds of sexual contacts each year, among those who often had other infections (hepatitis, amoebiasis, cytomegalovirus) that usually spread by the fecal-finger route. (In a family forum I'm not going to explain why that is: read Randy Shilt's book And the Band Played On).
Epidemics of venereal disease has wiped out whole armies in the past.
Ironically, I first was warned about the peril of AIDS in 1982 in my National Guard unit. In the mid 80's I gave HIV talks to my unit. After learning about HIV, I realized that I had seen many cases in Africa in the 1970's: young healthy people who died of infections that shouldn't have killed them, diarrhea that wouldn't go away, Kaposi's sarcoma.
As for HIV in Africa, this is caused by the breakdown of traditional taboos that limited sexuality in villages. Truckdrivers and contract workers, living away from their villages and wives, used prostitutes. Again, it was associated with skin infections in private areas, that allowed the HIV entrance.
Since HIV kills slowly, it is a lousy biological weapon.
>Please post evidence that injectable polio vaccine ever contained live virus.
"Work on polioviruses was made possible by the discovery of Enders, Weller, and Robbins in 1949 that polioviruses could be grown on human and monkey cells in culture. Salk showed that virus grown in monkey-kidney tissue culture could be inactivated by formalin so that it retained its ability to raise antibodies while losing its ability to grow and cause disease. This vaccine was shown to be effective in preventing poliomyelitis by Salk's mentor in epidemiology, Dr Thomas Francis, in a placebo-controlled trial completed in 1955. The results opened the way to the routine immunisation of children with Salk poliovaccine. Soon afterwards, a serious incident caused by residual living poliovirus in the vaccine caused 260 cases and lowered confidence in the vaccine. Moreover, measures to ensure safety decreased the potency of the vaccine. These problems were eventually overcome by the development of enhanced potency vaccine (e-IPV). Meanwhile, in many countries Salk vaccine had been superseded by Sabin's live oral vaccine (OPV). Salk fought a rearguard action to emphasise the advantages of e-IPV as a component of a combined vaccine for routine immunisation of infants because, properly made, it was free from danger of causing poliomyelitis and was more consistently immunogenic than OPV, especially in tropical countries."("Jonas E Salk," Beale, John, The Lancet 346 (8966): 46, July 1, 1995).
>what was the timing of Sabin
1954 Poliomyelitis inactivated
1955 Inactivated injectable polio vaccine (IPV) licensed [Salk]
1961 Poliomyelitis attenuated
1963 Measles vaccine licensed
1963 Trivalent oral polio vaccine (OPV) licensed [Sabin]
(from "Primer on vaccinations: Selected milestones in vaccination history," Sindelar, Robert D. Drug Topics No. 10, Vol. 142; Pg. 81; May 18, 1998)
A bump and a drip!
Thank you Wallaby, as always excellent information.
My Dad did a monkey once.
Thanks, Wallaby. I stand corrected.
Bump for Saturday Morning.
My dad did a monkey once....Let me guess, you were the result.
Thanks, I read Band Plays On. At one point, I read everything about this disease...since my conspiracy antenna was piqued...including all the medical research.
You two seem to have fallen victim to the smear spin that was perpetrated against the recipients of this biological experiment.
In Africa, young mothers and their neonates were the ones innoculated for hepatitis with the same cohort as that of the Greewich village gays. This is before Merck cleaned up its act. These were not degenerate people. According to workers there, they were your common garden variety families who got talked into innoculation by the UN.
Granted it is a lousy biological weapon because of its slowness but that wasn't known at the time. Initially, there were all sorts of devastating projections with this disease. That is why the CDC is looking to the Influenza of 1918 IMHO. Stay tuned.
> ("Jonas E Salk," Beale, John, The Lancet 346 (8966): 46, July 1, 1995).
Thanks, Wallaby. So, we did have developmental problems with Salk after its introduction. It is at least possible that there was continued testing in Africa or elsewhere, and that contamination occurred in such efforts.
I am not reaching for any conclusions here; just want to look at the facts as hard-headedly as we can so as not to miss any possibilities. The Congo link seems pretty tenuous (to say the least) but I don't hear the fat lady singing yet.
> Aaaawww, good to see T'wit back!!
Schwew! Aaaawwwesome welcome!
But even in the darkest hours, when news is slow and threads go dry and ding-dongs bent on evil invade our councils, I am here in mind and spirit. Let the Enemy beware :-)
> Maybe. This one took a while to research.
Ouch! I didn't mean to put you through that.
Yet it reminds us that successful introduction of a vaccine here does not preclude its continuing development elsewhere, as in countries where it may not be available due to proprietary limitations, high costs, national pride, different drug regulations and so on. In fact, we recently reviewed such a case here: China's "development" of herbal and acupuncture treatments for AIDS.
> read Randy Shilts's book And the Band Played On).
I did, at the time. In fact, I've wanted to review parts of it many times since, but packed it away so deeply that I can't find my copy. There was no comfort for any view in that book.
It wasn't just AIDS. Those guys were getting stuff like shigellosis. Let's not even mention the Crisco <g>
> Aids was biologically engineered.
In the movie Miracle on 34th Street, the existence of Santa Claus is proven right before your eyes, and to the complete satisfaction of every viewer.
the existence of Santa Claus is proven right before your eyes, and to the complete satisfaction of every viewer.
Ho Ho Ho!
In Africa, young mothers and their neonates were the ones innoculated for hepatitis with the same cohort as that of the Greewich village gays. This is before Merck cleaned up its act. These were not degenerate people. According to workers there, they were your common garden variety families who got talked into innoculation by the UN.
We wern't using hepatitis vaccine in Africa back in the 1970's. At that time, children were dying of measles because the vaccine was too expensive (30 cents) to use in many areas. Hepatitis B vaccine cost me $107 in 1988, which was six months salary where I worked in Africa.
When I was in Africa, I did see Kaposi's sarcoma and young people dying of overwealming infections that shouldn't have died, and people dying slowly of diarrhea that we just couldn't figure out what was causing it. Nowadays those things are known to be from HIV. This was BEFORE the gay rights movement started.
Randy Shilts' book starts his book with a Swedish missionary doctor who died of PCP pneumonia, by the way.
The polio vaccine of the 1930's WAS contaminated with monkey viruses. The Salk vaccine was killed, as was the early Hep B vaccine which was derived from people who later got HIV diagnoses. However, now it is made from bacteria.
Another story on Hooper's book:
Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.
|
THE WORLDWIDE Aids epidemic was started by scientists who inoculated a million people in
Africa with an experimental polio vaccine made using tissue from chimpanzees, according to a book
to be published next month.
The former BBC correspondent who in 1986 was the first to report the African heterosexual Aids
epidemic, has spent 12 years piecing together the story.
His book, The River, sets out to answer the biggest question about Aids - how a virus that had
existed in chimpanzees in West Africa for a millennia or more suddenly became today's biggest-killing
infectious disease in humans.
If true - and it is certainly causing huge controversy among scientists - it reveals a horrifying story in
which scientists trying to cure one disease brought about another even worse.
|
"It carries moral and practical lessons for science and for medicine. More than a million Africans were
inoculated without having any say in the matter, with a serum derived from chimpanzees sacrificed for
the purpose," the author says.
He believes that the team led by virologist Hilary Koprowski used the kidneys of 200 chimpanzees, which carry the virus SIV most closely related to the earliest and most widespread variant of HIV, to make vaccine they hoped would provide the first effective weapon against polio. The resulting vaccine, CHAT, was given either in sweets or as a 1cc squirt of serum into the throat of "at least a million" people in the Belgian Congo and what was then Rwanda-Urundi - now the countries of Zaire, Rwanda and Burundi, he says. The sites of the 28 vaccination projects correlate closely with the earliest known cases of infection by the HIV 1m variant of the disease - the virus responsible for 90 per cent of Aids deaths. Vaccination sites included Kinshasa, where four of the first six cases of HIV 1 were recorded between 1959 and 1970 - in all, 18 cases before 1980 - and villages in one valley on the Burundi border with Tanzania where more than 200,000 people were inoculated, and where there were 29 HIV 1m infections before 1980. Mr Hooper interviewed 600 people to put together the book in which he also explains the emergence of HIV2 in human populations. He says this was the result of a French team engaged in inoculation programmes elsewhere, which kept sooty mangabey, carriers of the closest related simian virus, together with other primates used to make the vaccines. |
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Bump.
Oral vaccine=Live virus. Scary, really scary
I don't know what to think. Since when do we test a new vaccine on a million or more people? How can it be kept secret from so many people that they are guinea pigs? And if the vaccine is contaminated, don't we get a far higher infection rate than the handful of cases reported here?
This research seems to take all kinds of strange twists and turns, to every disease you can think of.
I think you'll find our Camp 731 friends and our Blood Broker friends mixed up in this twist. I wouldn't doubt it if our Dr.Stough was mixing up some of this vaccine stuff and doing his prison studies with it either.
a bump and a drip!
Innocculate a million Africans with live virus and then mix'n mutate and the get them to donate their plasma....walla!....AIDS
> Innocculate a million Africans with live virus and then mix'n mutate...
I suppose it's possible. But another old rule comes easily to mind: If you search long enough and hard enough for material for your book, you'll find exactly what you were looking for.
Note this prior comment from LadyDoc:
>> At that time, children were dying of measles because the vaccine was too expensive (30 cents) to use in many areas. <<
Against this, we have a claim that an untested vaccine was given to a million people, in several countries. Somebody supposedly spent a lot of money to administer the vaccine. What did they get for the money? How did they track results? Where is the follow-up study?
This tale is not passing my sniff test.
The hepatitis B shots were given to the African mothers as part of the initial trials. I don't think that they were charged.
The Band Played On was an interesting book but I think it was more popularized than truthful. I read it a while ago. Gallo's work had not been impugned at that time.
There was a doctor named Donald Francis who was mentioned in that book and who has since noted the correspondence between Aids and the early Hepatitis trials, I believe.
And if the vaccine is contaminated, don't we get a far higher infection rate than the handful of cases reported here?
Not necessarily. Let's assume for a minute that it was a pretty good oral polio vaccine. Despite the fact that it is a live virus, it is attenuated, meaning weakened. The polio infection rate may only have been 1 out of 100,000. Ergo 10 cases of polio out of a million trial subjects.
OTOH, the infection rate for AIDS after mucous membrane exposure is about 0.03% or 3 out of 10,000. Ergo 300 cases of a viral infection that doesn't show up for years.
In the meantime, infected individuals have sex, donate blood, use IV drugs, give birth, get injections with needles that are then re-used. Voila! Epidemic spread.
Those of you who have read my posts, know that as a physician, I'm pretty skeptical and attempt to debunk some of the wilder theories. This one at least sounds plausible.
Aids did not spontaneously generate because infection reached a critical mass. This disease is a distinct entity, introduced at specific time in history. It was created to give a death sentence to identified social groups. In the normal disease process, the immune system recognizes an invader as not part of the body and goes after it. Sometimes the invader is too strong for the immune system and the body dies. In this disease, there is a trick which sets up a chain reaction in the process. That is what makes this disease so interesting.
There have always been squalid conditions for disease to germinate. Aids just didn't evolve from a witch's brew of polio vaccine...although that isn't good for you either.
> This one at least sounds plausible.
Very well. I have no background in medicine, can't tell on my own.
Resistant individuals have a slightly different receptor protein then those who get the infection the virus can't lock onto the T cells to cause infection. Just part of the natural variability in individuals. In any epidemic there will always be some individuals who are resistant to infection.
Yes I did notice, like I said, this saga has taken more twists and turns than you can shake a stick at, It's amazing where this has taken you investigators, and I have a strange feeling, there is a lot more turns to take.
And it's amazing, how much the cost comes into the fray, so little money....... on the other hand, so much return on money, the cost factor comes into play before anything else........ we do have our priorities.
I'm glad to help out in that area. Feel free to call on me if you need translation, research or a sounding board.
Maybe that resistant T cells could be reproduced?
> Call on me...
Thank you. We who toil to bring the Arkansas tainted blood story to light all have to be in the debunking business -- starting with our own views. This was a crime. We cannot let our thirst for justice entice us to believe anything more, less or other than the truth about the perpetrators. The truth is quite damning enough.
The truth is quite damning enough.
Amen and a bump and a drip!
Bump back. We have done a first-rate investigative job here. We broke the Arkansas tainted blood story almost exactly one year ago in Free Republic. We have explored it, broadened it, archived it, and put it out to the whole world for "peer review." The story has maintainted its complete integrity because we ourselves insist on integrity.
Kudos and heartfelt thanks to your tenacious, resourceful Canuckistani reporters for developing the story where our mainstream media shame themselves by their silence.
Bump back. We have done a first-rate investigative job here. We broke the Arkansas tainted blood story almost exactly one year ago in Free Republic. We have explored it, broadened it, archived it, and put it out to the whole world for "peer review." The story has maintainted its complete integrity because we ourselves insist on integrity.
Kudos and heartfelt thanks to your tenacious, resourceful Canuckistani reporters for developing the story where our mainstream media shame themselves by their silence.
Bump back. We have done a first-rate investigative job here. We broke the Arkansas tainted blood story almost exactly one year ago in Free Republic. We have explored it, broadened it, archived it, and put it out to the whole world for "peer review." The story has maintainted its complete integrity because we ourselves insist on integrity.
Kudos and heartfelt thanks to your tenacious, resourceful Canuckistani reporters for developing the story where our mainstream media shame themselves by their silence.
Kennedy,Harper,Bueckart,Picard,McIlroy,Greer,Harris,Rutherford,Pins,Sewel,and other canuckies salute the Bloodhounds of FR.
Great pun in your post #3!!!!
While similar, no proof exists that simianimunodeficiency viruse is the cause of HIV. If HIV came from a virus crossing from monkeys to humans, I think it far more likely the vector was a monkey used for "bush meat" or a "bush babe".
While similar, no proof exists that simianimunodeficiency viruse is the cause of HIV. If HIV came from a virus crossing from monkeys to humans, I think it far more likely the vector was a monkey used for "bush meat" or a "bush babe".
In the '91 Rolling Stone article, the author stated that this theory (HIV transferred to humans from vaccine cultured in monkey tissue) could be tested by analyzing samples of the vaccine from the '50s (which were known to be in storage). Apparently this testing has not been done yet, or results have been suppressed.
If true - and it is certainly causing huge controversy among scientists - it reveals a horrifying story in which scientists trying to cure one disease brought about another even worse.
Seems there are many instances, where the cure is worse than the disease, and we will see a lot more of that in the future.
Thanks BigM for posting the names of these good reporters, I can never remember all of them, this list I am going to cut and paste to my personal file.
Excuse the multiple post. The system seemed to be down and gave no indication that posting had succeeded.
And we salute them. When I said "we" above, I had them in mind as part of the team. We depend on them and they do not fail us.
Kudos likewise to Pierre Bourque, whose web site (BOURQUE NEWSWATCH) has been unflagging in support and incredibly helpful to the tainted blood investigation.
Take two aspirin, drink lots of water, and stay offline until you recover from harmless viruses.
How could I forget Pierre? A bump and a drip for Bourque!
> How could I forget Pierre?
You never did. Just a quirk of an orderly mind. You were thinking in the category of "reporter" and Pierre does not quite fit the old definition. Nevertheless, I'm glad to give him his due. He's been thoughtful, helpful and on the ball.
Another BUMP for the blood recipients.
> Another BUMP for the blood recipients.
There you go. May we somehow find both justice and effective medical care for them.
If you're still tuned in, pls. write me via mwaaa@hotmail.com That address should be perfectly confidential. I'll explain my business there.
You've got mail!
Got mine. If you did not get a reply, pls. advise.
"THE WORLDWIDE Aids epidemic was started by scientists who inoculated a million people in Africa with an experimental polio vaccine made using tissue from chimpanzees, according to a book to be published next month."
Imagine the class action for negligence that all those dead and dying victims and their survivors could bring.
Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot. They are Africans, who in the eyes of the world elite, are reproducing too fast, anyway. And their lives aren't worth as much as the lives of idiot Americans who voluntarily smoked three packs a day for thirty years (or however long the warning labels have been on the cigarette packages).
I do not trust the caring world bureaucrats, anymore. When they start doing the trials of new vaccines at Sidwell Friends, Episcopal High, Deerfield Academy, Lawrenceville, Eton, Choate-Rosemary Hall, and the schools the UN bureaucrats send their kids to in New York, and Geneva, then maybe I would look at things a bit differently. (Actually, if they actually started trying new vaccines on the elites' own children, then we should expect some new plague to strike the rest of us. A plague would knock the population down, and might well raise living standards for those who survive, as a few inherit the goods of many, and labor becomes more valuable -- that's what happened in at least outbreak of the Bubonic Plague. The people who run our world are pretty damn cold and calculating.)
One might almost get the feeling that black Africans are considered expendable. When will people wake up to the real rascism underlying much of the population control movement?
One might almost get the feeling that black Africans are considered expendable. When will people wake up to the real rascism underlying much of the population control movement?
I'm more interested in the growing amount of scientific study that suggests HIV has nothing to do with AIDS and in fact HIV isn't a virus at all.
By the way, this story has been out there since at least 1990. Perhaps they have newer evidence now.
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