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They're talking about the breaking news -
Exemplifing their lies - good so far...
Gee - you are on the ball ----I was trying to figure out how to post this. I like that "Waco: A New Revelation
During the commercial, let's try to think of ONE thing in the government some of Clinton's appointees haven't ruined.
Great we don't get nightline for 3 more hours - Finally some other media other than Fox.
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They're trying really hard to make this look like a regional mistake, not the fault of the bigwigs back in D.C. This is really disgusting. What a bunch of liars. "They even kept it from the Attorney General".
You are right.
Sage the suinty eyed toady is trying to distance himself for the tapes.
This spokesman is dying...really dying... he's miserable.
They have that lying FBI negotiator (Gage or Sage) and he is treading water. I saw him on the Sunday shows and he is one hateful bas***d.
He's treading water with concrete boots.
Oh Bullshit! Listen to this guy!!!!
This is devastating stuff. It's going to be real interesting to watch Bill Clinton distance himself from this. The people involved in this are all HIS appointees.
Russian money fraud, Waco, Jonathan Pollard, FALN, Taiwan, Chinagate, cocaine, and upcoming retreat from Haiti and turning over the Canal.....my my, the boy does have a plateful, doesn't he? (Gee, what have I forgotten. I know there's MORE.) Oh, possible disbarment????
Quote Of The Day Submitted by Semper Fidelis
Thanks for the heads-up. I only caught the last few minutes, but enjoyed jeering that FBI freak's spin. When the other guy was on in the split-screen and mentioned the (third?) perjury charge, did you see the FBI spinmeister look away in disgust? Too much for him to handle, two lies in less than four minutes airtime. What a loser!
Sage was the head negotiator at Waco as far as I understand. It would be interesting to find out how many times he lied to Koresh. Maybe the Rangers have tapes of Sage speaking to Koresh! If so, this guy is sweating bullets.
I had heard that William Sessions, director of FBI at the time of the siege, was blocked from directly speaking with Koresh himself. Anyone know anything about this? Sessions also challenged Reno's assertion that there was child abuse going on in the compound, then shortly after that was fired.
The two guests on the show were Byron Sage, the (now retired) head of the FBI Hostage Negotiation Team; and David Hardy, an attorney for some of the Davidians.
Sage made many prevarications about the two Incendiary devices, shot at the Pit and not at the wooden structure. (Aren't the "Flash/Bang Grenades" somewhat incendiary, too?) I personally find it hard to believe that only two were used; hope that Texas Rangers blow that open.
David Hardy was incensed that the tapes had not been provided when requested for the trial, and was very adamant that perjury was committed by a number of people from the government and under oath.
As GrandmaC said, it's about time this was carried by some others in the press besides Fox.
Is Sage the one heard in WTROE denying Koresh's claim that the ATF fired on the Davidians from choppers during the original raid, then backing down when Koresh calls him on the lie?
one and the same
I thought we established last year that perjury is not a serious offence, at least when it's done to cover your butt. Anybody would lie to cover their butt.
Wasn't it an interesting "turn" to hear Koppel say that Reno took responsibility for the results of Waco, but unlike leaders in Japan or Europe, did not resign her position? (Or commit "hari-kari"...:)
And that taking responsibility, with no consequences meant nothing! I was amazed to hear this from Koppel!
The weasel-wording (lying)former FBI, Sage, was clearly "sweating" and appeared to be very uncomfortable!
Maybe the truth will finally HAVE to come out, if even "Nightline" is covering it?
Thanks for the heads-up. I only caught the last few minutes, but enjoyed jeering that FBI freak's spin. When the other guy was on in the split-screen and mentioned the (third?) perjury charge, did you see the FBI spinmeister look away in disgust? Too much for him to handle, two lies in less than four minutes airtime. What a loser!
Yeah...I caught the tail end too.(thanks for the heads up!)
Kopple seemed plussed as well.
He wasn't buying Sage's spin at all.
I don't know if he was upset because they were running out of time and he couldn't follow up, or was worried s*htless because it looks like the fat is inching toward the fire.
Does Nightline post transcripts? I missed this and would really appreaciate comments from those in other time zones...lets keep this one bumped to the top.
No, we should just blast rock music at her, shine floodlights into all her windows all day and night, cut off her water and sewage, and pelt her with CS gas grenades until she sets fire to herself.
Did any of you notice FBI Trained Liar Byron Sage's neck tie? The man is a sicko and obviously very proud of his work in Waco, because his necktie had multicolored maps of Texas all over it and on each map was just one star. And guess where that star was located. That's right, WACO! The sick bastard actually owns a Waco tie, and had the gall and arrogance to wear it for a TV interview about the cover-up in WACO!
I just thought this little detail added some more insight into the warped minds of the men behind this atrocity.
Or tie her to a chair and put an ice cold bottle of vodka in front of her.
"No, we should just blast rock music at her, shine floodlights into all her windows all day and night,
cut off her water and sewage, and pelt her with CS gas grenades until she sets fire to herself."
Hey, I like it... a kind of poetic justice. A hot time in the old town tonight.
I saw Nightline from the beginning. Ted Kopel made a huge run-on sentence explaining how this "discovery" makes the "conspiracy theorists" seem credible even though they are always wrong! I hope someone can post the transcript because the first 2 minutes showed the most bias I've seen in a long time. Kopel looked real uncomfortable bashing those "conspiracy theorists". I suspect he was upset because after 5 minutes he realized how stupid his opening statement sounded.
I guess you've heard of the internment camps for Japanese-Americans during WWII. There was one near my home town, in Southern Idaho. Can you imagine a military official on national television, discussing the internment camps, wearing a tie of Minidoka, Idaho?
I watched WTROE again today, taking a few notes, the FBI
negotiator discussing lying about the guns on the helicopters was Jim Cavanaugh, not Sage. Koresh called him on it.
Lol...I've seen that same attitude on Salon and elsewhere. This is terrible because it proves those evil right wingers were correct all along. Gosh..and some say liberalism is not a religion.
Hillary and Hubbell and Foster ran the Waco spin. They met daily during the siege. The child abuse cover was Hillary's idea. No wonder Sessions was fired.
Don't they offer copies of their programs or transcripts for a fee? Would love a nice big .jpeg of that tie!
All right! It's the vacuum cleaner monster from The Yellow Submarine, the liberal media finally beginning to devour itself out of sheer hunger for info. Actually exposing Clinton lies and cover up will in the end also expose the totalitarian leaning media lies and coverup.
All right! It's the vacuum cleaner monster from The Yellow Submarine, the liberal media finally beginning to devour itself out of sheer hunger for info. Actually exposing Clinton lies and cover up will in the end also expose the totalitarian leaning media lies and coverup.
Always a chance they are nervous being on camera, as then what they say is out for all to see. My point being Reno only knows what she was told by her underlings. If she was lied to and acted on those lies, anyone lying to CYA (any A) is just getting in deeper. Not to defend Reno, but she ain't the one out on the line doing the work, either--she is just a well-paid office-bound paper-pusher, acting on the reports given her. If the reports were fabrications, that makes any decisions based on them were wrong, too. Time heals all wounds, and wounds all heels. ;) And, let's kick that fat in the fire, and throw some powdered magnesium on it, too!
You are back from the past, and you are also totally correct.
Nightline has taken a break from discussing the progress of diversity training in the Denny's in Dismal Seepage, Ohio, to engage in a whitewash of the Rapist and the Obstructor General.
I am currently reading the book, "The Ashes of Waco...An Investigation", by Dick J. Reavis. I looked up Bryon Sage's name in the index and the following is the only mention of him in the entire book:
While the tanks were rudely bringing down Mt. Carmel, FBI chief negotiator Bryon Sage and an assistant were attempting to calm those inside. Over the public address system that had earlier given voice to Nancy Sinatra and Alice Cooper, the two were broadcasting a new message. "This is not an assault. This is not an assault," the message said. "We will not be entering the building."
Surviving residents say that in making their entries, the tanks knocked over lanterns and cans of fuel, and crushed a pressurized tank filled with liquified propane gas, a volatile heating and cooking fuel. About the time that the fire got under way, transcripts show that the Bureau's broadcasters began to ad-lib, adding to their prepared text exclamations like, "David, you have had your fifteen minutes of fame," and, "Vernon is finished. He's no longer the Messiah!"
Reno should resign.
clinton is pretty mum on this subject.I can't believe the creep doesn't have a role in this mess.
Ted said: "In the meantime, the credibility of the FBI, which probably did tell the truth about most of what happened, that credibility is badly damaged, while the credibility of the conspiracy theorists, who tend to be wrong about most of what they've spun together about Waco, their credibility is newly enhanced."
Just went to ABC.com. They offer transcripts (free, I think) for a week the day after the show airs. All they had tonight was 08/31 and earlier.
Sorry, my mistake, I was referring to the PBS Frontline tape.
I stand corrected.
Over the public address system that had earlier given voice to Nancy Sinatra and Alice Cooper...
What - "These Boots Will Step All Over Chickens?"
I stop by occasionally. (:
Thank you very much! It seemed much longer when I heard it the first time. I was very angry listening to the "spin". Thanks for the quote.
come on now, the truth is so strange we don't have to invent stuff. I have seen the posts about Hillary's possible involvement, based mostly on the information that she received updates. But, most of the time the siege was going on, she was in Little Rock. Her dad had a stroke and was dying. I can't remember the date of his death.
There is much documented proof that Nussbaum, Lindsey, and Foster met with Web Hubbell in the White House. He briefed them on Waco the week before the raid. Clinton was lying when he said he didn't know about the raid until the day before it happened.
More interesting info from the Congressional Report. Clinton hired John Podesta for the express purpose of spinning Waco, and one of the lawyers for the obstructionist democrats on the committee was none other than Julian Epstein.
"Ted said: "In the meantime, the credibility of the FBI, which probably did tell the truth about most of what happened, that credibility is badly damaged, while the credibility of the conspiracy theorists, who tend to be wrong about most of what they've spun together about Waco, their credibility is newly enhanced."
Well said, Ted. . .or is this just a line from an old 'Monty Python'???
one of the lawyers for the obstructionist democrats on the committee was none other than Julian Epstein.
Who is quickly moving up to the top of my Sh*t List.
To some degree, Reno has to beleive her "employees", but still, the captain goes down with the ship. Someone has to be responsible. Cliche', perhaps, but those ideas seemed to work until recently (like, over most of recorded history). What happened to "the buck stops here"? That's the way it still works in the private sector.
Personally, I think she got in over her head and got in a tough spot almost immediately after taking the job. She wouldn't have had nearly half the bad press if she looked good on TV. Maybe she was picked to be AG because she would be "pliable". BTW, has anyone observed that her Parkinson's symptoms are more similar to heavy metal poisioning (lead, mercury, thallium)? She should get checked out by a non-gooberment doctor and an anonymous lab.
Excellent work getting that picture up.
BTW...the "Star" is for Austin...the capitol...not Waco.
But tasteless none the less!
Did Howdy Doody's son say that?
That's quite a "sentence."
Ted could compete with retarded Howard Cosell for destruction of the English language.
Unf***ing real. What a PIG...
Reno didn't initially get bad press. Koppell reminded his viewers tonight that Reno achieved instant Washington Stardom when she went in front of the microphones the day of the Waco fire and took responsibility. And I remember, everyone was praising her to the skies. We didn't know about the lies, and we didn't realize then how easy it is to "take responsibility" if you never have to pay any consequences.
Funny, I saw Julian last night on Hardball trying to lie about....er, I mean, spin....the facts about Waco. I just watched for a couple of minutes, but the other guest started to shred Julian to pieces. I have never seen that scared look on his face before (usually he just looks oh-so-smug) but he immediately started to back down. Tonight I sat down at 7:00 to see what was on the tube about Waco....I checked MSNBC (talking about amusement parks and roller coasters...and how they can suddenly turn on you and kill!), CNBC had the lead story about those devastating forest fires (which can also kill, I guess), and CNN had on their World Report or something. Didn't see anything about Waco and Reno and the FBI, yet that was all I heard about today on FreeRepublic! Just Freepin' amazing....don't want to upset the sheeple, let's just move on, and anyway it's sooo darn complicated. The lamestream media is a JOKE!
Yes, she accepted responsibility. Let her belly up to the bar and take her lumps like a little guy would.
I have read the reports about her anger over the revelations
concerning the news of the last few days, and wonder as many do if it is an act. Her shaking that I have seen comes and goes, it makes me suspicious to the point of wondering if that is not an act, too...yet this whole damn administration has been nothing but one ongoing lie as well.
Wasn't it an interesting "turn" to hear Koppel say that Reno took responsibility for the results of Waco, but unlike leaders in Japan or Europe, did not resign her position? (Or commit "hari-kari"...:) And that taking responsibility, with no consequences meant nothing! I was amazed to hear this from Koppel!
This is the first time I have heard any mainstream news star allude to the fact that so many Clinton Admin figures talk about the responsibility that they are taking when things go wrong, but no one ever seems to lose their job.
Responsibility must not interfere with self esteem. What would it do to rhino's self esteem if she resigned ?
clinton is pretty mum on this subject.I can't believe the creep doesn't have a role in this mess.
Shhhh...be vewwy quiet. He's hunting houses.
Seriously, though...I can't believe that no one has asked him question one about the new revelations. It's almost as if they decided that he couldn't come up with a good enough lie yet and want to give him time.
I watched WTROE again today, taking a few notes
I did too. Did you notice that Koresh said something about having to do something "for the children"? He was so sincere and it stuck in my mind. I wonder if that isn't where clinton got the notion of doing it "for the children"
I had thought that negotiator was a man by a different name but I could be wrong...
Thanks for the info on Epstein. I saw him on Crossfire the day the story broke and was struck by how nervous he looked.
Hey, L.N., I heard you on Jim Eason today (KSFO) an outstanding job you did.
I too watched W:TROE again recently. I have a question that has nagged at me since the first time I watched the video.
During the section of the documentary where the FLIR footage is showing the bursts of gunfire comming from the tank, these bursts are comming from the left side of the tank, about 3/4 of the way to the rear of the tank.
I looked around on the internet and found that at Waco, the FBI originaly requested 9 Bradley fighting vehicles from the National Guard, but then somehow decided they were not up to the task, so they acquired 2 M1A1 Abrams tanks, and 5 M728 Combat Engineering Vehicles (converted M60A1 tanks).
I have been unable to determine, either from searching the net or talking to soldiers here where I work (signal corps soldiers with previous experience with armored vehicles), whether the construction of any of these tanks would allow for the gunfire to come from where the FLIR video suggests.(3/4 of the way to the rear, left side)
Can someone with any expertise with FLIR or armored vehicles help me out on this one?
washi
Hey, L.N., I heard you on Jim Eason today (KSFO) an outstanding job you did.
Thanks. I was calling from a phone booth and was hoping that a car with an alarm that would go off with every bus that passed would remain silent when my turn finally came.
I couldn't believe that some idiot was saying there was an upside to deliberate falsehoods being spread on the Net. If I hadn't spent so much time ad-libbing on the SAT score deal, I would have talked about how so many of the people who are claiming vindication after the Waco lies have come to light are shooting themselves in the foot by saying such ridiculous things as "the FBI pumped gasoline into the walls of the compound and set it on fire."
If time permitted, I also wanted to get a shot in at Jack Thompson, whose well-worn and unproven Reno smears are now a regular feature of the Geoff Metcalf show, despite the fact that he never puts up and never shuts up.
clinton is pretty mum on this subject.I can't believe the creep doesn't have a role in this mess.
He does, but there won't be any evidence to connect him to it, there is a reason they call him "Slick Willie"
Sorry, my mistake, I was referring to the PBS Frontline tape.
I stand corrected.
No problem, I realize it wasn't intentional and it's hard to keep 'em straight. I believe Cavanaugh and Sage are both liars anyway. ;-)
Helping each other keep this mess straight is the beauty of FR.
Have you seen Frontline's website on Waco?
PBS Frontline Waco: The Rest Of The Story
Thanks for the quote.
You're welcome, my pleasure.
You are right, it was spin city from the get go, and I caught that as well as the usual buzz words as well. It's to be expected. Sad.
I punch-u-ated the remote to the vcr a lot more than that sentence trying to transcribe that mess.
Koppel is a professional. ;-)
But his intent and meaning was clear. (Or the scriptwriter's was)
Excellent work getting that picture up.
BTW...the "Star" is for Austin...the capitol...not Waco.
But tasteless none the less!
Thanks, it was a blurry eyed effort snagging the shots and sticking them up on the net as it was late for me here on the East coast at that time.
I hadn't paid his tie any attention as I was focusing on his eyes, body language and words......let's just say he wasn't sincere.
Thanks for clearing up the confusion on the city. I was thinking it a little strange when someone mentioned it was a "Waco" tie, and a pure in your face slam if it had been.
Everything Koppel does is scripted.
Notice how frantic he gets when things go off the script.
Yeah -- sad to say, I think that's what's passing these days as "covering the news".
The man was clearly lying, did you see him blush more and more as he spewed his babble. Look and know your enemy, he will kill you and your children, without remorse and then be the butt boy for the cover-up. Remember that face ppl.
Jammer
Can someone with any expertise with FLIR or armored vehicles help me out on this one?
I haven't seen the tape. What you describe sounds like fire coming from the gunner's hatch on the M1 tank. This location normally carries a 7.62mm M242 machine gun, which can be mounted on a pintle. The gunner's hatch is located about halfway back on the left side of the turret.
couldn't come up with a good enough lie yet and wanted to give him time.
Exactly. Reno must share blame for the Waco tragedy, even be fired but the bottom line is....she's nothing more than a pawn of King billy.
Let's hope the 'hounds' will be pointed in the right direction.
Let's hope he turns into "Velcro Willie".
Can't be soon enough to suit me.
Is anyone else calling Burton's offices?
Phone # for the offices of the Committee for Gov't Reform is (202) 225--5074;
FAX (202) 225-3974. to express concern about custody of evidence and a serious Waco investigation.
I just called. The young lady who answered took my comment very fast. I asked her if anyone from their office was monitoring FreeRepublic. She said no. That means that only Bob Barr is bright enough to have staff lurking on FR.
