Warning! These are very graphic pictures of the massacre now being perpetrated by the Muslim, Islamic terrorists in E. Timor. Visit the Web site by clicking on:
http://www.angelfire.com/pe/Timor/
May Their Souls Rest in Peace.
Cannibals are kinder. I understand a long row of heads on sticks line the streets of Dili. The looting is as bad as the Iraqis in Kuwait.
Here is a link that leads to information about how terrorism is an integral part of what Islam recommends:
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust/
Remember you liberal morons that what goes on in East Timor is none of your business. You stupid bastards continue to let the worthless liberal news media control your minds.
I seen stories where the dead headless bodies are by the hundreds, and as the picture shows, these people are ruthless. Let's us pray we send no U.S. soldiers there. This is not Kosovo, it's much worse.
Oh dear, oh dear OHHHH Dear me... my, my, my.... And so soon after.... uhmm.. where was it? uhhh... Iraq? no.. wait, don't tell me.. uhh.. Pakistan? no... uhmmm... South Africa? was that it? No... Oh.. yeah....... Kokomo.. no.. Kosovo.. yeah. That's it. And it's just that time were the average attention span has maxxed out again, so............. Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's billie.... And just like Kosovo, if we ignore it and the media portrays it as another holocaust, the Republicans will look like crap. If we move on it, we'll be the scourge of the far right.. We'll be damn lucky if we can make it to the 2000 elections and still have the party intact. This administration has one laugh up their sleeve after another. Yer right, carville. War's hell.
Have we heard from Bill's Eurotwit pal Tony on this?
Where are all those BBC cameramen when they're really needed?
We say give the Aussies all the support they need and let them go in and if the Indonesians don't get out, let them have it.
Unlike the Balkans, here it is clear which side is in the right and there is no solution short of armed force, and it is the most efficient solution and one that will work if applied swiftly and effectively.
You have done a great service in spreading the truth.
Look folks. i know this sounds heartless but freedom
isn't free. If East Timor wants independance it must
fight for it. That's just the way it is. The people in
that part of the world have displayed their savage,
heathen barbarity. It's their problem. Let them work
it out. The people of East Timor voted for independance
They must now defend themselves. My suggestion is for
the East Timorese to start taking control. The Indonesians
are trying to intimidate them. What did
the Timorese think would happen?
They should have had provision for this occurance.
As for the news and pictures. i've learned that
things are not always as they seem. My concern is in America.
i don't care about the rest of the worlds problems.
If a machete wielding group of thugs showed up on my
doorstep. i'd send the bunch running in a hail of bullets.
Let's us pray we send no U.S. soldiers there.
If we don't, then we'll be called ignorant Liberals. If we do, then we'll be called stupid Liberals. It's a lose lose situation no matter what we do or who's doing it.
That first picture has Somalia written on it all over.
If the terrorists are Islamic, what religion are the victims ? Please excuse my ignorance on this subject.
25 years and counting...
When you find your head on a stick then you can get concerned, otherwise what goes on in East Timor is none of your business, unless you want to buy a plane ticket to get there and fight the battle of which ever side you choose. We don't need to hear about it.
I think what you have in mind is to send someone else's son or daughter to fight your NWO war. Damn you.
The E. Timorese are devout catholics, having been converted during 400 years of Portuguese rule. In 1976 E. Timor became independent. Nine days later the indonesians invaded.
Here is a link that leads to information about how terrorism is an integral part of what Islam recommends:
No one needs Hindu party hacks spouting off on how evil Islam is, Jai.
If you were to start pointing out the barbarity of what Hindu mobs have been doing to Muslims in your Rolex-Thuggie paradise, then perhaps we can sit and listen to what the Muslim mobs are doing to Hindus. But take it from me, most people do not see an iota of difference between the red blood of Hindu victims and the red blood of Muslim victims, nor any difference between Hindu machetes and Muslim machetes.
If I am not for myself, then who will be?
If I am only for myself, then what am I?
If not now, when?
We don't need to hear about it.
We do need to hear about it. If for nothing else, then at least to appreciate the humanity that's still left in us/US.
I agree with you about us/US minding our own business for once. But unfortunately there's something about the smell of blood that makes it irresistible to some.
You've never read the Koran and have no right to defend the muslim religion. In the hadith, the collected sayings of Mohammed, he states that it is pleasing to god to rape non-muslim women, kill non-muslim men and steal from non-muslims.
In the Koran, which muslims consider the direct word of god, it is stated that no muslim should be friends with a non-muslim. All muslims are also ordered to 'humiliate' all non-muslims at every opportunity.
There are no moral injunctions in the Koran which are stated in terms which apply to all people. For example, in the bible it says,"thou shalt not kill." The statement does not refer to race, religion, sex, age etc. All moral injunctions in the Koran refer only to muslims, as in,"Should a muslim accidentally kill a muslim, he must set free one muslim slave or fast and pray for a month." This means there is no punishment for accidentally killing a non-muslim. Everything in the koran is written this way. There are no moral injunctions within the koran which apply to all people.
Another thing, in islam every purely muslim country is called,'the land of peace,' and every country where there are both muslims and non-muslims is called the,'the land of war'. This is because wherever muslims and non-muslims live together the muslims must fight and destroy the non-muslims.
Since the indonesian invasion in 1976, E. Timor has been,'the land of war.'
The E. Timorese are devout catholics, having been converted during 400 years of Portuguese rule. In 1976 E. Timor became independent. Nine days later the indonesians invaded.
That was the time when we could have done something we could justify as moral. What can we do now? Go liberate them from our own puppets who were committing genocide with the guns supplied by us. Now that ought to make us morally superior.
In the Koran, which muslims consider the direct word of god, it is stated that no muslim should be friends with a non-muslim. All muslims are also ordered to 'humiliate' all non-muslims at every opportunity.
I believe there's a similar passage in the Jewish Talmud. The Old Testament allows the Chosen People to do to non Chosen People basically the same thing as the Koran.
All moral injunctions in the Koran refer only to muslims...
Then why are Muslims kill other Muslims? I believe it's for the same reason why Christians kill other Christians.
The biggest problem with religion is that it serves it's self more than it does it's God.
Sounds like somthing right out of the klan handbook.
Please be so good as to point out which passages in the Talmund your talking about. Just saying it doesn't make it so, a typical liberal ploy.
Why should Americans be "shocked" by photos of those killed in a civil war halfway around the world when for six years they weren't "shocked" by readily-available photos of charbroiled bodies from Tien-an-Men in Waco?
Please be so good as to point out which passages in the Talmud your talking about. Just saying it doesn't make it so, a typical liberal ploy.
You got a point there. I've read about it some where not too long ago. Since religion has been the subject I've been interested in lately I'll make it a special effort to procure a copy of Talmud as well as a copy of the Holly Koran, so I don't have to rely on the word of mouth. Now, that ought to make me even more a Liberal ploy, reading about all them other Gods.
Chances are you don't have a copy of the Talmud yourself, but that doesn't matter, I got to hand it to you, that was a good catch. If you employ this same tactic you could put half of the FR in the same corner you put me. No guarantee that most would admit.
By the way, do you have a copy of Talmud, or have you ever read one cover to cover?
They are largely Roman Catholics, with some other Christian denominations. East Timor was a former Portugese colony. It seems that the Clintonites will not intervene, as they do not wish to offend the Indonesian effendis; plus, there is that Riyadhi business........
As a matter of fact, I do have a copy and have read it, also the Koran.
Do check your sources. The way you wright makes you appear to be against a 'Creator' in any form.
As a matter of fact, I do have a copy and have read it...
That must be very inspiring. Which volumes of the Talmud did you read?
Oh a baiter. Your the one who has made an assertion now you must back it up. Instead, in true liberal fashion, your trying to get the burdon of proof off of your back. So produce your proof.
You've never read the Koran and have no right to defend the muslim religion. In the hadith, the collected sayings of Mohammed, he states that it is pleasing to god to rape non-muslim women, kill non-muslim men and steal from non-muslims.
Mohammed was a dork.
INDONESIA TROOPS ATTACKING REFUGEES
By Geoff Spencer, Associated Press Writer
The Associated Press, via News Plus
Sunday, September 12, 1999
JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) -- The Indonesian army and their militia allies attacked refugees in a town once considered a safe haven in East Timor, a U.N. spokesman said Sunday, quoting refugees in the area.
Later Sunday, President B.J. Habibie was scheduled to hold crucial talks with a U.N. Security Council delegation and with Indonesia's top general, seeking ways out of the East Timor crisis.
From the Vatican to Washington, foreign leaders have showered a barrage of criticism on the Indonesian government for its failure to halt the savage slaughter sweeping East Timor following its vote for independence from Indonesia.
President Clinton was among those turning up the heat: He halted $100 million in arms sales to Jakarta and said for the first time that the United States might provide support -- including limited U.S. technical and intelligence personnel -- if a U.N. peacekeeping force is formed.
The U.N. delegation on Saturday elicited from the country's top military leader, Gen. Wiranto, a vague commitment to allow in foreign troops. But hours later, he backtracked, telling reporters he'd consider ``security cooperation,'' omitting the crucial reference to peacekeepers.
Though reports of atrocities are streaming out of devastated East Timor, the account from U.N. spokesman David Wimhurst in Darwin, Australia, was one of the most dramatic and immediate to date.
He said Indonesian troops were firing on refugees at Dare, a Roman Catholic seminary town where tens of thousands of refugees have sought shelter, located just 6 miles from the ravaged provincial capital of Dili.
``There's an attack going on in Dare by the army and by the militia,'' Wimhurst told The Associated Press. ``Obviously there is an urgent need for an armed intervention to prevent these atrocities from continuing.''
``We were told at 11:30 this morning that the militias and the TNI -- the armed forces -- were attacking the refugees. We have just received a third piece of information, from another refugee in that area, who's on the top of the mountains overlooking Dare,'' Wimhurst told CNN television.
``He has reported 10 minutes ago that he can hear shots being fired below him,'' Wimhurst said. People are screaming, and the Indonesian army is advancing up the mountain, slaughtering refugees. That is happening now, as we speak.''
Wimhurst accused the military of having a plan for a ``genocidal attack on the people of East Timor.''
There was no immediate word on possible casualties from Dare or immediate comment from Indonesian officials on the report.
Even relief agencies have been denied access to an estimated 300,000 refugees that have fled the province or are hiding in the hills. They have no food or water in many cases.
Fernando del Mundo, a spokesman for the U.N. relief agency, said no help could be offered without ``ironclad guarantees of the safety of relief workers and access to refugees.''
Aid agencies estimate that anywhere between 600 and 7,000 people have been killed and 100,000 driven into West Timor or to other islands, and 200,000 more chased from their homes.
In New York, the U.N. Security Council publicly demanded that the Jakarta government allow an international peacekeeping force to be immediately deployed to the former Portuguese colony.
But Indonesian Ambassador Makarim Wibisono ruled out any multinational force for the half-island territory for now, saying Indonesia's imposition of martial law on Tuesday was already helping improve the security situation in the territory.
A peacekeeping force ``may well exacerbate the situation and be counterproductive, however well-intentioned it may be,'' he said.
The European Union finance ministers said they will demand a suspension of International Monetary Fund aid to Indonesia if the bloodshed is not halted within the next two weeks.
The IMF has already frozen talks with Indonesia on releasing the rest of $12.3 billion loan package meant to help the country recover from an economic crisis suffered in 1997-98. Indonesia received a $460 million IMF loan in August and another installment was expected in November.
Carlos Belo, East Timor's Roman Catholic Bishop and joint winner of the 1996 Nobel Peace Prize, urged pro-independence supporters to use arms to defend themselves against the violence, the Portuguese daily Publico said Saturday.
``If others kill with weapons, why can't people defend themselves with weapons? There is self-defense, which even morals allow,'' said Belo, who is considered East Timor's spiritual leader.
In Dili, entire neighborhoods were burned to the ground and no pro-independence supporters appeared to be left. Numerous soldiers patrolled the streets, and some pro-Indonesia militiamen roamed about carrying automatic weapons.
In other spots, houses and shops appeared to have been destroyed in a more selective manner, with untouched buildings often flying the red-and-white Indonesian flag.
Witnesses gave horrific accounts of the last week, during which machete-wielding militias aided by Indonesian troops went on a rampage after a U.N.-organized referendum showed that four-fifths of East Timor's 800,000 people favored breaking from Indonesia.
In one of the most shocking reports, Australian Isa Bradridge said in an interview in the Sydney Morning Herald that his wife saw ``thousands of bodies'' piled in a large jail cell in the police station in Dili.
``Stacks of bodies up to the roof,'' Bradridge was quoted as saying. ``I know it is hard to believe, but it is absolutely true. My wife saw arms and legs dripping blood.''
If peacekeepers were allowed into the territory, the only country ready to go at a moment's notice is Australia.
Mary Robinson, the U.N. high commissioner for human rights, called off a Sunday trip to Dili to see for herself the extent of human rights violations there. Her office gave no reason. It was not clear if the trip had been postponed or canceled.
Indonesia invaded East Timor in 1975 as the Portuguese were making a quick exit from their troubled colony. More than 200,000 people are estimated to have died in the quarter-century since then in one of the world's most ignored conflicts.
Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.
We got Waco comming out Adolf clinton will need something to get Waco off the frontpages looks like another war possible.
Your the one who has made an assertion now you must back it up.
Well, I should, shouldn't I. Although my assumption was credible in my view considering that I have read about it at different times from different sources, it should have been taken with a grain of salt. But I didn't. As so as I become aware of my error, I did the next best honorable thing I could do. Admit it.
About a week ago I began to make make my first inquiry on the Talmud. I found out that Talmud is a collection of books, and even Rabbis are still debating on how many there are or should be. Which needless to say, left me more confused than before I started. So when you shot back at me with your line:
As a matter of fact, I do have a copy and have read it...
In my view that reduced you to two possibilities. You're either a well read big time Rabbi or a big time liar.
I don't think you're a Rabbi. I think you're one of those who won't admit, mentioned in thread # 24.
You guessed it. The media blitz is on the John Q Public will buy it again. China is the only holdout, without China's consent the UN smokescreen is not possible.
@0 million in Australia up against 200 million plus an American trained and equipped Indonesian Army. No wonder we lost in Vietnahm with strategic thinkers like you advising the nation.
What were they all before the Portuguese and Dutch got there? PS why didn't the Dutch Christianize the Indonesians?
Go volunteer! I volunteered for two wars that I believed in, now it is your turn buddy.
Go Volunteer!
Sounds like bigotry to me.
Go Volunteer!
Volunteer for what?
"May Their Souls Rest in Peace."
You've said it best.
Such murderous, barbaric butchery is all too common in man's world. It outrages us; we want the perpetrators to pay, and pay dearly. It's our way, especially as Americans. I don't feel, however, that we can continue to insert ourselves into every regional conflict around the globe. Of course, it's a moot point: we won't get involved unless Clinton has something new to keep out of the headlines. Sounds cynical as all hell, I realize, but it's the truth. Personally, I'd love to see the Aussies go in there and kick some major league a$$, but we have no dog in this fight.
Another thing, in islam every purely muslim country is called,'the land of peace,' and every country where there are both muslims and non-muslims is called the,'the land of war'. This is because wherever muslims and non-muslims live together the muslims must fight and destroy the non-muslims.
My dad is an expert on Islam and has told me through the years that they thought this way. I would, however, like to have a reference on this. How sad, he has also told me that both Catholics AND Muslims believe alike in regard to an earthly kingdom destiny for their religions. Therefore, they do not peacefully co-exist.
This is awful. Jesus does not in scripture anywhere advocate anything like this in regard to religion and any religion that does is from Satan.
The East Timor Liberation Army. They sure could use you. They need men with a passion to involve themselves in everyone elses business.
Carlos Belo, East Timor's Roman Catholic Bishop and joint winner of the 1996 Nobel Peace Prize, urged pro-independence supporters to use arms to defend themselves against the violence, the Portuguese daily Publico said Saturday.
Use arms? Perhaps he and others through their actions helped instigate this thing in the first place... Perhaps they KNEW that a vote for independence (which was NOT necessary to go on living a reasonably peaceful life)was going to cause the violence. How irresponsible.
What are we going to do when the predominately Catholic states of California or Texas (due to influx of Hispanics) one day also declare THEIR independence through influence of the clergy? What a mess.
In the Koran, which muslims consider the direct word of god, it is stated that no muslim should be friends with a non-muslim. All muslims are also ordered to 'humiliate' all non-muslims at every opportunity.
I'm very surprised at this characterization. I had some neighbors who were very traditional Muslims from the Middle East and found them to be among the nicest, most hospitable people I've met.
Duh? What passion and what business are you talking about? Are you sure you're addressing to the right screen name?
isn't it odd that religion is the single biggest killer of people in the history of the world. strange isn't it.
to do gods work one religion must destroy the others.
forgive me god, somthing is not right down here, I think you screwed up creating mankind. I.M.H.O.
forgive me god, somthing is not right down here, I think you screwed up creating mankind. I.M.H.O.
Actually, we the Mankind screwed up more than God ever did. We created other versions od Gods and invented them their own personalized versions of religion to support them, contradicting God's claim to be the only true God. Could it be that our current "little" genocides are God's way of getting even?
Yeah and link up with that The Democratic State of Mexico. The birthplace of New World Freedom.
As you said "it is clear which side is right" but it is not worth one American mother's son or daughter.
Given the opportunity for gain, man has always been a murdering butcher. Most Americans believe that God is in control on this earth. The truth is that satan is in control and will remain so until the Lord returns. This helps explain the sad state of the world.
We have sent troops into Iraq, Sudan, Haiti and Kosovo and what have we acomplished other than the murder of thousands of innocent men, women and children. I include troops that were conscriped by dictators in that number.
I looked at the first picture and couldn't look at the rest. This makes Kosovo look like a picnic in the park.
Dear L*rd, send your peace to these people, send your ministering Angels and Angels of protection. May G-d have mercy on them. Amen
Sorry this isn't a very good prayer, if anyone else has one post it, please. The horror is just mind numbing.
MsLady, love and protect your children, your grandchildren and even the children in your neighborhood but you cannot be the keeper of the world. People are murdering innocents all over the world every day and the methods they use really aren't important. Would you feel better if they were shot in the back of the head like the Nazis did or even gassed.
All you can do is pray for them and rest assured that the Lord will return someday and make everything right. For now Satan is in full control.
A prayer on their behalf: "Where eternal luster glows, the realm in which the light divine is set, place me, Purifier, in that deathless, imperishable world. Make me immortal in that realm where movement is accordant to wish, in the third region, in the third heaven of heavens, where the worlds are resplendent."
If 78% of the East Timorese people voted for independence then they should be ready to fight for their independence.
If the UN goes in to stop the killing they will never know independence. They will only have UN occupation.
"If 78% of the East Timorese people voted for independence then they should be ready to fight for their independence."
It will be difficult for them to fight with bare hands against a military with equipped with American and other western weapons. Please see:
E Timor - 36,000 links to news, editorials, opinion articles, etc.
Now that was depressing.
But, even seeing the atrocities, I still feel that 'American boys should not be sent to do a job Asian boys should be doing', to quote President Johnson.
"I still feel that 'American boys should not be sent to do a job Asian boys should be doing', to quote President Johnson."
A comment arises: "But American boys are sent to do jobs African, Arab, European, and Israeli boys should be doing."
I bet that they had GUN CONTROL
SEE: U.S. Complicity in Timor
We trained these killers. REAL gun control there.
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a37db04272fcb.htm
A comment arises: "But American boys are sent to do jobs African, Arab, European, and Israeli boys should be doing."
Choose your battles. As Sun Tzu says in Chapter Two (Waging War), in his masterpiece 'The Art of War':
2. Sun Tsu said: When you engage in actual fighting, and fight too long, or fight too many enemies, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength.
3. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain.
4. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity.
isn't it odd that religion is the single biggest killer of people in the history of the world. strange isn't it.
Religion doesn't kill. people kill.
"isn't it odd that religion is the single biggest killer of people in the history of the world. strange isn't it."
Come again? An estimated 200,000,000 lives were snuffed out or drastically shortened in this century alone at the hands of devout atheists (Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc. etc.)
Oh yeah. I guess you forgot. ;-)
Excuse me. My prior post was obviously intended for a seriously deluded bumpa31, not you.
That's right. Atheists kill also.
Therefore...
Religion doesn't kill. People kill.
"Religion doesn't kill. People kill."
On the other hand, a person's underlying belief system or philosophy--be it atheism, theism, or whatever--can make make it easier or more difficult for that person to justify the killing of other people. In the case of atheistic fascism and communism, the liquidation of masses of people was viewed as an affirmative duty necessary to advance the superior interests of the state (fascism) or the proletarian ideal (communism). Some doctrines of theistic religion have also been interpreted to justify the killing of the so-called "infidels." I am a Christian and I have never found any doctrine in my belief structure that would justify the killing of another human being except in self-defense or in perhaps in defense of the life of another (as in the concept of "just war"). On the contrary, I have found much that counsels me to be ready to sacrifice my own life for the life of another.
I have tended to find that whenever someone makes an absolutist remark along the lines of "religion has killed more . . . etc., they also tend to believe that but for the existence of religious belief, the world be translated into some John Lennon Nirvana: "Imagine no heaven . . . it's easy if you try . . . no hell below us . . . above us only sky . . . Imagine people, living for today . . . ."
However, dear Comrade Volodya Lenin (courtesy of his bellicose Uncle Karl Marx) was singing that tune fifty years before John Lennon ever learned it. It wasn't true then, it isn't true now. If anything, religious belief (particularly Christian belief) has served more as a brake on wanton killing than its accelerant--particularly in this century.
"Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. - Sun Tzu"
Confuse-us say: "ChiCom is 'other chieftain' my son Tzu tthock abou', so send in Chinee boys. - confuse@chi.com"
News Plus
Where I come from we call the murdering butchers in East Timor heathens. What religion is that.
Where I come from we call the murdering butchers in East Timor heathens. What religion is that?
Amen. These wars will escalate and it doesn't matter who the victims are. Sometimes they are jews, sometimes muslems, sometimes christians or animists.
The only thing they share is that THEY WERE THE POPULATIONS AT THE FLASH POINT between differing cultures. Cultures which are growing on top of one another. Cultures who compete for clean water, and food.
This isn't going to end. It will increase as 6 billion becomes 8 billion. As Bugis try to hunt on Makassa land. On and on and on it goes.
Penicillin did this.
Many Muslims are very nice people but collectively, their cultures, their peoples and their nations are very aggressive and want more territory. Much of this is due to higher Muslim birth rates and part to the religion.
Ignore Muslim aggression at your own peril.
As far as East Timor, the USA could accomplish quite a bit with a lousy one billion dollars worth of military action. However, this would upset the Riady family and other members of the Indonesian oligarchy. So we will do nothing or very little.
Notice how Clinton plays both sides of the issue. Now he gets some credit for NOT intervening. What scum!
For the record, the world is divided into two parts: dar al-Islam, which means "house of submission" (to the will of Allah), and dar al-Harb, "house of strife".
The reasoning is that people who submit to the will of God will live at peace with him and themselves, whereas those who do not will live in perpetual strife. Based on the history of the past 1400 years, this reasoning seems flawed.
ya right, tell that to the irish.
tell that to the jews
tell that to the people of tibet.
all these people die on a daily basis because of thier religonist beliefs, and its always by people with different religious beliefs.
tell that to the 10's of thousands who died at the hands of the spanish inquistion, ect.ect.ectera, ectera.
According to British and Australian papers, the first unit in will be a Gurkha commando.
I would love to be watching when a so-called "militia" goes up against the Gurkhas.
The US will confine itself to airlift, logistics support and intelligence, which is as it ought to be.
A superpower ought not to contribute troops to a Blue Beret job.