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"I could have done that," Vice President Al Gore told USA Today for its Friday edition. "I thought about that, and because a lot of those decisions were made with political influence, I could have done that, but it did not feel right."
The "that" to which Gore referred was an opportunity to join his home state's National Guard. Instead Gore was shipped to Vietnam after he volunteered for the Army in 1969; a decision he hopes will contrast favorably with George W. Bush's service record as a pilot in the Texas Air National Guard.
But the vicepPresident best tread lightly as he uses his Vietnam experience to play the egalitarian card. Because, according to a recent Los Angeles Times report that the rest of the press pretended not to notice, Gore's Vietnam tour of duty was notable mainly for the special treatment he received; a "handle with care" order that required bodyguards to keep the senator's son from getting hurt.
"Several of his (Vietnam) colleagues remember they were assigned to make sure this son of a prominent politician was never injured in the war," reported Times correspondent Richard Serrano, in a lengthy piece headlined, "Struggle With Conscience was Gore's Biggest Vietnam Battle."
"Other soldiers with long experience in Vietnam said that Gore was treated differently from his fellow enlistees," Serrano noted. "Two of them recalled that before Gore arrived Brig. General Kenneth B. Cooper advised them that a senator's son would be joining the outfit.
"H. Alan Leo said soldiers were ordered to serve as Gore's bodyguards, to keep him out of harm's way. 'It blew me away,' Leo said. 'I was to make sure he didn't get into a situation he could not get out of. They didn't want him to get into trouble. So we went into the field after the fact (after combat actions), and that limited his exposure to any hazards.'" (Los Angeles Times -- October 15, 1999)
During his first run for the White House in 1988, Gore didn't hesitate to remind reporters about his service in Vietnam, which he tended to mischaracterize as combat oriented. "I was shot at. I spent most of my time in the field," he told the Washington Post eleven years ago.
"I carried an M-16... I pulled my turn on the perimeter at night and walked through the elephant grass and I was fired upon," Gore told the Baltimore Sun during the same period. To Vanity Fair he revealed, "Something would move, we'd fire first and ask questions later."
But eight Vietnam vets who served with the vice president told the Los Angeles Times that Gore was never in the middle of a battle. These days, Gore admits his wartime service was primarily as a reporter.
But Gore has yet to respond to allegations that bodyguards kept him out of harm's way in Vietnam, a charge which -- except for the Los Angeles Times -- has gone largely unreported by the press.
All Rights Reserved © NewsMax.com
"the man who wants to follow in Bill Clinton's footsteps"
Well, he's got the "lie about your past to make yourself look good" part down. Now, he really has to work harder on the "intimidate witnesses so they shut up" part. Good thing he's still got the "you're a Democrat so the press will ignore your lies" going for him.
"I carried an M-16... I pulled my turn on the perimeter at night and walked through the elephant grass and I was fired upon," Gore told the Baltimore Sun during the same period. To Vanity Fair he revealed, "Something would move, we'd fire first and ask questions later."
But eight Vietnam vets who served with the vice president told the Los Angeles Times that Gore was never in the middle of a battle. These days, Gore admits his wartime service was primarily as a reporter.
So what did he shoot and who got blamed for it?
He lies and he gets caught, no end run or nothin. The Press has its hands full trying to get this clown elected.
Here's the link to the article mentioned above:
So what did he shoot and who got blamed for it? He shot off his mouth. And he sat on his A&&..
No one got blamed for it.... no one listened.
Gore was a REMF in 'Nam ... also, if my memory serves me correctly, didn't Gore only serve 5 months in country? A typical tour of duty was twelve months with the Marines serving thirteen.
Thanks for the great link.
Whadda Wus!
I have to disagree with this, but I'd like to say that I hate to be put in the position of defending Al Gore. Here goes:
We have to expect that the military would seek to limit the exposure to risk of the son of a Senator. It is no fault of Al Gore's that this was done, and no one is making an allegation that he acted to get special treatment. If it had been Al Gore's intent to avoid being shot at, he could have more satisfactorily achieved that goal by remaining a civilian in the United States than by enlisting in the Army while it was involved in a police action in Vietnam. We can also anticipate that Gore could have avoided assignment to Vietnam if he so chose, and that his father could have prevented him from being assigned to Vietnam if he so chose.
This story embarrasses me. We should attack Gore for raising money in a Buddhist temple, for being an eco-nut, for tolerating and enabling Bill Clinton's perjury and possible treason, but he acted honorably during Vietnam as far as I can see. That he could have avoided service in Vietnam but didn't is enough for me.
"I carried an M-16....I pulled my turn on the perimeter
at night....we'd fire first and ask questions later...
I poured my soul into the combat experience...I planted
tobacco over there.... and harvested it....while over
there I had my first ideas about how invent the
Internet, and my buddy Erich Segal got the idea of modelling
the Oliver character in "Love Story" after me....I taught
the Vietnamese about global warming..." etc.etc.etc.
You are correct, Bob. Besides I had my own body guards when I was there...Carl and Pat, my two best friends.
"We have to expect the military to seek to limit the
exposure to risk of the son of a Senator"---
We do???WHY?????Do we also have to expect the son of
of Senator to lie and buff up his image by grossly exaggerating his combat experience?Gore KNEW he would be
given preferential treatment, and he KNEW that he would
one day be able to make political capital out of the
fact that he was in Vietnam. Gimme the proverbial break.
Is there a possibility that this whole VietNam thingy was staged for Gore? Could it be possible that since he was groomed almost from birth to follow his father into the senate, that they could forsee trouble if Al, Jr. didn't "do his duty" in VietNam? Could it have happened that the senior Al devised this plan whereby his son would go there, but would have all this protection, thereby insuring his safety while there?
Just a few questions that tumbled through my mind.
Perhaps we should let the rest of the gang in on exactly what a REMF (pronounced rem~ph) is.
In deference to Jim's policy - REMF =
Rear Echelon Mother F~[`er
Greg Adams
aka ImpBill
I believe you're wrong on this point - defending Al Gore's lies about his heroic service.
There is NO royalty in this country - yet. Al Gore's ass had no more right to be spared risk than any other mother's son that went there without "portfolio".
His whole enlistment/service was a sham, to remain politically viable (where have you heard this concept before) - while at the same time, permit the "protective custody" afforded him by virtue of being a crooked senator's son.
I feel no risk of being contradicted when I say, that there were men serving in Vietnam that later contributed far more to this country than AlGore ever dreamed or lied about accomplishing. And sadly, we lost some men that I am 100% certain were more deserving of being spared than Al Gore.
Semper Fi
you miss the point, really. nobody cares what anyone did in RVN anymore. that was proven when the slick one was elected. time to concentrate on other issues. sure, you may care...me to, but in the big picture, RVN service has been made un-important...way it goes.
While you are correct in your assertion that he "did his duty" and served, I as a veteran that served in the Combat Arms must take exception to his boasting of his service to his country as a reporter. He, like a good number of vets who never saw action, seem to get some perverse pleasure out of exaggerating their service.
Yes you are marginally correct that Algore in this regard is better than Bill "the puking draft dodger" Clinton, but only marginally.
I ask you, how many combat vets have you know that sit around and remotely talk about their actual combat experience. I to this day (30 years later) still have some difficulty speaking even with brother vets about my experiences much less anyone that would not have a clue understanding what I am talking about, but Algore seems to think that he can put on his legionnaire's cap, tell a couple of bold faced lies about his service and gain the respect and votes of fellow vets. I think NOT
Gore KNEW he would be given preferential treatment, and he KNEW that he would one day be able to make political capital out of the fact that he was in Vietnam.
So your position is that Al Gore (mental heavyweight that he is) decided to ENLIST in the United States Army during an extremely unpopular war, because his vast foresight revealed to him that at some point in the future, when he ran for President, he might be able to use the character reference of said military service?
That's nuts. Even if your lunatic theory was correct, he could have waited for the draft without being shamed. Or if enlistment seemed to him to be the sole course that would help him achieve the nefarious purpose you hypothesize, he could have enlisted in the Air Force, or the Navy, which had very low casualty rates in Vietnam.
Give him some credit, for crying out loud. He went, and he didn't have to. That's more than we can say for George W. Bush and Pat Buchanan, goddamnit.
Gore probably went to Vietnam mainly to preserve his future viablity as a candidate for national office. Billy-Boy had the same goal during the Vietnam War era too, that being the preservation of his future viability for election to national office. Obviously, both Al and Slick "pulled some strings" to stay out of any serious harms way. Whether Gore Jr. or Gore Sr. actually "pulled some strings" is immaterial. The result was still the same...Gore Junior is guilty of elitism whether by action or inaction. Gore Junior could have refused favortism, but he obviously DIDN'T! The only real difference between Al Gore and Billy-Boy is that Billy-Boy was much, much more slicker in how he accomplished his goal. Billy-Boy's superior slickness versus Gore explains why Clinton is president and Gore is just vice-president.
" nobody cares what anyone did in RVN anymore."
Your wrong there brother. There are still plenty of us out here in the hinterlands that still silently cry for the sacrifices so many gave to so few who cared.
...what I resent is having to fight the very same enemy here that we faught in Vietnam that now occupies, in the miliary sense, our White House. ....As an early 1960's Jesuit University classmate of now Gore Year 2000 Campaign Director TONY COELHO I further resent my correctly going on to fight the Godless Communists invading a Free South Vietnam in the 1st Major Battle of the War at IA DRANG-1965 ...only to have TONY COELHO incorrectly go on to cut-off the funds in Congress for the Freedom Fighters then fighting the Godless Communists invading Free Central America south of San Diego, California USA. ....BODYGUARDS?... WE are the ones who need the Bodyguards from these Guys!
b
All the pictures I've seen of Alpha-Al,the Senators Son were either taken on the first day he arrived, or his valet did a simply supurb job in keeping him tidy.
re your #19. I should have realized the color of your stipe when I read your referring to our involvement in VietNam as a "police action".
In all deference to you, I beg you to leave this topic alone. You have made your point. Please just take a bit of heat and let it drop. The "well so-and-so did it" excuse is a worn one used to death by the Clintonistas. We are talking about Algore making political hay from exagerating his service for political gain.
You will really be opening yourself up for a real load of grief from a number of vets if you continue to prop up Algore on this issue.
A lot of replies to my posts on this article have talked about Gore not living up to the honor or example of veterans, by talking about it afterwards. That's silly.
How did George Washington get elected? Andrew Jackson? Ulysses S. Grant or Dwight Eisenhower? And the "talking" point is superfluous, anyway, because this article is really about Gore getting protective treatment while he was enlisted in the Army, serving in Vietnam.
It seems embarassing and shameful to me that a man would be attacked in this way. What COULD he have done that would satisfy you? He went, he served, he never asked for favorable treatment--to me Gore seems like a guy who went to a lot of trouble to do the right thing, despite the possible machinations of the draft board and his own father.
Golly almost as Yello as the pervert in chief Klintoon
During the Kosovo war, I used a sign that read "Bill Clinton REMF in Chief". More than a few Vietnam Vets exited the White House tour gate with broad smiles.
The point is not that he had "bodyguards" and fairly safe duty. The point is he gave the impression, according to the Post and Sun references, that he did more than he really did and was in greater danger than he really apparently was.
I was Navy 71-73 and had the very good fortune, though I was a nobody who knew nobody, to spend my time in the US. I know I was lucky and don't begrudge anybody's good luck but he's just a confabulator. Screw him.
ImpBill wrote:
re your #19. I should have realized the color of your stipe when I read your referring to our involvement in VietNam as a "police action".
I was trying to explain it from Gore's point of view. Wasn't that how it was described at the time? I wasn't born until 1970, so I'm relying on reading about it, not living through it. And as far as I'm concerned, I'm defending people who served in Vietnam, not attacking them.
Otherwise, I resent your assertion and remind you that despite my youth I am allowed to have and present an opinion on these matters.
He may have never asked for preferential treatment but he got it. I quote the article - "Two of them recalled that before Gore arrived Brig. General Kenneth B. Cooper advised them that a senator's son would be joining the outfit. H. Alan Leo said soldiers were ordered to serve as Gore's bodyguards, to keep him out of harm's way."
How do you think General Cooper knew about Gore's arrival, as a reporter?
Aw this is a waste of time and JimRob's bandwidth. You just don't get it. REMF's bragging up their service for political gain will never be anything but REMF's in my eye.
DE RedLeg5 K
Thanks you very much. Many young men served in Viet Nam who should not have been there. If your old man was a Congressman, a research scientist, ran a bank, maybe a high ranking military officer, and you got caught by the VC or NVA, the Commies could have blackmailed your father.
This was not hypothetical. Because our cowards in Congress refused to pass an honest declaration of war, it was not possible to coral Fifth Columnists and Traitors like Jane Fonda, so there was regular information commerce between people here and the enemy. The VC and NVA knew who, they could find out where, and they undertook to do so. Congress refused to protect our military people at that time.
So, when you get a fellow like Al Gore Jr. who served in the Nam, whether he wanted to be there or not, if he were to serve on an equal basis with everyone else, it was required that he serve in an activity removed from direct contact with primary VC and NVA units, and also that he be protected!
As far as folks WANTING to be in Nam, there were some. But, any smart guy, as soon as he sensed that the US Congress had no respect for his fundamental rights, and didn't give a big r--'s a-s for him - didn't want to be there either unless he had a "personal" reason for it.
I had a neighbor who was stitched by the VC when he went there as a Marine Corps enlisted man. He got out. Recovered. Got a degree. Recovered some more. Got a commission. Then, he went back to "get some" in revenge, and he did so!
Holding Al Gore accountable for the treachery and treason of the Democratic Party during the Viet Nam War is in error. Hold him accountable for his own sins in the here and now.
Bless you. That was an excellent idea.
It seems that some folk just don't get what bothers some of us about Algore exagerating his service the way he apparently is. Clinton has no honor. Gore has no pride.
Bob present your opinion to your hearts content, for you will never know from where I speak. I hope you never do.
Tail Gunner Gore.
And please, guys, don't lump the rear echelon IGore as a supposed reporter (by the way, where did he publish his reports?), with the real up front reporters and photogs like the ones that worked with my USMC Info Officer Bro. Working out of Danang, his unit took more casualties, percentage-wise, and saw more field action than most other units. They carried their typewriters and cameras (and appropriate arms) into the most dangerous areas and battles and proved themselves to be true Marines and true reporters. They got and deserved their share of medals for heroism.
SEMPER FI!
ImpBill wrote:
Aw this is a waste of time and JimRob's bandwidth. You just don't get it. REMF's bragging up their service for political gain will never be anything but REMF's in my eye.
How many guys volunteered to go there? Al Gore did. He's certainly turned into a piece of crap in the thirty years since, I'm not arguing that at all, but at the time he did the right thing. Sure the senior officers knew he'd be there--the Pentagon probably told them to make sure Gore didn't get hurt or captured.
You had a rough time and did a brave thing and you resent that other people got off easy, and there's nothing wrong with that. But Al Gore had more options than most people--he could have stayed in the States, or he could have even gone to England and staged anti-war protests with his pants off. He did none of that, and so I, who came of age well after Reagan ended the draft and have myself given no military service, resent that people would attack him for circumstances beyond his control. You could attack me for not serving in Vietnam, but I was born about the time Bill Clinton was ending his visit to the Soviet Union in 1970, and so that would not be rational. It's not rational to attack Gore for the nature of his Vietnam service, either.
My father volunteered for the military when he was 17, but his service ended during the Kennedy administration. If he hadn't volunteered, he might have been drafted for Vietnam, been killed, and I would never have been born. It's all a roll of the dice when you enter the military. Al Gore was lucky, and the odds were adjusted without him knowing about it, but he threw the dice all the same. I believe him when he says every other solution didn't feel right.
"Al Gore was lucky, and the odds were adjusted without him knowing about it, but he threw the dice all the same."
What proof do you have that "odds were adjusted without him knowing about it"?
As an ex-USAF Cargo Pilot in Vietnam (19th TAS 1970-71), I must remind everyone that America and Vietnam were members of SEATO. The South East Asia Treaty Organization meant the US was obligated to come to Vietnam's defense when attacked by another country. At first our effort was observation, then there was the fake Gulf of Tonkin incident.
Al Gore was just getting his "ticket punched". His shortened tour and current exaggerations show he's "all show, no go". I saw 37 US soldiers who died after a year's tour on their going home flight...
...muawiyah..."Hold him accountable for his sins in the here and now" ....WELL DONE! Precisely my point!!! When the very Enemy we faught in Vietnam now occupies our White House in the Military Sense...you fight on! I only resent that our media, except for FoX News Channel and specifically BILL O'REILLY, is sleeping with the enemy before a Blind Citizenry. God Bless the Internet and Talk Radio-TV, both something HILLARY, POTUS and V-POTUS didn't count on? Vet-Battle of IA DRANG-1965.
Mock Algore in song HERE.
Tralfaze wrote:
What proof do you have that "odds were adjusted without him knowing about it"?
None. But note that the command to keep him safe was given before he got there. Also note my earlier comment that had it been his desire to remain safe, the goal could more easily have been achieved from the Hay-Adams Hotel than Vietnam. If he wanted to be safe, he never would have joined the Army--he would have gone to Oxford, smoked pot and date-raped English girls with his buddy, Clinton. It seems to me that there was a campaign outside of Al Gore to keep Al Gore safe.
Bob Your thinking is a tortuous path that leads into a minefield and best left untrodden.
We had a big name football "all american" that came into outfit with a flagged personel file. The only combat he ever saw was occasional drunken brawl at officers club. Most resented little junior standing around with his thumb in his mouth.
Sorry, Piney Bob, I'm embarassed that senator's sons aren't treated the same as everyone else. If they were, perhaps we'd have a lot fewer Kosovos, Haitis and idiot military strategies in places like Vietnam. For example, if Robert McNamara's son had to serve in the military instead of marching against his father's war, it might have been a different war. This is a democracy; congressional representatives are not our rulers, but our representatives. We don't have royalty here or any type of aristocracy, this is a republic and a supposed meritorcracy. You say you're embarassed by this story? I'm embarrassed by your apparent lack of understanding of our political system.
In his shallow mind Algore ranks right up there with Audy Murphy, Sgt.Alvin York and General Patton.Wow! He really impresses me.I've got more respect for Gomer Pyle.
..."police action"(?)
No. You've got your wars confused. The Korean War was referred to as a "Police Action". The Vietnam War was referred in the vernacular as the "Vietnam War", "Vietnam Conflict", "LBJ's War", or some other more unprintables. Making this mistake is probably not your fault. But, you can blame your local public school system for the ignorance spread about this conflict. It was never referred to as a "Police Action".
And as far as I'm concerned, I'm defending people who served in Vietnam, not attacking them.
I appreciate your sentiment, as do others, I am sure. What we resent are those who exaggerate to exploit.
As an earlier poster mentioned, being from a "famous" family could (and was) used against you in captivity. This is strictly against the Geneva Convention, of course, but the enemy never worried about the Convention Laws anyway. For example, John McCain (the now-Senator) was the son of Admiral McCain - who was CINCPACAF. While in that position, his son was shot down. (In case you don't know, it was Adm McCain who was actually the one responsible for running the War at the time). His son (John) was right out in front in harm's way, and paid the price when he was captured. He never got special treatment like Brother Al. But you can be sure the North Vietnamese gave him "special treatment".
I served there with a few others whose immediate relatives were highly connected as high politicians or generals and they risked exploitation if caught. They knew it but to them it didn't matter. They took their chances along with the rest of us 'unconnected' ones.
The point is, Gore WAS connected, and rather than serve like anyone else, he got special privileges (whether he requested them or not). He must have known it at the time, and he apparently took no steps to stop it, which he probably could have done. Instead, he now chooses to exaggerate his actual record... something most genuine combat veterans will never do, if they will even talk much about it at all, except to a few other veterans. It stands to reason; nobody ever asks, so you don't intrude by bragging about your own exploits, as sterling as they may be. You had too many friends who didn't make it to (in a sense) preempt them when they are the ones that deserve the real recognition, and you were just the lucky one that made it.
To this day even my wife and (grown) kids know almost nothing of my service there, although I could tell many stories way into the night. But they don't ask, and I don't intrude with my exploits. I'm sure many vets would say the same thing.
So, yes, we resent mouthy politicians.
I think Al Gore indisputably played it safe when he elected to be a reporter during war time. Also, like I alluded to previously, Al Gore isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer...he is certainly no Slick Willie. Slick Willie took an even safer route than Al Gore, to avoid dangerous service, because Willie's no-sh!t smarter than Gore (in an evil way of course). Billy-boy's slickness during the Vietnam War era is one of the reasons he got the nickname Slick Willie. Al's nickname is merely AlBore. Just because Gore didn't join the National Guard during the Vietnam War era doesn't necessarily prove he was virtuous or patriotic...it may only be evidence that Gore was/is an extraordinarily dumb dodger of personal danger.
b
Bob, you just won't let it go will you? Let me try once again.
Algore did not serve in combat. Whether it was by his choice or not is not my point.
Algore said, "I carried an M-16... I pulled my turn on the perimeter at night and walked through the elephant grass and I was fired upon," Gore told the Baltimore Sun during the same period. To Vanity Fair he revealed, "Something would move, we'd fire first and ask questions later."
The article continues, "But eight Vietnam vets who served with the vice president told the Los Angeles Times that Gore was never in the middle of a battle."
Algore, as with his inventing the internet, is grossly exaggerating his service in VietNam for political gain. My point is that he is a man without honor and pride in so doing. I have spent 30 years listening to "bar room braggadocio's" talk about their combat experience. It usually doesn't take 5 minutes to figure out that the fellow never made it out of the Rear Area. Most combat vets don't even speak about their experiences much less brag about them.
Read the article once again and see if you can remotely understand what I am attempting to point out.
I am glad your father didn't have to serve. I wish as things have turned out that so many didn't have to serve. To equate Algore's service with that of those who were actually in the combat arms is ludicrous. And that is what Algore would have us believe.
Both fortunately and unfortunately there are not many who know and understand the difference.
Again my problem is not that Algore got a cushy job and I am certainly not jealous that I didn't have the opportunity to be a REMF. What chaps my flanks is that Algore is bragging up his service by attempting to suggest that he was in the thick of battle, which he was not.
He is certainly entitled to list service to his country in VietNam on his resume', but he is not entitled to in anyway compare himself to those brave, patriotic Americans who really did serve in battle. He has not earned that right. Most that did earn the right don't brag it up anyway. My God it was WAR and not a friggin "police action".
I am most sincere when I say I hope you never have to find out from where I am coming. Sometimes I wonder if even I do.
Again, so many gave so much to so few that cared. Algore was not one of them and he has no right to assert that just by being there as a politically protected REMF that he was.
You know Bob, I really do think I am wasting time and bandwidth in attempting to explain this to you, but you keep coming back for more. I guess what really bothers me, other than you taking the role of Devils Advocate in a situation that you know nothing about other than what you have read, is that you had the temerity to state, "You had a rough time and did a brave thing and you resent that other people got off easy" without even knowing me or what action I did or did not see. It is a shame to exert your right to "present your opinion" in such a cavalier and condescendingly manner. Far too many good men have served and paid the ultimate price for you to claim that freedom with such a cavalier attitude.
I am quite certain that you never will understand at all what I am talking about.
FreeRegards,
Greg Adams
DE RedLeg5 KN
(DE = "This is"; RedLeg5=radio call sign for an Artillery Executive Officer; KN
= morse code for "out" - no reply necessary) Please don't as I am in selfimposed
radio silence with you on this subject.
Greetings from another that served in DaNang, PhuBai/Hue, and ChuLai. Oh Paul, I know there were a number of service reporters that were in the thick of things. But even those survivors, I am quite certain don't brag up or exaggerate their service as Algore is. Please accept my most sincere and humble apology if I in anyway demeaned the service of anyone. I am just sickened by Algore's attempt to equate himself with combat veterans.
yeah...so many of us that Slick got elected anyway....it only counts when the majority cares....and yeah, you might as well stay silent....cuz it doesn't matter...neither does drug use as a young man, or philandering(at any point in a man's life) these things have been rendered inconsequential...you might not like it ..(I don't particularly) but it is the way it is....remeinds me of the tale of the Great White Whale...it has a ferocious appetite...yet it's throat is only as big around as a quarter...and you know what?...that's just the way it is!
"To this day even my wife and (grown) kids know almost nothing of my service there, although I could tell many stories way into the night. But they don't ask, and I don't intrude with my exploits. I'm sure many vets would say the same thing."
Well said brother. There are many of us that don't want our wives and families to know the horror of war. I don't want Winey Bob to know those horrors and I don't think he would attempt profit from them as Algore is. Or?
I can't wait to see what kind of "bimbo eruptions" come up!
Someone perkier than tipper?Someone frumpier than Hillery?
Some enviromentalist chick with big tits wearing a peasant blouse,named Moonbeam?
Here's a pic for you all:
Piney Bob hgas raised a lot of emotion here with his response to me.
Can anyone help me out here. Just this past week I heard or read that Al Gore wanted to flee to Canada to dodge the draft, but that his dad wouldn't hear of it because it would hurt Juniors political viability.
My take on this post is that the body guards and short tour of duty were tokens from Al Gore Senior to protect junior, and to keep him electable. Does anyonne else remember hearing about Junior's desire to dodge? I may have heard that on Rush, but can't be sure.
You are right there! I have often wondered that same thing. Clinton has the Secret Service to protect him from us. Just who is supposed to protect us from him!
Lets say for examply, when Kathleen Willy was grabbed & Groped in the Oval Office, what would have happened if she had the skills necessary to whomp Billy but good. Who would have been arrested? HER!
Nobody has a problem with who served, and who did not serve in Nam. It the fact that he's going around bragging about his service, exaggerating his deeds, and claiming dangers he did not face. Making up war stories is just kind of sick don't you think? Especially when you asking the guys who did face those dangers to trust you. No, you don't have to be a war hero to be president, but you do have to be truthful.
Think you got enough junk in that ruck?
Was just thinking of that song,Not country Joe but someone? "Blah,blah,I aint't no Senator's son,no no.
Maybe word got around even then.
as far as al's future,he was the son of a politician for gods sake,he KNEW what the future could hold for himself.
What's up, tet68?
As far as algore's future, he's political roadkill, I'm happy to say.
Yeah he volunteered. He knew he would be well taken care of.This limp-wristed bastard had nothing to worry about.
What did he shoot and who got blamed for it!!?? He started out with NINE body guards and one went into the tall stuff for a nature call. He heard, he thought and he Clintooned!!
First it was 'nam. Then came Love Story. Then it was the Internet. He discovered No Controlling authority. And now we find out he was the first Clintoon. All in all, he is a perfect waste of sperm.
Gritty, I belive you are speaking the truth. My father, and other family members that served, very seldom mention their service. I have been told by others that my father was a war hero...He kept no medals and did not talk about his service.
And what's Carl Limbacher's Vietnam service? He can write about this because he attacks Al Gore, but I can't because I defended him? You're the one with the tortured logic.
As for complaints that I don't understand what sort of government we have, well, I do. We have a pretty good republic, but it's corrupt in ways similar to many other governments, and what that means is that Senator's sons don't die in combat. I will stand by my assertion that Al Gore should be given credit for his military service. I also agree that he's a piece of shit today.
Also, ImpBill, you lambast me for giving you the benefit of the doubt on your service, even though you'd been beating me over the head with it, Al Gore style, all night long. Take your pick: either a) you're a hard-bitten Vietnam vet who went through a rough time, or b) you didn't see any action at all. Doesn't really matter to me one way or the other, because my argument stands up regardless, but if you're going to write nasty things about me because I don't give you credit for being there, and then nasty things because I do, I think it would be nice if you fully clarified the situation for me.
I heard on C-Span, on Washington Journal, Wednesday or Thursday morning, A man called in that used to work for Al Gore's father and said that Al Gore Jr. wanted to go to Canada to get out of going to Viet Nam.
Elvis served his enlistment in Europe, armor I believe. Came out a E6, I think. Knew a governors kid who served 10 mos before being getting chewed up pretty good. He came back just before I ETS'd. 6 mos in a stateside hospital did the trick. (I call him a hero, now, but a fool at the time.) Ali, Cassius Clay to us old geezers, refused service because of his religious convictions contiued to fight for his personal gain. (Suspended from boxing for a couple of years due to being 'unpatriotic'.) Al Gore went into the service and because of his fathers 'status' was given 8 people who had to look out for his butt and still keep theirs attached. THAT is the gripe concerning 'elite' folks in the military. What 'price' did he pay to even consider himelf equal to the men who's job was to protect him??
I don't care what he did in the service. I don't care why he went in. I just don't give a damn about him at all, to be honest. Another democrat, Max Cleland the other Senator from GA. Has only one arm and bound to a wheel chair as a result of a hand grenade going off in his face while clearing a trail in 'nam. (A 2nd Lt. showing the 'people' how it was done.) A Bona Fide 'hero', he has voted for every Clintoon bill, suggestion or thought since election. Recently, a man came forward saying that he saw the grenade that got him and it didn't belong to Max!! This "war hero" was under the assumption that he fragged himself, a dumb boy stunt that he lived through! He ran for office and was elected, thinking he was dumb enough to crawl on his own grenade! A really stupid war hero don't you think? It gives you an idea of the kind of representation that they think we deserve. The 'hero' probably won't get reelected due to his record AND the fact that he is to stupid to allow out of the house.
Al Gore was at a park and they wanted to shoot a picture of him in a boat. There wasn't enough water to float the boat, so they released a few million gallons and got the picture. Parts of the country were in a major 'drought' mode but he got a picture showing what a good enviornmentalist does when out among the peons. This Elitist Fop has been living on the backs of his betters long enough. He didn't serve his country, the 8 men who guarded him served it for him and did their service too! (I bet Tipper calls Kitty Kitty when wanting him to come to table for supper.)
So your position is that Al Gore (mental heavyweight that he is) decided to ENLIST in the United States Army during an extremely unpopular war, because his vast foresight revealed to him that at some point in the future, when he ran for President, he might be able to use the character reference of said military service?
That's nuts.
Why do you say such Machiavellian logic is nuts? It is exactly what inspired our current Commander-in-Briefs in his disgusting letter from Oxford in which he stiffed the University of Arkansas ROTC.
Gore is not as slick as Clintoon, but he is every bit as ambitiously grasping ....
"... I ain't no Senator's son .."
Fortunate Son, Creedence Clearwater Revival
Otherwise, I resent your assertion and remind you that despite my youth I am allowed to have and present an opinion on these matters.
What your youthful opinion cannot see is that there was a time in this country when personal honor was important. Any man seeking public office who was caught lying about something like this would have no longer been taken seriously. There was a time when it was believed that a man who did not have honor was not qualified to represent others.
You apparently do not know this, do not understand this, don't think this is important or just plain don't care.
Neither can you take a hint.
JEEZUS, Piney Bob, what planet are you on???
Don't you know WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE BY NOW???!!
My contention is that YES , Gore would most likely
NOT have gone without the protection of preferential
treatment, something accorded to very, very few over
there. Are you unaware of the concept of "grooming" a
politician and how it's accomplished?? Sorry, but I give
him NO
credit---he's an idiot--and it's especially galling
since the newspaper accounts in today's papers all
talk only about how "it didn't "feel" right for him to
"cop out" in the National Guard.....
So your position is that Al Gore (mental heavyweight that he is) decided to ENLIST in the United States Army during an extremely unpopular war, because his vast foresight revealed to him that at some point in the future, when he ran for President, he might be able to use the character reference of said military service?
That's nuts.
You appear to be pretty naïve about these things. He and his father weren't thinking about Presidential aspirations - at that time they were only planning on a seat in the Senate.
Do you really think he was kept in the dark about special treatment? Why do suppose he served less than half a tour?
"C'mon Dad, don't you think I've been here long enough? It's dangerous over here, and I miss you and Mom. I want to come home now."
The next claim he'll make is that his VietNam experience as a reporter was the basis for the lead character in 'Full Metal Jacket'.
Next thing you know, "Vietnam reporter" Gore will say "the pen is mightier than the sword, anyway."
Dear ImpBill:
You remind me of my father in that regard. It's been 45 years since he was in Korea; nevertheless, when he recalls certain stories, it still brings him to tears.
I was well into my 20's before I saw my father cry; it was a shock! Talking about his friend, Blue, dying in Korea or about "Old Baldy" reduced him to open weeping.
I never understood why he was so tight-lipped about his time at war. That day, I understood completely...why dredge up something so horrible, only to relive the pain? Still, he did so at my request, allowing me to see inside his heart and through his eyes.
If possible, it made me love him more. To this day, he remains one of my greatest heroes.
Co. 1, 31st Infantry, 7th Division, 1953
Let us not forget that Mr Gore's father was forced to resign from the Senate. And, it wasn't for falling asleep suring session. There ain't no glory in this family. I thought but might be incorrect that he served in the medical corps. Somehow that seems a bit too risky and for one to give of themselves under fire for the safety and care of others so I'm sure this is incorrect.
...Hey, Thewriter...please tell your father...THANK YOU FOR PROTECTING US and MAKING US THE HOME OF THE BRAVE...will ya? Signed:..Vet-Battle of IA DRANG-1965.
bump
It is not rational to attack Gore for the nature of his Viet Nam service
I usually refrain from personal attacks here on FR but the magnitude of your stupidity, or brazen antagonism, which ever it is, cry out for an exception to that rule. Every criticism I have read about Gore on this thread is perfectly rational and even if it weren't you have no right to address combat vets in the manner you are using. I will advise you that not having been there you are NOT entitled to an opinion on this subject. End of discussion. And if you were my child I would spank you. Now that IS irrational and I have paid my dues to be so on this particular subject you little bug.
Very well put!
My thoughts exactly.
Although I have not ever served in a combat zone I have been in the military for over 13.5 years. I was a member of a mobile radar unit that would deploy to within 1 hr of the FOB. We were unique in the Air Force because we were not tied to an Airstrip but would deploy to "the field". Now I work outside my career field doing other stuff.
It burns me up every time I see some little piss ant who has no idea what it means to serve time in the military shooting their mouths off about how things should be done in military matters.
If these so called experts had any idea what it means to serve thier tune would be totally different.
We had a saying in my last unit. It went like this "If you don't know what you are talking about, Shut up and Color"!
So I say to baby bob: SHUT UP AND COLOR!
You know, I just don't remember an MOS of "reporter" during my Army time from '66-'70. Any idea what it was...? ;-)
What particularly bothers me about Piney Bob's comments is his acceptance of the assertion that senator's sons (and now daughters) are somehow different from the rest of us as they aren't subject to the same rules and responsibities as other citizens of this great republic. This wasn't always the case. Whatever you think of the Kennedys, neither Joe, Jr. nor Jack HAD to serve in dangerous frontline positions in World War II, their father was one of the richest men in America. But they wanted to be at the forefront of action, where Joe was killed and Jack seriously wounded with lifelong injuries. Similarly, Teddy Roosevelt's son didn't need to be on the front lines in WWI; he could have used "influence", but he was killed fighting there. Harry Truman was initially denied permission to go to France in the first World War with his unit becuase of bad eyesight; he demanded to go in spite of it. Ronald Reagan signed up for and served in the Army Reserves in the 1930s when total US military strength was about 100,000 and virtually no one entered the Army and there was no requirement to serve. I'm not saying that military service is a prerequisite for political office; but I find it a damned shame that virtually none of the more than 500 congressional representatives in the 1960s had a son exposed to any type of danger in a war they supported, funded and ultimately betrayed. People in Congress aren't demi-gods; they are ordinary mortals and fellow citizens, just like you and me, Piney Bob. Perhaps if they and theirs began accepting the same burdens and responsibilities they impose on the rest of us, life would be a lot better for all of us.
b
It seems to me that there was a campaign outside of Al Gore to keep Al Gore safe.
It seems to me that you err in assuming that Algore didn't know about it. If he wasn't aware of it, he would have had no reason to lie about it in his 1988 presidential campaign. But because he said that he "carried an M-16, walked through the elephant grass," etc. when the truth is that he was a reporter shows that without a doubt --he knew what was happening. If he didn't know that he was receiving preferential treatment when he first arrived, the constant presence of his two "best buddies" the bodyguards assigned to him should have been a clue. So from these reports, we can only assume one of two things are true: 1) Algore knew at the time, that he was being given special treatment and later lied about it. --or-- 2) Algore was completely clueless at the time and remains so today. dan
*We should attack Gore for raising money in a Buddhist temple, for being an eco-nut, for tolerating and enabling Bill Clinton's perjury and possible treason...*
Excellent point. Excuse those of us who only saw the trees.
Do Be scrawled:
There was a time when it was believed that a man who did not have honor was not qualified to represent others.
You apparently do not know this, do not understand this, don't think this is important or just plain don't care.
I know it well enough to think it's distasteful for people to attack a man for his service in Vietnam, when he volunteered to go there. You're blind.
Carpio wrote:
I will advise you that not having been there you are NOT entitled to an opinion on this subject. End of discussion. And if you were my child I would spank you. Now that IS irrational and I have paid my dues to be so on this particular subject you little bug.
Of course I'm entitled to an opinion--it won't be as well informed as people who were there, I admit, but I'm entitled to say what I think. Anyone who tries to win an argument by saying HE is entitled to say something while I am not, because I wasn't there or am too young, is falling for the same trap they accuse of Gore of falling into--using his military service for personal gain. QED.
Chico wrote:
Excellent point. Excuse those of us who only saw the trees.
Thanks. You'd think I suggested we begin eating infants for breakfast, the way these guys have screamed and whined. I'm not saying we should like Al Gore--today he is a piece of garbage--but thirty years ago he did his service and any attack on it is distasteful to me, personally, and I believe runs counter to the spirit of Free Republic.
Ditto
The ironicly named "Laconic" wrote:
People in Congress aren't demi-gods; they are ordinary mortals and fellow citizens, just like you and me, Piney Bob. Perhaps if they and theirs began accepting the same burdens and responsibilities they impose on the rest of us, life would be a lot better for all of us.
No argument, and I never suggested otherwise. Throughout history, though, such behavior has been rare.
Around 1970, when I was pre-natal or narrowly post-natal, William F. Buckley was asked if he wouldn't try to save his son from going to Vietnam, if he had a son who'd been drafted. Buckley said (and this is from memory, so it might be a little off), "I might. But if I did, I should be put against a wall." In other words, although such behavior is treason, good men can be lured into it. It's treason all the same.
Go to this link! Gore's Campaign Add !8>
Al Gore's ad says:
...And he came home from Vietnam doubting politics could make a difference.
Shame he didn't stick to that point of view!
Plain old politics might not matter, but propaganda gets the job done.
God Bless you.
My father as well served. He was Infantry in WW II, Korea, and Viet Nam. He is one of the few that has two stars above his CIB (Combat Infantrymans Badge) that survived. I can recall as a kid trying to get him to tell me some "war stories". He never would. After serving my tour of duty in RVN, I believe I understand why. He is still alive and yet today neither of us share any of our experiences "in the field of battle" with each other.
He has been and will always be my hero. I understand your passionate love for your father.
Again God Bless you.
Greg Adams
" I think it would be nice if you fully clarified the situation for me."
I believe it was someone else that responded using the term "tortured logic".
I guess I just failed at "clarifying" my disgust over Algore's exaggerating his tour of duty. Sorry you took my remarks as an affront to you. My passion about this topic and all things Clinton gets me a little charged up and I suppose I rage on incoherently. I did not intend to impugn your sense of integrity.
Obviously you believe it is just fine for Mr. Gore to exaggerate and brag up a "combat experience" that didn't happen. I don't believe it is right. I believe Mr. Gore marginalizes the patriotic service of others in so doing. I believe that Mr. Gore, together with Bill Clinton has a serious problem with "the truth". I believe Mr. Gore is a liar.
Please accept my apology if in my tortured logic I appeared to lump you together with Algore.
I wish you well.
Greg Adams
My dad passed away on September 20th. He was in the Marine Corps 1940-1947 and 1952-1973. He was an enlisted man who saw combat in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. He came back from Vietnam with a third of his face missing.
Daddy never talked about his experiences. But I remember when I was a little girl hearing him shout out in his nightmares. Mother explained that "your Daddy is remembering the war."
I'll never know what he carried in his head and in his heart, but I suspect that it was a heavy load.
It turns my stomach when anyone -- Gore, McCain, whoever -- uses their service to this country for personal gain. Too many paid to much to cheapen it that way.
I don't know if there was a specific MOS, but I do know that a number of servicemen and women worked as information specialists for the "Stars and Stripes". Perhaps SSGTMike could tell us or find out. I also wonder if the "Stars and Stripes" is still in print.
Al Gore Had Bodyguards Protecting Him in Vietnam
You mean, they hated him before we did?
Gore is such a coward & liar. What is wrong with the National Guard? Many, many National Guardsmen served in South East Asia (many also lost their lives)from many States. These Guardsmen served with dedication, professionalism & loyalty. Guardsmen also served with these attributes here at home as well. G.W. Bush has risked his life, piloting a Jet, more than Al Gore did in a recognized Combat zone.
I wonder what Gore's DD214 says. One of my "extra" duties was PIO, and I had an NCO as an assistant. That was an extra duty for him too as his MOS and primary duty was as an air-crew member. The thing is that NOTHING about our unit or operations was subject to being reported on by anybody not in the unit, and only then when internally authorized.
It's inconceivable to me that a "reporter" of any other stripe would be permitted in any Army unit. I wonder if he was just put at a desk to keep him out of the way and his head babysitter NCO told him his job was to "report" to him on the unit's paper goods usage or something. On the other hand, his daddy may have told him to clandestinely "report" on what he saw. In my unit the latter would have been subject to courts martial....
I know it is ancient history, but if Dan Quaill would have answered his question in this manner we may have been spared a lot of this BS we are put through.
So your position is that Al Gore (mental heavyweight that he is) decided to ENLIST in the United States Army during an extremely unpopular war, because his vast foresight revealed to him that at some point in the future, when he ran for President, he might be able to use the character reference of said military service?
According to a caller on C-SPAN identifying himself as someone with connections to Al's daddy's Senate staff, Al wanted to go to Canada, but his daddy told him that it would hurt his political chances later and arranged for a safe trip to and through Vietnam in order preserve his political viability. Far-fetched? Hey, Clinton himself admitted at the time that political considerations were weighing heavily on his mind with respect to what he'd do in Vietnam. So Algore had to rely on the advice of older and greyer heads. This is far from a 'lunatic' theory.
Otherwise, I resent your assertion and remind you that despite my youth I am allowed to have and present an opinion on these matters.
Remember what a lot of people tend to forget, being allowed to have an opinion has absolutely nothing to do with the likelihood of it being an informed or factually correct opinion. In this case, who give's a rat's ass about Gore's "point of view"? You're assuming that Gore was speaking truthfully about what he sincerely believed. We know this is something that doesn't happen. He has already shown it is not the case. We know his point of view. It is to mischaracterize whatever he can to turn it to his advantage: inflating it to absurd degrees--his characterization of his Vietnam 'service'; minimizing it with legalese--"no controlling legal authority". He had dealings with the Hsia organization in 1989 which promised him financial support but later claims that her invitation to address the Buddhist temple was a community outreach effort and that he had no idea there was money involved. Gore has proven himself beyond a shadow of a doubt to be thoroughly corrupted.
Thanks for the link. Nothing like a little sickening propaganda to ruin your lunch. Oh well, I'm trying to lose weight anyway.
We have to expect that the military would seek to limit the exposure to risk of the son of a Senator. It is no fault of Al Gore's that this was done, and no one is making an allegation that he acted to get special treatment.
True as far as it goes. I can't claim to have been in combat either. But I don't lie about it.
May the Lord comfort you in your loss.
Every time a Veteran passes away our nation loses a valuable patriot. The loss of a combat vet is especially painful, for we have lost one who risked everything so his family, neighbors, and fellow citizens could enjoy the abundant freedoms we have in this nation. It is sad that not all people realize, understand, or even care about the sacrifices that have been made in their behalf.
"I'll never know what he carried in his head and in his heart, but I suspect that it was a heavy load."
I would imagine it was indeed a heavy load, but just remember he bore that load so others would not have to.
He has earned his peace and helped to secure ours. Again may God bless you and your family and keep you strong in this hour of loss. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this thread.
I am deeply moved.
Respectfully,
Greg Adams
Al Gore can't be blamed for being his father's fair-haired boy way back then. But he can be blamed for lying about it now. He's the one who raised this subject.
Same thing with McCain. If he wants to keep raising the war-hero card, then he can't complain if people ask how well he actually behaved.
Gore is an idiot. Just go back and look at what he said.
So why didn't Gore just tell the truth????????
Vietnam was NOT a signatory to SEATO!
SEATO Nations -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- United States France Britain Australia New Zealand Thailand Pakistan Philippines
This story embarrasses me. We should attack Gore for raising money in a Buddhist temple, for being an eco-nut, for tolerating and enabling Bill Clinton's perjury and
possible treason, but he acted honorably during Vietnam as far as I can see. That he could have avoided service in Vietnam but didn't is enough for me.
Except that he lied needlessly about his service in Vietnam. And the lying is the issue.
In my case, the fact is that I am truly humbled by what I know about friends of mine! I will never know at what point I would have succumbed to 'Rabbit Fever'! I will always wonder if I could have survived some of the hardships and horrors which my friends did. I was very lucky!!!!!!
As a combat vet I can attest that the best "war stories" always come from the REMF's. Those too timid to get their ass in the grass, want to bask in the light of those who made the real sacrifices.
Gore is no different that any other politician when it came to self-sacrifice. His vietnam service was a reflection of his dishonesty then, and the same character now.
I saw his kind over there, they were the one's living off base, having Vienamese girlfriends/housekeepers, while dreaming of brave encounters on the battlefield.
Remember LBJ, he got a "Silver Star" for being a passenger on an airplane that was attacked by a jap zero. The Gunner shot it down while LBJ sat there in his seat. Old Lyndon got miles of exposure out of that by having himself repeatedly "awarded the Silver Star" at every political trainstop in Texas.
Politicans take glory from others because as a rule, they are incapable of the self-sacrifice that is required by real hero's.
Al Gore ursurped the glory of others because he is incapable of obtaining Glory for himself....it's all about the manipulation of truth, which we call politics. For the record...paper pushers don't go on patrol, nor do they follow the warriors into the elephant grass ! I wouldn't have one of those sorry jerk-off's on any patrol of mine. Warriors must rely on each other in combat...REMF's were not allowed out where the Purple hearts grow, that was reserved for men of character, men of valor, dependable men...not wannabee's !
My dad served in New Guinea with the 3rd Bomb Group then stayed in uniform until '72. He was quite open about New Guinea but not about any blood and guts, but the life and times during war.
In the summer of '64, an uncle came by for a visit. This uncle had been in the 1st Marines on the 'canal' and to just recently learned, had, also, served in Korea. I made the mistake of asking him to tell me about Guadalcanal; I have never before, nor since, witnessed such anguish on a man's face. Dad had never showed anger towards me as he did that evening when he found out what I had done!
Dad did tell me about a Jap bombing and strafing run in which a guy raised up out of a hole and fired a clip from a Thompson at a Jap plane. He said that Jap pilot came back around and plastered the hell out of that guys hole. The guy survived but never pulled that shit again!
Hey, Bob. I'm the same age as you. And my dad was lucky enough not to go to Vietnam, too. He served in the Army Reserves & could have been called up, but wasn't.
Even if you give Al Gore all the benefit of the doubt, and explain his service as somewhat beyond his control, that doesn't excuse his exagerations of his service. A lot of guys lost their lives, their body parts & their piece of mind over there. Gore diminishes their honorable service by claiming to have done more than he did.
All Gore needs to do is stick by what he really did, without puffing himself up.
"Al Gore ursurped the glory of others because he is incapable of obtaining Glory for himself ..."
Well brother, I feel about the same way. In fact, just the fact that there are those who obviously feel Algore should not be pilloried for lying about his record of service in combat, proves that the patriotic service of those who did serve in combat has effectively been marginalized.
Just follow this thread and see where a young man born in 1970 thinks Mr. Gore's lying about his record is no big deal and that Mr. Gore deserves the same respect as those who bore the burden of combat.
Just think of what Mr. Gore's lies do to the sacred memory of all those brothers and sisters that didn't come home.
Yes it chaps my flanks, but alas it proves how I have felt for a long time, is correct.
So many gave so much to so few that really cared.
It is the same electorate that gave us Bill Clinton in the first place. Lie's have their most damaging affect when they are either believed or even worse just dismissed.
Thank you Thorn. Those who served know our point is correct and well taken.
FreeRegards,
Greg Adams
aka ImpBill
Thanks for sharing your story. Like I said, my father and I to this day just don't even discuss "combat experiences" in even general terms. In fact we don't discuss Viet Nam in even general terms. I still harbor deep and festering resentments towards a nation I so willingly served. And that is enough said on that subject.
Suffice it to say the last 7 years have been particularily challenging.
Greg
aka ImpBill
Those were the FOUNDING members... Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam were added in 1954. September 8, in Manila, these countries were added to the Southeast Asia Collective Defense Treaty...way before direct US involvement.
Okay! I will never forget the embarrassment of the Jufge Advocate for the 173rd Airborne Association, Ed Stevens, calling me down on that very point in his office in a conversation with Jack Lucas, the Medal of Honor recipient who was shown off at clintons' first State of the Union address! I am going to check to see if I can get it right someday.
bump
"I carried an M-16... I pulled my turn on the perimeter at night and walked through the elephant grass and I was fired upon,"
What was he doing walking through the elephant grass with a rifle getting shot at? I thought he was a reporter with an engineering company? Maybe he was surveying for a new road! And fightin' injuns as he worked! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
BTTT
b
b
We have to expect that the military would seek to limit the exposure to risk of the son of a Senator.
Simply not true. We don't have to expect any such thing. And it doesn't always happen. The children of the rich and famous have sometimes put themselves at greater than average risk to set an example.
I say this with some humility, since dumb luck put me in the safest of all possible locations in Nam.
b
Thanks.
I can't verify it but the word on the beach at the time was that the son of one of Roosevelts cabinet members was killed during the action.
Amen.
National guard. At the beginning of ww2 many of the guard units were the first to go. There was't enough army for any holding action.
You piece of crap! You sit there and try and commiserate with "I respect you", "I'm fortunate my father wasn't in", "I wasn't born". Well, I was born! And my father was in! And he didn't come back! And I gotta listen to the likes of you defend this traitor, as my father took the mine that Gore was facing in his BS about the elephant grass! You will never understand...tell my mother, to her face, how honorable the devil Gore's service was, so she can spit in yours, and you can see the pain first hand that this treachorous man profits from with his cock-and-bull war stories. Yeah, I don't know you well enough maybe to call you names, but I've seen others like you. They threw sh*t on my uncle in the S.F. airport when he came back. You aren't fit to lick the same sh*t off his boots!
The liberals of the 60's are now the teachers of the likes of Piney Bob. History has been changed to conveniently demonstrate whatever point the liberals want made. They teach this garbage to the youth of America, and we wind up with armchair critics like this who feel the need to defend other liberals.
Piney Bob, This thread is a history lesson form many many Viet Nam Vets who know exactly what they are talking about. I was also too young to serve during that war. I was just a kid when the war was raging, but I have a little better perspective than you. I saw the anti war protesters and fealt that their treatment of our soldiers was WRONG! When I was 18 I joined the USAF Reserves, and served with many dedicated people who had served during the Viet Nam War. They are fine dedicated patriots, and we owe them a debt of gratitude.
Al Gore was no war hero. I believe that he did want to avoid the draft by fleeing to Canada, and that his dad got him a job where his greatest risk was a paper cut. This morning Rush said that about 1992 there was a television interview of the senior Gores. Mrs. Gore pulled a letter from a pile at random and began to read. It described his loathing of the military. Mrs. Gore became ashen and shut up.
b
b
b
Probably a rabbitt, poor thing, and missed just scared it to death.
b
And my father was in! And he didn't come back!
65 has bumped me a couple of times in this thread, but after your post there is really nothing else to say.
God Bless you, your Mom, and your Pop.
No, the point is: Gore is another Yellow, Democrat, FRAUD..FRAUD!!..you may quote this.
You are full of it Gore-Lover. You won't find any of your commie comrades here.
John Kennedy & George Bush didn't seek special risk free treatment in WWII.
I don't know the history of all the Senator's sons in Vietnam but Al Gore Jr. is undoubtedly the most despicable. It is a disgrace that good men had to risk their lives for that piece of shit while he got stoned on pot every day for 5 months.
Gore's sham "military service" is more dishonorable than Clinton. At least, Clinton didn't require other men to risk their lives while he got stoned.
We'll hold Gore responsible for his sins of yesterday, today and tomorrow.
MadAsHell too
Here's the game. Guy goes to Nam. Comes back. Gets spit on.
Doesn't matter what he did or did not do, or how the command dealt with him. He gets spit on.
Folks still spit on Viet Nam Veterans.
Right out of the gate there were WWII veterans describing the events in Viet Nam as something less than a war. That's a big spit. Then, we had the US Congress that had no respect whatsoever for the men and women it called to service and refused to pass a declaration of war so that folks in the military could be protected from the likes of Jane Fonda and Ramsey Clark. That's another big spit.
Even the Secretary of Defense was a believer in losing the war. That's yet another one.
Now, we get this thread.
Gore went. Many did not. Actually, damned near everybody that could was trying to escape it. Tricking the system to evade a levy was as much a part of that sort of behavior as messing with the draft board. The cowardice in the face of Viet Nam is a known historic event.
You don't have to love Al Gore to note that he actually went into the country. Now, 30 years later, it's "spit on Al Gore for his Viet Nam service" time.
I am sorry, I cannot go along with that. If a man was called and inducted, great! If he was inducted and was sent to Nam and he went, great! If he was there, great!
If he evaded induction, evaded his orders, or deserted, that's not great. So far no one has demonstrated that Al Gore evaded induction, evaded his orders, or failed to actually go to Viet Nam.
I am sick and tired of others, including fellow veterans, who step out of their way to condemn another man for having done service there.
As far as the fellows in the supposed "rear" not being subject to any risk in Viet Nam, after I went through the death reports of my 14 friends who died there, I was overwhelmed with the futility and brutality of war when I noted that almost half of them died in the supposed "rear" - by mortar from VC, fire, or, in one case, drowning in a drainage ditch in Da Nang when his jeep turned over on him. Another, who spent most of his time in the "rear", got a posthumous Silver Star rescuing wounded Marines on a medevac flight into a hot LZ.
A gentleman with whom I work was an artillery targeting specialist. Sometimes he had to drive out to look at the "targets". Another was a supply officer in Da Nang. He slept under his bunk.
Oh, yeah, something I didn't know because I never went to Nam, but the guys tell me who did, was that if you had a bunk, you always slept under it, on the floor. That was just in case a sapper dropped HE into your camp, or a VC mortar got set up nearby. First time I heard that one was from a fellow in a supposed "rear area" whose job was liaison with the Korean military in Viet Nam.
Last thing I will do is criticize anyone who went to Viet Nam for his or her service time.
And, here in FreeRepublic, that should be a standard of conduct for us all.
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Oh, yeah, something I didn't know because I never went to Nam, but the guys tell me who did, was that if you had a bunk, you always slept under it, on the floor.
This is an interesting qualification to have for telling the guys who went what they should think about it.
Since the Viet Nam War first started there seem to have been an excess of folks around who find some reason to discover fault in the men who served in the military at that time, or who went to Nam, or who actually participated in combat.
Did you know that you could fail to go to Nam and still face serious danger? Was that service of less value to the United States? I will admit the closest I came to it was to be present about 100 meters away from the insertion point where the USSR Army penetrated Czechoslovakia in 1968. In fact, our squad was the very first to report the movement of troops.
Something tells me that you are the type who would not have stayed where you were ordered to be and have done the job you were trained to do, particularly not up against the potential might in an enemy armored column.
All military service to the United States at any time is honorable. Only the cowards spit on the men who served.
What is it you like about Al Gore?
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"Just a few questions that tumbled through my mind."
Tumble it again...the laws of random generation insure that eventually you will get it right...;);)
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A lot of people who were "there" also loathed the military. Consider this -- you are drafted into a war that the politicians have decided to lose, your friends call you a baby killer, you get spit on when you are in uniform. And your family is embarrassed because you didn't have the sense to find some way out.
Screw the "greatest generation". They were given respect.
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Pine-y Bob seems to have ISSUES....
Did you serve?
How old are you?
as a Pine, are you related to our VP in charge of TREES? (aLOGre)
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Some folks are born made to wave the flag,
Ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief",
Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord,
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son, son.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one,
no,
Yeah!
Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
Lord, don't they help themselves, oh.
But when the taxman comes to the door,
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yes,
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no millionaire's son, no.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, no.
Some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord,
And when you ask them, "How much should we give?"
Ooh, they only answer More! more! more! yoh,
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no military son, son.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, one.
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, no no no,
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate son, no no no,
Back to the Top --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FORGET "LOVE STORY"!!
THIS was written for alogre:
,P.
"Some folks are born made to wave the flag,
Ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief",
Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord,
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son, son.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, "
"
wuwuwuwuw....hahahaha
I felt safe in Vietnam. I had 10,000 bodyguards. They were Korean Marines and they lived on the other side of Cam Rhan Bay.
I have never misrepresented my self as brave or heroic, and I can get pretty upset with a fellow vet who engages in resume padding.
That was on the radio at the time they were thowing garbage at us at the airport.
"A lot of people who were "there" also loathed the military. Consider this -- you are drafted into a war that the politicians have decided to lose, your friends call you a baby killer, you get spit on when you are in uniform. And your family is embarrassed because you didn't have the sense to find some way out."
Those people you say also loathed the military, are not seeking the office of President of the United States. They don't seek to become the the Commander-in-Chief of the very military that they loathe. Bill Clinton also loathes the military, and he has made remarkable strides toward its total destruction. His first step was gays in the military. Next was to spread the military so thin worldwide, that we couldn't defend ourselves in a war if our lives depended on it. Then there is his use of our military for diversionary tactics each time he is caught with his pants down. He has squandered our supply of arms, in Iraq, the Sudan and in Kosovo. He has so disheartened our forces that we can't recruit enough people to serve, even after the large scale base closings and cuts in personnel. Oh, don't forget Chinagate. They have our nuclear secrets, and they have sold them to other countries. They have offered to blow up Los Angeles (I might accept the offer if it was Washington D.C. in their sights).
So now Al Gore Jr, having learned at the knee of Bill Clinton, wants the military to endure another eight years of this trauma. Al Gore lied about his service. He wants to ride to glory on the backs of the Vets who really did walk through the elephant grass and get fired upon. Our military and our country deserve better than Al Gore for President.
You ask what is it about Al Gore that I like.
What a ridiculous question. You must be a new reader and poster. I am an hereditary Republican. There's nothing about the man I like, but when it comes to folks spitting on his military service, I will defend him to the death.
That's what you ought to be doing. Anything else is un-American and injurious to our ancient liberties.
So what did he shoot and who got blamed for it?
We think alike
Some people like military service and some don't. This is unrelated to patriotism or willingness to share the responsibility for national defense.
I didn't like service and I met a lot of guys who shared my sentiments. No one I know got any special favors. If we got through Nam in one piece it was just dumb luck.
I would give Algore a pass if he didn't exaggerate his military experience. But if he has padded his stories for political advantage, he's scum.
Yea, Gore-Lover, all the Republicans I know have weird names like muawiyah. What Clinton did was more honorable that putting good men's lives in jeopardy while he smoked for 5 months which is what Gore did.
They said the same thing about Bill Clinton.
Never underestimate the power of the media to push a person beyond all common sense, into the average American person's simple mind.
He is wearing all clean clothes here, isn't he?
..... All military service to the United States at any time is honorable. Only the cowards spit on the men who served.....
You got that right .... whether sent to combat or to Camp Swampy .... the honor is in the duty. Those who faced combat deserve higher commendation, but those that didn't do not deserve to be derided.
They said the same thing about Bill Clinton. Never underestimate the power of the media to push a person beyond all common sense, into the average American person's simple mind.
But Clinton is a hair splitting sophist who "appears" to be making a reasonable argument ( to the undereducated, that is)
Gore cant even do that. He lies, he gets caught, he moves on. The Press doesent publicize it, but its not the same as it is with Clinton. A good ad campaign can really banish this guy into clowndom, once and for all (IMO)
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I can't believe this photo hasn't been posted here yet.
More captions here: http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3831480201ff.htm
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Here's a commentary on this thread by Bill Mauldin:
"Th' yellow one is fer national defense, th' red one wit' white stripes is fer very good conduct, and th' real purty one wit' all th' colors is fer bein' in this theater of operations."
Here's the comment from Bill Mauldin:
"Th' yellow one is fer national defense, th'red one wit' white stripes is fer very good conduct, and th' real purty one wit' all the' colors is fer bein' in this theater of operations."
I got it to come out right on post #180.
algore all show (and a bad one at that) and ABSOLUTELY NO GUTS! He is worse than Clinton, he endangered the lives of good men so that he could put on a show to try and save his daddy's campaign for the Senate.
No helmet, barrel of gun point at his face. Coloradan, your photo proves conclusively that Gore's "military service" was a sham. The only thing loaded in that picture was the camera.
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To paraphrase the Wizard of Oz, Naomi Wolf can't give Al Gore courage, but she can dub him an Alpha Male.
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I don't doubt that Algore got special treatment in Vietnam, but just for the sake of FACT, Al Gore senior was no longer a senator by the time he went to Vietnam. Al joined just before the election of (I believe) 1970, in part to deflect talk that Al Gore senior's opposition to the war was unpatriotic (the Tennessee "Volunteers" take patriotism seriously...) It didn't help, because Al Gore Sr. LOST his bid for re-election. Now, he still knew everyone he needed to know to influence the way that Algore was treated, but glaring factual errors hurt the credibility of a story like this.
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What?
You mean you don't know?
It couldn't have been that much of a classified project that it couldnt have leaked out.
AL GORE INVENTED VIETNAM
ROTFLMAO
Keep The Faith
This one, too!
ha!
This is war, damnit it!
The press is going wild..........."What else is he hiding?" And the Gore camp says they don't want to "be involved" with this.
big ole bttt
Hhahahhahahaah... Very funny!!!!
bttt
_
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