|
Captain Ahmed al-Habashi
One of the flight attendants may have noticed something odd about "the captain", hence his comment about "something wrong with the plane." |
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
Sunday, November 14 2:39 AM SGT Brother of doomed EgyptAir pilot dismisses suicide speculation
The pilot of the doomed EgyptAir flight bought baby clothes for his future grandchild before taking off for Cairo, his brother said Saturday, dismissing speculation he crashed the plane in a suicide plunge.
Captain Ahmed al-Habashi went shopping with a nephew in the New York City area before the ill-fated flight for clothes and feeding bottles for the man's pregnant daughter, Habashi's brother Sayed told AFP.
Investigators have not ruled out a suicide mission by one of the pilots and aviation experts have said the way Flight 990 plummeted into the Atlantic on October 31, killing all 217 aboard, could suggest the crew intended to crash.
But family and colleagues alike portrayed Habashi and the rest of the eight-member flight crew as mentally stable with no record of disciplinary or professional misconduct.
"Ahmed was a very experienced pilot, and he wasn't the only one in the cockpit," Sayed said at his Cairo home, showing photographs of his late brother.
"Would the others sit back and watch him commit suicide?" he asked, adding that his brother had asked him if he wanted him to bring back any gifts from the United States.
Aviation expert Barry Schiff, a veteran pilot, said the way the plane dived and the fact that both engines shut off suggests there was "something really screwy going on in the cockpit."
"The only reason you would shut off the engines is if you want to go down permanently," he said.
But EgyptAir's deputy head of Boeing 767 pilots, Captain Rushdi Zakariya, said there were "many reasons" why the engines could have cut off by themselves, such as clogged filters that could prevent fuel from reaching the engines.
Sayed said his brother was a healthy and very religious man who had had neither an accident nor even a close call during his 40-year flying career.
The pilot's wife, Maria al-Habashi, said airport officials in New York had told her the captain was joking with the other cabin crew before boarding the flight.
"He was jolly as usual," she told AFP, dismissing a report by the Boston Herald that some crew members were worried there was something wrong with the plane.
The paper, citing an unnamed source, said one crew member telephoned his wife to say he was "very worried" and had reason to believe "there was something wrong with the plane."
Zakariya, who used to fly with Habashi, said his late colleague was a "very nice guy and a good pilot" who had flown 767s for more than 11 years.
Habashi, who flew a C-30 transport plane during the October 1973 war against Israel, was also a strong swimmer who had won national medals, his brother said.
"He never smoked or drank alcohol. He had no bad habits. He was very religious and prayed and was always reading the Koran."
But he stressed that the 57-year-old captain was "not an extremist."
"He wasn't like those deviant people. He was a very calm man who never got angry with anyone."
Sayed said that when investigators discover the cockpit voice recorder, the second so-called "black box" which records the last 30 minutes of the pilots' conversations, "everything will become clear."
When would this pilot have had a chance to do shopping in New York? He could not have if he was on the flight from California -- not only was the plane's stop at JFK brief, but it was also well after midnight, when all the shops at the airport would have been closed.
Do we know the name of the pilot who phoned his son from Edwards AFB? Is this the same guy?
"imo he did it"
Because he read the Koran? Please clarify...
The flight TO LAX stopped for quite a while in Newark, having been diverted from JFK due to weather. He could have shopped then. The flight continued on to LA, where it did its turnaround. You are correct...there would have been no time for shopping on the return leg.
Michael
Habashi, who flew a C-30 transport plane during the October 1973 war against Israel, was also a strong swimmer who had won national medals, his brother said.
He fought against Israel, read the Koran alot... was extemely competetive at swimming (big ego)... and possibly disliked the Egyptian - Israel - US ties as much as other muslim extremists do. Whoever crashed that plane was a good pilot because of the difficult conditions of the perfect dive.... and the co-pilot was going to get married soon... hardly the kind of person who would want to die.
Was the stop at Newark Airport long enough to have allowed a shopping trip to Manhattan? If the shopping was at Newark Airport or in downtown Newark, I'm not sure "New York City area" is a probable way to describe where the shopping was done.
"He fought against Israel, read the Koran alot... was extemely competetive at swimming (big ego)... and possibly disliked the Egyptian - Israel - US ties as much as other muslim extremists do."
I dunnknow. Sounds a stretch to me. For example...
"He fought against the Communist Chinese in Korea, read the Bible a lot...was extremely competitive at tennis...and possibly disliked the ChiComm - US economic ties as much as other Christian extremists do..."
I believe we need more input...
I believe we need more input...
I see your point and of course I'm only offering an opinion... but that's mine. Economic ties are much different than Religious ties as well... He clearly had the best opportunity to crash the plane, and it appears that it was done by a knowlegeable 767 pilot... the co-pilot had every reason to want to live. The pilot was near retirement ... maybe he voluntarily heeded Osama's call to kill Americans etc... when he learned who was on the plane.
The pilot may, indeed, prove to be the culprit.
My point is that basing your premise on the fact he read the Koran makes a pretty thin gruel from which to project such a meaty stew.
My point is that basing your premise on the fact he read the Koran makes a pretty thin gruel from which to project such a meaty stew.
I just bolded that part of the article... I didn't claim that was the only premise that I based my arguement on.
After leveling off at 33,000 feet and setting the autopilot, it is common for the pilot to unbuckle and take a piss. The Cockpit Voice Recorder will be interesting. I think it will show the co-pilot was at the controls. Maybe he and his fiance were having problems....
What if this were a fighter plane and was being tracked by an air-launched missile? What evasive manuevers would the pilot take? I'd sure like to hear some input from a fighter pilot here. Someone offered this possibility on a previous thread and don't know if there were any replies to it. If such a scenario may be considered, would it be reasonable to assume that the pilot would make an immediate dive to gain speed, and at the last second, shut the engines down to reduce the heat signature at the last second and then begin to climb?
I think it will show the co-pilot was at the controls.
really... well the CVR will help end the speculation. Fun to speculate tho! I was thinking that the co-pilot went for a leak. Is anything else known about the co-pilot?
What if this were a fighter plane and was being tracked by an air-launched missile?
nice speculation champ! But I don't believe that 767s would have any incoming missle warning systems... and someone else on another threat indicated that the engines would still be hot for a while even if they were turned off.
I recall reading that the plane took on a new crew for the departure from JFK. I'm looking in my files now for the source and will back to confirm/disconfirm/post link.
Anyone know if there is a planned press conference about this today? Yesterday 4:00pm EST was mentioned, but it was subject to change if new informantion arrived.
I recall reading that the plane took on a new crew
There was something about a pilot and a co-pilot from another EgyptAir crew that were flying home on the flight as passengers. There was also an early report that a flight inspector was to be on board but wasn't for a reason that was never given.
|
Captain Ahmed al-Habashi
One of the flight attendants may have noticed something odd about "the captain", hence his comment about "something wrong with the plane." |
I think the public is primed for another good PLANE CRASH MOVIE! If I had my way it'd be called "Bad Guys On A Mission"
I recall reading that the plane took on a new crew for the departure from JFK. I'm looking in my files now for the source and will back to confirm/disconfirm/post link.
You are correct. Here was one link for the NY Post, story appeared Nov 1.
http://www.nypost.com/news/10529.htm. Here is the excerpt: The jet left Cairo bound for JFK on Saturday morning, but was diverted to Newark because of fog, said Bob Kelly, the aviation director for the Port Authority. From Newark, it headed to Los Angeles, where it arrived at 4:46 p.m. New York time. The flight then took on 33 new passengers and flew to JFK, arriving at 12:48 a.m. yesterday. One lucky passenger, a man who worked for the airline as a consultant on counseling the relatives of crash victims, got off the plane in New York. The crew also got off and another crew took over.
I think the flight crew that flew inbound from Cairo was the same crew that flew outbound when it crashed, so they would have had plenty of time to shop.
Thanks - found it - was just about to post also.
Implications:
~ If the plane did land at Edwards AFB, the pilot who allegedly called his son from there is still alive and can be interviewed.
~ The pilot for the JFK - Cairo flight, having had free time in the NYC area prior to departure, would have had time to go shopping.
30 Egyptian military officers who had just finished a training course in the U.S. were on the plane.
Read the material before you waste our time.
Thanks for posting that. Most frequent fliers know that long flights change pilots from one leg to the other. My trips to the Philippines, which is 12 hours from US to Tokyo, actually has 2 flight crews on that leg of the journey. It makes sense:do you want the same pilot flying all day from LA and then a 7 hour flight to Egypt?
As for reading the Koran, I read the Bible every day, and don't kill people. This would make it LESS likely he committed suicide or mass murder. Suicide is forbidden in the Koran, as is killing innocent people. And the law of hospitality is very strong in Arab countries. Killing those who are your guests is unthinkable in Islam:( that's why the Afghans won't give up BenLadin: he's a guest). A pilot would be the host to the passengers, so this is unthinkable.
This is another scapegoat. The intruder scenerio is more likely
How many who commit suicide take 216 with them? That isn't the typical MO of a person with suicidal tendencies. I don't buy it.
FWIW, an early report on CNN identifies the pilot as Hakim Rushdie (v. Ahmed al-Habashi in this thread's article) and also says that one unidentified EgyptAir employee deplaned in New York. Click here for full CNN article.
Clinton and company's MO---
Someone to BLAME.
Then it can all be forgotten.
90 percent certain---A terrorist broke into the cabin and caused the plane to go down---NOT THE PILOTS.
The obviously crooked cover-up of Flight 800, with all the obvious leaks to the stooge press should make it obvious by now that Clinton and company think they MUST cover up any terrorism to do with airplanes in the US.
So they try to blame the "fuel tank", or in this case the pilot himself.
RIDICULOUS.
U.S. Team Probes EgyptAir Pilot
By SALAH NASRAWI Associated Press Writer
CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- A U.S. team is probing health records of the pilot and co-pilot of crashed EgyptAir Flight 990, despite the airline's assertion that both men were in good physical and mental condition, officials said Sunday.
The probe came amid angry remarks from EgyptAir officials that U.S. investigators should concentrate on the possibility that the plane might have been downed by something other than pilot error.
``They were among our best pilots,'' said Hassan Misharfa, EgyptAir head of operations. ``They had long experience and, in addition to that, they had passed all professional, safety and psychological tests successfully.''
EgyptAir officials said the U.S. team, which includes security experts and investigators from Boeing and the National Transportation Safety Board, is checking the health and flying records of pilot Ahmed el-Habashy and co-pilot Adel Anwar as well as their backgrounds.
``They are trying to find out if they had any sort of problems,'' the officials told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.
Downplaying the significance of investigators' requests to see personnel records, EgyptAir Deputy Chairman Mohammed Shaheen said that investigators ``are asking to see all the records in the world.''
``This does not mean that they are implicating anyone or implying anything,'' Shaheen told The Associated Press.
Preliminary data released Friday showed that the plane was put into a dive so steep and fast that passengers briefly would have been rendered weightless. And both engines were shut off before the aircraft climbed out of its dive, then turned and plunged into the ocean.
``This is illogical. If that is really what happened, the pilots would have steadily flown the plane like a glider. All our pilots are well trained on gliding,'' said Isam Ahmed, head of EgyptAir's Flying Institute.
``Only an explosion could have done this,'' he told journalists.
Foreign Minister Amr Moussa cautioned Sunday against speculation, urging people to wait for the outcome of the U.S. investigation.
On Saturday, EgyptAir chairman Mohammed Fahim Rayan said el-Habashy and Anwar had undergone routine physical and psychological checkups in the past five months and had been deemed fit.
Investigators in the United States are trying to determine what brought down the New York-to-Cairo flight on Oct. 31, killing all 217 people on board. Late Saturday night, the Navy recovered the cockpit voice recorder from wreckage in the Atlantic Ocean off Nantucket Island. It was to be taken Sunday for analysis at the NTSB laboratory in Washington.
EgyptAir officials would help NTSB investigators interpret the information and distinguish the pilot's and co-pilot's voices, Rayan said.
"The probe came amid angry remarks from EgyptAir officials that U.S. investigators should concentrate on the possibility that the plane might have been downed by something other than pilot error."
You are correct in pointing to the group of recently-graduated Egyptian officers that must have been connected with Operation Bright Star. This group of officers,newly-trained not only in the tactical uses of the Apache helicopter but also in other"inter-operability" skills is more than likely the key to Flight 990's fate.
Here's my slightly edited post in Mubarak confidant insists U.S. involved in EgyptAir crash from last Monday.
Since those 33 Egyptian military officers, including high ranks up to General, were returning from a wide variety of exercises inevitably linked to Operation Bright Star--including counter-terrorist and intelligence "inter-operability" training that allows smooth functioning between U.S. and foreign military command structures.
Eliminating these freshly trained officers--some of them at very high ranks-- as a compacted group would be a most efficient method of neutralization--instantly nullifying all that expensive time and effort cheaply and in an instant of time.
Since substantial rumors --later dismissed--had the plane stopping at Edwards Air Force Base(quite likely to pick up the Egyptian officers) this could be where a bomb went aboard. Or, since two tires were replaced at LAX, the wheel-wells were vulnerable at that time and place.
Of course, now it appears that the crash was initiated from within the cockpit, so the actual perpetrator(s) of the auto-pilot disengage, the engine-cutoffs and the chaos of the controls may very well remain unanswered. The NSRB will have the oppurtunity to place their own "rationalization" on the motives of the perp(s).
The question remains--who is the target "enemy" of all this Bright Star training?
For your consideration:
By Jim Garamone
American Forces Press Service
[Emphasis added]
EL-OMAYID, Egypt -- Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein should pay attention to what the Bright Star exercises here represent, said Defense Secretary William S. Cohen during a press conference Oct. 22.
Cohen traveled here to view an amphibious assault demonstration that kicked off Bright Star exercises. This year's exercise is the largest in the U.S. Central Command region since the Persian Gulf War. About 78,000 service members from 11 nations are taking part.
"Saddam Hussein remains an outlaw in his own neighborhood," said Cohen. "Over his horizon, he should see that Bright Star demonstrates that the countries of the region, backed by the United States, Britain and other European allies, have a different version of the future."
Cohen said the coalition participating in Bright Star is building a long-term relationship "that will provide the security that our people want and the stability that they deserve." He said Bright Star is more than an exercise, that it is a statement the coalition is getting stronger.
"This is a group of nations with leaders interested in building prosperity for their people, not palaces for their cronies," Cohen said. Still, the exercise is not a prelude to operations against Iraq, as Iraqi government spokesmen have said.
Original DOD Link with Complete Article
Perhaps Saddam listened to Secretary Cohen's imperative and DID "pay attention to what the Bright Star exercises here represent . . . ."
said Isam Ahmed,... ``Only an explosion could have done this,''
From: EgyptAir Voice Tapes Raise Hopes for Crash Clues
``Why should the plane fall in such a manner?'' Ahmed asked. ''I think that someone managed to place something near the cockpit, which has a toilet behind it,'' he added, suggesting an explosion may have been responsible for the disaster.
"The question remains--who is the target "enemy" of all this Bright Star training?"
.
Cohen is a half-wit.
These are amateurs playing at being professionals--
and look what results they get.
Taunt someone and you will get them to hit back.
The smugness and stupidity of the current "administration" is impossible to comprehend.
Re #22: Flight 990 had both the Egyptian military officers aboard and EgyptAir officers who were not part of the crew.
Passengers, crew of EgyptAir Flight 990
Crew and passengers on EgyptAir Flight 990, as provided by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which runs New York’s Kennedy International Airport, and by relatives and friends. Ages and hometowns given where available.
FLIGHT CREW
Capt. El Habashy
Capt. Rauof Noureldin
Flight Officer Adel Anwar
Flight Officer El Batoty
Maha Ahmed
Maha Elmahrouky
Adel Erian
Janet Fam
Hasan Farouk
Mohamed Galal
Neama Riad
Hesham Sabry
Amal Sayed
Farouk Tamam
AIRLINE EMPLOYEES
Capt. Hatem Roushdy, EgyptAir employee but not part of the
crew.
Flight Officer Hesham Farouk, EgyptAir employee, not part of
crew.
Flight Officer Heshem Omar, 38, Cairo
Flight Officer Rafaat Ayad
Thanks for the post.
30 Egyptian military officers who had just finished a training course in the U.S. were on the plane.
Read the material before you waste our time.
I was well aware of that. Muslims that co-operate with the US military greatly anger other Muslims... even enough to want to kill them. I'm not wasting your time, you are. Go watch some football smartguy.
The CNN report to which you provide the link also says that Hakim Rushdie was in contact with his son. Remember that it was a CNN reporter who interviewed that son in Egypt, and was quite proud of the scoop, until the CNN anchor shouted her down. That is the son who said his father had phoned him from Edwards AFB.
Hakim Rushdie was pilot in California, therefore. He is presumably still alive, and yes, he ought to be interviewed.
Note that Rushdie is not on the list of people on the plane when it crashed, whereas the other pilot is.
Yes, thanks. I hesitated, however, because it's possible that the Capt. Hakim Rushdie of the CNN report might be the Hatem Roushdy listed as an off-duty captain in MSNBC's passenger manifest. Different sources render Arabic in different ways -- -die and -dy represent the same syllable, as do -ush and oush. Rushdie could be Roushdy; Hatem-Hakim, I don't know. Hope not. I'm still checking.
Here's something strange. The LA Times ran an interview on NOV 1 with the Cairo-->LA pilot, identified as as Gamal Arram. CNN says a fresh crew boarded at JFK for the NY-->Cairo flight under Capt. al Habashi. This would mean that Rushdie flew the plane only from LA to JFK. Thus:
Cairo - JFK (Newark reroute)-LA............Capt. Arram
LA - Edwards AFB? - JFK............ ......Capt. Rushdie
JFK - Cairo......................................Capt. al- Habashi
However, Arram indicates that he thought he turned the plane over directly to al-Habashi.
CNN reported that only one EgyptAir employee deplaned in New York. Our man Rushdie? He appears in LA apparently unbeknownst to Arram, flies the leg that allegedly included the AFB stop-over and the phone call, hops off in New York and disappears.
Why?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
[
Top
|
Latest Posts
|
Latest Articles
|
Self Search
|
Add Bookmark
|
Post
|
Abuse
|
Help!
]
FreeRepublic , LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794 Forum Version 2.0a Copyright © 1999 Free Republic, LLC |
Since we're all engaging in off-the-wall speculation, here's mine: this guy was not at the controls. In fact he wasn't even on the plane. He and the rest of the cockpit crew were dead before the plane even took off from JFK. They'd been replaced by passable lookalikes.... Bad Guys On A Mission.