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Can You Pass the 8th Grade? Probably Not...Take a Look:
This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 from Salina, KS. It was taken from the original document on file at the Smoky Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, KS and reprinted by the Salina Journal.
Grammar
(Time, one hour)
- Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
- Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
- Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
- What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
- Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
- What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
- - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.
Arithmetic
(Time, 1.25 hours)
- Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
- A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
- If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu., deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
- District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
- Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
- Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
- What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per m?
- Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
- What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance around which is 640 rods?
- Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.
U.S. History
(Time, 45 minutes)
- Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
- Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
- Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
- Show the territorial growth of the United States.
- Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
- Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
- Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
- Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, and 1865?
Orthography
(Time, one hour)
- What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic orthography, etymology, syllabication?
- What are elementary sounds? How classified?
- What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
- Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
- Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e'. Name two exceptions under each rule.
- Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
- Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: Bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, super.
- Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
- Use the following correctly in sentences, Cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
- Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.
Geography
(Time, one hour)
- What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
- How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
- Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
- Describe the mountains of N.A.
- Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fermandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
- Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
- Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
- Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
- Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
- Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth.
Imagine a college student who went to public school trying to pass this test, even if the few outdated questions were modernized.
What is wrong with the public education system, that results have fallen so far? Even adjusting for inflation, modern schools receive far more money per student. In fact, the amount of money spent per student has increased by an inflation-adjusted $1000 per decade for fifty years, yet results have steadily fallen. Perhaps money isn't the problem. Not lack of it, anyway. Here are some websites which offer real solutions:
Links to Related Sites and Reading
Words of the Sentient:
- Nobel Prize Winning Milton Friedman on Improving Education
- Educational Excellence Takes More Than Money
- Center for School Reform
- How Charter Schools are Working in Arizona
- Just Another Buzzword
- Why Educators Support School Choice
- A Citizen's Guide to Education Reform - School Choices
- Milton and Rose Friedman Educational Choice Foundation (Milton Friedman is a Nobel Laureate)
- Separation of School and State Alliance
- What Would a School Voucher Buy? The Real Cost of Private Schools
- Public School Teachers are More Than Twice as Likely To Send Their Kids to Private School!
- A Proposal in Support of School Vouchers
- Effective Education
- Representative Lee Hamilton on School Choice (house.gov)
- Hear a Debate on Vouchers! This is a Real Audio link
- School Choices for Disadvantaged Children
- Where School Choice is Already Working
- Choice in Education
- The Seduction of Homeschooling Families
- A Tax Credit for Education
- School Choice YES! homesite
- School Choice National Tracking Page
"If you would rule the world quietly, you must keep it amused." I notice too, that the ground on which eminent public servants urge the claims of popular education is fear: `This country is filling up with thousands and millions of voters, and you must educate them to keep them from our throats.'
--Ralph Waldo EmersonWhenever is found what is called a paternal government, there is found state education. It has been discovered that the best way to ensure implicit obedience is to commence tyranny in the nursery.
-- Benjamin Disraeli, 1874That erroneous assumption is to the effect that the aim of public education is to fill the young of the species with knowledge and awaken their intelligence, and so make them fit to discharge the duties of citizenship in an enlightened and independent manner.Nothing could be further from the truth.
The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all; it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to put down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States, whatever the pretensions of politicians, pedagogues and other such mountebanks, and that is its aim everywhere else.
-- H. L. MenkenI want people to be able to get what they need to live: enough food, a place to live, and an education for their children. Government does not provide these as well as private charities and businesses.
--Colonel David Crockett, member of Congress 1827-32, 1832-35State education is a mere contrivance for molding people to be exactly alike one another; ... in proportion as it is efficient and successful, it establishes a despotism over the mind, leading by a natural tendency to one over the body.
-- John Stuart Mill, 1859When an opponent declares, "I will not come over to your side," I calmly say, "Your child belongs to us already...What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community."
-- Adolf Hitler, on public education.
When I first looked at the test I thought " Wow, those 8th graders are getting a better education than I did."
Then I realized that this is a 1895 test and was shocked back into reality.
Impressive. And very humbling. I'd flunk it, and it would probably hurt my self-esteem, so ban it.
I'm not sure if many college graduates could get a high score on that test....
GREAT POST!!!
> Impressive. And very humbling. I'd flunk it, and it would > probably hurt my self-esteem, so ban it.Looks like someone needs his Ritalin...
Let me take a shot at the grammar part:
1. C
2. D
3. C
4. A
5. B
6. C
7. A
Finsihed with time to spare.
No I flunked. This is the reason we send our daughter to pivate school, maybe she will have a chance.
The disrupters in her school are always those that receive some form of government subsidy. Vouchers are not available in our state, it's amazing how many get school assistance. As of yet I have not met or heard of one of these parents that receive these subsidies making any attempt to discipline or improve their children.
If a national voucher program is established it will kill what is left of the private school system.
1.What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?'
That's an easy question for today's kids. Changes in Climate are caused by big US Corporations and soccer moms driving SUVs.
Not surprising. In order to subjugate the masses, it's a big help if they are illiterate.
Most professors couldn't pass this test nowadays.
Most professors couldn't pass this test nowadays.
> Let me take a shot at the grammar part: > > 1. C > 2. D > 3. C > 4. A > 5. B > 6. C > 7. A > > Finsihed with time to spare.
Looks like someone needs their Ritalin dose increased...
Man,I would have had a hard time with that in the 9th grade!
Of the current presidential candidates, how do you think could get elected if the average voter had passed this test in the 8th grade?
Per capita income in Germany is nearly double ours. We got our 'old' education system from them. I wonder if they still have their old system?
If they do, my bet is that sooner or later they will teaching us some lessons. We can always hope they will be kind and generous.
Most private school students would fail this one, too. While private schools in general are a vast improvement over public indoctrination centers, they still don't teach what used to be "a good education." Remember, the majority of teachers all hail from the same place whether they end up in public or private schools. Private schools still have plenty of feel-goodism over academic standards. Where I live, even the religious based private institutions, esp. at the high school level, are woefully liberal in their methods.
Maybe some brazen journalist could spring this one on Algore, a la "who is the president of India". ???? Being a liberal Democrat and all, Algore is all for education, so he'd know all the answers to this one.
The times they are a' changin'.
OLD: Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
NEW: Recite your Miranda Rights. OLD: A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
NEW: The Apt. is 12 ft. wide, 10 ft. long and 8 ft. high. How many relatives can live with you? OLD: If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu., deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
NEW: Your stash weighs 30 lbs.; what is it worth at $20 a bag deducting 5 lbs. for pay-offs? OLD: District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000.What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
NEW: District NO. 33 has a budget of $35 Million. What is necessary services cut back to give each teacher a $1000 a month raise and have $5 million for junkets?
Somebody post a 1995 final exam so we can see how much easier it is
Can You Pass the 8th Grade? Probably Not...Take a Look:
Thank you for posting this test. I have been looking for an example similar to what you posted.
What most young people today do not realize is that an eight-grade education was the norm for a long period in our countries history. Graduating with an eighth grade education was comparable to graduating from high school today. The eighth grade graduate was prepared to learn a profession or skill at a trade.
It should sadden us all to realize how very dumbed down our public schools system has become and how today's student have been cheated. We should be truly ashamed of ourselves for permitting the Department of Education and the Teachers union to rob our children of an education.
I'm out the door going to work but if you think this is interesting I'll take time to post what they were studying in 5th grade reading class in 1850's.
I agree with you 100%, the only difference is private versus government education are the same factors that effect the market. That is when you pay you care, and thus put a higher demand on results. Hilley started her Socialism study in private Sunday School......
Someone dig up a McGuffy Reader, it will put you to shame. I was shocked a long time ago, embarassed really.
I must log off and go study. I feel so remedial!
I failed it. I might have done better back when I WAS learning in school. But I knew then that whatever the teacher talked the most about would be on the test. I always did well on the tests.
Did I understand it? No, but my rote memory was good in those days. NOW, I know what I know rather well, but my rote memory is full of holes.
Excellent compilation and commentary, fod. Thanks.
Can I pass it? Absolutely not. But my SELF-ESTEEM is good and that's what really matters, isn't it?
Vocabulary
1. Define "Orthography".
Orthography: The art of writing words with the proper letters according to standard usage.
(I had to cheat & look in the dictionary)
I picked up a book in a junk shop: "Course of Study for the Common Schools of Illinois" (revised in 1897). I describes the complete curriculum for grades 1 to 8. I am 50, and it makes my primary education look pathetic.
Reading and numbers in grade 1. Arithmetic in grade 3. Science (zoology, botany, and physics) in grade 5. 'Morals and Manners' were taught in grades 1 to 8.
Eight grade graduates in 1897 were not only educated to perform blue collar work, but most of the non professional white collar jobs.
Thanks for the post.
J.R.
I gess that iz not thuh saym az eebonix, iz it?
Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each
I like this question. Today when I am asked about my origins, I have to give them as: "Somewhere between Berlin and Istambul"
Arithmetic
2.A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide.
How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3.If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu.,
deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
7.What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per m?
9.What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance around
which is 640 rods?
Flunked by NASA administrator and contractors in two successive Mars Probes...
(i.e., these problems involve dimensional analysis, in which you MUST keep the descriptor
attached to the quantitiy)
Hey, I'm not bashing NASA; I'm all for the home team and hope the curren shuttle mission goes OK.
10.Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.
Ashamed to admit it...I hadn't even tried this until College...
U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
7.Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
Howe? At first all I could think of was Steve Howe, guitarist for "Yes"...but
I suppose they mean General Howe of the British in the Rev. War.
8.Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, and 1865?
Except for 1849 and 1865...I can only guess...1607, start of the English Civil War (Charles vs. Cromwell)?
1620, end of English Civil War (or return of the Royals?). 1800? Help?
Geography (Time, one hour)
5.Name and describe the following: Hecla,Juan Fermandez, Aspinwall
7.Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
inclination of the earth.
Man, I can only guess on these...
What is so sad is that all those great minds knew the dangers of government education hundreds of years ago and we ignored their warnings with self-rightous indignation.
"Someone dig up a McGuffy Reader, it will put you to shame. I was shocked a long time ago, embarassed really."
As I've written many times here at FR, we are homeschoolers of some 15+ years. We have always used curricula provided by Christian Liberty Academy (C.L.A.S.S. program). They use the McGuffy Readers as standard texts. They're positively wonderful.
I was just in conversation...well, it turned out to be a heated debate about the reason for the low level of education today, "is due to computers and resource at your finger tips". This is why the advanced math, english, history etc., is not taught anymore".
I could not handle the other parties analysis...and stated the same argument when calculators became popular; "What will you do when your battery dies or when you don't have access to one..."
The response drove me away..."Oh, this is the nineties, that won't ever happen..."
All this may not be what it seems. You need to know some history to get a perspective on it. In the 19th century, kids were taught to parrot back the answers to questions like this. It didn't matter if they understood the answers.
Here's an example: Just after the turn of the century, the infamous Thomas Dewey once visited a high school class that had been studying the formation of the earth. He asked them what they had been learning about it. The teacher, ever helpful, asked the class:
"In what state is the interior of the globe?"
The students answered back, in unison:
"The interior of the globe is in a state of igneous fusion."
Pretty impressive! However, Dewey then asked the class:
"If the interior of the globe is in a state of igneous fusion, would the bottom of a very deep hole be warm or cold?"
None of the students could answer the question. They were used to memorizing questions and answers like a catechism, but hadn't thought about what those answers meant.
The 8th graders in 1895 probably had memorized the approved answers to all of the above questions too, with the probable exception of the math. Most kids around the country, though, didn't graduate from the 8th grade at all. They quit school to go to work, often on the family farm.
In 1917, the Army tried to give an intelligence test to the newly drafted soldiers. One-third of the solders couldn't read the test well enough even to attempt taking it.
I think we should give this test to 'the smartest couple in the world', those ole' standbys, the clintons. Let them take it in public and set an example for education in America.
" Wow, those 8th graders are getting used to get a better education than I did."
Me too.
If the liberals believed what you say they would be all for the voucher system..........oh, I get it, reverse psychology, eh? Good luck, nothing else seems to be working.
Not surprising. In order to subjugate the masses, it's a big help if they are illiterate.
Fat, dumb and disarmed is even better.
The more I study history, the more amazed I am at how many times we allow ourselves to make the same mistakes.
Someone dig up a McGuffy Reader, it will put you to shame. I have one used book store volume, yes I did suffer shame. I went to B&N one day and looked at their 8 volume set, there is nothing different than the phonics of today. They didn't have TV or radio-those readers (and the Bible)were the only entertainment in most homes and were well used.
Most of my grandparents only had an 8th grade education, they all could pass this test.
To those posting on this forum who have spent a small fortune sending your children to a college or university, you should be suing for misappropriation of funds. At least petition for a refund, becuase I doubt there are ANY college students in this country right now who could pass this test. I acquired a couple of math textbooks from the late 1880's a few weeks ago, and I was FLOORED by the information they contained! I would like to get my hands on some more of these...does ANYONE have a good source for 100 year-old textbooks covering the topics referenced in this post? (..and they have the B*LLS to ask us to contribute even MORE to the education cartel, when they have been turning out MORONS for nigh unto FORTY YEARS?)
I saw you looking at always rights paper #7. Same answers is proof you cheated.
I usta know all that stuff, until I forgot it.
Polls indicate the American people support MORE money for education...the socialist educrats must be laughing all the way to the bank! We are fools...utter fools...
If you want old text books, just look for your local Antiquarian Bookseller, (Used Book Store). It is where i found my McGuffy readers, bad shape, but worth it. Also, I pick up any old engineering manual I can find, that and almost any Christian book from the mid-1800's. Christian material does not exist anymore in modern form that can carry a candle to this stuff!
Alex Trebeck, host of Jeopardy, also hosts the annual "Geography Bee". Mentioned the other night that many recent winners are home schooled!
Oh come now, it is for the children, ya know...
What's the matter, are you anti-child or something?
Pay up now.
I fail, i fail today's 8 grade my reading and spelling are very low well below a 8 grade level i classify as being mild retarded.
Dude, I see your posts often enough to know that, "while you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer", so to speak, I honestly admire your honest and straight forward approach.
Keep up the good work,
Regards,
This was fun reading. Guess I can SWAG a few---1607=Jamestown, 1620=Plymouth, 1800 might be the Barbary War, 1849 is the Gold Rush, of course 1865 everybody knows. Who would late 19th century European republics be--France, Switzerland, Iceland? Mt. Hekla is an Icelandic volcano. Aspinwall--just got reminded of this due to the Panama Canal stories.
You never see fane anymore. That's a pretty standard wagon box--should be about 45 or 50 bushels?
Boy, those grammar questions would kick my butt.
So what has changed? The public schools focus on memorizing the politically correct answers to standardized tests. Kids are not encouraged to think for themselves or question their "superior" teachers and administrators. Woe be to any student who disagrees with the powers that be.
Grammar:
#4. What are the principal parts of a verb? Give principal parts of do, lie, lay and run.
I met him on a Monday and my heart stood still,
Da do lie lay and a run run run.
Somebody told me that his name was Bill,
Da do lie lay and a run run run.
Yes, his name was Bill, Yes, my heart stood still,
And when he walked me hame,
Da do lie lay and a run run run.
Are you hitting the sauce? You were doing okay until you hit the 'hame' word.
In 1919 the country was not segregated by IQ. People of mixed IQ's lived and worked together.
The College boomlet of the twenties, the standardized IQ testing, and finally the 50's GI Bill served quite effectively to segregate us by IQ.
Where a dumb joe would day-after-day be working side by side with a smart joe, and so be mano-a-mano and face-to-face influenced by him, today the dumb joes are all cattle in the video feed lot.
In many ways Bill Clinton is the apex of that IQ segregation experience.
Only Coca Cola on ice. But I think we're coming up on a full moon. My socks are gettin' a little furry.
Dear Fod:
Not all the teachers out there are filled with fluff and stuff. Here are a couple of whoppers I can still remember from my education:
At the end of Queen Anne's War, what Port was returned to the French after the signing of the Treaty of Resnick?
A: Port Arthur.
Who was Christine de Pisan and what did she contribute to the Troubadoors?
A: Christine de Pisan was a courtly love poet who accumulated stories of various ficitious and real women. Her compilation, The City of Ladies, gave boundaries to the ideal of chivalry and promoted the notion of chaste love.
Prior to his death from an arrow wound, King Richard fell from grace in his own Kingdom. What were the primary causes, both real and fictious, that lead to a decline in his popularity?
Real: his wars were extremely costly, both in funds and manpower, ravishing the resources of Great Britian in his fight against the French (particularly at Angileux). Fictious: It was rumored that King Richard had given the fabeled sword, Excalibur, as a gift to King Tancred of Leece.
What is the only proper placement of the word "however" in a sentence? "However" should join two complete but related sentences; it is always proceeded by a semi-colon and is always followed by a comma.
What is the biblical significance of the forest scene between Hester Prinn and Arthur Dimsdale in the book, "The Scarlett Letter"? How does Hawthorne use transcendentalism to add depth to this scene?
Explain all the methods a plant uses to grow?
Etc....
When I reached college, the most difficult assignment I ever received was as follows:
Read Herman Melville's book "Moby Dick." Note all uses of the word "hands" in the novel. Using a biblical concordinance, find all of the corrolating stories that also incorporate the word "hands" and draw parallels between the trials of the main characters and the biblical characters. What is the underlying theme? 5 pages or less.
Like I said, not all teachers were fluff and stuff. I had some fabulous teachers. I consider myself very lucky.
3.Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
Automobiles made by Nissan, a new American automobile company.
Ya know....I memorized the answers to the questions in the Catechism and the Latin responses for attending Mass when I was that young, too. What can I remember?.....God is the supreme bean (not withstanding the pretentious Limas, the under-rated kidney (both dark and light), and the lascivious Fava beans. Anything can be learned by rote.....the trick is integating the knowledge.
Regards,
"Just after the turn of the century, the infamous Thomas Dewey once visited a high school class..."
That would be the infamous John Dewey, would it not?
The infamous Thomas Dewey was a New York governor and two-time GOP candidate for president.
Warnings from Abroad
The long-standing precedent in other nations of government aid flowing to private and religious schools offers little cause for optimism. As Charles Glenn points out at the conclusion of his admirable survey, Choice of Schools in Six Nations,
For those who believe strongly in religious schooling and fear that government influence will come with public funding, reason exists for their concern. Catholic or Protestant schools in each of the nations studied have increasingly been assimilated to the assumptions and guiding values of public schooling. This process does not [even] seem to be the result of deliberate efforts . . . but rather of the difficulty, for a private school playing by public rules, to maintain its distance from the common assumptions and habits of the predominant system. [42]
A few sample passages from Glenn's work will give the reader an idea of the typical results of government funding of private education in France, Germany and, Britain.
· In France: "Didier Piveteau lamented that 'because of the close relationship created in 1958 between Catholic and government schools, it may be said that, apart from religion, the curriculum of the Catholic school has no distinctive features.'. . . By 1981, Socialist Minister of Education Alain Savary pointed out, 14 percent of the Catholic schools provided no religious instruction at all and 24 percent of them regarded school climate alone as the essence of their religious instruction." [43]
· In Germany: "The choice of a publicly supported Catholic school, for example, may not offer real pedagogical difference given substantial government regulation and pressure for uniformity." [44]
· In Britain: "The effect of supervision by local education authorities has led to a great deal of uniformity between council and voluntary schools, while secularization has weakened the confessional identity of many of the latter." [45]
World Bank economist Estelle James has surveyed the results of government funding schemes of every variety aimed at enabling families to choose from among government or religious and private schools. Her work offers equally dim prospects for vouchers. In an article in the International Encyclopedia of Education, James concludes that, in general,
substantial regulations usually accompany large subsidies. These regulations are similar to those applied to public schools; typically they specify hiring and firing procedures, credentials and salaries of teachers, criteria for selecting students, price and expenditures per student, and participants in the school's decision-making structure. In particular, they raise salaries and other costs while lowering private price and contributions. . . . Large private sectors in developed countries are heavily subsidized, heavily controlled and, in fact, these forces lead them to behave very much like the public sector. [46]
In a survey of public policies toward private education in a sample of 35 developed and developing countries, James draws two major conclusions regarding the effects of government subsidy of private education. First, that "private educational sectors in developing countries tend to be less subsidized (and less controlled) than in developed countries, yet they are also larger." Second, "government controls over private schools are found even without subsidies. However, heavy controls invariably accompany subsidies, particularly over teacher salaries and qualifications, price and other entrance criteria." [47]
Last, in her extensive study of Australia's policy of limited privatization begun in 1973, James concludes that "another consequence" of the experiment "was the increasing regulation and centralization of decisions and the loss of private school autonomy which limited the feasible range of options and will probably continue to do so in the future . . . most of these consequences were generic and would probably follow if this system were adopted in other countries." [48]
Faced with the experience of government funding of education in other nations and our own very mixed record of government aid to college students, proponents of vouchers may of course answer that America is different from the rest of the world, and that higher education is not the legal and political equivalent of elementary and secondary education. Those objections are correct as far as they go, but there are additional reasons to expect our experience with vouchers to follow similar lines, namely, the record of voucher plans that have already been proposed
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-269.html
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bttt
bump back
I have to object to the line of reasoning in the comment, "The disrupters in her school are always those that receive some form of government subsidy." As a person who attended a VERY WEALTHY high school and who has taught in the same type schools, I can tell you that the disruption comes NOT from socio-economic background, but rather,from a lack of parental involvement. Government subsidy does not guarantee a trouble maker nor does affluence promise a good student.
What public schools have you been to lately? You send your daughter to a private school and thus I think you are VERY out of touch with the reality of today's modern school. Teachers are now "facilitators" who must allow the students to "discover" knowledge by their own devices without the hinderance of some adult pretending to have anything to offer these already all-knowing self contained units. Offer any guidance and you are trampling on their precious self-esteem. If memorization lives it is in the private schools where one learns by rote the proscribed philosophies of whatever group runs the institution.
It ain't easy being sentenced in the prime years of the beginning of your life to an institution for 40 hrs./week, stuck in some classroom with some really strange people (including the teachers) trying to learn (and realizing you can't leave without permission).
Maybe there's something wrong with the system, itself, which has been around since 1930 (elementary school, jr. high, high school), not the students, teachers, administrators, etc..
My IQ didn't reflect on me, economically! But I hated school! Hated being around kids of my own age. But I graduated before the 1965 Civil Rights Act took effect!
I agree with you about the rich kids being unruly, however the same principle applies. I won't bore you with a dissertation on the "cancer of the unearned", other than to say it is reflected in our generation through people like Hillary. Any form of subsidy has a negative affect on it's recipients, including the loafer 2 offices down that does not earn his pay check. He, in turn, does not respect the value of money or values in general. How could he project any value to his family attending the school near you? Likely he likes the touchy feel good his kid is learning, and thinks it is the way of the future.
I am very aware of the public school in our small community, and that is exactly why my daughter is not a student there. My fear is that if vouchers are allowed, it will be the end of private education because of the strings the government will attach.
Definitely humbling.
So, if that's the test, where are the answers? I'd actually sorta like to see them, since I'd probably learn something from them.
BTW, here's a question I'd like to see more people taught the answer to:
|
Which two of the following three terms are synonyms: | ||
| i.e. | e.g. | to wit |
I assumed the Howe question dealt with Elias Howe, inventor of a sewing machine.
Hey, gmik! You've seen what so-called intelligent people can do to our country. I'll take an honorable man any day. I think you qualify.
Don't even start on Latin! Which, by the way, used to be an academic staple as well. I remember my older brother reading Caeser's Gallic Campaigns in Latin when he was in high school. I wouldn't bet he remembers one veni, vidi, vici of it, but he took the class. How many high schools even offer Latin anymore? The socialists have done a good job of cutting us off from that part of our heritage.
Ye Gads!!!!
Suddenly I are feelin' very sthopud.
This should be sent to every public school official, state governor, and Federal education official.
And you misspelled finished.
I'll second that, ironjack! Thanks also to race bannon...check out those used book stores, one hundred year-old textbooks are a revelation! Next time your children whine about homework, drop one of these classics in front of them, and watch their eyes bug out!
I'm going to pretend I didn't read this thread.
Don't want to feel like a dummy the rest of the evening.
I'm for vouchers and school choice because I don't think it's fair that parents should have to pay twice (through taxes AND tuition) for their kids to get a good education.
Whew! I'm a college graduate and Mensan, and I couldn't get past the first question. I thought Orthography had something to do with birds. I see Lonely Dem's point that the kids back then probably memorized most of this stuff, but then again, I don't remember having to memorize anything back in eighth grade myself. Anything I learned stuck to me naturally with little effort on my part. That's the secret to my success.:-)
Hey! That's an antique test for people long dead. We are far more advanced now and can take lego tests which are much more difficult for us college students. Those youngsters in 1895 didn't know what a lego is, much less be able to manipulate them into interesting designs for a passing college grade. (supreme sarcasm here!)
WHAT A FABULOUS FIND!
This should be sent to every public school official, state governor, and Federal
education official.
Mr. Rivero,
You take a lot of grief in this forum for your opinions, but let the word go forth
from this moment forward...
that on this issue, I agree with you 200%!!!
The only downside is that every public school official, too many state governors
and every Federal "education official" that got the test would automatically evaluate
this test for race and socioeconomic testing bias and calculate the
automatic free extra points based on the ethnic, gender and sexual
orientation of the test-takers, so that anyone who is a transgendered, bi-racial,
future pederast could score 200 points (of a possible 100) just by leaving finger prints on the test.
My rote memory is limited to what I have just written.
This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 from Salina, KS.
Things have changed since 1895, but the gap is not as great as it seems. At the turn of the century, very few kids finished grammar school, much less high school, so that even though the test is impressive in terms of the knowledge demanded, most kids back then couldn't pass it either. Not most kids in school, but most kids, which includes dropouts and those who never went to school.
Although I must add, sadly, that today very few college graduates could pass this test.
How about 1945? I was drafted, herded into a huge room with about 500 other unfortunates where we are all asked the question,"how many high school grads are there here? Raise your hands!" I was astounded that less than a fourth of the guys there raised their hands. It got worse: "how many cannot read and write?" There had to be as many as fifty in that category.
Somewhere in the Depression 30's and Wartime 40's perhaps these guys were forced to quit school and look for jobs. During the war the real test was to stay alive while Nazis and Nips did their best to terminate us. Many of the same "uneducated" guys who survived went back to school after the war, went on to college and many excelled. We are the dads of you Boomers and grandads of you Xers. Where did we go wrong?
As a retired HS teacher, I can remember collegues who were proponents of "discovery" as a pedagogic technique.
I would answer that we didn't have 2000+ years to work with.
This isn't tough.
You wanna see tough? Ask a 17 year-old to name the days of the week.
In proper sequence.
We are the dads of you Boomers and grandads of you Xers. Where did we go wrong?
Nothing personal...and this is just a personal opinion of someone in tbeir
early 40's...
I think that if Lenny Bruce had been locked up in a Federal Pen for the
first time he mentioned that "j-cking off his dog" was the
only obscene thing he had ever done, we would have been a little more civil in
our discourse.
If the first rock-star caught with illicit drugs had been publically prosecuted
and sentenced to the max. penalty, we'd stayed the hell away from drugs,
and if we'd either stayed out of Vietnam or gone in for the big win...
our military would be held in the respect they deserve by the general public.
These are not personal comments...just thoughts about what could have
changed the course of things.
But I really am not complaining, The Wall has fallen, The USA is really the last
superpower, and our economy expands.
It's up to our generation to make sure we (or some foreign power)
doesn't blow up what your generation achieved.
Too many of you were Democrats.
What no multiple choice? True/false? Open book? Partial credit? Does it come in an Ebonic version? Is it graded on a curve? The problem with our school's is that when you try to accommodate all of the minorities, feelings, languages, gay rights, & godless parents... You have no time left to teach anything. Obviously this test shows the erosion of our educational system. The 8th grade in 1895 is now equivalent to a college education.
Per capita income in Germany is nearly double ours. We got our 'old' education system from them....
We got our system from them, but that all changed when the communist took over the teachers/ school systems circa 1930's...
The Standard IQ test was deliberately designed not to require much of a formal education. A good number of those inductees with only grammar school educations did have high IQ's, and undoubtably contributed to whatever domestic and labor chores they engaged in on account of that (hidden) intellectual strength.
With the advent of early IQ tests, the proportion of such uneducated but highly intelligent folks in anything but college prep and white collar cohorts dwindled.
Thanks! I have high hopes for the future for my sons, daughters and grandkids. Pray for some sensible and moral leaders. They must not be dumocrats or the Republic is doomed!
You are right there Rock! Most were dumos because they were raised and severly brain-washed to think FDR was a minor deity (so my Dad said often). Not only that, the only press coverage in the 30's and 40's was pro-Democrat. Pubbies were trashed daily by the reigning press.
For reasons I cannot explain, I voted Republican every time. I liked being the "rebel" I suppose, and I could not stand FDR. However, as compared to JFK, LBJ, Carter and the worst-- Klintoon, FDR was near normal.
"The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all; it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to put down dissent and originality"
I thought this was the job of the church?
A good post, and good comments. Sad to say, the defects of modern education, particularly when it comes to the proper use of the English language, are all too evident on this very forum.
How many times have you seen posters (many of them with intelligent ideas) who don't know the difference between your and you're; between its and it's; or, most incredibly to me, between to and too?
I have been thinking about the test, and I have come to the conclusion that more than anything else, this test from 1895, when compared to modern public schooling, evidences a clear design by the government of the United States to create a generation of citizens blinded to political cause and effect, unable to evaluate, unable to think critically, but easily aroused to anger, easily led around by fashion (a polite word for "herd instinct"), and therefore easy to convince that the shiniest slave chains are the most desirable.
"to create a generation of citizens blinded to political cause and effect, unable to evaluate, unable to think critically"
You nailed it with this phrase. Critical thinking is gone from our culture as a whole and it is the fault of the educational system. So called "objective" tests, those standardized multiple guess jokes, have taken the place of derided "subjective" tests. Look at the phrases used in the above test: define, give an account, tell what you can, describe, who were, name events, what is meant, of what use, name all, why. These are phrases that require essays for the most part and all require critical thinking. The grader of these answers obviously look for some basic knowledge to be present, but more importantly they look for understanding of the subject matter within the answer. Can you imagine a test on the civil war today that instead of looking like
What was the cause of the Civil War?
a) Slavery
b) Communism
c) The Whisky Rebellion
d) Prohibition
looked something like
Name one cause of the Civil War and discuss the influence that it had on the population of the Oklahoma territory.
Teachers would shudder at the latter question.
I agree.
The purpose of education is to make the choices clear to people, not to make the choices for people.-Peter McWilliams
Bttt
, I don't remember having to memorize anything back in eighth grade myself.
This (and only this) is what I remember memorizing from 8th grade:
A trick that everyone abhors in little girls is slamming doors.
A wealthy banker's little daughter who lived in Palace Green, Bayswater,
by name Rebecca Offendort was given to this furious sport.
She would deliberately go and slam the doors like billy-ho
to make her Uncle Jacob start. She wasn't really bad at heart
but only rather rude and wild. She was an aggravating child.
It happened that a marble bust of Abraham was standing just
above the door this little lamb had carefully prepared to slam.
And down it came! It knocked her flat! It laid her out! She looked like that!
..........................
Her funeral sermon, which was long, and followed by a sacred song
mentioned her virtues, it is true, but dwelt upon her vices too
and shows the dreadful end of one who goes and slams the door for fun.
That's it. That's what I remember. For my 11th grade class, I can produce the scene in Romeo and Juliet where Juliet is about to take the potion that will make her fall into a death like sleep. And for 1st year French I can recite Jacques Prevert's "Dejeuner du Matin." So far none of this has done me the slightest bit of good.
MY GAWD I HAD NO IDEA THAT I WAS THAT BIG A DUNCE MEGA BUMPS FOR POINTING THIS OUT.
The only thing I had to memorize was Hamlet's soliloquy as a high school senior:
To be or not to be; that is the question;
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune;
Or to take arm against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die: to sleep.
.........
To sleep; perchance to dream. Aye, there's the rub;
For in this sleep of death what dreams may come,
After we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause.
Don't ask me for the rest!
What was the cause of the Civil War?
a) Slavery
b) Communism
c) The Whisky Rebellion
d) Prohibition
In seventh grade (and this isn't that long ago--public school, late '70s) we were taught that there were four causes of the Civil War. Slavery was one of them.
The above question is simply wrong. It would be appropriate to say "What was a cause of the Civil War?"
I have a friend who has just finished his first year of teaching High School history. Because he was trying to teach all that he felt was important, as this is the only history class most of his students would take during high school or college, he talked to a veteran teacher about how detailed he should be for each section. When he asked about the Civil War he was told: It lasted five years, the President was Lincoln who was assassinated at the end, and it was over slavery. When he said that it wasn't over slavery he was told,"Well don't confuse them, because that's what they've been taught their whole lives."
That's why I put that question that way, because according to many modern High School history teachers it was slavery and nothing else is of importance.
It lasted five years
I suppose we shouldn't confuse the kids by telling them it really lasted four years (1861-1865), either.
The war occurred in five seperate years, from Feb. 1861 to April 1865. Granted, thats only 50 months, or just over 4 complete years, but it did occur during five years. You are right if you look at it from one point of view, but five years is also correct from a point of view. Not trying to get into semantics over it because it's a minor point compared to "slavery is the reason".
BUMP
bump, AGAIN
111 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:32:11 PST by sirgawain
112 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:32:56 PST by sirgawain
113 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:33:45 PST by sirgawain
114 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:39:10 PST by mdwakeup
115 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:39:48 PST by svcw
ok, it didn't work.
So, you can't pass the 8th Grade, LOL!!!
116 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:40:23 PST by Victoria Delsoul
117 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:42:07 PST by thefactor
118 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:46:02 PST by thefactor
119 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:47:36 PST by Snuffington
120 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:47:54 PST by fod
121 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:50:29 PST by sirgawain
122 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:51:32 PST by Anitius Severinus Boethius
123 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:53:16 PST by itsinthebag
Of course he did. But he needed help from George Carlin.
124 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:56:23 PST by Snuffington
Now I am really embarassed. I had never even heard of the McGuffey Reader. Here is a good explanation of what it was McGuffey Reader
125 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:58:50 PST by mc5cents
The war actually last much longer. It began in the debates over Kansas, and it didn't really end until the 1960's when the KKK was finally nailed hard by the Federal government. ok, so you think that's too long, but also remember that during the late 1860's and early 1870's there were a half million armed members of the KKK roving the South, and some estimate the total number of victims at a million. There is no clear record, just a flood of actual reports of bodies all over the country side. Congressional hearings in 1871 finially resulted in the KKK Act of 1871 which suspended Habeus Corpus in York County, South Carolina and sent the troopers out arresting those charged with documented and unpunished crimes. Over two hundred were arrested, but 800 more on the list fled the county to avoid arrest.
While most of the crimes went unpunished, the arrests severely dampended the ardor of the KKK, though murders and lynching continued on into the 1960's.
126 Posted on 12/04/2001 12:59:04 PST by Elihu Burritt
127 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:00:24 PST by OrioleFan
128 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:04:17 PST by ez2muz
129 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:05:19 PST by Brett66
I find it easier to believe that the system went bad despite people's beliefs in it, rather that it was made that way to keep us down. Is it not possible that misguided people thought that it work and are in denial about its failure, rather than some conspiricy to purposefully dumb children down so they will make better slaves? I am more liable to believe in a group of well-meaning power-hungry busibodies, than some over-arching generation-spanning plan to destroy us through new math.
Why did it go bad? Because socialism doesn't work, bluntly speaking. But I think some people put the cart before they horse when they say that the schools are a communist conspiricy. I don't think they started out that way. I do think the results begin to resemble a government indoctrination program, but are not these results achievable by horrible accident? Is this not the result of a failed model, rather than the model working out exactly like the star-chamber wanted?
Please don't get me wrong. I want the government out of education. The left wing think it's too important for government to leave alone, well I think it's too important for the government to control. Rather than a conspiracy, aren't bad schools a self-fulfilling prophecy?
130 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:06:28 PST by Liberal Classic
131 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:06:42 PST by cinFLA
132 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:06:46 PST by Anitius Severinus Boethius
Take away three hours a day of TV and the possiblities are almost endless.
133 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:06:49 PST by Elihu Burritt
LOL! good find, Snuffington. Thanks.
134 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:11:12 PST by Victoria Delsoul
On the flip side, I'm reading a book on homeschooling where the author talks about her friend's ten year-old son who is reading "War and Peace" just for fun.
FP
135 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:11:16 PST by FourPeas
But how do you define the beginning and end of the war? If not by the fighting which you admit went on much longer, then how?
Commonly the time period from Ft Sumter to Lee's surrender is cited, but the time frame from the secession of South Carolina to the re-admittance of the last seceded state is perhaps more appropriate. In any case, fighting following the Secession of South Carolina began in January 1861, not April, and the last Confederate surrender of organized forces was not at Appomattox. It is certainly more appropriate to at least say five years.
136 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:14:10 PST by Elihu Burritt
137 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:22:12 PST by Elihu Burritt
138 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:22:36 PST by Anitius Severinus Boethius
139 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:25:40 PST by Silly
No true. Joe Johnston commanded a larger army in the hill country. One of the great failures of the Confederacy was to never create a unified military command. It was Lee who vetoed the idea.
I agree that fighting was not started by Sumter nor ended at Lee's signature, but we are talking about "the war". The firing on Fort Sumter was the first action taken by a Confederate soldier against Union soldiers. Lee's surrender was the last act of the undefeated Confederate Army. Those acts book-end the war.
There were several actions before Sumter. One when Confederates opened fire on a supply ship going to Sumter, and fighting in Florida over another Fort. Actions against Confederate forces in Texas occurred after Joe Johnston surrendered. The end of the war is a matter of convention more than fact. That of course was the genius of the war waged by Lincoln. The war started when Davis announced it would, and the war ended when Lee said it did. But those were only the actions of two individuals. Had it not been so, the South could easily have won if it had wanted to. The simple fact was it did not.
140 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:31:49 PST by Elihu Burritt
My father, who grew up in rural North Carolina in the 1930's, remembers when there was an actual graduation ceremony at the end of the SIXTH grade, because a lot of kids ended school at that point, and went back to the family farm or the local mill. But they could read, write and "cipher," more than we can say for a shocking percentage of public school 6th-graders today.
141 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:36:46 PST by ihatemyalarmclock
142 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:38:38 PST by okiecowgirl
FReegards
The Failing Teacher and the Teachers' Code of Silence
Source: CNSNews.com; Published: December 3, 2001
Author: Glenn SacksTime for outrage! Linda Bowles reports latest results in America's public schools
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: November 27, 2001
Author: Linda BowlesIlliterate in Boston: Samuel Blumenfeld explains U.S.'s ongoing reading problem
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: July 20, 2001
Author:Samuel BlumenfeldNEA - Let our children go!
Source: WorldNet Daily; Published: June 23. 2001
Author: Linda HarveyWhy Do Schools Play Games With Students' Minds ?
Source: The Detroit News; Published: April 1, 2001
Author: Thomas SowellThe Public School Nightmare: Why fix a system designed to destroy individual thought?
Source: http://home.talkcity.com/LibraryDr/patt/homeschl.htm
Author: John Taylor GattoDumbing down teachers
Source: USNews.com; Published: 2/21/01
Author: John LeoFree Republic links to education related articles (thread#8)
Source: Free Republic; Published: 3-20-2001
Author: VariousAre children deliberately 'dumbed down' in school? {YES!!!}
Source: World Net Daily; Published: May 13, 2001
Author: Geoff Metcalf {Interview}New Book Explores America's Education Catastrophe
Source: Christian Citizen USA; Published: April 2000
Author: William H. WildDeliberately dumbing us down (Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt's, "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America"
Source: WorldNetDaily.com; Published: December 2,1999
Author: Samuel L. BlumenfeldCould they really have done it on purpose?
Source: THE LIBERTARIAN; Published: 07/28/2000
Author: Vin SuprynowiczFrom the Littleton Crisis to Government Control Littleton Crisis to Government Control
The UN Plan for Your Mental Health The UN Plan for Your Mental Health
143 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:39:19 PST by Stand Watch Listen
That such indoctrination could pass for knowledge without a mention of the social injustices inflicted onthe world by Europeans and European Americans!
</ sarcasm>
144 Posted on 12/04/2001 13:50:57 PST by matamoros
145 Posted on 12/04/2001 14:03:57 PST by ladyinred
This is simply not true. Here's the proof:
One person added to three welfare checks has more money than three persons added to one welfare check. Everyone knows that.
146 Posted on 12/04/2001 18:00:29 PST by Elihu Burritt
147 Posted on 12/04/2001 18:12:59 PST by sixtycyclehum
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