It's: http://www.tapco.com/
Even I can remember this one. They also stock radios, camping gear and other goodies.
-archy-/-
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Crime Rate Plummets - Why Doesn't The Media Visit Kennesaw?
"The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes. The city's population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982. And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998. With all the attention that has been heaped upon the lawful possession of firearms lately, you would think that a city that requires gun ownership would be the center of a media feeding frenzy. It isn't. The fact is I can't remember a major media outlet even mentioning Kennesaw. Can you? The reason is obvious. Kennesaw proves that the presence of firearms actually improves safety and security. This is not the message that the media want us to hear. They want us to believe that guns are evil and are the cause of violence. The facts tell a different story. What is even more interesting about Kennesaw is that the city's crime rate decreased with the simple knowledge that the entire community was armed. The bad guys didn't force the residents to prove it. Just knowing that residents were armed prompted them to move on to easier targets. Most criminals don't have a death wish. There have been two occasions in my own family when the presence of a handgun averted potential disaster. In both instances the gun was never aimed at a person and no shot was fired."
Bump this and spread it around folks.
Bump
I have never owned a gun. Didn't get the benefit of that kind of upbringing--my dad died when I was young. Now in my 30's, would like to learn. I consider it as important as learning how to drive that a man should know how to use a gun.
I would like to own a rifle and a pistol. I figure I might should start with something small, like a 22 calibur? Or is this unnecessarlily small? Can any one give me a recommmendation as I am going to start shopping soon? What can I get relatively inexpensive?
Looking forward to joining the NRA.
This is great, and I'd love to believe it in its entirety, but I'm leery of accepting anything that quotes email as a source. Have you seen a copy of The New American magazine with this article in it, and does it cite a source for the statistics? All too often we spread email gossip, then have egg on our face when it proves to be a hoax. Thanks for the posting, and I hope you can run it down to the source.
Regards, Lenny
The advice a police range officer I know gives is this: Use the heaviest recoil weapon of the type you are practicing with to begin and end your practice. I take this to mean the basic mechanics are transferrable from small caliber weapons, but one should make sure the recoil isn't going to startle you or throw you off. He has told me of stories where the police officer, upon firing a .357 round in need has stopped, fixated on his firearm, because he only practiced with .38 special. I think working with a .22 for a while will allow you for a time to train on the basic mechanics without learning to cringe from the recoil, as often happens with learners - and the cost of .22 is small compared to that of larger caliber rounds.
A .22 is fine for plinking, cheap to shoot, and is better than no gun at all, but if you are seeking a home defense weapon, go for something with greater stopping power. I myself own three handguns; all are .22 caliber. This is because I enjoy shooting the guns frequently, and .22 shells are going for around 10 dollars for 500 rounds. By comparison, 25 .357 rounds are between 10 and 20 bucks a box.
For home defense I prefer a 12 gauge semi-auto shotgun with 00 buckshot. You don't have to hit the target with a single projectile, and whoever gets hit is going down pronto. I can put a lot of lead in the air fast.
I figure I might should start with something small, like a 22 calibur? Or is this unnecessarlily small? Can any one give me a recommmendation as I am going to start shopping soon? What can I get relatively inexpensive?
Start with saftey first.
You shouldn't have any problems with a .357 magnum,or a good 9mm.Just choose something that you will be happy with.Your going to get a hundred different answers on this question though.
Sounds like a 22 pistol will be a good buy for me. As for the shotgun, I figured that would eventually be the real home defense gun. Was wondering if I should get a rifle first, or just go right for the shotgun.
I am going to the sportsman shop next weekend, but in the meantime I really appreciate the input.
Where does a guy go to get shooting instruction? A firing range? Thanks for the help.
Join the NRA and take one or more of their courses, they're excellent. The courses will help you decide what type of firearm you'd like. A lot of firearm owners have several for different purposes. Some like a shotgun to defend the home, for example. In our state we have to carry concealed, so I like a small caliber for summer and a bigger gun when winter clothing make concealed carry easier. Some people like revolvers because they're easier to maintain, others like semo-autos that won't snag clothing. People take different things into consideration when choosing a gun and that's one reason I highly recommend the courses. Both students and teachers will be helpful.
KENNESAW, GEORGIA passed this law mandating that everone keep a firearm after Morton Grove,Ill. banned handguns. I don't think that they have ever inforced it though.
There is a firearm parts dealer in Kennesaw called TAPCO. I bought some things from them,and if anyone is interested,I might be able to find their URL
I can vouch for the statistics in general. In the gun club world, Kennesaw is well known. Years ago, I had heard and 83% crime drop after the first year and that's close enough for me. You just never see mention of it in the popular press.
As a business owner in Kennesaw, I can attest to the accuracy of this article.
Popular warning sign used in front yards - NEVER MIND THE DOG, BEWARE OF THE OWNER.
I love my .22 Berretta. Put stingers in that thing and the bullets will go through 12" of newspaper. It's about the size of a pack of cigarettes, easily concealable and small enough so it's just point and shoot. Very accurate. The Mossad love them, too.
Bump To The Top!
sciencediet
Curious about your screename.
Do you like dogfood ?
Do we have this somewhere?
Bump. Although I think gun control advocates could try to make trouble by challenging mandatory gun laws. Have no real reason for thinking so except for our judiciary, which I think is often open to legal arguments that ignore the constitution.
My husband purchased his mother & me a Colt 38 caliber Special about 20 years ago because someone shot into the home of an elderly neighbor. He had other guns, but he thought we could handle the 38 the best. It is small, but does not fit in the palm of hand by any means. He said those kind (palm size) would get you killed.
Curious about your screename. Do you like dogfood ?
No, it's tasteless, but I do like to give it to dogs. Keeps their teeth healthy.
If your going to buy a revolver,do not buy a .38
You can shoot .38's in a .357 mag,but you cannot shoot .357's in a .38
Sorry Nightowl but .357's are more versatile
I used to feed it to my Rottwielers
I know...
I just got a kick out of a completely armed city NOT exploding into a crime ridden Dodge City.. In fact being quite the opposite..
It's just one more statistic that can be thrown at the libs..
Yup, you're correct. If you're not looking to be sexy or conceal, a 12g is hard to beat. I believe it is the equivelent of nine 32 caliber bullets in the air at once. That's hard to argue with. My 12g is eight shots and I can shoot all eight in less than fifteen seconds. That's 256 32 caliber bullets in the air in the blink of an eye. I've never had to shoot it in anger, imagine that! I have equally efficient long range capability too.
Yup, you're correct. If you're not looking to be sexy or conceal, a 12g is hard to beat. I believe it is the equivelent of nine 32 caliber bullets in the air at once. That's hard to argue with. My 12g is eight shots and I can shoot all eight in less than fifteen seconds. That's 256 32 caliber bullets in the air in the blink of an eye. I've never had to shoot it in anger, imagine that! I have equally efficient long range capability too.
It's just one more statistic that can be thrown at the libs..
The more they want to disarm us, the firmer I stand behind our second amendment. Every time a government has disarmed its populace, bad things have happened. And we should all keep that in mind, be they libs or not.
Another great stat is the number of conceal-and-carry permits which have been issued.
I've heard that 97,000 permits have been approved in the Tenn/NC area - and not one of those weapons have been used in any crime.
Just a thought, I feel a shotgun is the best for home defense, it will stop someone (and throw them back), and not go through the house wall or apartment and hit the neighbors. Get trained and practice.
cro [#11] wrote:
There is a firearm parts dealer in Kennesaw called TAPCO. I bought some things from them,and if anyone is interested,I might
be able to find their URL.
It's: http://www.tapco.com/
Even I can remember this one. They also stock radios, camping gear and other goodies.
-archy-/-
Another great stat is the number of conceal-and-carry permits which have been issued.
As of 1996, I think it was over 200,000 for FL, and only 17 revocations for crimes (including having one in the car during DWI, walking into a federal building, and some others)
BUMP
..... The Mossad love them, too .....
Shalom, Shalom .....
I rather like it. (the use of sciencediet as a screename, that is)
Just a thought, I feel a shotgun is the best for home defense, it will stop someone (and throw them back), and not go through the house wall or apartment and hit the neighbors. Get trained and practice.
Most people do think that a shotgun is the perfect home defense arm.
However I think that a good pistol is better,for the simple reason that it is shorter than a shotgun,and a lot easier to swing in the confined spaces in a house.And it's a lot harder to take one away from somebody.
It's not hard to hit a man sized target at twenty five feet.
Also,I handload and run my .357's for home use at about 1275 feet per second with 125 grain jacketed hollwpoints. You need to run a jacketed pistol bullet at least 1200 per second to get it to expand.So I run mine just enough to get them to expand,and not go through the walls and hit my neighbor a couple doors down.
.38's don't run fast enough to expand the jacket.
I managed to get three of the four military manuals that were to be banned from them before they were banned.
Improvised munitions
Silencers
Booby traps
At least I think thats the three.
When I first glanced at your post,I thought you were going to say that you personally tried it.LOL
sorry
I gotta get the hang of this HTML. I am really sorry for this.
My daughter is a junior at Kennesaw State University and I don't fear for
her safety as I would if she went to Tech or
GSU in downtown Atlanta. I would point out that Kennesaw is not
but 25 miles from Atlanta, which is well within the Metro area. The
ordinance was implemented because of worries of creeping crime from Atlanta
and Marietta. It would be interesting to compare crime in other areas
with that of Kennesaw.
I've heard that 97,000 permits have been approved in the Tenn/NC area - and not one of those weapons have been used in any crime.
Hey LIBERALS, triple the taxes on guns and yearly registrations! Tobacco has been soaked too far!
(sarcasm)
Do it for the chilrun.
P.S.- Like that screen name. I guess I used no imagination.
Damn those BOLDS! Nice Bold..
A few years ago, for a friend's birthday (this friend introduced me to shooting) I rented for him a Desert Eagle in .50AE at the local range. We both put 10 rounds through it. After I shot my 10 rounds, I loaded his revolver with some .38spl wadcutters, put out a new target, aimed, and pulled the trigger, and flinched severelyly.
[pop]
I looked at the gun, thinking [in Marvin the Martian's voice]: "Where's the kaboom!? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!" For the rest of the night, I had no problems with flinching from the .38spl (or even .357mag) recoil.
Thanks. My screen name came as an inspiration. Ones I wanted were taken, so I was trying to come up with one. I had just fed the dogs. I looked at the bag and had this profound thought that a diet is also a A legislative or administrative assembly - and, if it could only be a science (my science, of course). Hence a screen name was born.
BUMP!
Good post, Boomerang.
You also don't see anything about the fact that Vermont, with a CCW law that states, in short, that you can carry a concealed weapon with no form of registration or license, having the second lowest violent crime rate in the nation.
Follow the link above to the US Census site to see for yourself.
" I believe it is the equivelent of nine 32 caliber bullets in the air at once. That's hard to argue with. My 12g is eight shots and I can shoot all eight in less than fifteen seconds. That's 256 32 caliber bullets in the air in the blink of an eye.
Nine 32cal. bullets(pellets) x 8 shots(rounds) comes out to 72 pellets in the air in the blink of an eye when I do the math, Blam! 9x8=72 not 256.
Huck, take a lesson from an NRA Certified Instructor (I offer them free to fellow Freepers in my area), they usually have several firearms avaliable for you to choose from and will help you find something suitable.
"Also,I handload and run my .357's for home use at about 1275 feet per second with 125 grain jacketed hollwpoints. You need to run a jacketed pistol bullet at least 1200 per second to get it to expand."
Ever seen a 45 cal. 190gr.HP bullet after it's been dug out of a human body? I have, plenty of expansion there at approx. 800 fps!
Or..."Be aware of the dog, he eats everything I shoot."
Not to mention, if anyoned (burglar for example) sticks around when you jack a round into the chamber of a 12 guage, he is nuts anyway. That is why I like pumps.
I have been thinking about making a device that just plays that sound. Pretty scary.
Huck,
One other poster said you'll get a hundred different replies,,, well you didn't but I'm quit sure that you would have if enough folks responded to this article. Anyway, and before I go any further, I am what my screen name implies. As a 54 year old gun/bulletsmith I've tried everything that came along for both competition and self defense. And before I go any further let me tell you that the trend amongst the winningest shooters are "slow, heavy bullets" as far as handguns are concerned. The tried and true 45ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) goes STILL unmatched. Yes, a 12 gauge is a prime home defense system BUT,,,, it won't cut the mustard when it comes to the need of an accurate shot when it comes down to avoiding hitting another family member.THIS IS PARAMONT !!!
In the competition community we have a saying that goes as such,,,Beware of the man that shots one gun. Explaination: Whatever you get for a handgun,,, shoot it faithfully and whenever you can. Recommendation ??? Nothing less than 38 special (still used by many law enforcement agents). Someone posted to you that you can shoot 38's out of a gun that is designed to handle the interior ballistics of a 357 magnum (but not 357's out of a gun designed to ONLY handle the said ballistics of a 38 ONLY),,, that is 100% correct.
I am an NRA Pistol Permit Instructor also and I'm prompted to make available several various calibers for permittees to "try". The reason for this is to give the permittee a chance to experience the various levels of firepower (defined by caliber).
Expect a 22 rimfire to render the stopping power necessary to down a perpetrator. It's a fact that small caliber (up to 32 caliber) rounds have been documented to just "Piss Off A Large Human Being" enough to come on even stronger.
DEFINETE RECOMMENDATION: If you can efficiently and comfortably handle a gun in 45acp, GO THAT ROUTE. But there is one more factor I want to stress with you. If you know deep with-in your heart that you WON'T be able to spend quality time shooting a semi-auto pistol (to get proficient with it because they DO miss-cycle sometimes) purchase a good wheel gun (revolver). They are much more dependable.
If you have any questions,,, reply to this post and I'll get back to you. REASON ???: I'd rather have you amongst the ranks as "ARMED FOR DEFENSE" than a victim that has been mis-led by anything or anyone.
Good night my friend... END...
Yup. You got me there. I multiplied 32caliber x 8 shells. Duh! Being an ex-chip maker, 256 was a familiar and comfortable number. Thanks for the correction. Well, 72 is a lot of lead in the air too!
I also have been looking for a first handgun. I've been kinda interested in the 9x18 Makarov, just because I've heard that they are very reliable, and they are a good value - well under $200. Some were at a gunshow hereabout at around $135-$145.
How are they as far as stopping power? What are your comments?
Free ownership of handguns is one of inherent rights of a free citizen. It is also a Christian responsibility.
It's like this: people who are in favor of more government want more power over every individual life in this country. They would like to convince people to give them power. But when that fails, they see nothing wrong in taking that power by force.
A Christian puts his or her faith in God first and foremost. It's that faith that a Christian tries to show to people every day, wherever it is that God puts them or who He brings them into contact with. When a person abides in Christ, they are showing the world that they have overcome it, not by their own power but by Christ within them. They want others to know that, so that they will overcome too.
But sometimes, the world doesn't want to be overcome. It tries to overcome the Christian instead, and that's why it's a morally correct thing for a Christian to own a gun. When a free person has a gun in hand, they are telling the world, in effect, "don't think that I'm naive to what you're capable of." The world might not want to understand God, but it does understand a gun. That's what the gun becomes: the final symbol of power that the world cannot help but understand.
Someone who has entrusted their lives to God really does have the system cornered. The system is trying to make them forget that, though.
You can shoot .38's in a .357 mag,but you cannot shoot .357's in a .38
While this is true, there are other considerations, like frame size or weight that might lead one to choose a .38 spl revolver over a .357 mag.
May I suggest "IDPA.com" for a start and a range that will rent before you buy so you can find something simple like a revolver or semi auto your comfortable with.
By all means listen, try and practice , practice , practice, ammo is cheaper than blood.
"..email as a source" is a surely pertinent question.
The URL that was given with the story is http://www.chu ckbaldwinlive.com
and I can swear that I had entered into the FR "Post" settings. Did I miss something (?)
Regards, Boomerang
These anecdotes are quite consistent with the conclusions of the seminal work More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws by John R. Lott, Jr. (UChicago, Chicago 1998 ISBN: 0-226-49363-6). Read it. Do your own research.
Many thanks. It sounds like my first stop will be the NRA. ANd worry not, I will be a responsible gun owner. (for my own good as well as others). I appreciate the help.
Bump.
Media sharks need the guns gathered up so the criminals can shoot up the places and make news. Dead crooks do not make news. If somebody kills a bunch the blood a guts media has good pictures, a long hearing and trials. Now that is news.
Huck, get clear on what you want from your firearm. For target practice .22's are great. Ruger makes nice semi's that are very reasonable ($220) and ammo is CHEAP.
It is also better to learn with a low recoil weapon and master it than it is to start with a magnum or .45 ACP and develop bad habits like flinching. The same can be said for rifles, in that the basics are the same, but it is easier to learn and cheaper to shoot a .22 than a .30-06.
If you are looking for a concealed carry, consider a double action only semi-automatic or a revolver. Those are both very well suited to the purpose and much more reliable under pressure for those who have never had to under go immediate action drills under pressure. A range instructor can fill you in with more detail.
What's most important is to find something that fits your hand, feels comfortable, fits your purpose and the Practice, Practice, Practice. 50 rounds a week is better than 200 rounds once a month.
Buy the best you can afford, but don't get fooled into thinking that an $800 pistol will do better than a $300 simply because of the name. (My old Colt .45 is very accurate, but I lust for a nice Kimber or Springfield Arms .45)
Remember, that in a pinch, that .38 Model 85 2" barrel that you are good with is better than the H&K or Glock that is unfamiliar. Any gun in hand is better than the best gun still in the car!
Good post, Boomer.
In Switzerland each male adult head of household is requried to have an assault rifle. He represents the Swiss military and must be prepared for the "call to arms" at any time.
I wonder if that has anything at all to do with the low crime rate in Switzerland.
Monday morning poser.
Bump and Bang post, yooper.
And putting a lot of lead in the air fast is the point, isn't it? And whoever is in front of that lead will go down fast. Mission accomplished.
Twelve inches of newpapers? Wow.
My ex bought a little 9 mm Beretta. What a dainty little weapon. It fits right in my hand. Of course, when he let me hold it and pull the trigger he, um, unloaded it.
:o)
Oops, ya answered my question about dog food, SD.
For people who have never been to Atlanta, It's hard to explain how Atlanta is laid out. Instead of a metropolis center, there are communities laid out that radiate out from downtown. The 285 by-pass goes around Atlanta in a 35 mile loop. Kennesaw is about 12 miles from 285. There are multiple communities both inside and outside the 285 "perimeter". Crime is a problem in most parts of Atlanta, but not in Kennesaw. Criminals know to steer clear of Kennesaw, or they may very well be shot by their intended victims. Besides there are easier targets in the other communities where guns are considered evil. Criminals are happy that most people have been conditioned to believe firearms are bad, and are most willing to take advantage of it. Kennesaw doesn't have this problem though, and they have maintained an almost non-existant crime rate. As for the media covering this, you won't hear a peep about Kennesaw because it flies in the face of their anti-gun doctrine. As I've said before, the truth is the enemy of people who want to take away your rights. To actually see what the proliferation of arms to a responsible citizenry does would not bode well for the media cabal's cause, therefore you wont hear a word about it. The ironic thing is that CNN headquarters is no more that 17 mi. away from Kennesaw and I would be willing to bet that there are more than a few CNN exec's who live there. Because of the low crime rate it is growing fast, and many perimeter dwellers are heading for the outer limits of Atlanta. Kennesaw is a much desired location for these people who see their neigbors murdered, robbed and raped all to often. Want the truth about guns? Go to Kennesaw, GA. The residents there will give it to you straight.
Tapco is a great source for just about anything you need, but they don't have a storefront. You can order your stuff online, or over the phone and have it shipped, or if you live in the area they have a pick up desk. They have excellent prices and excellent service as well. But my favorite place in Kennesaw is Brigade Quartermasters. Definitely a must visit if you're in the Atlanta area. You can go their website Here
Got an old Series 70, spent around $300.00 over the cost of the gun customizing and accurizing it. Bought a Kimber custom Classic for 500.00 and it shoots almost as well right out of the box.
DO NOT,,, REPEAT,,, DO NOT Expect a 22 rimfire to render the stopping power necessary to down a perpetrator. It's a fact that small caliber (up to 32 caliber) rounds have been documented to just "Piss Off A Large Human Being" enough to come on even stronger.
Absolutely! The aforementioned use by the Mossad is as an assassins weapon. It is used as such because it is small, has low recoil even in a small weapon, is relatively quiet, and sufficient punch to enter the brain cavity through the skull (think two feet against a suprised target). It is pretty near useless in defense. What I was suggesting it would be good for is beginning training, and extending your training more cheaply.
I've been kinda interested in the 9x18 Makarov
I am not sure how hard it is to get 9x18 ammo, but it is definitely harder than the more popular calibers. You can get a new barrel and convert that Makarov to a .380, though. A .380 is kind of puny and the Makarov is bigger than it needs to be for that round but if you aren't going to carry it, bigger is better.
While this is true, there are other considerations, like frame size or weight that might lead one to choose a .38 spl revolver over a .357 mag.
Most variants I've seen are the exact same frame size, just a differently cut cylinder, but then I don't use particularly old weapons either.
.22's are deadly at close range. In Paducah, the shooter killed 3 with a .22. However, you are also right about the .22 not being a good self-defense weapon.
As far as 'old' weapons, you mean old fashioned like revolvers or old fashioned like the 1911? Or simply recently purchaced weapons? I have confidence in my .38, .357, 9mm, and .45. Only the 9mm is a new or new technology weapon.(DAO subcompact with polymer slide) Got rid of the .22 because it wan't even any good on the range, however, I'm looking for a replacement.
Muffaletaman,
I must be honest with you, Ive never had the opportunity to work on one (or any other chambered for that particular round) BUT,,, I CAN give you the stats regarding the exterior ballistics, which is AFTER the bullet exits the muzzle. KEEP IN MIND,,, they are a relatively weak round as they only achieve somewhere in the vicinity of 21,000±: psi and 900± to 1000- fps.
As far as I know (and I give sincere effort to keep up with the latest and greatest) there are basically only two bullets available. 95 & 100 grainers,,, quite light to have any respectful stopping power. And just as a matter of fact for your knowledge, there are ONLY three other rounds that use lighter bullets being the .32 H&R Magnum, the .32 Auto and the .25 Auto. Unfortunately there is relatively little data regarding that round and very little available re-loading equipment for it.
Average barrel length for this round average 4" and give you NO real advantage regarding concealability. I'm not going to tell you what to do but it would probably be best served to consider a 40 S&W Auto (which is actually a scaled down 10mm). Reasons: similar in size, ammo much more available and if you ever go into reloading, brass is plentiful (and can actually be had for free from 10mm owners who use the casing so much that they develope cracks at the mouth of the casing and can simply be trimmed down to 40 cal. specs,,, both rounds use bullets .401" in dia.). Hope I've helped you some... Good luck my friend
In Liberty
Progunner...
Surplus (practice) ammo is cheap especially in bulk off the web. Hollowpoints are available, and safety slugs are available also.
Or simply recently purchaced weapons?
I have handled few pistols manufactured before 1960 (other than some .45 1911A1). I know that there were all kinds of things manufactured as and for pistols early in this century, including things that'll break your hands, but most of the main production .38 pistols that I'm aware of, manufactured since 1970, are simply modified .357s. Same frame and everything; the main differences are in whether it'll receive the .357 round, and the marketing.
My 12g is eight shots and I can shoot all eight in less
than fifteen seconds. That's 256 32 caliber bullets in the
air in the blink of an eye. I've never had to shoot it in
anger, imagine that!
I usually keep mine loaded up and use a slug every third
shell just in case.
SIMPLE! This should be the law of the United States period. Wake up LIBERAL GUN GRABBERS, oh, I forgot, don't confuse you about the FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good idea, I think I'll do that also, thanks.
I've been dealing with Brigade for MANY years. They're good to go.
That's funny!
You can shoot .38's in a .357 mag,but you cannot shoot .357's in a .38
While this is true, there are other considerations, like frame size or weight that might lead one to choose a .38 spl revolver over a .357 mag.
I don't own a .357, but apparently one option which produces less recoil is to buy a full-size .357 and fire .38 Special ammo. The weight of the gun should result in less kick. And if you own a .357, you may still decide in the future to use the .357 ammunition after all.
On this page can be found one woman's point of view on guns for self-defense.
FOBaphobe,
Thanks for putting up that link. I tried sometime ago to find it but maybe it wasn't on line yet. Now I have it. I'm sure it's a matter of time before I get one in my shop to repair.
Again,,, thank you kindly,,,
In Liberty,,,
Progunner...
Is 9x18 the same as .380 Auto? I believe you already answered a 9x18 question.
I would be very interested in your opinion of the Walther PPK/S .380.
I have only fired maybe 400 rounds thru it so far. Initially I had significant problems -- but now that perhaps I am lubricating it better -- what is happening is when I show up at the range, I get occasional jams for the first couple dozen rounds or so, then almost no trouble after that. (I do live in a cold climate, but don't know if that is a factor.)
What happens is after I fire a round, sometimes the safety turns itself on, and the hammer is forward. Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Is 9x18 the same as .380 Auto?
No.
| ARTICLE TITLE: | Did Mandatory Firearm Ownership in Kennesaw Really Prevent Burglaries? |
| AUTHOR: | McDowall, David; Wiersema, Brian; Loftin, Colin |
| PUBLICATION: | Sociology & Social Research | v74n1 | p48-51 | Oct 1989 |
| NOTES: | References | Graph | Table | Article type: Feature | Length of article: Long (31+ col inches) | ISSN: 0038-0393 |
ABSTRACT: Kennesaw GA passed a mandatory firearm ownership ordinance of all residents in the hopes that it would discourage burglars. Seven years later, results show that the law did not have the desired effect. | |
| SUBJECT(S): | Theft | Firearm laws & regulations | Social research | Kennesaw Georgia |
Can anyone shed some light on this article?
I've come across it before when doing some research on this subject, but have yet to see the article in its entirety in order to verify the authors' results. If someone has or can get a copy, would they mind throwing an analysis up on the board in order to debunk or support the conclusions?
[
Reply |
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Thanks ... now that I take the time to check more closely, I see that the .380 is a 9x17.
I'd start with a bolt-action, single-shot .22. That'll help you get the basics in order before moving on to the heavy stuff. For larger calibers, you might want to consider a 30.06 or .243. A .12 gauge pump shotgun is an excellent multi-use weapon (home defense and hunting). For handguns, I prefer the .45. It's got more recoil and holds fewer rounds than a 9 mm but, man, will it put a target down.
Ever seen a 45 cal. 190gr.HP bullet after it's been dug out of a human body? I have, plenty of expansion there at approx. 800 fps!
No I haven't,but I have dug them out of earth/sand burms,and they didn't have good controled exspansion. But they were all ball ammo,and perhaps if your gun will digest hollowpoints this will improve expansion. My wifes 9mm feeds hollowpoints just fine,but i've heard/read a lot of stories about some auto-loaders that just won't feed them,without working the feed ramp.
The really good thing about .45's though are the fact that they are subsonic,and can be silenced properly.
In my opinion the most important thing is to have a gun that you are confortable with,and try to stay proficient
While this is true, there are other considerations, like frame size or weight that might lead one to choose a .38 spl revolver over a .357 mag.
You are correct,but like I told Huck " your going to get a hundred different answers",and you are one of the posters that are proving me right".
I kept my post short and sweet just for this reason.
And a lite frame to me is chaning to my Security Six from my Redhawk.
But they were all ball ammo,and perhaps if your gun will digest hollowpoints this will improve expansion.
Ball ammo deforms, it doesn't expand. In some cases, it doesn't deform much at all. I would be surprised if even a .357 at 1200 fps would actually cause ball ammo to expand.
A good starter handgun is a 38 special. They're inexpensive, around $200, and there are plenty of different rounds available. A 2" barrel is very concealable and a revolver is very safe and not as likely to jam as a pistol.
For home protection get yourself a short barrel shotgun (18 1/2"), 12 ga or 20 ga.
Just remember, one gun is good but a bunch of guns are better. {;o)
Ball ammo deforms, it doesn't expand. In some cases, it doesn't deform much at all. I would be surprised if even a .357 at 1200 fps would actually cause ball ammo to expand.
Your right,That's why I mentioned the hollwpoints.My wifes 9mm won't even expand ball ammo,however my .357 at over 1200 fps always expands nicely.Rifle bullets should travel at over 1700 fps account of thicker jackets.I didn't just make this up on my own,this is information that I have obtained from loading manuals,and years of reading Guns and Ammo.
I don't own a .45,but I do think that it will be my next gun,and I will build most of it myself,from parts purchased from Brownell's probably.
When I first replied to this thread,my main concern was that Huck didn't go out and by a .22,I was merely trying to steer him towards a centerfire that would suit him.
I mentioned that he would get a hundred different answers as to what he should buy,and if this thread keeps going like I think it will,than I'll be proved right.
When I first replied,I tried to keep it short and sweet,just like I mentioned earlier.I figured that everyone would tell him what they thought that he should buy,and they will.
He has to decide what gun he wants.It's a purchase that he will have to live with,and I'm not trying to talk him into buying anything.
If I was only allowed to keep one pistol,I would keep my Security Six in .357 mag.It's lite enough for just about anyone to handel.I can load down to .38 special if I need to,(And although I haven't seen it in several years,and it's had to have changed by now),The FBI's Relative Incapatation Index showed the .357 mag with a 125 grain jacket hollowpoint 9th on the list.
That was behind eight .44 mag loads,and one .41 mag load.
I would like to own a rifle and a pistol.
Hundreds will try to talk you out of this smart decision that you have taken in order to protect yourself and your loved ones.... but none of them will ever be there when and if you need that protection.
That was behind eight .44 mag loads,and one .41 mag load.
Damn I can't type,and I can't spell,and I can't even count anymore.
But at least I still know how to have fun,I think!
Should have been Seven .44 mag loads
We should've mentioned to get a Shooter's Bible ($20) and go to a few gun shows to get to see what is in the market. Find a FRIENDLY gun shop, one that will talk at your level without being condescending or overpowering. Building a realtionship with a gun dealer can be as important as knowing your mechanic. A good one will not try to push an unsuitable firearm on you just to make a sale.
Also, find a range that rents guns. If you have a buddy that shoots and will keep your priorities ahead of his, so much the better. That way you can try several styles without making a purchase. It also lets someone else do the dirty work!
Slowry,
I noticed that someone already said no. That poster is correct. Though there is little difference between the two size wise, the major deviation lies in the receipes regarding type of powder used and the throw charge. Quick explaination: Powders burn anywhere from fast to slow. Faster burning powders are usually characteristic for either shorter barrels or lighter bullets. Slower burners are characteristic for the opposite being heavier bullets (with stronger crimps to hold the bullet "in seat" due to heavier recoils) and longer barrels. In short,,, the longer the powder burns, the longer the "push" of the bullet out of the barrel. This will maintain straighter trajectories and higher velocity rates. If you wanted to maintain say 1000 fps (feet per second) from a particular gun using different (burn rate) powders, you would use less of a slower burning powder than it's faster burning cousin. If you EVER get into reloading,,, ALWAYS refer to a "Reloading Manual" There are MANY available. There are other variables but these are the basic with-out giving you a crash course in bulletsmithing,,, a study all in itself.
Aahhh yes, the Walther,,, excellent piece. Right up there with the Colt Mustang or Government. Be patient with the youngster, guns DO require breaking in. Many guns come off of an assembly line as opposed to a custom shop. This is the MAIN reason that Colt Python buyers have to wait up to nine months for delivery. Cold weather DOES affect first fired shots but subsequent ones will definetly heat up the machine. Just to give you an example to ponder over, many hunters that venture off up to Canada actually "dry" their firing pins and holes to prevent such the problem. They know that they will only be firing few shots so there won't be any wear.
The engagement of the safety could result from a factory (hate to say it) poor fit, to a burr or machining mark in the sear system. Gun designs for the factor of safety necessatated "more parts" to become subject to fail. But our (not to veer off the track here) government says that guns can incorperate more safe design,,, shit,,, if they get any safer I'll have to go to a modern day gunsmithing school (and at the young age of 54, I thought I could qualify to be a teacher). If the gun is new and the problem with the safety persists, take it back to the dealer because it shouldn't. Don't get me wrong though, I built a Caspian frame and slide up to a race gun for one of my friends but built it so tight that it required over 2000 rounds to really get "smooth as velvet". Somehow please keep me posted as I wish the best for ya. Many of my friends have been on my tush to author a website for on-line Q & A's,,, maybe I will. If I do I'm sure Jim wouldn't mind if I mentioned it on FR.
Hope I was of some humble assistance. Good luck.
In Liberty,,,
Progunner...
Cro,
Just for Ya Ya's, allow me to throw a receipe for reloading cartridges in 357 mag at ya. 158 - 162 gr. Lead, semi-wad cutter bevel base bullets with a throw charge of 15grs of Winchester 296. I've won alot of "Bowling Pin Revolver Only Matches" with that combo. Mind you though,,, I cast my own bullets with a 4-cavity SAECO die and STRICTLY use "NRA formula" half and half (bee's wax and Alox) in my sizer/lubricator. Hell,,, throw me a 6-pak and I'll send ya a hundred to try.
In Liberty,,,
Progunner...
I am a Glock 23 owner, and agree with you. I'ts a great gun but not suitable for beginners. My next purchase is going to be something in .460 Roland.
Any comments from someone who has one would be welcome.
NRA Patron, GOA lifer.
Bump
I would suggest a handgun for home defense. Long guns are too unwieldy in small rooms and narrow hallways. You can buy handgun rounds that will expand inside a bad guy instead of going through him into another room [they're called Glazer Safety Slugs]. Get a .22 pistol and rifle for cheap practice shooting sessions, but train with your defense gun some too. I know that 9mm guns are the trend, but the simplicity of the revolver makes it better for the beginner. Get a .357 revolver. The best brands are: Ruger, Dan Wesson, Smith and Wesson and Colt [but I hear Colt is going to cave to the antigunners and quit selling pistols to private citizens]. I would suggest a 4 inch barrel on the revolver.
On the face of it: if they had but one burglary in the place then the law did not prevent burglaries. (Why burglaries and no other sorts of crime too is a question.) But "sociologists" does sound impressive--does it not (?) It would sure be informative to see the study and, especially, to know who have paid for it (and why). I do not have that info (it is not my specialty--please excuse that).
The sociologists, ahem..
Boomerang
When I first replied to this thread,my main concern was that Huck didn't go out and by a .22,I was merely trying to steer him towards a centerfire that would suit him.
A fellow here at work decided he need a gun upon moving to Houston. At first he wanted a handgun, so I loaned him the "Texas Gun Owner's Guide" and the "Texas Concealed Handgun Manual" to read. He came back the next day wanting nothing to do with handguns because of the legal difficulties.
I advised him to get a shotgun, but no, he didn't want to kill anyone, just scare them off. I told him that was a BAD IDEA and tried to explain why, but he wouldn't hear it. He went out and bought a .22 rifle.
I hope he keeps it unloaded, that way if he ever needs it he can use it as a club.
,I would keep my Security Six in .357 mag.
Beautiful revolver. An example of the .38 Special/.357 effect I was speaking of. There is a .38 special version that is essentially identical, but is not capable of loading .357 rounds into the cylinder.
I bought my .357 many moons ago when I traveled a lot with my very young family. Going to rest stops in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere, I'd carry the .357 magnum with it's 6" barrel hoping that, if I ever needed to pull it, that there would be no mistake about what I had in my hand, unlike the kel-tec .32 pistol. It's strictly a target gun now, using .38 special. It's what I teach my kids with.
Love semi-wadcutters.I have a 4-cavity Lyman mould that a friend gave a while back.
Haven't had a chance to use it yet.
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