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WASHINGTON (AP) - An effort to repeal the federal law requiring low-flow toilets could be going down the drain.
A House panel rejected a bill Wednesday that would have eliminated 1992 federal water conservation regulations for toilets, urinals, shower heads and faucets.
Current standards require toilets to use 1.6 gallons of water per flush instead of the 3.5 gallons that was the previous norm. Supporters say the rules save some 600 million gallons of water a year and avoid a 50-state patchwork of commode regulations.
"I would suggest that there is one thing more asinine than federal regulation of plumbing supplies, and that's 50 different state standards," said Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass. "Such an outcome could have a severe constipating effect on interstate commerce."
Critics of the federal standards contend low-powered potties often take two or three flushes to clear all the waste, eliminating their conservation benefits. They say consumers should get a choice.
"The American people are being forced to use toilets and showers that simply don't work," said Rep. Charles Norwood, R-Ga. "Privacy and freedom are the only things that are being flushed away."
A House Commerce subcommittee voted 13-12 Wednesday to keep the low-flow toilet regulations. Joining 11 Democrats were two Republican lawmakers from fast-growing states with limited fresh water: Reps. Heather Wilson of New Mexico and Michael Bilirakis of Florida.
Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, the subcommittee's chairman and a co-sponsor of the bill, said he and other lawmakers have gotten complaints from numerous people upset with their low-flow toilets - and angry that the government invades their bathrooms. Plumbers told the panel last year that a black market has sprung up for high-capacity toilets smuggled from Canada or Mexico.
Yet Barton has no plans to try to resurrect the bill, sponsored by Rep. Joe Knollenberg, R-Mich., who did not return a call about whether he would try again.
"I agree with Mr. Knollenberg when he said, 'Get the federal government out of the bathroom.' We never should have been there in the first place," Barton said.
Plumbing manufacturers acknowledge complaints about earlier versions of low-flow toilets but say newer models flush better. Most municipalities support the current regulations, saying powerful new bathroom fixtures could overload aging water systems.
"We should be conserving more water, not less," said Rep. Frank Pallone Jr., D-N.J., whose district includes the headquarters of toilet-maker American Standard.
AP-ES-04-12-00 1553EDT
© Copyright 2000 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be
published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Brought to you by the Tampa Bay Online Network
Crap.
"Joining 11 Democrats were two Republican lawmakers from fast-growing states with limited fresh water: Reps. Heather Wilson of New Mexico and Michael Bilirakis of Florida."
This is exactly why many of us are fed up with the Republican Party.
Two-holers in the back yard save a lot more water. The stinch couldn't be any worse than this logic!
I've got two of the g@#$%&*!@!damn things I'm about ready to crate up and ship to the moronic congressional water use Nazis.
FULL!
It takes a minimum of 3 flushes most of the time, often accompanied by vigorous use of a plunger.
Supporters say the rules save some 600 million gallons of water a year and avoid a 50-state patchwork of commode regulations
Can any of these idiots show where that "saved" water is now? Hell no, because it all ended back up in the natural drainage/condensation cycle, gone regardless of how you look at it. And where the hell does the Constitution give the Federal gubmint the authority to regulate toilet capacity or any other water use, anyway?
Why worry about "a 50-state patchwork of commode regulations"?
Why HAVE commode regulations?
Damn right. Some mornings I need one with a 6 gallon per flush capacity and a turbocharger! (Well, my wife's always telling me I'm full of s**t!)
Oh s**t!!! Guess we have an inkling now of why they wanted to know aobut our toilets on the long-form census!!!
Speaking of the census...
"The American people are being forced to use toilets and showers that simply don't work," said Rep. Charles Norwood, R-Ga. "Privacy and freedom are the only things that are being flushed away."
. . . but say newer models flush better
B.S.
"The American people are being forced to use toilets and showers that simply don't work," said Rep. Charles Norwood, R-Ga. "Privacy and freedom are the only things that are being flushed away."
"I agree with Mr. Knollenberg when he said, 'Get the federal government out of the bathroom.' We never should have been there in the first place," Barton said.
My personal favorites of the article.
This is our pet peeve...my hubby, PennsylvaniaDad, has been threatening to drive across the border to Canada and bring a couple of real toidies home. I do not under stand how flushing 3 times (18 gallons) to do the job that 10 gallons used to do SAVES water! And, also why a federal reg. on this? I mean some places (like PA!!!) have no water problems...STATES RIGHTS ON COMMODES!!! (Rant over).
. . . but say newer models flush better
My theory: toilet makers support these dumb rules because every sale really means two sales: one today, and one later once the government [eventually] repeals these rules and people buy new toilets to replace the feeble ones.
Just flush the john two or three times and it will get the solids to the sewer or the septic tank. It takes a little more time and a little less freedom, but the taking of freedom is what it's all about isn't it? Resist the Toilet Nazis! First it's the toilets then it's your........
Let's see...over 80% of Repubs vote to eliminate the 1.6 gallon 3-flushers, and 100% of Democrats vote to keep them...and you're pissed at Republicans? You're ready to flush the GOP? I think you're missing the real turd here.
Always blaming the Republicans. What about the 11 dumb@@@@ Dems that voted against it also. You must be one of them
"This is exactly why many of us are fed up with the Republican Party. "
I agree. This Republican majority might just be one of the most gutless Congressional majorities this nation has ever seen. They couldn't defund PBS, they couldn't defund the National Endowment for the Arts, and they can't even do something as small as getting rid of this stupid toilet law. What a truly pathetic bunch- well, either pathetic or crooked.
For those that truly believe having a Republican President with a Republican congress would make a difference, this article should be proof enough that that would not be the case. There is simply no excuse for not repealing this law, as I believe a majority of Americans would support its repeal. The Stupid Party lives on.
My point is that as the majority party they can't stand together to accomplish anything. We've seen this over and over with this administration. Clinton runs the country as if we don't have three branches of the government, and the Republicans let him.
I'm not flushing the GOP, I'm still voting a straight Republican ticket (even in a state with a pro-choice Republican governor). However, I trash their solicitaion for money.
Major Matt,
I loved your Moon Clawler. Anyway you are too right about the GOP what in the world is wrong with those guys. I guess after being the majority for the last fours convinced them that it is a lot easier being the minority and really want to go back. What a bunch of toads.
I don't blame the dems because they are acting exactly like they are programmed to act. I have higher expectations for the Republicans.
Dittos on your first paragraph.
I pray you're wrong on the second.
"Plumbing manufacturers acknowledge complaints about earlier versions of low-flow toilets but say newer models flush better."
No they don't! And, I speak from experience.
"my hubby, PennsylvaniaDad, has been threatening to drive across the border to Canada and bring a couple of real toidies home."
My hubby has already done this. I've told him if we ever move we have to take these toilets with us.
Send your overflow to your nearest Congressman.
Best line of the night.
ROFL......I'm glad I didn't answer.........will they come for my toilets now?
Thank you very much! :)
Okay.....I have a really, really stupid question about this: I keep hearing about this all the time, but is there a LAW that you have to have these toilets?
I already pay a RAIN TAX and am furious about that. If I have to get one of these, I may move out of the city!
One of my favorite quotes whenever I'm in my 'shake them out of their complacency' mode is this from Lord Byron:
"To allow politics to become a cesspool, and then to avoid it because it is a cesspool, is a double crime." -Byron
Maybe the poet was a prophet, huh?
The way I have been told it works is the government regulates the EPA standards of toilets. Therefore, when Gore (it had to be him, no one else is that stupid) puts this "act" or "law" into place, toilet manufacturers were forced to comply or be fined or denied patents on their designs, or whatever. It is not against the law for you to own a real toilet. To get one, you must either take the one you already had (if you're lucky enough) or buy one black market. When we bought our house last June, we were stupid and left our old toilet behind. There were many builders happy to offer us a real toilet, or at least tell us where we could get one. They were running around $2,000 then. Now with the housing boom here, I don't think I could get one if I wanted to pay double that.
I'm not an expert, so maybe a legal expert could offer a better answer if I am incorrect.
No they don't! And, I speak from experience.
You and me both! When I bought a new house 3 years ago, I never thought I would have plumbing trouble right off the bat, but I hadn't reckoned on this out of control gang of meddling idiots who had made it illegal to have a crapper that actually works. I am so flippin POed at the idiots who passed this law that I could cheerfully drown the @#@#@#@s in one of my ####-filled toilets if I could get my hands around their slimy, geeky, pencil-necks. I haven't been this mad at those pea-brained morons since 1996 when they made it impossible to repair my freon-based car A/C and forced me to replace it with one that cost twice as much and doesn't cool as well as the old one did. Saving the ozone layer my ###, they make us have 1000's of $ worth of smog equipment on our cars to get rid of the stinkin stuff down here, then they claim there's a shortage of it up above. I aint buying it!
Sorry, I'm digressing. That's another sore spot with me.
The 1st month I lived here, I had to replace the toilet in the main bath with a more expensive model, and within another 2-3 months I had to replace the other one. Of course, the replacements don't work much better than the originals, because they are made the SAME STUPID, DUMB-###, P.C. WAY. I'm now out about a thousand bucks, and I still can't flush the #@#@ toilets without 2 or 3 tries! We don't need to save water around here anyway, we're knee-deep in #@%&^* water. (a little exaggeration there to make a point)
Just sitting here thinking about this IS MAKING ME MADDER AND MADDER!!! What gives these morons the right to screw up my crappers anyway?? Is this one of their "enumerated powers"? NO! Where does the Constitution say they can do this kind of stuff? NOWHERE, THAT'S WHERE!! WHATEVER BECAME OF STATE'S RIGHTS ANYWAY?? If our state legislators did something like this we would hang them from the nearest lamp posts.
Enough is enough. It's way past time to dump these *#$%*^@ imbeciles, and keep on replacing them until we find a bunch which realizes that this isn't Russia or China.
I'm right there with ya buddy!
Goodnight bump.
If gore gets in, you'll be peeing in a doggie bag!!!
a black market has sprung up for high-capacity toilets
LOL! I would love to get my hands on a couple of these black-market toilets and then drive to D.C. to dispose of my high-clog toilets on the Capitol Building lawn.
I bet if they installed 1.6 gallon toilets in the Congress, they would change their minds real quick.
If gore gets in, you'll be peeing in a doggie bag!!!
Then he had better assign a full-time snoop to watch me, cause I live waaay out in the boonies with no close neighbors, and I pee when ever and where ever I feel like it.
Better yet... on the Capitol steps, not the lawn.
Guess we have an inkling now of why they wanted to know about our toilets on the long-form census!!!
LOL!
I'm willing to bet on the 2010 census they also ask us how many times a day we flush!
Joining 11 Democrats were two Republican lawmakers
Write to the RNC explaining that, because of low-flow toilets, you have to flush three or four times to dispose of their fund-raising letters.
A House Commerce subcommittee voted 13-12 Wednesday to keep the low-flow toilet regulations.
Since when do the turds have a say so on how they're flushed?
I have to flush the thing three times usually. Let's see, old toilet, one flush, 3.5 gallons. New low flow type, 1.6 x 3 = 4.8 gallons. Which toilet uses less water, Johnny? Oh well.
They must be using that "New Age" Math don'cha know.
There is a razor thin majority, you can't get things past Clinton unless you have 2/3rds to over-ride the vetos.
I love the title!!!
Yeah, you can reconcile anything.
"We should be conserving more water, not less," said Rep. Frank Pallone Jr., D-N.J., whose district includes the headquarters of toilet-maker American Standard.
If you want to blame someone, blame the toilet makers. They are the ones standing in the way of any change in the law.
If they law changed, makers would have to build for two sets of standards. That's twice the tooling cost, twice the inventory costs, and an increase in almost every other type of cost assocaited with their business, with no increase in sales.
If an office building needs 100 toilets. They'll buy 100 low-flush, 100 regular-flush, or a combination of the two that adds up to 100. The point is, adding more flush types won't increase the toilet makers sales by a single unit. They make more money when they can offer only one style, and they are using the law to do that.
And please, don't tell me about the great windfall to toilet makers of people ripping out their low-flush toilets to replace them with regular ones. These companies sell millions of toilets each year. The number of people replacing their toilets would be a footnote in small print on their sales charts.
Current standards require toilets to use 1.6 gallons of water per flush instead of the 3.5 gallons that was the previous norm. Supporters say the rules save some 600 million gallons of water a year and avoid a 50-state patchwork of commode regulations.
This is stupid. Each state should set its own standards. I live in Michigan. We will be the last state in the nation that runs out of water, and we wont in my lifetime.
Maybe New Mexico needs to conserve water, let them punish their citizens however they want, if they people stand for it then they deserve it.
Look at post 45 and you'll know why we have a national standard. The toilet makers push for a single national standard because it cost them less to build for a single standard then to build for multiple standards.
"There is a razor thin majority, you can't get things past Clinton unless you have 2/3rds to over-ride the vetos."
Then let Clinton veto it! Why do some republicans keep doing his dirty work for him?
That's my gripe.
I still have one of those dangerous and illegal high capacity assault toilets in my shop. Not going to give it up, either. Reflect on this: the government is not only telling us how to poop, it's doing a bad job of it. Let's see...
"There is a razor thin majority, you can't get things past Clinton unless you have 2/3rds to over-ride the vetos."
Then let Clinton veto it! Why do some republicans keep doing his dirty work for him?
That's my gripe.
Mine too. They feel the same way about their votes in Congress like I feel about my vote as a citizen. It just doesn't count. If they already know the outcome, who voted?
I watched a congressional hearing on this subject last year on C-SPAN. I could hardly believe what I was witnessing. The only good part of it all was at the beginning, when a committee member (Burr of NC?) read his opening statements, which were printed on a roll of toilet paper. (He unrolled it as he read.) I was ROTFLMBO over that one.
LOL :) I can't believe I missed that one!!! I probably should send the sub-committee my John Wayne roll of TP!!! The warning label says: "IT'S ROUGH! -- IT'S TOUGH! AND IT DOESN'T TAKE CRAP OFF ANYONE!"
Yes, yes...and the time that you waste just standing there waiting to re-flush before you leave the bathroom!
The clowns can't even agree on the capacity of a toilet, for chrisakes.
I'd bet even Rome didn't get this assinine prior to the fall.
FYI:
You can buy the 3.5 gallon flush bowls in Michigan or you can buy a new compressed air assisted 1.5 gallon type that I have installed in my house after throwing the plunger through a closed window. They work very well, plunger has remained outside the window. Available at home depot for about 200 bucks, they fit in the same rough in as you're existing toilet. American Standard makes them.
It's kind of degrading when you think about it....government regulating bathroom habits. I remember when they just told you to put a brick in the tank. :^)
And of course Al "tree humper" Gore will waste ever drop of water that was saved by every low-flow toilet all year long throughout the country simply to get a photo-op of himself in a canoe.
That's what riles me worse than anything else about all this!
And of course Al "tree humper" Gore will waste ever drop of water that was saved by every low-flow toilet all year long throughout the country simply to get a photo-op of himself in a canoe.
Thanks for the reminder!
Thanks for the tip, neighbor!
To think: my solution was to sell the house. {g}
I've used one of those "jet-assist" jobbers; & I gotta admit...the noise?
Scared the (rest of the) sh*t outa me the first flush. Yea. Sure did.
Funny, but cr** volume, stopping up tanks with sewage was a subject that I thought for SURE the Members of Congress could get right. (sigh) Let me down again, they did....
No HH...they didn't "let you down, again."
You were simply flushed; along with the rest of us.
I hate Democrats. I hate Republicans. Any questions?
We've got one of those JATO toilets upstairs. They certainly do work well, but the sound is similar to the Space Shuttle taking off. When my mother visited us over the holidays, I warned her, right after showing her to her bedroom, not to be sitting in the drivers seat when she flushed it.
For those not informed about the JATO (Jet Assisted Take Off) toilets - inside what looks like a standard porcelain tank is a SECOND tank. Inside this tank (sealed) is a rubber bladder. Water from the line fills this tank, forcing the bladder upward and compressing the air it impounds. When the flush valve is released, all this compressed air forces the water into the bowl in a mighty rush - and with an explosive sound. I can imagine its effect on small children...
Michael
My youngest son is 5 and is still terrified of the sound of a flushing toilet. I am constantly going in the bathroom after him to flush because he will not.
I must admit to being confused though, because how is water "wasted", exactly? I mean, if you flush water down the toilet, does it somehow evaporate, never to return? Or, are the idiots in D.C. concerned about the cost of treating all of the extra water they claim high-flow toilets use? I live in Minnesota and we, like Michigan will be one of the last states to run out of water. If some states are jealous over my state's fresh water availibility in regards to toilets, what's next? I won't be able to swim in my local lake because they don't have any in New Mexico? Well, we don't have mountains here, so I want people in New Mexico to stop climbing and photographing, or otherwise benefitting from a natural resource my state doesn't possess. How asinine can some of these idiots be? Any state's natural resources are reasons to move to a state. The Federal government has no business punishing a state for the resources it has, with regulations like low-flow toilets. New Mexico and Florida can buy some of my state's fresh water, just like I have to buy things from their states I can't get from mine.
Everyone with me - "State's Rights! Individual Liberty! Downsize The Feds!"
Good Luck to All!
re#63; My first *experience* with one of these, "JATO" devices was while staying at Bellagio's, Las Vegas.
Following the attention-getting, bowl-clearing experience?
My bride (of 26 years) was unimpressed upon entering the palacial-sized salle de bains, & finding I had the device uncovered & thoroghly examined. As a former engineer; I was compelled to see this contraption for myself. {g}
You're correct: it's merely a sealed tank of compressed air! Facinating. {~in as much as a sh*tter can be *facinating*, anyway.}
I can't help thinking: "Pascal never imagined this."
Well, we don't have mountains here, so I want people in New Mexico to stop climbing and photographing, or otherwise benefitting from a natural resource my state doesn't possess.
Brilliant. Gonna use this one next argument I find myself in with one of these "resource-savers," making sure I give you full credit, of course.
As a former engineer; I was compelled to see this contraption for myself. {g}
Aw, you engineer's is all alike -- I'll just be the bride was so pleased, having to watch you inspect the john, all the while dying to be downstairs losing your money! (g-yourself)
Men in dark suits will come to my house later tonight and rip out our toilets after I post this...
I am a proud owner of an old 3.5 gallon crapper. I absolutely hate taking a dump anywhere outside my house because of those 1.6 gallon toilets.
More to the point, I remember reading somewhere that the federal toilet standards for flushing power were something like the toilet had to be able to flush a racquetball. I'm probably wrong on this, but this is only a vague memory. Anyone else got some info to add on this?
"More to the point, I remember reading somewhere that the federal toilet standards for flushing power were something like the toilet had to be able to flush a racquetball."
Hmmmm. Never heard that one; but I've an idea how they picked a racquette ball.
That'd be the maximum diameter of any solid passing through the tight a$$ of your average Liberal.
Just a hypothesis.
What gives these morons the right to screw up my crappers anyway?? Is this one of their "enumerated powers"? NO! Where does the Constitution say they can do this kind of stuff?
"I would suggest that there is one thing more asinine than federal regulation of plumbing supplies, and that's 50 different state standards," said Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass. "Such an outcome could have a severe constipating effect on interstate commerce."
Why, the Interstate Commerce Clause of course.
Then let Clinton veto it! Why do some republicans keep doing his dirty work for him?
I agree, they should at least use these votes as an oportunity to define themselves for the voters. I can only assume these cowards are afraid of being defined, it might interfere with their ability to make deals.
"We should be conserving more water, not less," said Rep. Frank Pallone Jr., D-N.J., whose district includes the headquarters of toilet-maker American Standard.
Let's see... outlaw the old toilets and everybody has to buy new ones. Why, American Standard would not have helped pust this legislation through, would they? I am sure they wouldn't, any more than DuPont would have Freon outlawed once their patent ran out so they could sell more expensive patented substitutes.
"It's kind of degrading when you think about it....government regulating bathroom habits. I remember when they just told you to put a brick in the tank."
You beat me! I remember my Grandma telling me this, that's what they did during the Great Depression. Or, you could just adjust the float.
Wait till we get the regulations on toilet paper use. Four squares per dump max.
Wait till we get the regulations on toilet paper use. Four squares per dump max.
When are we going to learn to stop giving them ideas? haha. Goodnight bump.
Four squares per dump max
I think I'll start hoarding. I see big profits.
Someone please help me!
Where in the constitution is the Federal Government specifically granted the right to be in charge of what people put in their bathrooms? See Amendment 10.
I realize the Federal Government generates more than its fair share of what one would put in a toilet, but that still does not give them the right to control toilets.
This government is out of control.
I think we should use our Congressmen as a plunger.
I bought a newly built house about 18 months ago. The first thing I noticed was how bad the water pressure was and that the commodes would not flush for sh*t. I went around to all of the faucets and showers and pulled out the so-called conservation do-hickey and threw them in the garbage. I then went outside and yanked them out of the faucets as well. There wasn't a lot I could do about the toilets, but I can flush them 2 or 3 times just out of spite.
I was talking to someone later who told me that it was against the law to do what I did. I said to him "So, where are the faucet police? and what are they going to do?"
So sue me.... or maybe that should be sewer me....
I think we should use our Congressmen as a plunger.
Mental image pretty funny. I think they would be right at home.
My theory: toilet makers support these dumb rules because every sale really means two sales: one today, and one later once the government [eventually] repeals these rules and people buy new toilets to replace the feeble ones.
It's also more efficient for them to make fewer models.
Flush twice.
Time for a Boston toilet party.
I have to flush the thing three times usually. Let's see, old toilet, one flush, 3.5 gallons. New low flow type, 1.6 x 3 = 4.8 gallons. Which toilet uses less water, Johnny? Oh well.
most people I know flush 1 time most of the time, sometimes 2, and once in a while three. the only time you are not saving water is on three flushes. i think that overall the new toilets save water.
Watch out for the new BATF -
BATF
Bureau of Assinine Toilet Fixtures
Seriously, I am sure it has been made illegal to have contraband toilets in your home. You probably would have to prove that you didn't have them before "the ban".
The people you know must live in a very old neighborhood.
I have a couple of those low-flow toilets. They have a regular sized tank with an inner (smaller) plastic tank. I simply cut out one side of the plastic tank about half way down. This gives me plenty of water.
I guess I will be arrested by the toilet police now. {;o)
It would be real tuff. They bend too much since there is no backbone.
Fine. Make a stop in DC today to pick up your "Al Gore Award".
Bump :^)
What pray tell are we saving water from? Saving water is a dreamed up crisis, to keep your mind off the imprortant matters that just seem to elude the congress. No matter how hard they work, they just can't seem to bring back the Constitution as the law of the land. They have reached the pinnacle of self importance where toilet water, and flush numbers are an issue of such great importance that it demands the time of people you sent to congress to return this nation to its former greatness. Does not look like this will happen any time soon.
I simply cut out one side of the plastic tank about half way down. This gives me plenty of water.
My husband (not me, of course) did this very same thing last weekend. :)
It's also more efficient for them to make fewer models.
It might be, if they didn't make larger ones for export only. I will admit, though, I'm surprised I've not seen any new fixtures in this country use the simple lo-tech pressure-boosting method that older toilets used: raise the tank about 5-6'. The greater the pressure, the better the flush for any given amount of water.
Also, I read that in some other country the washbasin drain feeds the toilet tank. I wonder if it would be legal to design a toilet which used 1.6 gallons of "dedicated" water plus whatever water was used in the washbasin since the last flush (up to some auxilliary tank capacity limit of, say, 10 gallons >:*3. Think that'd fly?
Hey, no, really: I'm perfectly okay with the low-flow toilets. These things use 1.6 gal's per flush, but don't work. It takes three flushes. So thats 4.8 gallons total, versus 3.5 with the old ones.
And any time I can waste natural resources because a Democrat has legislated no choice, I feel a sense of great peace and ease.
All those idiots who go on about how free we are in America versus other nations ought to take a look at laws like this that so tightly control our lives.
Even Hitler didn't tell the Germans how to flush their toilets.
NO NO NO! You are supposed to waste MORE water than the originals. Xcrew the DemonCraps! Backlash!
(true story) I put in a new bathroom a year ago. Just before that, I had business in Ontario, so I drove there from New England. I told my friends that I was going to pick up a 3.5 gallon toilet before I came home. They asked if there was going to be an duty on it when I crossed back to the United States.
I said, "No, I'm going to buy a clean one".
Hahahaha heheheheh hohohoho
I bet that'll get a response. Let's just sent 10,000 of those letters!
Flush Bump!
g
It about says it all about COngress that they're more concerned about the sh** in our houses than in the White House!
Here's more:
Gore Announces Tougher Standards for Water Heaters
will it ever end?
1. You can't destroy water. Even sewer water will find it's way into the evaporation/precipitation cycle - clean as any other water. If there are areas that need to conserve because they chose to live in a desert, let them flush 3 times.
2. Are these the same Democrats that scream about keeping the government out of the bedroom everytime the abortion debate gets going? Is there some inconsistency here? Let us kill our unborn children in private, but come on into the bathroom and save us from effective flushing? (To the charge that some conservatives would have the gov't out of the bathroom, but in the bedroom, I submit the idea that "fetal matter" is of greater value than fecal matter.)
3. If we have allowed the federal government to dictate how much water we can use to flush our bodily wastes away, how can we be worried about what will come next? I can't think of anything more personal to the individual, or less important to the running of the nation. This sounds like something from the bottom end of the slippery slope.
So the GOP doesn't appear to have its sh## together... well, lets not be too hard on them. Maybe they are too busy trying to build up support for a free trade treaty with Red China,and other worthwhile causes that will make me just run to the polls and vote for them.
I don't know who you are ranting to, but I didn't blame anyone. Gmax
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