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Cable Modem & DSL Tuning Tips, Tricks & Software For FR Users.

Computers/Internet Miscellaneous Keywords: FIRETALK, CABLE MODEM, DSL, INTERNET, SPEED TIPS, USCONSERVATIVE
Source: Self
Published: 5/13/2000 Author: USConservative
Posted on 05/13/2000 19:03:01 PDT by usconservative

For all you cable modem and DSL users, here's some useful links that will help you test your cable modem or DSL speed on the net.

One word of caution: These test sites measure your speed between your computer and THAT SPECIFIC SITE. It does not tell you what your actual speed is to your cable modem or DSL provider, but is a good indication overall. In order to get the best readings, you should test from more than one site, and conduct all tests with only your web browser running. If you are a FireTalk user, you should exit FireTalk before running these tests.

Test Sites:

TOAST Net This is a simple site to test your speed to various toast.net points on the Internet. There is a text test, and a graphics test under each city location. Results to Toast.Net vary widely but it's a simple site to use. Good for beginners. Skill Level Required: Low.

Computing Central By simply clicking on the link and going to this web page, your download speed is automatically calculated and displayed on the web page. Excellent site for beginners. Skill Level Required: Low.

DSL Reports.Com A more advanced site that will run a variety of tests from a simple 56k dialup modem connection, all the way up to dedicated T1 usage. This site is a little more advanced than Toast.Net and Computing Central but a great site nonetheless. Skill Level Required: Medium

2Wire.Com This site requires a Java enabled web browser such as IE 5.0 or Netscape 4.03 or above. Click on the Bandwidth Meter under "Site Highlights" then click on check bandwidth. On some older computers (less than 400mhz) the Java applet takes longer to load, but is well worth it for the report that this site generates. Easy to use site, very consistent. Skill Level Required: Low - Medium.

Cable Modem / DSL Tips, Tricks, Tuning Guides & Software:

Navas Cable Modem/DSL Tuning Guide This site is for the not so faint of heart. Good tips on tweaking your Cable Modem or DSL connection to get more speed than you have now. A word of caution before using any of the tweaking techniques on this site: be sure to backup your registry files first! Follow all instructions on this site carefully, and you should have no problems. Skill Level Required: Medium.

SpeedGuide.Net The site focuses on system performance, with areas including Broadband Internet connections, Windows, Overclocking, all targeted towards a technically aware audience. A large section of SpeedGuide.net is dedicated to Cable Modems and DSL technology, stressing on improving TCP/IP performance over high speed/latency networks. This site contains many great links to Windows Registry hacks, and programs that will perform these functions for you automatically. It can't be stressed enough: be sure to backup your registry files before using any of these system tweaks! Skill Level Required: Medium - High.

Cable/DSL Speed Patches This is a direct link to all the automatic tools on SpeedGuide.Net that will tweak your system for you automatically. I've used & tested all of these tweaks on my system, and they work fine. Caution: what works for me on my system, may not work for you on your system. Be sure to backup your registry files first! Windows95 and Windows98 users will want to use the MTUPatch program for their version of windows. Windows95 users click HERE Windows98 users click HERE. Be sure to download and apply the patch that's right for your system. You will notice an immediate performance improvement. I also highly recommend the SpeedGuide Web Patch for faster loading of web pages in Win95/Win98. Click HERE to download it directly. This patch adjusts your default web browser to open up more threads to download web pages faster than you do currently. Skill Level Required: Medium - High.

The Microsoft VTCP Update File This file fixes a math calculation error in Microsoft's TCP/IP stack which causes packet re-transmission errors to slow web sites. This is an easy patch to apply. Follow the instructions on the Cable /DSL Speed Patches site above. It simply involves renaming a file, and replacing it with a newer version. Skill Level Required: Low - Medium.

Disclaimer: I warned you to backup your registry files first, before applying any patches above. That means don't complain to me if your system breaks and you can't fix it. If you break it, you own both pieces.

Anyone not familiar with the terms "registry", "emergency repair disk" or "backup" should not apply any of these patches until they (a) know how to backup their regstry and (b) create an emergency repair disk for their system. I cannot supply tech support for any of the web pages above. I'm providing this information because many people have asked for it both on Free Republic's FireTalk Chat Room and via my freeper mail.

Good Luck! See you all in Firetalk!


Posted by request for all Freepers.

1 Posted on 05/13/2000 19:03:01 PDT by usconservative (NONE)
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To: usconservative

Cool.

I'm getting DSL in the next month (can't wait!) and this will be of help.

Thanks

2 Posted on 05/13/2000 19:08:00 PDT by expat
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To: usconservative

I'm about to take the plunge myself. Bookmarking for future reference. Thanks

3 Posted on 05/13/2000 19:19:17 PDT by Dog Gone
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To: usconservative

I recently got Cable modem. The first week I could connect at anywhere from 256k to 10megs. However downloads were no to marginally faster than 56k dialup. I went to the speedguide site and installed the mtu patch ( I also downloaded the default patch in case things didn't work). The difference is truly amazing.
The other night I downloaded a 45meg demo in 3 min. 15 sec. Averaged 1.8Mbps
I'm Happy Happy Happy

4 Posted on 05/13/2000 19:24:36 PDT by Vinnie
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To: usconservative

In my tuning adventures for my cable modem I found that the biggest gain came from cutting down on the number of splitters in the cable. Take as many splitters out of the line as you can and make sure you have good quality cable and splitters. I does make a difference.

Those registry tweaks do work on win95/98. The biggest gain I got was from the system.ini file modification where you set a buffer size for your ethernet card. Some of the "tweak" pages say that it does not work but I got a big gain from that tweak alone.

5 Posted on 05/13/2000 19:28:34 PDT by go star go
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To: usconservative

thanks US!

6 Posted on 05/13/2000 19:29:22 PDT by Trailer Trash (7.62x39@Radiolink.net)
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To: usconservative

Thanks, bump for later. I better learn how to back up my system first.

7 Posted on 05/13/2000 19:31:02 PDT by chuck allen
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To: usconservative

I recently moved and had to give up my DSL line because the new place is too far from the telco central office. So I got cable modem instead. Not bad:

Http request: http://speedtest.mybc.com/5meg.test
Http connection opened in 10 milliseconds
Test performed in 23003 milliseconds
Total bytes downloaded: 5242880 bytes
Throughput: 1.7389036 Mbps

Beats a T-1 line :)

8 Posted on 05/13/2000 19:33:47 PDT by Nick Danger
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To: usconservative

Additional note:

Cable and DSL providers often require you to install additional modems, if you want to connect more than one computer at a time to the Internet. This is because they (technically) only lease you one incoming IP address per modem for your service.

This can get costly, especially if you are charged @$100 per modem or so. There may also be additional monthly costs.

A new product is out, and is getting rave reviews, for its ability to connect 4 (and to network up to 253) computers via a single DSL or cable modem line. The Linksys Etherfast Cable/DSL Router acts as a network "hub" with switched access to your computers, while only registering to the DSL/Cable provider as a single IP address! This means, you can run lines to other rooms, to your laptop, or even a neighbor. Kinda like a cable TV line splitter.

Best of all, it sells for only @$160-$180 at many places online. If this capability is of interest to FR readers, I encourage you to check it out at www.linksys.com. Right now, it's on the front page there, and for online comparison shopping at sites like www.ecost.com, the part number is #BEFSR41. (and, no, I don't work for them!)

9 Posted on 05/13/2000 19:37:37 PDT by research99
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To: Vinnie

Well, isn't that **special!** Another success story. I love it. Glad to be of help!

10 Posted on 05/13/2000 19:38:03 PDT by usconservative
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To: Nick Danger

Cool.

11 Posted on 05/13/2000 19:40:00 PDT by usconservative
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To: research99

A new product is out, and is getting rave reviews, for its ability to connect 4 (and to network up to 253) computers via a single DSL or cable modem line.

Anyone with an old unused computer around the house can do the same thing for near-free by putting linux on the box and sticking it between the cable/DSL modem and the rest of the computers. The trick is called IP masquerade.

Windows 2000 can also serve this purpose, so if you have a Win2K box around, you can use that.

12 Posted on 05/13/2000 19:56:57 PDT by Nick Danger
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To: research99

You can also do that by buying a cheap hub (less than $80) and installing NIC's in your computers. You must be running Win98 SE for the next part.

Windows 98SE includes Cable Modem & DSL Sharing. It takes 10 minutes to install and configure, and will let as many as 5 computers use a single Cable Modem/DSL line. Total cost for the projet is $80 for the hub, and approx. $50 per network card. You'd need the network cards anyway with the LinkSys device, so this is a little cheaper. (I am a cheapskate...)

13 Posted on 05/13/2000 19:58:37 PDT by usconservative
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To: research99

The Linksys Etherfast Cable/DSL Router acts as a network "hub" with switched access to your computers, while only registering to the DSL/Cable provider as a single IP address!

Or you can get an Apple AirPort, that is basically a wireless Ethernet. It supports Network Address Translation for sharing a single connection. This has the additional advantage of allowing you to lay in a hammock in the backyard with a laptop and surf Free Republic.

14 Posted on 05/13/2000 20:03:41 PDT by HAL9000
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To: usconservative

Thanks.

L

15 Posted on 05/13/2000 20:03:43 PDT by Lurker
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To: usconservative

INTRODUCTION from Rob Vonk, author of Easy MTU

I wrote MTUSpeed when trying to optimise the throughput of my Internet access. I became tired of opening the registry, finding the appropriate keys, editing them and then closing the registry again.

MTUSpeed was written using ideas gained from, amongst other sources, the guys at NetPro NorthWest who publish the "MaxMTU Fix for Win95" document. The document can be found at http://www.sns-access.com/%7Enetpro/maxmtu.htm. Alternative excellent sources of information are "Lynn Larrow's Place" in the US (http://www.webcom.com/~llarrow/) and Malcolm Reeves' "Win95 TCP/IP Tips and Tricks" (http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/mreeves/tips.htm) page in the UK.

I strongly suggest that you read some of these documents prior to using MTUSpeed for the first time.

Automatic PMTU (Path Maximum Transmission Unit) Discovery is discussed in Article Q158474 in Microsoft's Knowledge Base (http://www.microsoft.com/kb/default.asp is the US Site or http://www.eu.microsoft.com/kb/default.asp for the European Site).

RFC 1191 is the document that covers the use of PMTUDiscovery on IPv4 and is available at http://www.graphcomp.com/info/rfc/rfc1191.html. It is also available at http://hotline.pvtnet.cz/dokumentace/rfc/rfc1191.html.

MTU Speed is a freeware that will update your registry for you and is available at URL is http://www.rob.cybercomm.nl/ ... or From the ZifDavis people, publishers of PCMagazine. Tech stuff......"Windows 95/98 default has a MaxMTU of 1500. That means that packets of 1500 bytes are sent over the Internet. Most routers on the internet have a MaxMTU of 576. That means your 1500 byte packet is fragmented in 3 packets."

More info experimentation:

"FindMTU
People asked me if there is a way for detecting the best MaxMTU value for their connection. I can answer this with a full yes. It's very simple. Windows 95/98 installs ping.exe. Ping sends a packet to a host and times how fast it comes back. But that's not all. It can also check if the packet must be fragmented because of a low MaxMTU.

Here's how it works:

Start Ping.exe from a dos window with the following command line: ping www.hatchoo.com -f -l 1500

It sends a packet of 1500 bytes (-l 1500) to www.hatchoo.com and it checks if it gets fragmented on the route (-f). If it gets fragmented, lower the packet size and try again. Repeat this until you find the highest packet that doesn't get fragmented. That's your best MaxMTU (in theory).

But hey Rob, that's a lot of work! Can you write a program that does this for me?

Okay but I want to make a nice program, so I won't use the ping.exe wich runs in a dos box (Other ugly programs use this. Rename ping.exe to dosping.exe and try the option again)

16 Posted on 05/13/2000 20:06:33 PDT by dons (Smartaleck)
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To: HAL9000

This has the additional advantage of allowing you to lay in a hammock in the backyard with a laptop and surf Free Republic.

And I thought I had all the toys. Harrumph! Does it only work with Mac's?

17 Posted on 05/13/2000 20:07:05 PDT by usconservative
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To: dons

I feel the need to summarize the entire article in one sentence, maybe two.

In 9 out of 10 cases, setting your MaxMTU to 1500 on a Cable Modem or DSL line is going to be fine because that's what most Service Providers have set their routers to. It is very unusual (although not unheard of) to set it lower to something like 1472, which is the next most common. I have never seen anyone set to 576.

MTU Patch will work for 9 out of 10 people, probably higher than that, meaning 95 out of 100.

18 Posted on 05/13/2000 20:11:57 PDT by usconservative
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To: usconservative

"I have never seen anyone set to 576."

I should have clarified......the 576 is geared towards those using dial up modems i.e., 56k v90.

Your mileage may very.

19 Posted on 05/13/2000 20:15:46 PDT by dons
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To: dons

I was specifically talking about an ISP setting a router to 576.

But that's another conversation about TCP/IP over dialup and how it's routed (via combining packets @ the router) that we'll leave for later.

20 Posted on 05/13/2000 20:19:51 PDT by usconservative
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To: usconservative

And I thought I had all the toys. Harrumph! Does it only work with Mac's?

Since it's based on TCP/IP, it's device independent. For compatible equipment for Windows computers, check Lucent Technologies WaveLAN. You can plug a card into your laptop to communicate with the base station.

21 Posted on 05/13/2000 21:14:43 PDT by HAL9000
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To: GretchenBookmark

bump

22 Posted on 05/13/2000 21:16:00 PDT by GretchenEE
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To: HAL9000

Since it's based on TCP/IP

Correction - it should be IEEE 802.11 instead of TCP/IP

23 Posted on 05/13/2000 21:26:07 PDT by HAL9000
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To: Vinnie

WHOAAAA!!!!!!!

I just did what you did, and what a difference!!!

Prior the the patch I tested by downloading a file and I got to about 75 K/sec. After the patch it went to 140K/sec. I almost doubled my speed!

24 Posted on 05/14/2000 07:28:31 PDT by TomB
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To: usconservative

It is very unusual (although not unheard of) to set it lower to something like 1472, which is the next most common.

Actually, if you ping with a payload of 1472 on an ethernet, that plus the headers of the ping bring it to the ethernet limit of 1518.

So users should be aware that the length they specify in the ping command is not the exact value of the entire packet (the overhead adds another 46 bytes.)

25 Posted on 05/14/2000 08:55:05 PDT by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan

Bump to the top. Alot of FireTalk users are telling me that they've seen dramatic increases in their Cable Modem & DSL speeds as a result of the patches & tweaks listed on this page. Most have also reported that Firetalk even behaves better since the speed @ which their systems now work on the 'net has increased.

Bump.

26 Posted on 05/18/2000 08:01:56 PDT by usconservative
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To: usconservative

This looks like a great post to bookmark.

And, as soon as I get someone to translate it for me, I'll put it to good use!

27 Posted on 05/18/2000 08:06:00 PDT by mombonn
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To: usconservative

I hope you don't mind me bringing this thread back up. :)

I'll soon have the option of getting DSL. Currently, I have two 'puters. One is an old P60 (16MEGS of RAM) and the other is a PII-200MMX (128M) with a 56K V.90. The P60 is running Windows 3.11 and the PII-200 is on Win98.

Is there a less expensive option than LANTastic for networking these two systems together? What do I need to allow both to access the DSL connection and surf the 'net?

I've even thought of buying 64M of RAM for the P60 and putting Win98 on it to make the two systems compatible, but I doubt the slow one would be bearable running Win98. So slooooooooooooooow, I would think.

Any suggestions?

28 Posted on 07/26/2000 03:51:48 PDT by savedbygrace
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To: usconservative

bump, these tips were a great help, thanks!

29 Posted on 08/25/2000 02:20:08 PDT by Dat
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To: Dat

I'm very glad to hear that. One of these days, I have to get around to writing the security piece to post to FR....

30 Posted on 08/25/2000 05:40:47 PDT by usconservative
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To: usconservative

not available in my area but comming soon. bookmarking for future use, thank you

31 Posted on 08/25/2000 06:00:33 PDT by rh
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To: usconservative

Thank you

.

32 Posted on 08/25/2000 06:02:37 PDT by Elle Bee
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To: HAL9000, usconservative

compatible equipment for Windows computers, check Lucent Technologies WaveLAN

Yup, I got networked my Mac & PC throught hub using PC MACLAN software. Then I use a dynamic DNS server for free. You got to have that because the ISP# is changed every 4 or so hours.
This guys configure it for you and you get a free software as well. Mind you it is against the phone company policy, but I don't think I care, heh

33 Posted on 08/25/2000 06:15:05 PDT by I_Had_Enough
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To: savedbygrace

What do I need to allow both to access the DSL connection and surf the 'net?

A hub. About 40-50 bucks the cheaper one

34 Posted on 08/25/2000 06:31:49 PDT by I_Had_Enough
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To: usconservative

Bringing up an oldy goldy thread.

I just installed DSL today. Tweaked it a bit and it's testing at about 1.2Mbps. I'm 7,000 ft from the CO, and I have the standard ADSL --- 384/128.

FR rocks on this puppy. I'm some kinda jazzed. On the old 56K dialup, Opera was showing pages loading at 4 to 6 kB/s at the most. Now I'm seeing 30 to 90 kB/s. Wow.

35 Posted on 12/05/2000 22:09:32 PST by savedbygrace
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To: usconservative

BTW, I also bought an SMC Barricade DSL Router/Switch to use for its hardware firewall. Unfortunately, I didn't read the DSL moden instructions before I ordered it. Now I know that I need a crossover cable to connect the router with the modem. With a regular CAT-5 cable, it won't connect to the SW Bell server.

In the meantime, I'll keep using Zone Alarm. It's not as good as the hardware firewall, but it's OK.

36 Posted on 12/05/2000 22:13:29 PST by savedbygrace
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To: usconservative, all

Anyone use the accounting software ForeFront?
Ours crashes 5 times a day, and I was told it was a DSL issue. Any ideas?

37 Posted on 12/05/2000 22:19:52 PST by PRND21
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To: usconservative

OK, I now have everything in place. It turns out I didn't need a crossover cable, but rather just a simple change to the router setup.

I was surprised today to get Zone Alarm reports of activity. I thought the hardware firewall would handle all these. Anyone have a clue?

38 Posted on 12/07/2000 19:02:01 PST by savedbygrace
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To: savedbygrace

BUMP

39 Posted on 01/27/2001 16:23:36 PST by SShultz460
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To: usconservative

Does anyone have experience with DirecPC? If so, what have been your experiences? We're ready to go that route but haven't talked to anyone that really knows much about it.

40 Posted on 01/27/2001 16:31:10 PST by gorush (unrepresented@wiscon.sin)
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To: Nick Danger

Yeah, I get 1.5 mega bits per second download speeds pretty consistently on my cable connection. Linux and Win2k are a little faster than Win98. If I open a couple separate ftp connections the total download speed goes up to 1.75 for a while but then settles down to 1.5.

41 Posted on 01/27/2001 16:42:03 PST by wooly_mammoth
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To: usconservative

Why do I read this stuff?

5.56mm

42 Posted on 01/27/2001 16:49:18 PST by M Kehoe
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To: M Kehoe

Why do I read this stuff?

Why do I write this stuff?

43 Posted on 01/27/2001 16:51:30 PST by usconservative
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To: savedbygrace

What type of hardware firewall do you have?

44 Posted on 01/27/2001 16:59:33 PST by Buckeroo (gibraltar@discover.net)
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To: usconservative

Thanks,DSL coming next week(if phone lines hold up).Can't wait!

45 Posted on 01/27/2001 17:03:12 PST by tet68
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To: usconservative

Hillary has a schlong.... oops, sorry, wrong "room"

Oh well

CapeFear

46 Posted on 01/27/2001 17:05:31 PST by CapeFear4W
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To: usconservative

#43

8^)

5.56mm

47 Posted on 01/27/2001 17:05:33 PST by M Kehoe
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To: tet68

DSL is great...I average 1.3-1.7 Mbps downstream and it is truely a breath of fresh air...just like a Bush Presidency after 8 years of Klintoons....

48 Posted on 01/27/2001 21:10:08 PST by SShultz460
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To: Buckeroo

The hardware firewall that is incorporated in the SMC 7400BR DSL Router with built in 4 port switch. It's programmable, but I'm not clear on exactly what I'm programming. I have to open the ports for downloading and also surfing the net, but what that does I'm not sure.

FWIW, I may soon be adding a second 'puter to the switch, but for now it's just the one.

49 Posted on 01/28/2001 05:54:37 PST by savedbygrace
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To: usconservative

bump for later....thanks!!

50 Posted on 01/28/2001 06:03:12 PST by Wild Game
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To: savedbygrace

I searched all of Sun Microsystem's website for your product and turned up no information. But it sounds like a typical firewall wherein you can simply telnet over to it and set it up for both local and global port access.

You want the global port to be set up with your IP addresses and gateway address; don't forget to set up the DNS addresses. On your local side, you will want all of your computers to be a reserved address, say "10.255.255.0." You should be able to select port blocking functions, such that it can intercept scanners from the global port and provide no response or if you choose, to pass that scan through. Find the web page of your product and post it for me. I can help with more detail.

51 Posted on 01/28/2001 10:01:10 PST by Buckeroo (gibraltar@discover.net)
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To: Buckeroo

Thanks, Buck. It's the four port unit at http://www.smc.com/barricade/.

BTW, the ports I've given access to are 21 (FTP,) 80 (WEB,) 110 (POP3,) 20 (FTP-DATA,) and 25 (SMTP.) With these open, do I still need Zone Alarm?

52 Posted on 01/28/2001 12:08:10 PST by savedbygrace
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To: savedbygrace Dat usconservative & all those curious & curvaceous

Their even selling these things{home routers,used to be something you got a Lowes} at Amazon now, amazing!

BTW~What's going on at Radio Shack advertin` MSN high speed ["N O T "] internet?

At first I thought I was `cause I out in the booni's of western New York & the local ISP's slowed down with their Ford Model T routers{Bill Gate's favorite way to sabotage Web-TV}, but I've tried it on several dozen different Radio Shacks in other states(great way to check in on freeperville while on the road).

It sucks everywhere, what's up with that?

BTW```~ I was just over on that interesting Tesla thread, why aren't some of his high freq. Idears used for wireless internet?

53 Posted on 02/02/2001 18:09:43 PST by norraad ("We childproofed our home 3 yrs. ago, they're still gettin' in!" ~ Angela Anaconda's mom ~)
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To: expat + johnhuang2

.

54 Posted on 03/08/2001 19:58:47 PST by ken21
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To: ken21

ping

55 Posted on 03/08/2001 20:05:33 PST by jwalsh07
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To: tech_index

Just bumping some useful info.

56 Posted on 09/09/2001 17:41:06 PDT by Ouachita
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To: Ouachita

Thanks for putting this on the tech_Index list. Just got a cable modem, will look thru the items!

57 Posted on 09/10/2001 10:29:28 PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Bump.

58 Posted on 09/10/2001 11:27:54 PDT by Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
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To: Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy

Bleary-eyed bump from last night installing 2WIRE HomePortal 100W router/firewall with an integrated Wi-Fi (802.11b) wireless access point. Got a Win98 PC on an ethernet connection and a 2000ME notebook running wireless.

BTW does anyone know if I can insert a Mac into a PC-based ethernet network just to use internet. Also when diagnosing and tweaking such a shared IP situation do I tweak each machine or do I tweak for the network. (Not an expert yet)

59 Posted on 09/10/2001 11:47:09 PDT by freedomlover
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To: usconservative

Bump & Bookmark

60 Posted on 09/10/2001 11:50:36 PDT by Stultis
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

You're welcome.
 
I've been hooked up with a cable connection for a couple of weeks now myself and was glad to find this thread.
For the time being, I'm using a tweak program called CableNut. It's simple enough to use as it comes with several pre-configured settings. You can also change the settings manually, but as "usconservative" mentioned above, be sure to back up your registry beforehand.
 
Check this out while you're at it.
Internet Connection Speedometer from McAfee.

61 Posted on 09/10/2001 21:47:43 PDT by Ouachita
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62 Posted on 10/28/2001 19:48:24 PST by Ouachita
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To: usconservative

bump for speed

63 Posted on 10/28/2001 19:52:12 PST by knews_hound
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To: usconservative

One more thought.

Switching from USB to a true ethernet NIC (Network Interface Card) can gain quite a bit of top end on bandwidth. This switch alone, using a used $10 PCI NIC jumped my peak bandwidth (off hours on my cable modem) for downloads from 125 KB/s to around 350 KB/s!

I think that the USB had become the bottleneck in my system.


64 Posted on 11/12/2001 20:10:49 PST by Fixit
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To: usconservative

Thanks for the info!

65 Posted on 01/15/2002 14:12:15 PST by Loyalty_and_Courage
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To: Loyalty_and_Courage

It looks as if this is getting some hits recently, and since this was written some of the sites I reference no longer work.

Well, I've been thinking about updating this info, so I'll take care of that sometime in the next few days...


66 Posted on 01/15/2002 20:02:26 PST by usconservative
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bttt

67 Posted on 01/26/2002 18:14:34 PST by Ouachita
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