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By Sarah Foster
© 1997 WorldNetDaily.com
October 13, 1997
In another life, Kenneth Trentadue had been a bank robber. After serving seven years of a 20-year sentence, he was paroled in 1988 and, as ex-cons are supposed to do, tried to put his criminal past behind him. He got a job with a construction firm, married, and in June, 1995, became the proud father of a son.
By all appearances, Trentadue, 44, had successfully turned his life around and had everything to live for. But he had one problem -- a minor parole violation on his record from 1989. The law caught up with him a month after his son's birth, and he was arrested.
On Aug. 18 he was flown from the Metropolitan Correctional Center in San Diego to the Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City, a major facility of the Justice Department's Bureau of Prisons, to await his hearing. According to family members, he wasn't worried. At most his sentence would be six months, more likely, three. He'd probably be home for Christmas.
The Federal Transfer Center is a new, $80 million high-tech facility at the edge of Will Rogers World Airport. It's not only the transfer point for prisoners being taken to penitentiaries in the federal prison system, it also houses the parole board and hearing rooms.
Like everyone who is admitted into the prison system, Kenneth underwent routine psychological tests to determine if he had suicidal tendencies. The results indicated he didn't. Nevertheless, he was placed, for some unknown reason, in a specially designed, suicide-proof cell in a special unit on the seventh floor that's segregated from the general prison population. A form bearing the signature Vance Brockway -- an lais he used in his bank robbery days -- indicates he asked to be placed in protective custody. Family members say it was a forgery.
On Aug. 21, 1995, Trentadue died in that isolation cell. Officials promptly declared the death a suicide. Trentadue, who was scheduled for a parole hearing, hanged himself from an air vent using a 23-inch length of braid he fashioned from a bedsheet, according to prison officials.
The following day the Inspector General's Office of the Justice Department ruled that no "prosecutable federal crime had occurred." Two years later, that's still the official government line despite a staggering amount of evidence indicating Trentadue was murdered.
Kenneth's mother, Wilma Trentadue of Westminster, Calif., was the first family member to learn of his death. The phone call from acting warden Marie Carter came at 6:40 a.m., informing her that her son had committed suicide a few hours earlier, sometime between 9 p.m. the night before and 3 a.m. that morning. Carter offered to have the body cremated at prison expense. Suspicious, Mrs. Trentadue said she'd consult Kenneth's wife and his brother, Jesse Trentadue, a Salt Lake City attorney.
Wife? Brother? Prison records didn't show he was married. Nor was there any record of his having a trial lawyer -- a former law professor -- for a brother. The records listed his mother and sister as his only family.
Jesse Trentadue was as suspicious as his mother. No cremation, he said, and directed the body be sent to a funeral parlor near Kenneth's home in Westminster.
It was five days before the casket arrived. Kenneth's face was covered with an unusually thick coating of pancake makeup. His broad, six-foot frame had been dressed in a suit. "They (Kenneth's mother, his wife Carmen, and sister Donna) scraped off the makeup and found he was bruised from the top of his head to the soles of his feet," says George Hansen, former seven-term Republican congressman from Idaho and founder of the U.S. Citizens Commission on Human Rights -- a newly-formed grass-roots organization which has been working closely with the Trentadue family.
"An autopsy showed he had been garrotted -- probably with the braided sheet. His throat was cut and torn out. His head was smashed in three places. He had been burned on the face, shoulders and tailbone with an electrical stun-gun. Under his arms were deep bruises showing how he had been held while others beat up on him.
There was blood all over the place, according to the guy that had to clean it up afterwards. It was a fight for his life."
The cover-up of this ghastly crime began before the victim was dead. A call to 911 was made at approximately 3:20 a.m., but when the paramedics arrived they weren't allowed in the cell to resuscitate Trentadue, though supposedly he was still alive. Minutes later -- having been sent away, then called back to confirm his death -- they were told the massive injuries they saw on the body (now removed to another room) were caused by Trentadue falling and hitting his head on the sink while trying to hang himself. They never saw the death cell itself.
Investigators for Dr. Fred Jordan, Oklahoma City's chief medical examiner, were also denied access to the scene -- a violation of state and federal law, according to Jesse Trentadue. This, despite the fact that Jordan's job includes investigating the deaths of prisoners at the center.
Jordan performed an autopsy that morning and ruled that Kenneth Trentadue had died of asphyxiation, in a manner "unknown." Without viewing the death scene, the medical examiner refused to declare the obviously battered body a suicide. Jordan asked the FBI to investigate the death, but that agency soon turned the investigation over to the Bureau of Prisons.
Wallace Cheney, assistant director of the Bureau of Prisons, tried to assuage concerns raised by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., of the Senate Judiciary Committee. In a letter to the senator dated April 4, 1996, Cheney wrote: "On that same morning (August 21), a representative of the Oklahoma Medical Examiner's Office came to the institution, viewed Kenneth Michael Trentadue and examined the cell. The cell had not been disturbed except for the removal of the body." Jordan has publicly discounted that statement as "a lie." No one from his office was granted access for five months.
By then the cell had been cleaned many times. Yet when the medical examiner's chief investigator Kevin Rowland applied Luminol, a chemical able to detect blood invisible to the eye, "the place lit up like a Christmas tree," Jordan says.
This corroborates descriptions by a prisoner who cleaned the cell within hours of the death, and of Rasonda Chisholm, a licensed practical nurse, who supervised the work. "It was a bloodbath," said former inmate orderly Steven Cole. "There was blood on the floor and splattered all over the walls." There were bloody fingerprints around the alarm button near the door inside the cell. "From those fingerprints, it seemed to me as though he had been trying to reach the alarm button when he was killed," he said.
Chisholm recalled asking the attending officer about the blood. She was told Trentadue was so determined to commit suicide that he bashed his skull during a fall, then climbed on the sink to finish the job. "I can't imagine, you know, losing that much blood and apiece of your skulland you're able to climb back up on the sink," said Chisholm.
With dogged determination, Jesse Trentadue compiled a mass of compelling evidence that counters the official version of his brother's death at every point -- including depositions from key witnesses.
Eventually, Attorney General Janet Reno was forced to order a federal grand jury investigation. One has been meeting off and on since last October. Trentadue calls the proceedings "a sham." Witnesses Cole, Chisholm and others haven't been called, though their names were given to the federal prosecutor.
Last April, Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, attempted to get some explanations from Reno during a committee hearing on the Justice Department's budget. "I fear the Department is not taking this investigation seriously," he told her. Hatch said the department had denied his requests for information because, he was told, an investigation was "pending."
Reno promised to check with the prosecutors "to make sure that everything is being done that we can do." Hatch tried again. "Two or three hours a month is not a very active grand jury," he said. "It looks as though somebody in the Bureau of Prisons, or having relationships with the Bureau of Prisons, murdered the man." Reno said she couldn't comment, but agreed to have the matter "vigorously pursued."
Fortunately, the federal grand jury isn't the only vehicle for getting at the truth. Jesse Trentadue has filed a civil suit against officials of the Justice Department and the Bureau of Prisons for wrongful death and violation of civil rights.
And an Oklahoma county grand jury, empaneled to probe further in the Oklahoma City bombing case, is also investigating the Trentadue death, prompted by the efforts of Dr. Jordan and former Rep. Hansen. "We know a great deal about the case," says Hansen. "We know it was done by a 12-man SORT (Special Operations Response Team) outfit in full riot gear. We know the names of the people who cleaned up the cell and of the guy in the laundry room when the guards brought in their bloody clothes. We have the names of the guys who were on the shift that probably did the killing. They've been turned over to the grand juries." What's not known is why.
Hansen speculates: "One scenario is, he was a bad apple and got in a fight with the guards. But that doesn't fit from what we know about him -- and it doesn't explain why he was killed. Another scenario is the guards figured he had heard something and tried to beat it (the information) out of him. And things got out of control." "No matter who did it or why, there are eight killers walking around free," says Hansen "We want them arrested and brough to justice even if they do work for the federal government."
Jesse Trentadue also wonders. "I go round and round on that 24 hours a day," he says. "I still have no answers." "They didn't only kill him, he was extensively tortured first -- then they killed him and tried to cover it up," said Jesse Trentadue. "It's not just the guards at the prison who are trying to cover this up. It's coming from the highest levels of the Justice Department."
[End of Transcript]
Cover-Up In Cell 709A
"Perhaps Ms. Fischer should contact J.D. Cash, reporter for the McCurtain Daily Gazette in Idabel, OK. I recall Cash talking about this strange death during his coverage of the Tim McVeigh trial. There is a lot of nasty goings on relating to the neo-Nazi terrorist cells, the midwest bank robbery ring (and others, I'm sure) that were robbing banks, gun dealers, etc. around the country to get money and arms for their terrorist activities.
Kenneth Trentadue is, if memory serves, the fellow who Cash reported had connections to these terrorist groups and knowledge of the government's (alleged) role in promoting their activities and the link to the Murrah building bombing. Case in point: Elohim City and the gang of Dennis Mahon, Andreas Strassmeir, Michael Brescia, Tim McVeigh, and a large supporting cast. Trentadue made the fatal mistake of bragging about a 'tell-all' book he was planning to write about his knowledge of the arcane relationship between the federal government and these terrorist cells. Trentadue was looking for a book deal and bragging about the millions of dollars he figured to make by telling his story. I believe he was found dead within 24 hours after making that rash boast.
I could be mistaken, but I think Ms. Fischer should try to contact J.D. Cash if she is really serious about getting to the bottom of this story. And she might want to consider buying a bullet-proof vest while she's at it."
IMHO, Bev
bcspecht at westol dot com
From: B.C. Specht () *
01/16/98 15:53:39 PST
Federal Prison Murder?: No Body in cell A709
FBI officials delayed probe of prison death, report says [Kenneth Michael Trentadue]
Report: Inspector General critical of Oklahoma City FBI office [Trentadue, OKBOMB]
Feds Lose Inmate Body Negatives
A Prisoner's Suicide, or a Bloody Murder?
Trentadue Family awaits FBI Report
Surprise witness, new evidence in the wings waiting for October trial in Oklahoma City murder case
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CLOSES INVESTIGATION INTO TRENTADUE DEATH
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- After an extensive investigation into
the death of Kenneth Michael Trentadue at the Federal Transfer Center (FTC) in Oklahoma City, the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division today ended its probe, determining that the evidence does not establish a violation of federal criminal law.
Reno closes Trentadue case — Meanwhile, Sen. Hatch opens it!
This photograph shows the actual and fabricated ligature marks on Kenneth’s neck. Below the examiner’s finger is a laceration on Kenneth’s throat. It was done by a Two-Pronged instrument. This wound was inflicted to simulate the suspension point that would normally occur in a hanging. In a hanging, the rope or ligature goes up behind the jaw/ear; whereas the ligature with which Kenneth was killed was parallel with his shoulders across his throat. Follow the line going parallel to his shoulders across his throat, this shows Trentadue was strangled from behind not hanged.
Note also the multi-directional flow of the blood, up, down and sideways. This indicates that Kenneth was laid in several positions. In exhibit #3 (not shown here) blood is shown running upward into his ear from his neck area, making it obvious that Ken was lying with his head substantially lower than the remainder of his body.
This is a photograph taken of the vent in Kenneth’s cell from which he supposedly hanged himself. Note that the vent is not deformed or distorted from the weight of a man’s body. Faintly visible, on the left side of the light cover bloody palm and fingerprints can be seen. Nurse Rashonda Chisolm and inmates Steven Cole and George Orella testified these prints were not present when they were sent to clean the cell in the afternoon of Aug. 21, 1995. They had been removed prior to the inmates’ cleaning. Obviously they were prints belonging to the guards who murdered Kenneth.
The piece of torn bed sheet is looped through the vent. Note there is no blood on the vent itself. Also interesting is the evidence of blood seen above the area where Ken supposedly would have hung himself. The thin bed sheet was destroyed by the FBI. The other half was given to Dr. Jordon and was braided, which does not match the piece seen draped from the vent. Kenneth who stood 5’ 8” is supposed to have reached the vent which is 11 feet from the floor. (He would have done so after beating himself to a bloody pulp, shooting himself several times with a stun gun, stomping on his own chest with a boot, and bashing his head against the wall.) Also found was Ken’s bed sheet—fully in tact—on his bed.
Federal Government Had Prior Knowledge of OKC Bombing
There Is No Justice In America
Fascinating story Uncle Bill. Only in herr klintons Amerika.
The outrage I feel makes me wonder how the family can control themselves.
This is the justice dept. that is over 70% left over from the Bush administration.
Reno appoints Danforth to cover up Waco, Bush is considering Danforth for VP.
Your right! There is no justice in this country.
Prison Agency, FBI Faulted In '95 Inmate Suicide Case
Reuters via Washington Post
Wednesday, December 8, 1999; Page A18
The Justice Department's inspector general faulted the Bureau of Prisons and the FBI for a series of mistakes in the case of a 1995 inmate suicide in Oklahoma City, according to a summary of the investigation released yesterday.
The report by acting Inspector General Robert Ashbaugh concluded that Kenneth Trentadue killed himself at the Federal Transfer Center, where he was found hanging from a grate in his cell with a bedsheet around his neck. But the report said the response by Bureau of Prison employees was "significantly flawed."
"They inappropriately delayed entry into his cell, did not examine him properly and did not immediately provide medical attention to him," the report said.
It said the FBI devoted insufficient attention to the case for several months, then mishandled and misplaced important evidence.
The report also concluded that three Bureau of Prisons employees and one FBI employee lied about their actions to supervisors, investigators or the inspector general's office.
Although the Justice Department's public integrity unit declined to bring any charges for the false statements, the inspector general called it "serious misconduct" and referred the matter to the FBI and Bureau of Prisons for "appropriate action."
The full 206-page report has not been released.
You stated....."Only in herr klintons Amerika"
Lest we forget Ruby ridge was on Bush's watch. Waco started on Bush's watch. The planning for the Oklahoma City bombing was likely started on Bush's watch.
Clinton is a puppet. GW and Gore are puppets.
It is time for people to wake up.
Bmp.
J.D. Cash
McCurtain Daily Gazette
"Agents Probe OKC Bombing Links To Bank Robberies" -Part 13
Tuesday, July 16, 1996
Immediately after the arrest of McVeigh and Nichols, federal investigators said there could be reason to suspect the bombers night have been involved in a series of bank holdups which had sprung up across the Midwest. A group calling itself the Aryan Republican Army had been on a wide-ranging and profitable crime spree since 1992.
Mocking their pursuers with cartoons and letters to newspaper, the bandits used various disguises, including Bill Clinton masks and Santa Claus hats, and sometimes even donned makeup and wigs to appear Middle Eastern. Witnesses said the crooks often spoke in "gibberish" while they cleaned out the tellers' drawers.
By December of last year, the men had hit 22 banks and made off with some $250,000. Investigators said that much of the money was funneled back to various neo-Nazi groups. None of it has ever been recovered.
Finally, a Break in the case occurred in January, when a pair of suspects were arrested in Ohio. Peter K. Langan, 37, and Richard Lee Guthrie Jr., 38, were picked up and charged as accomplices in the robberies. Soon after Guthrie made a deal with prosecutors and began naming names. And some of those names would be familiar ones.
Admitting that the gang's purpose was to finance the white supremacist movement, Guthrie eventually led investigators to two other members of the group, Kevin McCarthy, 19, and Scott Stedeford, 27. On May 24 and 22, respectively, the two were arrested near their hometown of Philadelphia, Pa.
In short order, various news organizations found out that the last two suspects had links to Elohim City and two former residents there, Andreas Strassmeir and Michael Brescia. "Yes, it's true," Said Millar. "Those two men stayed at Elohim City before the bombing. Stedeford for a short time, maybe a few weeks. Kevin McCarthy, for several months." Also , Millar, remembers, "Strassmeir and Brescia did spend some time with them while they were here." In fact, after Brescia left Oklahoma in January, he returned to his native Pennsylvania and stayed with white supremacist guru Mark Thomas, 44, also a Pennsylvanian.
A close friend of fellow Aryan Nation radical Dennis Mahon, Mark Thomas now admits that he visited Elohim City just days before the bombing. Thomas says the trip was to visit with his son, who also lived at the compound. During questioning by the FBI, the elder Thomas admitted that he introduced Stedeford and McCarthy to Guthrie and Langan.
Media investigators also report that Mike Brescia formed a rock band dubbed "Cyanide" with McCarthy and Stedeford just prior to the pair's arrest. Referred to as the "Mystery Man" in a June 30 story appearing in the Philadelphia Inquirer, local authorities indicated that Brescia could be of special interest to them, although his whereabouts are unknown.
However, the man who recently made a deal with prosecutors is not going to be of any help now. Richard Guthrie's testimony was expected to unlock this tangled web of characters and events, but that inmate was found dead Friday. Kentucky prison officials said that they found Guthrie hanging from a bed sheet in his cell. The cause of death has been tentatively ruled as suicide. Authorities say two notes were left in the cell. The contents of the notes were not released.
Bmp.
Chuck Baldwin Live
OKLAHOMA CITY COVERUP EXPOSED
By Edward Zehr
But The Mainstream Media Are Still In Denial
The Washington Weekly - Feb. 3, 1997
...Carol E. Howe is a 26-year-old former actress and beauty queen who has won awards for steeplechase competition and hunting. She was an honors student in high school and college. More recently she has worked as an infiltrator of extremist groups and paid informant for the BATF, as has been revealed by the McCurtain Gazette and confirmed by the Justice Department.
The newspaper conducted a series of interviews with Ms. Howe after learning her identity in early December and contacting her on Christmas Eve. During the course ofthe interviews she told them ofthe white supremacist ARA at Elohim City that had made plans to blow up a government building and had selected three potential targets in Oklahoma. She also described "in great detail" the work she did for Special Agent Angela Finley of the Tulsa office of the BATF. The agency has confirmed that Howe worked for them. In more than 70 reports she filed with the agency, Howe revealed that two of the subjects from Elohim City, Strassmeir and a man named Dennis Mahon, a former Oklahoma Klansman, had been casing the targeted buildings. Howe went along on one of the three trips the pair made to Oklahoma City for this purpose.
According to Evans-Pritchard, Howe revealed in her monthly informant's reports that the subjects she had under surveillance had set a target date of April 19th of 1995 for the attack. She submitted these reports to Angela Finley before the April 19th bombing, not afterward, as erroneously reported by NBC. The McCurtain Gazette is unequivocal in reporting what "Howe says is the indisputable truth -- that the government had 'detailed prior knowledge' of the plot to bomb the building, but somehow failed to stop it."
Within hours of the bombing, Howe was taken to the basement of the old Pepco building in downtown Oklahoma City for a debriefing. She was able to identify John Doe I and John Doe II immediately from sketches provided by federal agents. According to Evans-Pritchard, she identified Brescia as John Doe II, but John Doe I was not McVeigh as has been commonly assumed. The British journalist told Jim Quinn in a radio interview that he knows the identity of John Doe I, but is reluctant to divulge it at present.
In the same interview, Evans-Pritchard dropped a bombshell of his own. Although the government claims to have witnesses who identify McVeigh as the person who came to the Ryder agency, under the alias of Robert Kling, to rent the truck used in the bombing, he could not have been there. McVeigh's defense team have a video tape taken from a surveillance camera that shows him sitting in a McDonald's in Junction City, eating a hamburger, at the time the truck was rented. This might explain why the description of John Doe I circulated by the FBI referred to a man with "pock-marked skin, fairly stocky" who stood about 5'10", whereas McVeigh is about 6' 3" tall, thin as a rail (160 Ibs) and has a smooth complexion.
Ms. Howe's story is supported by recently discovered documents that the government is required by law to turn over to the McVeigh defense team a request by McVeigh's attorneys, the prosecution told Judge Richard Match that they had no information linking Strassmeir to the bombings. The judge is reported to have been outraged by the deception, telling one ofthe prosecutors, "You lie to me one more time and you'll be off this case! " He then ordered the government to turn over copies of all pertinent documents to the defense. Consequently, McVeigh's lawyers now have copies of all of the monthly reports that Howe filed with the BATF. Presumably, this is what prompted NBC to air their version of the story."
[End of partial transcript]
"When J.D. Cash published his astounding scoop in the McCurtain Daily Gazette, it set off an earthquake. The Justice Department had insisted time and again that no agency of the U.S. Government had had an informant at Elohim City. It was a demonstrable lie--for which, by the way, nobody has ever been sanctioned or held to account. Now there was a frantic campaign to prevent any major news outlet from picking up the Cash story. An ABC News segment on Carol Howe was pulled at the last moment on February 5, 1997.
The ABC producers for 20/20 were sitting in the lobby at ABC's KTUL affiliate in Tulsa, waiting to watch the program, only to find that it had been replaced by a segment on New Zealand. When it became clear that the piece was never going to run, the assistant producer, retired Marine Lt. Col. Roger Charles, spoke out in protest. Appearing on the Don Imus radio show, he accused Peter Jennings and the top management of ABC News of caving in to political pressure. He was fired immediately.
"There were two messages," Charles told me later.
The Secret Life of Bill Clinton - Ambrose Evans-Pritchard - Page 71-72
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Bump To The Top!
Bomb Theories and Genuine Analysis
Feds Label Okla. Inmate Death a Suicide But Some Officers Did Lie, Report Says
AP
Dec. 8, 1999
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) -- Relatives of an inmate who died in an Oklahoma cell criticized a Justice Department report that concludes officers lied about the case but affirms that the prisoner committed suicide.
The report by the department's inspector general was issued Tuesday. It rejects allegations of a cover-up in the case of Kenneth Trentadue, who was found hanging in his cell Aug. 21, 1995, in the Federal Transfer Center at the Oklahoma City airport.
An attorney for the Trentadue family, Scott Adams, said the government appears to be trying to "put square pegs into round holes."
"If a bullfrog had wings, it could fly," he said of the government argument that Trentadue killed himself.
Brother thinks he was fatally beaten
Trentadue's brother, Jesse, believes he was beaten to death by guards who then tried to make the death look like a suicide. Trentadue's estate is suing several federal agencies and officers in the case.
"You have clear-cut evidence of four government employees committing false statements and perjury and you have the Justice Department refusing to prosecute," Adams said. "That speaks volumes about this case and about what we've been dealing with."
The report does criticize the Bureau of Prisons, the FBI's investigation and the FBI's handling of some evidence in the death.
The most serious criticism was that "three BOP employees and one FBI employee made false statements under oath to their supervisors, to various investigators or to the Office of the Inspector General in this matter."
Lack of 'prosecutive merit'
None were named. The inspector general referred the four to the Justice Department's criminal division, but declined to charge them with crimes citing a lack of "prosecutive merit."
The inspector general now has recommended their agencies administratively impose "significant discipline" for their "serious misconduct."
After a two-year investigation, the inspector general joined the Oklahoma County district attorney and the state medical examiner in concluding Trentadue killed himself. A federal grand jury investigation also found no evidence to refute that conclusion.
[End of Transcript]
I think I can sum it up. They beat him, tortured him, electrocuted him, killed him, left him, covered up, cleaned up, the FBI covered up, the Justice Department covered up, Janet Reno was turning over every rock in pursuit of justice and truth, Hatch went after Reno with a fierce wrath but found nothing in those Republican investigations, Specter was urgently trying to find Scottish law docket files with regard to prison mishap reform law, the Republicans are "concerned," the Democrats see nothing wrong and business as usual, the media think Bill Clinton should call for new prison locks, the family is so sick they can't think, and Lady Justice has long sailed out to sea, looking for some shore, any shore, to apply her hands of law, justice, liberty, freedom and truth to a sober and ignorant-free people.
Post #7, Richard Guthrie.
Remember when I asked you if vehicle axles have VIN#'s? See questions #21 and #22.
Thirty Oklahoma City Bombing Questions That Demand an Answer NOW!
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If you haven't seen the following, the entire book is on-line. Thought you might be interested.
The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of Terror
SOOOO!
Sen. John Danforth is connected to this trail of blood!
AMAZING!
I think we should loudly tell Bush to try again!
NO DANFORTH!
Bttt
Bttt
Yes, I clearly remember your asking me that question.
There was quite a dispute about it here a while back (I'm thinking it was between Michael Rivero and Landshark).
Neither convinced me either way at the time, and I had not checked out outside of here whether the axle would have had a VIN number.
Yes, I know of the book, The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics Of Terror.
I had a small but interesting part in the researching of it, relating to Andreas Strassmeir's passport.
Do you recollect off the top whether Hoffman delved into whether there was anything unusual about Strassmeir's visa status?
btt
Bump. Fabulous work.
Thank you so much for the heads up!!!
You asked about the VIN and questions 21 & 22.
21.
FBI agents are said to have tracked down McVeigh's truck rental agency by finding a vehicle identification number (VIN) on the truck's rear axle. This axle was found either in the bomb crater, according to the mayor of Oklahoma City's initial press statement, or three blocks away according to the later FBI version. Which statement is true?
22.
There is another problem to the Ryder truck tale. No rear axle on any vehicle manufactured in America is imprinted with a VIN, even after recent legislation forcing manufacturers to place multiple VINS on the engine, firewall, and frame to discourage chop shops. When queried, a spokesman for Ryder told reporters than it does not imprint additional VINS on its trucks. The only conceivable number available on a rear axle is a part number, but a part number couldn't lead to the identification of a specific vehicle. We have here another case where the FBI version of events simply COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED in the way the Bureau claims it happened. Where did the VIN story come from? Why has it been created and circulated by the media?
I researched this extensively in the process of debating Landshark on the subject. Here is my summary post to him. He was claiming his brother had researched the part number from an axle to the VIN, many times.
To: Lndshk[You stated....."It is done all the time and he has done it"]
Did you ask him about part numbers specifically? Part numbers can not be tied to a VIN...PERIOD. The only thing that can tie a part(like the rear-end housing to a VIN(known as the Public Vehichle Identification Number) is a CVID(known as the Confidential Vehichle Identification). These are added after the vehichle is assembled.
CVID numbers are registered with the National Insurance Crime Bureau By the owner. In this case RYDER. This huge database is kept for a fee. Every vehichle is not in it. The manufacturer does not keep this information unless it is on the build sheet. The build sheet is not kept ad-infinitum.
The part number is assigned to a part to identify the kind of part it is. It is used when ordering a part. There are thousands of parts(millions in some cases) with the same part number. This makes it impossible to determine a VIN from the Part Number.
Further for your information the purported CVID on the rear axle assembly in OKC case was PVA26077. The VIN on the Ryder truck rented by Tim McVeigh was 1FDNF72J4PVA26077(a Ford by the way). If this was a CVID and not a part number(probably the case, I just haven't verified it), it proves the assembly came from the Ryder truck which he rented. If it was a part number, then the VIN could be used to verify it was original equipment(as posted by someone else), but not visa versa.
The problem is it does not prove it came from the truck that had the bomb in it. The axle assembly was unscathed and over 500 feet away. The back bumper was rolled up into a twisted ball. This raises the question about the axle being in such good shape.
Cheers
From: eazdzit (Impeach him again) * 05/08/99 08:41:42 PDT
Re VIN's on axles. The number they gave in this post is indeed a VIN. A Ford part number on the axle would be probably be F3XX-####-X (F representing decade 1990 and 3 narrowing it to 1993, #'s same for all axles, followed by revision code)
Seems it would be pretty easy to find out if they stamp VIN's on the axle by crawling under one and looking.
I do know that U-Haul has been doing that on their *trailers* for quite a while. I have purchased two drop axles cut out of old trailers from a slavage place. I narrowed one and it has a plate in the center with the VIN stamped in it.
you stated...."Re VIN's on axles. The number they gave in this post is indeed a VIN."
WRONG PVA26077 is not a VIN. They are required by law and definition to be 17 digits long. This number is probably a CVID as stated in the trial transcripts.
Here is what was posted.
Further for your information the purported CVID on the rear axle assembly in OKC case was PVA26077. The VIN on the Ryder truck rented by Tim McVeigh was 1FDNF72J4PVA26077(a Ford by the way). If this was a CVID and not a part number(probably the case, I just haven't verified it), it proves the assembly came from the Ryder truck which he rented. If it was a part number, then the VIN could be used to verify it was original equipment(as posted by someone else), but not visa versa.
"This is the justice dept. that is over 70% left over from the Bush administration.
Reno appoints Danforth to cover up Waco, Bush is considering Danforth for VP"
Sounds like "bushbashing" to the bushbabies.:-)
Keep voting pubbicrat for more of the same. There is another party to vote for.
This is disgusting. I'm sure Cohen will brief GWB on this, too. Unless that's not necessary. All in the family. Bastards.
Danforth is a CFR
"WRONG PVA26077 is not a VIN. They are required by law and definition to be 17 digits long. This number is probably a CVID as stated in the trial transcripts.
Here is what was posted.
Further for your information the purported CVID on the rear axle assembly in OKC case was PVA26077. The VIN on the Ryder truck rented by Tim McVeigh was 1FDNF72J4PVA26077(a Ford by the way)."
I am so terribly sorry. I should have said that it was PART of the VIN.
Bttt
A.G., thought you might be interested in this.
Wow! Thank you so much for the link!!!
Thanks for the headsup to the link!
OK. No problem. The real issue is why didn't they use the VIN from the bomb truck. It should have been easy to find. (Clue....Maybe it didn't match the one McVeigh rented.)
Why didn't they use the ignition. The Ryder people would have had identifiable matching keys to fit it.
It is possible the number they used was a lot #,(used to identify the batch and manufacturer).
At any rate they went to a lot of trouble (overkill)in the trial, trying to prove this axle was traced to the bomb truck. Then they failed to prove it. They only proved it came from the truck McVeigh rented.
You are aware that McVeigh was seen in a Ryder truck before he rented the one identified by the axle. Also a Ryder truck was observed at a lake in Kansas everyday for a week prior to his renting the truck they identified with the axle. He rented it on the 17th and the bomb went off on the morning of the 19th.
It is likely that it took more than 1 day to pick up all the materials and build the bomb and drive to Oklahoma City. It is more likely the bomb had been built in the first truck he had been seen in.
Hi Uncle Bill. Thanks for the bump and for this impressive post.
There were some wire stories on the Trentadue case last December when a 15-page summary of the investigative report was released. According to one AP story, the physician assistant who first went to Trentadue's cell was trained in a foreign medical school and wasn't licensed in Oklahoma. They didn't give his name. If these haven't been posted I'll put them up on the thread.
"If these haven't been posted I'll put them up on the thread."
Sorry I didn't get back to you until now. Been busy. Yes indeed, please post them!
Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.
|
OKLAHOMA CITY
Jan Ewing of the Oklahoma State Board of Medical Licensure said she could find no record of the physician assistant having an
Oklahoma license.
Oklahoma law requires a physician assistant to be trained in a U.S. medical facility and be licensed to practice medicine under a
licensed physician's supervision, said Dan McNeill, director of the University of Oklahoma physician assistants program.
"If I had someone in federal prison, I would be concerned about the standards or quality of care," McNeill said.
The man is still employed at the Oklahoma City Federal Transfer Center and has not been disciplined by the bureau.
The response by the physician assistant to a hanging incident at the facility is under fire.
The Justice Department's Office of Inspector General found numerous errors in the physician assistant's response when he got
word that Kenneth Michael Trentadue was hanged in his prison cell.
|
The Inspector General's office found that physician assistant didn't respond when he heard the first radio transmission about the
hanging.
The physician assistant went to the cell with only his stethoscope and penlight - leaving the prison's emergency bag behind after being summoned. The man also didn't hurry to Trentadue's aid and watched while the scene was videotaped. The physician assistant then checked Trentadue's wrist for a pulse and listened for heart sounds with his stethoscope while Trentadue was still hanging. The Inspector General report said he then told the guard supervisor that Trentadue was dead. The report said the man should have responded to the call when he heard the first radio transmission. "When he did respond, he should have been better equipped and should have brought his emergency medical bag," the report said. Investigators said the physician assistant should have examined Trentadue before the videotaping. Trentadue also should have been cut down before the examination. The report quoted an El Reno federal prison physician as stating it was "absolutely improper to check the pulse while the inmate is hanging." The report also criticizes the physician assistant for not trying to revive Trentadue. It says he lied and told an ambulance driver, the FBI and a Bureau of Prisons Board of Inquiry that he had performed lifesaving techniques on Trentadue. But he eventually confessed the truth to a federal grand jury. Foreign-educated physician assistants make up about an eighth of the medical staff positions within federal facilities operated by the Bureau of Prisons, a bureau spokesman said. |
Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion.
|
Jesse Trentadue, who lives in Salt Lake City, is asking U.S. District Judge Tim Leonard to make the complete report public.
"I understand fully why they don't want the truth out," he said of the summary. "The Justice Department has been besieged by
allegations of corruption, perjury and murder. This is just the latest."
The summary acknowledges that three prison guards and an FBI agent lied under oath to officials investigating Kenneth's death.
It also says the FBI's investigation was "significantly flawed" because agents took days to interview witnesses, months to collect
evidence and years to find photographic negatives of Kenneth's body.
But the summary concludes that Kenneth Trentadue himself inflicted the bruises that covered his body from head to toe, and
that he fractured his skull in a suicide he initially botched.
Jesse Trentadue, who grew up in a West Virginian coal-mining town called No. 7, comes from an Appalachian clan that takes
care of its own.
When Jesse was 15 and Kenneth 12, the family relocated to Southern California where the brother's lives diverged. Jesse was a
teammate to track relay runner O.J. Simpson at the University of Southern California, a Marine and a law school graduate in
Idaho before moving to Salt Lake City to practice law. Kenneth dropped out of high school, went AWOL from the Army and
robbed banks.
But in 1988 Kenneth was on parole and seemed to be going straight. He was working steadily in construction, had married a
hairdresser, Carmen Aguilar, and in 1995 was expecting a son. Then he stopped reporting to his parole officer because he had
been drinking beer, which violated his parole.
|
Kenneth was arrested, and on Aug. 18, 1995, arrived at the Federal Transfer Center near the Oklahoma City airport.
Two days later, he was dead. Prison officials called it a suicide and offered to cremate the body. The close-knit, grieving family was confused because Kenneth hadn't seemed depressed. The family insisted the body be shipped home to Orange County, Calif. They found thick makeup on the corpse. Underneath were bruises, holes, cuts and scraped skin which Jesse carefully photographed. Kenneth's knuckles were swollen. Bruises in the shape of fingerprints were under his arms. The family learned that Kenneth's cell had been awash in blood, but the mess was cleaned up before investigators arrived, making it impossible to thoroughly study the death scene. Surveillance cameras monitoring corridors near Kenneth's cell malfunctioned the night and morning of his death. Questions turned from doubts to disbelief, then to a quest. "All we ever wanted was the truth," said Jesse, "and any justice, based on that truth." Mother Wilma, now a widow, travels to Washington D.C. , to picket Justice offices. Wife Carmen and sister Donna appear on talk shows, a younger brother publishes newsletters and Jesse gathers evidence. The family has filed a federal lawsuit against prison guards and the government. The case was to go to trial Nov. 15, but was postponed indefinitely while the government appeals. In the meantime, Judge Leonard in Oklahoma City has sealed the case, including the Justice Department's full report on Kenneth's death. The summary of the report, however, refutes the family's claims of murder. Investigators said no defensive wounds were found on Kenneth's body to indicate he had been in a fight. He "first attempted to hang himself, fell from the sink during this attempt, attempted to cut his throat with a toothpaste tube, then successfully hanged himself with a bed sheet he put around his neck and attached to the vent grate above the sink." Jesse has a host of counterclaims: he produces documents indicating that the absence of blood on the vent shows Kenneth had not tried to hang himself; a guard confessed to beating Kenneth, then said the admission came only because he had been drunk. The summary points out the Oklahoma County district attorney and state medical examiner concluded Trentadue killed himself, and a federal grand jury found no evidence to refute that conclusion. "My brother did not commit suicide," Jesse says flatly. "That's a lie." |
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thanx unc
The old Reno "mistakes were made" alibi. IOW "It was a suicide but we bungled the investigation so badly that it simply doesn't look like one. We promise never to do it again." Oh....OK.
FYI - another story for you, have you had enough yet? Evil and corruption abound.
(P.S. Don't read this if you are having a bad day, bookmark and save for another time.)
I was just doing a self search to see what might be up. Thanks for passing this along. I will save it and read it when I get back from Miami. BTW, I had enough a long time ago! Be good!
BTTT
BTTT!!!!
Ambrose Prichert has been back in England for years now. Anyone contacted him in the matter? If he had information and names he did not want to release before, he might reconsider now.
His connection to Carol Howe and her participation is a major part of the story. What has happened with Carol Howe? If she was an undercover agent or just a paid inside source, she was outed; so what is she doing now? Healthy and all?
Who benefits and how? What was gained by this whole tragedy? It has to be more than the immediate of he had information about the governments part in the bank robberies, and information about the bombing before the fact. Why no admit failure, turned agents, corruption in that one office somehow and cut it down and prosecute those working there and cut theirselves loose from it. What can be worth all these falsifications and murders that makes any sense?
Our minds love intrigue and mystery.
There Is No Justice In America
Rome was a mighty powerful nation and it fell for the corruption that was inside its walls, and so shall the United States of America! God will destroy this powerful nation in His own time, guaranteed!
The picture links do not work for me.
In going to the complete on line book Re: Political Terrorism, It referred me to come back another time.
Raises the query of WHY?
The picture links do not work for me.
In going to the complete on line book Re: Political Terrorism, It referred me to come back another time.
Raises the query of WHY?
The picture links do not work for me.
Sometimes you might have to click on it again after it gives you those weird messages. Sometimes it works, sometime it don't!
Why the Murray building was bombed is not clear. The fact that our government knew it was coming and was involved in the coverup is quite clear.
The killings are routine cleanup work.
Search Freerepublic on "OKCSubmariner" and read his posts. You will be convinced.
Cheers. :^)
BTTT
It sure is beginning to look like McVeigh is a government pawn.
I wouldn't be surprised if he goes into the witness protection program after his lethal injection. They will probably have to reschedule his plastic surgery.
One thing is for sure. He will not be talking as long as he is confined.
Bumping for links
Bumping DoJ!!
BTTT
58 Posted on 01/29/2002 09:41:12 PST by eazdzit
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