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MILK--The Deadly Poison

Government Miscellaneous Keywords: MILK & MILK PRODUCTS, BOVINE GROWTH HORMONE [BGH], MONSANTO, FDA, BREAST/PROSTATE CANCER
Source: NotMilk.com
Published: 1-03-99 Author: Robert Cohen
Posted on 06/07/2000 13:02:50 PDT by metalbird1

The Dairy Education Board (01/03/99)


By Robert Cohen Executive Director Text Only

Dear Friends,

      I have written a book (MILK-The Deadly Poison) and founded the Dairy Education Board because of a secret I learned in 1994. That secret: Laboratory animals got cancer from a new additive that is now in our milk, cheese and ice cream. FDA knew the truth but they hid it. MONSANTO knew the truth but they also did everything in their power to pull a veil over FDA's regulatory review process for POSILAC, the trade name for the genetically engineered version of a cow's natural growth hormone. That genetically engineered hormone is commonly referred to as either BST or BGH (bovine somatotropin or bovine growth hormone).

      The study in question was performed in 1989 by three scientists, Richard, Odaglia and Deslex. I obtained portions of that study and learned that FDA never reviewed it, despite the fact that it was the KEY to the entire controversy.

      On August 24, 1990, FDA published a review of the BST research. That study was authored by Judy Jeskevich and Greg Guyer and published in SCIENCE magazine.

      I have written about that study and Chapter Three of my book includes the complete study with my comments. I have decided to publish that entire CHAPTER 3 on my webpage.

WARNING: IT IS QUITE TECHNICAL... AND QUITE REVEALING!

      After learning that laboratory animals got cancer from this hormone, I filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for the raw data. I wished to review the weights of spleens and kidneys and ovaries and thirty-one different tissues and organs from the 360 animals in this study. I lost that request to have the study released.

      I then filed a suit in Federal Court. During my suit, our government passed a law which would have had me imprisoned had I released the study.

      Today's column lists 12 "coincidences" that others might call conspiracy. I leave you first with a timeline of my suit to release the animal data.

      Please keep in mind that the Canadian government has also been reviewing this study because MONSANTO seeks approval for their drug in Canada. A few weeks ago Canadian scientists announced what our government has been denying and I have been saying for four years:

This POISON caused cancer in laboratory animals.

THE TIMELINE
  • OCTOBER 3, 1994 Cohen files a FOIA request for the rat study data
  • DECEMBER 24, 1994 FOIA request denied by FDA
  • DECEMBER 24, 1994 Appeal filed with Department of Health (HHS)
  • APRIL 4, 1995 Appeal Denied
  • DECEMBER 5, 1995 Suit filed in Federal Court
  • APRIL 12, 1996 MONSANTO joins suit, represented by KING & SPALDING
  • JULY 29, 1996 My final brief, arguing TRADE SECRETS invalid
  • SEPTEMBER 9, 1996 JUDGE'S decion due
  • OCTOBER 11, 1996 PUBLIC LAW # 104-294 signed by William Clinton
  • DECEMBER 6, 1996 JUDGE rules in favor of MONSANTO

      Public Law # 104-294 was the ECONOMIC ESPIONAGE act. That law was delivered in the middle of my trial and sent a clear message to me. If I revealed a TRADE SECRET I would have been subject to a $10 million dollar fine and 15 years incarceration in a federal prison.

      In his denial, the Honorable Judge Wells wrote to me:

      "Disclosure of the rat's study raw data would allow competitors to develop or refine their products... and would reveal a TRADE SECRET... defendants have adequately demonstrated the likelihood of competitive substantial harm if the study is released."

CONSPIRACY? TO BE, OR NOT TO BE?

1) When Monsanto first started doing research on rbST/rbGH (Posilac), they realized its potential to change all of the foods in our supermarket. They would one day control the seeds for all of our fruits and veggies through genetic engineering and biotechnology. They needed a friend on the Supreme Court. It was then that they began to groom their attorney (from the firm of KING & SPALDING), a young African American with a future.

      Should these issues ever reach the SUPREME COURT, MONSANTO will have a friend in Clarence Thomas.

2) Congress passed a law in 1958 called the Delaney Amendment to the Food and Drug Act which said that if a food additive caused cancer it was not to be approved. When MONSANTO realized that their rbST caused cancer they had their new attorney (from KING & SPALDING), Michael Taylor, write a paper: "A Deminimus Interpretation of the Delaney Amendment". Lawyers usually get published in law review journals. This paper was published in the Journal of the American College of Toxicology.
3) Michael Taylor, Esq. left his high paying job at KING & SPALDING and was hired by...are you ready for this? The FDA! He became the second most powerful man at FDA and wrote the food labeling laws that governed rbST and all genetically engineered products to come.
4) At the same time that Taylor left Monsanto for FDA the scientists left MONSANTO too. MONSANTO's top dairy scientist, Margaret Miller, left the pharmaceutical giant and went to work for...are you ready for this? FDA! Her job was to review her own research. I filed a Freedom of Information Act request for her actual job application and found out that she developed a test for detecting rbST, even though FDA later relieved MONSANTO of that responsibility.
5) Congress had a committee that studied the labeling issues. There were four members of the DAIRY, LIVESTOCK AND POULTRY Committee. These men had a bill that would have required that dairy products containing rbST be labeled as such. These 12 men stalled the bill for six months and NEVER voted upon it. The bill did not make it to the floor of Congress for a vote. When the 1994 session of Congress expired, the bill DIED. I investigated these men and learned that they accepted donations (PAC $$$) from companies with agriculture interests totalling $711,000. Four of the Congressmen accepted money directly from Monsanto while they stalled that bill. They included Volkmer ($2,000), Dooley ($1,000), Gunderson ($1,000) and Pombo ($500).
6) Somebody had to have gotten Monsanto's scientist and attorney hired by FDA. I interviewed ex-FDA commissioners and ex-bosses of these employees and all deny doing the actual hiring. I can only imagine a phone call, calling in a favor here and there. I have no proof who did the hiring, only proof that the DECK was stacked in the review process. I include enormous documentation in my book which would take me a week of EMAILS to document. I will not do that on EMAIL but my book is available, for those so interested.
7) MONSANTO hired the very respected C. EVERETT KOOP to attack critics of rbST. KOOP said the BST-treated milk was indistinguishable from wholesome untreated milk. This was not true. LEVELS OF IGF-I ALWAYS INCREASE IN bst-TREATED MILK.
8) MONSANTO hired the outgoing FDA Commissioner, Arthur Hull Hayes. He went to work for their public relations firm. There was a revolving door policy at FDA. In addition, Michael Taylor left FDA and became an UNDERSECRETARY at UDSA when Espy resigned. He was there to see that genetic engineering reached its potential without regulatory interference. He became the author of the regulations. Taylor is now back at KING & SPALDING represent his CLIENT.
9) Margaret Miller, MONSANTO'S scientist-turned-FDA regulator, was aware that cows were getting mastitis in clinical trials. She ARBITRARILY changed the antibiotic protocol and increased the amounts of permissible antibiotic residues in milk. Before she got to FDA, the standard allowed one part per hundred million. After Miller's change, it was increased by 100 times to one part per million. CONSUMERS UNION tested milk in the New York area and found the presence of 52 different antibiotics in milk sample. The Wall Street Journal did their own tests and confirmed CONSUMERS results.
10) When Bob Dole ran for president his Chief of Staff was Donald Rumsfeld, ex-president of SEARLE, a company acquired by MONSANTO. To place things in perspective...the 1989 smoking gun study was performed by SEARLE scientists for MONSANTO. For all practical purposes, those firms were and are one and the same.
11) When Clinton praised MONSANTO in his State-of-the-Union address two years ago how many people noticed? I sure did. Michale Taylor, the MONSANTO attorney turned FDA and USDA employee is a first cousin to Al Gore's wife, Tipper. Look for President Gore's cabinet to include Mr. Taylor...just a prediction on my part.
12) I have saved the best for last. My favorite. In order to prove rbST safe MONSANTO did a study in Guelph, Canada that led to approval. FDA cited the study in their SCIENCE paper but incorrectly cited the reference. They gave credit to Jerome Moore. When I pulled Moore's paper there was no mention of this reference. I pulled dozens of other papers and found the SMOKING GUN. Had I written a paper like this for high school biology I would have failed. Here was a paper in the most important journal in the world on the most controversial study in FDA history and they made this mistake (and many other errors documented in Chapter 3 of my book).

HERE IS WHAT HAPPENED:

      The Canadian scientist (still an undergrad working with three MONSANTO scientists) pasteruized milk at the normal temperature and time to prove that it destroyed the BST. It did not. He then pasteurized milk for thirty minutes at 72 degrees Celsius (162 degrees Fahrenheit), a temp. reserved for 15 seconds. That only destroyed nineteen percent of the BST. WHEN THAT DID NOT WORK, he sprinkled powdered BST into the milk and pasteruized that. This time the EXPERIMENT worked. They destroyed 90 percent of the "SPIKED MILK." That was THEIR word, SPIKED! Read the study and you will be astounded.

      FDA concluded that milk was safe to drink because pasteurization destroyed the BST. When FDA wrote the SCIENCE paper they included 75 references. Number 75 was Suzanne Sechen, another Monsanto scientist who was hired by FDA to review her own research. Number one reference is usually reserved as an honorary place for a key scientist. Reference number one was given to DALE BAUMAN who is a Cornell researcher and professor. Dale Bauman's papers continue to repeat the MYTH that pasteurization destroyed the BST. Bauman refuses to debate me but he continues to teach this MYTH to his students.

      As a result of the MYTH FDA did three things.

I.    MONSANTO was relieved of doing any further toxicology studies
II.   MONSANTO was relieved of the responsibility of developing a TEST to detect the presence of BST in milk.
III.  A "ZERO DAY WITHDRAWAL" was determined which was an FDA designation meaning that a substance was perfectly safe for human consumption.

SUMMARY

      Lots of coincidences, huh? I call this a conspiracy of ignorance. Put all of these things together and, at the very least, it calls for a review of the RICHARD, ODAGLIA and DESLEX paper, don't you think? If Cohen is WRONG... then there is no big deal.

     If Cohen is right... we've got a problem, Houston!

Robert Cohen (1-201-871-5871)
Executive Director
Dairy Education Board
http://www.notmilk.com


Do you know of someone who should get a copy of this newsletter?
Have them send their Email address to notmilkman@notmilk.com and it will be done!


1 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:02:50 PDT by metalbird1
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To: metalbird1

So many travesties, so little time.

2 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:07:26 PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: metalbird1

I will keep right on drinking milk and demand the government stop poisoning it.

3 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:08:07 PDT by AAPATRIOT
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To: AAPATRIOT

Yeah, you do that.

4 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:12:55 PDT by metalbird1
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

'Ain't' that the truth.

5 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:14:04 PDT by metalbird1
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To: metalbird1

This guy is going on the Mike Siegel show. You can hear the interview at:

Art Bell Web Site

Scroll down and look for archives links.

As for me, I will only drink milk which is free from these nasty hormones.

6 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:24:05 PDT by sigi
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To: sigi

Whether the cow has been injected with BGH {done to increase milk production} or not, milk still has naturally-occurring hormones in it, on top of dioxins {recollect the Ben & Jerry's story?} and a multitude of antibiotics {which undoubtedly is a contributing factor to drug resistance}.

7 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:32:02 PDT by metalbird1
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To: metalbird1

Sounds like the plot of the movie, "I Love Trouble" with Julia Roberts and Nick Nolte!

8 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:36:30 PDT by ftrader
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To: sigi

This guy WAS on "Coast to Coast AM" the new name for Art Bell show last night. He was very persuasive but the Z's got the best of me half way thru.

9 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:37:26 PDT by Digger
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To: metalbird1

Public Service Announcement: How to tell if your cow has "Mad Cow Disease". Click Here

10 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:45:25 PDT by Deadeye Division
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To: Deadeye Division

Thanks, I've seen it before. But since you do mention Mad Cow Disease, Robert Cohen {author of this post} states that there was an incidence of it in Alabama only recently which has been covered up.

11 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:54:10 PDT by metalbird1
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To: metalbird1

I drink 4+ gal. of whole milk a week plus about a gallon of ice cream and i'll keep right on doing it, what's supposedly in the milk can't be 1% of the multitude of so called carcinigins that I consume on a regular basis and have all my life. As far as i'm concerned they keep your immune system on ready alert and healthy. I haven't been sick since I was 8 years old and that was 44 years ago, heck, i've never even had the flew.

12 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:55:28 PDT by dalereed
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To: metalbird1

bold off

13 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:55:56 PDT by slowry
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To: slowry

once more with feeling

14 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:56:47 PDT by slowry
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To: metalbird1

Thanks, I've seen it before. But since you do mention Mad Cow Disease, Robert Cohen {author of this post} states that there was an incidence of it in Alabama only recently which has been covered up.

That weren't no mad cow! Billy Jean just got mad at Elmer and wupped on him a bit.

15 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:58:35 PDT by Junior
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To: dalereed

correction, that was 54 years ago.

16 Posted on 06/07/2000 13:59:58 PDT by dalereed
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To: dalereed

More power to you.
{Were you ever one of those folks in the milk moustache commercials?}

17 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:00:06 PDT by metalbird1
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To: metalbird1

Nope but maybe I should be. Over a lifetime i've probably bought enough milk to pay for a dairy.

18 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:03:13 PDT by dalereed
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To: metalbird1, all

Certainly worth looking into why this WAS occuring in all the national brands but here is a bit of info from a real authentic dairyland cheesehead...The reputable companies no longer allow rBGH milk to be sold under their names. Look on your jug. If it doesnt say rBGH free then grab the brand next to it because that one probably does.

19 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:03:18 PDT by gnarledmaw
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To: metalbird1

Another try.

As a caller last night said, we're the only species (well, I think he said "mammal") who drinks milk after being weaned, and drinks the milk of other species.

After practically living at Wendy's the last few years, one month ago I went vegetarian, non-dairy. I feel a lot better, get up earlier without effort.

20 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:04:50 PDT by slowry
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To: Joe Montana

FYI

21 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:08:19 PDT by Al B.
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To: slowry

What sources do you use for Calcium and Protein?

22 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:08:20 PDT by Ticonderoga
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To: metalbird1

Thanks for posting this. I had forgotten I need to pick up a couple of gallons today. I'm one of those people on the high protein, low carb diet. I've lost 10 lbs and unlike vegetarians I won't look like a refugee from a concentration camp over time.

23 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:10:20 PDT by Varda
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To: Varda

Will the cleverness never cease.
Yeah, I just bet you've lost weight drinking milk, with its fat content. And even 2% is not much of an advantage over whole at 3-something percent.

24 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:23:04 PDT by metalbird1
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To: dalereed

I drink 4+ gal. of whole milk a week plus about a gallon of ice cream and i'll keep right on doing it,

Wow, I only drink 2+ gal. a week. Real milk, not the lite stuff... If I ever had to give up milk you might as well just shoot me.

25 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:25:03 PDT by AFreeBird
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To: metalbird1

Glad I don't drink milk.

Corruption really has completely permiated our country hasn't it?

26 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:30:23 PDT by heavyd
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To: metalbird1

Just more Animal Rights bulls#!t. Don't these people realize that everything gives lab animals cancer.

I have boxed, kickboxed, played football, played soccer, grew up with a brother, fought like an animal while in grade school and I have broken exactly one bone, my left pinky finger. I have been drinking milk since I was born, I will not quit now.

27 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:34:48 PDT by Double Tap
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To: metalbird1

Actually- your right- milk is not on the low carb diet- but cream and butter are. I am on the diet- I have lost 20 pounds in 28 days. But milk is a no no. I can put all the cream in my coffee that I want (and I add butter to the filter before brewing- old restaraunt trick)- but no sugar or sugar substitutes though.

28 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:38:07 PDT by Burkeman1
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To: AFreeBird

We haven't touched store bought milk in years. I wouldn't mind some right out of the teat. We also stay away from aspartame (Equal,Nutrasweet)...see www.dorman.com. I recommend staying away from water with fluoride and fluoride toothpaste (see. www.nofluoride.com).

29 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:40:50 PDT by Ozark Patriot
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To: AFreeBird

We haven't touched store bought milk in years. I wouldn't mind some right out of the teat. We also stay away from aspartame (Equal,Nutrasweet)...see www.dorman.com. I recommend staying away from water with fluoride and fluoride toothpaste (see. www.nofluoride.com).

30 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:41:19 PDT by Ozark Patriot
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To: heavyd

Corruption really has completely permiated our country hasn't it?

Yeah, Peta says to drink beer, not milk!

Makes for an interesting time out on the road, what with all those ex-milk drinkers and all weaving around. Most of the ex-milk drinkers seem to prefer the middle of the road as their half.

31 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:42:40 PDT by Ole Okie
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To: Double Tap

"Just more Animal Rights bulls#!t."

The animal rights I am referring to is people.
Nice try at the spin, but the "animal rights" you are talking about has nothing to do with injecting a genetically-engineered growth hormone into cows, okayed by a corrupt FDA, for the profit motive of Monsanto--the same folks who brought us Agent Orange, Nutra-Sweet, and genetically-engineered seeds.

32 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:47:23 PDT by metalbird1
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To: Burkeman1

Whatever works.

33 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:51:08 PDT by metalbird1
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To: heavyd

Hi, heavyd

"Corruption really has completely permiated our country hasn't it?"

Yep, it's a minefield.

34 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:54:05 PDT by metalbird1
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To: metalbird1

I haven't drunk milk in years -- since I learned that the government poisons it with chemicals that make people write silly stuff on Free Republic.

35 Posted on 06/07/2000 14:58:16 PDT by Whilom
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To: Whilom

Amazing, I post a little piece on milk and all the shills come out of the woodwork {hi, Whilom}.
There must be more than a profit motive at stake here, then; for example, a de-population mechanism. Then again, that would only make sense with a company intending to use food as a weapon by controlling crop production with their seeds {and their past m.o. with Agent Orange}.

36 Posted on 06/07/2000 15:08:37 PDT by metalbird1
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To: dalereed

"I drink 4+ gal. of whole milk a week plus about a gallon of ice cream and i'll keep right on doing it, what's supposedly in the milk can't be 1% of the multitude of so called carcinigins that I consume on a regular basis and have all my life. As far as i'm concerned they keep your immune system on ready alert and healthy. I haven't been sick since I was 8 years old and that was 44 years ago, heck, i've never even had the flew."

You probably haven't heard about narcinigins. These evil substances convert normal people into narcs.

And boy, if you've ever had the flew you know it's no joke...

--Boris

37 Posted on 06/07/2000 15:17:40 PDT by boris
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To: Ole Okie

Ha,between the drunks and old dudes and them mighty important people in big hurry,the highway can certainly be an adventure.Thats why I live where the cows outnumber the people.

Milk has always given me indigestion and beer...I don't know(never tasted pee) but I would bet that if you chilled human urine,it would taste just like beer!But hey,thats just my opinion.

Now,news that the federal government,in collusion with some giant corporations would endanger the entire milk drinking population with a higher incidence rate for cancer,which by the way has exploded recently,smacks of more than profit motivation as Metalbird states above.And quite frankly Pisses me off!

38 Posted on 06/07/2000 15:44:13 PDT by heavyd
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To: boris

Dale is a pilot,he just jumbled his words a bit in that lactose induced fog he must live in. ;-}

39 Posted on 06/07/2000 15:49:32 PDT by heavyd
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To: metalbird1

You're wrong. It works. Ask someone you know who is dieting.

40 Posted on 06/07/2000 15:58:24 PDT by Varda
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To: heavyd

"Now,news that the federal government,in collusion with some giant corporations would endanger the entire milk drinking population with a higher incidence rate for cancer,which by the way has exploded recently,smacks of more than profit motivation..."

Not to dismiss, that until Monsanto recently unloaded their Nutra-Sweet {aspartame} subsidiary, they had their tentacles firmly entwined around the diet soft drink industry as well.
Q: Is Monsanto America's answer to I.G. Farben?

41 Posted on 06/07/2000 16:01:36 PDT by metalbird1
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To: metalbird1

I, and my three kids, go through about 8 gallons a week, plus ice cream, cheese, yougurt, and lots of custard pie. Fortunately it's all fresh, raw, goat's milk. Not a BST in sight. Sorry about the rest of you. Too bad about my wife, as well, who for genetic reasons can't tolerate much milk product at all. She makes the cheese, yougurt, ice cream, and custard pie for the rest of us, though. Good sport.

42 Posted on 06/07/2000 16:06:33 PDT by arcane
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To: Varda

I don't have to ask. Burkeman1 at post 28 responded to me without asking.
You two fight it out.

43 Posted on 06/07/2000 16:08:36 PDT by metalbird1
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To: arcane

I hear what you're saying, though your goat's milk is the same as drinking non-BGH cow's milk: it still contains naturally-occurring hormones, although certainly in lower concentrations.
I wouldn't suspect you all are getting a free ride, but something's gotta punch your ticket, eventually.
Just for old time's sake, you might consider lurking a bit at notmilk.com. He may even mention goat's milk there.
Regards,

44 Posted on 06/07/2000 16:18:52 PDT by metalbird1
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To: Burkeman1

I was unaware that there is only one low-carb diet/high protein. A quick search of the web shows several that I was not familiar with. Anyway, milk is on the diet I'm using. Milk has about 12 grams of simple Carb. per cup . This diet is heavy on chicken and fish and restrictive on grain based foods. The bottom line is this diet works as do dozens of others.

45 Posted on 06/07/2000 16:35:48 PDT by Varda
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To: metalbird1

I checked it out. The guy hates milk. The only thing I could find about goats is that they're putting spider genes in some of them. I already knew that. The fact is tha raw milk is an excellent food product. Most people are not in a position to have any. I'm lucky. When they passed the law against selling raw milk in my state, a big dairyman who used to sell lots of it tried to force a warning on pasturized milk that it had "no known food value." Didn't get far.

My goats get organic food and no additives, and their milk is pure as the driven snow, and healthy as all get out. If you have digestive problems with lactose, you obviously shouldn't and wouldn't drink it. I suppose there are other health concerns in the case of a few people, but those things aside - one should drink as much raw milk from a trusted source as possible. Cows or goats, it doesn't matter.

46 Posted on 06/07/2000 16:37:20 PDT by arcane
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To: metalbird1

Everything is poison, and nothing is poison.... Think about that for awhile before you pull another alar scare.

47 Posted on 06/07/2000 16:43:48 PDT by Scot-free
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To: arcane

"one should drink as much raw milk from a trusted source as possible."

I question the validity of that statement.
That aside, I have no intention of raining on your parade.

48 Posted on 06/07/2000 16:45:56 PDT by metalbird1
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To: arcane

The fact is tha raw milk is an excellent food product.

I drank milk once, and I will most assuredly die someday.

Coincidence?

Don't think so!

49 Posted on 06/07/2000 16:48:19 PDT by BikerTrash
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To: Scot-free

"Everything is poison, and nothing is poison...."

That's what looks like a truism on the face of it, but with a half-second more thought is blatantly false, and is what is commonly done in debunking techniques: reducing the argument to an absurdity.

"Think about that for awhile before you pull another alar scare."

As opposed to whatever the "alar (insecticide) scare" was all about, this is documented.

50 Posted on 06/07/2000 16:55:59 PDT by metalbird1
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To: metalbird1

"Q: Is Monsanto America's answer to I.G. Farben?"

Wouldn't be at all surprised,reckon any heirs of Prescott own any of Monsanto?

51 Posted on 06/07/2000 16:59:46 PDT by heavyd
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To: metalbird1

Sounds like Elian, since the milk ration gets cut off at an early age in Cuba, will outlive all of us.

52 Posted on 06/07/2000 17:01:50 PDT by CubicleGuy
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To: Ticonderoga

"What sources do you use for Calcium and Protein?"

The natural sources for these are dark leafy veg's and beans, respectively.

53 Posted on 06/07/2000 17:02:47 PDT by metalbird1
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To: metalbird1

Did you go nuts from drinking milk or were you born that way.

54 Posted on 06/07/2000 17:06:15 PDT by Bloody Reaper
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To: Bloody Reaper

Did you read the post or are you just generally a smartass.

55 Posted on 06/07/2000 17:14:10 PDT by metalbird1
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To: metalbird1

Luddite scaremongering.

How much BST causes cancer in cows? How much causes cancer in humans, if at all? How much BST do cows get? How much BST ends up in the milk? No reference is made to these questions, let far alone any attempt to answer them.

The anti-BST campaign is strictly luddite in origin. It is led by the owners of small dairies, for the sole reason that BST makes milk inexpensive for consumers. This means that dairies must employ economies of scale to turn a profit, which means that smaller dairy farms don't do as well. Health concerns are far down on their list, somewhere behind increased funding for the Dept. of Agriculture and foreign aid to Tonga.

I refuse to eat Ben & Jerry's because of their stand against BST.

56 Posted on 06/07/2000 17:22:29 PDT by Physicist (sterner@sterner.hep.upenn.edu)
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To: metalbird1

There's also a real crisis from dihydrogen monoxide.

Read all about it

57 Posted on 06/07/2000 17:35:06 PDT by xorch
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To: Physicist

Luddite, huh...
Appears to be your fettish word of the day.
The flaw with your small vs. large dairy farm theme is small ones can use BGH just as well as the large ones.
Do you find nothing strange, for what you depict as Luddite, the implicit conflict of interest between Monsanto and FDA, or the increased incidences of breast and prostate cancers, or the illegitimate clinical studies re: BGH?
And the reason I care whether you go to Ben & Jerry's is {there isn't one}...

58 Posted on 06/07/2000 17:45:37 PDT by metalbird1
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To: xorch

Thanks, Xork, but I've had more chem courses than most chem majors.

59 Posted on 06/07/2000 17:48:12 PDT by metalbird1
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To: Varda

I am only allowed 20 grams of carbs per day so I try to save em for vegatables with my meals.

60 Posted on 06/07/2000 18:10:37 PDT by Burkeman1
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To: metalbird1

RE: The following exchange --

"Everything is poison, and nothing is poison...."

That's what looks like a truism on the face of it, but with a half-second more thought is blatantly false, and is what is commonly done in debunking techniques: reducing the argument to an absurdity.

"Think about that for awhile before you pull another alar scare."

As opposed to whatever the "alar (insecticide) scare" was all about, this is documented.

Dear Metaturd,

Please explain why the maxim is an absurdity. I think it's brilliant. What it says is that anything can be poisonous if the concentration is high enough, and that the converse is also true. What's false about that?

FYI, the maxim was taught to my father by a toxicology professor. Are you a toxicologist?

With respect to the alar scare, it too was "documented," so I'm not impressed with your documentation. Who the hell is this Cohen character anyway? What are his biases, and where did he get his information? FYI, the link to "chapter three" of the book isn't working.

61 Posted on 06/07/2000 18:24:59 PDT by Scot-free
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To: arcane

 

We have visited friends that have goats. Really lovely little critters and much more intelligent than cows. I still remember the goat cheese they served up. So delicious with a slice of dead ripe tomato,  and many times better than goat cheese I have bought. 

Their goat cheese was as good as very high quality imported feta cheese. (made from sheep's milk)

62 Posted on 06/07/2000 18:34:12 PDT by dennisw
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To: metalbird1

Luddite, huh... Appears to be your fettish word of the day.

A whole one reply. I'm a regular obsessive-compulsive about it today, aren't I? Who needs internet porn when I can say "Luddite" on FreeRepublic? I said it again...ohhh yeahhhh... Tomorrow's word is "trust-buster".

Do you find nothing strange, for what you depict as Luddite, the implicit conflict of interest between Monsanto and FDA, or the increased incidences of breast and prostate cancers, or the illegitimate clinical studies re: BGH?

And the reason why you draw any connection between shenanigans on Monsanto's part with increased breast or prostate cancer is: {there isn't any}...

63 Posted on 06/07/2000 18:43:29 PDT by Physicist (sterner@sterner.hep.upenn.edu)
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To: metalbird1

Yeah, I just bet you've lost weight drinking milk, with its fat content. And even 2% is not much of an advantage over whole at 3-something percent.

Hmmm.... My diet is 1/4 to 1/3 fat, and I'm in good shape. What gives? I'm in my early thirties, and at 6' 0", I weigh in at 185 pounds. Personally, I think the reason so many people are fat is that they consume too many simple carbohydrates and sit on their butts all day.

64 Posted on 06/07/2000 18:43:45 PDT by Scot-free
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To: Scot-free

As I said, you have a smart mouth, which you started with me in your first post and have continued.
What's wrong with that "brilliant" maxim?
As I also said, it reduces the argument to an absurdity, whether it was said to your father by a professor of his doesn't make it so. {BTW, dioxin is so poisonous, any amount is considered toxic.}
While I am not a toxicologist, I have had toxicology.
What's wrong with your comparing this to the alar incident? Because there is no connection of one to the other except by your choosing.
Mind if I say the Warren Report was right, that Oswald shot JFK, because Booth shot Lincoln? That's your same logic.

65 Posted on 06/07/2000 18:45:50 PDT by metalbird1
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To: Scot-free

FYI, the maxim was taught to my father by a toxicology professor.

The way my dad (a chemical engineer who worked on pollution control at Bethlehem Steel) always put it is, "there are no toxic substances; there are only toxic concentrations."

66 Posted on 06/07/2000 18:46:40 PDT by Physicist (sterner@sterner.hep.upenn.edu)
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To: metalbird1

Yes, I read it and the guy is wacko. Can't say much more for the person who posted that trash.

67 Posted on 06/07/2000 18:47:30 PDT by Bloody Reaper
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To: Scot-free

I might also add, using blue and red typeface and name-calling don't serve to reinforce your argument.

Since the link doesn't work, try going directly to the site, notmilk.com, for the answers to your questions.

68 Posted on 06/07/2000 18:51:46 PDT by metalbird1
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To: Physicist

"And the reason why you draw any connection between shenanigans on Monsanto's part with increased breast or prostate cancer is: {there isn't any}..."

As a scientist {you are a physicist, right?}, you do understand the term empirical evidence, right?

Don't forget to drink your three glasses of milk today, it's nature's food. :)

69 Posted on 06/07/2000 18:59:08 PDT by metalbird1
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To: Scot-free

"Hmmm.... My diet is 1/4 to 1/3 fat, and I'm in good shape. What gives? I'm in my early thirties, and at 6' 0", I weigh in at 185 pounds. Personally, I think the reason so many people are fat is that they consume too many simple carbohydrates and sit on their butts all day."

What gives? You probably have a pretty good metabolism rate {and are young yet} and remain active/exercise.

70 Posted on 06/07/2000 19:03:44 PDT by metalbird1
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To: dennisw

I have two goats, a wether and a doe. I am going to get the doe bred in the fall, and then begin milking her ASAP.

71 Posted on 06/07/2000 19:13:11 PDT by B Knotts
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To: metalbird1

you do understand the term empirical evidence, right?

Sure do. And I've seen zero. Where's the beef?

72 Posted on 06/07/2000 19:19:32 PDT by Physicist (sterner@sterner.hep.upenn.edu)
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 Bold off?

73 Posted on 06/07/2000 19:24:08 PDT by Razz
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To: Physicist

See post 6, this thread. Cohen was on Mike Siegel's show last night for five hours.

74 Posted on 06/07/2000 19:27:06 PDT by metalbird1
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