Reform Party members supporting Buchanan say the former Republican defeated his opponent by a nearly 2-to-1 margin in a primary ballot count. Supporters of party founder Ross Perot insist fraudulent ballots corrupted the tally, and say Hagelin is the real nominee.
At stake are $12.6 million in taxpayer funds, a figure based on Perot's performance in the 1996 general election.
``The FEC simply does not want to make this kind of decision, but whatever decision it does make, the other side will challenge it in federal court and that's where it will end up,'' said Jim Mangia, a party activist backing Hagelin.
John Duffy, an attorney for the Buchanan faction, expressed confidence that the money would go to his candidate. Hagelin neither won a majority of convention delegates earlier this month, ``nor has he won the popularity poll,'' Duffy said.
``Time is of the essence in every campaign. Every day that we do not have available the money we ought to have available is obviously a problem,'' he said. ``But I think the courts will recognize — and I think the FEC will recognize — that important fact and they will work diligently to get us the money as soon as possible, despite whatever obstacles Mr. Hagelin throws in the way.''
Past power struggles led the Reform Party to court once before. In March, a federal judge settled the party chairmanship by ruling in favor of Pat Choate, Perot's 1996 running mate, over Jack Gargan. Choate stepped down shortly afterward, citing family illness.
On Tuesday, Choate's successor, Buchanan backer Gerry Moan, sued Hagelin in federal court for claiming to be the party's true nominee.
Hagelin, meanwhile, plans to campaign regardless of whether he gets federal funding, thanks to help from his millionaire running mate, high-tech entrepreneur Nat Goldhaber.
The federal money ``will not make or break my campaign,'' Hagelin said at a news conference Tuesday in Los Angeles as he announced plans to raise funds in Silicon Valley.
"Gentlemen, start your lawsuits.. I mean, engines..."
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To: gcul
Remember gcul, your kind will be the first to burn if your side wins. Western civilization back to the Dark Ages.
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To: A+Bert
I am back to disagreeing with you again. I bumped you yesterday for your comments about Tiger Woods. But that was just minutes before the thread got pulled. So fortunately, there is no record of our agreeing with each other.
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To: gcul
Hey Gcul. The next time that you post, USE THE CORRECT TITLE OF THE ARTICLE INSTEAD OF MAKING UP YOUR OWN.
Sounds like you are a fruadulent type of guy. Why am I not surprised.
The real AP title to this story is..."FEC to decide on reform party money"
You doofus!
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To: gcul
Pat was really going to press his law suit, but somebody stole his steam iron.
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To: WeThePeople...
FEC Chairman Darryl Wold said it is possible that both will be eligible for the money.
That statement from the FEC Chariman is the most newsworthy piece of information in this whole article. Everything else is simply a rehash of what we already know.
If the original title is not descriptive, I will use a title that is. This is the same policy that Drudge, and every newswire uses..... Doofus!
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To: Common Tator
I think Pat has alot of gall in taking this to court. Oh,he had it removed,never mind. :)
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To: A+Bert
"the first to burn"
I doubt you got the strength to strike a match let alone your enemy. Now get back to shuffelboard with your friends. LOL.
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To: Big Ezy
I doubt you got the strength to strike a match let alone your enemy.
You may wish to retract that insult. A+'s resume in those areas is quite impressive.
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To: gcul
Here's what Iowa is going to do: They will pick a name out of a hat to see who gets listed under the Reform Party spot on the ballot - the other will be on the ballot as 'nominated by petition'
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To: A+Bert
There is a fatal flaw in the story as written. Minority parties do petition after they get on in ten states. That would include the Yogic Flyers, i.e. Hagelin's meditators in the NAtural Law Party. Of course this rule does not apply to the Reform Party since it is a MAJOR Party, not a minority Party. AP realy needs to do better work.
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To: gcul
I lucked out on that one. My unblemished reputation remains.
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To: Keith in Iowa
Here's what Iowa is going to do: They will pick a name out of a hat to see who gets listed under the Reform Party spot on the ballot
They're doing a similar thing in Montana ...
Source: Lottery To Choose Reform Candidate
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To: Keith in Iowa
Iowa- corn and Harkins, need I say more.
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To: A+Bert
The Moan/Buchanan faction have all the law on their side. As we'll see very shortly. The FEC and the courts are bound by law to act quickly to avoid the "irreparable harm" that would be caused by delaying the matching funds.
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To: major-pelham
to the Reform Party since it is a MAJOR Party
You are correct the Reform party is a Major Party. It's problem is that it is a very Minor Player.
What do you get when you cross Pat Buchanan with the Reform party?
I don't know what it looks like, but it's called a party pooper.
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To: mr.pink & A+Bert
Why not retract it for me?
Bert and I have been insulting eachother for years and he and I both have the scalps to prove it.
Maybe you and Bert can get up a twosome on shuffleboard. :)
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To: Keith in Iowa, Floyd
Iowa Will Pick One Reform Party Candidate
(Reuters) - The split in the national Reform Party has presented the states with a quandary: which presidential candidate should appear on the November ballot under the party's banner?
In Iowa, the decision will be made by Secretary of State Chet Culver, who on Thursday will select from two pieces of paper with the names of conservative firebrand Pat Buchanan and physicist John Hagelin.
Whoever is not selected will appear on the ballot as ``a candidate nominated by petition,'' Iowa spokesman Bob Galbraith said on Tuesday.
State law requires that third parties nominate only one candidate for each office, and letters explaining the situation went out to the candidates. Galbraith has heard nothing back.
``I think this is unprecedented in modern times,'' Doug Lewis of the nonpartisan Election Center said.
``This is sort of an unusual deal'' that other states may also have to contend with, regardless of who eventually is declared the official candidate, Lewis said.
Supporters of the two Reform Party candidates went their separate and acrimonious ways during the party convention in Long Beach, California, earlier this month.
------------------------------------------
I took this to mean that the Sectetary of State will evaluate each claim and make a decision based on which candidate has the most legitimate claim to the nomination. Are you telling me that this is a random drawing?
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To: gcul
Pat and the Reform Party are comparable to the Pathfinders. The advance guard for the Renewal of America against those who have been assaulting us for 50 years
Win BUCHANAN/FOSTER Win
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To: gcul
That's my impression & it's consistent with MT too ...
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To: Big Ezy, mr.pink
Yeah, Big E! You insult lots of people! Don't stop now!
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To: Big Ezy
Maybe you and Bert can get up a twosome on shuffleboard. :)
Shuffleboard?...it that the game where you are blindfolded and beat a stuffed animal with sticks until all the candy falls out?
If so, I'm in!!! ;o)
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To: Floyd
Except in my case I only tell the truth not lies like little ezy. The truth will set you free, Floyd. How do you like that creative originality.
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To: A+Bert
Keep Hope Alive, bert ...
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To: A+Bert
Iowa- corn and Harkins, need I say more.
LOL !
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To: Big Ezy
The FEC simply does not want to make this kind of decision
If Pat is so good at figuring out what the Dems and Pubies are up to and is such an expert at knowing what should be done about 'em, why couldn't he figure out Haglin and prevent him from doing this to the Patsie Party.
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To: Either/Or
Voters should decide these issues not the government.
Republicans and Democrats support the Four Horsemen of America's Apocalypse
- Americans fighting everyone's wars as Gurkhas for the New World Order and providing perpetual foreign aid.
- Americans swapping their jobs, factories and military capability for trade deficits and job insecurity.
- Americans accepting illegal immigrants from all over the world and providing taxpayer supported benefits plus failing to assimilate legal immigrants.
- Americans accepting the immorality of Clinton, the abortion of its children, and providing special rights and recognition for gay sexual practices.
- Bring our troops home from foreign NWO wars and end perpetual foreign aid and entangling alliances.
- Negotiate balanced trade agreements where our tariffs on others equals their tariffs on us and our jobs, factories and military technology stay here.
- Close our borders to illegal immigrants and provide legal immigrants an opportunity to assimilate and become Americans.
- Appoint Justices who will end the Court's dictatorial usurpation of issues that should be decided by the voters.
P.O. Box 1919
Merrifield, VA 22116-1919
703.734.2700
GOD BLESS AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST
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To: gcul
I don't trust at all the FEC to decide this. The FEC is made up of Democratic and Republican party hacks that would like nothing better than to cheat Pat Buchanan out the money he rightfully earned. Notice also the ominous comment of the FEC Chairman Darryl Wold that "both" candidates may be eligible for funds. This may be a tip off that the establishment may be planning to cheat Buchanan out of the funds he earned by dividing the 12 million between Buchanan and that Verney meatpuppet Heglin. If this happens, I swear I will never vote for the Republican party ever again.
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To: A+Bert
I'll bump that with 'loose lips sink ships'
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To: gcul
..... Any FEC action require votes from four of the six commission members....
I wonder what happens when the FEC votes are 3 to 3. With luck they then give the money back to the taxpayers. ..... I must be having a dream ... couldn't happen.
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To: Common Tator
It's all hype, Pat will get the check! Now tell us, what's your position going to be when he gets the check? I just like to move this along, maybe you'll have a limerick to go with your answer?
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To: Overmind
If this happens, I swear I will never vote for the Republican party ever again.
You won't anyway. I have had many Buchananites say that if Pat does not get on the ballot they would be voting for Nader, and some even said Gore.
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To: gcul
To be honest, I would rather vote for Ralph Nader than many Republican politiicians I know, however, I hate Gore and would never consider voting for him under any circumstances.
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To: gcul--Watch the Market.
When the oil crisis hits both Bush and Gore will pay a big penalty. A disaater is in the making. Watch the Market.
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To: Overmind
To be honest, I would rather vote for Ralph Nader than many Republican politiicians I know
This is not surprising to me or anyone else. It only confirms what many have been saying about Buchanan and his supporters for a long time.
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To: A+Bert
If you are talking about the predicted oil shortages in this winter's oil supply, don't expect a disaster before the first Tuesday in November.
And you can't blame Bush.
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To: gcul
As I noted on a previous thread, even if Hagelin doesn't get the money, he'll be able to cause enough delays to STOP Pat from getting the money while easily outspending Pat. While the brigades are getting all excited about some ho-hum school-teacher on the Buchanan ticket because she's a black women (can you say AFFIRMATION ACTION SELECTION?), they fail to notice the 'Ooomph' Hagelin's running mate brings to the "alernative" Reform party ticket. Both of the Reform "Party's nominees have "1% in the polls" , but only ONE set has the resources to get their name out in this election: HAGELIN/GOLDHABER--
NAT GOLDHABER of California
Reform Party/Natural Law Party
Vice Presidential Nominee
Goldhaber, an Internet entrepreneur, won the Reform Party splinter group's nomination for Vice President over Marxist political activist and perennial candidate Lenora Fulani by a convention vote of 120-66. Goldhaber is also Hagelin's VP running mate under the Natural Law Party banner. Goldhaber, the founder of the online Cybergold payment system, has a net worth estimated to be in excess of $100 million. He also has some government experience as a former aide to Pennsylvania's Lieutenant Governor. And, like Hagelin, Goldhaber has close ties to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and the Transcendental Meditation movement. Goldhaber is a 1973 graduate of Maharishi University. So much for eliminating the cult perception problems. With the wealthy Goldhaber as a running mate, Hagelin has made it clear his campaign should now have nearly all the money it needs for the general election effort. Goldhaber, 52, and his wife Marilyn have three sons. He is also a licensed pilot, owns two planes, and said he plans to use them for the campaign.
I'll be the first to admit both Hagelin and his running mate are kooky space cadets. But they're gonna be plagueing Pat in every state all the way up to November. And in the states where Buchanan has to run under another party's banner, Hagelin/Goldhaber will get more votes because they'll be under the "Reform Party" banner. Wait and see.
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To: gcul
Why not. He hasn't said a word about self suficiency. They are Middle East oilmen as well as Texas oil men. Gulf war proved that, Kosovo the continuing proof.
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To: Keith in Iowa
Buchanan is already on the ballot in almost every state except where the Hagelin-Perot crowd managed to deny the party members their right to vote. Buchanan will be on the ballot in all fifty states.
This Transendentalist Maharishi follower Hegalin will be on the ballot in a few states under the Natural Law ticket.
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To: duckln
No matter what their first name is.. Daffy or Donald.. or whatever, them ducklns are all the same. They do make the Succotash Suffer.
One thing you can say for Pat. He always has is his ducks in a row.
They are referred to as sittin' ducks.
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To: BillyBoy
"While the brigades are getting all excited about some ho-hum school-teacher on the Buchanan ticket because she's a black women (can you say AFFIRMATION ACTION SELECTION?)..."
Utterly insulting. This lady handled the media spin on Fox where you would have wet yourself. She is a constitutionalist, not hiding in the bushes like some on this forum.
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To: A+Bert
When the oil crisis hits both Bush and Gore will pay a big penalty. A disaater is in the making. Watch the Market.
As the governor of a state, GWB has no control of or culpability for any crisis in the oil market. I know Gore keeps trying to paint GWB as a Texas Big Oil tycoon, but the facts don't bear that out. GWB ran a couple of small oil companies years ago, but has not been involved in the oil industry since the late 1980's, at the most recent.
GORE, on the other hand, will have a LOT of explaining to do, with his hand-picked EPA chief and enviro-nazi writings, and his stock holding in Occidental Petroleum...
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To: CA Conservative
Oil and the Economy is going to be a big issue in this election whether the Dem-GOP likes it or not. Buchanan will toast both Bush-Gore over this issue.
Win Pat Win. Another 30 days and all hell is going to break loose.
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To: major-pelham
There is a fatal flaw in the story as written. Minority parties do petition after they get on in ten states. That would include the Yogic Flyers, i.e. Hagelin's meditators in the NAtural Law Party. Of course this rule does not apply to the Reform Party since it is a MAJOR Party, not a minority Party. AP realy needs to do better work.
Sorry, major, but you need to do YOUR homework. Even the lawsuit Moan filed against Hagelin defines the Reform Party as a minor party. A MAJOR party is one who received more than 25% of the popular vote in the last general election. A MINOR party is one that received more than 5% but less than 25%. So the rule DOES apply to Pat and/or Hagelin and the Reform Party...
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To: Overmind
If the FEC fraudulently withholds any of the money due the Buchanan money for any period of time wouldn't they be subject to a civil suit, including treble damages and attorney fees along with the $12.6 million in federal funds? It would be poetic justice to see the FEC go down in flames.
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To: UnBlinkingEye
Correction:
If the FEC fraudulently withholds any of the money due the Buchanan campaign for any period of time wouldn't they be subject to a civil suit, including treble damages and attorney fees along with the $12.6 million in federal funds? It would be poetic justice to see the FEC go down in flames.
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To: UnBlinkingEye
If the FEC fraudulently withholds any of the money due the Buchanan money for any period of time wouldn't they be subject to a civil suit, including treble damages and attorney fees along with the $12.6 million in federal funds?
The key to your question is in the word "fraudulently". If the FEC withheld the money from Pat based on the current dispute, it would be impossible to prove fraud or malice on the part of the FEC. The claim to the money is disputed, and there are legitimate questions as to the methods Pat used to obtain the nomination; questions he refused to resolve by releasing the names of the people requesting ballots and providing the supporting documentation. If the FEC were to decide that both parties had a legitimate claim and to divide the money, Pat would be well advised to take what he can get and run with it.
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