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Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
September 8, 2000 Presidential Tracking Poll
In the race for the White House, George W. Bush has a slight lead over Al Gore in the popular vote. In Portrait of America's latest 3-day average Bush has 44.1% while Gore has 41.5%; Ralph Nader, 2.6%, Pat Buchanan, 1.0%, Harry Browne .9%, Howard Phillips .1%, and John Hagelin .2%. These results from a nightly Portrait of America Presidential Tracking Poll reflect interviews conducted September 5, 6 and 7.
bttt
Portrait of America | Presidential Tracking Poll
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Thank you! It is almost at a four point spread which I will gladly take!
Dr:
Just a suggestion, may want to play a little in the "HTML Sandbox". Thats a thread that shows you the ABC's of posting items from websites and the like. I found it extremely helpful. Only started doing it a couple of weeks ago myself. If you can't find it, let me know and I'll send you the link. If I was really proficient I would have embedded it as a link in this post....but then again I'm a rookie too.
G Man
Correction -- 3 point spread -- wishful thinking!
This poll is, if nothing else, remarkably CONSISTENT.
Michael
It's more like a 2.6% spread, actually.
By my math its a 2.6 point spread. In the Reuters/Zogby world of rounding, they'd probably call it 4 points though.
:>)
This poll is, if nothing else, remarkably CONSISTENT.
Yes it is. Recently GWB has been leading Gore by about two points, and he has also held about a two-point lead in Favorability rating. This consistency gives me great hope, but of course two points could disappear overnight. There's plenty o' work to be done!
Bush is right where he wants to be!
Plenty of work to be done and plenty of room for more volunteers in the local GOP campaign offices. I was surprised to learn the number of volunteers in ours who had heard of FR, but didn't know how to find it.
"Second try at this..."
And a good one at that. Thanks.
As to the numbers, considering the shellacking the W has received, this is still fine though the next couple of days will show more while the past two days sinks in. Oh, to have a balanced press....
Maybe if Bush shifted the benefits of his tax cut plan away from the wealthy to the middle class ($30,000 - $200,000), he could win the election.
But then again, the big money people behind him (e.g.; 237 Regents, 600 Pionners) would abandon him.
Consistent is the right word. Based on the flury of polls yesterday there was no consistency or pattern other than the worst Poll spread (Zogby) in favor of Gore was presented first for maximum impact on the press and Washington Post/ABC was show last because it represented a tie at 47/47. Thank God for FreeRepublic or we would all be subject to the spin of the Main Stream Media & become totally discouraged
Class warfare is so passe (that's e aigue).
Maybe if Algore told the truth some day...
Nah, it'll never happen as long as he keeps drinking iced tea and you keep drinking Koolaid.
Nice work, Roscoe.
Class warfare is so passe
Bush gives the middle class ($30,000 - $200,000) a very small tax cut and the wealthy a very big tax cut.
Then when the middle class complain ($30,000 - $200,000) the wealthy cry class warfare.
How about Bush giving the middle class ($30,000 - $200,000), that's you also, a very big tax cut, and the wealthy a very small tax cut, then when the wealthy complain, the middle class can claim that the wealthy are engaging in class warfare.
Thank God for FreeRepublic or we would all be subject to the spin of the Main Stream Media & become totally discouraged
Yea I know what you mean. I have spent allot of time calming down Republican friends of mine who think Bush is toast by showing him this poll and explaining the methodology behind it. They don't use this site because they think we are all gun rackin' rednecks setting the agenda for the next militia meeting. I have personally told them that if you want the news without the liberal spin and conservative critique, come here and join in.
Tuco, you are an idiot and I should know better than to respond. But for the benefit of those who may not know you , and who might actually be gullible enough to believe your tripe....
Bush gives the middle class ($30,000 - $200,000) a very small tax cut and the wealthy a very big tax cut.
The bush tax plan is actually a graduated tax cut, much in favor of the lower classes vs the "rich", in terms of percentage anyways. I am smack dab in the middle class, and I would get a very nice tax cut indeed...$3000 aint chump change, especially when I haven't paid nearly as much into taxes as the so called "rich".. they get a CRAP tax cut as far as I am concerned, considering how much they have paid in taxes overall.. hell, they SUBSIDIZE the rest of us..
Substitute the word "Jews" for "rich", and you can see where this type of "X-warfare" will get you, Mr. Adolf Tuco.
Maybe if Bush shifted the benefits of his tax cut plan away from the wealthy to the middle class ($30,000 - $200,000), he could win the election.
You mean treat the rich unfairly? In other words, you want Bush to be a Democrat. Sorry, don't think so.
Yea I know what you mean. I have spent allot of time calming down Republican friends of mine who think Bush is toast by showing him this poll and explaining the methodology behind it.
Also keep in mind that the huge populations of California and NY skew the polls. Even if Gore were to lead by a few percentage points in the final popular vote count on election day, Bush will still get the electoral votes needed to win the race (IMHO)
The bush tax plan is actually a graduated tax cut, much in favor of the lower classes vs the "rich", in terms of percentage anyways.
No Bush's tax cut plan is a graduated tax cut plan for the rich.
I am smack dab in the middle class, and I would get a very nice tax cut indeed...$3000 aint chump change,
It's possible you could save $3000 under Bush's plan, however the typical middle class family ($30,000 - $200,000) will be saving only around $350.
Two questions: are you sure about your calculations? Are you recieving EIC (a welfare program)?
In percentage terms, the Bush tax cut gives the greatest cut to low-income and the least cut to high-income. High-income taxpayers actually end up paying a higher proportion of the total tax burden after the cut. How is this unfair to low- and middle-earners? How?
Your graph would look better if you could include vertical lines, maybe shading every other column so we could discern weeks. Of course, a week can be any 7 days, but we do live by weeks and it would be helpful visually.
A family of four earning $36,000 or less will get a 100% tax cut under the Bush plan. They will pay ZERO taxes. How does that benefit the "Rich"?????
"No Bush's tax cut plan is a graduated tax cut plan for the rich."
If true (which I won't concede to a clsss-warfare Democrat like you), I say "So what?"
It would be good for the general economy as the "rich" get more $$ freed up to spend on things made by the middle class. Everybody wins. The mistakes Democrats like you make is that you seem to think any money the "rich" get to keep ends up in a mattress somewhere. That shows very shallow thinking on your part.
But hey! Nobody ever accused Democrats like you of "thinking." The fact that Gore has the "panty vote" sewn up is proof positive...
You mean treat the rich unfairly? In other words, you want Bush to be a Democrat.
Sorry, don't think so.
You mean treat the middle class unfairly? In other words, you want Bush to be a country-club Republican.
Sorry, don't think so.
In your top graph, the 7 day trend of the yellow line and the 4 day trend of the blue line are clearly very good.
A family of four earning $36,000 or less will get a 100% tax cut under the Bush plan. They will pay ZERO taxes. How does that benefit the "Rich"?????
If you're a family of 4 earning $36,000, you are on the bottom of the middle class.
What about the rest of the middle class ($30,000 -$200,000)?
You mean treat the middle class unfairly?
Bzzzz!!! Wrong!!! But thank you for playing. Treating the middle class the same as the upper class (heck, actually BETTER than the upper class) is not unfair, no matter how many times you may bleat that line out.
It would be good for the general economy as the "rich" get more $$ freed up to spend on things made by the middle class. Everybody wins. The mistakes Democrats like you make is that you seem to think any money the "rich" get to keep ends up in a mattress somewhere. That shows very shallow thinking on your part.
It would be good for the general economy if the "middle class" get more $$ freed up to spend on things owned by the rich. Everybody wins. The mistakes country-club Republicans like you make is that you seem to think any money the "middle class" get to keep ends up in a mattress somewhere. That shows very shallow thinking on your part.
Hey Tuco, Arent you that dumb-ass anti-hero mexican in the Clint Eastwood movie "The Good, Bad, and the Ugly"? Let's see Clint was the 'Good' that other tall guy was the 'Bad' that would leave you as being the 'Stupid'.
Bush is not GIVING anything. He is TAKING LESS from those who give the most. His tax plan is incredibly fair to all concerned, especially the poor.
Where do you get your definition of "Middle Class"? It sure isn't Gore's. Last time I heard, if you make $100,000 per year, you're in the upper 5% of all Americans.
Sorry, Taco-butt-buddy. You are attempting the tried 'n' true 'Crap technique of shifting the framing of the argument when you get nailed. I choose not to engage Clymers who pull this crap.
Buh-bye.
BUMP
20 % of adults pay 80 % of the taxes. But you want to cut them out of the tax cut ?
If thats not true, then how much of the tax cut should they get? Al Gore says ZERO. (In fact , he pretty much keeps the next 30 % locked out too (they get back far less than their percentage warrants))
So what is it, you Marxist numbskull? What percentage? (Dont dodge the question, Commie man)
Bush gives the middle class ($30,000 - $200,000) a very small tax cut and the wealthy a very big tax cut.
Are you speaking in relative or absolute terms? For example, in absolute terms the wealthy will get a bigger tax cut.
.5% of Bill Gates' taxes are greater than 100% of mine. Therefore, my taxes could be cut to 0%, and Gates' taxes could be cut by .5%. By your reasoning, Gates would get a bigger tax cut.
By the way, you could replace Bill Gates with Al Gore in my last example. Al is clearly the powerful, and I guess I'm just one of the people...
Treating the middle class the same as the upper class (heck, actually BETTER than the upper class) is not unfair, no matter how many times you may bleat that line out.
Under Bush's tax cut plan, many middle class people ($30,000 - $300,000) will get virtually no tax break.
Remember, no one is disputing that the average middle class family will get $350 in tax cuts. One FReeper bragged he is going to get a $3,000 tax cut, you might be getting less than the $350 average, to average things out.
Notice that Bush has not released the actual tax cut plan, just some appoximations.
BTW - the typical middle class payroll taxes will be over $500 higher on average over the next 10 years. That leaves the average middle-class taxes $150 higher under Bush's tax cut plan.
It would be great if EVERYBODY was treated the same. Of course you flaming liberals like to engage in "social engineering" through the tax code to buy votes from constituency groups and promote behavior that you find beneficial to your agenda.
The left-wing agenda is not about fairness or compassion, it is about how to gain and hold power over your fellow citizens at ANY cost to our country.
Good morning!
This is good news. We gained 50% of our lead over yesterday. The trend this week has all been good.
Now where are our sparring partners this morning? Not a single negative post from any of the Clymer Commission(tm) so far today. And I really wanted to jump a few pinkos this morning.
Oh well.
Chicago press was all positive this morning. The Sun-Times had a full page, front page picture of Ron and Nancy, and the Tribune's top story was about how our local politicians are taking the state property tax rebate and taxing it as income.
Guess I'll have to wait awhile for something to make me mad today. My co-workers will be most grateful.
High-income taxpayers actually end up paying a higher proportion of the total tax burden after the cut. How is this unfair to low- and middle-earners? How?
You're not adding in payroll taxes (e.g.; SS and Medicare).
Add payroll taxes in, and you find that the wealthy pay just about the same federal tax rate as the middle class.
Very good point about CA and NY -- not to mention they do not poll heavily in flyover country because we might scew the polls. That means that Gov Bush gets our 8 electoral votes in OK and we never show up in the polling data for nationwide polling. There are supposedly 13 states including ours (and Texas) like that and put together we do add up to a nice tidy sum of electoral votes. Actually when you throw in Texas to that equation of 13 flyover states, it is even more impressive.
Would like to see a breakout of these national polls to see what states these people represent that are polled.
Are you speaking in relative or absolute terms? For example, in absolute terms the wealthy will get a bigger tax cut.
Gates will get $100s of millions of dollars in tax cuts, if you are a typical middle-class family ($30,000 - $200,000), you will get about $350 in tax cuts.
"......because they think we are all gun rackin' rednecks...."
It's funny you mention "rednecks". Before FR was what it is now, I was involved in several AOL political discussion boards, and the liberals called us "rednecks". We used to laugh about it and formed our own "Redneck Republican Club" - I think I was RR #18! We wore that badge proudly! JulieRR21 is Redneck Republican #21, I believe!
There were several others that became regular FReepers, too! After one of the members kept posting FR links to the AOL boards, I decided to check out FR for myself. Think I made my very first post at FR at the end of 1996! It was to Deb - she replied, "Bite me!"
Add payroll taxes in, and you find that the wealthy pay just about the same federal tax rate as the middle class
Now that is horrible! How terribly, terribly unfair. Now I see why you are so exercised about everyone getting a tax cut.
"......because they think we are all gun rackin' rednecks...."
It's funny you mention "rednecks". Before FR was what it is now, I was involved in several AOL political discussion boards, and the liberals called us "rednecks". We used to laugh about it and formed our own "Redneck Republican Club" - I think I was RR #18! We wore that badge proudly! JulieRR21 is Redneck Republican #21, I believe!
There were several others that became regular FReepers, too! After one of the members kept posting FR links to the AOL boards, I decided to check out FR for myself. Think I made my very first post at FR at the end of 1996! It was to Deb - she replied, "Bite me!"
LOL! What is amazing to me was the article I found and posted from The Dayton Daily News, liberal rag of a paper it is, and it was mostly positive about Gov Bush's visit yesterday to Fairborn, OH.
After last night, I was ready for the Gore crowd this morning and so far they have been strangely silent! Maybe they haven't been given their talking point papers for the day yet!
Have a good one!
20 % of adults pay 80 % of the taxes. But you want to cut them out of the tax cut ?
20 % of adults pay 80 % of the federal income taxes.
20 % of adults pay 60 % of all federal taxes (income taxes, payroll taxes etc.)
But you want to cut the middle class ($30,000 -$200,000) out of the tax cut ?
We should all send Gov Bush a Thank You for giving us a new word to use -- Clymer!
Gates will get $100s of millions of dollars in tax cuts, if you are a typical middle-class family ($30,000 - $200,000), you will get about $350 in tax cuts.
OF COURSE!!!! Don't you see? Gates pays $100s of millions in taxes - I don't! If I were to get a $100 million tax cut, the government would be paying me approximately $100 million a year in tax refunds.
Incidentally, that $350 figure is flat out wrong. My parents, with a combined income of $100K and one dependent (my brother) would receive a $2970 tax cut. Those under $30K would pay NOTHING in taxes.
No liberal will ever admit that we are ALL (poor, middle class and rich) greatly overtaxed. It is the government that should learn to do without.
Of course if the Dems can't buy votes with their giveaway programs, they are finished!
Hey Tuco-bad, to be defending Gore's trainwreck of a tax proposal you must fit one or more of the following scenarios
1. Stay-at-home single mom with no job that watches too much TV.
2. Pootie pirate that hates the boy scouts, guns and God.
3. Rosie O'Donnell's press agent.
4. Town sewage disposal engineer currently enrolled in 5 college courses that you never go to after the check comes.
5. One of the three individuals nationwide that thinks Jessie Jackson has any credibility.
6. One of the three individuals nationwide that thinks Al Gore has any credibility. (That makes you either Tipper, Karenna, or Algore himself).
7. The most likely of all.... An assigned disruptor, handled and sent forth by the DNC.
Tuco, My thinking is anyone who has a high value on the tax issue will vote Dubya. With the female gap, GWB should begin hitting education daily and explain why moms are better choosing schools for their chillun' than the SpottedOwl's ed plan to keep the chillun inprisoned in the gov't schools. That issue will cross all ethic lines, including the sucker moms, and guarantee a Dubya win! Just my 2 sense.
Maybe if Bush shifted the benefits of his tax cut plan away from the wealthy to the middle class ($30,000 - $200,000), he could win the election.
First of all Comrade, unlike Gore's class warfare tax credits, GW's tax cut will provide REAL tax relief to ALL taxpayers. In percentage terms LOWER income tax payers get more relief than higher income tax payers. Secondly, and most importantly, like most socialists/communists you apparently don't believe capitalism works. Every time a socialist carps about GW's tax cut they invariably use the phrase "tickle-down economics" in terms that suggest it does not benefit the economy or is a give away to the rich. Well, when is the last time you heard of someone being hired by a POOR MAN? In fact tickle-down economics is the foundation of our prosperity! But hey don't take my word for it just ask the employees and shareholders of Microsoft, Intel, Motorola, Sun Microsystems, Starbucks, IBM, Home Depot, CitiGroup, Cisco, Wal-Mart, Nokia, etc, etc, etc.
Just got done reading this whole Tuco-Bad discussion and can't believe you guys are engaging this guy. He's all over the place. As soon as you try to nail him on a point, he shifts the parameters of the discussion to some other straw man argument. This payroll versus income tax is just the capper!
Discussing politics with someone like Tuco is like teaching a pig to sing - you waste your time and annoy the pig.
BTW, Tuco was The Ugly in the all time classic The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.
Please post to Breaking News! Makes this easier to find!
Bush is opening slightly--to 2.6%. That means the overnights will show a 1% jump more or less. Moving the right way. It's always good when Dubya is moving toward The Chairman's polling levels!
Help IS on the way folks!
A caller to the Medved show last week summed all of this "fair" talk up in one little story.
Man #1 bought a toy tractor for 10.00 and after the sales tax the bill came to 10.50, he decided he didn't like it and brought it back to the store for a refund.
Man #2 bought a real tractor for 100,000.00 (after tax total of 105,000.00). He too, didn't like it and wanted a refund.
While standing at the refund counter, man #1 sees the other man and all of the tax money he stands to get back man #1 starts throwing a temper tamtrum. Man #2 says, "You have no right to the 5,000.00 that I paid in taxes"
Man #1's pundits go on TV and demand that 5,000.00 in the name of fairness. Candidate #1 wants to give it to him (hell, it ain't his money) Candidate #2 says, "Hey that's not fair at all.
Candidate #2 is demonized daily for weeks as "mean-spirited" and "unfair" Who will you decide has the "fair" plan?
FReegards
I'm definitely middle class, even by your ever-changing definition of what that is. I actually calculated what my tax savings would be under Gore.
Surprise, surprise. It's ZERO.
People here aren't stupid. Why do you even bother?
It would be great if EVERYBODY was treated the same. Of course you flaming liberals like to engage in "social engineering" through the tax code to buy votes from constituency groups and promote behavior that you find beneficial to your agenda.
To be fair, everyone who gets to vote should be subjected to the same level of taxation. It is certainly not fair for people not subject to a tax to vote to raise or impliment said tax...that's not cooperation, but theft - and it's immoral.
Aside from that, we're still clearly over the top of the Laffer Curve, so if the government were after revenue, rather than punitive expeditions, it would cut taxes rather sharply. The "taxes on the rich" from 1990 budget LOST $5 Billion, but somehow it's unfair to cut it back. As a minimum, tax rates should be cut back to what they were when Bush took office...and then we'll adjust from there.
Hey, if I give my $350 to the First Grifter for trading in cattle futures, I get $35,000 back. Conversely, Lazio would only return about $2000. You are right. Gotta go vote for Gore. LOL.....
Re#62 Nice, very nice...
You're not adding in payroll taxes (e.g.; SS and Medicare).
Both of which are presented as an insurance program, and not the wealth redistibution plans they are. Of course without SSI, most receiving benefits from it would have been better off having never contributed to it too.
When I engage Tuco, it's more because I want to put info out there for real Freepers than talk with him/her. I realize some people are here simply to disrupt, and that I can't change that. Also, as an argument it's an easy win - you don't find many of those here on FR!
Moving the right direction. Thank God.
So what is so bad about the rich paying the same percentage as the middle class (which they don't - I paid $77,000 in quarterly taxes you fool) Socialist dogs like you brought us the boondoggles of Medicare and Social Security. Conservatives many years ago voted against this (soon to be broke) foolishness. You seem 2 Tacos short of a combination plate.
Bush is referring to NATIONAL INCOME TAXES only.....why, do you want to confuse the issue by referring to something NOT under discussion?
Add all my taxes together; add all of the OTHER government "fees" in - such as the 911 charges and the emmissions inspections, and the phone bill charges - where they charge me 5% sales tax AFTER adding in all their other fees - ... my federal, state, and local taxes last year WERE 48% of my income.
The Bush tax cut is needed....because the government is taking too much money from us.
You know, you're right. I've learned a lot from this thread and the attempt to educate Tuco that I would not have learned otherwise. Maybe it is a good thing to engage these disruptors (who now seem to have moved on).
What, are you never planning on getting ahead? NO ONE should have to pay more than a third of their income in taxes.
I don't know about you, but someday I hope to be in one of those upper tax brackets. I guess if you're a dud, you might be content for things to remain as they are. BTW, don't buy any lottery tickets.
Maybe it is a good thing to engage these disruptors
Yep! And it's usually fun, too. Some of them (not engaging in personal attacks), in particular, use such poor logic you can pick their arguments apart. You just have to be determined not to let them get under your skin.
Ah, but you have enough money to connect to an ISP and Freep, don't you? If the Lib/Tuco's have their way, you wouldn't
(Unless of course, it was to surf the liberal political sites, view gay porn, sign up on NAMBLA's website, etc.)
People at Free Republic are knowledgeable enough and intelligent enough to see through the lies and contradictions in your statements. For instance, you keep quoting $350 as what the average taxpayer gets, and then state that Bush hasn't actually released his tax plan yet. You define the middle class as people between $30k-$200k, or $30-$300k in a different post and claim it doesn't benefit them. Gore's plan gives some relief from the marriage penalty by increasing the deduction a little, only if they make under $60,000 a year and don't itemize deductions.
Here's some samples of the tax relief under the Bush plan:
Tax Relief for Families of Four
A family of four making $35,000 will receive a $1,500 tax cut, a 100 percent reduction.
A family of four making $50,000 will receive a $2,000 tax cut, a 50 percent reduction.
A family of four making $75,000 will receive a $2,500 tax cut, a 25 percent reduction.
Tax Relief for Single Parents
A single mother with one child making $22,000 will receive a $1,000 tax cut, a 100 percent reduction.
A single mother with two children making $32,000 will receive a $1,500 tax cut, a 95 percent reduction.
The Bush plan replaces the current 5 tax brackets of 15,28,31,36,39.6 percent with 10,15,25,33 percent.
It would raise the threshold for the phase-out of the child tax credit from $110,000 to $200,000 for married couples, and from $75,000 to $200,000 for single parents.
Go peddle your crap on some other website where the people are stupid enough and ignorant enough to fall for it. Maybe the Teamsters website. Or the Ms. Magazine site. Or maybe some site dedicated to legalizing marijuana. I'm sure everbody would like your posts and think they make perfect sense.
Add payroll taxes in, and you find that the wealthy pay just about the same federal tax rate as the middle class.
I find no such thing. I'm not sure how anyone else would find it, either.
In any event, you completely ignore the question. How is a proposal to cut lower- and middle-income rates to a much greater degree than high-income rates, and to further shift the total tax burden to high-income earners unfair to low- and middle-income earners?
I have a feeling Tuco's gone. He's been called on these claims, and can't defend his ludicrous arguments. Therefore, you'll likely get no response.
Agreed. Who wants to hang around to defend the indefensible?
But you want to cut the middle class ($30,000 -$200,000) out of the tax cut ?
Thyre not "cut out"; they get more tax cut percentage wise than they pax taxes (percentage wise of the total). Its skewed downward; WSJ ran an article recently, etc. Its been advertised all over the place.. 15 % bracket drops to 10 and move to the right, etc
If you cant sweat the details then why do you blabber so?
GWB has never been behind..
Where, oh where are all the new friends we made yesterday?!?!?
I wanted to kick some Commie Clymer today, and yet all the Flying Monkeys have, um, flown the coop.
I'm getting altogether too much work done whilst FReeping today.
% wise, Bush IS giving the middle class a much bigger tax cut than he is the "wealthy".
LOL. Me too. Yesterday was very distracting what with all the handwringing and seminar posts...
You know what I was very concerned about last night? I thought that after the release of all the polls(especially Zogby's)that it would somehow effect POA's poll today.
Thank you MrChips for flag.
Notice that Bush has not released the actual tax cut plan, just some appoximations.
Wrong, taco breath. He released a 497 +/- page document that fully outlines his plan (released back in July). He even put out a four page summary for folks like you that wouldn't wade through it because you would not want to be enlightened.
No offense, but if you are going to make accusations, at least try not to speak in algore-isms.....
In case you haven't figured it out, Tuco-Bad is really MAX-HEADROOM with a James Carvelle virus.
It's the only thing that makes sense, no true human could be so dense.
Wrong, taco breath. He released a 497 +/- page document that fully outlines his plan (released back in July). He even put out a four page summary for folks like you that wouldn't wade through it because you would not want to be enlightened.
Four pages is a lot for some to wade through. Better that he should have reduced it to one sewnctence of monosyllable words. For example: "like, well you know, it's good for you, Duh." That should get to most of the Gore supporters and a few of the posters here.
No fair making sense, watts - you know they prefer to look at it in amount of tax dollars saved vs income percentage.
SO, tuco, do like many on this forum and work hard!!! Get a second or third job.
Don't you EVER get sick of yourself? Hearing yourself cry "victim", or "poor person and not willing to work more than one job", or all the things that looking for a hand out types always cry?
Wake up and smell the coffee. I know, my husband worked more than 1 or 2 jobs. Sometimes he worked 3 (! horrors ! imagine - working hard to get ahead !!!)
Guess what??? YOU, tuco CAN DO IT TOO!!!
Oh, and BTW - I know quadriplegics that support themselves.
Add all my taxes together; add all of the OTHER government "fees" in - such as the 911 charges and the emmissions inspections, and the phone bill charges - where they charge me 5% sales tax AFTER adding in all their other fees - ... my federal, state, and local taxes last year WERE 48% of my income.
You must be in a really low bracket. In 1994, $42,000 minus dependents still got me 65%. (I'll bet you overlooked several, like property taxes, and utilities taxes).
What, are you never planning on getting ahead? NO ONE should have to pay more than a third of their income in taxes.
No one should have to pay more than a tenth...
Gates will get $100s of millions of dollars in tax cuts,
Like to back that up with some facts? Just one fact would do.
bttt
bttt
bttt
HARRY!!! This is so simple it is BRILLIANT!
This little illustration must be used to wake up the brain dead
who can't figure this stuff out.
Captain
Couldn't agree more. That is absolutely a brilliant brilliant illustration. Do I smell an RNC commerical out of this???? Oh, yeah... bump.
G Man
Glad you liked post #62. It came from a caller to the Michael Medved show. There's a hell of a difference between thinking people and seminar callers.
Remember the Rush episode a couple of weeks ago where those women called in all ga-ga over the Gore kiss? I guess that lit a FIRE under genuine thinking women (conservatives). In the two weeks since that show women have made some of the best calls to these shows.
The above story was told by a woman.
bttt
bttt
bttt
bttt
Incidentally, that $350 figure is flat out wrong. My parents, with a combined income of $100K and one dependent (my brother) would receive a $2970 tax cut
I did say average for the $350.
I would be interested in how you calculated the $2970 (please don't quote me Bush's Web site that does a "black box" calculation).
Hey Tuco-bad, to be defending Gore's trainwreck of a tax proposal
When did I ever defend Gore's tax proposal?
I believe in a general tax cut for all the middle class ($30,000 - $ 200,000), not targeted tax cuts or tax cuts that favor the wealthy.
BTW - the middle class never had a true tax cut.
Tuco, My thinking is anyone who has a high value on the tax issue will vote Dubya. With the female gap, GWB should begin hitting education daily and explain why moms are better choosing schools for their chillun' than the SpottedOwl's ed plan to keep the chillun inprisoned in the gov't schools. That issue will cross all ethic lines, including the sucker moms, and guarantee a Dubya win! Just my 2 sense.
I'm sure it will help, unfortunately both sides must make promises that hurt our country, merely to get elected.
Who will you decide has the "fair" plan?
The middle class ($30,000 - $200,000) never got a real tax cut.
Check it out.
You're not adding in payroll taxes (e.g.; SS and Medicare). - Tuco-bad
Both of which are presented as an insurance program, - lepton
Then explain why the Reps want to take the surplus of SS and Medicare payments (paid for mainly by the middle class) and give the money back to the wealthy as a tax cut.
I'm definitely middle class, even by your ever-changing definition of what that is
When did I ever change my definition of middle class?
I actually calculated what my tax savings would be under Gore
Surprise, surprise. It's ZERO
When did I ever say I supported Gore's tax cut plan?
Hey, if I give my $350 to the First Grifter for trading in cattle futures, I get $35,000 back. Conversely, Lazio would only return about $2000. You are right. Gotta go vote for Gore. LOL
By your logic one can justify Clinton's scandals with Nixon's alleged crimes.
So what is so bad about the rich paying the same percentage as the middle class (which they don't - I paid $77,000 in quarterly taxes you fool) Socialist dogs like you brought us the boondoggles of Medicare and Social Security. Conservatives many years ago voted against this (soon to be broke) foolishness. You seem 2 Tacos short of a combination plate.
Hmmm $77,000 in quarterly taxes, and yet you're so hardup for a bigger tax cut, at the detriment of the middle class.
You're one mighty selfish person.
Bush is referring to NATIONAL INCOME TAXES only.....why, do you want to confuse the issue by referring to something NOT under discussion?
Except that Bush wants to pay for his tax cut with a surplus of federal payroll taxes.
What, are you never planning on getting ahead? NO ONE should have to pay more than a third of their income in taxes.
I agree!
And you are paying over 1/3 of your income now as a middle-class tax payer.
Don't you believe you need a significant tax cut?
How is a proposal to cut lower- and middle-income rates to a much greater degree than high-income rates, and to further shift the total tax burden to high-income earners unfair to low- and middle-income earners?
A $350 average tax cut for the middle class is not exactly shifting the tax burden to the high-income earners, especially when the high-income earners will receive $tens of thousands if not $millions of tax cuts.
Thyre not "cut out"; they get more tax cut percentage wise than they pax taxes (percentage wise of the total). Its skewed downward; WSJ ran an article recently, etc. Its been advertised all over the place.. 15 % bracket drops to 10 and move to the right, etc
Under Bush, the average middle-class ($30,000 - $200,000) tax cut would be $350.
Tell Bush to "keep the change."
% wise, Bush IS giving the middle class a much bigger tax cut than he is the "wealthy".
$350.
Is that what you are getting so excited about?
Wrong, taco breath. He released a 497 +/- page document that fully outlines his plan (released back in July). He even put out a four page summary for folks like you that wouldn't wade through it because you would not want to be enlightened.
497 page document to outline his tax-cut plan?
Give me a break!
I know, my husband worked more than 1 or 2 jobs. Sometimes he worked 3
I guess your husband couldn't find a full-time job.
Like to back that up with some facts? Just one fact would do.
Work it out yourself, Gates gets $100s of millions of dollars of capital gains, interest and dividends a year.
Quit paying attention to polls!!!!!
Hmmm $77,000 in quarterly taxes, and yet you're so hardup for a bigger tax cut, at the detriment of the middle class.
Why shouldn't this person be? They work hard to be productive, and you want the government to take the money and redistribute it. Why should this person have to give this money to the government? It isn't the government's role to take it.
You're one mighty selfish person.
And you're one mighty socialistic person. Do you deny that what you are proposing is socialism, cloaked in a [false] appeal to the middle class? Tuco says, "Middle class workers of the world, unite!"
.
I guess your husband couldn't find a full-time job.
Get off it. Some people choose to work hard to earn their money - even if that means working more than one job. Others choose to sit around and collect a check from the government. Based on this comment, I guess you approve of the latter.
C-SPAN is about to replay my Call. I spoke about media bias against Bush, Gore flunking out, etc., from Pomona, California.
When did I ever change my definition of middle class?
Somewhere between posts #20 and #43.
Gates will get $100s of millions of dollars in tax cuts,
Like to back that up with some facts? Just one fact would do.
Work it out yourself, Gates gets $100s of millions of dollars of capital gains, interest and dividends a year.
Your logic stinks as badly as does your math - and apparently your ability to read.
Bill Gates is an extremely wealthy man. By far, the majority of his wealth is in the value of the Microsoft stock that he holds. As long as he holds it he pays no tax on it. When he sells it he pays a capital gain tax on the gain. Gov. Bush's tax plan does not change the capital gains tax so Gates would get no "tax cut" on any stock that he sells.
As for interest and dividends, his only interest comes from any investments he may have made in interest bearing accounts. If they are in municipal bonds, there is no tax on them now (except AMT). As for dividends, Microsoft does not and never has paid dividends on its stock.
Obviously, Gates is in the 39.6% federal income tax bracket - which Bush would reduce to 33%. That's a tax cut of 16.7%. To get $100's of millions in tax cuts (your original statement) he would have to be paying over $2 billion in income tax currently in addition to any capital gains tax. That's for a $200 million tax cut (I read $100's of millions as at least $200 million).
I've looked over many of your replies on this thread and it is obvious you are either too stupid or too stubborn to read Bush's tax plan. It's out there in detail. I suggest that you read it, run some numbers on your 1040 and get some education before you expose any more of your ignorance. It is not rocket science.
Why shouldn't this person be? They work hard to be productive, and you want the government to take the money and redistribute it. Why should this person have to give this money to the government? It isn't the government's role to take it.
But it's alright in your opinion for the middle class to work hard to be productive, and have the government take the money and redistribute it.
Do you deny that what you are proposing is socialism, cloaked in a [false] appeal to the middle class?
What I am advocating is that for once, the middle class gets a tax cut.
Obviously, Gates is in the 39.6% federal income tax bracket - which Bush would reduce to 33%. That's a tax cut of 16.7%. To get $100's of millions in tax cuts (your original statement) he would have to be paying over $2 billion in income tax currently in addition to any capital gains tax. That's for a $200 million tax cut (I read $100's of millions as at least $200 million).
Over 10 years, the same length of time GWB speaks of.
But it's alright in your opinion for the middle class to work hard to be productive, and have the government take the money and redistribute it.
Gee, you've mischaracterized my position - I'm shocked. The tool of all liberals once they realize they have been beaten in a debate. Let me make this clear for you: what I advocate is a tax reduction for all people, in all classes. What you advocate is class warfare, and I think I speak for everyone here when I say we're tired of it.
Where the heck did you learn your math? Currently families with an income of between $26,000 and $35,000 pay federal income taxes. Under the Bush plan, they will pay no federal income taxes. For a married couple with two children, making $35,000, that is a savings of $1,500 – a 100% reduction! A family of four making $50,000 will receive a tax cut of $2,000. That’s a 50% reduction in taxes. A family of four making $75,000 will have taxes reduced by 25%, receiving a cut of $2,500. As a percentage of what they currently pay in taxes, low and middle income families get a bigger cut than the rich.
Where do you get your figure of $350?
Methinks Tuco is a tucan parroting the party line without thinking. His numbers just don't add up.
Hmmmmm...let's see:
A family making 35K gets a 100% reduction in taxes.
A family making 50K gets a 50% reduction in taxes.
A family making 75K gets a 25% reduction in taxes.
The Gates family gets a 16.7% reduction in taxes.
Yep! It sure looks like the Bush plan favors the rich! DUH!!!!
Actually, I know where you got that figure from, but was just curious to see what you would say. Gore is using smoke and mirrors. He is factoring all the working poor who currently pay NO taxes to begin with when averaging out the tax benefit. Obviously someone who doesn't pay taxes isn't going to benefit from a tax cut. That's pretty deceptive doncha think? ;-)
The middle class ($30,000 - $200,000) never got a real tax cut.
Never say never Tuco. Under Reagan they DID. Under the Stainmaker, you know, Mr. Middle-Class tax cutter, they DIDN'T
Over 10 years, the same length of time GWB speaks of.
Prove it, Clymer. Better yet, go play in your own sandbox.
Methinks Tuco is a tucan parroting the party line without thinking. His numbers just don't add up.
He is. Tuco-bad is Shrillary's biggest defender, too. It's fun to blow huge holes in his "logic" though.
smartly done
Thanks.
my pleasure
$350? Based on what circumstances?
Actually, I'd rather not pay an income tax at all. I'd rather see the IRS disbanded. But I'm realistic enough to understand that will not happen overnight.
Nobody ever accused tuco of having brainstorms.
But tuco's brainfarts - multiple occurences.
Let me make this clear for you: what I advocate is a tax reduction for all people, in all classes. What you advocate is class warfare, and I think I speak for everyone here when I say we're tired of it.
Let me make this clear for you: what I advocate is a significant tax reduction for all people, in all classes, including the middle class.
What you advocate is: huge tax cuts for the rich and small tax cuts for everyone else, is class warfare, and I think I speak for many people here here when I say we're tired of it.
Where the heck did you learn your math?
You keep mentioning families of four.
What happens when the children reach the age of 18, what happens to single taxpayers?
When you compute Bush's average tax cut for the middle class it's only around $350 per year.
Bush's gives the huge tax break to the wealthy, and why not, they're investing in him.
Gore can get 5-10% with some handouts....
Where do you get your figure of $350?
That's the published, apparently accepted number by the Bush campaign as they haven't diputed the number.
BTW - Gore at his acceptance speech said the benefit would be only the equivalent of a Diet Coke a week, after the speech he said he misspoke, and said he should had said a Diet Coke a day.
bttt
What do you mean by a "huge break?" The top five percent already pay over 50 percent of the taxes. Are you suggesting that Dubya's tax cut gives the "wealthy" a disproportionate rate cut? If so, please provide some evidence. The problem with Dubya's tax cut is that that the overall amount is too small not that the "wealthy" get any special benefit. BTW, according to Gore, Americans who earn over 75 K per year in family income are "wealthy."
The middle class ($30,000 - $200,000) never got a real tax cut. - Tuco-bad
Never say never Tuco. Under Reagan they DID. - Inspector Harry Callahan
There was the tax cut in 1981, but before it fully went into effect, Congress passed the Social Security Reform Act of 1983 which significanlty raised payroll taxes, more than nulifying the benefits of the 1981 tax cuts.
The top five percent already pay over 50 percent of the taxes.
You're not including payroll taxes, include all federal taxes and you find that the top 5% pay only around 30% of the taxes.
Are you suggesting that Dubya's tax cut gives the "wealthy" a disproportionate rate cut?
Yes! Suppose you are a single person paying $1,000,000 per year in taxes, Bush will save you around $100,000.
Now if you were only earning paying $6,000 per year in taxes, Bush might save you $0 - $2,000 (depending upon whether you itemize, etc.).
Interesting point about payroll taxes, though we are not talking about them. Interestingly, your point confirms what I said. At 30 percent of the total, your stats show that the top 5 percent bear a disproportionate amount of the overall tax load. How is that kind of class discrimination "fair?" BTW, how many Americans actually know that the top 5 percent of the taxpayers pay a hefty 30 percent of all taxes. I wonder how much the top 10 percent pay (including payroll taxes). Over 50 percent? If you have stats on that, I would be sincerely interested.
P.S. if you are suggesting that Dubya *also* make across the board rate reductions for payroll taxes we can join hands in common cause. Are you suggesting this or is your valid point about payroll taxes just a debating trick on your part?
Interesting point about payroll taxes, though we are not talking about them. Interestingly, your point confirms what I said. At 30 percent of the total, your stats show that the top 5 percent bear a disproportionate amount of the overall tax load. How is that kind of class discrimination "fair?" BTW, how many Americans actually know that the top 5 percent of the taxpayers pay a hefty 30 percent of all taxes. I wonder how much the top 10 percent pay (including payroll taxes). Over 50 percent? If you have stats on that, I would be sincerely interested.
P.S. if you are suggesting that Dubya *also* make across the board rate reductions for payroll taxes we can join hands in common cause. Are you suggesting this or is your valid point about payroll taxes just a debating trick on your part?
nteresting point about payroll taxes, though we are not talking about them. Interestingly, your point confirms what I said. At 30 percent of the total, your stats show that the top 5 percent bear a disproportionate amount of the overall tax load. How is that kind of class discrimination "fair?" BTW, how many Americans actually know that the top 5 percent of the taxpayers pay a hefty 30 percent of all taxes. I wonder how much the top 10 percent pay (including payroll taxes). Over 50 percent? If you have stats on that, I would be sincerely interested.
Actually the top 5% pay even less than the 30%, because of tax preferences (e.g.; tax-free bonds, capital gains), also many of the other 95% of taxpayers, are children or spouses of the top 5%.
BTW - we discussed the details here on the FreeRepublic a number of months ago.
P.S. if you are suggesting that Dubya *also* make across the board rate reductions for payroll taxes we can join hands in common cause. Are you suggesting this or is your valid point about payroll taxes just a debating trick on your part?
Nope! GWB will use the surplus in payroll taxes to pay for tax cuts for the rich.
But I agree with you, that payroll taxes should be cut.
Your skating on thin ice. How are your calculations changed by the many tax preferences received by the poor, most especially the EITC? In any case, I don't think you are claiming that the top 5 percent pay 5 percent or less of the load, or are you?
I'm glad that we both agree (contra Dubya and Gore) on the need for payroll tax reductions but you still haven't answered the question: why do think it is "fair" for the top five percent of income earners to bear more than five percent of the tax load?
"Nope! GWB will use the surplus in payroll taxes to pay for tax cuts for the rich."
Warning: Democrat Gore loving Clymer quote detected above!
My Clymer detection software is flashing red lights all over this thread.
Clymer Alert!!!
Clymer poster detected: Tuco-bad
Time of last detected Clymer post: 09/10/2000 11:38:12 PDT
Last detected Clymer post number: 155
* End Clymer Alert *
HA ha, taco-plate.
That was 1 full time and 2 part time. Bet you never worked that hard in your life, hey tico?
You and the others always looking for a handout are the SUPREMELY selfish people; and not just selfish but immoral. You would pick someone's pocket instead of earning an honest and decent living on your own. It's going to end one day, tuco. People will get tired of paying for handouts and shrug.
If you brag about all the activities in your life that make it impossible for you to work, why not be content with what you have? eh, tuco?
Oh, and BTW, a $350. tax cut is $350. you don't have now. Beggars cannot be choosers. Be grateful for what you get, or go work harder.
Horesefeathers! The Bush campaign has always disputed the Gore figure. I notice you didn't address the smoke-and-mirrors tactic being used by the Gore camp. They arrive at that average by factoring in a big fat zero in benefits for those who currently pay no federal taxes. That is deceptive and you know it. I mention a family of four because that is what is considered an average family. If you wanna talk singles, bring it on! A single tax-payer under Gore wouldn't get a tax cut at all from Gore. Bush's tax cut is across the board for EVERY taxpayer. Pull your head out of the sand and do some math! You are too much!!!! It's so sad to see people like you buying every line of rhetoric tossed your way without bothering to think.
You and the others always looking for a handout are the SUPREMELY selfish people
Hey I work for a living, from your post, it seems you do not.
A single tax-payer under Gore wouldn't get a tax cut at all from Gore.
I'm not supporting Gore's tax-cut plan.
Bush's tax cut is across the board for EVERY taxpayer.
Not really, mostly for the rich, many if not most single people will get either no tax cut or very little tax cut with Bush's tax cut plan.
Bush's tax-cut plan is designed to benefit the wealthy.
Pull your head out of the sand and do some math!
You're the one who needs to do the math. What part of 100% reduction don't you understand. As a precentage of what they currently pay now, it is the lowest income families who will benefit most under Bush.
I don't ask for handouts,in fact I lend a helping hand to those in need; I don't want to pick the pockets of the people who work hard and keep this country running. I want to be free, not live in a Socialist prison camp, I respect my fellow Americans and wish them freedom as well as myself.
NONE of which emanates from your posts.
You're the one who needs to do the math. What part of 100% reduction don't you understand. As a precentage of what they currently pay now, it is the lowest income families who will benefit most under Bush.
Yes, only the middle class (average tax cut $350), gets screwed by Bush.
I don't ask for handouts
But you don't work for a living, how do you manage?
Wouldn't you like to know!
Wouldn't you like to know!
I do know, but I am too much of a gentleperson to say.
Once again, you're showing you either can't do math or you are deliberately joining in the Al Gore deception. As I stated before, that $350 average is arrived at by factoring in all the poor people who currently don't pay taxes and, therefore, won't get a cut. How many times must I explain that before it sinks in? Gore is being deliberately deceptive and if you maintain that lie, after I have explained to you twice, then you are too. What do you consider middle class? A family of 4 making 50k? A family of four making $50,000 will receive a tax cut of $2,000. That’s a 50% reduction in taxes. A family of four making $75,000 will have taxes reduced by 25%, receiving a cut of $2,500. NOW STOP LYING!
What do you consider middle class? A family of 4 making 50k? A family of four making $50,000 will receive a tax cut of $2,000. That’s a 50% reduction in taxes. A family of four making $75,000 will have taxes reduced by 25%, receiving a cut of $2,500. NOW STOP LYING!
What do you consider middle class? Only a family of 4, what about a family of 1 or 2 or 3?
NOW STOP LYING!
This poll is, if nothing else, remarkably CONSISTENT.
That is why I tend to believe it more than the others.
I have a hard time believing that 15-20% of the population can change their views over-night as some polls would have us believe.
Man, you really are incapable of logical thought, aren't you?
Here's all the permutations and the breakdowns of a family making 50K, genius:
Single - 0 kids - $816 cut
Single - 1 kid - $1108 cut
Single - 2 kids - $1525 cut
Married - 0 kids - 1 wage earner - $600 cut
Married - 0 kids - 50% of income from second earner - $975 cut
Married - 1 kid - 1 wage earner - $1101 cut
Married - 1 kid - 50% of income from second earner - $1476 cut
Married - 2 kids - 1 wage earner - $1600 cut
Married - 2 kids -50% from second earner - $1975 cut
The AVERAGE of all those permutations is a tax cut of $1,240 -- and that doesn't even factor in those with MORE than 2 kids. Now, for once in your life, stop buying Gore's lies and ENGAGE YOUR BRAIN in logical thought. Go to the tax calculator at www.georgewbush.com and figure it out for yourself. And when you do, I expect you to STOP LYING and face the fact that you've been HAD!
BTW, if you had any class at all you would contact everyone you mislead with that Gore lie and tell them the truth about GW's tax cut.
The AVERAGE of all those permutations is a tax cut of $1,240
Your permutations do not include all ranges of middle-class income.
BTW - Assuming the average taxpayer received a $1,000 tax cut, that would mean a reduction of $110 Billion in income tax revenue a year.
Stop dreaming.
BTW, if you had any class at all you would contact everyone you mislead with that Gore lie and tell them the truth about GW's tax cut.
BTW, if soccermom had any class at all she would contact everyone she mislead with that Gore lie and tell them the truth about GW's tax cut.
Nice dodge! First you lie about the tax cuts for the middle class and then when I expose you, you change your tune by saying we can't afford it. First of all, these tax cuts make up 1/4 of the SURPLUS! Translation: It's OUR money which has been over-charged and we're getting some of it back. Furthermore, as Reagan and JFK have shown us, tax cuts actually increase revenue because people have an incentive to earn more.
LOL! And now you're back-tracking on the 50K as middle class. It's so fun to watch you twist and spin. Why can't you simply admit you were WRONG that Gore DECEIVED you? You can keep changing the standards all you want. It will still come out in GW's favor. Go ahead. Use the same permutations for people at 40K, 45K, 55K and so on. You will find that it averages to no where near $350! And, I've lowered the average in your favor by not factoring in families with 3 or 4 kids. Why are you so reluctant to engage your brain? Why do you refuse to research the truth? Why are you afraid to face the truth?
Please show me where I lied? I have knocked you butt around the block on this issue and all you can so is spin and dodge. I've given you plenty of opportunity to back up your lie and you have yet to do it. You just keep coming back with more "yeah buts" and I knock them out of the ball park. I would expect nothing less from a mindless Gore supporter.
Please show me where I lied?
Never said you lied, I just that you are wrong in your assumptions.
Simply put, Gore stated the average middle-class tax cut under Bush will be $350, and Bush's camp never disputed that number.
>>If you're a family of 4 earning $36,000, you are on the bottom of the middle class.>>
That depends on where and how you live. I know people who only earn this much or less who are buying houses and raising families.
Of course the Bush camp has disputed that number! Gee, I wonder why you didn't hear them dispute it. It couldn't be media bias, could it? Nahhhh. Perhaps the third time is the charm and if I put it in caps it will sink through your thick skull. THE FIGURE GORE OFFERED IS MISLEADING BECAUSE IT FACTORS IN THE PEOPLE WHO CURRENTLY PAY NO TAXES AND, THEREFORE, WILL NOT RECIEVE ANY TAX CUT. THE GORE CAMP THROWS IN A BIG FAT ZERO FOR THOSE POOR PEOPLE WHO WON'T BE GETTING A TAX CUT BECAUSE THEY DON'T PAY TAXES IN THE FIRST PLACE. THAT IS A SLIMY DISTORTION AND YOU KNOW IT. THAT WOULD BE LIKE ME TAKING THE BUDGET FOR GORE'S TARGETED TAX CUTS AND DIVIDING IT BY THE TOTAL NUMBER OF FAMILIES IN THE COUNTRY TO COME UP WITH THE "AVERAGE" BENEFIT OF GORE'S TAX CUT. I HAVE GIVEN YOU PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITIES TO FIGURE THIS OUT FOR YOURSELF. I CHALLENGE YOU. ESTABLISH AN INCOME RANGE THAT YOU CONSIDER "MIDDLE CLASS." THEN GO TO THE BUSH TAX CALUCLATOR AND SEE WHAT THE TAX BREAK WILL BE FOR ALL THE PERMUTATIONS I GAVE YOU AT EACH INCOME LEVEL. ADD THEM UP AND AVERAGE THEM OUT. I GUARANTEE YOU THE AVERAGE CUT WILL BE SUBSTANTIALLY GREATER THN $350. NOW, ARE YOU WILLING TO TAKE THE CHALLENGE? ARE YOU WILLING TO FACE THE TRUTH? OR ARE YOU INCAPABLE OF DOING MATH AND LOGICAL REASONING?
Even at Tuco's definition of the bottom of the middle class -- a family of four making 36 K -- the tax cut would be $1670. It is really sad and pathetic to see someone so hard-headed that he would rather buy into Gore's lie than think for himself.
>> It is really sad and pathetic to see someone so hard-headed that he would rather buy into Gore's lie than think for himself.<<
Nope,it's not that he/she/it/whatever is hardheaded or stupid. I'm willing to bet their livlihood depends on Dims remaining in power. In other words,"selfish self-interest".(G)
OK, assuming that you will stubbornly refuse to educate yourself, I did the research for you. Feel free to verify my numbers. In your post #15, you described the middle class as between 30K and 200K. The tax calculator only goes up to 100K. So I'm cutting your middle class to the LOWER half of YOUR description. Using the same permutations I provided for my breakdown of families with an income of 50K, I came up with averages for families from 30K to 100K at 10K intervals. Keep in mind that I'm getting the low-ball averages, because I'm not even factoring in familes with more than two kids. The averages are as follows:
30K - $889
40K - $1168
50K - $1240
60K - $1454
70K - $1798
80K - $2186
90K - $2603
100K - $2964
For an average tax cut of: $1787.75
Please note that even your LOWEST income range for the middle class gets at tax cut more than TWICE what Gore claimed. And even that number is deceptively low because it factors in single income people with no kids and doesn't factor people with 3 or more kids.
The AVERAGE tax cut for the LOWER HALF of your own description of the middle class is FIVE TIMES what Gore claimed. Imagine how much higher that figure would be if people making 100-200K were factored in. I have the numbers broken down by each permutation, if you would like me to provide those as well.
NOW, are you FINALLY ready to admit that Gore MISLEAD YOU?????? What else has he lied to you about?
Look at it in the only way that makes sense, Bush will not STEAL as much money from America as the commUNist gore thing. It is after all is said and done, STEALING. Taxes are: to put it simply: adulterated THEFT!!
Look at it in the only way that makes sense, Bush will not STEAL as much money from America as the commUNist gore thing. It is after all is said and done, STEALING. Taxes are: to put it simply: adulterated THEFT!!
Well I can't say I entirely agree with you, but I do believe the entire middle class deserves a big tax cut.
All other groups have been getting tax cuts, it's about time the entire middle class got one.
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