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 The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but Not AWOL,
EitherBy Peter Keating and Karthik Thyagarajan
For more than a year, controversy about George W. Bush's Air National Guard
record has bubbled through the press. Interest in the topic has spiked in recent
days, as at least two websites have launched stories essentially calling Bush
AWOL in 1972 and 1973. For example, in "Finally, the Truth about Bush's Military
Record" on TomPaine.com, Marty
Heldt writes, "Bush's long absence from the records comes to an end one week
after he failed to comply with an order to attend 'Annual Active Duty Training'
starting at the end of May 1973... Nothing indicates in the records that he ever
made up the time he missed." And in Bush's Military Record Reveals Grounding and
Absence for Two Full Years" on Democrats.com, Robert A. Rogers states: "Bush never actually
reported in person for the last two years of his service - in direct violation
of two separate written orders."
Neither is correct.
It's time to set the record straight. The following analysis, which relies on
National Guard documents, extensive interviews with military officials and
previously unpublished evidence of Bush's whereabouts in the summer and fall of
1972, is the first full chronology of Bush's military record. Its basic
conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment to get into the Guard,
served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, but
he did accumulate the days of service required of him for his ultimate honorable
discharge.
At the Republican convention in Philadelphia, George W. Bush declared: "Our
military is low on parts, pay and morale. If called on by the commander-in-chief
today, two entire divisions of the Army would have to report, 'Not ready for
duty, sir.'" Bush says he is the candidate who can "rebuild our military and
prepare our armed forces for the future." On what direct military experience
does he make such claims?
George W. Bush applied to join the Texas Air National Guard on May 27, 1968,
less than two weeks before he graduated from Yale University. The country was at
war in Vietnam, and at that time, just months after the bloody Tet Offensive, an
estimated 100,000 Americans were on waiting lists to join Guard units across the
country. Bush was sworn in on the day he applied.
Ben Barnes, former speaker of the Texas House of Representatives, stated in
September 1999 that in late 1967 or early 1968, he asked a senior official in
the Texas Air National Guard to help Bush get into the Guard as a pilot. Barnes
said he did so at the behest of Sidney Adger, a Houston businessman and friend
of former President George H. W. Bush, then a Texas congressman. Despite
Barnes's admission, former President Bush has denied pulling strings for his
son, and retired Colonel Walter Staudt, George W. Bush's first commander,
insists: "There was no special treatment."
The younger Bush fulfilled two years of active duty and completed pilot
training in June 1970. During that time and in the two years that followed, Bush
flew the F-102, an interceptor jet equipped with heat-seeking missiles that
could shoot down enemy planes. His commanding officers and peers regarded Bush
as a competent pilot and enthusiastic Guard member. In March 1970, the Texas Air
National Guard issued a press release trumpeting his performance: "Lt. Bush
recently became the first Houston pilot to be trained by the 147th [Fighter
Group] and to solo in the F-102... Lt. Bush said his father was just as excited
and enthusiastic about his solo flight as he was." In Bush's evaluation for the
period May 1, 1971 through April 30, 1972, then-Colonel Bobby Hodges, his
commanding officer, stated, "I have personally observed his participation, and
without exception, his performance has been noteworthy." In the spring of 1972,
however, National Guard records show a sudden dropoff in Bush's military
activity. Though trained as a pilot at considerable government expense, Bush
stopped flying in April 1972 and never flew for the Guard again.
Around that time, Bush decided to go to work for Winton "Red" Blount, a
Republican running for the U.S. Senate, in Alabama. Documents from Ellington Air
Force Base in Houston state that Bush "cleared this base on 15 May." Shortly
afterward, he applied for assignment to the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron in
Montgomery, Ala., a unit that required minimal duty and offered no pay. Although
that unit's commander was willing to welcome him, on May 31 higher-ups at the
Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver rejected Bush's request to serve at the
9921st, because it did not offer duty equivalent to his service in Texas. "[A]n
obligated Reservist [in this case, Bush] can be assigned to a specific Ready
Reserve position only," noted the disapproval memo, a copy of which was sent to
Bush. "Therefore, he is ineligible for assignment to an Air Reserve Squadron."
Despite the military's decision, Bush moved to Alabama. Records obtained by
Georegemag.com show that the Blount Senate campaign paid Bush about $900 a month
from mid-May through mid-November to do advance work and organize events.
Neither Bush's annual evaluation nor the Air National Guard's overall
chronological listing of his service contain any evidence that he performed
Guard duties during that summer.
On or around his 27th birthday, July 6, 1972, Bush did not take his required
annual medical exam at his Texas unit. As a consequence, he was suspended from
flying military jets. Bush spokesperson Dan Bartlett told Georgemag.com: "You
take that exam because you are flying, and he was not flying. The paperwork uses
the phrase 'suspended from flying,' but he had no intention of flying at that
time."
Some media reports have speculated that Bush took and failed his physical, or
that he was grounded as a result of substance abuse. Bush's vagueness on the
subject of his past drug use has only abetted such rumors. Bush's commanding
officer in Texas, however, denies the charges. "His flying status was suspended
because he didn't take the exam,not because he couldn't pass," says Hodges.
Asked whether Bush was ever disciplined for using alcohol or illicit drugs,
Hodges replied: "No."
On September 5, Bush wrote to then-Colonel Jerry Killian at his original unit
in Texas, requesting permission to serve with the 187th Tactical Reconnaisance
Group, another Alabama-based unit. "This duty would be for the months of
September, October, and November," wrote Bush.
This time his request was approved: 10 days later, the Alabama Guard ordered
Bush to report to then-Lieutenant Colonel William Turnipseed at Dannelly Air
Force Base in Montgomery on October 7th and 8th. The memo noted that "Lieutenant
Bush will not be able to satisfy his flight requirements with our group," since
the 187th did not fly F-102s.
The question of whether Bush ever actually served in Alabama has become an
issue in the 2000 campaign-the Air Force Times recently reported that "the GOP
is trying to locate people who served with Bush in late 1972 ... to see if they
can confirm that Bush briefly served with the Alabama Air National Guard."
Bush's records contain no evidence that he reported to Dannelly in October. And
in telephone interviews with Georgemag.com, neither Turnipseed, Bush's
commanding officer, nor Kenneth Lott, then chief personnel officer of the 187th,
remembered Bush serving with their unit. "I don't think he showed up,"
Turnipseed said.
Bush maintains he did serve in Alabama. "Governor Bush specifically remembers
pulling duty in Montgomery and respectfully disagrees with the Colonel," says
Bartlett. "There's no question it wasn't memorable, because he wasn't flying."
In July, the Decatur Daily reported that two former Blount campaign workers
recall Bush serving in the Alabama Air National Guard in the fall of 1972. "I
remember he actually came back to Alabama for about a week to 10 days several
weeks after the campaign was over to complete his Guard duty in the state,"
stated Emily Martin, a former Alabama resident who said she dated Bush during
the time he spent in that state.
After the 1972 election, which Blount lost, Bush moved back to Houston and
subsequently began working at P.U.L.L., a community service center for
disadvantaged youths. This period of time has also become a matter of
controversy, because even though Bush's original unit had been placed on alert
duty in October 1972, his superiors in Texas lost track of his whereabouts. On
May 2, 1973, Bush's squadron leader in the 147th, Lieutenant Colonel William
Harris, Jr. wrote: "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit" for the past
year. Harris incorrectly assumed that Bush had been reporting for duty in
Alabama all along. He wrote that Bush "has been performing equivalent training
in a non-flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama."
Base commander Hodges says of Bush's return to Texas: "All I remember is someone
saying he came back and made up his days."
Two documents obtained by Georgemag.com indicate that Bush did make up the
time he missed during the summer and autumn of 1972. One is an April 23, 1973
order for Bush to report to annual active duty training the following month; the
other is an Air National Guard statement of days served by Bush that is torn and
undated but contains entries that correspond to the first. Taken together, they
appear to establish that Bush reported for duty on nine occasions between
November 29, 1972-when he could have been in Alabama-and May 24, 1973. Bush
still wasn't flying, but over this span, he did earn nine points of National
Guard service from days of active duty and 32 from inactive duty. When added to
the 15 so-called "gratuitous" points that every member of the Guard got per
year, Bush accumulated 56 points, more than the 50 that he needed by the end of
May 1973 to maintain his standing as a Guardsman.
On May 1, Bush was ordered to report for further active duty training, and
documents show that he proceeded to cram in another 10 sessions over the next
two months. Ultimately, he racked up 19 active duty points of service and 16
inactive duty points by July 30-which, added to his 15 gratuitous points,
achieved the requisite total of 50 for the year ending in May 1974.
On October 1, 1973, First Lieutenant George W. Bush received an early
honorable discharge so that he could attend Harvard Business School. He was
credited with five years, four months and five days of service toward his
six-year service obligation.
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Per your request. ;^)
Read and weep.
Enjoy
Oh, darn! Does this mean that Governor Bush was only what he claimed...an Air National Guard pilot who flew one of the hotest and demanding fighters of his era?
There's too much fact in your article...I'm sure the third party wackos will be along soon to dispute every point.
"The Real Military Record of George W. Bush: Not Heroic, but Not AWOL, Either"
And most important:
NOT HIDING OUT AT OXFORD
I'm sure the third party wackos will be along soon to dispute every point.
Oh, why not, CWO?
The third party wackos need something to entertain themselves. They're pretty lonely out there, what with all the proliferation of ' *, -, .1% ', etc, etc next to their candidates names.
Remember 'TSTM' on lab tests? 'Too small to measure'. That's the plight the third party types are into, and we shouldn't overly begrudge them their entertainment. Which is to dispute every point favorable to Dubya.
.
"Bush spokesperson Dan Bartlett told Georgemag.com: "You take that exam because you are flying, and he was not flying. The paperwork uses the phrase 'suspended from flying,' but he had no intention of flying at that time." "
AH, ANY member of the Air National Guard who used the "reason" that he "had no intention of flying at that time" WOULD have gone STRAIGHT to the AFs equivalent of the Navy's brig. WHAT happened? Peace and love, George.
True enough. Some of them do tend to get a little excited about the Governor's military record...every since they found out Buchanan and Clinton served in the same outfit together.
Right on time...here they come!
THANKS SO MUCH FOR THIS POST!!! I love knowing Bush can refer to the known Liberal magazine as doing the proper investigation necessary before they, like Gore made false accusations! I hope Gore has the nreve to even suggest he is lying. Bush can make him look more than desperate. Bush can then follow up with, "he'll say anything to get elected."
BUSH/CHENEY 2000!!!
Very little of the lying about the Governor's military record has been publicly coming from the Gore camp...most of the BS has been coming from some the also ran supporters.
May I add:
His commanding officers name was turnipseed. now that's a funny name. are u sure that's not gores commander's name?
George Bush did not travel to a foreign country, lead demonstrations against his country or burn the American flag. The rapist perjuring traitor Clinton did.
AH, ANY member of the Air National Guard who used the "reason" that he "had no intention of flying at that time" WOULD have gone STRAIGHT to the AFs equivalent of the Navy's brig. WHAT happened? Peace and love, George.
Do I look like a Bush press spokesman? I just post 'em. Peace and love back at you, AHerald. ;^)
Looks to me like GWB served and fulfilled his commitment. Vietnam was begining to wind down and there was no reason not to release him early to go to school. Probably would up saving the Guard money in the long run. What is noteworthy is that he made up the missed time and then some when he was out of his unit area.
Bush is a modest man and never did overhype his military duties, unlike Gore who greatly overstated his exposure to danger in his few months in Vietnam.
Enjoy
As a former Air Force flight surgeon with about 100 missions in the F4-E let me tell you that anyone who flies in a high performance fighter is putting his A** on the line for country. Certainly more so then ol Bubba at Oxford or even Gore in the Saigon bars. And how many of the snotty press creatures have even smelled JP-4?
Amen. Ditto.
every since they found out Buchanan and Clinton served in the same outfit together.
Right you are. Let's not forget that Pat had a "crick" in his knee come draft physical day. "I can't march with the other guys, doc. I'm a 4f, right?"
Now let's have some explanation as to why Al Gore only had to serve 5 months in Vietnam...
They're pretty lonely out there, what with all the proliferation of ' *, -, .1% ', etc, etc next to their candidates names.
ROFLMAO!!
A few months ago there was a wonderful letter about GW from his flight instructor posted here at FR. Does anyone know the link, I couldn't find it doing a search? Incidently, his flight instructor thought very highly of GW. Control of a fighter plane, control of a typewriter...my vote goes to GW.
Send as copy to~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bugged Eyed Begalla~~~~~~~~~~~~~~and then start the lawsuit if he rants on and on about George's lost military service.
Clinton wasn't hiding out at Oxford, he was visiting Communist countries and learning manipulation techniques at the feet of the masters. I thought no one read George anymore since John Jr. died. After all, the only thing they ever published worth looking at was his nude body.
As a former military avaitor, I must correct you. You CAN take yourself off of flight status at anytime, and not end up in the brig. Regardless of whether it's personal reasons, proficiency, or just plain old fear, the military would much rather have you on the ground so that you don't plant one of their expensive jets in a smoking hole. I have seen this happen on three specific intances in the 7 years I flew high performance jets. Once during the Gulf War, and twice during state-side peacetime. It is infinitely more dangerous to fly jets, even in peacetime over South Texas, than it is to write articles in a secure compound in Vietnam like your "man" gore did. I have many dead friends from my flying days, and by far most did not die in combat, but died in day to day training accidents. It's obvious to me that you are not a Bush fan, but a pinko-socialist gore supporter that loves this non-dirt on Bush. Just how do you explain gore failing out of Divinity school, or bringing up the back end of the curve at Harvard? How your side can question Bush's intelligence mystifies me when we look at gore's past performance. And yes, I did not capatilize the G in his name on purpose. He doesn't rate the caps. Much less the office.
This was recently sent by Tom "Baby Huey" Lockhart to his former VietNam flight leader (when they were flying up north in Thuds):
You appear to be a staunch Republican and supporter of George W. Bush, and I thought you might be interested in my experience of last weekend.
You may not know or remember, but I instructed George W. in the T-38 at Moody AFB after I returned from my first tour in SEA. I guess because I was the first Thud pilot to complete 100 and return, I was regarded as the local hero and wild man, and G.W. and I hit it off right away. He definitely had the fighter pilot "attitude" and went on to fly F102’s with the Texas Guard. I visited with the Bush family in Houston on my way to D-M to check out for my second tour. GREAT PEOPLE!!!
He was in town last weekend visiting with the McCains at their ranch in Sedona. When we came in from dinner Saturday night, there was a message from George W. on our answering machine saying he was sorry we couldn’t connect but he would try to call again before he left town.
Sunday morning, I had a charter flight departing Sedona and had to leave home about 0800. I may have been gone 5 minutes, when the phone rang, and Jan answered. When a strange, but familiar, voice asked for Tom Lockhart, Jan said he wasn’t here, was this George W. Bush? and received an affirmative. She told him I would really be sick to have missed him but was on my way to the airport on my Honda Goldwing. He answered that he, too, was on his way to the airport and maybe we could meet up there.
I was stopped at the Secret Service roadblock and unable to get into the airport, when a car screeched up, the driver asked my name, and then said "Come with me...QUICK!!" He led me out onto the ramp where I parked my motorcycle right beside the jet. G.W. came running down the stairs and threw his arms around me in a big bear hug. He called his wife Laura out of the airplane to introduce us. I told her I had known him even longer than she had, and she informed me she had heard those stories.
He introduced me to the McCains, telling John that I was probably on his RESCAP or at least flying sorties during that period. He told him I had gotten my silver star when I was a lieutenant and that I was one of his flight instructors. (Not a bad memory for someone you haven’t seen for more than 30 years.) I remarked that this time around, I get to call him "Sir."
I assured him the retired gang and the military personnel we know are solidly behind him, and that we will work our asses off to get a fighter pilot into the White House.
It was really a "feel good" experience for Baby Huey! Check 6.
,
Ragtime,
Couldn't find the orginal post, but is this the article you were talking about? (It's originally from LewRockwell.com, FYI)
"Looks to me like GWB served and fulfilled his commitment"
Well, no, he didn't. And the article is proof. He simply disappeared from May 1972 to May 1973. And then extra time was tacked on at an on-paper only unit in Colorado as some sort of "punishment." You don't hear the Bush campaign mentioning that Colorado tour of duty, do you?
Thanks for the info, Glock17. Very helpful.
"Bush is a modest man and never did overhype his military duties"
BULL. In his campaign literature for his failed congressional campaign, he claimed to have served with the United States Air Force. He finally did get slapped down over that "embellishment."
Thank you for posting this. Even though the author's conclusion is faulty, and based simply on a torn and undated scrap of paper with no name on it, the printing of this in George gives great legs to the bad news that the GOP candidate was delinquent in his military service.
The story adds further proof of the arrogant coverup of this being waged by the Bush campaign, dishonoring veterans and their families everywhere.
Isn't there a street corner you should be mumbling on?
Donnie Cochran, former Flight Leader of the Blue Angels, did this very thing. Whatever reason. I once saw a Blue Angels show where one of the wingmen left the Diamond, for safety reasons, and just orbited the field until time to land.
Bush's dad was a pilot, and I have no problem with him becoming one, too.
From the article.....
In the spring of 1972, however, National Guard records show a sudden dropoff in Bush's military activity. Though trained as a pilot at considerable government expense, Bush stopped flying in April 1972 and never flew for the Guard again.<>There is very little in that article that is favorable to Bush. That which is favorable is unsubstantiated.Around that time, Bush decided to go to work for Winton "Red" Blount, a Republican running for the U.S. Senate, in Alabama. Documents from Ellington Air Force Base in Houston state that Bush "cleared this base on 15 May." Shortly afterward, he applied for assignment to the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron in Montgomery, Ala., a unit that required minimal duty and offered no pay. Although that unit's commander was willing to welcome him, on May 31 higher-ups at the Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver rejected Bush's request to serve at the 9921st, because it did not offer duty equivalent to his service in Texas. "[A]n obligated Reservist [in this case, Bush] can be assigned to a specific Ready Reserve position only," noted the disapproval memo, a copy of which was sent to Bush. "Therefore, he is ineligible for assignment to an Air Reserve Squadron."
Despite the military's decision, Bush moved to Alabama. Records obtained by Georegemag.com show that the Blount Senate campaign paid Bush about $900 a month from mid-May through mid-November to do advance work and organize events. Neither Bush's annual evaluation nor the Air National Guard's overall chronological listing of his service contain any evidence that he performed Guard duties during that summer.
On or around his 27th birthday, July 6, 1972, Bush did not take his required annual medical exam at his Texas unit. As a consequence, he was suspended from flying military jets.
Bush has his records, why doesn't he show them?
You may have noticed that even the Bush spokesperson Dan Bartlett has never claimed that his source of information is from the military records. WHY NOT?
Is Bush letting him and others tell their story as they believe it when he knows better. That is what Clinton did. Remember? Then all the Clinton supporters used the false information in their debates. This smells the same.
If anyone has access to the records, produce the facts. This guy Finally, The Truth ... claims to have records from a FOIA request. If he is on the level Bush is far from clean and his spin team is spinning false information.
Again. Why doesn't Bush show the records?
Cheers.
And no members of the Army National Guard ever served with the United States Army, either. And the South Carolina Air National Guard F-16 pilot I once met, who's a pharmacist in 'real life', was trained by whom?
Isn't there a street corner for you to be mumbling on?
As a former Air Force flight surgeon with about 100 missions in the F4-E
Many years ago I worked on the design of the APQ-120 for that one.
I've heard pilots say that the F-4 was testament to the fact that if you put enough engine on it, even a brick will fly.
Now let's have some explanation as to why Al Gore only had to serve 5 months in Vietnam...
Yes, I would like to see a similar chronology for Algore:
1. Date of enlistment
2. Original term of enlistment
3. Time in Basic Training
4. Assignments prior to Vietnam
5. Date sent to Vietnam
6. Date returned from Vietnam
7. Date of discharge
Do you have any facts to contribute to this discussion?
Do you think bumping this thread is helping GW ?
Cheers.
NOT HIDING OUT AT OXFORD
Nor in Russia or in Czechoslovakia..
Not hiding out at oxford, organizing anti american rallies, or taking side trips to the Soviet Union during a winter sight seeing jaunt.
Albore served five months in Viet Nam, got an early out to go to Divinity School....during which time he flunked more classes than he passed. Another proud moment for the Gore family.
he claimed to have served with the United States Air Force.
Maybe you didn't read the whole thing:
The younger Bush fulfilled two years of active duty and completed pilot training in June 1970.
That's full time active duty "with the Air Force". The Air NG does not have pilot training bases. The Air Force provides them for the Guard and the Air Force provides the training pilots - such as the one whose letter appears on this thread.
That alone is more time that Algore spent in the service. And it is two years more than Pat Buchanan served.
Do you have any facts to contribute to this discussion?
Yes, anyone who uses the TomPaine.com article--which is refuted here--as a source is as credible as an OJ defender.
Its basic conclusions: Bush may have received favorable treatment to get into the Guard, served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, but he did accumulate the days of service required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge.
Why do you Freepers bother arguing with Anti-Bush pond scum? Bill Clinton has NO credibility! Algore has NO credibility! And by extension, the supporters of such lying, cheating, traitors have absolutely NO credibility.
Freespectively Yours,
PF
G17, Thanks for the correction. Though I agree whole heartedly with you on al gore. But, I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two Gs. Peace and love, George.
VOTE BUCHANAN / FOSTER - REFORM 2000 TO WIN!!! FREEDOM!!!! LOL :^O
The rebuttal to this article may be found posted here on Free Republic at George Mag Wrong
That and, 'Follow the smoke, find the Phantom.'
I've always liked the Phantom...
In July, the Decatur Daily reported that two former Blount campaign workers recall Bush serving in the Alabama Air National Guard in the fall of 1972. "I remember he actually came back to Alabama for about a week to 10 days several weeks after the campaign was over to complete his Guard duty in the state," stated Emily Martin, a former Alabama resident who said she dated Bush during the time he spent in that state.
I read some where long ago that the National Guard stopped using the jet Bush had been trained to fly. The guard made the decision not to retrain him in the new plane because he didn't have enough time remaining in the guard to warrant re-training him.
The way they holler, you'd think GWB had gone to Viet Nam with a type-writer and bodyguard for 4 1/2 months.
Bush might not have a Medal of Honor but his military record far surpasses that of the draft-dodging Clymer in the WH today. Bush's record beats Gore's--who was never in danger. Flying jets was more dangerous than reporting.
And how do we know these "Viet Nam vets" really are what they claim to be.
I think it's funny anytime a Democrat supporter becomes concerned about anybody's military or record as Governor. Bill Clinton. ROFLMAO !!
"but he did accumulate the days of service required of him for his ultimate honorable discharge. "
THEY WERE PAPER DAYS....ON PAPER ONLY. He was assigned to a six month paper duty at a unit in Colorado. PAPER ONLY. This is a scandal larger than even Bush.
"two former Blount campaign workers recall Bush serving in the Alabama Air National Guard in the fall of 1972. "I remember he actually came back to Alabama for about a week to 10 days several weeks after the campaign was over to complete his Guard duty in the state," stated Emily Martin, a former Alabama resident who said she dated Bush during the time he spent in that state."
Emily Martin (George's former girlfriend) can only attest to the fact that George TOLD her he was doing duty. She did not take him there or have any other first hand information. She says he TOLD her he was doing it.
Her statement is belied by the military records. There is NO record of Bush service in Alabama and the commanding officers have stated that he did not report for duty.
I've heard pilots say that the F-4 was testament to the fact that if you put enough engine on it, even a brick will fly.
Quote:
Being a fighter pilot -- for that matter, simply taking off in a single-engine jet fighter of the Century series, such as an F-102, or any of the military's other marvelous bricks with fins on them -- presented a man, on a perfectly sunny day, with more ways to get himself killed than his wife and children could imagine in their wildest fears.-- Tom Wolfe, The Right Stuff.
Dubya- Another Whore Overtly Lying.
Anytime he was doing active duty for training he was considered on active duty in the USAF and was paid as such. So he was not in error to say he had served in the USAF.
What courage and confidence to fly an F-102.
Imagine clinton ever even thinking about same! He does courageous things like block off Pennsylvania Avenue.
Also I'd like to know if he Enlisted or volunteered for the draft. If he enlisted he did not save another from Carthage, TN of being drafted because enlisting does not reduce the quota for draft of the area. If he did volunteer for the draft, then the quota could be reduced by 1.
Why do you Freepers bother arguing with Anti-Bush pond scum?
Oh, a number of reasons...(of course, these are my personal observations only)
1. While most of us are fairly conservative, we actuallly are fairly compassionate.
So, we're willing to expend some effort trying to help the befuddled find their way to enlightenment.
2. I suspect that most of us believe in the "first do no harm" prinicple. If we can help these
folks without applying some of Tipper's psychoactive pharmaceuticals and just use conventional
talk therapy...we do that first.
3. And when we realize we've got a real winner on our hands, we just shake our heads and
wonder if some of these folks are this bitter at this point...what will they do with
themselves after Dubya is elected? I hope they don't try that prescription pharmaceutical
that the National Lampoon had a wonderful "advert." for in their issue on Psychiatry:
"Terminalin, available in .22 short or .22 long rifle". And I hope they stay away from sharp objects.
.....THEY WERE PAPER DAYS....ON PAPER ONLY. He was assigned to a six month paper duty at a unit in Colorado. PAPER ONLY. This is a scandal larger than even Bush. .........
Nuttie......
Get some help.... during the draft, if I remember correctly, you had a 6 yr obligation...... thus with his early out he had an additional 6 months plus to serve on inactive reserve status before final and complete separation..... Thus the paper assignment to an inactive unit in Co.
I was drafted.... Served two complete years and them place on paper in an inactive reserve unit..... Subject to 2 weeks training for the first two years and nothing the last two years..... Thus I was still considered a part of the military on paper until the end of that 4 yr. stint in the inactive reserves..... The same with Gov. Bush..... he was placed on inactive reserve status until his full time (6 years) was completed........
Any military people out here..... please verify or explain this better....
Now let's have some explanation as to why Al Gore only had to serve 5 months in Vietnam...
Does the saying, "Hirin' you waz like losing three good men!" have relevance here? By getting Algore the hell out of country freed up a bunch who were assigned to babysit him!
You stated..."Yes, anyone who uses the TomPaine.com article--which is refuted here--"
Which part of it was refuted here? The only thing attempted was the AWOL aspect. By definition Bush was AWOL(Away With Out Leave). He did not report for assigned duty, he does not claim to be ill, he did not seek to be excused. He was AWOL.
You also asked....."How does someone go AWOL and yet receive an honorable discharge?"
The operative word is compromised. If you recall the Colonel that Clinton took advantage of didn't take any action or tell anyone until years later. The people who allowed Bush to skate were compromised. They took the path of least resistance, so to speak. Had it been you or me, we would have most likely been court martialed and sent to VietNam.
Cheers.
LOL!
This article says that Bush didn't go AWOL and then offers as "proof" a torn slip of paper with no name of the serviceman it supposedly refers to---to mention of who placed the notes on the page and no dates.
That torn scrap of paper is worthless.And when do they say Bush showed up?
On November 29, 1972?
LOL! His last reported day on duty prior to this lame charge was was April 16, 1972.
Bush went AWOL. The George story's only new document is that torn, nameless, unsigned document
The George story is so weak that I have to wonder if Gore had it written to draw attention to the story.
Questions are going to be asked tomorrow about who wrote those annotations on the "torn document."
And the answers are going to give the whole AWOL story a big boost
This is a tired old story. I personally had a part in knocking it down in my letter to the editors of the Dallas Morning News in late June. At that time their reporter Wayne Slater was flogging it, saying that in late 1972 GWB was avoiding his military duties at a time when many young American men were worried about being drafted and sent to Vietnam.
Unfortunately for them, the facts as I personally experienced didn't square with Mr. Slater's smear. And upon presentation of my evidence, and its appearance on their website, Mr. Slater's story died its rightful death.
In short, my story was thus: I was drafted in Nov. 1971, at a time when draftees were no longer being sent to Vietnam. In Feb 1972, at my transfer station at Ft. Lewis, WA I met Vietnam vets waiting in transit, volunteering to return to SE Asia. They were angry because they and all other VOLUNTEERS were not being allowed to go. When I asked why they wanted to return, they surprised me by saying they wanted the additional $50/mo. combat pay and the "amenities" available in the support areas of the theater.
The rest of my 2 years was marked by a massive military drawdown, with personnel being discarded wholesale. Draftees were let go 3-6 mos. early and young officers 6-18 mos. early. It was also a time of dreadful morale among the "lifer" personnel, with many of their careers about to be terminated. They spent many working hours figuring angles to stay in, or preparing resumes for work on the outside.
Therefore, to suggest that Gov. Bush, in 1972 or LATER, had to pull strings to avoid service in Alabama doesn't pass the laugh test -- the Reserves and National Guard were plugged with people like me, whom the Army were trying to desparately trying to get rid of, and who were a bother to the career military people who were rightly trying to protect or procure their own slots.
Investigate GWB. I welcome it after the haphazard job that was done on Clinton in 1992. But for the sake of accuracy, let this false rap dry up and blow away.
Thank you, AH, that's the article! Thursday's combined tragedies of the Cole and the Palestinian/Israeli fighting brought all the usual Clinton/Gore military suspects to our living room.The straight-talking Stormin' Normin' could reassure a nation. Who would Gore bring on board?
Yeah. Glide ratio was 1:1. The Emergency Procedures manual stated " Out of control below 10,000 ft- EJECT." Still it was a hell of a plane.
Something else you might want to add..
The reason Bush didn't fly the Deuce in 1972 is because NOBODY was flying it by then. It was almost completely out of service by then (the final ones were phased out of the NG by 1976). There's no way the military was going to waste the time and resources keeping someone current in a plane that was not flying anymore. And as you stated above, once the Guard didn't have any use for you, you pretty much disappeared.
And why take a physical to fly if they weren't going to let you fly?
Therefore, to suggest that Gov. Bush, in 1972 or LATER, had to pull strings to avoid service in Alabama doesn't pass the laugh test
Thank you , Elvis, for bringing up this point.
The fact is that WHILE the war was raging Bush was a good little trooper, and he showed up for duty. Once the chance of his behind being shot off had passed Bush lost interest in the Guard and went AWOL
BTW, Elvis--you also made it clear why Gore was sent home early
Of course Gore did so by instruction, Bush just went AWOL
Why did you think that posting the truth about Governor Bush's service would quiet down the Gore supporters on FR? As you can see it has only emboldened them to new heights or the absurd.
My comments DON'T validate any of your ludicrous points. 1. In '72 and '73 the career military personnel were coming up with creative ways to get non-career people like me, and by extension, GWB out of the Services. They wanted the slots. They were under orders to get us (and a lot of them) out. 2. The military in the early '70s, with its rock-bottom morale, pervasive drug use, etc. was just plain screwed up. After serving 2 reluctant years after conscription myself, I never served 1 day of Reserve time -- it was that screwy. 3. In 1970 the war was still near its peak. Al Gore got out after serving 5+ months in Viet Nam. I won't comment on that oddity, because I was not there.
Did you see post #65. Which part was refuted? This article does not refute anything.
Cheers.
Bumping to address the current Bob Kerry crap on CNBC.
They are 'attacking' Bush's service record. That usually means they don't want anyone looking into Al's. Great point!
Keep it bumped.
Once the chance of his behind being shot off had passed Bush lost interest in the Guard and went AWOL
And once Albert Gore Sr. lost his election and didn't need a son in the military anymore, Al managed to get himself out of a year commitment in give months.
So much for going to Vietnam so somebody else wouldn't go in his place.
Many thanks to Colonel Lockhart USAF for the following REPORT:
Lt. George W. Bush's Instructor Pilot Speaks Out -- Sets the Record Straight Subject: A Personal Letter of Observation of Lt. George W. Bush by his former Instructor Pilot Colonel Thomas G. Lockhart, USAF (Ret) Fellow Veterans:
I have heard about all I can stand of the military careers of the two presidential candidates. It's like two combatants arguing about who's Purple Heart carries the most weight. I have seen e-mails "splitting hairs" and making unsubstantiated claims against both candidates. I will not engage in this type of childish name-calling. The official records indicate that both individuals completed their military service obligations and received honorable discharges.
I can, however, give you some personal observations upon which I base my opinion of Governor Bush. George W. Bush arrived at Moody AFB, Georgia, for undergraduate pilot training (UPT) in 1968 as a member of the Texas Air National Guard. I was assigned as one of his Instructor Pilots. The atmosphere at this training base was somber and dead serious, as the student pilots were all either going to Vietnam or subject to being called up for combat duty as members of a Guard or Reserve unit.
George W. Bush put himself totally into the task of becoming the best aviator in the class. His unit flew Century Series jet fighters, which required the best pilots. There was no room for error, as these airplanes were unforgiving, and the price for a mistake was often the pilot's life. George W. Bush appeared to have that "fighter pilot attitude" from our first meeting. This attitude can best be described as: "I can handle the situation--regardless of the odds." He was extremely competitive and eager to learn every thing about his machine and the enemy's tactics. He was quick to pick up the flying skills necessary to maneuver an aircraft into a position to shoot down an enemy aircraft.
Being a fighter pilot is truly like being a modern day gladiator. When two jet fighters meet in combat, there is usually only one survivor. It is the ultimate test of your skills, and you must hone these skills until you have complete confidence that you will be victorious--that in the air you are invincible. Cocky? You bet!!! That was the attitude that saved England during the Battle of Britain, when a small cadre of British fighter pilots turned back the German onslaught. "Never have so many owed so much to so few," were Winston Churchill's words describing the RAF victory. This standard is part of the heritage of every fighter pilot.
The traits which, I believe, made George W. Bush a good fighter pilot and would also make him a good president are: a.. Leadership -- a "take charge" attitude. b.. Stamina -- when the going gets tough, the tough get going. c.. Sincerity -- a love of country and care for your fellowman. d.. Integrity -- knowledge of and willingness to act upon honest principles.
My personal bottom line used to be, "Would you follow this person into combat?" Well, I'm a bit old now for combat, but I respect George W. Bush's leadership abilities, and I would follow him anywhere!
Respectfully submitted, Colonel Thomas G. Lockhart, USAF (Ret)
that says it all june 6, 1972 george herbert walker bush suspended from flying for failing to take a physical-why sir?why did this happen?
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