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With the DOW on the verge of extinction, and NASDAQ dead in the water, our savior, Lord Alan Greenspan, from the Church of Inflation Salvation, located in Swizerland, whose center of operations in the USA is New York, decided to open up the spigot and flood the banking system with virtual money.
In the last two years, his holiness actually hiked rates six times, presumably because of inflationary pressures (too much money in the system). Considering the market's price range at the time of today's cut is exactly the same range as where the previous rate hikes occurred, one must wonder what the heck is going on over there at the venerable halls of Lord Greenspan's church.
In 1999, the DOW and SPs (old economy) were dead in the water. A hungry, spoiled mass of stock speculators became disenfranchised with the 'old' economy, because, truth be told, the 'old' economy was as dead as the market indicated. With the reality of NASDAQ internet an illusive fantasy, Lord Greenspan and his cronies had nowhere to put their money.
Then the Federal Fiat Ponzi Reserve Scam (FFPRS) decided, under the guise of the 'need for liquidity' ahead of a potential Y2K 'crisis', Lord Greenspan massively flooded the banking system with 2 Trillion of new money in late 1999. This money found it's way over to NASDAQ, and was generously distributed to and through Goldman, Merril and Morgan.
It did not matter that there was no underlying fundamental economic reality in the NASDAQ sham of late 1999 through the spring of 2000. What mattered was that the money was deposited somewhere.
With the explosive flood of money came millions of suckers (and a few lucky speculators) who actually believed there was something to that rally; as if some powerful underlying, fundamental, economic reality was driving the move. So when the time came for the FFPRS to call in all those fiat credits (allegedly 'dollars'), as the Y2K disaster never materialized, it was time for the big boys to sell, finding countless suckers to sell to, who have by now either taken the loss, or are still holding the bag from much higher prices.
What is truly amazing is how the economic conditions have actually deteriorated further from mid 1999, but now that the NASDAQ dot com fundamentals have proven to be pure empty smoke (as they were from the beginning, and as they always shall be -- for the most part, assuming the model for what is laughably referred to as the 'new' economy), if we look at the DOW, suddenly there has been a revival of interest in DOW, while NASDAQ losers take what they have left and dump back into the DOW.
But if the DOW ('old' economy) was dead 2 years ago, and the economic conditions for the 'old' economy have softened further, it strikes me as nonsensical to make the same bet that was going nowhere two years ago. Unless, of course, the FFPRS is going to 'bail out' the losing bet by once again inflating the money supply, which they just did.
The last thing we need, for starters, is the FFPRS, but as long as these phallus heads are empowered by the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 to screw us, the next to last thing we need is to have them continuing to inflate the money supply into infinity.
If we look at the economic circumstances of the 'old' economy of 1999 through 2000, as reflected in the DOW and SPs, what we see is an economy that is stagnant, devoid of growth. It was never a matter that there was not enough credit available to make the businesses grow. It was/is simply a matter that the so-called 'old' economy businesses were/are not either productive enough, inovative enough, or were/are simply selling to the public goods at prices the public did not want to pay. They did not need the FFPRS to pump more liquidity into the system, they needed a better idea, new ideas, better products, more competitive pricing, etc.
But since the 'old' economy was dead in the water for the reasons just mentioned, the investing public, hungry for new economic activity, a new source of productivity, new ideas, new sources of growth, etc, such being non-existent in their minds, at least, (and in all liklihood their assesment of the 'old' economy was right), spoiled by double digit monthly returns, they fled the DOW and SPs, and were fooled into thinking there was something to the 'new' economy. After the first blast of new money flooded into NASDAQ stocks in early 2000, they started buying high, and buying into the lie that one can make money by giving everything away for free.
But it was all just a big sham. The 'old' economy was dead, the 'new' economy was pathetically worthless, for which reality finally hit home (thank God for a little reality) leading to the sinking of the NASDAQ index.
So here we are today. We have come full circle. Today, the DOW was ready to give up the ghost, but just in the nick of time, the market savior flooded the banking system with new money, and the buying frenzy ensued on Wall Street.
It used to be that a company's stock price would rise and fall depending on the strength of its REAL assets, bottom line earnings, prospects for future growth, management, etc. Old fashioned nuts and bolts economic reality.
Today we have indisputable proof that what drives the stock market up and
down is the FFPRS manipulation of the money supply. The only thing that
changed today was more money got pumped into the banking system. The 'old'
economy did not need more credit; they are already awash in credit. We saw
with the 'new' economy that even though they were given more credit than
they possibly ever needed, they still failed!
Continued from above ...
So why, oh why, oh why does the FFPRS feel that there is a need to pump even more 'money' into the banking system? Since the credit is not needed, and even when it was supplied produced nothing, there has to be a reason. I am sure there are many, but one reason is to manipulate the market to create the appearance that all is well. Another is to continue to destroy the value of your savings, bringing us further down the road to economic bondage that a fiat money scam inherently brings. And another still is to make sure the FFPRS has enough new money to pay for the interest on debt they created, all of which comes out of our pockets through the accompanying devaluation of our savings, and our very lives, forced as we are to work even harder to keep up with the acceleration of price increases that fiat inflation produces (rate decreases = money supply increase = inflation = higher prices).
In all ways the FFPRS has us coming and going. By controlling the money supply with such a tight, and manipulative grip, serving their interests, and the interests of their political cronies, of whatever party, all at our expense, we are always one step behind.
If they lower rates, prices accelerate past our incomes' ability to pay in cash for goods and services to the point where we need to borrow for everything essential to life, for the rest of our lives. This forces us to give the best of who we are to the banks forever. If they raise rates, this collapses money supply, and then we lose our income, so that even if the prices are low, our incomes are still too low to afford the low prices.
This is what it means to have a central banking system. The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 should be rescinded, the cartel disbanded, and the return to securing our paper notes to gold. Otherwise you will be trapped in a game of trying to out fox the FFPRS, and I can assure you that is a game you cannot win, are not winning, no matter what you may say or think. If you are doing well today, you'd be doing 100 times better without a cartel of central bankers working day in and day out to compromise your wealth.
It is a shame few people really understand all of this. It is even worse that there are proselytes of the devil that will support the FFPRS. But that is only because they are either ignorant or complicit in the scam.
For now, all appears to be well with the market, but no amount of money can save an economy that lacks productivity, productivity hampered by socialistic, environmental policy, and the confiscation of natural resources by the govt through executive order. When we throw in high taxation, over regulation, and even worse, lack of imagination, even though the FFPRS can paint the chart for a day, I say this latest manipulation will not do anything to support the market, and it will fail, and fail badly.
We do not need the FFPRS, we do not need their credit. What we need is to end the govt strangulation of business though over regulation and taxation, some new, good ideas, some REAL productivity, all tied to a stable dollar, secured by gold, that cannot be manipulated by fiat bankers, and then we will see real prosperity, not the phoney garbage we are looking at today.
Lord Greenspan, you blew it. The market will sell off anyway. Ha Ha.
Bump it to the top.
What we need is to end the govt strangulation of business though over regulation and taxation, some new, good ideas, some REAL productivity, all tied to a stable dollar, secured by gold, that cannot be manipulated by fiat bankers, and then we will see real prosperity, not the phoney garbage we are looking at today.
I was with you until you got to "gold," which is, singularly, the worst investment in the last thirty years. Why back up our money with something that's used for jewelry?
We have real prosperity, unless you think 4% unemployment is some CFR conspiracy. The dot.com boom was never real, there's too much taxation, and too much regulation.
But gold? Get real.
Communism & International Bankers
Communism & International Bankers
"I was with you until you got to "gold," which is, singularly, the worst investment in the last thirty years."
Gold was a pretty good investment to those people who held pesos, rubles, drachmas, ect that got severly devalued over the past decade. May look pretty good here too if the Arabs, Japanese, Europeans, Chinese, ect who hold billions of dollars decide they'd rather hold something that can't be created out of thin air.
Billions for the Bankers - The Real Story of the Money Control Over America
THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK IS A PRIVATE COMPANY
THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK IS A PRIVATE COMPANY II
Heads up.
OK, than pick something else. Something REAL. Not just airball fiat money based upon nothing except the whims of central bankers, and those they sleep with.
Even so, whether gold is worth more or less in terms of federal reserve fiat dollars, it is still, imo, the best store of value. It has ancient roots. Problem is, though, it is for the most part held by foreign countries. If the USA told the FRS to go to hades, you can bet that FRNs would bot be tradeable for gold. Probably take a military strike to recapture the metal, and get it back to a depository in the USA.
Of course there is still an even more hideous and diabolical problem. We have a govt filled with corrupt politicians who have no integrity. Hard to say who is worse to manage the value of money, the devils at the FED or the devils in DC.
Nonetheless, a gold standard, and strict rules, with better oversight is far better than the FED. I'll take my chances with a constitutional provision rather than the current banking cartel.
Thanks for the articles. Will read with interest. Uh, no pun intended, lol
May look pretty good here too if the Arabs, Japanese, Europeans, Chinese, ect who hold billions of dollars decide they'd rather hold something that can't be created out of thin air.
Yep. But if "ifs" and "buts" were beer and nuts, we'd have us one hell of a party.
I've been hearing this stuff for twenty years, and the Arabs, Japanese, Europeans, and others just keep investing in the ole dollar.
It's a real bitch for all those gold bugs out there, I know.
Excellent. Have you seen the following?:
I guess Greenspan is suffering from Clinton/Gore Disease.
Gold and Economic Freedom - Alan Greenspan
Chapter 6. "Gold and Economic Freedom" by Alan Greenspan.
Alan Greenspan, The Founding Fathers, and Gold
An almost hysterical antagonism toward the gold standard is one issue which unites statists of all persuasions. They seem to sense, perhaps more clearly and subtly than many consistent defenders of laissez-faire, that gold and economic freedom are inseparable, that the gold standard is an instrument of laissez-faire and that each implies and requires the other. In order to understand the source of their antagonism, it is necessary first to understand the specific role of gold in a free society.
Even in the present century, two major commodities, gold and silver, have been used as international media of exchange, with gold becoming the predominant one. Gold, having both artistic and functional uses and being relatively scarce, has always been considered a luxury good. It (gold) is durable, portable, homogeneous, divisible, and, therefore, has significant advantages over all other media of exchange.
A free banking system based on gold is able to extend credit and thus to create bank notes (currency) and deposits, according to the production requirements of the economy. Individual owners of gold are induced, by payments of interest, to deposit their gold in a bank (against which they can draw checks). But since it is rarely the case that all depositors want to withdraw all their gold at the same time, the banker need keep only a fraction of his total deposits in gold as reserves. This enables the banker to loan out more than the amount of his gold deposits (which means that he holds claims to gold rather than gold as security for his deposits). But, the amount of loans which he can afford to make is not arbitrary: he has to gauge it in relation to his reserves and to the status of his investments.
When gold is accepted as the medium of exchange by most or all nations, an unhampered free international gold standard serves to foster a world-wide division of labor and the broadest international trade. Even though the units of exchange (the dollar, the pound, the franc, etc.) differ from country to country, when all are defined in terms of gold the economies of the different countries act as one, so long as there are no restraints on trade or on the movement of capital.
Under a gold standard, the amount of credit that an economy can support is determined by the economy's tangible assets, since every credit instrument is ultimately a claim on some tangible asset. But government bonds are not backed by tangible wealth, only by government's promise to pay out of future tax revenues, and cannot easily be absorbed by the financial markets.
The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit. They have created paper reserves in the form of government bonds which through a complex series of steps the banks accept in place of tangible assets and then treat as if they were an actual deposit, i.e., as the equivalent of what was formerly a deposit of gold. The holder of a government bond or of a bank deposit created by paper reserves believes that he has a valid claim on a real asset. But the fact is that there are now more claims outstanding than real assets.
In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold. If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept checks as payment for goods, bank deposits would lose their purchasing power and government-created bank credit would be worthless as a claim on goods. The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.
This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the hidden confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.
"On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business."
"If the American People ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property, until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied. The issuing of money should be taken from the banks and restored to Congress and the people to whom it belongs."
Thomas Jefferson
Wow! You amaze me, Uncle Bill.
Bumping that!
Yes, I have read that. Truly amazing that Lord Greenspan is now the point man for the very system he was so critical of in his younger years.
Too much dealing with the devil will get to anyone. To get a popular groundswell to dump the Fed is akin to making an avalanche travel uphill.
It is a d* shame, to be sure. It takes a while for the truth of the matter to sink in. I started reading, and studying so many years ago. Today I am as clear as the blue sky. But because the solution is messy and many are blind, I have doubts about the success of killing the banking beast.
Even to call it 'banking' is a euphamism. Stealing is a much better word.
So why, oh why, oh why does the FFPRS feel that there is a need to pump even more 'money' into the banking system?
Because Greenspan et al see danger of another domino credit deflation (like in 1998) triggered by what appears to be the imminent collapse of my California electric utility. (That is, "save" the bank lenders.) He needs to create market conditions that would cause potential lenders to lock in "higher rates". This done by signalling a policy change towards lower rates.
Oh --- and he's a key member of the Plunge Protection Team that seeks a "soft landing" to the imminent collapse of our financial asset bubble. They hope to influence major fund buyers to commit funds whenever the Dow appears to tank below 10,000. So far the market indices have been flat for over two years - excepting for the Nasdaq bubble....The last thing we need now is for foreign investors to pull out.
Stocks may rally a few more days or spurt to 13000+ -- before really collapsing. That is when foreigners leave and most fund managers think investing in cash is cool....that will begin the real "nuclear winter".........
Yes, I have read that. Truly amazing that Lord Greenspan is now the point man for the very system he was so critical of in his younger years.
I for one am glad he did. It is rare for me to find anyone who would defend Greenspan from a libertarian perspective. I feel I must today - because your post is very thoughtful...and right on target.
The Chairman of the Federal Reserve is a political appointment. Politics is the art of the possible. Given the immense power of the FED, I think Greenspan simply tried to influence political and financial events AS IF THE GOLD STANDARD WAS IN FACT OPERATING. (He talks about "poor measurement" etc -- I think all he means is that he can't easily fathom what a free market under the gold standard would do...He is trying to divine the exquisite adjustments of the "invisible hand" of a free market. And then he must seek CONCURRENCE on policy with the other Members - not easy to do..)
Both Volker and Greenspan's have been very successful in managing monetary policy to help create the boom since 1980. This is best shown by the inexorable decline - for almost a generation - in the price of gold.
Greenspan has had to deal with a number of serious crises that the fractional reserve system is often subject to. He acted swiftly in capacity of "lender of last resort" in the 1987 stock crash (Despite my respect for him, James Baker's rantings and threats at the German Bundesbank caused severe declines in the dollar price, retrenchment of foreign investment and - after the market decline - a near-collapse of the entire payment system), the 1990 Saddam Hussein caper (with Western access to oil in jeopardy), the collapse of Asian economies, the Russian international bank credit default in 1998, the Long Term Capital Management default in 1998, the Y2K risk (quite real in key respects), and now the California electric utility default risk. (It seems my dear Tree-Loving California Governor Gray Davis met privately just last week with Greenspan ...probably to save the utility and California business by seeking help for the banks that lent (or need to lend) it critical funds.)
Greenspan has dealt with these crises the SAME WAY that a JP Morgan would prior to the inauguration of the Federal Reserve System....he would get the principal players together INSTANTLY, find out what short term funds were needed by whom, arrange for them with the right Lenders (Banks?)AND MAKE IT ALL HAPPEN WITH FEW QUESTIONS ASKED. Short term success was quickly reflected in the stock market indices that measure investor confidence ...The alternative of NO ACTION is unthinkable for those who want to avoid short term financial collapse and chaos.
Again inn 1994 the FED sought to avoid a slow-down and began to create needed credit --- BUT the FED was not able to extinguish it fully (not as fully as the Y2K credit extension resulting in the speculative NASDAQ rise and collapse). And so the GREAT FINANCIAL ASSET BUBBLE was created. Greenspan knew this, has warned us about it and has caused only a stall in market indices ... sofar.
The same thing happened in 1928-1929 with then FED Governor Strong. He accommodated Britain with a low interest policy in the USA. The funds fed stock market speculation from 1928-1929. Strong knew there would be a financial collapse unless certain actions were taken. He died....the actions were not taken...and the financial collapse was devastating...Roosevelt, a statist, running on a conservative platform, was elected over Hoover (a Republican moderate statist)....and the rest was history.
For all of us --- I wish for Greenspan continued health and interest to serve us --- clearly the markets and I trust him. But today, there is no self-regulating gold (or even gold exchange) standard....and YES, that is why we must seek to bring such a standard about, removing the FED, when the time is right....For as Ayn Rand would say, the philosphical and academical foundations for removal of the CENTRAL BANKING SYSTEM is NOT THERE YET.
Greenspan knows this....Only a major financial collapse would cause this generation to value first CASH and then GOLD...
Greenspan's relationship to Clinton needs to be better explained.
Greenspan knew that if Clinton could deliver enough centrist Dem votes he could muster a majority for supporting his plans.
Clinton used the "triangulation policy" to pre-empt Republican policies.
Clinton raised taxes and ultimately created a budget surplus! UNTHINKABLE for a THIRD WAY POLITICIAN. (He also severely re-engineered the Welfare System -- just as Nixon, the Republican, was able to forge a political link to Mainland China.
This served Greenspan and Clinton equally well....Guess what?...we got more conservative values implemented than we would have otherwise.........
Thanks-I just posted the question about who is he? Doesn't he more or less rule? It seems like that's the job to have if you want power, if you want wealth, if you want to rule the United States. Freedom seems like a faint glow in a distant galaxy!!
Thoughtful posts all, but it is time for the ponzi scheme to end. Cold turkey means a wicked crash, because the entire house of cards is built upon their fiat money. A determined group, disconnected from the FED needs to figure out a way to phase out fiat so we can get real.
A very large percentage of the nation's national resources have been confiscated to secure fiat debt. A very poor exchange for us; great for the bond holders -- foreign ones that is.
If we do not wish to be servant to the banks, it is time for the FFPRS to go. And they can take their income AND property tax with them!
Whoops! Meant for you ...
Thoughtful posts all, but it is time for the ponzi scheme to end. Cold turkey means a wicked crash, because the entire house of cards is built upon their fiat money. A determined group, disconnected from the FED needs to figure out a way to phase out fiat so we can get real.
A very large percentage of the nations national resources have been confiscated to secure fiat debt. A very poor exchange for us; great for the bond holders -- foreign ones that is.
It is time for the FFPRS to go. And they can take their income AND property tax with them!
Ron Paul has a group that is working on getting rid the fed and going back to the gold standard.
Clueless---------LOL!Why do so many people in a household have to work?Because the cost of inflation has buried everyone into debt via inflation.The American dollar is worth only 4 cents compared to its value in 1940!Go ahead and invest in fiat worthless federal reserve notes because every note you spend will cost you,your children and your childrens children greater debt and inflation.You sound like you have a real handle on the value of intrinsic money.It's strange that a large mass of this GOLD is being held in banks all over the world.I wonder why?Don't argue with history because only a fool would.
Why do so many people in a household have to work?Because the cost of inflation has buried everyone into debt via inflation.
Talk about clueless!
Taxes are higher than they've EVER been, and many women CHOOSE to work to be able to afford bigger homes, newer cars, etc.
You're welcome to chase after gold and follow its advocates; I've done well in the stock market over the last thirty-five years.
If I'd held gold for that same period, it would be worth about 12% more than what I paid for it.
TWELVE PERCENT ain't much over 35 years.
I guess you didn't purchase gold in the 20's when my family did,They made millions so don't argue with me over the value of gold!
Why are taxes so high,could it be that we are a nation buried in debt via the fed?Your comments make no sense at all.If we didn't have fiat currency we wouldn't be in debt to begin with and there would be no tax burden and inflation!
"ARTICLE 1, SECTION 8 OF THE CONSTITUTION STATES THAT CONGRESS SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO COIN (CREATE) MONEY AND REGULATE THE VALUE THEREOF. "
I'm extremely displeased with you otherwise well intentioned people, you know who you are, who quote Art1, Sec 8, and simply add the word "create" in parenthesis into this article.
If the founders wanted it there, they would have put it there themselves. Since it is not there, they must not have wanted it there. When used as a noun, coin is synonymous with specie. When used as a verb, coin means to take gold or silver billets, press it into a sheet, punch the sheet to produce round blanks, and press the blanks to impose an image on both sides that identify the specie for what it is.
This money is not created. It is coined.
Created money is worthless paper printing press money or other forms of fiat money that has no backing.
The words the founders provided for us in the Constitution are sufficient. Coin is a technical term with a definition, a meaning. There is no need to rewrite the Constitution.
it is time for the ponzi scheme to end. Cold turkey means a wicked crash, because the entire house of cards is built upon their fiat money
A wicked crash - say to Dow 4000 - will retrace the last 6 years of fast rise. Unless GWB deals expertly with that crash, he will be cast as another Herbert Hoover ....followed then by a "born-again-Goldwater-conservative" Dem Presidential winnner -- Hillary Rodham....UGH..
All Ponzi schemes inevitably end in either a hard landing or in a soft landing...I think Greenspan knows this....if the so-called soft-landing scenario fails this year (it is most likely to) I would rather have GWB than Clinton lead any reconstruction efforts....This is traditional Republican clean-up-the-Dem expansionary-excesses the first year in an administration...Sets up a potential recovery for the midterm elections and surely for the next Presidential election.
Clinton was actually most useful. Got Dems to pass the line item veto (which Bush knows how to use). Backed the Republican welfare reforms. Got Dems to "fight for" balanced budgets. Led Dem rhetoric for "paying off the national debt". Supported much-needed bank de-regulation left over from the Thirties. ...Now, if we can get Republicans to recommit to the same goals???
If the Ponzi game does crash hard soon, CASH will be much more valued than say Dot.Com call options (hehe) or worthless credit papers. THEN GOLD may regain its true role as the asset of last resort.
FYI, some NWO folks, like the Elder Bush, are (have been) advisors to major gold companies like American Barrick.
Unfortunately, a true Gold Standard will have little political support...Inflation is such a flexible and hidden taxing instrument. But then...a Gold Exchange Standard with bullion set at say $2000 (?!!) an ounce might be attractive to most Central Bankers and those let in on the scheme early!!...This gold revaluation scheme could be combined with one of those Biblical forgive-the-debt of Third World Nations...great PR...
it is time for the ponzi scheme to end. Cold turkey means a wicked crash, because the entire house of cards is built upon their fiat money
Above post to me was meant for you!...Now I'm doing it...
A supporting thread of what I just said. Perhaps you have already seen it. If not, it is here
snip...The power to "coin money" means to strike off metallic medals (coin), and to make those medals legal tender (money); the Constitution says expressly that Congress shall have power to make metallic legal tender, how can it be taken to say by implication that Congres& shall have power to make paper money legal tender?...snip
Powerful Points Uncle Bill.
how can it be taken to say by implication that Congres& shall have power to make paper money legal tender?...
It can't be.....
We're back up!
test
Isn't paper money legal tender if it is backed by metal?
We know Ron Paul, and maybe one or two other congressmen, support dumping the Fed. But it must be done incrementally or it would cause economic damage that could take a generation and a half to correct. Same with replacing the federal income tax with a national sales tax, two things I support by the way.
Well this post ? Jan 9 11:45pm EST
test bump, my self search leaves off with 1-4-2001. does anyone know why that is?
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO POSTS FROM 1/4/00 TO 1/9/00???? I HOPE THAT THIS WILL SHOW UP.....
Obviously it will take some serious planning to make the transition away from the cartel. All people want is stability and strength in their monetary system, without being subjugated to at will inflation and deflation of the money supply, all at the whim of the banking cartel, for their profit and benefit (plus their cronies), at our loss.
Devising a transitional scheme is a key to sucessfully trashing the FFPRS. It is not that it is impossible, but next to it, because very serious players have obtained, and hold, enormous power as the result of it.
You think the demagogery (sp?) of the democrats is bad, just wait for the banking cartel's economic specialists to kick in high gear. When it comes to lying, the defenders of the fiat game put the democrats to shame.
The good news is the FFPRS was put into power by an act of Congress. Thus it exists subject to the will of the people through their elected representatives. All it takes is a good argument, a good transition plan, 51 votes in the senate and 220 votes in the house, and a signature of the president, and poof, the banking cartel is put out of business.
System up???
Very interesting. Thank you.
Sorry to sound uninformed. I have a very basic knowledge only of this subject. Isn't it true, also that if the cartel were "poof" destryoed with a good transistion plan, that the national debt would be null and void, furthering the economy by eliminating a large part of the federal budget, allowing taxation to come down, and ultimately put MORE money into the economy, legitimately?
The debt would not be necessarily eliminated. But once the gold standard is applied, the amount of federal fiat notes required to obtain that gold would go through the roof, as fiat notes attached to air would not have the same value as dollars attached to gold.
Foriegn debt is collateralized by the vital natural resources of the USA. They'll be looking for repayment of all their money spent on bonds. But since their bonds' monetary basis is fiat money, the value of the bonds would collapse. It is a matter then of how aggresively they would pursue repayment, and in what form. Conceivably this could start a war over the sharp devaluation of fiat based money.
Thus, determining the TRUE value of currentlt held fiat based assets will become the critical task. The fiat money represents something. But as to exactly what it is, and how much it is worth in gold becomes the central question.
Once that is determined and agreed upon, then new notes are issued, backed by gold, to replace the fiat. The fact of the matter is, however, no matter how you slice it, the real value of fiat money, in terms of what it might represent (labor, future earnings, a lien on real property, etc) is nowhere close to what the fiat money assigned valed might indicate. This is where the heart of the controversy lies.
And this is why the fiat game has led us into such a nasty trap. The short term pain o repricing assets based on gold backed money will more than likely produce serious pain. The wake up call of reality can cause a jolt. But the longer we wait, the worse it gets.
"With the DOW on the verge of extinction, and NASDAQ dead in the water, our savior, Lord Alan Greenspan, from the Church of Inflation Salvation, located in Swizerland, whose center of operations in the USA is New York, decided to open up the spigot and flood the banking system with virtual money."
==============
Oh my…where to start…where to start.
Let us start with the first statement: " With the DOW on the verge of extinction…" For starters, that is not only false, it is utter foolishness. On what do you base such an absurd statement? Hardly necessary to answer, for there is no logical, factual answer to justify the silly first statement to you thesis. And what is more amusing is that you go downhill from there.
Why not try to justify the first sentence, then we can move on to the rest of this rather regurgitated rant against the Fed and all the silly nonsense about fiat money and gold.
Donny, take a deep breath, and slowly remove the foot from your mouth.
If you'll notice the date and time of my post, you'll note that it was at the close the day the FED blew up the market. That was when the DOW was at 11,000.
Here is the LAST thing I said, in case you did not read it:
"Lord Greenspan, you blew it. The market will sell off anyway. Ha Ha. "
I clearly said the market would fade the fed. The DOW is now 500 points lower. If you want to keep buying into this thing, go right ahead. I suspect you have not been doing much reading up on the Fed ponzi scam. Read a book, and then make an intelligent reply.
For starters, that is not only false, it is utter foolishness. On what do you base such an absurd statement? Hardly necessary to answer, for there is no logical, factual answer to justify the silly first statement to you thesis.
This is a classic quote. Thanks.
"Read a book, and then make an intelligent reply. "
Well, I have read a book or two and the "intelligent reply" is in your court. You posted a lot of foolishness. I asked you to try and back up just one of your statements and you failed. It is apparent you have little core knowledge of economics or finance. It would appear you are a classic internet "gold bug". Do you sell gold and/or gold futures? Just curious... ;)
Dr Suess books do not count.
You are an ass, basically. If I did not know what I was talking about, I would not have known that the Fed would be faded.
I walk the walk. In my world, I rely on ecomomic REALITY. Economic theory is for idiots like yourself who pivk their nose while they get screwed. And you are getting screwed. But you, like many others, do not realize what is happening. You are the frog in the pot.
If you knew anything about price action you'd know what was going on with the DOW on 1/3/01 before the FED showed up. If you read my essay, you'd understand that the only thing that drives the market is NOT economic reality, in the classic terms I outlined, but it is driven by the manipulation of the money supply by the ponzi masters you defend.
I just hope you got caught buying the highs. One of these days Forest Gump trading wont work. But as long as the FED needs to protectr its turf by inflating the money supply whenever they run the politcal risk of fiat BUST (read market crash) then Forest might continue to get lucky still.
The fiat scam is bad news. The FED is in a bind. They cannot allow the market to crash, because that could lead to a political erasure of their control over our savings, natural resources, and futures. But they also cannot allow the money supply to overinflate either, because that leads to wheel barrow fiat notes.
So they are engaged in a game to somehow avoid fiat wheel barrow notes, without allowing the money supply to collapse. In the first case, the results would be instantaneously disasterous for the FED. In the second, the product they manufacture (fiat money backed by nothing and worth nothing) would by the sheer over supply lose its value anyway, and they go out of business.
Many people are too dumb to know what is going on. And the masses are taken advantage of. But the FED is nervous here because they know the truth -- fiat money is ponzi all the way. At some point producing too much to protect itself leads to a confidence crisis among large players around the globe.
They are walking on a tight rope above niagra falls right now with YOUR economic future in THEIR hands. You are in a lose lose situation right now where if they inflate to save themselves your savings become worth-less as they are headed into wheel barrow country. If the market crashes, the federal reserve fiat money might escape wheel barrow status, but then the number of them will deline from your acct, and you might even lose your job as a result.
Should we allow bankers to have this much control? But then you are probably too deply in debt to realize what that means. Only a complete idiot, when confronted with the truth, would want a central banking cartel to have this type of dominion over their lives.
Your patently insulting remarks are matched by mine to you above. You are obviously an idiot. Hence, your opinion does not really count. For you to imagine that there is NO evidence to support the FACT that the bull is in trouble, reflects blind faith. That remark you made almost by itself provides the evidence you are looking for.
If people like you get lucky again, it is NOT because of any underlying economic activity in the classic sense, as I described already above, it is ONLY because Uncle Alan hit the button, and flooded the money supply with more fiat air.
But it is interesting that even after the air ball, the market faded anyway. The point is the FED is throwing their fiat air at the market, and are making a utterly transparent attempt to manipulate the market. The need for more fiat air is NOT what the market needs. The market needs to get RID OF THE FED, and needs to get the economy placed squarely on a bedrock foundation of economic reality attached to those items I have already outlined.
What you simply do not understand is the market price levels have no connection whatsoever to the real value of companies. Nobody really knows what that level is, but if I were to express it in fiat money terms, I would say that a measure would be the DOW trading back around 2000 - 3000. It could be higher, maybe lower, but the point is at these levels what we have just witnessed was the cat coming out of the bag.
Faced with the fact that an economy already saturated with 'money' not able to generate economic strength, the fed decides to inflate. Easing is a desperate act of self (FED) preservation. Even by their standards the money supply is totally overblown. We are staring at a money supply bubble, NOT true economic activity. But the FED can sustain the big lie because they can push a button and flood the banking system with 'money'. It is truly amazing they have gotten away with it for so long. But then lots of ignorant folks like you out there.
Still, even by the FEDs standards of hide and seek, it is getting pretty hard to hide the money supply bloat. They have been trying to tame the explosive money supply growth (which they need to stay in business) over the last two years, without a fiat money induced BUST happening. Well, the SOBs have been tweaking this thing for over two years up here. Two years ... Two years trading at the highest levels of all time ... How lucky Forest becomes is only for the future to tell. I just hope forest realizes that his bet is based squarely on the audacity of a corrupted mechanism of money supply bloating to 'keep it going'. If you were paying attention, somebody took a shot across the bow of the FEDs credibility. And it wasn't a rwo bit loser like you. More like several large players who manage billions of dollars. The FED might fight back by easing more, and continuing the flood of new fiat air. But without the necessary REAL economic essentials, that are clearly missing, and have been for over two years, how credible is it, even by the fiat masters own standards, to throw money where there is NO productivity to meet it? That is pure manipulation for self preservation, and unless there is a REASON to keep flooding the market with money, the gameplan to prop the market up, at these levels, will fail.
And what is the deal with DonnyO? Donny Osmond? I am supposed to get financial advice from a guy who has Donny Osmond for a handle?
There are some great essays on Federal gold price manipulation at http://www.goldensextant.com/
Anyone who thinks gold is no longer money should read this. There is a massive effort to keep the price of gold down. This is killing production and creating shortages that are harder and harder to meet.
By the way, Kurt Richebacher believes that inflation in the US has been running at around 5% per year using the measuring system that was used pre-Xlinton.
What we need is to end the govt strangulation of business though over regulation and taxation, some new, good ideas, some REAL productivity, all tied to a stable dollar, secured by gold, that cannot be manipulated by fiat bankers, and then we will see real prosperity, not the phoney garbage we are looking at today.
Gold. Hmmm. Worth less against the dollar today than in 1975. Hmmm. Let me run right out there and put all that money I successfully earned in equities and stick it into gold.
You have it backwards. It is completely irrelevant how many federal reserve notes it takes to buy an ounce of gold. What is relevant is gold is a genuine store of value. Fiat money has no intrinsic value, it is tied to nothing, and by a fiat whim, the value of your assests, yes even gold, can be destroyed by the manipulation of the money supply by the federal reserve. Many people just do not get it.
You sold today, right?
b
57 Posted on 11/06/2001 15:05:53 PST by satch
58 Posted on 12/14/2001 01:39:08 PST by Zadokite
59 Posted on 02/07/2002 15:21:49 PST by spoosman
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