By JOHN HOPKINS
© 2001, The Virginian-Pilot
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Customer won't be charged for killing teen-age robber
By JOHN HOPKINS
© 2001,
The Virginian-Pilot
PORTSMOUTH -- A Portsmouth man who shot and killed an 18-year-old robber of an Alcoholic Beverage Control Store in Churchland on Dec. 22 was justified in his actions, according to the Commonwealth's Attorney.
The 41-year-old man was a customer in the store when Neshion N. Claiborne of Suffolk entered the store with a gun about 6 p.m., ordered six customers to the floor and made store employees fill a bag with cash, prosecutors said. The customer, who has legal permission to carry a concealed weapon, shot the teen several times as he headed towards the door with the money.
Commonwealth's Attorney Martin Bullock, after reviewing the case and store videotape, said he believed the customer was ``reasonably'' under the opinion that he may be ``killed or seriously injured by the robber as he was fleeing the store with the money.''
``The customer who shot and killed the gunman who was robbing this ABC store, killed the robber in self-defense,'' Bullock said Wednesday at a news conference. ``And therefore, the killing was a justifiable homicide. The customer will not be charged with killing Neshion Claiborne. I repeat, the customer will not be charged with killing Neshion Claiborne.''
The teen robber was shot several times in the back and several times in the front, Bullock said. The teen's mother, Gloria Copeland of Suffolk, said Wednesday her son was shot at least eight times.
``That's the wrong way for anybody to pay for a crime,'' she said, crying. ``It was wrong. God knows it's not right. You don't want to know my feelings. Lord knows you don't want to know my feelings.''
The armed customer, crouching near a counter and fearing for his safety, fired first after making eye contact with the robber, Bullock said. The customer was not going to ``wait to be shot,'' Bullock said.
The teen returned one shot that came within 18 inches of the armed customer and another person, Bullock said.
It appears that some shots were fired at the teen after he was outside the door.
``We do know that some shots were fired through the door,'' Bullock said. ``But our belief is that as he was falling out the door, the customer continued to shoot.''
Police dispatched to the robbery found Claiborne's body and stolen money outside of the store, prosecutors said. Results of an autopsy were not available Wednesday.
Police and prosecutors are not releasing the customer's identity or the videotape of the robbery. The customer has declined to speak about the shooting.
Bullock said the man was ``extremely sorry'' that he went into the store that day and extended his prayers to the family of the teen.
Police said the investigation is ongoing and that there may be others involved in the robbery. Because of the investigation, they are not releasing some details and video of the robbery.
At the time of the holdup, there were six employees inside the store. They all complied with the robber's demands and escaped physical harm, Bullock said.
Claiborne was buried Sunday, said Madelyn Mizell, his aunt. He was the father of a 6-month-old son. Mizell said she doesn't believe police or prosecutors' version of events that evening.
``He was shot down in cold blood and it's not right,'' Mizell said. ``Why did he shoot him so many times? . . . That's not justice.
``He was shot in the back. Self defense? How can they let this man go when he was shot in the back? That ain't self defense. That's murder.''
Philip Van Cleave, vice president of Virginia Citizens Defense League, said it's difficult to second-guess the customer's actions when he faced a life-or-death situation.
``A lot of us walk around with the fear of just this happening,'' he said. ``People cheer when the bad guy loses. And that's the bad guy losing. Especially in Virginia, where people hold the rights of a law-abiding citizen above the rights of a felon.''
Virginia Citizens Defense League is a grass-roots, pro-gun organization formed in 1994 to change concealed weapon laws in the state. There are nearly 100,000 Virginia residents with permits to carry concealed weapons, Cleave said.
Portsmouth's shooting is one of many cases across the country of law-abiding citizens defending themselves, he said.
``It sends a very strong message to the criminals not to do this,'' he said. ``They now know they're playing Russian roulette. Any one of these people could be private citizens carrying a concealed weapon. . . .
``He took his chances and he lost.''
Reach John Hopkins at 446-2793 or jhopkins@pilotonline.com
Wah ! The poor robber! Sob ! I've heard conflicting accounts as to how many shots hit the punk, the local radio station gave a completely different account.
The VA. Pravda is a rabid anti-gun rag though.
I say good shooting to the citizen that ridded the local community of yet another parasite.
Unfortunately though, yesterday morning, a clerk at a convenience store in the same town was shot & killed
``That's the wrong way for anybody to pay for a crime,'' she said, crying. ``It was wrong. God knows it's not right. You don't want to know my feelings. Lord knows you don't want to know my feelings.''
Just maybe she should have taught her son the difference between right and wrong.
"Why did he shoot him so many times? . . . "
Nervous twitch on the trigger.
I'd be interested to see if the two holdups are related and surprised if the media reported it if they are. It is sad to see a mother lose her son, but perhaps she should have done a better job of explaining the risks pointing a gun at people. A lot of us do not take kindly to that and are prepared to react in just this fashion. For too long we have been told to submit and give them what they want. I think this type of response, far from being vigilantism, will do a lot to bring these armed robberies to an end. As for him being shot too many times...like Dirty Harry says, "...in all the excitement, I don't know if I fired 5 times or 6...". You just keep firing until the threat is stopped. Dead or otherwise.
Why did it take the customer so many shots?
If I were the judge, I would sentence him to a couple of shooting lessons at a local range. Next time, he won't need so many shots.
I tend to appreciate William Johnstone's philosophy -- when you make the conscious decision to embark upon a criminal course of conduct, you give up any and all rights vis a vis your intended victims. If the cops get there first, that's fine -- they have to abide by constitutional restrictions in order to prevent the state from usurping too much control over the lives of private citizens. But when the state is not around, the citizens have a moral and ethical responsibility to ensure that someone who is committing a violent crime will not harm any law abiding citizen. No one should ever be allowed to second guess whether a law abiding citizen was correct in pulling the trigger.
It's harsh for the boy's mother, but he made the decision to put all the employees' and customers' lives in danger, and he showed a willingness -- by walking into that store armed -- to kill someone for a bag of cash. That's what's not right, and you don't even want to know my feelings about any a$$(^%# who would dare to threaten any innocent person for his pathetic greed.
bold off
The customer, who has legal permission to carry a concealed weapon, shot the teen several times as he headed towards the door with the money.
To me, the Second Amendment guarantees every law abiding citizen in America legal permission to carry.
Results of an autopsy were not available Wednesday.
Lead poisoning, perhaps?
``People cheer when the bad guy loses. And that's the bad guy losing. Especially in Virginia, where people hold the rights of a law-abiding citizen above the rights of a felon.''
If the fine citizens of the District of Columbia want congressional representation, they need to become a city in Maryland.
Sounds like Virginians won't tolerate their nonsense.
"He took his chances and he lost." What a line!
Philip is a friend of mine and a great guy. He's also handling VCDL activities in the Richmond, Virginia region.
Too bad the thug had time to reproduce!
You don't want to know my feelings. Lord knows you don't want to know my feelings.
We do, however, want to know why you failed to impress upon your son that he should not steal.
I agree with you, good riddance to the scumbag.
Notice how many times the article mentions the word "Teen" as if this punk was some grade-schooler. He was an adult that made his own decisions, obviously bad ones.
Nice shooting by the CHL holder.
The teen robber was shot several times in the back and several times in the front, Bullock said. The teen's mother, Gloria Copeland of Suffolk, said Wednesday her son was shot at least eight times.
Sounds to me like the good guy needs to go up in caliber. Not bad shooting though, to make 8 hits in that kind of stressful situation.
"Why did it take the customer so many shots? If I were the judge, I would sentence him to a couple of shooting lessons at a local range. Next time, he won't need so many shots."
He was probably using a small caliber handgun. I'd sentence him to an upgrade. After all, he hit what he was shooting at.
Very well said. I am standing and cheering. This is bad news for the mother, and I cannot blame her for whatever her feelings are right now. Hopefully later she will have a more lucid moment and the sad truth will hit her. In the meantime, society has one less threat to her citizens.
Glad to see we have one less criminal on the streets.
Nice shooting, yes. Unfortunately he'll probably have to defend himself in a civil wrongful death suit now. Just about every liberal media outlet in that area is screaming that the mother of this "poor misunderstood dead teen" should sue...
....Great replies - all ! #6 should be emblazoned in law-school textbooks.
This punk will end up on the "killed with a firearm" BATF list pushing for confiscation of personal firearms.
That was good shooting under the circumstances. The good guys win one!
I sure hope some organization and people get behind this guy with cash and expertise to support his case in court. Don't want to lose this one!
You don't want to know my feelings. Lord knows you don't want to know my feelings.
What does the Lord feel about your sons feelings about stealing. Jesus describes thieves as those who only want to steak and destroy. Killing is built into the bible definition of thievery. A Christian should not be willing to kill for a bag of money but in the heat of armed robbery I think the Lord may impose quite a penalty on the perp through the Christian.
The good news is that the 6-month old son won't have to grow up with a poor excuse for a father. The bad news; we will be supporting the son on Social Security for the next 17 1/2 years.
"Why did he shoot him so many times? . . . "
Answer: To make sure he was dead (no longer a threat).
Maybe she needed to put a belt on that boy's butt when he was younger and acting out his antisocial behaviour.
God knows when your 18, it's real easy to do stupid things, but fear of a belt when your younger can be a strong influence when you're making choices later in life at the age of 18.
Well... I guess that Neshion the felon won't be voting democrat from jail.
Well... I guess that Neshion the felon won't be voting democrat from jail.
Yes, but being dead has never stopped democrats from voting before.
I guess that Neshion the felon won't be voting democrat from jail.
No -- he'll vote Democrat from the graveyard.
This punk will end up on the "killed with a firearm" BATF list pushing for confiscation of personal firearms.
Not only that, but he will be another 'child under 19 killed with a handgun' statistic.
Well... I guess that Neshion the felon won't be voting democrat from jail.
We don't know that for sure. He may still vote as a dead person.
>> Not bad shooting though, to make 8 hits in that kind of stressful situation. <<
Especially when you consider all the reports of cops emptying 15 round mags and not hitting with any of the shots.
Anybody know what he was shooting?
>> The bad news; we will be supporting the son on Social Security for the next 17 1/2 years. <<
AND that the same people who "raised" his father will be "rasining" him,and will be whispering in his ear about how "the white man murdered your father when you were just a baby.". Count on it.
Something else. Why isn't anyone asking where this 18 year old got the handgun he was using in the armed robbery,and why isn't his previous criminal record (and you KNOW he has one!) being written about in the paper?
Poor baby......well, that's what happens when you start pointing loaded guns (hell, even if it wasn't loaded there isn't a sign on the gun that says so) at people. I don't have much sympathy for anyone who gets shot when they point a gun at another person, with a few exceptions....
Unfortunately, you are correct. He will be in the second fight for his life because the mother and the media will not accept the truth of the situation. The CHL holder that shot the criminal probably saved someones life in the not too distant future by ending the criminals career.
I have read several articles on self-defense by such people as Jeff Cooper and Chuck Taylor. One of the points that they make in these articles is that police marksmanship has actually gone down since the introduction of the high-cap semi-auto duty gun. Seems that when the revolver was king, and you knew that you only had six before a reload, you made them count.
Don't know what cartidge the CHL holder was shooting, but my guess from the number of rounds shot and the number of hits taken is that it is the 9mm Para.
Good shoot.
Use a gun, go to Hell. It's the law.
"Why did he shoot him so many times? . .
Because the magazine wasn't empty.
killed with a firearm" BATF list pushing for confiscation of personal firearms
It's "W's" BATF in a few more days, maybe he will put a stop to that BS.
How big was the pattern?
How big was the pattern?
I assume you mean "group", not "pattern"?
Well I hate to say it. Cops have been doing it a long time...."make sure he can't sue."
Sorry, my mistake. Just had a brain f**t.
Bump! Hooray for concealed carry . . .
"Why did he shoot him so many times? . . . "
If you are shooting someone to save your life is it not obvious that they are going to get more then one bullet? What are you going to fire once and wait and see how effective it was???
Good shooting.
``It was wrong. God knows it's not right. You don't want to know my feelings. Lord knows you don't want to know my feelings.''
Bad things happen to people who act badly. Religious morality is really a KINDNESS, which everyone ought to pay attention to. If the perp had heeded the Commandment against stealing, he might be alive right now. As it is, he heeded the moral-liberal message of selfishness, hedonism, and disregard for society's member's rights, and he's facing his judgment now instead.
>>I have read several articles on self-defense by such people as Jeff Cooper and Chuck Taylor.>>
My wife and I had the privilege of training under Chuck Taylor, he's a wonderful teacher and speaker.
It's too bad that this CCW-holder will probably have to spend money on a lawyer for a civil suit. The good news is that any right-thinking jury will dismiss. The bad news is how do you make sure you get a right-thinking jury?
Maybe she needed to put a belt on that boy's butt when he was younger and acting out his antisocial behaviour.
I think that's actually a crime now. You'd probably be put up on child abuse charges.
How big was the pattern?
I don't think he was toting a concealed shotgun.
And where are the touching pictures of the family of the man who successfully defended himself against an armed felon?
And where are the touching pictures of the family of the man who successfully defended himself against an armed felon?
And where are the touching pictures of the family of the man who successfully defended himself against an armed felon?
And where are the touching pictures of the family of the man who successfully defended himself against an armed felon?
Don't know what cartidge the CHL holder was shooting, but my guess from the number of rounds shot and the number of hits taken is that it is the 9mm Para.
Is 9mm not adequate? How about with hollow points? In the next couple of months I'm gonna get my first handgun and I want something compact to fit my hand well. I'm thinking of a H&K .40S&W Compact or .45 Compact. Suggestions?
One more of the 13 innocent children killed by handgun violence every day. Sniff. Weep.
< /sarcasm >
Just maybe she should have taught her son the difference between right and wrong.
That was my thought exactly! The day after this happened the local news, Channel 13 WVEC, for the Tidewater contingent, carried the story from the angle that this kid was the victim and the customer a depraved gun wielding maniac. They interviewed the robber's father and he was asying that the only reason he robbed the place was to get money for his baby and nobody should get killed trying to get money for their kids!!!
If she sues, then the "customer/shooter" should COUNTER SUE her for FAILING to teach/raise a MORAL child; and for the mental stress/anguish he must now endure because he was forced to shoot her criminal son to defend himself and the other customers. We conservatives need to learn to turn the tables on them. I'm sure the lawyer the "customer" must now hire will be willing to counter sue the punk's mom.
nobody should get killed trying to get money for their kids!!!
Rule of etiquette #42: Always ask the robber what he wants the money for before blowing his stupid brains out!!
See #44.
Here's the caption from the picture above as written by the Ministry of Truth:
Ronnel Devett Copeland Jr. holds his 6-month-old grandson Nevett Claiborne Jr. Ronnels son, Neshion, was killed during a ABC store robbery in Portsmouth.
Here is how it should be written:
Ronnel Devett Copeland Jr. holds his 6-month-old grandson Nevett Claiborne Jr. Ronnels son, Neshion, was killed while committing an armed robbery at an ABC store in Portsmouth.
"They interviewed the robber's father and he was asying that the only reason he robbed the place was to get money for his baby and nobody should get killed trying to get money for their kids!!!"
Absolute tripe. Kids or no kids--armed robbery is unacceptable, and the contemptible little twerp got his just desserts.
If his kid needed help, he should have called "Social Services".
I'd be interested to see if the two holdups are related and surprised if the media reported it if they are.
Even if they weren't, the odds are that the robber would have killed someone eventually. The fact that you walk into a store to rob it, and you have a gun, strongly implies that you will shoot if you don't get what you want.
The CCW holder probably saved one or more lives over the long run
And where are the touching pictures of the family of the man who successfully defended himself against an armed felon?
I would have been very upset if they put pictures of my family in the paper if I had done a self-defense shooting against a punk.
You will notice they didn't release the name of the CCW holder. Don't you think the punk has friends who might be interested paying a surprise visit to the citizen and/or his family?
The two choices you mention are great guns, and in good calibers in my opinion. I personally carry a Kahr K-40 Covert in 40S&W. It only holds six rounds but it is small enough so I don't have an excuse not to carry it. I use a Ruger GP-100 .357mag and a Rem. 870 12ga. riot gun for home defense. I shouldn't say "use" because I've never had to use them for that but you know what I mean.
In my opinion, from what I have read and from my own chronograph and penetration test, the 9mm Para. and the 38Spl. are minimum calibers. Actually, the 9mm is probably better than the 38 Spl. in the lighter weight bullets (95gr. - 125gr.). Neither cartridge has a sterling record for bringing fights to a quick end.
Remember this though, it doesn't matter what you shoot at them with if you don't hit them in a vital spot. If you shoot and miss with a shotgun, and shoot and hit center mass with a 22LR., the 22LR will do a better job.
I wondered the same thing. Where did the robber obtain the gun? Purchased? Stolen? Trigger lock? (Obviously not)
The libs are always quick to point out ownership in a firearm mishap that occurs in a home.
As far a for the use of "teen", I have a suspect he was "unemployed, which I find odd, as the press will usually state a persons occupation. I suppose "robber" will have to suffice.
The shooter has declined to be interviewed or photographed, so what he was packing might never be known.
The local radio station said the robber had been hit 3 times, the last, (and fatal?), was when the robber, (now wounded and on the ground), attempted to reach for his gun.
I bet this robber won't do it again.
The teen's mother, Gloria Copeland of Suffolk, said Wednesday her son was shot at least eight times.
Golly gee. We need to let the family of criminals decide now how their darling babies must be prevented from mugging, holdups and burglaries.
This criminal's mistake was using a gun. The new rule is if they don't have a gun, and can outrun the cops, they are home free...
I was curious about that aspect of the Social(ist) Security issue.
I think that in this case, since "poppa" was dusted in the act of commiting a violent ,(gasp) he used a gun) crime, any payment of public funds should be null and void.
Funny story that happened in my old hometown many years ago. One night two young punks entered a convenience store, held the cashier up with a gun, and made off with the bag of money he was putting together for the night deposit.
As they were running out the door, he grabbed his shotgun, went to the door and shot the guy with the moneybag in the back, killing him. He cooly walked outside, picked up his money, went in and phoned the cops, telling them "there's a damned kid laying dead in front of my store," locked up and went home.
This punk will end up on the "killed with a firearm" BATF list pushing for confiscation of personal firearms.
Aw s**t!
I forgot about that.
One of the 16 darlin' children killed by those nasty firearms today.
Shocking! Shocking!
The new rule is if they don't have a gun, and can outrun the cops, they are home free...
As long as they get past CCW citizens who are sick of letting the crooks run the show.
The shooter was black, I know this only due to the local tv and radio accounts.
That is why the Pravda doesn't mention this.
Believe me, if the shooter had been anything but black, they would have played it up.
Believe me, if the shooter had been anything but black, they would have played it up.
Here on Free Republic we have no such problem.
Doesn't matter what the perp's race, religion, national origin, sexual orientation or handicap is...
"Why did he shoot him so many times? . . . "
Every time you are at the range, some time MUST be used in emptying your weapon into the sillouette. You never know how your target will respond. He cannot shoot accurate when bullets are penetrating his felonious body. A .38 cal is not a weapon that stops a criminal. If you hit him in the head or heart, he MAY not get off a shot. Why take the chance? Bullets are cheap, YOUR LIFE IS PRICELESS, his life is worthless.
A good weapon for close dirtbag elimination is a 5 shot .44 cal revolver. This will inflict massive trauma and knock down force.
Thanks for the reply. For home defense I have an H&K Fabarm FP6 12 Guage Shotgun with carbon fibre heat shield. I added a magazine extender and folding stock to it. I also have a romanian AK-47 on stand-by for the revolution ;)
I would have been very upset if they put pictures of my family in the paper if I had done a self-defense shooting against a punk.
You will notice they didn't release the name of the CCW holder. Don't you think the punk has friends who might be interested paying a surprise visit to the citizen and/or his family?
Good point. I was sufficiently irritated by the obvious attempts to elicit sympathy for the perp that I didn't think it through.