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Ten Reasons Why Reparations for Blacks is a Bad Idea for Blacks - and Racist Too

Culture/Society News Keywords: REPARATIONS, SLAVERY
Source: Front Page Magazine
Published: 1/3/01 Author: David Horowitz
Posted on 01/04/2001 09:31:40 PST by Rodger Schultz


One

There Is No Single Group Clearly Responsible For The Crime Of Slavery

Black Africans and Arabs were responsible for enslaving the ancestors of African-Americans. There were 3,000 black slave-owners in the ante-bellum United States. Are reparations to be paid by their descendants too?

Two

There Is No One Group That Benefited Exclusively From Its Fruits

The claim for reparations is premised on the false assumption that only whites have benefited from slavery. If slave labor created wealth for Americans, then obviously it has created wealth for black Americans as well, including the descendants of slaves. The GNP of black America is so large that it makes the African-American community the 10th most prosperous "nation" in the world. American blacks on average enjoy per capita incomes in the range of twenty to fifty times that of blacks living in any of the African nations from which they were kidnapped.

Three

Only A Tiny Minority Of White Americans Ever Owned Slaves, And Others Gave Their Lives To Free Them

Only a tiny minority of Americans ever owned slaves. This is true even for those who lived in the ante-bellum South where only one white in five was a slaveholder. Why should their descendants owe a debt? What about the descendants of the 350,000 Union soldiers who died to free the slaves? They gave their lives. What possible moral principle would ask them to pay (through their descendants) again?

Four

America Today Is A Multi-Ethnic Nation and Most Americans Have No Connection (Direct Or Indirect) To Slavery

The two great waves of American immigration occurred after 1880 and then after 1960. What rationale would require Vietnamese boat people, Russian refuseniks, Iranian refugees, and Armenian victims of the Turkish persecution, Jews, Mexicans Greeks, or Polish, Hungarian, Cambodian and Korean victims of Communism, to pay reparations to American blacks?

Five

The Historical Precedents Used To Justify The Reparations Claim Do Not Apply, And The Claim Itself Is Based On Race Not Injury

The historical precedents generally invoked to justify the reparations claim are payments to Jewish survivors of the Holocaust, Japanese-Americans and African- American victims of racial experiments in Tuskegee, or racial outrages in Rosewood and Oklahoma City. But in each case, the recipients of reparations were the direct victims of the injustice or their immediate families. This would be the only case of reparations to people who were not immediately affected and whose sole qualification to receive reparations would be racial. As has already been pointed out, during the slavery era, many blacks were free men or slave-owners themselves, yet the reparations claimants make no distinction between the roles blacks actually played in the injustice itself. Randall Robinson's book on reparations, The Debt, which is the manifesto of the reparations movement is pointedly sub-titled "What America Owes To Blacks." If this is not racism, what is?

Six

The Reparations Argument Is Based On The Unfounded Claim That All African-American Descendants of Slaves Suffer From The Economic Consequences Of Slavery And Discrimination

No evidence-based attempt has been made to prove that living individuals have been adversely affected by a slave system that was ended over 150 years ago. But there is plenty of evidence the hardships that occurred were hardships that individuals could and did overcome. The black middle-class in America is a prosperous community that is now larger in absolute terms than the black underclass. Does its existence not suggest that economic adversity is the result of failures of individual character rather than the lingering after-effects of racial discrimination and a slave system that ceased to exist well over a century ago? West Indian blacks in America are also descended from slaves but their average incomes are equivalent to the average incomes of whites (and nearly 25% higher than the average incomes of American born blacks). How is it that slavery adversely affected one large group of descendants but not the other? How can government be expected to decide an issue that is so subjective - and yet so critical - to the case?

Seven

The Reparations Claim Is One More Attempt To Turn African-Americans Into Victims. It Sends A Damaging Message To The African-American Community.

The renewed sense of grievance -- which is what the claim for reparations will inevitably create -- is neither a constructive nor a helpful message for black leaders to be sending to their communities and to others. To focus the social passions of African-Americans on what some Americans may have done to their ancestors fifty or a hundred and fifty years ago is to burden them with a crippling sense of victim-hood. How are the millions of refugees from tyranny and genocide who are now living in America going to receive these claims, moreover, except as demands for special treatment, an extravagant new handout that is only necessary because some blacks can't seem to locate the ladder of opportunity within reach of others -- many less privileged than themselves?

Eight

Reparations To African Americans Have Already Been Paid

Since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts and the advent of the Great Society in 1965, trillions of dollars in transfer payments have been made to African-Americans in the form of welfare benefits and racial preferences (in contracts, job placements and educational admissions) - all under the rationale of redressing historic racial grievances. It is said that reparations are necessary to achieve a healing between African-Americans and other Americans. If trillion dollar restitutions and a wholesale rewriting of American law (in order to accommodate racial preferences) for African-Americans is not enough to achieve a "healing," what will?

Nine

What About The Debt Blacks Owe To America?

Slavery existed for thousands of years before the Atlantic slave trade was born, and in all societies. But in the thousand years of its existence, there never was an anti-slavery movement until white Christians - Englishmen and Americans -- created one. If not for the anti-slavery attitudes and military power of white Englishmen and Americans, the slave trade would not have been brought to an end. If not for the sacrifices of white soldiers and a white American president who gave his life to sign the Emancipation Proclamation, blacks in America would still be slaves. If not for the dedication of Americans of all ethnicities and colors to a society based on the principle that all men are created equal, blacks in America would not enjoy the highest standard of living of blacks anywhere in the world, and indeed one of the highest standards of living of any people in the world. They would not enjoy the greatest freedoms and the most thoroughly protected individual rights anywhere. Where is the gratitude of black America and its leaders for those gifts?

Ten

The Reparations Claim Is A Separatist Idea That Sets African-Americans Against The Nation That Gave Them Freedom

Blacks were here before the Mayflower. Who is more American than the descendants of African slaves? For the African-American community to isolate itself even further from America is to embark on a course whose implications are troubling. Yet the African-American community has had a long-running flirtation with separatists, nationalists and the political left, who want African-Americans to be no part of America's social contract. African Americans should reject this temptation.

For all America's faults, African-Americans have an enormous stake in their country and its heritage. It is this heritage that is really under attack by the reparations movement. The reparations claim is one more assault on America, conducted by racial separatists and the political left. It is an attack not only on white Americans, but on all Americans -- especially African-Americans.

America's African-American citizens are the richest and most privileged black people alive -- a bounty that is a direct result of the heritage that is under assault. The American idea needs the support of its African-American citizens. But African-Americans also need the support of the American idea. For it is this idea that led to the principles and institutions that have set African-Americans - and all of us -- free.


 
 

1 Posted on 01/04/2001 09:31:40 PST by Rodger Schultz
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To: Rodger Schultz

This is outstanding..well put! HUGE bump.

2 Posted on 01/04/2001 09:41:19 PST by Frumanchu
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To: Rodger Schultz

Not to mention the fact that reparations such as those required of Germany after the first world war did not satisfy the need to make amends as required by the victors, but set in motion the seeds of the next conflict. The Marshall Plan flew in the face of the received wisdom of the time that the victor was owed by the vanquished. I suppose one could argue that we have had our own Great Society Marshall Plan and now the debt is paid. Reparations are wrong on so many levels as outlined by Mr. Horowitz, but logic never seems to prevail on this issue. Of course it is just a gigantic power and money play, but One must continue to argue it on it's moral points instead of confronting it honestly.

regards

3 Posted on 01/04/2001 09:52:12 PST by okiedust
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To: Rodger Schultz

"But in the thousand years of its existence, there never was an anti-slavery movement until white Christians - Englishmen and Americans -- created one."

********

I wasn't there, but if I was going to bet on what group was first to be "anti-slavery" in America I would put my money on the slaves themselves. Just a thought.

4 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:04:25 PST by republican_boston
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To: Rodger Schultz

In fact all these reparation including money going from Germany to Jews is wrong. The nazi government is long gone and we should not force germans 2 generations removed to pay for the sins of their fathers.

5 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:05:47 PST by Henry Kissinger
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To: Rodger Schultz

I'm not PRO-Reperations, but this article is CRAP!!!!

"Where is the gratitude of black America and its leaders for those gifts?" AHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

6 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:06:35 PST by republican_boston
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To: okiedust

Hey, I just discovered I'm part black.

Gimme money.

7 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:06:51 PST by Post Toasties
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To: Post Toasties

Anyone who wants and expects reparations, I think we should send them a bill for the one-way boat trip, or send them a ticket for the return voyage and escort them to the docks.

8 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:13:19 PST by Fred25
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To: republican_boston

A newbie, 01-01-2001.

9 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:14:01 PST by blam
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To: republican_boston

Care to back up your swipe with anything specific, or should you just be ignored as a blowhard?

10 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:14:12 PST by Post Toasties
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To: republican_boston

"There Is No Single Group Clearly Responsible For The Crime Of Slavery

Black Africans and Arabs were responsible for enslaving the ancestors of African-Americans. There were 3,000 black slave-owners in the ante-bellum United States. Are reparations to be paid by their descendants too?"

*************

So which is it, Horowitz?

If there is no Single group clearly responsible for slavery of Africans in America, than how is it that, "Black Africans and Arabs were responsible for enslaving the ancestors of African-Americans."

and Horowitz says:

"There were 3,000 black slave-owners in the ante-bellum United States. Are reparations to be paid by their descendants too?"

I have no idea whether the statistic is true or not. I quoted this because the answer to his question is obvious.

If all taxpayers are paying reperations than obviously any taxpaying descendants of "black slaver-owners in the ante-bellum United States" would be paying them as well. Again, a poorly written article.

A very poorly written article.

11 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:18:24 PST by republican_boston
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To: Post Toasties

refer to my next post.

12 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:19:14 PST by republican_boston
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To: Fred25

I prefer to look at it this way:

Any government official that votes for reperations should just be tarred, feathered and sent South to Antartica.

13 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:22:28 PST by republican_boston
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To: Rodger Schultz

I think only Democrats should be required to pay reparations for slavery; for everybody else, it should be optional. Slavery was pretty exclusively a Democrat Party institution, whereas almost no Republicans ever owned slaves.

Problem solved.

14 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:23:22 PST by Post Toasties
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To: blam

What's your point? I posted several constructive criticisms of the article that you chose not to read. I am not for reperations, but that doesn't change my opinion of the editorial.

15 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:24:01 PST by republican_boston
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To: Post Toasties

"There Is No Single Group Clearly Responsible For The Crime Of Slavery

Black Africans and Arabs were responsible for enslaving the ancestors of African-Americans. There were 3,000 black slave-owners in the ante-bellum United States. Are reparations to be paid by their descendants too?"

*************

So which is it, Horowitz?

If there is no Single group clearly responsible for slavery of Africans in America, than how is it that, "Black Africans and Arabs were responsible for enslaving the ancestors of African-Americans."

and Horowitz says:

"There were 3,000 black slave-owners in the ante-bellum United States. Are reparations to be paid by their descendants too?"

I have no idea whether the statistic is true or not. I quoted this because the answer to his question is obvious.

If all taxpayers are paying reperations than obviously any taxpaying descendants of "black slaver-owners in the ante-bellum United States" would be paying them as well. Again, a poorly written article.

A very poorly written article.

16 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:25:29 PST by republican_boston
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To: Rodger Schultz

Let's have reparation for all whites mugged and killed by blacks. For property value declines in big cities due to black crime.

17 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:28:30 PST by antinazi
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To: republican_boston

Ok. You've backed up your point:)

18 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:29:28 PST by Post Toasties
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To: Rodger Schultz

I've never owned slaves. Neither did my parents or grandparents. Therefore, I don't owe them a damn thing.

19 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:32:26 PST by boycott
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To: republican_boston

I wonder how the "Black Leaders" would act if confronted with this: I am of Native American Heritage. Given that the Buffalo Soldiers were instumental in killing and herding my Cherokee ancestors am I entitled to reparations from them? Should I not be asking, no DEMANDING huge sums of money for what they did to my people???? What is good for the goose must be good for the gander, PAY UP!!!! Two can play this game. I had nothing to do with slavery however am I suppost to pay for it???

20 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:33:00 PST by reagandemo
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To: Rodger Schultz

One mule and forty acres of land on the African continent with the stipulation that you never return to America would be good reparations for those so obliged.

21 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:35:40 PST by highenergyzone
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To: Rodger Schultz

What about the descendants of the 350,000 Union soldiers who died to free the slaves?

My ancestors were among those who died during the Civil War. Yep, they're dead white men, but the point remains...

So, when do I receive a "reparations" check, hmmmmm?

(/sarcasm)

22 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:36:11 PST by Capitalist Eric
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To: Rodger Schultz

I think that slavery reparations by the US Govt. is an idiotic idea.

However, if certain corporations who profited by the slave trade can be successfully sued on this basis, well, that's just our legal system in action.

23 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:39:49 PST by Post Toasties
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To: Rodger Schultz

As usual, everything Horiwitz says here is perfectly logical and correct. Unfortuinatly, that will not mean squat to the race hustlers pushing for reperations and the illinformed millions who only focus on the glint of gold.

I'd say that we change the argument to a different level. What are black Americans willing to give up in return for this cash bonus?

Will they agree to dismantle all racial quota programs in exchange for some cash?

Will they vow never to play the victim again if we give them a few grand based on the color of their skin?

Will they stop defending every vicious criminal who happens to have the same skin color?

Will they promise to kick the butt of every black hustler who moans about how he was a slave for 400 years?

Will they just stop the pity party if we allow them to dip into the public treasury?

Will they tell Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to drop dead?

If they are willing to do those things, I'd be willing to give them some cash.

24 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:41:24 PST by Ditto
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To: republican_boston

re: #6
"Where is the gratitude of black America and its leaders for those gifts?"

It does seem odd, but that argument has been advanced by black Americans like Thomas Sowell.

25 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:41:37 PST by Rodger Schultz
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To: Capitalist Eric

Mine, too. (really). Two of my ancestors (or their immediate kin) in the Union forces were poisoned by vengeful Southerners during the Civil War.

Come to think of it, Demorats are still that way.

26 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:42:41 PST by Post Toasties
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To: reagandemo

Thank God that as a gay, hermaphroditic, illiterate, disabled black amputee of Navajo descent considering sexual identity surgery I will qualify for several reparation settlements.

My demands are thus: A monthly welfare check not to exceed taxable income limits, the deed to the entire state of South Carolina, two packs of Kools a day for life, and enough Schlitz Malt Liquour to blur my mind of the cruel treatment my ancestors suffered at the hands of the White Man!

27 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:42:55 PST by Doc Savage
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To: republican_boston

You're right. I shouldn't have made an issue of your newness. JimRob frowns on that anyway. Carry on.

28 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:51:42 PST by blam
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To: Post Toasties

If, God forbid, there ever are Federal 'reparations' for slavery, they should not be in the form of any sort of liquid assets. Perhaps only as college assistance or relocation assistance to the African country of the AA's choice.

29 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:51:49 PST by Post Toasties
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To: republican_boston

So which is it, Horowitz? If there is no Single group clearly responsible for slavery of Africans in America, than how is it that, "Black Africans and Arabs were responsible for enslaving the ancestors of African-Americans."

You are sensing a contradiction where there is none. How is it that you are construing "Black Africans and Arabs" to constitute a "single group"? I'm no expert in counting but isn't that two groups, in the context of the racial-group analysis being performed here?

Horowitz's claim is correct: No single group was responsible for slavery. He backs up this claim by pointing out that, in addition to the white slave-owners everybody knows about (Spaniards, English, whatever), (1) there were blacks in America who owned slaves, and (2) ancestors of American slaves were brought from Africa where they were owned by (a) Black Africans and/or (b) Arabs.

Do you disagree with any of this or does it just take time for you to digest the obvious and indisputable fact that Whites, Black Africans, and Arabs are not all members of a single group?

If all taxpayers are paying reperations than obviously any taxpaying descendants of "black slaver-owners in the ante-bellum United States" would be paying them as well.

Hmm. You either misunderstand, or are trying to dodge, the issue (via a sleight-of-hand). It sounds like you're suggesting that, under your Reparations proposal, the ancestry of all black Americans would be investigated. And only those blacks who were 100% descended from slaves would receive full reparations; blacks whose ancestors were slave-owners or freed-men would receive no reparations at all. (Of course most commonly there will be no clear-cut delineation; perhaps someone's ancestry could consist of 45% freemen/slave-owners and 55% slaves, for example. I suppose those people would receive 55% of the full reparations check?)

If this is the kind of thing you have in mind, then certainly you must be aware that it does not resemble any reparations plan currently on the table. So in a sense it is dishonest for you to bring it up, because you have to know it will not and will never happen. No black Americans would tolerate having their ancestry investigated for the purpose of denying that some or all of their ancestors were slaves. Black Americans who received nothing after this exercise would, presumably, be very angry.

However, if this is not the kind of thing you have in mind, and you mean to suggest that descendents of slaveowners would pay taxes (as we all do), so hey, don't worry about it, then you are trying to gloss over the main point (which is also dishonest). The main point is, will they be receiving "reparations" for the fact that their ancestors owned slaves? Presumably yes.

Either way, a poorly written response. Very poorly written.

30 Posted on 01/04/2001 10:57:02 PST by Dr. Frank
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To: Rodger Schultz

I've got one reason: They don't deserve it!

if ANYONE wants reparations, they should be given a trip to the origin of their ancestors and told to stay there.

31 Posted on 01/04/2001 11:10:52 PST by kajun
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To: Post Toasties

Two of my ancestors (or their immediate kin) in the Union forces were poisoned by vengeful Southerners during the Civil War.

If your ancestors would have known how the North would turn out today, they probably would have realized they were fighting for the wrong side. People up north should not complain, they fought against seccession of free states, tolerate living in states that are over-taxed, over regulated and over socialized.

Move south and warm up, own firearms and work with lower taxes and lower cost of living. We'd have to have 2 incomes and I'd probably have two jobs, if i lived in Long Island.

32 Posted on 01/04/2001 11:22:23 PST by kajun
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To: republican_boston

"Where is the gratitude of black America and its leaders for those gifts?" AHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

Dude, if you're black, you better take a REAL long hard look across the Atlantic at your 'breathren'. The Afican-Americans have it SO much better than the blacks in Africa it is not even funny to compare them.
Lincoln had planned to ship all the blacks back to Africa but you guys got to stay here.

You may not thank the people that had the graciousness to let you live here after you were slaves, but you better thank GOD that you live here and not there.

I thank God that my ancestors got their butts kicked in Scotland a while back.

That being said I worked with blacks in the military for years. Most of them are pretty decent chaps, but cant play spades that well :)

33 Posted on 01/04/2001 11:31:44 PST by Centurion2000
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To: Doc Savage

ROTFLMAO!!

34 Posted on 01/04/2001 11:45:52 PST by gunnrmike
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To: Centurion2000

bump.

Reparations are just a way to divide the country and make a few billion for the trial lawyers.

35 Posted on 01/04/2001 11:48:49 PST by undergroundwarrior
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To: Rodger Schultz

My family was still in Europe when all you nasty slave owners were running amuck here in the U.S. Dose that mean I'm exempt. Also, whom can I sue for reparations for my family’s serfdom under feudal lords back in Europe? :->

36 Posted on 01/04/2001 12:05:23 PST by conservonator
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To: Rodger Schultz

My family was still in Europe when all you nasty slave owners were running amuck here in the U.S. Dose that mean I'm exempt. Also, whom can I sue for reparations for my family’s serfdom under feudal lords back in Europe? :->

37 Posted on 01/04/2001 12:05:36 PST by conservonator
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To: republican_boston

I would give him a more severe punishment. I would send him to Africa or Haiti.

38 Posted on 01/04/2001 12:37:03 PST by Fred25
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To: Rodger Schultz

Affirmative Action + Welfare = Reparation.

The bill's been paid.

39 Posted on 01/04/2001 12:46:36 PST by Rudder
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To: Rodger Schultz

Affirmative Action + Welfare = Reparation.

The bill's been paid.

40 Posted on 01/04/2001 12:46:55 PST by Rudder
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To: Rodger Schultz

"Black Africans and Arabs were responsible for enslaving the ancestors of African-Americans. There were 3,000 black slave-owners in the ante-bellum United States. Are reparations to be paid by their descendants too? "

Without a doubt, this is the most logically written argument I have ever seen aginst reparations. The current population of blacks has been well taken care of by the citizens and companies of the US.

41 Posted on 01/04/2001 17:17:03 PST by B4Ranch
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To: undergroundwarrior

"Reparations are just a way to divide the country..."

Exactly. Reparations are just one more way of inflaming the black voter. Vote democrat and get your reparations.

42 Posted on 01/04/2001 17:27:36 PST by DugwayDuke
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To: republican_boston

BLACK SLAVE OWNERS

BEFORE YOU GET TOO DEEP INTO THIS DISCUSSION, CLICK ABOVE ! If you want a lot more on this subject I will supply it.

43 Posted on 01/04/2001 17:33:46 PST by B4Ranch
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To: okiedust

The demand for "reparations" is part of a multifaceted campaign by American blacks to engage in a race war without end, which includes the ebonics, racial profiling, and disenfranchisement hoaxes:

Racial Profiling?

Ebonics: The Language of Hate

44 Posted on 01/04/2001 19:39:41 PST by mrustow
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To: Dr. Frank

"It sounds like you're suggesting that, under your Reparations proposal, the ancestry of all black Americans would be investigated."

*******

On the contrary, Doc, you obviously didn't read my post. I have no reparations proposal. I am against it.

45 Posted on 01/05/2001 06:22:24 PST by republican_boston
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To: Centurion2000

I'm not black, but I find this commentary very poor. I am against reparations, but this editorial is only AMMO for those who are for them.

46 Posted on 01/05/2001 06:23:12 PST by republican_boston
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To: B4Ranch

I never denied it, please do not put words into my mouth. Please give me the link. I wish to read about it.

47 Posted on 01/05/2001 06:23:59 PST by republican_boston
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To: Ditto

Your list is WELL worth a one time tax increase. It would solve many problems in this country and in the end save some $. However, it will NEVER happen. Reparations will only legitimize their victims arguments and would open the flood gates for more unequal treatments (for non-African Americans).

48 Posted on 01/05/2001 06:49:24 PST by Chick-with-a-brain
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To: mrustow

I like this article. I enjoy reading almost everything Horowitz writes and remember from whence he came. But, I have two comments:

(1) "Blacks were here before the Mayflower." Call me Dumb-chick-with-a-brain, but I don't understand that. I thought only American Indians were here before the Mayflower.

(2) I disagree with his statement that slavery existed for thousands of years and in those years the first anti-slavery movement was made by White Americans and the English. What about Moses and the 12 tribes of Israel (the Jews)? They were slaves and made a major anti-slavery movement...even parting waters on the way outa dodge.

49 Posted on 01/05/2001 06:59:58 PST by Chick-with-a-brain
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To: republican_boston

click on "BLACK SLAVE OWNERS" in #43 then go to Dogpile.com and look up the same words, you'll find a dozen more sites, some of them universities and colleges, repeating the same facts.

If slavery wasn't looked down upon by the black slave owners how on earth do you think it should have been looked upon by whites ?

50 Posted on 01/05/2001 07:02:59 PST by B4Ranch
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To: Rodger Schultz

I like the simplest reason. Slavery was legal, and therefore ordering reparations would be comparable to writing an ex post facto law, which is prohibited by our Constitution.

51 Posted on 01/05/2001 07:08:52 PST by Critter
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To: Post Toasties

Although they might be "successfully" sued, they cannot be lawfully sued, since slavery was legal.

52 Posted on 01/05/2001 07:13:35 PST by Critter
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To: all

"I esteem myself a good, persistent hater of injustice and oppression, but my resentment ceases when they cease, and I have no heart to visit upon children the sins of their fathers."

Frederick Douglass (1817 - 1895), in his autobiography, THE LIFE AND TIMES OF FREDERICK DOUGLASS.

53 Posted on 01/05/2001 07:15:04 PST by ricer1
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To: Chick-with-a-brain

The Spainards came way before the Mayflower.

54 Posted on 01/05/2001 07:30:55 PST by dakine
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To: Chick-with-a-brain

You're right. But can't I have a dream?

55 Posted on 01/05/2001 07:35:22 PST by Ditto
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To: Chick-with-a-brain

I disagree with his statement that slavery existed for thousands of years and in those years the first anti-slavery movement was made by White Americans and the English. What about Moses and the 12 tribes of Israel (the Jews)? They were slaves and made a major anti-slavery movement...even parting waters on the way outa dodge.

Ah... Nope, that's a different matter. Sure, there have been slave rebellions and uprisings throughout history (Spartacus, anyone?) but what is being referred to here is not that sort of thing but rather a political movement within the country. Its possible of course that there were many small anti-slavery movements all over the world from time to time, but the U.S. was the first place where the arguement to outlaw really got some traction and stepped onto the world stage as a central human rights issue. The Jews got free from Pharoah, but the Pharoah didn't outlaw slavery.

More to the point: Not only was slavery not outlawed in Africa, it still is carried on there to this day.

56 Posted on 01/05/2001 07:38:30 PST by Ramius
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To: Ramius

Thanks. I didn't catch that subtilely.

57 Posted on 01/05/2001 07:44:56 PST by Chick-with-a-brain
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To: Rodger Schultz

Reparations are a "gimme, gimme" action on the part of a small minority of grasping, greedy black "leaders" slobbering at the prospect of "free" money.

58 Posted on 01/05/2001 07:47:23 PST by Junior
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To: dakine

Thanks. I'm a product of the lousy American public school system and am quite lacking in my knowledge of history. I guess I thought the Spaniards mostly went to South America and the Carribean and I didn't know they owned slaves and settled in North America.

59 Posted on 01/05/2001 07:47:28 PST by Chick-with-a-brain
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To: republican_boston

"Any government official that votes for reperations should just be tarred, feathered and sent South to Antartica."

Nah--just send'em to South Africa or Zimbabwe, where "reparations" are already being implemented.

60 Posted on 01/05/2001 07:47:57 PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Chick-with-a-brain

I like this article. I enjoy reading almost everything Horowitz writes and remember from whence he came. But, I have two comments:

(1) "Blacks were here before the Mayflower." Call me Dumb-chick-with-a-brain, but I don't understand that. I thought only American Indians were here before the Mayflower.

(2) I disagree with his statement that slavery existed for thousands of years and in those years the first anti-slavery movement was made by White Americans and the English. What about Moses and the 12 tribes of Israel (the Jews)? They were slaves and made a major anti-slavery movement...even parting waters on the way outa dodge.

Both of your points are well taken. The claim that blacks were here before the Mayflower is a myth invented by black racists, such as Lerone Bennett, the longtime editor of Ebony magazine. Bennett & Co. never came up with a shred of evidence for their claims, which are parroted in public schools and at colleges and universities. Your other point requires no amplification.

61 Posted on 01/05/2001 14:14:53 PST by mrustow
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To: Rudder

Actually, Hundreds of thousands of Civil War dead = Reparation. The bill was paid over 100 years ago.

62 Posted on 01/05/2001 15:04:17 PST by Dr. Frank
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To: Ramius

Speaking of which (Moses and the Tribes of Israel), don't these same black Americans (asking for reparations) claim that their ancestors were the Pharohs and rulers of Egypt. Does that mean that black Americans should pay reparations to Jewish Americans for enslaving the Tribes of Israel?

63 Posted on 04/02/2001 06:54:51 PDT by Quercus
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To: B4Ranch

I have no quarrel with the fact that ex-slaves owned slaves, however, I think it important to add that many of the slaves bought by freed slaves were family members and the only way to regain their family structure. If you were a freed man and your loved ones were not, I'm sure many of us would make the same arrangements.

64 Posted on 04/28/2001 13:22:37 PDT by Young American
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To: Young American

The Negro men I am referring to were not slaves at anytime. They came to America by boat and paid for their own tickets. They were property owners and bought slaves when affordable on the auction the same as the white land owners.

However I do see your point as to regaining family structure. I do feel that the preferential treatment in some areas of the country has exceeded what was the intent of the lawmakers.

Dave

65 Posted on 04/28/2001 14:06:38 PDT by B4Ranch
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To: conservonator

"nator... Mine too!! in fact.....I want to sue the British for the Irish Famine.....Think I could get some cash I dont deserve....I thank god everyday..I'm an American and not living in Ireland or the UK...

66 Posted on 04/28/2001 14:14:39 PDT by RIGHTWINGERINNY
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To: Rodger Schultz

I will tell you several reasons why the Government needs to apologize first. Reparation is something else. It has to begin with acknowledging the wrong. Denial to do so is a result of collective egoism and egotism. The Government and all the people in a democracy is fully responsible for all the actions that happens in a country. If all arms of the democracy join in to shamelessly acts of collective crime and violence against the Africans and their descendants. Then they have to begin with an apology, a 'mea culpa'. This society was happy to kill, maim, rape human beings thei called slaves. Slavery is the disgusting manifestation of capitalism at its worst and a morbid greed to get rich fast. The slave owners were so shameless and insensitive that they would turn their own biological offspring into slavery and even prostitution. It was aided by a collective criminal environment against the innocent slaves. This did not happen in ancient times or the medieval times. This did not happen in a hamlet in Africa ruled by a chieftain but in a country which was in a tearing hurry to incorporate technological advances and take full advantage of it. But socially the society was barbaric. No less. Something needs to be done about the considerable psychological disadvantage of being a Black. Affirmative action helps but not enough. I willexplain. Every imporvement in the racial relations was accompanied by the 'education' of the whites and not the 'Blacks'. Racism is the product of lack of 'information'. By information I mean un-biased and un-prejudiced. Everything about racism stinks. Many whites still ostrich-like deny the existence of racism and the other associated social ills. That there is racism alive and kicking we dont have to look far to see. It is a shame that when Tony Hall a democrat suggested some time ago that an apology should be tendered by the Government which was responsible, many whites sent him vitriolic mail. Much similar to the points raised here. This is indicative of the complete absence to reduce the racial chasm that exists.

67 Posted on 07/01/2001 10:37:38 PDT by antofds
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To: Dr. Frank

I have to agree with Dr. Frank on one of his points. If reparations were a good idea, how would the reparations be dispensed? American Indians cannot claim themselves as such unless they can prove 1/4 ancestry with a protected tribe. Would the benefits be dispensed on apperance? DNA test? Or as Dr. Frank put it, a ratio of benefits to ancestry? If one was more African than his neighbor, would he get more because as the reasoning goes for this cause, he would be suffering the most in America. It is my opinion that this cause is a waste of valuable energy that could be used for a more realistic purpose.

68 Posted on 08/27/2001 15:19:55 PDT by jasonhunt007
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To: Rodger Schultz

I ask this not out of malice or personal attack, but really I felt like your post was extreemely ignorant and offensive. I am "white" and would never share the racist opinions you posted. Have you ever walked on the other side of the tracks in your town, or have you been too caught up in the white upperclass, "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" mentality? Things are still not equal by a far shot, maybe it's time to take your blinders off and see how you can help to make a difference...

69 Posted on 09/17/2001 14:38:56 PDT by daynatyah (What planet have you been living on?)
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