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600 Celebrate Life Of Mauling Victim Diane Whipple's spirit extolled

Culture/Society Extended News News Keywords: DIANE WHIPPLE, MEMORIAL
Source: San Francisco Chronicle
Published: 2-1-2001 Author: Chuck Squatriglia, Justino Aguilar, Chronicle Staff Writers
Posted on 02/02/2001 16:10:46 PST by MrMuse


Chuck Squatriglia, Justino Aguilar, Chronicle Staff Writers   Friday, February 2, 2001


Moraga Town -- During a memorial Mass that was by turns somber and cheerful, Diane Alexis Whipple was remembered last night as a woman whose "spirit was too large for this world."

More than 450 friends and relatives packed the chapel at St. Mary's College of California in Moraga and about 200 more crowded into a nearby meeting room to remember the college's popular lacrosse coach.

Whipple, 33, was mauled to death in a dog attack a week ago at the door of her Pacific Heights apartment. The tragedy stunned the campus, leaving its faculty and 3,500 students struggling to cope with her death.

"The love, the anger, the confusion, the numbness and the disbelief we feel because of the death of Diane Alexis cries out to God for answers," the Rev. Tom McElligott told mourners. "There is only silence. But in that silence, we hear the shouts of praise, the joy, the laughter that was Diane's life."

Indeed, it was Whipple's life, not her death, that dominated the two-hour service. The evening Mass was marked by heartbroken sobs and heartfelt laughter as Whipple's friends, family and students shared inside jokes, funny stories and moving poems.

Friends told of Whipple's wicked sweet tooth and love of Godiva chocolates. They remembered her sharp sense of humor. And they called her boundless enthusiasm and eternal good cheer an inspiration for others to follow.

"Alexis taught me to take advantage of every day," said Sharon Smith, Whipple's partner of seven years. "Although our time with her was short, we were blessed that God gave her to us for 33 years. I love you, Alexis."

The tables in the reception area of the chapel were covered with some of Whipple's favorite things, including a green alien mask, a pink GameBoy, Snickers candy bars and cartoon character figurines.

Dozens of photographs on display all had one thing in common: Whipple's vibrant smile along with her love of sports.

The young women Whipple coached commended her skill in transforming an inexperienced band of players into a sharp team that amassed an 8-8 record last season. Each held one pink rose and wore blue and red ribbons in memory of Whipple.

"The first time she saw us play, I thought she would fall over laughing," Amy Harms said, choking back tears. "Knowledge of the sport got coach her job. But her friendship made us love her."

Players said Whipple was an unconventional coach who used team dinners, constant praise and offbeat things like scavenger hunts to teach them the value of teamwork.

"You turned this team into a lean, mean lacrosse team," player Ali Back said, reading from a poem filled with inside jokes that had her teammates and others howling with laughter.

The humor lifted the spirits of those at the Mass, who were further buoyed by Whipple's mother, Penny Whipple-Kelly, who spoke just long enough to explain how people can keep her daughter's spirit alive.

"If you could do one favor for Diane every day, turn to someone you love and say, 'I love you,' " she said.

About 45 minutes into the service, the entire chapel was rocked by a sharp jolt as a friend of Whipple's spoke about the coach. Stunned guests looked at each other, taking deep breaths as a clergyman attributed the earthquake to Whipple's presence.

Whipple graduated from Penn State, where she was a two-time All-American lacrosse player and 1990 NCAA player of the year.

She joined St. Mary's a little more than a year ago after coaching at the Menlo School in Atherton. During her first season at St. Mary's, she led the Gaels to their respectable finish. She was widely admired by her players, who will return to the practice field this weekend to prepare for a season that starts later this month.

"We may not win every game on the scoreboard, but we will never lose a game, " Megan Bryan said. "We will make her proud."

E-mail Chuck Squatriglia at csquatriglia@sfchronicle.com and Justino Aguilar at jaguila@sfchronicle.com.


 
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DOG MAULING

Your thoughts on menacing dogs?

Dog owner couple defy convention. (2/2)

600 celebrate life of Diane Whipple. (2/2)

Earlier attacks by dogs reported. (2/2)

S. Bay case could be DA's blueprint. (2/2)

Mark Morford: Freaks by the bay. (2/2)

Lawyers blame mauling death on victim in letter. (2/1)

Excerpts from the lawyers' letter. Full text (2/1)

Inmate adoption stuns legal experts. (2/1)

Dog owners feel brunt of public unease. (2/1)

Advice from the prez of SFSPCA. (2/1)

Stephanie Salter: Canines in the City bring out the beast in us. (2/1)

Owners of killer dogs adopt racist prison inmate. (1/31)

Fatal dog attack investigation leads to felons, fighting dog rings. (1/30)

KRON: Dog owners under investigation. (1/31)

Warning signs of aggressive animals. (1/29)

Residents on edge. (1/29)

'Dog Of Death'. (1/28)

Dogs attack, kill woman. (1/27)



02/02/2001 - Prosecutors mull criminal charges, friends attend memorial service .

02/02/2001 - Friends, family team members gather to remember Diane Whipple .

01/28/2001 - St. Mary's Grieves for Women's Lacrosse Coach.

01/28/2001 - S.F. Neighbors Say Dog Was Aggressive.

>>more related articles...



1 Posted on 02/02/2001 16:10:46 PST by MrMuse
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To: MrMuse

I heard the lawyer-owner say that Diane provoked the attack.
What are these lawyers going to do to her at an eventual trial?

2 Posted on 02/02/2001 16:16:25 PST by Slyfox
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To: MrMuse

This is such a tragedy. My prayers go out to her family. She did not stand a chance in this terrible attack. I do hope that all concerned will be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

I do hope this shines the light on the goons of this world who breed and mistreat dogs for the "game of dog-fighting." Isn't this illegal? Can't there be an all out crack down on this?

Not to diminish the human injuries and deaths from these attacks, there is the case to be made that this is animal cruelty. The stories about how these dogs are raised and trained are horrific. What kind of people actually accept this as a way of life? This must be a hellish world that they exist in. These people truly represent the dark side of the human soul.

3 Posted on 02/02/2001 17:14:48 PST by Swede Girl
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To: Swede Girl

Yeah, and they're evil, too.

4 Posted on 02/02/2001 17:25:40 PST by MrMuse
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To: Swede Girl

The owner of the dog says that his wife tried to stand between the victim and the dog but the victim hit his wife and provoked the attack.

5 Posted on 02/02/2001 17:26:14 PST by KDD
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To: Slyfox

Posted beside the article, there is an interesting link that gives a little background on the Knol-Noeller duo.

6 Posted on 02/02/2001 17:28:50 PST by MrMuse
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To: MrMuse

From Link in article:

ESTRANGED FROM ADULT CHILDREN

Noel has not told his three adult children. He hasn't spoken to them in years. Or rather, he said, they won't speak to him. He declined to be more specific.

7 Posted on 02/02/2001 17:33:22 PST by MrMuse
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To: MrMuse

Diane Whipple was mourned at Penn State where she led the PSU women's lacrosse team to two NCAA national championships.

Dogs' owners suggest victim was to blame



Friday, February 2, 2001


Dogs' owners suggest victim was to blame

By STEPHANIE MCCRUMMEN

Newsday

Robert Noel and Marjorie Knoller -- owners of the dogs that mauled to death a former Penn State lacrosse star outside her San Francisco apartment last Friday -- now suggest the attack was the victim's fault.

They say that Diane Whipple, a two-time All-American at Penn State -- was either on steroids or wearing pheromone-based perfume that enraged the 100-plus-pound dogs, Bane and Hera.

They say that after she had reached safety inside her apartment, she crawled back into the narrow hallway and into the jaws of Bane.

They say that Whipple punched Knoller in the face.

Over and over, they blame her in a 19-page letter faxed to the San Francisco district attorney's office late Wednesday night.

"They've obviously read the attack dog section of the penal code ... " San Francisco police Lt. Henry Hunter said Thursday, referring to one of several state laws under which Knoller and Noel could be prosecuted. "Basically it's a blame-the-victim letter. Our investigation hasn't shown anything that would blame the victim. And we're looking."

He said the letter differs significantly from a taped account given by Knoller the night of the attack.

Five experts in animal behavior contacted Thursday called the idea that perfume or steroids provoked the dogs "ridiculous."

A childhood friend of Whipple's called the arguments "disgusting."

"The whole thing is idiotic and a disgrace," said Alison Campbell of Stamford, Conn. "To her family, to her friends and to her life."

As the investigation continued, a memorial service for Whipple was held at St. Mary's College in Moraga, Calif., Thursday, where the 33-year-old former NCAA player of the year who played on two national-championship teams while at Penn State, coached the sport she loved.

According to the original account given to police by Knoller on Friday, the attack occurred around 4 p.m.

Whipple had just pushed open the door to her sixth-floor apartment in the Pacific Heights section, her arms full of groceries. Knoller had just returned to her apartment down the narrow hallway, with Bane and Hera on a leash.

Knoller told police that she lost control of the dogs when Bane lunged toward Whipple. She told police that Bane dragged Whipple from the doorway of her apartment about 20 feet down the hall. She said Hera joined the attack. She said that she tried to cover Whipple's body with her own, and told her to stay still, but that Whipple tried to crawl away, and each time, Bane lunged toward her.

The letter states that as Bane initially lunged toward Whipple Knoller dropped to her knees to act as "an anchor." Knoller then pushed Whipple into her apartment, it says, and both women fell to the floor inside, with Knoller covering Whipple, who had not yet been bitten. Knoller then began backing out of the apartment with Bane, the letter states, but Whipple followed.

"Marjorie has no idea why Ms. Whipple, rather than remaining in her apartment and closing the door, came out into the hall and toward Marjorie," the letter states.

Bane at that point bit Knoller, the letter states, and Knoller told Whipple not to move, that the dog was trying to protect its owner.

The letter says that Whipple continued to crawl toward Knoller and Bane, instead of remaining in the apartment.

Bane moved for Whipple, who "forcibly struck Marjorie in the right eye," the letter states.

"When Ms. Whipple struck Marjorie in the face, Bane moved forward and made contact with Ms. Whipple's neck and throat."

At other points in the letter, the couple, who are both attorneys, say that Whipple was either on steroids or wearing pheromone-based perfume, which provoked the attack.

Knoller and Noel could face charges of criminal negligence, including manslaughter.


A note to our readers:

8 Posted on 02/02/2001 22:11:37 PST by StopGlobalWhining
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To: MrMuse

I noticed they put the halbreed male down immediately. The purebred female is going to get a hearing. Being suspicious I suspect the purebred female a rare breed and is needed for breeding purposes.. If it had been the other way around, I'll bet they would have destroyed the female and kept the male.

Just a follow the money angle.

9 Posted on 02/03/2001 02:17:40 PST by A+Bert
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To: Swede Girl re #9

bump re # 9

10 Posted on 02/03/2001 05:55:11 PST by A+Bert
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To: A+Bert

Si sink sore sight.

11 Posted on 02/03/2001 09:51:27 PST by MrMuse
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To: MrMuse

I know I am right. No doubt in my mind.

12 Posted on 02/03/2001 10:21:09 PST by A+Bert
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To: A+Bert

Killer canines linked to inmates

Wednesday, January 31, 2001

From CDTstaff and wire reports

SAN FRANCISCO -- The two dogs responsible for the death of a former Penn State lacrosse player were bred and trained to guard methamphetamine labs and were part of a fighting-dog ring run by prison inmates, authorities are saying.

Attorneys Robert Noel and his wife, Marjorie Knoller, owned the two dogs that attacked 33-year-old Diane Whipple at the front door of her San Francisco apartment Friday. Whipple, a two-time All-American and the 1990 NCAA player of the year while at Penn State, died Friday evening in a San Francisco hospital.

Noel and Knoller were previously issued a decree of adoption in San Francisco Superior Court and are now recognized as the parents of Paul John Schneider, nicknamed "Cornfed," an inmate at Pelican Bay State Prison.

"The adoption will be in the best interest of the parties and in the public interest," the decree read in part.

Schneider, 38, and another inmate -- Dale Bretches, 44 -- are both active members of the Aryan Brotherhood and ran a fighting-dog ring that included two mastiff-Canary Island dog mixes the attorneys sued to gain custody of, according to Russ Heimerich of the California Department of Corrections.

Friday, one of those two dogs, a 120-pound 3-year-old named Bane, latched on to Whipple's neck as she attempted to enter her Pacific Heights apartment and killed her. Animal control officers used tranquilizers on the dog to remove him from the hallway. He was taken to a kennel where he was later put down.

Hera, Noel's other dog who reportedly bit at Whipple's clothes while Bane killed her, was in the custody of the city Tuesday.

Heimerich said inmates Schneider and Bretches were at the center of a business that bred and trained fighting dogs to guard criminal enterprises such as methamphetamine labs.

"They were indeed running a dog-fighting business out of Pelican Bay," Heimerich said Tuesday. "The two dogs that were involved in that attack (in San Francisco) were involved in that fighting ring."

Noel and Knoller have both visited Schneider and Bretches at Pelican Bay, state records showed.

"The two attorneys representing these guys ended up with these dogs," Heimerich said. "Our information was that (Schneider and Bretches) were using third parties and attorneys" to run their dog business. "It was a breeding scheme," Heimerich said.

A California Department of Corrections investigation into the fighting-dog ring concluded that the inmates were behind the scheme, but found no wrongdoing on the part of Noel or Knoller. The investigation was concluded months ago.

Noel sued to gain custody of Bane and Hera from Janet Coumbs of Hayfork, Calif., who was raising the dogs for the inmates. He acquired custody of Bane and Hera three months ago. Coumbs told the San Francisco Chronicle that the dogs were hard to handle. "They ate all my sheep, all my chickens and my house cat," Coumbs said. "No matter what I did, they killed. I couldn't deal with it anymore."

The two inmates' violent pasts are also well-documented.

Schneider is in prison for a robbery conviction in Los Angeles County and attempted murder while incarcerated at Folsom State Prison. Schneider is serving life without the possibility of parole. Bretches, 44, is in Pelican Bay for second-degree murder and was also found guilty of assault with a deadly weapon while incarcerated. He is serving life without the possibility of parole.

San Francisco district attorney's office spokesman Fred Gardner said his office was trying to determine if Noel's dogs were "trained to fight, attack or kill causing injury."

Information of such trained behavior would allow the district attorney's office to "go forward with a maximum prosecution," Gardner said.

Knoller and Noel did not return calls seeking comment.

Whipple, who played at Penn State from 1987 to 1990 and was part of two national championship teams, stood about 5 feet 3 inches tall and weighed about 110 pounds -- less than each of the dogs -- friends said.

Former teammates and friends at Penn State expressed shock at Whipple's death. She was beginning her second year as lacrosse coach at St. Mary's College in Moraga, Calif.

"She really found herself, what she wanted to do, in coaching," her former coach at Penn State, Sue Delaney-Scheetz said Sunday. "She loved lacrosse and she loved this university."

CDT city editor Rich Kerstetter contributed to this story. He can be reached at 231-4616 or rkerstet@centredaily.com.


From the Centre Daily Times, State College, PA. Go to the news and click on Wednesday's news on the archive 7 day index toward the top of the page.

13 Posted on 02/03/2001 19:22:28 PST by StopGlobalWhining
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To: MrMuse, PoisedWoman, Teacup, reformed_dem, xJones, RMDupree, Victoria Delsoul, Jeremiah, DittoJed2

"Alexis taught me to take advantage of every day," said Sharon Smith, Whipple's partner of seven years. "Although our time with her was short, we were blessed that God gave her to us for 33 years. I love you, Alexis."

What an awful way to die. I have to ask was she a lesbian? If so does the Pope have any influence over the American Church at all? That earthquake can be taken two ways.I attended a Mass in New Orleans for my friends brother who died of AIDS his life partner was the first to receive the Host. I noticed more than one person dip after that.

14 Posted on 02/03/2001 23:27:16 PST by BellStar
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To: BellStar

What, pray tell, does that have to do with two nut case lawyers who keep lethal animals in there city apartment?

15 Posted on 02/03/2001 23:38:50 PST by jonna
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To: jonna

You already know the answer to that. I trained Bomb dogs and Narc dogs for many years. I tried in vain to keep the above type of warrior dog out of civilian hands. I even testified before the legislature on this growing problem but the bill never even made it out of committee. What have you done about the problem? It is a growing one and it is more fall out from the war on drugs. I speak before groups on the subject often. I am a professional dog handler and I know very few alpha personalities who can or should have these dogs in the police/security world but never, never, never in any civilian setting.

16 Posted on 02/03/2001 23:56:58 PST by BellStar
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To: jonna

I posted this on the first thread about the Mauling of Diane Whipple . Remember this if you can punch or kick a dog in the gut (it is a dogs Achilles heel) you win and stay alive. Most trainers will train them to protect that area so you have to work at it. It will save your life. (Think Dog!)Most trainers will not tell you this.

17 Posted on 02/04/2001 00:23:21 PST by BellStar
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To: jonna, MrMuse, PoisedWoman, Teacup, reformed_dem, xJones, RMDupree, Victoria Delsoul, Jeremiah, Ditt

What does it have to do with the Churches Hypocrisy?Everything! This is a thread about Hypocrisy! Not nut case Lawyers not warrior dogs but those who are too blind to see.

18 Posted on 02/04/2001 07:07:28 PST by BellStar
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To: sevenup,sam I am, InvisibleChurch,: truthandlife,mykids'mom, bray, Faithfull, teletech, NuFree

Read post 14-18. Thanks.

19 Posted on 02/04/2001 07:19:55 PST by BellStar
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To: MISunshine,

Read post 14-18. Thanks.

20 Posted on 02/04/2001 07:21:56 PST by BellStar
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To: Zechariah4:6,

Read post 14-18. Thanks.

21 Posted on 02/04/2001 07:22:39 PST by BellStar
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To: Wait4Truth,

Read post 14-18. Thanks.

22 Posted on 02/04/2001 07:23:06 PST by BellStar
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To: BellStar

"Alexis taught me to take advantage of every day," said Sharon Smith, Whipple's partner of seven years. "Although our time with her was short, we were blessed that God gave her to us for 33 years. I love you, Alexis."

Hmmm? How sad that someone lost their life. What is the church's stand on homosexuals recieving the holy sacrements? I am not familiar with them.

23 Posted on 02/04/2001 07:55:13 PST by Teacup
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To: Teacup

I am not an R.C. but the Pope's stand has been page 1 news and has been on more than one thread here.

24 Posted on 02/04/2001 08:08:46 PST by BellStar
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To: BellStar

No, No ,NO I mean the part about her being a lesbian and the Pope having any control over the Catholic Church in America. I am Catholic and that is why I was interested. Of course the Pope has influence. And a gay person can receive the host if he is repentant. Most priests won't publicaly deny the host to someone so anybody could get up and receive it. Any way that is for a diffrent thread.

Much thanks for the info on the dogs. I didn't know that their achilles heel was their gut. I'll remember that and pass it on. I actually have a dog but I guess I am not as well versed in info as I should be. I have an australian sheperd, her name is Callie. Thanks for the info, jonna

25 Posted on 02/04/2001 09:28:36 PST by jonna
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To: Teacup

Love the sinner and hate the sin. You know, you don't have to present credentials before receiving Holy Communion. To a certain extent, it is an honor thing. You go up to the altar, the Priest or another appointed person says "The Body Of Christ", if you are left-handed you hod out your left hand, if you are right handed you hold out your right hand, if you are absolutely Old Church, you stick out your tongue and hold your head back after saying "Amen."

Anybody could pass. In all my years receiving Holy Communion, I have only seen one time when the priest had to retrieve the host from a non-Catholic and she took purely as an accident. During Holy Communion non-Catholics and children who have not received their first Holy Communion may gor up arms crossed on the chest and receive a blessing from the priest. This young lady did not reaslize this and did nort know what to do with host. That was how the priest knew to retreive the Host.

Anyway, long-winded post, sorry.

26 Posted on 02/04/2001 09:38:18 PST by jonna
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To: BellStar

What does it have to do with the Churches Hypocrisy?Everything! This is a thread about Hypocrisy! Not nut case Lawyers not warrior dogs but those who are too blind to see.

This thread has also exposed a sick tendency of bible thumpers to question the judgment of the Catholic Church and its clergy.

If you are in a position to judge the state of another person's soul at the time of death, you have been given a gift that no other human has enjoyed in the history of man.

You better call Oprah and get on her show!

27 Posted on 02/04/2001 09:40:14 PST by sinkspur
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To: Swede Girl

I carry a folding skinning knive (Buck type)that would have ended this attack quickly, very quickly. Some stitches and scars would have been all the lady would have ended up with.

28 Posted on 02/04/2001 09:45:37 PST by po'boy
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To: BellStar

What an awful way to die. I have to ask was she a lesbian? If so does the Pope have any influence over the American Church at all? That earthquake can be taken two ways.I attended a Mass in New Orleans for my friends brother who died of AIDS his life partner was the first to receive the Host. I noticed more than one person dip after that.

I have an idea. If it bothers you, don't attend Catholic mass.

29 Posted on 02/04/2001 09:45:47 PST by riley1992
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To: BellStar

Thanks for the flag BellStar.

Heimerich said inmates Schneider and Bretches were at the center of a business that bred and trained fighting dogs to guard criminal enterprises such as methamphetamine labs.

"They were indeed running a dog-fighting business out of Pelican Bay," Heimerich said Tuesday. "The two dogs that were involved in that attack (in San Francisco) were involved in that fighting ring."

Noel and Knoller have both visited Schneider and Bretches at Pelican Bay, state records showed.

"The two attorneys representing these guys ended up with these dogs," Heimerich said. "Our information was that (Schneider and Bretches) were using third parties and attorneys" to run their dog business. "It was a breeding scheme," Heimerich said.

Why would these 2 lawyers want such dangerous animals in their apartment? They had such a lack of concern and disregard for other people's safety!

The Catholic Church opposes homosexuals. The Pope has also expressed his opposition to homosexuals and lesbians. Last year during the Roman Catholic church's Grand Jubilee, a large gathering of homosexuals try to disrupt and voiced their opinion, so the Pope delivered a message to pilgrims at St. Peter's Square:

"In the name of the Church of Rome, I must express sadness for the affront to the Grand Jubilee of the year 2000 and for the offense to the Christian values of a city that is so dear to the hearts of the Catholics of the world...Homosexual acts are against nature's laws. The church cannot silence the truth, because this would not help discern what is good from what is evil."
Later in his speech, he called homosexuality "objectively disordered."

Despite the Church's opposition to homosexuality, the Church, the Pope, and every one, knows that God loves the sinner, and not the sin. God loves every person, each and every one of us. Alexis Whipple wasn't excommunicated; I don't find hypocrisy in having a memorial service. If we repent from our sins even in the last second before our death, God will forgive us, I think Alexis Whipple should be given the benefit of the doubt.

30 Posted on 02/04/2001 09:48:47 PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: BellStar

I attended a Mass in New Orleans for my friends brother who died of AIDS his life partner was the first to receive the Host. I noticed more than one person dip after that.

Catholics don't "dip." Not at Mass.

Now, I've known a few to pinch a little Copenhagen now and then, or, with their wives, to sweep her, low, across the floor.

But "dipping" is a Protestant thang.

31 Posted on 02/04/2001 09:50:53 PST by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur

It was Greek Orthodox.

32 Posted on 02/04/2001 10:01:27 PST by BellStar
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To: po'boy

You would never get a chance to get it.

33 Posted on 02/04/2001 10:27:02 PST by BellStar
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To: BellStar

Thannks for the flag, BellStar. My impression is that these lawyers who adopted the crook who bred the dogs to guard meth labs may, in fact, be profiting from meth labs themselves. I hope the prosecutor looks into this angle. As for the dogs, it's not their fault. Blame for Diane's death lies solely with the attorneys who kept large dogs in city apartment where they could not run off their aggressive tendencies. Diane's being a lesbian is totally irrelevant to this case.

34 Posted on 02/04/2001 11:25:46 PST by PoisedWoman
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To: BellStar

Thank you for the flag. This whole thing is very sad. To vilify the victim the way the dog owners are doing is despicable.

35 Posted on 02/04/2001 13:26:49 PST by sam I am
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To: BellStar

This is what we get from having the clintion /gore gang for so long. Evil is spoken of and Good as evil. Hang in there Bell you know Gods Word. He will bless you for stand up for the truth.

36 Posted on 02/04/2001 13:54:29 PST by sam I am
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To: jonna

Jonna I always hear prople say Love the sinner and hate the sin. Can you tell me where that saying comes from? ;-)

37 Posted on 02/04/2001 13:59:26 PST by sam I am
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To: riley1992

It was a Greek Orthodox Mass. Whipple's was Catholic

38 Posted on 02/04/2001 14:40:42 PST by BellStar
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To: sam I am

Dear SAMIAM, (Don't I know you from my childhood, I have missed you)Scripture. Love your neighbor as yourself and the Lord above all as Jesus exhorted us to do.

1 Samuel 16:8 The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." Also judge not lest ye be judged. Also in one of Paul's letter he talksa bout this.

Also my priest has made that statement alot of times. And you know I just don't believe one can go wrong with love. There is plenty of judging, demonizing and name-calling going on that I don't feel compelled to contribute to it.

Whosoever cares for the least of my bretheren cares for me.

Mother Teresa cared for people that upper classes in India wouldn't have touched. She did small and great things with much love. And I don't agree with Christopher Hitchens, she didn't try to make poverty attractive.

Some religiuous people nowadays, it seems to me, are so busy trying to get to the letter of the law that they miss the spirit of God completely.

39 Posted on 02/04/2001 16:45:40 PST by jonna
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To: sam I am

I always hear people say Love the sinner and hate the sin. Can you tell me where that saying comes from?

It's a quote from Saint Augustine (354-430 A.D) "Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum." ("With love for mankind and hatred of sins") sometimes translated and love the sinner but not the sin.

40 Posted on 02/04/2001 18:29:07 PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: sinkspur

"If you are in a position to judge the state of another person's soul at the time of death, you have been given a gift that no other human has enjoyed in the history of man."

That could be the state of denial and that would be most unfortunate.

Judge them? No, never, but don't reward their acts either.

41 Posted on 02/05/2001 14:26:42 PST by BellStar
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To: Slyfox

Easy for these slime lawyers to make the accusations that she punched the wife (yeah right) and wore phemerone cologne that the puppies didn't "like" (bad bad Diane)...but unfortunately poor Ms. Whipple is not here to defend herself, is she?

42 Posted on 02/05/2001 14:35:38 PST by Libertina
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To: PoisedWoman

Running off their aggressive tendencies is totally irrelevant in this case. These dogs were trained to fight and probably out of there minds with rage by the agitation practices used to "PUMP" them up. Some "trainers" even drug these dogs to craze them. Pray for Ms. Whipple's Soul and that these jerks will all burn for her sinless death and the false witness used against her will be exposed.

43 Posted on 02/05/2001 14:51:40 PST by BellStar
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To: Libertina

Right. And I am wondering how someone who is afraid of a dog, a dog that weighs more than that person, how is that person going to punch anybody or anything? The original report said that the dog bit her for 10 minutes. That's a long time to be fighting for your life. Yeah, I can just see myself stopping in the middle of being mauled by a monster to take a swing at the owner. (/sarcasm)

I sure hope and pray that these sleazy lawyers are not allowed by some stupid judge to make Diane out to be the aggressor and cause of her own death.

44 Posted on 02/05/2001 14:54:34 PST by Slyfox
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To: BellStar

Judge them? No, never, but don't reward their acts either.

I don't think that praying for someone's soul at death is a "reward" for any sins they may have committed.

You'd better hope none of your friends hear you saying this.

45 Posted on 02/05/2001 14:55:48 PST by sinkspur
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