JFK jnr and his wife, Carolyn Bessette ... navy burned tapes "out of respect for the family".
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Video and photographic evidence from the site of the plane crash that killed John F. Kennedy jnr has either been destroyed or mysteriously gone missing as a family court battle looms over the accident.
The US Navy has conceded it destroyed up to eight hours of video footage taken by divers recovering the bodies of Mr Kennedy, his wife, Carolyn Bessette, and her sister, Lauren Bessette, in the waters off the island of Marthas Vineyard in July 1999.
JFK jnr and his wife, Carolyn Bessette ... navy burned tapes "out of respect for the family".
At the same time, a large quantity of photographs has apparently been lost between the navy and the organisation empowered to investigate aircraft accidents, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).
The developments have given rise to claims that the Kennedy family used its political influence to have the images destroyed before they could go to a court and become publicly available.
The family already endures frequent rebroadcasting of amateur footage of the assassination of Mr Kennedy's father, president John F. Kennedy, in a 1963 shooting during a motorcade in Dallas.
Family members did not want to suffer the same pain over John jnr's death by being subjected to constant replays of graphic footage of the recovery operation.
Navy divers filled four 120-minute VHS cassettes with footage during the operation.
The film included their discovery of Mr Kennedy's body, wedged from the waist down between the seat and instrument panel of the plane and his arms waving back and forth in the current. It also showed the bodies of Ms Carolyn Bessette and her sister lying crushed and partially obscured behind Mr Kennedy.
A freedom of information application by a United States newspaper seeking access to the film forced the navy to concede at the weekend that it had burned the tapes "out of respect for the family".
However, the NTSB said it had told the navy it did not need the footage because it had been able to recover almost all the wreckage and determine a cause of the accident from that.
The Bessette family's lawyers believe the videos would have been crucial to their pending court actions seeking damages from Mr Kennedy's estate.
The Bessette sisters' mother, Ms Ann Freeman, and father, Mr William Bessette, are preparing separate suits based on the official finding that the deaths were caused by pilot error on Mr Kennedy's part.
The Kennedys recently offered Ms Freeman $US10 million ($18.6 million) from Mr John F. Kennedy jnr's $US100 million estate. The offer was turned down.
The film included their discovery of Mr Kennedy's body, wedged from the waist down between the seat and instrument panel of the plane and his arms waving back and forth in the current.
Maybe he was saying hello to Mary Jo Kopekne.
The Navy destroyed the tapes on orders from the Clinton administration - not out of respect for the family.
These totally incompetent government boobs continue to hide and destroy evidence, and they wonder why some of us are "conspiracy theorists"? Geez, I don't know....if there is nothing to hide, WHY DESTROY EVIDENCE?
Heads up!
Where is Micheal Rivero when you need him?
I wanted to see how long it took for Rivero to smell this thread out on his own!
Our government answers to the Kennedys. I wonder how many other victims families get to destroy government property that makes them feel "uncomfortable".
I agree .... there may have been something which caused the crash but we will never know.
Jeff Rense has had a couple of guests on his shows suggesting JFK wanted to run for the NY Senate. Etc.
But we will never know.
Once again we see our government at work.
and his arms waving back and forth in the current.
Maybe he was saying hello to Mary Jo Kopekne.
Lord help me, but I did a spit-take all over the computer over this one! rofl!!!
(It's the times we're living in; my sense of propriety has almost vanished!)
Maybe he was saying hello to Mary Jo Kopekne.
Chortle...;-)
Maybe he was saying hello to Mary Jo Kopekne.
rofl..laughed so hard I choked on my breakfast burrito
his arms waving back and forth in the current.
H*ll, even dead at the bottom of the ocean, people insist on performing that annoying "wave" thing. Sheesh. fsf
Boy I needed some cheering up today and ALL of you have accomplished that! I can always depend on Freepers sense of humor to lift my spirits ... as sick as it is sometimes.
It does present a morbid mental image: "Maybe he was saying hello ..."
Are we losing our collective marbles?
Hmmm. Is this why the Kennedy family ame to dinner?
Maybe he was saying hello to Mary Jo Kopekne.
I'm no friend of the Kennedy's, but that was uncalled for. John Jr. was probably the least offensive of that whole disgusting bunch.
It involved a crash; it involved water; was Uncle Ted piloting the plane? After things went awry, did he parachute to safety(If parachutes are strong enough to make drops with vehicles..)?
Are we losing our collective marbles?
No, the rest of the world are collectively losing theirs. fsf
JFK, jr. was born into a family of liars, cheats, crooks and perverts. He and his sister Carolyn stand out as good people, and tributes to Jackies contribution to the gene pool, not the kennedys.
Once again we see our government at work.
I disagree, first of all GOVERNMENT doesn't work, secondly, it ain't OURS. It has been bought and paid for by special interest groups.
Lighten up. There's a very active "Gallows Humor Brigade" here.
Maybe he was saying hello to Mary Jo Kopekne.
I dislike the Kennedy's as much if not more than the rest of us here, but this comment was in extremely poor taste.
I thought I was making funny of his Uncle Teddy!
Boy, are YOU in for it......
Gird your loins, son....they're a-comin' at ya.
I think his alleged intention to run for NY senate should be explored further.Seems everybody made way for Hillary!one way or the other. I'm sure Moynihan was asked firmly but politely to step down.
I amused myself, and that's what's important.
Lighten up
That's an excellent idea! I'm carrying too much weight in 9mm Parabelllum these days. Gotta rotate some again.
Concur. It's more obvious to me that saving the evidence would do far more to quell re-emerging conspiracy theory than advance wasted time. Additionally, the resources of the State, i.e. US, are discernable from those of the Citizen. It now seems to become the standard that entrenched politicains can summon the US Navy at their beck and call to search for their relatives, while unknown US citizenry are denied the service. Adding insult to injury, the same politicians can usurp military authority and have evidence destroyed.
A freedom of information application by a United States newspaper seeking access to the film forced the navy to concede at the weekend that it had burned the tapes "out of respect for the family".
I agree with your opinion on Clinton being involved. The previous Clinton government is/was filled with boobs and incompetents...
President Bush, if you are listening, I would clean house on current security departments (CIA, NSA, etc). They have liberal rats in key positions that need to be swept clean. Put them out on the streets where they belong...
Nothing was destroyed. The film in question is stored in an underground bunker in the Nevada desert along with missle fragments from flight 800, recovered UFOs, actual moon rocks made of green cheese, a blueprint of the Mars face, the Arc of the Covanent, Whitewater billing records, and Pres. Kennedy's brain. Also in storage are 666,000 UN berets lined with tinfoil to protect the occupation troops from the voices.
heh
Kennedy crash site footage vanishes!
You should have been more explicit in your headline. When I clicked on the thread I didn't know what crash site footage I would find. Among the choices:
1. The Chappaquidic Bridge
2. The tree that Michael hit
3. The boat dock that Patrick hit
4. The jeep that Joe overturned (paralyzing the young lady)
5. The waitress hitting the floor at the Brasserie restaurant.
6. The Japanese ship hitting PT-109
Be more specific please.
You left out:
7. Drunken Joan, smashing her car into a tree.
That's an excellent idea! I'm carrying too much weight in 9mm Parabelllum these days. Gotta rotate some again
Try SlimFast. Worked great on my M1-Abrams. In six months I was down to an M2-Bradley. ;)
There you go again!!! I love your sense of humor!
8. Joe, Jr's bomber exploding in midair.
9. Teddy's pants hitting the floor.
An inexperienced over confident pilot caused this accident. No one with any sense flies at dusk or after if they are not instrument certified. This is especially true over water where all visual references are non existant. As for the film the only question I have is would any of you if your family members were on film and knowing the sensational nature of the modern media trust that the film would not get in the wrong hands. And like most of you I think the Kennedys are scum. With the exception of John Jr. Damn shame uncle Ted missed the flight.
The actual question should be:
If you or any member of your family were involved in accident that involved US Navy and Coast Guard rescue, would your family have the power to order the Navy to destroy footage of the recovery effort, even if that footage would have relevance to an upcoming civil suit against your family?
The answer is no, because you are a serf, and America's Royalty plays by different rules. The United States Navy answers to them.
bttt
Seeing that he's ignored this thread, I can only conclude one thing:
They got Rivero!
Maybe he was saying hello to Mary Jo Kopekne.
That is so bad! I really should stop laughing at it.
It doesn't matter; all Kennedys are the same until the 5th generation from Pops.
If that bugged ya, then have a few of these....
What did John Jr tell his housekeeper before he left?
You feed the dog. I'll feed the fish
The Coast Guard used all of their resources and the latest technology to find and recover JFK Jr's body, and then they just buried him at sea the next day...
This must be part of the new Coast Guard "catch & release" policy
The sharks off Martha's Vineyard are getting sick…
They say that the food's too rich for their taste
What's the difference between Chappaquiddick and Junior's crash?
It only took Ted 4 hours to call the cops this time. . .he's learning!
So much for American Royalty:
Prince of Tides
Prince Chumming
So, I guess it's true about JFK Jr's political future.
It's dead in the water
The Coast Guard contacted Ted Kennedy with the news that JFK's body had been located.
"We have good news, better news and great news," they said, "The good news is that we have recovered the body."
"What's the better news?" inquired Ted.
"Well, when we pulled him up, he had several nice-sized lobsters and a dozen blue crabs on him."
Horrified, Ted asks "What's the great news?"
"We're pulling him up again tomorrow!"
Following are the three main causes of death in the US Today:
1. Cancer
2. Heart disease
3. Being a member of the Kennedy family.
What does JFK Jr. and a penguin have in common?
They're both kinda cute, but neither one can fly!
Kennedy's are starting a new travel agency called "Tours Ah Us"...
Teddy drives you to the airport,
John John flies the plane,
JFK pilots the boat,
RFK cooks the meals in the kitchen,
and Michael babysits your kids and teaches ski lessons
Those Kennedy's think they are major superstars…
One thought he was Sonny Bonno, the other thought he was John Denver…
Now, if only Ted would think he was John Belushi
Latest scandalous headline in the National Inquirer…
JFK Jr goes down on Gay Head. Photos inside. .
Why did Maria Shriver marry Arnold Swartzenegger?
To breed a bullet-proof, tree-proof, drown-proof Kennedy
They say John F. Kennedy Jr's left wing fell off...
Sounds like a right wing conspiracy.
What was the worse thing about the crash?
He didn't have Teddy Kennedy with him. .
Times are changing...
It used to be that the Kennedy's drowned their women one at a time.
ROFL Sorry but I think your comment is hysterical. hahahahah. made me sweat, so it must be good!!
OMG!!!!!!!....LMAO!
JHC!!! Good stuff Maynard.
Alot of real funny ones, but "We're pulling him up again tomorrow" gets the gold!
A freedom of information application by a United States newspaper seeking access to the film forced the navy to concede at the weekend that it had burned the tapes "out of respect for the family".
I have a feeling that this destruction was illegal unless it was authorized by the president (which I suspect it was.) It would be nice to have the text of such a Clinton presidential order brought out into the open. A FOIA suit by this United States newspaper or by some other person or organization would probably be able to do this. I wonder which newspaper this is, by the way.
I'm sure Moynihan was asked firmly but politely to step down.
That's what I suspect too. I wonder who did the asking.
Is my recollection correct that Moynihan announced he was not running again in early 1999, shortly after the impeachment vote?
I heard the same info - JFK Jr. was definitely planning to run for a NY senate seat - but backed out when he found out Hillary was also planning to run. I don't think Hillary was sure he wouldn't run, and if he did, he would crush her - and she knew it. I also believe Hillary was concerned JFK Jr. would be drafted to run by the party. I still believe - and nothing will ever change that belief - that the Clinton goons took care of this little problem too - just like Vince Foster and Commerce Secretary Brown. There will never be any proof - but I don't need any.
sick humor bump but well worth it
You are sick.
I amused myself, and that's what's important.
ROFL
"Is my recollection correct that Moynihan announced he was not running again in early 1999, shortly after the impeachment vote?
November 1998. A year earlier, he became the first Democrat in the Senate to call for an independent counsel to investigate campaign fund-raising.He must have got the word some time after that to make room for a Marxist to take his seat in preperation for a White House run---someone like Hillary!
OH IT'S BLONDES. SORRY ABOUT THAT! DON'T YOU WONDER WHY THEY CREMATED THE BODIES AT SEA,CLEANED UP ALL OF THE CRASH DEBRIS,AND RELEASED A STATEMENT CLAIMING KENNEDY DIDN'T WANT TO RUN FOR SENATE. I WONDER WHAT EXPLODED SEVERAL THOUSAND FEET IN THE AIR AT THE SAME LATITUDE AND LONGITUDE OF THE SUPPOSED CRASH SITE. SEVERAL MARINE 911 CALLS REPORTED THIS!
My guess is that someone who had Moynihan's FBI file in hand asked him to step down.
I also believe JFK Jr.'s plane was "helped" down - and Uncle Teddy knows why.
"Where is Micheal Rivero when you need him?"
Wrapping one film, starting another, and running our record company (Our first album will be avalable on Amazon in a couple weeks).
Besides, I already told you there was a cover up. What more do you need?
I finally got time to read through this article. While I can accept the withholding of video of the bodies themselves, the record of the condition of the aircraft itself was material to the civil case, and also, of course, to the charges that the Navy, once again, was engaged in a cover up. Hence, the destruction of those videos constitutes evidence tampering and destruction of what is, after all, a public record. As long as the Navy accepts US tax dollars to do what it does, the taxpayers own those records and the Navy has no legal right to destroy them. The Navy engaged in a clearly criminal act to do so, probably afraid that the videos would eventually be leaked (as has so much info about TWA 800)
The Navy is a victim of its own arrogance these days. Having gotten away with so many sub collisions, the Navy has gotten reckless. Having gotten away with so many cover-ups, the Navy has gotten careless.
And now the whole world knows that the US Navy cannot handle its equipment, and that the Navy engages in cover-ups.
Yes, I have so many doubts about the competence of Navy leadership that I told my sons I did not want them to join the military unless real improvement was underway. Unfortunately, once a boy turns 18, even if he is still in high school and living at home, he can go to the recruitment office and sign up for deferred enlistment anyway. Parents have no recourse.
That is exactly what my oldest son did a few months ago, and he has been impossible to deal with at home since then. I've called the recruiter and asked him if he has room at his house for my son to move in, but of course he doesn't. I've asked him to reinforce respect for authority at home because it will serve recruits well once they are fully in the service. He hasn't done that. I asked him to encourage the recruits to be good leaders at home to their younger siblings, showing patience and setting a good example. HA!
It seems that the Navy is just lying in wait for fatherless boys to swim too close so they can snatch them up and disrupt the remains of their families.
One more bump.
ow - don't bump so hard!
Damn shame uncle Ted missed the flight
Ted has led some kind of charmed life. If nothing else, his alcoholism should have done him in years ago. Go figure.
Richard W.
And like most of you I think the Kennedys are scum. With the exception of John Jr. Damn shame uncle Ted missed the flight.
The plane wouldn't have been able to take off with the weight and drag imposed by Teddy's beer belly (ugh!), so the flight would never have occurred.
I don't need proof of Clinton/government wrongdoing, either. I believe something intentional happened, based on what I've read on this thread, and also, based on something I saw on the Today show last month on the 1-yr. anniversary of the plane crash.
On the show, Katie Colic didn't interview a family friend, or a business partner, not even a political ally. No, instead they had someone on from the NTSB. And, as they always do, the NTSB person reiterated that it was an accident and nothing else. Why was it so important to pay tribute to JFK Jr. with a spokeman from the NTSB again reassuring us that it was an accident? If I (or any other sane person) was put in charge of putting together a program segment about someone who died a year ago, I would not concern myself with the officials who were at the scene. I would come up with other ideas, such as a photo montage, or I would interview family and friends or old college buddies, anything but NTSB folks.
This habit of reassuring us that so-and-so's death was by 'natural causes' or someone else's crash was purely an accident just rings hollow, and, sometimes, is even questionable, like how do they already know it was 'natural causes' within the first day?! Vince Foster's death? No investigation. Ron Brown? None. Clinton's wheel-chair bound lawyer? Immediately diagnosed as 'natural causes'.
I connected the dots when, at the last moment, the Clintons forced their way into the memorial service for JFK Jr. - and, they were not even invited. It was for family and "friends". To me it mean't they were trying to cover up by pretending to care about what had happened to JFK Jr., or to cover up their involvement in his death.
Are we losing our collective marbles?
Yes. No one dislikes the Kennedys more than I, but it is in bad taste to mock his appearance in death. He was a human being.
I do not want our critics to read this thread and think this is what FreeRepublic is all about.
Fact--JFK, Jr had over 1000 hours of flight time. The type of disorientation that he supposedly experienced would normally occur only with very green pilots. 1000 hours is a lot of time. From what I understand, he did quite a bit of nite flying in and out of Martha's Vineyard. During this time I would venture to say that he learned how to read instruments. In addition, money was no object to the sob. As a Kennedy, you know that he had to have every possible do-dad in that plane. With GPS he would know exactly where his plane was positioned and exactly how far he was from the runway, thereby lessening the odds of disorientation. I n addition, he flew the entire way in radio silence. Very unusual for a "new" pilot. The few times I've been flying a private plane, it was unusual to go more than 15 minutes without talking to air traffic control.
Add it all up and you realize the whole thing stinks.
Add it all up and you realize the whole thing stinks.
I agree. I think we are discussing something important. I also think it detracts from the seriousness of the subject to be making insensitive remarks about the victims appearance in death.
By all reports, JFK Jr. was a decent young man, raised by his mother with values, and apart from his more notorious cousins. In fact, he wrote a rather scathing report on his cousins bad behavior in George Magazine. To lump him in with the rest of the bunch who clearly have behavioral problems seems unfair, at best.
I think there is something very wrong with the story we were fed on the crash, and this just adds to the mistrust.
JFK JR. was indeed not as inexperienced as the media reported at the time, and there were witnesses who heard and or saw an explosion in the same area, at the same time as the plane disappeared. I have them on video, at the beginning of the reporting, but as usual, the story changed a little later.
I think what bothered me most about the whole thing, was the fact that as soon as the bodies were recovered, they were put right back.
In addittion to that, they would not allow the media to show any of the airplane as it was being brought up, shining bright lights into the cameras under the cover of darkness. What was the problem with bits of wreckage being shown, even to the family?
Why the sudden burial at sea, certainly not the typical Kennedy M.O.
So many strange happenings involved in what I think is a very tragic end to the life a good man, and his wife and sister in law. I must be alone on this forum, but I mourn his loss, and find nothing amusing in his tragic death.
Until we all believe a mystery death is "Arkancide" until proved otherwise.
JFK Jr. seemed like a nice enough guy, who never accomplished much other than using his name to get financial backing for a magazine. It's a shame he died young. It's a shame millions of people die young or die at all.
But I hardly think he is suddenly deserving of respect and reverence simply because he committed the entirely unspectacular feat of dying. When I die, feel free to mock the circumstances of my demise. I'll probably chuckle from the great beyond.
Gird your loins, son....they're a-comin' at ya.
Gird your loins??
Yes! Definitely, Gird your loins!
(where do you get this stuff?)
But you're already dead?
That is exactly what my oldest son did a few months ago, and he has been impossible to deal with at home since then.
If you're paying his way until he ships out, then remind him of the Golden Rule. The one with the gold makes the rules. End of discussion. If he still cops an attitude, then boot him out and keep everything you've paid for. When he has to go out into the world as naked, cold and hungry as he came into it, he might learn some respect. dan
As much as I would like to find something sinister in burning the footage, I don't understand the fuss.
The bodies and the aircraft were recovered so I don't see how not having the video tape significantly reduces the chances of prevailing in a civil action.
The Piper Saratoga he was Flying is well equiped with electronic toys - it will do everything but fix breakfast for you. I looked on aso.com for a similar model and it had all the toys you could want including GPS. The aircraft will fly (on auto pilot) all the way down an approach fix to the runway - at which point you hand fly the last 200 or 300 ft - And it is possible not to talk to ATC - and on his route it appears he didn't talk to anybody after he left the New Your or was it N.J Airport - forget the name. You could request flight following (optional) and ATC will keep you advised of other traffic on your route - he did not do this - or they would have it on tape. But I always wondered how he could have taken lessons from one of the best Flight Schools in the country and then pile into the ocean like that. If he lost visual outside horizon he could engage the auto pilot and let the airplane fly itself. He could then just turn the heading bug to 270 and fly west till he saw the lights of the coastline - or set in the navaid at Martha's and fly direct to that airport. Strange very Strange.
"I still believe - and nothing will ever change that belief - that the Clinton goons took care of this little problem too - just like Vince Foster and Commerce Secretary Brown. There will never be any proof - but I don't need any."
I agree totally. Until now, (before Pardongate, at least), no one in the Dem party could stop Hil in 2004 or 2008 except one person: JFK Jr. The Dems would have dropped everyone and everything if Junior had agreed to step forward. He'd be nominated at any convention by acclaimation. Dems have looked at JohnJohn for years as their ultimate messiah, the man destined to be king, to lead them back into Camelot. Junior's recklessness doomed him: he underestimated or foolishly minimized what we all know the first felons are capable of. JFK Jr. was in their way. We know what happens to those in that position.
As to pre-fab stories of Junior's lack of flying skills, yadayada, remember for a moment how we were told that Brown's plane came down in the worst weather of the decade there----when actually the weather was perfect.
Thanks for confirming my thoughts on this. I know it sounds kookie, but I so agree with you - Jr. was in the way and the only thing they could do was get rid of him. Sad, so sad. I really liked the guy; for a democrat. But, I still would not have voted for him.
Vertigo don't give a rat's ass who you are or what kind of "doo dads" are in your airplane.
-A pilot
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