Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
GENESIS 6:1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. 3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. (NKJV)
There has been much speculation about who these "sons of God" mentioned in the sixth chapter of Genesis were. Three basic interpretations of this passage have been advanced.
The first, and oldest, belief is that "the sons of God" were fallen angels who consorted with human women, producing giant offspring called nephilim. This view was widely held in the Judaic world of the first century, and was supported by many of the "Ante-Nicene Fathers," including Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Irenaeus, and Eusebius.
The second view is one which was advocated by Saint Augustine, the Catholic Bishop of Hippo. He rejected the concept of the fallen host having committed fornication with women. In his early fifth century book The City of God, he advanced the theory that "the sons of God" simply referred to the genealogical line of Seth, who were committed to preserving the true worship of God. He interpreted Genesis 6 to mean that the offspring of Adam through Seth were "the sons of God," and the offspring of Adam through Cain were "the daughters of men." He wrote that the problem was that the family of Seth had interbred with the family of Cain, intermingling the bloodlines and corrupting the pure religion. This view has become the dominant one among most modern biblical scholars.
The third view is that "the sons of God" were the sons of pre-Flood rulers or magistrates. This interpretation was advocated by two of the most respected Jewish rabbis of the Middle Ages, Rashi and Nachmanides, and became the standard explanation of rabbinical Judaism. However, it is not widely accepted by modern scholars.
To determine who these "sons of God" were, we'll first examine what various outside sources have to say about this topic. Then we'll examine the ultimate authority, the Bible, to see its position.
Let's start with a quotation and footnote from William Whitson's translation of The Antiquities of the Jews, by the respected Jewish historian Flavius Josephus:
Now this posterity of Seth continued to esteem God as the Lord of the universe, and to have an entire regard to virtue, for seven generations; but in process of time they were perverted, and forsook the practices of their forefathers, and did neither pay those honors to God which were appointed to them, nor had they any concern to do justice towards men. But for what degree of zeal they had formerly shown for virtue, they now showed by their actions a double degree of wickedness; whereby they made God to be their enemy, for many angels* of God accompanied with women and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians called giants. But Noah was very uneasy at what they did; and, being displeased at their conduct, persuaded them to change their dispositions and their acts for the better; but, seeing that they did not yield to him, but were slaves to their wicked pleasures, he was afraid they would kill him, together with his wife and children, and those they had married; so he departed out of that land. (bk. 1, ch. 3, 72-74)
* This notion, that the fallen angels were, in some sense the fathers of the old giants, was the constant opinion of antiquity.
As you can see, Josephus believed and recorded that "the sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6 were fallen angels, or demons.
Another well-known first century Jewish writer, Philo of Alexandria, shared Josephus' views on this topic. In his work "On the Giants," Philo wrote:
"And when the angels of God saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful, they took unto themselves wives of all them whom they chose." Those beings, whom other philosophers call demons, Moses usually calls angels . . . (The Works of Philo, "De Gigantibus," translated by C.D. Yonge, p. 152)
The Book of Enoch, also called 1 Enoch, is a collection of pseudepigraphic writings by various authors which dates to the first or second century B.C. This book was well-known by the early church; in fact, Jude, the brother of Jesus, quoted 1 Enoch 1:9 in verses 14 and 15 of his epistle. Obviously Jude felt that the quote he attributed to Enoch was genuine. This work, which deals extensively with the fall of the angels, was also viewed favorably by some early "Christian" writers (Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, and others); however, it was never universally accepted as Scripture. Below is a selection from 1 Enoch which records the sin of angels:
1 ENOCH 6:1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto 2 them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men 3 and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not 4 indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations 5 not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves 6 by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon . . . (From The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, translated by R.H. Charles)
A similar passage is also found in the pseudepigraphic Book of Jubilees:
JUBILEES 5:1 And it came to pass when the children of men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them, that the angels of God saw them on a certain year of this jubilee, that they were beautiful to look upon; and they took themselves wives of all whom they 2 chose, and they bare unto them sons and they were giants. And lawlessness increased on the earth and all flesh corrupted its way, alike men and cattle and beasts and birds and everything that walks on the earth - all of them corrupted their ways and their orders, and they began to devour each other, and lawlessness increased on the earth and every imagination of the thoughts of all men 3 (was) thus evil continually . . . (From The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, translated by R.H. Charles)
The Genesis Apocryphon, one of the texts uncovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls, also contains references to the angels interbreeding with human women. In this text, a conversation between Lamech, the father of Noah, and his wife Bathenosh is detailed. Lamech questions his wife because he thinks that the conception of Noah was due to either an angel or one of their offspring, a nephilim. The Book of Enoch, the Book of Jubilees, and the Genesis Apocryphon all clearly show that the common understanding at the time of Christ was that the fallen host had committed fornication with women in the period before the flood.
The idea that the nephilim or giants were the offspring of the fallen host and human females was not unique to Judaism. This understanding was likely behind the Greek, Roman, and Egyptian mythologies, as well as those of India and the near east. All these beliefs resulted not as mere inventions of fertile human imagination, but as a corruption of antediluvian truths which were distorted as their origin was forgotten over time.
Take, for example, the legend of the Titans. In Greek mythology, the Titans were a family of giant gods who were the offspring of Uranus (heaven) and Gaea (earth). The most famous of the Titans was Cronus, who killed his father. Cronus later led the Titans in their losing war against Zeus and the Olympian gods. After their defeat, the Titans were imprisoned in a section of the underworld called Tartarus.
In his second epistle, the apostle Peter uses part of this Greek myth to explain the fate of some of the fallen angels. He states that for their sins, these angels had been tartarosas, which The NKJV Greek English Interlinear New Testament translates literally as "confining them to Tartarus" (also known in the Bible as "the Abyss").
II PETER 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell [tartarosas] and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; (NKJV)
This is the same Tartarus where Greek mythology says the Titans were imprisoned. It's highly unlikely that Peter would have used such an analogy if this pagan legend wasn't based on at least some grain of truth which his readers would have knowledge of. The idea that evil angels mated with human women and had offspring (the nephilim) appears far-fetched to us in this modern era, but it seems to have been widely accepted as fact in the ancient world.
As we've seen above, the word translated "giants" in Genesis 6:4 is nephilim. Let's look at what The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia has to say about the possible origins of this Hebrew word:
The etymology of nepîlîm is uncertain, the following explanations have been advanced with mixed reception. First, it may derive from the niphal of the verb pãlã, meaning "be extraordinary," i.e., "extraordinary men." Second, it may be derived from the verb nãpal, "fall," in one of the following senses: (1) the "fallen ones" - from heaven, i.e., supernatural beings; (2) morally "fallen men"; (3) "those who fall upon," in the sense of invaders or hostile, violent men; (4) "those who fell by" the sword (cf. Ezk. 32:20f.); (5) "unnaturally begotten men" or bastards (from cf. nepel, "abortion" or miscarriage"). (vol. 3, pp. 518-519)
The Greek version of the Old Testament, the Septuagint, renders the Hebrew term nephilim as gigantes, which literally means "earth-born." This is often misunderstood to mean "giants" - which the nephilim apparently were also.
From the sources we've just examined, it's readily apparent that the general understanding of Genesis 6:1-4 at the time of Christ was that the angels had sinned by committing fornication with human women. But does the Bible support this theory?
First, let's look at all of the Old Testament references to "sons of God" (Heb. bene elim or bene elohim):
GENESIS 6:1 When men began to increase on earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the divine beings [bene elohim] saw how beautiful the daughters of men were and took wives from among those that pleased them. 3 The Lord said, "My breath shall not abide in man forever, since he too is flesh; let the days allowed him be one hundred and twenty years." 4 It was then, and later too, that the Nephilim appeared on earth when the divine beings [bene elohim] cohabited with the daughters of men, who bore them offspring. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown. (Tanakh, the new Jewish Publication Society translation according to the traditional Hebrew text) DEUTERONOMY 32:8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God [bene elim]. (RSV)
JOB 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God [bene elohim] came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan also came among them. (NKJV)
JOB 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God [bene elohim] came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. (NKJV) JOB 38:4 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 6 To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, 7 when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God [bene elohim] shouted for joy? (NKJV)
PSALM 29:1 O give the Lord you sons of God [bene elim], give the Lord glory and power; 2 give the Lord the glory of his name. Adore the Lord in his holy court. (The Psalms: A New Translation)
PSALM 89:5 The heavens proclaim your wonders, O Lord; the assembly of your holy ones proclaims your truth. 6 For who in the skies ["heaven" - KJV] can compare with the Lord or who is like the Lord among the sons of God [bene elim]? (The Psalms: A New Translation)
DANIEL 3:25 "Look!" he answered, "I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God [Ch. bar 'elahh]." (NKJV)
As you can see, each reference above is to angels. There are no instances in the Old Testament where "the sons of God" refer to men. Let's see what E.W. Bullinger has to say about these "sons of God" in Appendix 23 of The Companion Bible:
"The Sons of God" in Gen. 6.2, 4.
It is only by the Divine specific act of creation that any created being can be called "a son of God." For that which is "born of the flesh is flesh." God is spirit and that which is "born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3.6). Hence Adam is called a "son of God" in Luke 3.38. Those "in Christ" having the "new nature" which is by the direct creation of God (2 Cor. 5.17; Eph. 2.l0) can be, and are called "sons of God" (John 1.13; Rom. 8.14, 15; 1 John 3.1).
This is why angels are called "sons of God" in every other place where the expression is used in the Old Testament. Job 1.6; 2.1; 38.7; Ps. 29.1; 89.6; Dan. 3.25 (no art.). We have no authority or right to take the expression in Gen. 6.4 in any other sense. Moreover in Gen. 6.2 the Sept. renders it angels."
Now let's look at Genesis 6:9, which discusses Noah's genealogy. This Scripture is further proof that fallen angels had interbred with humans.
GENESIS 6:9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect [tamim] in his generations. Noah walked with God. (NKJV)
In Genesis 6:9, the Hebrew word tamim, here translated "perfect," means "physically without blemish." As the first sentence makes clear, it's referring to the genealogy of Noah; it does not refer to moral perfection. Below is what Appendix 26 of The Companion Bible has to say about this word as used in Genesis 6:9:
The Heb. word tamim means without blemish, and is the technical word for bodily and physical perfection, and, not moral. Hence it is used of animals of sacrificial purity . It is rendered without blemish in Ex. 12.5; 29.1; Lev. 1.3, 10; 3.1, 6; 4.3, 23, 28, 32; 5.12, 18; 6.6; 9.2, 3; 14.10; 22.19; 23.12, 18; Num. 6.14; 28.19, 31; 29.2, 8, 13, 20, 23, 29, 32, 36; Ezek. 43.22, 23, 25; 45.18, 23; 46.4, 6, 13.
Without spot: Num. 19.2; 28.3, 9, 11; 29.17, 26.
Undefiled: Ps. 119.1.
This shows that Gen. 6.9 does not speak of Noah's moral perfection . . . Now let's examine what Jude said about the fallen angels in the New Testament:
JUDE 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (KJV)
Because of the punctuation of verse 7, this Scripture appears to say that Sodom and Gomorrah, as well as the cities around them, gave themselves over to sexual immorality. However, the underlying Greek text does not support this interpretation. Kenneth Wuest writes of verse 7:
This verse begins with hõs, an adverb of comparison having meanings of "in the same manner as, after the fashion of, as, just as." Here it introduces a comparison showing a likeness between the angels of verse 6 and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha of this verse. But the likeness between them lies deeper than the fact that both were guilty of committing sin. It extends to the fact that both were guilty of the same identical sin. The punctuation of the A.V. [KJV] is misleading, as an examination of Greek text discloses.
The A.V. punctuation gives the reader the impression that Sodom and Gomorrha committed fornication and that the cities about them committed fornication in like manner to the two cities named. . . . The words "in like manner" are related to the verbal forms, "giving themselves over to fornication" and "going after strange flesh." In addition to all this, the Greek text has toutois, "to these." Thus, the translation should read, "just as Sodom and Gomorrha and the cities about them, in like manner to these, having given themselves over to fornication and having gone after strange flesh." The sense of the entire passage (vv. 6,7) is that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha and the cities about them, in like manner to these (the angels), have given themselves over to fornication and have gone after strange flesh. That means that the sin of the fallen angels was fornication (Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, vol. II, pp. 241-242).
Some translations do more clearly show what Jude was saying in this Scripture. Below is the literal translation of this passage given in The NKJV Greek English Interlinear New Testament:
JUDE 6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but rather having left their own habitation, He has kept with eternal chains under the netherworld for the judgment of the great day. 7 As Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in a similar manner to these angels having indulged in sexual immorality and having gone after other flesh, are exhibited as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.
The underlying Greek text indicates that the fallen angels left their own domain and indulged in sexual immorality, going after "strange," or "other" flesh. The KJV obscures this fact, probably because the view that the fallen angels were "the sons of God" spoken of in Genesis 6:2,4 was not accepted when it was translated in 1611. Another translation that plainly shows the full magnitude of what Jude was saying is the New English Bible:
JUDE 6 Remember too the angels, how some of them were not content to keep the dominion given to them but abandoned their proper home; and God has reserved them for judgement on the great Day, bound beneath the darkness in everlasting chains. 7 Remember Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbouring towns; like the angels, they committed fornication and followed unnatural lusts; and they paid the penalty in eternal fire, an example for all to see.
It's clear that Jude wrote of the fornication of the angels as a fact. In verse 7 of his epistle, he compares the sexual wickedness in Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding cities to the sin of the angels.
The nature of the angels' fall is also clearly stated in Jude 6, where it is said that they left their own "abode" (Gr. oiketerion). This word occurs in the New Testament only here and in II Corinthians 5:2, where it is used of the spiritual body of a resurrected saint.
II CORINTHIANS 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation [oiketerion] which is from heaven, (NKJV)
There is a great deal revealed in the Bible about angels. Angels could and did assume human form and even eat men's food (Gen. 18-19). Although the Bible doesn't tell us how, Jude 6 shows that some angels left their proper abode (their spiritual bodies) and took on fleshly bodies so as to marry and produce offspring by the daughters of men.
Although the angels committed sexual sins and corrupted the human lineage to some extent, they did something else that threatened to foil God's plan for humanity. Let's go back to 1 Enoch to see what these fallen angels did that affected the human race enormously:
1 ENOCH 8:1 And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all 2 colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they 3 were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjaza taught enchantments, and root- cuttings, Armaros the resolving of enchantments, Baraqijal (taught) astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . . (From The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, translated by R.H. Charles)
As the text above shows, the angels brought with them knowledge which humanity did not have beforehand. This information led to a rapid advance in the knowledge base of the antediluvian society, including the invention of advanced methods of waging warfare. In the NKJV translation of Genesis 6:4, the nephilim are called "mighty men who were of old, men of renown;" however, the NRSV translates that same phrase as "heroes that were of old, warriors of renown."
Genesis 6:11 shows that the earth was filled with violence; this is very likely the direct result of the nephilim, who apparently were mighty warriors. If the ancient legends are indeed based in fact, as they appear to be, these angelic offspring were superhuman in size and great in strength. Therefore the objective of the flood was the destruction of the polluted human bloodline and the eradication of the forbidden knowledge that humanity had learned from the fallen host.
There is one other New Testament passage which hints at the sin of the angels before the flood. It is an enigmatic scripture found in Paul's first letter to the Corinthian church.
I CORINTHIANS 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. 10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. (NKJV)
In I Corinthians 11, Paul states the position of women in relation to men and says that the symbol of authority on a woman's head is needed "because of the angels." Without an understanding of what took place anciently between the fallen host and women, this verse is cryptic at best.
There is opposition to the view that the fallen angels are the "sons of God" referred to in Genesis 6. Some cite Matthew 22:29-30 and Mark 12:24-25 as objections, saying that these Scriptures clearly teach that angels do not marry.
MATTHEW 22:29 Jesus answered and said to them [the Sadducees], "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven." (NKJV)
MARK 12:24 Jesus answered and said to them, "Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." (NKJV)
First, these verses do not state whether angels can marry or procreate. Here Christ was referring only to the way things will be after the first resurrection of the dead. Additionally, the angels in heaven who did not sin are the example cited, not the angels confined to Tartarus because they sinned by marrying humans and producing offspring. To get a better perspective of what Christ was saying, let's look at the parallel account of this conversation in Luke's Gospel.
LUKE 20:34 And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection." (NKJV)
Christ's primary purpose in his answer was to affirm the reality of the resurrection to these questioning Sadducees, who did not believe that there would be a resurrection. As you can clearly see from Luke's account of this confrontation, Christ is making two points about the age to come: (1) Resurrected humans will not marry, and (2) resurrected humans will be given eternal life, which the holy angels now have. Interpreting these Scriptures to mean that angels have never been able to marry or procreate reads more into them than was intended by Jesus.
Some also object by saying that Genesis 6:4 shows that there were nephilim on the earth before "the sons of God" came in to "the daughters of men" and also afterward; therefore, these giants cannot be the offspring of this union. Does the phrase "in those days, and also afterward" mean that the nephilim were present before the the sons of God cohabited with the daughters of men?
"In those days" plainly means the time after the "sons of God" had come down to earth; the fact that they had taken wives is disclosed in Genesis 6:2. In time sequence, chapter six of Genesis should follow chapter four; the fifth chapter is an inset into the story flow. "Afterward" specifies after the flood, when we see another instance of giants appearing, this time in the land of Canaan which the Israelites were to inherit (Num. 13:33). Satan apparently tried to thwart God's plan once more by using these savage giant hybrids to occupy the land of Canaan and keep Abraham's offspring out. Obviously none of the nephilim survived the flood.
These giants are often mentioned in the early books of the Old Testament until the last of them were finally killed off. The word nephilim only appears twice in the Old Testament (Gen 6:4; Num. 13:33), but these giants are also referred to as gibbor (Gen 6:4; Num. 13:33; Job 16:14) and rephaim when they reappear in a more limited fashion after the flood (Gen. 14:5; 15:20; Deu. 2:11, 20; 3:11, 13; Jos. 12:4; 13:12; 15:8; 17:15; 18:16; II Sam. 5:18, 22; 21:16, 18, 20, 22; 23:13; I Chr. 11:15; 14:9; 20:4, 6, 8; Isa. 17:5; 26:14). They were known by the proper names of Rephaim, Emim, Anakim, Horim, Avim, and Zamzummim.
CONCLUSION As shown above, the evidence that "the sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6 are fallen angels is substantial. By their sexual immorality, these angels produced offspring which were strong and violent. The concept of a race of giants which resulted from the union of gods and humans is virtually universal in the world's early civilizations.
The original intent of the angels may have only been to satisfy their forbidden lust. Yet the knowledge they brought with them and taught mankind caused society to develop at a more rapid technological pace than God had intended. This societal development was not positive, and it gave rise to a very violent society, one in which the nephilim apparently played a large role. God was forced to restrain in the Abyss the wicked angels that produced the nephilim, and cleanse the earth of them and the violence they brought with the great Flood.
Such as Wagner's Ring, and other operas, and plays.
Have you ever ponder about these realms?
This is before the flood and I truly feel Noah took the records this knowledge abroad the ARK and somewhere this knowledge still resides somewhere on earth. For every once in the while a glimpse is revealed in a book or movie.
Shepherd's Chapel In depth Bible study.
CTR
Reading JRR Tolkien makes me think of your point.
Most know of the book "The Hobbit" and others may also know "Lord Of The Rings" but his all encompassing work is the "Silmarillion".
In this book God creates the world- and angels, for a time, reside in it. Some become fallen angels, others intermarry with elves and eventually intermarry with humans. sauren-the lord of "The lord of the Rings" and owner of the ring Bilbo Baggins finds in the Hobbit is a lesser angel who followed melkor(the devil) into evil.
lord of the rings will be out this Chrismas.
In scripture, only mankind was referred to as "sons of men." Personally I think it refers to alien involvement. We know there are many dimensions. I think these men came from one of them. There is a haunting scripture--I can't remember where it's from, but it says: "I have sheep in another fold ye know nothing about." That is generally taken to mean gentiles, vs. Jews. But I don't think so. I think it's a separate creation, and I'm not alone---so does Jack Vam Empy.
Angels, whether good or fallen, are pure spirits. They have no bodies, and thus cannot fornicate with human women.
Back to the drawing board.
BTTT
While it is all well and good to debate this kind of thing, and while it is interesting to try and second guess what the writers of the Old Testament were saying, there is something about it that bothers me.
When I drive home from work, I sometimes stop at a convenience store and grab a couple drinks. The clerk has a great deal of interest in the Nephalim (sp) and those things in the ancient of days. He has vast theories of who they were, how they came about and where they have gone. According to him, it's possible that they were demonic, or on the side of Satan, that they have migrated to other planets, that Satan will recall them when it's time for the final showdown.
The thing that bothers me here...it's not important who they were, what they were, or where they went. It might make for interesting conversation, it may gain a Biblical professor his tenure at a college...but it doesn't matter. What matters is that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son..." The Nephalim and all of the others simply don't matter.
People's concern over these things simply detract and distract them from worshipping Christ, and from believing on Him. At times, I have to wonder if these debates/discussions/discoveries are nothing more than the adversaries attempt to distract us.
Anyways, that's my two cents worth.
Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
I'm inclined to believe that the previous sons' looked dissimilar
Methinks Augustine stands head and shoulders above other sources, including you all!
For what it's worth, here's what Nibley has to say about it, in "Enoch the Prophet", page 178-179:
The wickedness of Enoch's day had a special stamp and flavor; only the most determined and entrenched depravity merited the extermination of the race. In apocryphal Enoch stories we are told how humanity was led to the extremes of misconduct under the tutelage of uniquely competent masters. According to these traditions, these were none other than special heavenly messengers who were sent down to earth to restore respect for the name of God among the degenerate human race but instead yielded to temptation, misbehaved with the daughters of men, and ended up instructing and abetting their human charges in all manner of iniquity. They are variously designated as the Watchers, Fallen Angels, Sons of God, Nephilim, or Rephaim, and are sometimes confused with their offspring, the Giants. [The subject has been thoroughly studied by Leo Jung, "Fallen Angels in Jewish, Christian, and Mohammedan Literature," Jewish Quarterly Review, new series 16 (1925-26): 45-88, 171-205, 287-336, and by Bo Reicke, The Disobedient Spirits and Christian Baptism (Copenhagen: E. Mucksgaard, 1946).] Other candidates for this dubious honor have been suggested by various scholars, the trouble being that more than one category of beings qualify as Fallen Angels and spectacular sinners before the time of the Flood. [Thus there are many stories of two fallen angels, going by various names—BHM 4:ix-x:127-28 (Shamkhasi and Asael); 5 (no. 2): xxxix (Harut and Marut); Bin Gorion, Sagen 1:319-21; (Aza and Azael)—whose behavior matches that of the Watchers.] The Bible uses the title sons of God—were they different from the Watchers of tradition?"The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare ... to them ... mighty men.... men of renown.
"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth." (Genesis 6:2, 4-5.)
The idea of intercourse between heavenly and earthly beings was widespread in ancient times. Thus, in the newly discovered Genesis Apocryphon, when Lamech's wife bears him a superchild (Noah), he assumes almost as a matter of course that the father is "one of the angels" and accuses her of faithlessness until his grandfather, Enoch, whose "lot is with the Holy Ones" and who lives far away, clears up the misunderstanding. Significantly, the name of the child's mother is Bit-enosh, that is, she is one of the "daughters of men." [Joseph A. Fitzmeyer, Genesis Apocryphon (Rome: Biblical Institute Press, 1971), pp. 51-55 (col. 2, lines 1-26).] The Cedrenus fragment avoids the problem of heavenly origin by identifying the sons of God and the daughters of men with the descendants of Seth and Cain respectively, and he specifically designates the sons of God as the Watchers. [Georgius Cedrenus, Historiarum Compendium 1:18, and P.G. 121:44.] Recently M. Emanueli has suggested that the various terms are merely "a figure of speech in order to express the depth of the deterioration of that generation." [Moshe Emanueli, "The Sons of God Took Wives Whomever They Chose," Beth Mikra 60 (October-December 1974): 150-52.]
While the sons of God have been identified with both angels and the Watchers, the Greek Enoch does not identify the Watchers with Satan's hosts who fell from heaven from the beginning—they are another crowd. [Noted by Van Andel, Structuur, p. 15.] It is the Joseph Smith Enoch which gives the most convincing solution: the beings who fell were not angels but men who had become sons of God. From the beginning, it tells us, mortal men could qualify as "sons of God," beginning with Adam. "Behold, thou [Adam] art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all men become my sons." (Moses 6:68; italics added.) How? By believing and entering the covenant. "Our father Adam taught these things, and many have believed, and become the sons of God." (Moses 7:1.) Thus when "Noah and his sons hearkened unto the Lord, and gave heed ... they were called the sons of God." (Moses 8:13.) In short, the sons of God are those who accept and live by the law of God. When "the sons of men" (as Enoch calls them) broke their covenant, they still insisted on that exalted title: "Behold, we are the sons of God; have we not taken unto ourselves the daughters of men?" (Moses 8:21), even as "the sons of men," reversing the order, married the daughters of those "called the sons of God," thereby forfeiting their title, "for," said God to Noah, "they will not hearken to my voice." (Moses 8:15.) The situation was, then, that the sons of God, or their daughters who had been initiated into a spiritual order, departed from it and broke their vows, mingling with those who observed only a carnal law.
"Why have you left heaven [and] the Exalted One," says Enoch in a Gizeh fragment, "and ... with the daughters of men defiled yourselves? ... Ye have behaved as sons of Earth and begotten to yourselves giant sons. And you were once holy, spiritual, eternal beings ... and have lusted after the flesh ... as do mortal and perishable creatures." [Gizeh Fragment 15:3-4, in Charles, The Book of Enoch, p. 292.]
Not sure that helps any, but there it is.
funny how you are also tuned into the brother. teaches in a language that even children understand he took about a year to answer our fellowship groups first question, but he still did it. peace see ya on the free side
what is Manna
dont men and angel alike eat it
what does a pure spirit need food for
They are capable of having sex for we are made like them
Say what?
Concerning angels eating manna: Everything we say about angels and their activities on earth is loaded with metaphorical language. Angels are pure spirits. They do not procreate. Each angel is a direct creation of God. Each angel, BTW, is the only member of his species.
Good study. Thanks for the thought-provoking post.
The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
So, hmmm, let's see here. The Sons of God came to the Earth to impregnate the daughters of men to begin a divine/human genetic hybrid line. This 'tribe', you could call it, has existed like a ribbon streaming through the ages to today. This hybrid group of DNA are the true descendants and heritors of the coming kingdom. It's all in the genes, according to the Bible....
Try to stick to the theme of this website. If I want to know the meaning of life, and who the Sons of God were, I will visit the hundreds of other sites that are available on the internet. These type of threads take away from the legitimate discussion of government.
You and others are posting all sorts of threads such as "What is your favorite rock band...big band...favorite cartoon...favorite religion....why is there life....who am I" type threads.
Enough already...
You know what I got to thinking about the other day? With all of this co-mingling of human/animal DNA, I wonder if the ancients did the same thing and that pictures of half animal/half human beings were in fact real?
I wonder if the ancients did the same thing and that pictures of half animal/half human beings were in fact real?
No.
BUMP for later reading
As for angels being pure spirits without bodily form, I tend to disagree leaning towards adamacy.
Recall Lot in Sodom being visited by angels and the angels being called upon by homosexuals for their lust. They definitely had bodily form. They can also interact with our physical domain, as directly implied by Satan himself when he tried to tempt Christ to throw himself off a cliff, thereby having angels who would keep him from even dashing his foot as a proof of his identity.
If encountering any person, follow 1John 4:11, and discern the spirits by testing. Physical phenomena has been reported being caused by these persons, although other laws of physics fail to satisfactorily explain the phenomena without an acceptance of such persons. If none other is provided, I give my personal testimony of such persons, although the identification with "angel" or other creature generally regarded outside the domain of man might be visceral from the given experience.
Angels, whether good or fallen, are pure spirits. They have no bodies, and thus cannot fornicate with human women.
But in the story of Lot, a pair of angels appear to him in human form, so that the people in Sodom think them human strangers. I think there are other examples in the Old Testament
Angels, whether good or fallen, are pure spirits. They have no bodies, and thus cannot fornicate with human women.
Or the nephilim might be aliens, in which case they still, in theory anyway, cannot fornicate with human women. If you believe Harvard's Dr. John Mack, then aliens have been around for millenia, and have always had some fascination with human sexuality and genetics.
I have seen what is commonly described as a UFO. I have seen what are commonly described as ghosts. I have seen a kid go down on his Suzuki at Louden racetrack and walk away unscathed. I have watched the coronor pick up teenager brains off the road after a minor fender bender on a still july morning and witnessed a wind vortex full of sorrow and dying rage linger on the spot where the body had lain.
It's a big universe and man is a clueless meat speck. It is entertaining to surmise as to what a scribe was conveying 3500 years ago about an ancesteral/tribal story going back perhaps thousands of years again into the dark past, but as to who where the nephilim? Prehistoric norse adventerers - aliens - angels in meat mode - pure imagination?
Show me the skeletons.
Have you ever ponder about these realms?
This is very interesting. I was just talking to my brother in law last night (he's a Catholic priest) about an author, Madeleine L'Engle, my daughter really likes. One of her books is "Many Waters" and it takes place in the time just before the flood. The main characters have been transported back in time, and end up in Noah's village. I was telling him about the Seraphim and Nephilim who were characters in the book, and He said it sounded like old Rabinnical writings. I had never heard of those, but reading your post, I now understand from where her ideas came.
If you get a chance to read the book, do it. It is written for the middle school aged child, so an adult can read quickly through it. But it is a fascinating book; I read it to my younger children when they were 8 and 10, and they enjoyed it very much.
Since Scripture does not elaborate, perhaps the important factor is not who exactly they were but what they did, and what their actions mean.
Genesis 6:1-5
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face
of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were
fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man,
for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and
twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after
that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and
they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were
of old, men of renown [lit. men of 'name', ha-shem, which is as 'the name' of
God, Hashem. Interesting word play].
Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man
was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the
thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
What they did: cohabitated/married/reproduced with the daughters of men. Compare Ezra chapter 9:
Ezra 9
1 Now when these things were done, the princes came to me,
saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have
not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing
according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites,
the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the
Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites.
2 For they have taken of their daughters for themselves,
and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled
themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand
of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass.
3 And when I heard this thing, I rent my garment and my mantle,
and plucked off the hair of my head and of my beard, and sat down
astonied [8074,
the same word translated desolate/desolation in e.g. Dan 9:26,27;
11:31, 12:11, as in abomination of desolation].
4 Then were assembled unto me every one that trembled
at the words of the God of Israel, because of the
transgression of those that had been carried away; and I
sat astonied until the evening sacrifice.
5 And at the evening sacrifice I arose up from my heaviness; and
having rent my garment and my mantle, I fell upon my knees, and
spread out my hands unto the LORD my God,
6 And said, O my God, I am ashamed and blush to lift up my face
to thee, my God: for our iniquities are increased over our head,
and our trespass is grown up unto the heavens.
7 Since the days of our fathers have we been in a great trespass
unto this day; and for our iniquities have we, our kings, and our
priests, been delivered into the hand of the kings of the lands,
to the sword, to captivity, and to a spoil, and to confusion of
face, as it is this day.
8 And now for a little space grace hath been shewed from the LORD
our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail
in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us
a little reviving in our bondage.
9 For we were bondmen; yet our God hath not forsaken us in our
bondage, but hath extended mercy unto us in the sight of the
kings of Persia, to give us a reviving, to set up the house of
our God, and to repair the desolations thereof, and to give us a
wall in Judah and in Jerusalem.
10 And now, O our God, what shall we say after this? for we have
forsaken thy commandments,
11 Which thou hast commanded by thy servants the prophets,
saying, The land, unto which ye go to possess it, is an unclean
land with the filthiness of the people of the lands, with their
abominations, which have filled it from one end to another with
their uncleanness.
12 Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons,
neither take their daughters unto your sons [cf. Deu 7:3-4], nor seek
their peace or their wealth for ever [cf. Deut 23:3-6]: that
ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave it for
an inheritance to your children for ever.
13 And after all that is come upon us for our evil deeds, and for
our great trespass, seeing that thou our God hast punished us
less than our iniquities deserve, and hast given us such
deliverance as this;
14 Should we again break thy commandments, and join in
affinity with the people of these abominations? wouldest not thou
be angry with us till thou hadst consumed us, so that there
should be no remnant nor escaping?
15 O LORD God of Israel, thou art righteous: for we remain yet
escaped, as it is this day: behold, we are before thee in our
trespasses: for we cannot stand before thee because of this.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with
unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with
unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or
what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?
for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will
dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and
they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate,
saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will
receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and
daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
BTW 'sons of God' = Bnai ha-Elohim, numeric value = 153
bet 2
nun 50
yud 10
he 5
alef 1
lamed 30
he 5
yud 10
mem 40
"People's concern over these things simply detract and distract them from worshipping Christ, and from believing on Him. At times, I have to wonder if these debates/discussions/discoveries are nothing more than the adversaries attempt to distract us."
I suspect you are correct, but also consider the man who is exposed to such creatures and then must cope with the consequence. This doesn't prevent one from remaining in relationship with Christ or with the Father through Christ, nor remaining in faith with Jesus Christ and being filled with the Holy Spirit.
I have found the best practice if confronted by such things is to remain faithful to Christ and place such things in His hands. Creatures outside the domain of man, nevertheless, fall below the domain of God and still will never be able to overcome God.
I have my hands full in man's domain, and have no desire to mess with the spiritual domain other than my spirit and that of the Holy Ghost per His plan. This might not prohibit a fallen angel or other creature from bumbling around man's domain, but man need not become involved directly, rather rely on the Son for appropriate guidance and action.
Another question arises though. Man is to bear our own burden. If imposed upon by a creature outside of our domain, then by remaining in Him we might also tend to bear our burden, so as not to burden God. Alternatively, if outside our domain, then our reliance on God might not be considered a burden to Him.
I am highly interested in the cause of this article. You see, I've been bumping into things, dreams, interactions not caused by myself over the past year, which only apparant link are to this same topic. These things might be deception, but also may be indicative of the end of times. It's one thing to avoid paranoia. It's another to ignore pertinent events. Discernment is required and Scripture is the best guide I've found to provide that discernment, although faith in God will also allow His grace to abound.
What about Homers Illiad and Odeysee and Platos story of Atlantis. I find this subject extremely fascinating.
A corollary notion to all this is that perhaps the main reason why God chose the Israelites and brought them out of Egypt was specifically to exterminate the remnants of these grotesque "giants" still living in Palestine. This I found in a footnote in a book by the English Biblical scholar Bullinger.
That puts the role of David in an additional light as perhaps the slayer of the last of these bastards, Goliath.
It also makes the notion of a "virgin" birth from a spiritual source not such an unprecedented event.
I wonder if the ancients did the same thing and that pictures of half animal/half human beings were in fact real?
You might find interesting, this passage from the book of Jasher:
4
16 And all the sons of men departed from the ways of the Lord in those days as they multiplied upon the face of the earth with sons and daughters, and they taught one another their evil practices and they continued sinning against the Lord.
17 And every man made unto himself a god, and they robbed and plundered every man his neighbor as well as his relative, and they corrupted the earth, and the earth was filled with violence.
18 And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.
19 And the Lord said, I will blot out man that I created from the face of the earth, yea from man to the birds of the air, together with cattle and beasts that are in the field for I repent that I made them.
http://www.nazarene.net/jasher/
As it was in the days of Noe...
[Most of the visitors to the Free Republic web site are attracted to our very popular (and, warning: addictive) conservative forum which can be found by clicking here or following any of the "Forum/Topics" or "In the Forum" links to the left.]
Hmmmm...among the topics I see are philosophy, culture, miscellaneous...you should be able to find some topic that conforms to your own little universe. Don't be negative here, go be happy elsewhere. It's not good to stress out.
The conspiracy Theory/ New Age crowd are approaching another tense hurdle.
Check out www.ambilac.com recent update regarding a reported message from Christ. Also read a little on Project Blue Beam.
There appears to be either an actual ongoing program for material deception, or a counterfeit sign, or an information warfare campaign to deceive regarding all these 'programs'.
When I read the ambilac message, I felt it was deception in the first paragraph. The body of the message seemed true. The dilemma implied regards the 'Project Blue Beam'.
The project seems highly deceptive/antichristian, but the article indicates otherwise.
I suspect there may be some truth embedded in the ambilac message, in order to give it plausibility, although the message may be false.
It touches along similar lines as this thread and these issues seem to be escalating over the last 4 years.
Thanks for your reply to We The People I feel we are still confronted with them today and in the form of Clinton for one. We were geared to focus elsewhere while these whatever go about their business. I m sure these whatever made a pack with the devil. It our lack of knowledge that gives them power, and should not the children of God become more aware. To take seriously the importance to learn and know of God our Father, to Honor God more instead of taking God for Granted. Our ignorance will destroy many of us if we don't desire the whole word of God. Even after the flood they were aboard the ARK and some became the producers and followers of Nimrod and family. Just because you have read no more of about Nimrod doesn't mean they no longer exist! When our Founding Fathers form this Nation and put together the Republic it endure as long as the story was past on to generation to generation until the usurpers omit delete and distort the words of our Founding Fathers. So today many stumble around thinking were a Democracy instead of a Republic.
What makes you think they didn't do that with the word of God? I say those words are still on earth today for they show up to the advantage of those who are in control to undermined us and to rule over us.
Clinton might come from the family of Nimrod:)
Do you really think a mother of two with little education just sat down one day and wrote the Harry Potter Books or was that a collective effort? Was it only one being draw upon that fount of knowledge? Do you think Star Wars just came out of the blue there were no legends.
Is there not much to search and learned to beable to discern the Messiah when He comes?
In all due respect
Oh goody! I enjoy those pyramid sites. I looked around over there but didn't catch how they came up with the name, ambilac. Did you see it? When I first looked at your post the name look like Ambalak, as if it said 'people of Balak'. LOL! Speaking of secrets of Giza... ever consider that the Sphinx was designed to eventually [in the fullness of time] gaze at its own image, which is on the ground?
Furthermore, a diagram of the interior passages of the Great Pyramid, when superimposed on a ME map [image of the Sphinx], says quite a lot. Key orientation points: 1) the true Apex (extrapolated from the slope of the sides) = Zion (Jerusalem), and 2) the 'heart of the beast' = the center/'heart' of the pyramid, the Queen's chamber i.e. Babylon.
'85 Bears come closest to fitting this description far as I can tell...
The best exposition I've read on the "Sons of God" business is on a controversial website called EndTimesNetwork.com (with the "sons of God" discussion: ("Sons of God" discussion here ). For people who don't like to skip around, here is a rather long excerpt, but it is more interesting and detailed in context:
... The key to the riddle must lie in the use of the word, "stars." It is a code word. But what could it possibly mean? Again, the answer is not all that difficult and is rendered somewhat more intelligible when compared to certain other verses in Revelation chapter 12:
"And another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems [crowns].What does all this mean? Simply on the face of it, these verses are frightening indeed. The use of the word "stars" in Revelation 12 obviously is made in reference to angelic beings. This is substantiated by Job 38:1-7:
"And his tail swept away a THIRD of the STARS of heaven, AND THREW THEM TO THE EARTH. ...
"And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war,
"And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
"And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night.
"For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. [BUT] WOE TO THE EARTH AND THE SEA, BECAUSE THE DEVIL HAS COME DOWN TO YOU, HAVING GREAT WRATH, KNOWING THAT HE HAS ONLY A SHORT TIME." (Rev 12:1-13)
"Then the Lord answered Job [from] out of the whirlwind and said, "Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? "Now gird up your loins like a man, and I will ask you, and you instruct Me! "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, "Who set its measurements, since you (claim to) know? Or who stretched the line on it? "On where were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, "When the morning STARS sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:1-7)A better translation of the term, sons of God, is sons of Elohim, and means literally angels of God; and finally, the term "angels of God" is here equated with morning STARS. This exact same expression occurs four other times in the Old Testament, and in each instance it means "angels of God." Thus, the verses above lend a certain dreadful credibility to the assertions of the UFO cultists, for it cannot possibly be assumed that the sightings referred to above are of God's angels, but rather of Satan's.
Good reading! (But I think this is an area where the only real hope we have as believers is to pray for discernment because the text(s) can be reasonably interpreted so many ways...)
Mark W.
Thank you for taking the time to do that. Very interesting information. The Island of Doctor Moreau isn't so far fetched, after all, is it!
I hesitate to dip my toe in these waters, but here goes. The "sons of God" were the sons of princes and judges. Elohim alway implies rulership; and you shall be to him in God's stead (literally for Elohim) Exodus 6:16. See also Exodus7:1. Thus the very men who should have defended justice openly committed violence. Does this remind you of anyone today?
Hope this helps you out.
"There has been much speculation about who these "sons of God" mentioned in the sixth chapter of Genesis were. Three basic interpretations of this passage have been advanced. "
The Bible also states that the Earth stands still, that the sun moves around it, that Pi equals exactly 3, that bats are a type of bird, that cannabalism is sometimes appropriate behavior.
I think it is time to recognize that the Bible is a collection of myths and legends and allagory and not to be treated as absolute fact.
I think it is also time to point out that Free Republic is a forum for political conservatism, and to point out that there are many forums where Christians can go to discuss their myths and be welcome. It therefore follows that the bible bangers are not here by accident, but by design to subvert this political forum to their prosylatizing (such as they are intending to subvert the public schools into church annexes), and in the process, are probably driving away many readers who realize that discussions regarding angels and heads of pins have nothing whatsoever to do with whether Vince Foster was murdered, who shot down TWA 800, CIA drug running, the ratification of the 16th amendment, and whether the US Government is bankrupt or not.
And that may be the intent of all these bible-banging posts, to destroy Free Republic by drowning out the questions the government doesn't want addressed with this tabloid trash hellfire and damnation.
Note to the Christians. The Earth DOES move, the Bible is flat out wrong on that point, and setting fire to those who point out that the Earth does move will not change the fact that the bible is flat out wrong.
Deal with it.
yeh, whatever.
Angels can act in the world, and can form matter into a "body" in order to be seen and to act on other objects. But the angel is not the "soul" of such a body, and an angel cannot be a party to the procreation of a human being.
Although an angel can appear to a human being by fashioning a "body" from matter, the "body" is not a component of the angel's "self." If you hit me in the head, you are hitting me. If you hit an angel who is appearing in human form in his "head," you are not hitting the angel, but an object the angel has fashioned and is using.
Are you familiar with the tales of the Shaddad--The kingdom of Ad?
How about the Rub al Kali and Irem, City of the Fallen (Djinn)? It's a real place in Oman that was only found recently by satellite imagery. Would it interest you to know that the sands around Irem are just full of fused-sand impact craters?
Yes, the story of the Nephilim is a sideshow to the great miracle of man's redemption through Christ. However, it does explain a lot and it makes all those 'begats' in the Bible make sense, because it was very important that the Messiah as foretold in the Old Testament (Christ) not have the taint of the fallen in him.
The greatest sin against God and man that His fallen sons perpetrated on us is giving us the tools to make living in original sin so comfortable that we do not seek God. This is the carnal world we live in now. Even though the 'physical' manifestations of the Nephilim on earth were destroyed in the Flood, their ideas and influence in the spiritual world live on....
One of my favorite things is to ask a Christian is: Why did God flood the earth?
I have never gotten the same answer twice. Other Christians are really sensitive about the issue of The Watchers, even though it explains a lot of aspects of 'Christianity'. Don't forget that 'Christianity' existed well before Christ, though He is the embodiment
I've found that the study of this subject has only deepened my faith.
an angel cannot be a party to the procreation of a human being.
This subject is discussed in the article above. Can you refute the possibility? Or are you simply afraid of the implications if this were true and the Watchers did once walk the earth 'with the skins of men, but not the eyes of men'?
This story is a sideshow, but an interesting sideshow to the glory of the gospel. It amplifies the great message, it does not refute it.
If you hit me in the head, you are hitting me. If you hit an angel who is appearing in human form in his "head," you are not hitting the angel, but an object the angel has fashioned and is using.
If that hit is with lethal force, does that kill you, or just your body? If the concept of an immortal soul has any meaning at all, then it must mean that your "self" is an immortal spirit which inhabits and controls the body, but which itself continues on after the destruction of the body.
Angels can act in the world, and can form matter into a "body" in order to be seen and to act on other objects. But the angel is not the "soul" of such a body, and an angel cannot be a party to the procreation of a human being.
If an angel can act in the world, and can manipulate matter, then that implies that it can act on the genetic material of a woman's egg cell, give it a complete set of DNA, and make it start dividing.
Whether the angel has the power to implant a soul into that developing body is another issue.
Whether the angel has the power to implant a soul into that developing body is another issue.
I think that's the big issue. The Sumerians--interesting because they seem to have the same stories and seemed to retain some pre-flood knowledge said:
"The Watchmen (the progeny) came to us wearing the skins of men, but not with the eyes of men..."
John 10:16 John 10 John 10:15-17 And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.