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Elementary schoolteacher seizes Bibles given as gifts
AZLE -- The superintendent of a suburban Fort Worth school district said a third-grade teacher confiscated Bibles that were presented as gifts by a student during an Easter party because they weren't approved for distribution.
In a statement Friday, Superintendent Edd Bigbee of the Azle school district said Bibles and other materials distributed in a classroom must first be approved by either the principal or the superintendent.
The incident occurred Thursday at Azle's Eagle HeightsElementary, when a girl in the class began handing out Bibles. Before the children even had the Bibles unwrapped, the teacher asked for them back.
The unidentified parents of the pupil said they didn't see a problem with students giving classmates Bibles.
Parent Dorothy Dethample said she was curious to know why the Bibles were confiscated while other items, mostly food, were not.
"They didn't understand why and neither did I," Dethample said.
Azle is 15 miles northwest of Fort Worth
The chances of that happening are nil. The best thing is to get good kids out of bad public schools.
Can you say Law Suit?...I thought you could!
One of these days these idiot teachers and school administrators will learn...that what students say and do and give each other is not anything they have control over, unless it breaks a law...not their opinion!
The chances of that happening are nil.
And they will continue to be, so long as good people resign themselves to accepting them as inevitable.
Yeah, Ed, you never know what might happen to these kids if they get their hands on bibles.
Every last one of these sanctimonious little bureaucrats needs to swing.
(Yeah, I know. My father-in-law is an assistant principle and my mother-in-law is a teacher not fifty miles from where this incident took place. I am going to have to ask them if they have confiscated any bibles recently.)
Yet another reason to get government out of the school business.
I couldn't agree more, OWK, and I seldom agree with you on most matters!
The saddest fact of this story is that there is probably no policy that would prohibit this exchange between students, but the teacher has been so conditioned against religious expression, that she feared she would be in trouble if this was allowed.
I agree. The schools need to fear lawsuits from Christians as much as they fear lawsuits from the NAACP.
She confiscated the Bibles right after a lesson on accepting others diverse sexual practices and before a class on reaching you inner personal spirit guide. Yeah for public school!!!
It is so unfortunate that the original reasoning behind the forefathers separation of church and state has DEVOLVED into the fiasco and anti-religion phobia that we have today.
A good reading of the federalist papers and personal writings of the forefathers would do teachers, the ACLU, and all others some good!
I couldn't agree more, OWK, and I seldom agree with you on most matters!
I suspect we agree on much more than you'd think.
It is so unfortunate that the original reasoning behind the forefathers separation of church and state has DEVOLVED into the fiasco and anti-religion phobia that we have today.
A good reading of the federalist papers and personal writings of the forefathers would do teachers, the ACLU, and all others some good!
"...confiscated Bibles that were presented as gifts by a student during an Easter party because they weren't approved for distribution. "
Who is in charge of approving the distribution of reading materials presented as gifts? Would the Commissar in charge of this please step forward.
Right - I think her parents should file a lawsuit.
I would sure hate to be standing in that teacher's shoes. I don't think the Lord would look kindly on that teacher's actions.
The schools need to fear lawsuits from Christians as much as they fear lawsuits from the NAACP.
If government were out of the coerced education business, there'd be no need for lawsuits. Christians would be free to choose the education they want for their children. And they wouldn't be robbed to support the advancement of ideas they hold as wrong. The same would be true for those wishing a secular education for their children.
It's GOVERNMENT that creates the problems here.
Can you say Law Suit?...I thought you could!
That's what I want to see. The colleges who trample on students' rights continually lose in court because thay are tyrants who ignore the constitution. Time for the public schools to get bitch-slapped a little.
BUMP!
Most of these situations occur because of the stupidity and rigidity of the faculty and Administration. They have been buffaloed and browbeaten by the 1% of atheists and cower with fear in the corner. However, they seem unafraid of violating Christians rights.
Personally, maybe bibles shouldn't have been handed out during class.
However, if the teacher had a brain, she would have said something like "What a lovely thought Johnny, however, why don't we wait and do this after class." That way any of the students that would be offended by being handed a bible would not have to take one. "Now, Johnny, you make arrangements to meet after school and anyone interested in a new bible can meet you."
What they are worried about is a muslim, athiest, or witchcraft practicing parent being offended,
by their child receiving a bible at school. Twisted logic.
I suspect we agree on much more than you'd think.
Well, this is a good start, isn't it?
You may actually be right about that, although we may arrive at our similar viewpoints from differing perspectives.
Let's see...They were celebrating EASTER in a public school, but the moron teacher saw a problem with a kid distributing Bibles to other kids. Logic alert!! Logic alert!
It is so unfortunate that the original reasoning behind the forefathers separation of church and state has DEVOLVED into the fiasco and anti-religion phobia that we have today. A good reading of the federalist papers and personal writings of the forefathers would do teachers, the ACLU, and all others some good!
A thorough understanding of the concept of rights and liberty, would make it clear that the very CONCEPT of public schools is a violation of rights. It is immoral to confiscate a man's property, to make him pay for the advancement of ideas he does not share or support. All education should be private. Until it is, you will continue to have every special interest group, and every secular group, and every religious group, and every sexual advocacy group, beating each other over the head with government, in an attempt to gain control over an inherently immoral coerced education system.
Get government out of the school business.
Let's see...They were celebrating EASTER in a public school, but the moron teacher saw a problem with a kid distributing Bibles to other kids. Logic alert!! Logic alert!
Sharp as bowling balls, aren't they?
Is there a word for God phobis (like homophobia... God-phobia???). I think whatever the word is has to be used and used a lot. The liberals win people over by repeating things over and over while we sit back and stew over it.
"...confiscated Bibles that were presented as gifts by a student during an Easter party....."
Distributing Bibles during a party to celebrate a religious holiday? I guess it depends on what the meaning of "Easter" is........
Is there a word for God phobias (like homophobia... God-phobia???). I think whatever the word is has to be used and used a lot. The liberals win people over by repeating things over and over while we sit back and stew over it.
I am not sure about a lawsuit. Money is always involved in a lawsuit even if it ends up just being lawyer fees. Let's assume the parents win and get "their point across". The school board pays the lawyer fees out of taxpayer money. The "teacher" is moved into an adminstrative post at probably a higher salary. Then we start all over again on the next issue.
The best strategy is to walk. Every Christian should remove their children from public schools. Every non-Christian that is a freedom loving individual should remove their children from public schools. When this happens then we will see change. This is the only strategy that is going to work. There will be no "legislation" that will improve the situation until we have all left and the "public schools" are no longer money making machines.
Deophobia, maybe?
They were celebrating EASTER in a public school
I will bet you five dollars that they were NOT celebrating Easter. Oh, they may have had a egg hunt or had someone dressed like a bunny deliver candy (probably spiked with Ritalin), but they were not celebrating Easter.
Who is in charge of approving the distribution of reading materials presented as gifts? Would the Commissar in charge of this please step forward
The correct answer as far as I'm concerned is, that the parents are, in the form of the school teachers and administrators who they contracted to educate and direct their children during school hours. This arrangement unfortunatly does not exist in compulsary government run schools.
The concept is solid however. If you substitute girly mags for the bibles in question.
Regards
An Easter party that celebrated Death and Resurrection would not be allowed in a public school so I guess you're right, it depends on what the definition of Easter is
Yet another reason to get government out of the school business.
You are exactly right!
I think your first paragraph is right on, but the rest I have some problems with.
I see no problem with students exchanging materials between themselves unless it is clearly inappropriate (pornographic or prurient). I have more of a problem with some of the "approved" curriculum that supports an athiest govt. imposed philosophy.
If my children were given materials from another student that supported an alternate religion in class, I would talk to them about it and most likely have them return it or simply get rid of it. It is not the govt. school's job to censor what students give to each other.
BTW, OWK is right in asserting that if the govt. would get out of the business of schooling and left it to the private sector, these problems would disappear, along with many other problems. If a school of my choosing elected to have guidelines about these things, I would be fine with that, but I don't want the govt. doing it.
The best thing is to get good kids out of bad public schools.
Oh and that solves the whole problem, doesn't it?
Silly me, I can't beleive an answer so obvious to the corruption in public schools has eluded me. Thank you for your great wisdom.
Ill bet if she was giving out condoms they wouldnt have to be approved.....
Board up your local Government School.
The chances of that happening are nil.
Your contentment with failure is plainly made obvious in this statement.
And they will continue to be, so long as good people resign themselves to accepting them as inevitable.
Geez, OWK, you sound like one of those preachers standing on a hillside waiting for the new Jerusalem to descend from the Heavens.
What criteria is used to approve a Bible?
This is sad. I do believe that most schools need to understand that if a student wants to pray or sing hymns or bring Christmas or Easter presents, if it is the student initiating it, it is constitutional. When I taught in Fairfax County a few years ago, I had students bring in a Christmas tree and ornaments and because they brought them in instead of me it was acceptable to the Principal. It was a great class.
All... Have any of you read the book..."And nothing but the truth." By Jay Sekulow of the ACLJ... He is the christian version of Mark Levin.....The horror stories in there would make your hair stand on end...Like the 6 yoa girl who was disciplined for typing "Jesus" on her computer during a typing class....
I'm sure you would like to flap your arms and fly to the Bahamas but you would be better served to buy a plane ticket. I realize that is settling for failure but your arms will eventually wear out.
...but the moron teacher saw a problem with a kid distributing Bibles to other kids.
My friends mom is a public school teacher, and I hear her stories alot.She would have done the same in this situation I bet, and she is a Christian.
Public school teachers don't have a choice. Every thing they do must be thought out very meticulously. Everyhting they do can be used by students to get them fired. She has many minority students who try every chance they get to show that she is prejudice, so they can get an easy ride through the class.
The best thing is to get good kids out of bad public schools.
And leave the 'bad' kids in the public schools, to be turned into good little socialist Dim voters? Your solution scares me.
MA
But I guess if she had handed out a book titled "How to Be Happy With Your Gay Parents" it would have been ok.
is this Berlin 1932?
What?
I am not even intersted in going to the Bahamas.
In any case I can't fly with my arms...it would prove to be failure to do so.
As opposed to what? Leaving the good kids in to get killed or indoctrinated? Pass. I'm tired of the cookie cutter solution. If enough kids pull out, the public schools will have to change.
I'm sure you would like to flap your arms and fly to the Bahamas but you would be better served to buy a plane ticket. I realize that is settling for failure but your arms will eventually wear out.
You're comparing the laws of physics to the laws of public policy. Apples to oranges!
The best thing is to get good kids out of bad public schools.
Get all kids out of bad schools. As a mom I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to children: they are all good. Public schools make them bad.
This is really getting sad....and in Texas no less. I loved it when my daughter went to Catholic school....the art projects she came home with were beautiful. Government schools stangle free speech.
Liberal, leftist, social criteria.
If enough kids pull out...
Pull out and go where?
The chances of the government getting out of the schools is about the same as your chances to flap your arms and fly. I wish it would happen but I need to deal with reality.
Private school or homeschool
My standard six word reply still stands:
...nor prohibiting the free excercise thereof...
Did this happen before or after they distributed the WICCAN Handbook in social studies class?
I'm disgusted enough already. I don't need further evidence produced to convince me that government run schools are a total failure.
We are STILL paying the taxes to support them.
Welcome Lucyredboots! You are new! Free Republic is a great place to post your opinions!
So I am supposed to have faith in the public school system when I can't have FAITH in the public school system???
Did the teachers confiscate the 'sugared' products that might have an effect on the 'hyperactive' kids? Or, the valentines that might be construed as more than just friendship?
The chances of the government getting out of the schools is about the same as your chances to flap your arms and fly.
Well, I won't allow myself that kind of thinking. As long as there is failure I will always strive to see accomplishment.
I am going to make a wild guess here, but you are obviously, to me, someone above the age of 40. Only reason I state this, and don't take it offensively, because I find most in that age range find that contentment with failure is thier only option and that to fight for anything more would just be a waste of time.
I hope that I never fall into this mold.
Yeah, but I'll bet the NAMBLA literature was okayed!
Then she put on her hat and took off on her broom.
If enough kids pull out, the public schools will have to change.
What makes you think that the educrats will want to change the schools, other than to throw more of our tax dollars down the rathole, no matter how bad they get? Their pet doctrines and social engineering schemes are being advanced there. Yes, leaving is good, but shutting them down would be better.
You won't be finding my kid in a public school.
MA
Fisting allowed, Bibles not.
Precisely.
Barf.
And so, my wife and I would turn to each other and say, "Reason #4940 why we homeschool."
You may (or may not) have heard that something similar happened to us when we had our daughter in public shool. They had a sharing day every week, where kids could bring books, toys, whatever, and share. They could bring anything they wanted, anything.
Well, anything except a Bible, even a cartoon Bible, as my daughter found to her embarrassment.
Dan
"Is there a word for God phobias?"........"Deophobia?"
Maybe 'theophobia'; presumably a Deist could be a theophobe.
"Elementary schoolteacher seizes Bibles given as gifts."
Elementary schoolteacher censures student's free expression by confiscating 'politically incorrect' student gifts of all-time #1 bestseller.
Let's see...They were celebrating EASTER in a public school
Yes, but I believe the easter that is celebrated nowadays...on of easter bunnies, chocolates, jelly beans, etc. I sure the classroom was decorated with bunnies, candy, pastels. As of the Christmas holidays, the secular has taken precedence.
Government schools stangle free speech.
This deserves repeating, although I think you meant "strangle"!!
Private school or homeschool
How?
Most, if not all, kids are in public schools because they come from a family that cannot afford better education. Public schools are a monopoly.
My parents, for example, could only afford for one of us to be homeschooled. I had to take the bullet and go to public schools. My parents would've had both of us in home-schooling had it been affordable, but with the government legally stealing 47% (or is it now 48%) of our income it makes it impossible for average mid-income house-hold to provide alternate education.
Thus, the vicious little trap is made.
It's GOVERNMENT that creates the problems here.
With no help from atheistic ideologues crawling out of the woodwork?
Also in the news: Flash! A boss in Chicago demanded that his employees refrain from wearing religious jewelry or have religious pictures in their cubicles. Hence, all of capitalism is evil and wicked and corrupting and it must be abolished.
After 40 years, I learned that fighting reality is a loser. The best thing to do is work to change the situation rather than wishing it wasn't so.
When you are 42 and the schools are exactly the same as they were when you were 20, maybe you will quit wishing and start working.
When you hit a critical mass (and I don't know what it is) where more voters/taxpayers children are going to private schools or are being homeschooled than attend public school then you will see a tax revolt to have a drastic reduction/elimination of property tax.
You won't be finding my kid in a public school.
And I hope that when I start my own family I will be able to afford for proper education, and not have to resort to the public education.
I do beleive if I couldn't afford it, that I would still refuse to send my kids to public schools.
They won't be shut down. As a matter of fact, they are expanding as we speak. But if enough parents pull out, the parents will realize they are paying for a loser and insist on more autonomy for their education dollar. When you are robbing Peter to pay Paul, you have Paul's undying support.Parent's whose kids are not in public school are less likely to mindlessly clamor for more money for the public schools. It's a start.
A good reading of the federalist papers and personal writings of the forefathers would do teachers, the ACLU, and all others some good!
Maybe if they just read the constitution! :-)
When you are 42 and the schools are exactly the same as they were when you were 20, maybe you will quit wishing and start working.
First off, I am in no way "wishing". This issue, as well as others(Carnivore), are issues that I work very hard in seeing change. I deliver posters and fliers in many cases about these things. Many fliers that I deliver come off of FR. I do this mainly door to door, and speak person to person.
When I am 42, if all goes well with my plans, I will be a politician fighting for that change.
You see, I am in no way wishing.
Every teacher in the country should be asked if they believe in God. If they respond in the affirmative, the they should be fired because they shouldn't be allowed to bring those kinds of thoughts into the classroom. Separation of church and state you know.
Then the same question should be asked of all elected amd appointed officials in all levels of government. Maybe we can get rid of enough of these idiots to where we can start over.
Hmmm. OWK must have taken a work break...
God-phobia???).
Theophobic
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom. -Proverb
Their problem is not a fear of God, but a lack of fear.
"The best thing is to get good kids out of bad public schools.
"
#1: There are no "public" schools. Only government thought asylums.
#2: The best thing to do is to jail parents who abuse their offspring by committing them to a government asylum. There aren't many crimes worse than child abuse.
I learned that fighting reality is a loser.
So then, the reality that at one time the Constitution was respected, escapes you?
Most, if not all, kids are in public schools because they come from a family that cannot afford better education
Well if we are going to paint with broad brushes, then why can't they afford it? Is it because they will not give up the new car payment and just buy an old clunker? Is it because they must have the latest Nintendo in the house? Is it because have to play golf every weekend? Blah, Blah, Blah, etc.
Seriously, what we spend on materials is less than what we spent on registration fees, books, bake sales, snack days that we were responsible for, and on and on. Most parents can afford to homeschool much easier than to send their children to private schools, but in my opinion they can afford private schools if they get their priorities straight.
Not related to schooling, but my wife and I took a 50% pay cut for her to stay home with our oldest son. That was a big hit in our home because we are not rich, but we sacrificed for the more important task (raising our children) and it was (and still is) worth it.
The best strategy is to walk. Every Christian should remove their children from public schools.
What about the parents that cannot afford private schools and can't do home schooling. Home schooling is great for those that are equipped to do it well. However, home schooling can also be disastrous if parents are not able to do an effective job of teaching.
Good teachers are worth an awful lot to our country. We should be able to get our schools straightened out so that access to these good teachers can benefit our young.
I guess you have to start somewhere - since I am able to stay with my son and homeschool, that's my plan.
When you are robbing Peter to pay Paul, you have Paul's undying support
If only we could convince Paul that he's being 'paid' with fake Monopoly money, in the form of socialist indoctrination rather than a real education for his kids, perhaps even he will start getting the idea that it's not a good thing.
MA
With no help from atheistic ideologues crawling out of the woodwork?
Without government power with which to subjugate their neighbors, the secular folks you fear, would be unable to influence you at all. That's why rights are important.
Also in the news: Flash! A boss in Chicago demanded that his employees refrain from wearing religious jewelry or have religious pictures in their cubicles.
And certainly that would be the business owner's right. Just as it would be the business owner's right to hire only religious folk if that is what he wanted. The business belongs to him. It is HIS property, not the states. The right to establish the use conditions of his property belong to him. But unfortunately the business owner's legitimate rights are subjugated by a government, in defense of false civil rights.
Hence, all of capitalism is evil and wicked and corrupting and it must be abolished.
You certainly seem to think so. But thankfully you are not representative of most FR participants.
Well if we are going to paint with broad brushes, then why can't they afford it?
re: my post 71.
Most parents can afford to homeschool much easier than to send their children to private schools, but in my opinion they can afford private schools if they get their priorities straight.
Well, my parents did everyhting they could, aside from mortgaging the house just to afford for one of us(me or my brother) to be home schooled. We have very little luxuries at all, and sacrificed much so my brother could get a decent education.
Hmmm. OWK must have taken a work break...
What kind of break are you taking?
We should be able to get our schools straightened out so that access to these good teachers can benefit our young
My point is that until something catastrophic happens (money, money, money) nothing is going to change. Sex, drugs, shootings, you name it is not "straightening" out anything as far as learning goes, it is only changing the schools into prison camps. Hit them in the pocket book severely then you will see change.
See my previous post about "affording" it. If everyone gets their priorities straight then the vast majority of people can "afford" homeschooling/private schooling.
I'm sorry if I am offending people, but I personally know plenty of people that say they can't afford it, but have nice boats, get new cars every few years, go out to eat at the priciest restaraunts, etc.
And they will continue to be, so long as good people resign themselves to accepting them as inevitable.
There is nothing stopping most people from removing their kids from public scrools. There just aren't many people with guts anymore. I am reading a history of the American West called Men to Match the Mountains by Irving Stone, and the thing you realize reading their stories is how much grit people had back in the day: men, women, and children. Wagon trains, indian raids, crossing the Sierra Nevadas, settling, prospecting. That's a breed that has left us for good it seems. There's a line from Albert Camus that fits the USA perfectly:
We are a nation in slippers.
All the tools necessary for improving the quality of life are right at our feet, but most people don't have the sense, the guts, the werewithal, to pick 'em up and use them. Everyone is entitled to everything. Sacrifice has been abolished. It's a shame. It really is. So, yeah, I agree with you that public scrools are a problem, that private education is better, that self-government is better. But the system is not to blame. It is the people who are to blame. That's just MHO, of course.
Everyone knows that Easter is about rabbits hiding eggs and pretty dresses and new clothes! It has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus! (sarcasm off)
It really disgusts me that the teachers can promote any type of freaked out enviro garbage they want but if a child hands out bibles, somehow that is against the "seperation of church and state" (which ought to be renamed the "seperation of state from God")
CJ seems to be implying that he approves of public schools. I find that quite surprising.
Regards,
MA
Particularly when "compassionate conservative" education liberals like President W. automatically INCREASE BY 11% the Department of Education's budget while at the same time REFUSING to increase the beleaguered DoD's budget without a "budget review."
When I read this, my heart sank.
So, yeah, I agree with you that public scrools are a problem, that private education is better, that self-government is better. But the system is not to blame. It is the people who are to blame. That's just MHO, of course.
I can't disagree with that, nor did I intend to. It is we (the people) who created and nurtured the socialist drift in our republic. It is we, who accepted the infringement of our rights. It is we who sacrificed liberty to the altar of "common good". And it is only we, who can restore things to their rightful place.
All the tools necessary for improving the quality of life are right at our feet, but most people don't have the sense, the guts, the werewithal, to pick 'em up and use them.
Exactly, problem is, instead of using these tools and taking responsibility, these people would rather be content with failure, our government, handling the issue, because people in general have become lazy.
But the system is not to blame. It is the people who are to blame. That's just MHO, of course.
That's my opinion as well, and if we accept failure as the only option, and buy into what people like Appy preach, we will continue to be content with failure.
CJ seems to be implying that he approves of public schools. I find that quite surprising.
CJ seems to approve of government control of damned-near everything.
I don't find it surprising at all.
Particularly when "compassionate conservative" education liberals like President W. automatically INCREASE BY 11% the Department of Education's budget...
Wasn't this the very thing Republicans were once about abolishing? Wasn't this what Reagan preached? Or was I a Republican at one time under false premises?
Wasn't this the very thing Republicans were once about abolishing?
10 years ago, I was a republican. I stood for small government, personal liberty, and personal responsibility.
5 Years ago, I was a republican. I stood for small government, personal liberty, and personal responsibility. But I looked around, and noticed that all the republicans that used to be standing with me, hand wandered off to the left. They had embraced big government, socialism, and a control society.
Today I am a libertarian. I stand for small government, personal liberty, and personal responsibility.
"When I read this, my heart sank."
Keep smiling. I have known of situations where a budget was increased by as much as 33% in a department, and within a year the entire department was abolished.
Bonuses before bankruptcy? Didn't it just happen to Pacific Gas and Electric here in California? Money for education spent the 'right' way, rather than the 'left or Third' way may be a great thing for America and the world.
What others intend for 'evil', He will use it for good.
What others intend for 'evil', He will use it for good.
The very existence of a federal department of education, is an unconstitutional evil. Evil cannot be used for good.
Hmmm.
Easter party...bibles...
What's the connection here?
(sarcasm)
Today I am a libertarian. I stand for small government, personal liberty, and personal responsibility.
In most cases I find that Libertarians make the best sense around. I don't deny the fact that there are still some good Republicans out there. Thing is, if most took a real good look around, they'd find that they are actually more Libertarian.
But becuase the Republican party fell so easily to corruption, I can't allow myself to be a Libertarian completely. I consider myself to still be learning in any event, and it is too early for me to just hand my allegiance over to a party.
I do know one thing, if Republicans continue to go the route they are going, towards socialism, big government, and failure, then I don't see myself as being anyhting other than a Libertarian. Even though there are a few issues that I don't totally agree on, they are far out-numbered by those issues of socialism and big government that the Republicans continue to push for that I don't agree on.
Mark 9:42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.
but it's okay, without PARENTAL consent to had a special assembly on abortion, of course promoting it and practically crucifying little ones that don't buy into the idea that homosexuality is normal. Well at least they are consistent. The Word of God speaks rather plainly on these two issues and hence the Word of God MUST be banned. The heck with the first amendment. That doesn't apply to those who disagree with the godless.
Nil, AP? It happened, and I blame the idiot teacher for confiscating the Bibles, and the superintendent for not returning them to the students.
Students have the 'right' to distribute literature to other students on campus during school hours as long as it is not disrupting the 'learning environment'.
Since the student distributed Bibles during a gift exchange activity, there was no disruption of learning.
The student acted within generally accepted parameters.
Thank you so much for your support. Don't let these idiots who say there should be no public schools get you down. Maybe they haven't heard yet, but "It takes a village".
Keep on fighting for the best that government has to offer.
Your pal,
Hil
Yeah, liberals are phobic, God phobic and anything that represents righteous values and beliefs. Yup, it scares the hell out of liberals to see others not abide by their godless lifestyle. This is why EXTREME tactics must be intstigated so others can be as godless as they are.
"10 years ago, I was a republican. I stood for small government, personal liberty, and personal responsibility.
5 Years ago, I was a republican. I stood for small government, personal liberty, and personal responsibility. But I looked around, and noticed that all the republicans that used to be standing with me, hand wandered off to the left. They had embraced big government, socialism, and a control society.
Today I am a libertarian. I stand for small government, personal liberty, and personal responsibility."
Substitute 'religious' for 'a republican', and 'christian' for 'libertarian', and we are both 'anchored' in certain beliefs for today and for eternity.
Changing labels does not necessarily signify a 'change' in product--and sometimes it does.
That I think you are a man of God in an agnostic's clothing is irrelevent, OWK, because I do not know or cannot judge your heart. Similarly, I see you as 'gifted and blessed', but that, too, may mean nothing to you. That I call you friend, to me, and many others here at FR, is of significance---because you are, and always have been and will be.
"Evil cannot be used for good."
By man, 'leaning on his own understanding'.
These turned up in my email this morning:
MA
"So this is the 21st century to which Bill Clinton built a bridge, a nation with a growing and entrenched lifelong chasm between those (like Chelsea Clinton) who grow up in ambitious families and attend demanding schools, and those who don't have such luck; a nation where a stunning 60 percent of poor children and minority children are shoveled through the schools and out the other end, largely illiterate and innumerate, all set for--hurrah! -- that good life at Burger King." --Michael Kelly on "school reform"
"This country was far more literate before education became a state province than it is today. In fact, if education had remained private, any proposal to turn it over to the state would shock all lovers of liberty. But by now Americans are inured to the intellectual serfdom of state education." --Joseph Sobran
No, they were celebrating Easter Bunny and Spring. Think Easter and their mind fills with collered eggs! Where did we go wrong???
Keep on fighting for the best that government has to offer.
Yeah, because it has proven to produce sooooooo much success. Why sooooo much in fact that it is quite pointless for me to list all the success government has produced as it would take way too long to jot 'em all down....or is that the failures?
Where did we go wrong???
The day we neglected the Constitution and over-steped its' bounds.
No matter how good the intention may be, when we cross the bounds of the Constitution because of a "compeling interest", we leave the door wide open for the oposition to over-step the bounds as well for "compeling interests", no matter how evil their intentions may be.
Voters who vote for these people, Republicans/Democrats, have no one to blame but themsleves. Liberals exist and have so much influence because Republicans have allowed it.
That's my opinion as well, and if we accept failure as the only option, and buy into what people like Appy preach, we will continue to be content with failure.
I don't think Appy was preaching failure. He said:
"The chances of that happening are nil. The best thing is to get good kids out of bad public schools."
I happen to agree with him that public scrools are here to stay. But his second point is the key. Get kids out of bad scrools. And guess what? Most parents can do that anytime they choose. So, there is an optimism in the fact that a solution exists. I happen to be pessimistic about the American people, so I am not holding my breath. Point is, the choice is ours. Public scrools will shut down when enrollment is below 20%. And enrollment will be below 20% when parents send their kids elsewhere. Fact is, aside from the concerned parents in poor neighborhoods, and the Christians, the great mass of Americans are quite as happy with public scrools as they are with McDonald's hamburgers.
Liberals exist and have so much influence because Republicans have allowed it.
No. It exists because the people demand it. You can't take away a program with the kind of participation the public scrools have. It is wrong to blame the GOP. What would you have them do? If 90% of people send their kids to school there, well, that settles it, doesn't it? When the people no longer send their kids to public scrools, then they will be a welfare education program--smaller, less intrusive, more justifiable. In the meantime, I'd be hard pressed to tell a guy who depends on votes for a job to even suggest taking away something as beloved as public scrools.
What they can do, and have done, is offer and promote alternatives. But people have to lead on this. Not politicos.
"Get kids out of bad scrools."
You are correct. Having FAITH in public scrools is not permissable. {;~)
I thought the First Amendment said something about freedom of the press and no government interference with an establishment of religion.
So it seems that the pupil's First Amendment rights were violated coming and going.
I know personally many friends and family who would love to get their kids out of public schools. The current income tax just will not allow this. As matter of fact ALL I know who are sneding their kids to public schools want to take them out. There is very little option financially. The government has created a nice vicious little trap.
I accept the reality that schools were at one time private, and therefor can be again.
That's a pretty lame post, Hil. You've really gone off your game since Bill's been hitting the bars, haven't you?
I heard a question the other day that I thought was interesting. If the schools can't have prayers and Bibles, how can they justify closing school for Good Friday?
Carolyn
If the kids had given out condoms, birth control or gay literature it would have been OK...
Welcome!
| Hillary Ridem Clinton | ideologue since April 17th, 2001 |
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Welcome!
Thank you so much for your warm welcome, and for your enthusiastic support of government control. Where would we be without government control of our schools, and of our lives?
It takes a village.
Your pal,
Hil
There you are. Did you really mean to imply that you approve of publik skules?
MA
Would it be a Commissar or a Reading Czar? All your child are belong to us!
Would it be a Commissar or a Reading Czar? All your child are belong to us!
"I heard a question the other day that I thought was interesting. If the schools can't have prayers and Bibles, how can they justify closing school for Good Friday?"
Ever see ANY government worker turn down a chance to slack off on the job? Heck, if they had their way the school semseter would be two weeks but of course they'd demand to be paid for the normal school year. Liberals are lazy and will use any means to promote that, even if it means being hypocritical. Alsoby taking that day off it gives the foolish reason to believe that aw, they believe in God after all. No they don't. They only believe in themselves and teach godless values and beliefs.
"A good reading of the federalist papers and personal writings of the forefathers would do teachers, the ACLU, and all others some good!"
But if they can't read, they'll never know that. MOST can't read accoerding to grade level. Besides the founders were all evil white men so what is written couldn't be true or good. See, they have all bases covered. They've managed to keep them fat (obese), dumb and happy all at the same time.
"A good reading of the federalist papers and personal writings of the forefathers would do teachers, the ACLU, and all others some good!"
But if they can't read, they'll never know that. MOST can't read according to grade level. Besides the founders were all evil white men so what is written couldn't be true or good. See, they have all bases covered. They've managed to keep them fat (obese), dumb and happy all at the same time.
The best way to control people is to keep them distracted through entertainment and as dumb as possible. The left is succeeding with public approval.
"She confiscated the Bibles right after a lesson on accepting others diverse sexual practices and before a class on reaching you inner personal spirit guide. Yeah for public school!!! "
If this is true then we shouldn't wonder why these Bibles were confiscated. Most likely the teacher is a homosexual or possibly some sort of a pedaphile. Of couse I'm exagerating a tad but do YOU know what kind of background checks are done on teachers or those working in the school? Let me tell you, if they have standards they are VERY loose and liberal. Kids and their welfare are the last concern of these folks. It's just a necessary evil to be around these little ones so that they can indoctrinate them with their agenda.
It will continue till school choice is available for all. Wake up George Bush. It must be dealt with NOW not three years from now.
"She confiscated the Bibles right after a lesson on accepting others diverse sexual practices and before a class on reaching you inner personal spirit guide. Yeah for public school!!! "
If this is true then we shouldn't wonder why these Bibles were confiscated. Most likely the teacher is a homosexual or possibly some sort of a pedaphile. Of couse I'm exagerating a tad but do YOU know what kind of background checks are done on teachers or those working in the school? Let me tell you, if they have standards they are VERY loose and liberal. Kids and their welfare are the last concern of these folks. It's just a necessary evil to be around these little ones so that they can indoctrinate them with their agenda.
It will continue till school choice is available for all. Wake up George Bush. It must be dealt with NOW not three years from now.
The current income tax just will not allow this. As matter of fact ALL I know who are sneding their kids to public schools want to take them out. There is very little option financially. The government has created a nice vicious little trap.
I am not disagreeing. They may well not be able to afford it. Maybe they have too many kids to send them all to private school. As far as I know, a year of tuition costs about $5,000, less for a parochial school. An extra $100 per week would cover that. I wonder if they could cancel their cable bill. That's about 30-40 bucks right there. Only $70 to go. How about cutting the kids hair yourselves? That's another $12 per haircut. How about getting the kids to work on weekends, if they are old enough, mowing lawns, pulling weeds, and using that money for school? How about not eating out? How about renting fewer movies? How about not wearing name brand sneakers? Etc, etc etc.
I am just throwing ideas out there, and suggesting that I suspect the vast majority of parents could get it done if it were important enough to them. Where is the pioneer spirit? It's dead. I suspect, in most cases, it is a choice people make, not real necessity. But I take your word for it your friends are not those cases.
I accept the reality that schools were at one time private, and therefor can be again.
Doubtful. Anyway, if it is to be so, FIRST Americans will have to rediscover the virtue of sacrifice.
"Let's see...They were celebrating EASTER in a public school, but the moron teacher saw a problem with a kid distributing Bibles to other kids. Logic alert!! Logic alert!"
Not necessarily, a logic alert. They don't dare breathe a word about Jesus Christ. Nah, they emphasize the Easter bunny, eggs and other humanistic teachings. It's all a distraction AWAY from the Word fo God. This way there appears to be some secular tolerance however truth is still not allowed to be talked about or expressed - His death, and resurrection. So you see they have accomplished what they wanted and managed again to minimize Jesus Christ and what He did for us.
"I would sure hate to be standing in that teacher's shoes. I don't think the Lord would look kindly on that teacher's actions."
Most likely she doesn't know God and hence does not fear Him. The Lord will not look kindly on this teacher. Even if this teacher proclaims that he/she is a Christian, the truth is a best he/she is "luke warm" and we all know how that is looked upon according to the Bible.
Is that supposed to be "It Takes A Village" or "It Takes A Village IDIOT"? Just curious.
I believe--now, I could be wrong here---but I believe if you go back and read the two posts made by Hillary Ridem Clinton that she's doing a tongue-in-cheek send-up of the dear Senator from New York. Feet firmly planted in sarcasm.Perhaps a kindred spirit of "Hillary's Lovely Legs".....
Most, if not all, kids are in public schools because they come from a family that cannot afford better education. Public schools are a monopoly.
My parents, for example, could only afford for one of us to be homeschooled. I had to take the bullet and go to public schools. My parents would've had both of us in home-schooling had it been affordable, but with the government legally stealing 47% (or is it now 48%) of our income it makes it impossible for average mid-income house-hold to provide alternate education.
Thus, the vicious little trap is made.
Sorry, ashrad, I don't buy this at all. I homeschool my three kids who range from kindergarten through 11th grade. It is WAY cheaper to homeschool than send your kids to public school, if you're prudent about what you buy. Our curriculum is usually used, but still very serviceable. The library is a great resource, etc. Add to that the fact that you don't have to buy new school clothes every year. You can prepare lunches at a fraction of what you'd have to dish out to the kids every day for school lunches. In addition, there isn't a "$10.00 for school pictures," money for candy/magazine/junky Christmas gift fundraisers, "$4.50 for a field trip, etc." We've also found that illnesses do not come around as much when your kids aren't exposed to every cough and sniffle that comes down the pike, so doctor's bills are less.
There are so many ways to cut corners financially, that if a family homeschools one, I can't understand how they would be unable to homeschool two.
Indubitably so. While the real Hillary is an ideologue, so is her imposter, and both choose to turn a blind eye to evil.
Turn a blind eye to evil? No, certainly not people like you and I my friend. It is those evil conservatives and lovers of liberty who turn a blind eye to evil.
They think that people should raise their own children. And that they should be allowed to think and do for themselves. And that the fruits of their labors belong to them. And that they should be unhidered by government, so long as they don't violate the rights of others.
Can you even imagine such a thing? It would be absolutely evil.
Good thing there are still people like you and I, to make sure that government inserts itself into everyone's lives (for their own good of course).
You don't let those people get you down with their silly talk about rights and the constitution. You keep right on telling them how important government is to them, and that they couldn't possibly live without us telling them what to do.
Remember, It Takes a Village.
Your Pal,
Hil
BWAAAHAAHAAAHAAAAA....
Absolutely priceless.
Of course parents should be the ones to raise their own children, but there are unfit parents out there, and we as a society should not wink at or turn a blind eye to the effects of unfit parenting. Would the L.P. ideologues just ignore a child left wandering on a highway, since it's the parent's responsibility to see for his or her safety? Of course not! We are all our brother's keeper, and if our brother chooses to ignore the kindness of religious morality and ethical values, then the law should step in to remind him of his obligation.
Your act plays real well with the voting Soccer Moms, by the way. Keep it up! We always enjoy seeing ideologues marginalize themselves. ;)
We are all our brother's keeper, and if our brother chooses to ignore the kindness of religious morality and ethical values, then the law should step in to remind him of his obligation.
Exactly. We are all our brothers' keeper. That's what my book "It Takes a Village" was all about. Each of us should stick our noses in everyone else's business, and when possible, we should use government to do it.
We should enforce "kindness". We should take from those greedy people, and give to everyone claiming a need. We should remind everyone of their obligations to the almighty state. And we should do so with force whenever we can, so they don't forget who's boss.
You are a wonderful man Mr. Jihad, and I'd like to sincerely thank you for your efforts in promoting government control and authority.
It Takes a Village.
Your Pal,
Hil
but I personally know plenty of people that say they can't afford it, but have nice boats, get new cars every few years, go out to eat at the priciest restaraunts, etc.
Ok - this enables those married couples to have one person stay home and home school. Now that those are taken care of, what about those single parents?
What about uneducated people trying to teach their children?
We never hear of the bad teachers in homeschooling because this is in a home. However, there are people who CANNOT teach or who would be bad teachers and the children are then stuck with those.
<
What about a group of parents banding together and making a stand on an issue such as this. If this happened one week, what about the next week each parent in the banded group taking bibles to their child's class and giving them out.
What about checking the libraries and demanding the Bible be included in the books in the library OR no books in the library.
I think it is time to fight back. If parents don't get the results they want, refusing to pay school tax should be considered.
The liberals complain and get whatever they want. Why can't parents unite and complain? What about religious freedom? What about personal freedom?
How can a school not allow prayer in a country that was created in part for religious freedom?
Okay enough!!!!!!!!!!!! “CAN’T AFFORD PRIVATE SCHOOL”
Bull-loney!
Item: A school can be run efficiently for about $2000 per student; ergo, 10 month tuition would be $200 per month..
Item: Many decent, college graduates, fully capable of teaching are in mind numbing jobs looking for fulfillment.
Item: Many church buildings (as an example have ‘classrooms’ that are empty six days a week; many of the pastors/owners of those buildings would welcome the income for rental of a school.
Item: Most states have lenient standards to run private non-chartered schools (as would be the type that could operate at a $2000/student rate per year).
Item: Most, er, many parents want their children O-U-T of the public schools, and can afford $200.
Put this all together and what do you have?
Affordable schooling, in a safe environment.
How is this done? First of all, open up your local yellow pages, look under elementary/secondary schools. Call them all. Ask if they are chartered, there are about 2500 non-charted schools in the US, most are Christian. Beware if they are chartered, for they must jump through the same gubmint hoops as most of the public skools, proficiency/outcomes testing etc). You’ll see what the tuition is.
What if you do not have a non-chartered school in your area? THEN START ONE.
Find out what the interest is in your community. Chances are that local churches will have your best potential ‘client’ base.
Incorporate (get some legal advice, I’m not giving it here). Non-profit is your choice.
Designate a board of directors. Hire some teachers (remember, as a non-chartered school, they probably do not have to be state certified, check with your legal advisor). The folks who cannot homeschool still can help. Use the parents as your volunteer base.
I send my son to a private (Christian) school for about $200 per month. There is no bus transport provided through the public section because it is non-chartered. Sure, he only has 8 other kids in his 7th grade class, what a shame, huh? I am fortunate to live in Northeast Ohio and I have a half dozen of these schools to choose from within driving distance. We are working on getting the High School started.
Remember, if you love your children, they should only go to a public skool over your dead body. Anyone who can afford the computer and electricity to read this post can afford to get their kids out of the government concentration camps for the advancement of socialism. PERIOD. Quit whining and get off yer butts.
(This message is being forwarded as a public service) =)
#147 this bumps for ewe
I've had thoughts of teaching math at one of these schools - still thinking about it.
What about uneducated people trying to teach their children?
Aren't you describing many of todays public school teachers?
You don't seem to understand that it does not take an educated person to teach a child it takes a dedicated person to teach a child. I will stack an uneducated but dedicated parent up against the most educated but non-dedicated teacher any day.
How do you think people learned for most of history? I'll take those that conquered the wilderness of North America over those that have conquered the remote control any day.
What do you suppose would have happened if the gift had been "Tom Sawyer"?
Seems to me this is a violation of the child's 1st Amendment rights.
Re: #147
Right on.
Such insight. Such marvelous thought processes. Yes, we shall all enforce kindness. We shall all see to it that we keep our nose firmly stuck in the business of others. That was a good 'un!
This is an interesting idea. The laws probably vary by state as they do for home schooling. I tried to find a comprehensive link for state laws regarding non-charter schools, but didn't turn up anything.
The Home School Legal Defense Association details laws related to home schooling for each state, some of which appear to also mention private schools. They also list state and local home school organizations .
Regards,
MA
I am not disagreeing. They may well not be able to afford it. Maybe they have too many kids to send them all to private school. As far as I know, a year of tuition costs about $5,000, less for a parochial school. An extra $100 per week would cover that. I wonder if they could cancel their cable bill. That's about 30-40 bucks right there. Only $70 to go. How about cutting the kids hair yourselves? That's another $12 per haircut. How about getting the kids to work on weekends, if they are old enough, mowing lawns, pulling weeds, and using that money for school? How about not eating out? How about renting fewer movies? How about not wearing name brand sneakers? Etc, etc etc.
Indeed!
I say, how about we just get our government down to its Constitutional role and abolish the federal income tax.
I agree with the rest of what you stated.
There are so many ways to cut corners financially, that if a family homeschools one, I can't understand how they would be unable to homeschool two.
At the time me and my brother were attending school, my parents did cut many corners. We gave up alot, just so that one of us could be home-schooled. I was unable to get this, and I wanted it badly.
You are not only looking at a sacrifice financially, but a sacrifice of time. many times my brother was home-schooled at my parents jobs.
Remember, if you love your children, they should only go to a public skool over your dead body. Anyone who can afford the computer and electricity to read this post can afford to get their kids out of the government concentration camps for the advancement of socialism. PERIOD. Quit whining and get off yer butts.
BRAVO!
Thanks! If my daughter is not homeschooled she will definitely be schooled in a private Christian school. I'd like her to form friendships with others like herself. I'd rather not soil her mind and soul with the depravity that dominates public schools. Eventually she will have to mingle with this but when she does she will have on her "armour" and be properly prepared for it. Yup, the Bible and correct secular beliefs will be indotrinate and drilled in her head by ME.
Go for it! They are good people who need the help.
As much as I appreciate the desperation of many Freepers to get their kids out of these skools, I am bewildered that they do not take the initiative to do something about it. I understand not everyone is able to homeschool but there are still other alternatives.
We seem to have lost the pioneering spirit, which is exactly what must be renewed as America again breaks the shackles of tyranny. The moment must be seized before they legislate more gauntlets before us.
As a dear friend of mine puts it: "We must lay down on top of the barbed wire so our children may go forth beyond us".
>>>Yup, the Bible and correct secular beliefs will be indotrinate and drilled in her head by ME<<<
That's right, although I'm struggling to figure what secular beliefs are correct [ =) ]
I admonish those good (sic) Christian parents who insist on sending their seed to these synagogues of satan, saying that thier kids should "witness".
First of all, they cannot effectively 'witness' as evidenced by the subject of this thread (I do not consider whispering the name of our Lord behind the playground backstop as fit service to the King of Kings). How can we teach them Rom 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ" when shame is exactly what is brought upon these young ones?
Second, it is difficult for most adults to proclaim the good news; how can they expect more of those they send into battle without armor?
My post was also intended for those who do not (yet?) believe; as they can start their own schools if they so desire.
I hear you and also sent you an e-mail for some advice on these issues.
Best Regards,
Nancy
I believe most parent(s) are oblivious to what is going on out there. They're too busy trying to have twin Ford Exploders or if in the higher income bracket, twin Beamers basking in the driveway after work hours while during work hours this mythical "village" raises their kids. Any criticism of this and they go ballastic (completely emotional driven).
God help us!
I TOTALLY believe in the separation of Church and State. I also happen to believe TOTALLY in the separation of STATE from Education. If we are going to have public education (if we want to actually call being unable to read education to begin with), we need to not have the STATE dictating or enforcing ANY religion... PERIOD... pro or con. Jewish or Catholic, Protestant or Athiest.
The ten commandments should be posted... NOT because they are religious dogma... but perhaps because they are right. The problem comes with explaining what they mean to each group. One group beleives divorce may be necessary... another beleives that looking at a Sears Catalogue is adultery. I think parents should do the moral instruction of their own kids... NOT the state.
In the end, the parents and the kids with the inferior values would just die off, or fail economically and be unable to reproduce after their own kind... the superior beleif system would eventually bury the competition.... but hey, would that not be a monopoly.
Public Education to me seems to be an idea whose idea has passed. With distance learning programs coming online daily, for kids, and accredited, why pay these idiots to warp our kids.... I say, lets just have one set of adults to warp each kid, not two parents, six teachers, two gym instructors, one principal, one school counselor and a swimming coach.
Kids would do better with ten commandments they did not fully understand than fifteen adults, all of which have competing agendas for their charges.
What about the parents that cannot afford private schools and can't do home schooling. Home schooling is great for those that are equipped to do it well. However, home schooling can also be disastrous if parents are not able to do an effective job of teaching.
Parents who cannot teach their children should not be getting pregnant, delivering children, going back to work to purchase new SUV's and then complaining about it when the State screws their little babies up. Since they can work, they can read. If they can read, they can read up on how to teach. If they are too lazy or not skilled enough, smart enough or too busy to learn basic, "say what you are going to say, say it, and review what you just said." perhaps they should not be having children to begin with. Any person who is too busy, ignorant, or ill to learn how to teach their own kids, and values their job or income, probably would be better off to sacrifice the SUV and hire a tutor together with a few other adults from the local church.
With rare exceptions... sending kids to a public school is a choice of "convenience" that basically amounts to 12-16 years of public paid, baby sitting... Any body smart enough to have and keep a job, is probably capable of giving up the house or suv, moving into an apartment and doing what it takes to see that the kids can read, write, add, subtract and learn a skill or two...
Is there a word for God phobis (like homophobia... God-phobia???). I think whatever the word is has to be used and used a lot. The liberals win people over by repeating things over and over while we sit back and stew over it.
Not a bad idea. Maybe some of the more creative freepers can give some suggstions.
On another front, it seems many of you believe I am advocating the government be involved in schooling. I am quite sorry I gave that impression as I am very against this. My only point was this religio-phobia appears out of control, yet is shwredly being manipulated by godless and faithless liberals. With the libs and their valueless cohorts, the judges and lawyers, they take a little at a time until, before we know it, the unbelieveable happens. Mark my words, in the near future just carrying a religious book in the public, particularly the Bible, will be grounds for fines and/or imprisonment. Sounds ludicrous but..............
Flame away!!
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