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Elementary Schoolteacher Seizes Bibles Given as Gifts

Government News
Source: Houston Chronicle
Published: April 13, 2001, 11:16PM Author: Associated Press
Posted on 04/17/2001 07:14:58 PDT by OWK

Elementary schoolteacher seizes Bibles given as gifts

AZLE -- The superintendent of a suburban Fort Worth school district said a third-grade teacher confiscated Bibles that were presented as gifts by a student during an Easter party because they weren't approved for distribution.

In a statement Friday, Superintendent Edd Bigbee of the Azle school district said Bibles and other materials distributed in a classroom must first be approved by either the principal or the superintendent.

The incident occurred Thursday at Azle's Eagle HeightsElementary, when a girl in the class began handing out Bibles. Before the children even had the Bibles unwrapped, the teacher asked for them back.

The unidentified parents of the pupil said they didn't see a problem with students giving classmates Bibles.

Parent Dorothy Dethample said she was curious to know why the Bibles were confiscated while other items, mostly food, were not.

"They didn't understand why and neither did I," Dethample said.

Azle is 15 miles northwest of Fort Worth


Yet another reason to get government out of the school business.

1 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:14:58 PDT by OWK
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To: OWK

The chances of that happening are nil. The best thing is to get good kids out of bad public schools.

2 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:18:04 PDT by AppyPappy
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To: OWK

Can you say Law Suit?...I thought you could!

One of these days these idiot teachers and school administrators will learn...that what students say and do and give each other is not anything they have control over, unless it breaks a law...not their opinion!

3 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:19:42 PDT by borisbob69
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To: AppyPappy

The chances of that happening are nil.

And they will continue to be, so long as good people resign themselves to accepting them as inevitable.

4 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:21:41 PDT by OWK
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To: OWK

Yeah, Ed, you never know what might happen to these kids if they get their hands on bibles.

Every last one of these sanctimonious little bureaucrats needs to swing.

(Yeah, I know. My father-in-law is an assistant principle and my mother-in-law is a teacher not fifty miles from where this incident took place. I am going to have to ask them if they have confiscated any bibles recently.)

5 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:23:35 PDT by hopespringseternal
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To: OWK

Yet another reason to get government out of the school business.

I couldn't agree more, OWK, and I seldom agree with you on most matters!

The saddest fact of this story is that there is probably no policy that would prohibit this exchange between students, but the teacher has been so conditioned against religious expression, that she feared she would be in trouble if this was allowed.

6 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:23:46 PDT by Truth Addict
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To: OWK

I agree. The schools need to fear lawsuits from Christians as much as they fear lawsuits from the NAACP.

7 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:25:46 PDT by Tai_Chung
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To: borisbob69

She confiscated the Bibles right after a lesson on accepting others diverse sexual practices and before a class on reaching you inner personal spirit guide. Yeah for public school!!!

8 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:25:49 PDT by bird3three3
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To: OWK

It is so unfortunate that the original reasoning behind the forefathers separation of church and state has DEVOLVED into the fiasco and anti-religion phobia that we have today.

A good reading of the federalist papers and personal writings of the forefathers would do teachers, the ACLU, and all others some good!

9 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:26:04 PDT by technomage
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To: Truth Addict

I couldn't agree more, OWK, and I seldom agree with you on most matters!

I suspect we agree on much more than you'd think.

10 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:26:34 PDT by OWK
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To: OWK

It is so unfortunate that the original reasoning behind the forefathers separation of church and state has DEVOLVED into the fiasco and anti-religion phobia that we have today.

A good reading of the federalist papers and personal writings of the forefathers would do teachers, the ACLU, and all others some good!

11 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:26:46 PDT by technomage
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To: OWK

"...confiscated Bibles that were presented as gifts by a student during an Easter party because they weren't approved for distribution. "

Who is in charge of approving the distribution of reading materials presented as gifts? Would the Commissar in charge of this please step forward.

12 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:26:51 PDT by Movemout
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To: borisbob69

Right - I think her parents should file a lawsuit.

I would sure hate to be standing in that teacher's shoes. I don't think the Lord would look kindly on that teacher's actions.

13 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:27:34 PDT by ClancyJ
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To: Tai_Chung

The schools need to fear lawsuits from Christians as much as they fear lawsuits from the NAACP.

If government were out of the coerced education business, there'd be no need for lawsuits. Christians would be free to choose the education they want for their children. And they wouldn't be robbed to support the advancement of ideas they hold as wrong. The same would be true for those wishing a secular education for their children.

It's GOVERNMENT that creates the problems here.

14 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:29:25 PDT by OWK
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To: borisbob69

Can you say Law Suit?...I thought you could!

That's what I want to see. The colleges who trample on students' rights continually lose in court because thay are tyrants who ignore the constitution. Time for the public schools to get bitch-slapped a little.

15 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:30:09 PDT by Sans-Culotte
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To: Sans-Culotte

BUMP!

16 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:30:39 PDT by borisbob69
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To: Truth Addict

Most of these situations occur because of the stupidity and rigidity of the faculty and Administration. They have been buffaloed and browbeaten by the 1% of atheists and cower with fear in the corner. However, they seem unafraid of violating Christians rights.

Personally, maybe bibles shouldn't have been handed out during class.

However, if the teacher had a brain, she would have said something like "What a lovely thought Johnny, however, why don't we wait and do this after class." That way any of the students that would be offended by being handed a bible would not have to take one. "Now, Johnny, you make arrangements to meet after school and anyone interested in a new bible can meet you."

17 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:31:06 PDT by ODDITHER
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To: OWK

What they are worried about is a muslim, athiest, or witchcraft practicing parent being offended,

by their child receiving a bible at school. Twisted logic.

18 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:32:37 PDT by DainBramage
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To: OWK

I suspect we agree on much more than you'd think.

Well, this is a good start, isn't it?

You may actually be right about that, although we may arrive at our similar viewpoints from differing perspectives.

19 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:32:41 PDT by Truth Addict
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To: OWK

Let's see...They were celebrating EASTER in a public school, but the moron teacher saw a problem with a kid distributing Bibles to other kids. Logic alert!! Logic alert!

20 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:32:48 PDT by Bigg Red
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To: technomage

It is so unfortunate that the original reasoning behind the forefathers separation of church and state has DEVOLVED into the fiasco and anti-religion phobia that we have today. A good reading of the federalist papers and personal writings of the forefathers would do teachers, the ACLU, and all others some good!

A thorough understanding of the concept of rights and liberty, would make it clear that the very CONCEPT of public schools is a violation of rights. It is immoral to confiscate a man's property, to make him pay for the advancement of ideas he does not share or support. All education should be private. Until it is, you will continue to have every special interest group, and every secular group, and every religious group, and every sexual advocacy group, beating each other over the head with government, in an attempt to gain control over an inherently immoral coerced education system.

Get government out of the school business.

21 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:33:35 PDT by OWK
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To: Bigg Red

Let's see...They were celebrating EASTER in a public school, but the moron teacher saw a problem with a kid distributing Bibles to other kids. Logic alert!! Logic alert!

Sharp as bowling balls, aren't they?

22 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:35:22 PDT by OWK
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To: technomage

Is there a word for God phobis (like homophobia... God-phobia???). I think whatever the word is has to be used and used a lot. The liberals win people over by repeating things over and over while we sit back and stew over it.

23 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:36:00 PDT by 69ConvertibleFirebird
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To: Movemout

"...confiscated Bibles that were presented as gifts by a student during an Easter party....."

Distributing Bibles during a party to celebrate a religious holiday? I guess it depends on what the meaning of "Easter" is........

24 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:36:01 PDT by noexcuses
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To: technomage

Is there a word for God phobias (like homophobia... God-phobia???). I think whatever the word is has to be used and used a lot. The liberals win people over by repeating things over and over while we sit back and stew over it.

25 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:36:22 PDT by 69ConvertibleFirebird
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To: ClancyJ

I am not sure about a lawsuit. Money is always involved in a lawsuit even if it ends up just being lawyer fees. Let's assume the parents win and get "their point across". The school board pays the lawyer fees out of taxpayer money. The "teacher" is moved into an adminstrative post at probably a higher salary. Then we start all over again on the next issue.

The best strategy is to walk. Every Christian should remove their children from public schools. Every non-Christian that is a freedom loving individual should remove their children from public schools. When this happens then we will see change. This is the only strategy that is going to work. There will be no "legislation" that will improve the situation until we have all left and the "public schools" are no longer money making machines.

26 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:37:40 PDT by mikesmad
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird

Deophobia, maybe?

27 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:38:42 PDT by freedomcrusader
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To: Bigg Red

They were celebrating EASTER in a public school

I will bet you five dollars that they were NOT celebrating Easter. Oh, they may have had a egg hunt or had someone dressed like a bunny deliver candy (probably spiked with Ritalin), but they were not celebrating Easter.

28 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:40:04 PDT by mikesmad
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To: Movemout

Who is in charge of approving the distribution of reading materials presented as gifts? Would the Commissar in charge of this please step forward

The correct answer as far as I'm concerned is, that the parents are, in the form of the school teachers and administrators who they contracted to educate and direct their children during school hours. This arrangement unfortunatly does not exist in compulsary government run schools.

The concept is solid however. If you substitute girly mags for the bibles in question.

Regards

29 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:40:18 PDT by ThomasJefferson
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To: noexcuses

An Easter party that celebrated Death and Resurrection would not be allowed in a public school so I guess you're right, it depends on what the definition of Easter is

30 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:41:48 PDT by Movemout
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To: OWK

Yet another reason to get government out of the school business.

You are exactly right!

31 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:44:08 PDT by ashrad
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To: ODDITHER

I think your first paragraph is right on, but the rest I have some problems with.

I see no problem with students exchanging materials between themselves unless it is clearly inappropriate (pornographic or prurient). I have more of a problem with some of the "approved" curriculum that supports an athiest govt. imposed philosophy.

If my children were given materials from another student that supported an alternate religion in class, I would talk to them about it and most likely have them return it or simply get rid of it. It is not the govt. school's job to censor what students give to each other.

BTW, OWK is right in asserting that if the govt. would get out of the business of schooling and left it to the private sector, these problems would disappear, along with many other problems. If a school of my choosing elected to have guidelines about these things, I would be fine with that, but I don't want the govt. doing it.

32 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:44:09 PDT by Truth Addict
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To: AppyPappy

The best thing is to get good kids out of bad public schools.

Oh and that solves the whole problem, doesn't it?

Silly me, I can't beleive an answer so obvious to the corruption in public schools has eluded me. Thank you for your great wisdom.

33 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:46:08 PDT by ashrad
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To: OWK

Ill bet if she was giving out condoms they wouldnt have to be approved.....

34 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:46:22 PDT by RIGHTWINGERINNY
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To: OWK

Board up your local Government School.

35 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:46:37 PDT by MassExodus
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To: AppyPappy

The chances of that happening are nil.

Your contentment with failure is plainly made obvious in this statement.

36 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:47:06 PDT by ashrad
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To: OWK

And they will continue to be, so long as good people resign themselves to accepting them as inevitable.

Geez, OWK, you sound like one of those preachers standing on a hillside waiting for the new Jerusalem to descend from the Heavens.

37 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:49:22 PDT by AppyPappy
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To: OWK

What criteria is used to approve a Bible?

38 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:49:46 PDT by OneIfByLand
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To: Truth Addict

This is sad. I do believe that most schools need to understand that if a student wants to pray or sing hymns or bring Christmas or Easter presents, if it is the student initiating it, it is constitutional. When I taught in Fairfax County a few years ago, I had students bring in a Christmas tree and ornaments and because they brought them in instead of me it was acceptable to the Principal. It was a great class.

39 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:50:34 PDT by Fletchergirl
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To: Movemout

All... Have any of you read the book..."And nothing but the truth." By Jay Sekulow of the ACLJ... He is the christian version of Mark Levin.....The horror stories in there would make your hair stand on end...Like the 6 yoa girl who was disciplined for typing "Jesus" on her computer during a typing class....

40 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:50:35 PDT by RIGHTWINGERINNY
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To: ashrad

I'm sure you would like to flap your arms and fly to the Bahamas but you would be better served to buy a plane ticket. I realize that is settling for failure but your arms will eventually wear out.

41 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:51:53 PDT by AppyPappy
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To: Bigg Red

...but the moron teacher saw a problem with a kid distributing Bibles to other kids.

My friends mom is a public school teacher, and I hear her stories alot.She would have done the same in this situation I bet, and she is a Christian.

Public school teachers don't have a choice. Every thing they do must be thought out very meticulously. Everyhting they do can be used by students to get them fired. She has many minority students who try every chance they get to show that she is prejudice, so they can get an easy ride through the class.

42 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:53:01 PDT by ashrad
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To: AppyPappy

The best thing is to get good kids out of bad public schools.

And leave the 'bad' kids in the public schools, to be turned into good little socialist Dim voters? Your solution scares me.

MA

43 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:54:11 PDT by MadameAxe
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To: OWK

But I guess if she had handed out a book titled "How to Be Happy With Your Gay Parents" it would have been ok.

44 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:54:14 PDT by ratdog
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To: OWK

is this Berlin 1932?

45 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:55:17 PDT by Big Guy and Rusty 99
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To: AppyPappy

What?

I am not even intersted in going to the Bahamas.

In any case I can't fly with my arms...it would prove to be failure to do so.

46 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:55:42 PDT by ashrad
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To: MadameAxe

As opposed to what? Leaving the good kids in to get killed or indoctrinated? Pass. I'm tired of the cookie cutter solution. If enough kids pull out, the public schools will have to change.

47 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:56:01 PDT by AppyPappy
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To: AppyPappy

I'm sure you would like to flap your arms and fly to the Bahamas but you would be better served to buy a plane ticket. I realize that is settling for failure but your arms will eventually wear out.

You're comparing the laws of physics to the laws of public policy. Apples to oranges!

48 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:56:07 PDT by freedomcrusader
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To: AppyPappy

The best thing is to get good kids out of bad public schools.

Get all kids out of bad schools. As a mom I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to children: they are all good. Public schools make them bad.

49 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:56:29 PDT by grellis
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To: Fletchergirl

This is really getting sad....and in Texas no less. I loved it when my daughter went to Catholic school....the art projects she came home with were beautiful. Government schools stangle free speech.

50 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:56:34 PDT by Lucyredboots
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To: OneIfByLand

Liberal, leftist, social criteria.

51 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:56:52 PDT by ratdog
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To: AppyPappy

If enough kids pull out...

Pull out and go where?

52 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:57:16 PDT by ashrad
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To: ashrad

The chances of the government getting out of the schools is about the same as your chances to flap your arms and fly. I wish it would happen but I need to deal with reality.

53 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:57:23 PDT by AppyPappy
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To: ashrad

Private school or homeschool

54 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:58:04 PDT by AppyPappy
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To: OWK

My standard six word reply still stands:

...nor prohibiting the free excercise thereof...

Did this happen before or after they distributed the WICCAN Handbook in social studies class?

55 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:58:28 PDT by His_law_is_liberty
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To: RIGHTWINGERINNY

I'm disgusted enough already. I don't need further evidence produced to convince me that government run schools are a total failure.

56 Posted on 04/17/2001 07:59:54 PDT by Movemout
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To: mikesmad

We are STILL paying the taxes to support them.

57 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:01:08 PDT by ratdog
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To: Lucyredboots

Welcome Lucyredboots! You are new! Free Republic is a great place to post your opinions!

58 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:01:17 PDT by Fletchergirl
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To: AppyPappy

So I am supposed to have faith in the public school system when I can't have FAITH in the public school system???

Did the teachers confiscate the 'sugared' products that might have an effect on the 'hyperactive' kids? Or, the valentines that might be construed as more than just friendship?

59 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:01:58 PDT by d14truth
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To: AppyPappy

The chances of the government getting out of the schools is about the same as your chances to flap your arms and fly.

Well, I won't allow myself that kind of thinking. As long as there is failure I will always strive to see accomplishment.

I am going to make a wild guess here, but you are obviously, to me, someone above the age of 40. Only reason I state this, and don't take it offensively, because I find most in that age range find that contentment with failure is thier only option and that to fight for anything more would just be a waste of time.

I hope that I never fall into this mold.

60 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:02:31 PDT by ashrad
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To: OWK

Yeah, but I'll bet the NAMBLA literature was okayed!

61 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:02:31 PDT by Redleg Duke
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To: OWK

Then she put on her hat and took off on her broom.

62 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:03:38 PDT by Lady GOP
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To: AppyPappy

If enough kids pull out, the public schools will have to change.

What makes you think that the educrats will want to change the schools, other than to throw more of our tax dollars down the rathole, no matter how bad they get? Their pet doctrines and social engineering schemes are being advanced there. Yes, leaving is good, but shutting them down would be better.

You won't be finding my kid in a public school.

MA

63 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:03:52 PDT by MadameAxe
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To: OWK

Fisting allowed, Bibles not.

64 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:04:25 PDT by lavaroise
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To: lavaroise

Precisely.

Barf.

65 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:05:11 PDT by ratdog
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To: AppyPappy

And so, my wife and I would turn to each other and say, "Reason #4940 why we homeschool."

You may (or may not) have heard that something similar happened to us when we had our daughter in public shool. They had a sharing day every week, where kids could bring books, toys, whatever, and share. They could bring anything they wanted, anything.

Well, anything except a Bible, even a cartoon Bible, as my daughter found to her embarrassment.

Dan

66 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:05:54 PDT by BibChr
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird, freedomcrusader

"Is there a word for God phobias?"........"Deophobia?"

Maybe 'theophobia'; presumably a Deist could be a theophobe.

67 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:05:58 PDT by headsonpikes
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To: OWK

"Elementary schoolteacher seizes Bibles given as gifts."

Elementary schoolteacher censures student's free expression by confiscating 'politically incorrect' student gifts of all-time #1 bestseller.

68 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:06:07 PDT by d14truth
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To: Bigg Red

Let's see...They were celebrating EASTER in a public school

Yes, but I believe the easter that is celebrated nowadays...on of easter bunnies, chocolates, jelly beans, etc. I sure the classroom was decorated with bunnies, candy, pastels. As of the Christmas holidays, the secular has taken precedence.

69 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:06:08 PDT by Stand Watch Listen
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To: Lucyredboots

Government schools stangle free speech.

This deserves repeating, although I think you meant "strangle"!!

70 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:06:40 PDT by Truth Addict
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To: AppyPappy

Private school or homeschool

How?

Most, if not all, kids are in public schools because they come from a family that cannot afford better education. Public schools are a monopoly.

My parents, for example, could only afford for one of us to be homeschooled. I had to take the bullet and go to public schools. My parents would've had both of us in home-schooling had it been affordable, but with the government legally stealing 47% (or is it now 48%) of our income it makes it impossible for average mid-income house-hold to provide alternate education.

Thus, the vicious little trap is made.

71 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:06:45 PDT by ashrad
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To: OWK

It's GOVERNMENT that creates the problems here.

With no help from atheistic ideologues crawling out of the woodwork?

Also in the news: Flash! A boss in Chicago demanded that his employees refrain from wearing religious jewelry or have religious pictures in their cubicles. Hence, all of capitalism is evil and wicked and corrupting and it must be abolished.

72 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:06:48 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: ashrad

After 40 years, I learned that fighting reality is a loser. The best thing to do is work to change the situation rather than wishing it wasn't so.

When you are 42 and the schools are exactly the same as they were when you were 20, maybe you will quit wishing and start working.

73 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:07:13 PDT by AppyPappy
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To: ratdog

When you hit a critical mass (and I don't know what it is) where more voters/taxpayers children are going to private schools or are being homeschooled than attend public school then you will see a tax revolt to have a drastic reduction/elimination of property tax.

74 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:08:02 PDT by mikesmad
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To: MadameAxe

You won't be finding my kid in a public school.

And I hope that when I start my own family I will be able to afford for proper education, and not have to resort to the public education.

I do beleive if I couldn't afford it, that I would still refuse to send my kids to public schools.

75 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:10:13 PDT by ashrad
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To: MadameAxe

They won't be shut down. As a matter of fact, they are expanding as we speak. But if enough parents pull out, the parents will realize they are paying for a loser and insist on more autonomy for their education dollar. When you are robbing Peter to pay Paul, you have Paul's undying support.Parent's whose kids are not in public school are less likely to mindlessly clamor for more money for the public schools. It's a start.

76 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:10:27 PDT by AppyPappy
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To: technomage

A good reading of the federalist papers and personal writings of the forefathers would do teachers, the ACLU, and all others some good!

Maybe if they just read the constitution! :-)

77 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:11:13 PDT by Guerito
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To: AppyPappy

When you are 42 and the schools are exactly the same as they were when you were 20, maybe you will quit wishing and start working.

First off, I am in no way "wishing". This issue, as well as others(Carnivore), are issues that I work very hard in seeing change. I deliver posters and fliers in many cases about these things. Many fliers that I deliver come off of FR. I do this mainly door to door, and speak person to person.

When I am 42, if all goes well with my plans, I will be a politician fighting for that change.

You see, I am in no way wishing.

78 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:13:09 PDT by ashrad
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To: OWK

Every teacher in the country should be asked if they believe in God. If they respond in the affirmative, the they should be fired because they shouldn't be allowed to bring those kinds of thoughts into the classroom. Separation of church and state you know.

Then the same question should be asked of all elected amd appointed officials in all levels of government. Maybe we can get rid of enough of these idiots to where we can start over.

79 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:13:44 PDT by gunshy
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To: Cultural Jihad

Hmmm. OWK must have taken a work break...

80 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:14:20 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird

God-phobia???).

Theophobic

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom. -Proverb

Their problem is not a fear of God, but a lack of fear.

81 Posted on 04/17/2001 08:14:36 PDT by Guerito
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To: AppyPappy


"The best thing is to get good kids out of bad public schools.