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"A third man wanted in the Oklahoma City bombing has been identified as Steven Colbern, a fugitive from a previous firearms charge.
Colbern, aged 35 or 36, is described as 6-foot-1 and 195 pounds with green eyes, which roughly matches the description of John Doe II.
Law enforcement sources said Thursday night that Colbern was identified through his brown pickup. It was captured, by chance on video taken from the state trooper's car that stopped Timothy McVeigh for speeding only 80 minutes after the blast.
"That trooper had a hell of a day," a federal investigator said.
An automatic camera in the car of Trooper Charles Hanger was taping the arrest of McVeigh. In the background was the image of the pickup, which also pulled over while McVeigh was being questioned.
Sophisticated enhancement techniques were used to improve the video until investigators could read the license plate number.
The truck, registered to Colbern, contained traces of ammonium nitrate, believed to be the main explosive ingredient used in the bombing.
Colbern's age is uncertain. His address is unknown, but he shared a mail drop with McVeigh in Kingman, Ariz., sources said. The truck was found parked outside an abandoned mobile home in Kingman.
Colbern already was wanted on a federal firearms charge, officials said. He was arrested last summer in San Bernadino, Calif., for carrying a gun with a silencer. He was allowed to post bail but skipped."
Great work Dan Day. To all,please see important work done in Kingman by Phoenix Gazette.
McVeigh's Neighbors in Arizonia:Gary Allen Land and Robert Jacks
There ain't no Arizonia: it's Arizona you idiot!
So, whatever happened to Colburn? Surely there is/was a post-arrest/post-release story that follows this one.
An earlier article posted showed that Robert Jacks/Jacques was also arrested. Whatever happened with that?
I'm looking for facts or news stories, conjecture is irrelevant.
bump
good find
So, whatever happened to Colburn? Surely there is/was a post-arrest/post-release story that follows this one.
An earlier article posted showed that Robert Jacks/Jacques was also arrested. Whatever happened with that?
I'm looking for facts or news stories, conjecture is irrelevant
Please join the search. You are absolutely correct there should be follow up stories. Where is the video from the state trooper's camera?
Thanks for the photo of Gary Allen Land. I understand Robert Jacks is the one wearing the blue cap.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ NewsBank, inc. - The Arizona Republic - 1995 - Article with Citation ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Source: THE PHOENIX GAZETTE Headline: 2 ARRESTED IN BOMBING ONE MAN MIGHT BE 'JOHN DOE 2' Date: May 2, 1995 Section: Front Edition: Midday Page: A1 Word Count: 1082 Author: Compiled by THE PHOENIX GAZETTE; Includes information from GAZETTE reporter Dennis Wagner and The Associated Press.
Index Terms: OKLAHOMA EXPLOSION INVESTIGATE ARREST KINGMAN
Text:" Two men being sought as witnesses in the Oklahoma City bombing were taken into custody today in southwestern Missouri after their car was spotted in a motel parking lot, authorities said. Gary Allen Land and Robert Jacks were arrested without incident on material witness warrants issued in connection with the bombing, FBI spokesman Dan Vogel said in Oklahoma City. He refused to give further details. FBI agents secured the area around a motel on the east end of Carthage, Mo., before they entered a guest room and took the men into custody, Highway Patrol Sgt. Archie Dunn said in Carthage. The arrests occurred after a white Thunderbird with an Arizona license plate was spotted by a Missouri trooper in the motel's parking lot. A nationwide alert had been issued for the two men. Land and Jacks reportedly checked briefly into a motel in Perry, Okla., the day after the April 19 bombing. Perry is where bombing suspect Timothy McVeigh was arrested. Although authorities have said the two men were witnesses, a federal source, discussing an all-points bulletin that had been issued for Land, said flatly, ''This is 'John Doe No. 2.' '' ..."
"All roads keep leading back to Kingman. "
I still have my "I survived the FBI invasion of Kingman, Arizona" T-shirt that the Kingman PD made up to express their displeasure at the FBI's unprofessional conduct in their jurisdiction.
Bold off.
An earlier article posted showed that Robert Jacks/Jacques was also arrested. Whatever happened with that?
I'm looking for facts or news stories, conjecture is irrelevant.
McVeigh was looking for isolated retreat
By Karen Testa
Associated Press Writer
CASSVILLE, Mo. -- A real estate broker who told the FBI the Oklahoma City bombing suspects and another man came to
him looking for isolated land in the Ozarks says he thinks investigators leaked the story for publicity.
Federal authorities are searching for the man -- who identified himself as Robert Jacques -- to help reconstruct the activities of
Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols leading up to the April 19, 1995, bombing.
CNN released a sketch Sunday of a man believed to be Jacques. On Monday, caravans of reporters and television crews
descended on this town of 2,400 in southwest Missouri to talk to the brokers.
''We kind of got the conclusion it was leaked on purpose so maybe we would go ahead and do this and get some more
coverage to find this guy,'' broker Joe Lee Davidson said Monday.
Dan Vogel, a spokesman for the FBI in Oklahoma City, refused comment on the leak.
A law enforcement official in Washington, D.C., speaking on condition of anonymity, told The Associated Press on Monday
that Jacques is neither a target nor a subject of bombing investigators even though authorities have an official sketch of him.
Real estate broker Bill Maloney, a 26-year veteran of the Air Force, said he and Davidson showed the three men photographs
and topographical maps of several rocky, hilly, isolated lots of land in southwest Missouri on Nov. 2, 1994.
''You probably need a four-wheel drive to get to most of these,''' Davidson said he told Jacques. ''He said, 'We got one of
them.'
''I laughed and said, 'Well, we got one over here I think you'd probably need a helicopter to get to.' He said, 'We could
probably even handle that.'''
Jacques did most of the talking. None of the three men ever contacted the brokers again, Maloney said.
McVeigh attorney Stephen Jones told CNN his client wasn't in Missouri when Maloney says he met with the three men. He did
not say where McVeigh was at that time.
Several months earlier, Maloney said a man who identified himself as Tim McVeigh had called about the 40 acres of land
advertised as ''at the end of a road, at the bottom of a hollow.''
Maloney called the FBI in May 1995 after he and Davidson saw federal authorities had arrested a man named Robert Jacks in
Carthage, Mo. The Jacques they had met, who pronounced his name ''jacks,'' had no resemblance to the one arrested, both
men said.
''Originally I didn't call (the FBI) because I figured they'd pick up Jacques right away because they already had Mr. McVeigh,
and then Nichols turned himself in,'' Maloney said.
Jacques was between 28 and 35, of muscular build, 5-8 to 5-11, with dark cropped hair, Maloney and Davidson said. The
men differ slightly on the description of his facial features, especially the nose. Maloney, who says he never got to look him in
the eyes, said Jacques looked part American Indian.
McVeigh's trial for the bombing that killed 168 people and injured more than 500 is set to begin March 31 in Denver. Nichols
will be tried later.
''The FBI has thoroughly investigated all leads and I am confident in the investigation,'' said Joseph Hartzler, the lead federal
prosecutor. He declined to comment further.
Nichols' ex-wife, Lana Padilla, has told newspapers that he had talked about looking for property in Missouri or Arkansas for
a blueberry farm.
''He (Nichols) mentioned Branson,'' Padilla told The Kansas City Star for Tuesday editions. ''Later he said it was growing
rapidly there and he wasn't sure if that was the right spot. Then he mentioned Arkansas.''
Padilla said she watched the CNN report with her 14-year-old son, Josh, who spent a week with Nichols in Herington, Kan.,
just before the bombing.
''I asked Josh to look at that sketch (of Jacques) and asked him if he'd ever seen that man,'' Padilla said. ''He said he didn't
recognize him.''
The Star also reported Tuesday that documents seized at Nichols' house after the bombing showed he was interested in
Arkansas real estate. In a notebook, Nichols had written the phone numbers of two Arkansas couples next to information
about farms.
Martin Young of Rogers, Ark., which is about 40 miles southwest of Cassville, was surprised to learn his name and number
were in Nichols' notes. He told The Star he sold his 10-acre blueberry farm in May 1995. He said he got many calls about the
farm but didn't know whether Nichols was among the callers.
The other farmer was Gordon Watkins, who lives three miles from Jasper, Ark., about 60 miles south of Branson. Susan
Watkins said Monday that FBI agents had now interviewed her husband about Nichols.
Gordon Watkins said he'd never offered the farm for sale but had sold blueberry-farming equipment.
***** *****
McVeigh delay has a connection to
the Ozarks [MSNBC story with photo of *real* Robert Jacques]
The FBI cleared Robert Jacques after checking him
out.
***Maloney, who says he never got to look him in
the eyes, said Jacques looked part American Indian.***
Let's try to fix this again.
bump
Thanks, Michael. I accidentally hit the *post* button while still editing the copy.
See also the TIME Magazine *NATION/Special Investigation* report
WHO IS ROBERT JACQUES?-
THE FBI WANTS TO TALK TO A MISSING ASSOCIATE OF MCVEIGH'S
BY James Polk and Susan Candiotti
-archy-/-
Has anyone been able to identify the make and model of the white car in the Camp Gruber photo?
From Phoenix Gazette:
"Edna Mendez, who answered the phone at Jacks' home in the Oklahoma City suburb of Moore, said that he works for the Loomis armored car service. He made a delivery in downtown Oklahoma City minutes before the bombing, she said. She said that Jacks also voluntarily contacted the FBI to report seeing a ''Ryder truck.''
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Font test
1995 - Article with Citation ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Source: THE PHOENIX GAZETTE Headline: FBI TARGETS MOTEL, TRAILER IN KINGMAN Date: May 2, 1995 Section: Front Edition: Final Page: A1 Word Count: 753 Author: By Dennis Wagner
THE PHOENIX GAZETTE; Includes information from The Associated Press. Dateline: KINGMAN Index Terms: OKLAHOMA EXPLOSION DISASTER INVESTIGATE KINGMAN
Text: FBI agents on Monday repeatedly questioned the owner of a motel in Kingman about former tenants Gary Allen Land and Robert Jacks, seized records and sealed off three rooms used by the men. Bill Terranova, owner of the El Trovatore Motel said agents questioned him and his wife, June, four times about the two, who were arrested early today in connection with the Oklahoma City bombing. They stayed at the motel from Nov. 3 until April 4.
The Terranovas said they were able to identify photographs of Land, but could not match an FBI snapshot with Jacks. Land and Jacks were the subject of a nationwide search after authorities released information about the white Thunderbird with Arizona license plates they were driving. The two were arrested in Carthage, Mo. El Trovatore is a block away from the Imperial and Hilltop hotels, where bombing suspect Timothy McVeigh stayed shortly before the April 19 explosion that killed at least 139 people.
Jacks told Terranova and his wife that he was Land's uncle. The two men also claimed they were going to Oklahoma when they departed, according to the couple.
From Phoenix Gazette:
"Edna Mendez, who answered the phone at Jacks' home in the Oklahoma City suburb of Moore, said that he works for the
Loomis armored car service. He made a delivery in downtown Oklahoma City minutes before the bombing, she said. She said that
Jacks also voluntarily contacted the FBI to report seeing a ''Ryder truck.''
***** *****
Loomis Fargo & CO
1610 Northeast 4th Street,
Oklahoma City, OK 73117
(405) 232-9208
***** *****
With an address of 200 NW 5th Street, the [Murrah] building's property bordered NW 5th Street to the North, NW 4th St. to the South, N.
Robinson Ave. to the East, and N. Harvey to the West....*
{Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building History]
Hmmmm. Easy drive to work....
archy-/-
Great link Archy. I really appreciate it. The Jaques/Jacks interview is surely devoid of any substance, eh? Geez, why can't the interviewer ask tougher questions? Surely because he doesn't know any of the issues.
For the record, while I am not convinced on the current "official story" on the bombing, I am not in line with the "whatreallyhappened/MichaelRivero" theory on this bombing. I just mention that for the record, but I hope that unlike what I see on other threads about Rivero skeptics, no one accuses me of being on the "government payroll." And I don't plan on calling those who are committed to the Rivero story "Konspiracy Kooks" either. Maybe we can keep a thread clean of that stuff?
I think it's plausible to consider that Jacques/Jacks was a co-conspirator or at least a source of funds for the McVeigh/Nichols plan. What is the FBI's tale on where the funds came for this operation? I'm not sure that it's plausible that Jacques/Jakes was JD#2. And we still have the Mahon, Strassmeier, and Kingman Guys to deal with.
The Colburn/Colbern stuff seems awfully interesting. If his truck was REALLY tooling down the road near McVeigh, and pulled over before leaving (when it became apparent the stop was not a routine ticket), then this needs to be chased down by some good journalists.
The article you linked and the video you linked seem really different. I mean, the interviewee looks nothing like the man the brokers described. Is the TV interviewee the SAME Jacques/Jackes that was arrested from the motel or someone completely different?
Of course, Stephen Jones says McVeigh wasn't there. And his comments are relied on for JDII speculation, so the conflicting stories are frustrating.
For the record, while I am not convinced on the current "official story" on the bombing, I am not in line with the
"whatreallyhappened/MichaelRivero" theory on this bombing. I just mention that for the record, but I hope that unlike what I see
on other threads about Rivero skeptics, no one accuses me of being on the "government payroll." And I don't plan on calling those
who are committed to the Rivero story "Konspiracy Kooks" either. Maybe we can keep a thread clean of that stuff?
Sounds reasonable to me. I've got my own working hypotheses regarding some of the events and individuals connected with the OKC blast, but suspect that the Mike Rivero/Whatreallyhappened.com version comes a lot closer than the highly redacted *official party version* of those events.
I think the seismic info is probably the most misleading, with the multiple events recorded more likely to be the effect of the blast's shock wave reflecting back to the ground from clouds overhead [no, I don't know weather conditions that day] or from other buildings, a condition seismologists would not be familiar with from either normal geophysical events or blasts of seismic explosives far less that 1000-4500 pounds in size. Differences of opinion from experts in that field are welcome, but even real experts in geology have differing views on such matters as continental drift, so I'll just not overly concern myself with possible stray info from that field contradicting that which can be proven or disproven by experiment.
As usual, the human element is the real joker. And there are sufficient numbers of interesting folks involved that had the OKC event been a real *terrorist action* I'd have expected another simultaneous attack elsewhere for maximem publicity and shock effect, if it had been the real thing. I wonder if we may see that on Monday when McVeigh is poisoned to death....
And, of course, in all this the REAL terrorist action more than a year previously in Wyoming has been overlooked....
-archy-/-
The Time article is great stuff. So the guy in the NBC interview must be irrelevant, OR someone associated with them whose name JD2 decided to use for the purposes of buying a piece of land.
Given the decriptions of "hawaiian or amer. indian, and muscular" from the waitress in the Time story, this is very likely to be the JD2 seen by the Ryder folks.
So, who is it? Strassmeir isn't "hawaiian" looking, what about Mahon? What about Brescia?
Where I am on this thing:
I'm convinced it was ONE Ryder Truck bomb, parked in the "drive thru / drop off" very near the building and support beams. I am convinced that sounds, shock waves, etc can be reasonably constituted to dilute the strength of witness comments and the seismographs.
I'm further convinced that this was not "a sting operation gone bad," but I'm willing to still consider input about Strassmeir and Millar being informants. I believe that sometimes, informants do so for money and to shelter themselves from prosectution -- yet still commit crimes and harbor those who do -- and use their "informant" power to narc out those about whom they have personal grudges. In other words, just because Millar was occasionally an informant for cash doesn't mean he was an "asset" like an installed infiltrator would be.
I'm convinced that more than Fortier/Nichols/McVeigh knew about the bombing and helped plan, pay for, and conceive it.
I'm mostly convinced that McVeigh was the main guy on the day of the bombinb. since lots of racist nuts don't have the guts to go through with terrorism.
I have other thoughts, but no more time. Later.
bump
"He tells the cops and Spivey McVeigh is a suspect. When the cops interview him and say, "Where can we find this McVeigh," he says, "Oh, Fort Riley. New York." And yet he's corresponding with him at least four times a year in Kingman, Arizona, and knows it and knows it so well that he and Karen can put McVeigh in touch with Steve Colbern."
Quote from Nichols trial transcripts closing remarks by defense referring to earlier testimony. Only connection I have thus far is the name Steve Colbern...still looking.Karen is Karen Anderson.
"Colbern was arrested in May of 1995, and released on April 23, 1997, after serving time in Lompac Federal Prison on illegal weapons charges.(666)"
Link for reference for quote in reply #36
Article with information on Steven Colbern
The latest person drawn into the FBI's dragnet is Steven Garrett Colbern, 35, who was picked up Friday on an unrelated weapons charge in Oatman, Arizona. Colbern, a biochemist, lived in Oatman, about 20 miles from Kingman, where McVeigh once resided. There are a number of coincidences involving Colbern: he owns a brown pickup truck similar to one a witness allegedly saw alongside McVeigh's car in Perry, Oklahoma, the day of the bombing; he used the same Kingman mail drop as McVeigh; and agents found a letter addressed to ''S.C.'' among McVeigh's effects. One federal investigator, however, cautioned that Colbern was being sought as a possible witness, not as a suspect. Said another source: "The connection of any of this to the bombing is nebulous at best."
From the Time reference in reply#38.
Does anyone see an inconsistency with the Time article, (picked up on unrelated charges) and the Houston Chronicle article(third suspect identified in Oklahoma bombing)?
Some have thought that Brescia, who was engaged to one of the daughters of William Millar at Elohim City, might have been JD#2
His long-term interest in Eastern Nazi circles and hookup with Strassmeir and Millar would be consistant with either an undercover Agent or informant trying to work his way into higher levels of a command structure that's not particularly structured just for the purpose of making it hard to infiltrate.
But there's still Daniel Spiegelman [who also used the name *William Taylor*] and Gary Hunt to consider, and Hunt also had an unidentified partner whose photo has not been widely circulated. And the circumstances that got Spiegelman's convistion reversed were interesting to say the least, as well as his extradition from Europe over the theft of historical library books, though he's also believed to have been a weapons supplier for some of the others- and, with his Eurpoean connections, perhaps Strassmeir wasn't the only one with links to the German BND intelligence service.
More on Brescia and a postage-stamp sized pic from his Philadelphia days here:
THE ARYAN REPUBLICAN ARMY
The terrorist organization which staged the bank robberies in
order to finance its illegal activities has been described as a
neo-Nazi group which calls itself the Aryan Republican Army.
McVeigh is said to have been connected with this organization.
The ARA was described in an earlier article by Evans-Pritchard as
"the secret military arm of the American neo-Nazi movement. It
is committed to the overthrow of the US government, the
extermination of America's Jews, and the establishment of an
'Aryan Republic' on the North American continent."
The British journalist described the ARA as modeled after the
Provisional IRA , or "Provos", as they are known in the U.K.,
which is organized into small, underground cells that are
difficult to infiltrate.
The "intellectual" leader of the organization is a man named Mark
Thomas, a former "state chaplain" of the Ku Klux Klan and now
Pennsylvania director of the Aryan Nations. He is also a minister
in the "Christian Identity" movement, a sect that believes
Europeans to be descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, and a
member of the underground Posse Comitatus. Thomas who describes
himself as a student of Nietzsche and the theories of Carl Jung,
has expressed sympathy for the "anti-colonial" struggle of the
IRA.
Thomas owns a house in Macungie near Allentown, Pennsylvania
which has become a hangout for followers he has recruited, who
frequently travel with him to a Christian Identity compound at
Elohim City, Oklahoma.
The leader of the bank robbers is a 38-year-old high school
dropout named Peter Langan, a.k.a. "Commander Pedro." He is
currently standing trial in Columbus, Ohio on charges resulting
from a bank robbery there. One of Thomas' recruits, Kevin
McCarthy, testified at Langan's trial last week that "the group
robbed banks to spread its beliefs and finance terrorism against
the government," according to an AP report.
Langan's partner in larceny, Richard Guthrie, was found hanged in
his Covington, Kentucky jail cell in 1996. A short time before
his death, Guthrie had made a deal with the FBI and federal
prosecutors, agreeing to testify against Langan and the ARA in
return for a reduced sentence. He also spoke to reporters from
the L.A. Times about a book he was going to write regarding the
bank robberies and the people involved in them.
According to Evans-Pritchard, Langan's "Aryan Army cell was
well-equipped for terrorism." Among the items seized by the FBI
when they arrested him were "a shoulder-fired rocket launcher,
Semtex explosives, hand-grenade canisters, 11 pipe-bombs, and an
arsenal of guns." The clandestine group is also said to have had
a system of safe houses and false documents of good quality.
THE RECENT INDICTMENTS
Thomas and four others were indicted on January 30 by a
Philadelphia grand jury that charged them with conspiracy to
commit bank robbery and receive stolen money in the years between
1994 and mid 1996. The indictment charged that Thomas had
''recruited young people at his residence . . . including
defendants Scott Anthony Stedeford and Kevin William McCarthy, to
rob banks and commit other crimes on behalf of the Aryan
Republican Army.''
James Ridgeway writes in the Villiage Voice that Thomas
"introduced Stedeford and McCarthy to Richard Lee Guthrie Jr. and
Peter Langan, the leaders of the Aryan gang."
,br>
Altogether, the gang is said to have committed 22 robberies,
seven of which are covered in the indictment, bringing them more
than $250,000. Thomas is alleged to have provided the gang with
equipment they used in connection with the robberies, including
false identity papers, radio equipment and a getaway van, and
they, in turn, gave him a portion of the stolen money. The
indictment maintains that Thomas used the money ''to further the
goals of the organization, building a separatist white bastion
and to purchase weapons and other items necessary for additional
bank and armored car robberies.''
Stedeford stood trial last year and was convicted of
participating in a 1996 robbery that took place in Des Moines,
Iowa. The 19-year-old McCarthy has testified against Langan at
his trial in Columbus, Ohio, implicating Thomas as the person who
planned the robberies.
ANDREAS STRASSMEIR
Another person named in the indictment is Michael William
Brescia, a 24-year-old part-time college student who lived for a
time with Andreas Strassmeir, a former German army officer, at
Elohim City. As mentioned in a previous column, Evans-Pritchard
revealed Strassmeir's connection with the Oklahoma City bombing
in several articles that appeared in the London Telegraph last
year. He also noted that Glenn and Kathy Wilburn, an Oklahoma
couple who lost two grandchildren in the terrorist attack, have
"accumulated evidence which they claim indicates Strassmeir was
an undercover US agent who, while based at Elohim City,
penetrated the white separatist movement and alerted the
authorities about the impending attack."
The Wilburns accuse the FBI of refusing to pursue leads which
place a number of suspects near the scene of the crime with Tim
McVeigh, in order to avoid exposing government negligence in the
incident. Glen Wilburn maintains, "This was a sting operation
that went berserk."
Now that the trail is getting hot, some journalists who had
previously ignored Strassmeir are beginning to spin the story.
Mark Eddy, writing in the Denver Post, is at pains to point out
that Strassmeir's "grandfather helped found the German Nazi
Party," and the Village Voice's James Ridgeway informs us that,
"No one knows much about Strassmeir, who is variously reported to
be a Berlin neo-Nazi, a German army intelligence officer, and
possibly even a U.S. or NATO undercover agent."
In fact, Andreas Strassmeir's identity was revealed months ago in
the British press. He is the son of Guenter Strassmeir who was a
member of the West German Bundestag (parliament) for more than 20
years and is a close confidant of German Chancellor Helmut
Kohl. Andreas, who is now 37, was once an intelligence officer
in the Bundeswehr, as the modern German army is called. He was
assigned the task of tracking down and turning East German
infiltrators.
Those who would swallow the cover story regarding Strassmeir's
"neo- Nazi" sentiments exhibit an extraordinary naivete regarding
the social order in modern Germany. It would be considered
extremely odd for a person of his background to join a neo-Nazi
group; sort of like a member of the British aristocracy hanging
out with skinheads -- not the done thing, old boy. It is
difficult to imagine that Strassmeir had much in common with the
lads at Elohim City, although it is not hard to understand why an
intelligence agent sent to infiltrate their organization might
pretend to have an affinity for their cause. As Evans-Pritchard
put it, "...it was a curious existence for a man who had once
been a lieutenant in the Panzer Grenadiers." During the course of
the five interviews he had with the London Telegraph, Strassmeir
observed that, "The Right-wing in the US is incredibly easy to
penetrate if you know how to talk to them. Of course it's easier
for a foreigner with an accent; nobody would ever suspect a
German of working for the federal government."
The point that needs to be understood here is that joining an
American neo-Nazi group is the last thing a German with genuine
National Socialist convictions would ever dream of doing. To such
a person, being a Nazi is a uniquely German thing. Nazis don't
like foreigners very much, especially Americans.
"JOHN DOE II"
Michael Brescia, the fifth man named in the indictment, attended
LaSalle University in Philadelphia for a time as a part-time
student. He also lived with Thomas, who introduced him to Guthrie
and Langan, before moving to Elohim City where he shared a house
with Strassmeir. His identification as the elusive "John Doe II",
who was sought for a time by the FBI as an accomplice of Tim
McVeigh, was discussed at some length in a previous column.
Although the Village Voice article claims that "the slight
Brescia is said to bear scant resemblance to the swarthy suspect
on the now discarded wanted posters," Evans-Pritchard wrote in
the July 1 Telegraph that "two witnesses came forward
immediately after the bombing and told the FBI that they knew
who the John Doe II in the artist's impression was."
One witness was a college student named Catina Lawson, who was a
close friend of McVeigh and the other was her mother, Connie
Smith. Lawson told the FBI on the day after the bombing "he had
a tattoo on his arm and his name was Mike, but I didn't know the
rest of his name."
Lawson also told the London Telegraph "I never found out what he
was doing in Kansas, but I remember [his girlfriend] saying that
he came from Pennsylvania, and I saw the Pennsylvania tags on his
car."
Smith was introduced to "Mike" by her daughter. She recalls
seeing him in the local town of Herrington with Tim McVeigh. Many
witnesses have reported seeing McVeigh in the Ryder truck that
was used in the bombing, but almost all of them have said that he
was not alone.
The description of John Doe II circulated by the FBI shortly
after the bombing noted that he had a tattoo on his arm. There is
no indication that the FBI pursued the lead given them by Lawson
and Smith. Two weeks ago the FBI discontinued its search for John
Doe II, saying that he was not involved in the bombing. U.S.
Attorney Michael R. Stiles has said that Brescia's indictment is
not connected with the Oklahoma City investigation.
Brescia has been named in a wrongful death suit brought by Edye
Smith whose two children were killed in the bombing. Although
served with the suit by Smith's attorney's, Brescia did not
respond within the time limit provided by law and has apparently
decided to default on the action.
Looks like McVeigh will go to his grave with the secret of the third man.
I firmly belive that he should be executed for his crime. However, I have a problem with the fact that so many others murderers are sitting on death row all over this country for year after year and none of them have been rushed to their execution as this man has been.
Link to copy of original Houston Chronicle article see reply#23
Link to copy of original Houston Chronicle article see reply#23
It's actually *right here*
-archy-/-
bump
Thanks, I obviously have a lot to learn.
This link has more stories from the gazette like the one you posted.
This link has more stories from the gazette like the one you posted.
Here is another
FBI agents reported to be seeking McVeigh associate
A little more on Colbern
McVeigh reported to claim responsibility for bombing (Mcveigh clears Colbern in this one...like he'd tell the truth anyway)
I think the seismic info is probably the most misleading, with the multiple events recorded more likely to be the effect of the blast's shock wave reflecting back to the ground from clouds overhead [no, I don't know weather conditions that day] or from other buildings, a condition seismologists would not be familiar with from either normal geophysical events or blasts of seismic explosives far less that 1000-4500 pounds in size.
If so, how do we reconcile the testimony of those who say that it was the second(ary?) blast that blew in the glass in their offices?
Couple of links here on Jaques
30 OKC bombing questions that demand an answer NOW(from 6/97?)
Chuck Baldwin site bomb html 4 articles
Same source as above, just different people
The juror that wouldn't shut up
----- Okay... here's a question for you. We have Elohim City and Brescia?? This Colbern guy... Missouri? In the search there is a . Colbern Road Baptist Church" in Missouri. possible connection? By the way, strange website, just a snail mail address and an email to Pastor Mark. Anyway thought I'd mention it.
If some or all of my links are duplicates, sorry, but I wasn't sure just what had been posted, though I tried to not duplicate but so much info is intertwined.
"Looks like McVeigh will go to his grave with the secret of the third man. "
and the fourth, fifth, sixth......
A little more on Howe and Elohim City
Is this Howe person still alive or did she commit Arkanicide?
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FBI initially picks up wrong 'Robert Jacks'
Another man named Robert Jacks was picked up by the FBI shortly after the bombing. He was one of two Arizona drifters thought to have crossed McVeigh's path. The FBI quickly cleared and released that Jacks, along with his traveling companion, Gary Land.
Maloney said he saw that Jacks on television and called the FBI's toll-free number to say, "They got the wrong man." That, in turn, triggered the current investigation.
The above is from the CNN link on Jacks.You notice how CNN does't mention Jacks and Land lived one bloch from the motel McVeigh was living in Kingman prior to the bombing. They don't mention Land and Jacks checked in to a motel in Perry,OK the same day McVeigh was jailed there for a traffic violation.
CNN-FBI Searching for Third Suspect
The above quote is from this link.
Here is another link dealing with prior knowledge. Prior
This whole thing is making me sick. On the one hand McVeigh certainly was involved, but it looks like justice will not be served and has not been served. It looks like others were involved and that the government chose to ignore the most likely suspects as accomplices and focus only on McVeigh.
Meanwhile try and find one news person that would even be willing to cover any story about 'others' being involved. This execution is moving ahead like a freight train. And one has to wonder why. Are they afraid that the longer McVeigh has to think about it, the more likely he may be to start talking. How many other people have been on death row for a lot longer time and yet are not executed in a 'timely' manner?
Isn't espionage against the US a federal offense? And if so, why haven't these spies over the past few years been executed? Only time will tell just how many lives they have put at risk through selling secrets.
One dealing with conflicting reports
"I think the seismic info is probably the most misleading, with the multiple events recorded more likely to be the effect of the blast's shock wave reflecting back to the ground from clouds overhead."
Seismic waves do not reflect from clouds.
The seismic recordings are very confusing, but in summary, here's what they show.
It is indeed true that the second wave train on the seismic record of the OK City bombing is an echo of the first, but from shale underneath the sandstone. However, the individual wave trains themselves are far too long to be the result of a single explosion. They are about 5 seconds longer than a isngle bomb blast followed by the partial collapse of the building can account for.
When the Murrah Building was demolished, the government held up the seismic record of the demolition to prove that the second wave train was a deep rock echo of the first, but that they inadvertantly showed was that the wave trains themselves were also identical. This is a problem for the government's case because the wave train for for demolition was created by an 8 second long sequenced series of blasts, followed by the collapse of the building. The wave train from the bombing, supposedly a single bomb blast plus floor collapse, should have been much shorter. But it was not. It matches in length the wave train of the multiple detonations of the demolition.
Another dealing with Mahon, Pipe Dream
The more I read the more Mahon sounds like Doe #2
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the defense of Howe
more prior knowledge and Elohim Unsealed Pre Trial Hearing
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