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U.S. national security adviser calls on Ukraine to stop providing weapons to Macedonia
AP KYIV, Ukraine (AP) - U.S. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice called on Ukraine on Wednesday to stop weapons supplies to Macedonia, saying arms transfers could jeopardize peace efforts in the troubled Balkan nation.
Ukraine is one of the main weapons suppliers to the Macedonian government, which has been battling ethnic Albanian rebels since February. In recent months, Macedonia has bought eight Ukrainian Mi-8 and Mi-24 helicopters along with four Su-25 aircraft, nearly doubling its air force, and there have been talks on Ukrainian construction of a technical support base to repair the aircraft.
We believe it is important to keep the focus on those political negotiations that are being facilitated by the European Union and the United States, Rice told a group of Ukrainian and foreign reporters. In that context, anything that adds to the belief that this conflict can be solved militarily is not helpful at this time.
It is not that the Macedonian government should not have adequate means for its defense, she said. But to rush arms into Macedonia at a time when they are in a political set of discussions, we think is not helpful. The Macedonian government has expressed outrage over a peace plan offered by European Union and American mediators, claiming it would lead to the breakup of the country.
Late Tuesday, Macedonian crowds attacked foreign embassies in the Macedonian capital Skopje, the mobs accusing NATO of supporting the guerrillas. They threw stones at the U.S. Embassy, smashed the entrances of the British and German embassies, and burned several cars belonging to the United Nations and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. The attacks followed a statement Tuesday by government spokesman Antonio Milososki, who accused Western mediators of coordinating their efforts with the rebels and called NATO a big friend of our enemies.
Macedonian officials have threatened to ignore Western mediation efforts and launch a new military offensive if ethnic Albanian rebels don't pull back from positions gained in fierce fighting around the city of Tetovo.
And the Ukraine has a right to sell arms to Macedonia to help them defend Macedonia wiped out these KLA murderers.
07/25/2001 - Updated 12:27 PM ET
Macedonia slides toward civil war
USA Today
TETOVO, Macedonia (AP) — The government gave ethnic Albanian rebels an ultimatum to pull back from around the country's second-largest city or face a new army offensive, as thousands of Macedonians streamed out of the city in packed cars and buses.
NATO Secretary-General Lord Robertson called the situation "critical" and said he and the European Union's foreign policy chief would fly to Macedonia on Thursday for urgent mediation to prevent a descent into full-scale civil war.
More than 8,000 people fled the area of the northern city of Tetovo in the past 24 hours, the government said, most heading for the capital Skopje after fierce fighting Sunday and Monday shattered a fragile cease-fire.
The exodus widened after Macedonia's defense minister and interior minister on Wednesday warned that military action was possible if the insurgents didn't retreat.
"Unless the rebels pull out to their previous positions ... we will no longer listen to suggestions from any Western mediator, and an offensive is not excluded as an option," the ministers said in a statement.
In Brussels, Belgium, Robertson urged restraint. "Any efforts to resolve the situation militarily can only result in the wreckage of the country and the inflicting of grave civilian casualties," he said.
Overnight, mobs of Macedonians rampaged against foreign embassies in Skopje, accusing NATO of supporting the guerrillas. Protesters threw stones at the U.S. Embassy late Tuesday, smashed entrances of the British and German embassies and burned several U.N. and other cars.
The clashes around Tetovo were the worst in months and dimmed hopes that peace talks that collapsed last month could be revived. Those fleeing the city largely were ethnic Macedonians — who form a majority in the country but a minority in Tetovo.
One lifelong resident, Milina Stavreva, packed to leave Wednesday, vowing never to return. "Enough is enough," said Stavreva, 60. "We can no longer live here."
The militants launched their insurgency in February, saying they were fighting for greater rights for minority ethnic Albanians, who account for up to a third of Macedonia's 2 million people. The government alleges the rebels are linked to militants in neighboring Kosovo and accuses them of trying to carve out territory from Macedonia.
"It makes no sense to continue the talks as long as the rebels are violating the cease-fire," government spokesman Antonio Milososki told The Associated Press. "If they don't return to their previous positions, we will force them to do so."
Britain's Foreign Office advised against all travel to Macedonia, and German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer strongly criticized the Macedonian government for stirring up anti-Western sentiment.
Fischer said government statements helped create "a violent domestic climate" and led to the embassy attacks.
On Tuesday, Milososki accused Western mediators of coordinating their efforts with the rebels and called NATO "a big friend of our enemies."
On Wednesday, the NATO-led peacekeeping force in Kosovo said it had detained more than 60 suspected rebels from Macedonia, seizing weapons and ammunition after intercepting three separate mule trains along the rugged border.
Defense Minister Vlado Buckovski and Interior Minister Ljube Boskoski gave the rebels until noon Wednesday to pull back to their previous positions in Tetovo. That deadline passed with no sign of an offensive.
Ministry spokesman Marjan Gjurovski said army barracks and positions near Tetovo's soccer stadium came under fire until 2 a.m. Wednesday. Tetovo's hospital said five wounded were brought in overnight, and that they included civilians and military personnel.
Several police checkpoints around the city were taken by rebels, media reported.
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Incredible!
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July 25, 2001, 2:04PM
Combatants agree to renew Macedonia truce
Reuters News Service
SKOPJE, Macedonia -- NATO has won the agreement of Macedonian government forces and ethnic Albanian guerrillas to reinstate a cease-fire shattered by three days of fighting, diplomatic sources said late today.
Under the deal, brokered by NATO special envoy Pieter Feith, the National Liberation Army (NLA) guerrillas would retreat from territory they have occupied since the truce took effect July 6. This would allow displaced Macedonian villagers to return.
"It was made clear to them (the NLA) that they were derailing a political process which they say they support," a diplomatic source said. The deal was due to take effect at 6 a.m. local time Thursday.
The government was presented with the NLA agreement, backed by NLA political representative Ali Ahmeti, and in return said its forces would exercise restraint around the volatile, predominantly Albanian town of Tetovo, he added.
The accord had been signed by the chiefs of the Macedonian police and army.
Macedonians who say they were expelled from villages seized by the NLA on a road from Tetovo toward the Kosovo border staged a protest rally in downtown Skopje on Tuesday that degenerated into anti-Western riots.
Under the deal, plans were being drawn up for them to return to their homes at the earliest opportunity, since NLA fighters would be expected to fall back around 1,700 feet from their current positions.
"It foresees a full demilitarization of that contentious strip of road," the diplomatic source said, adding that the restoration of a truce should give breathing space for Western envoys to revive peace talks.
"The cease-fire was sinking and dragging hopes for a political agreement with it. If we can calm down that area, we can take the heat of the situation," he said.
U.S. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice called on Ukraine on Wednesday to stop weapons supplies to Macedonia, saying arms transfers could jeopardize peace efforts in the troubled Balkan nation.
Directly contrary to U.S. policy on small weapons and our obsequious refusal to call Russia on the same count (re: sales to China and "militant" Islam).
Military Deals Way of Influencing Power Shifts Says Putin
Except from LA Times:
Rebels clash with police as mobs rage in Macedonia Opposition to NATO fuels rioting in capital
David Holley, Los Angeles Times
Wednesday, July 25, 2001
Skopje, Macedonia -- Fierce fighting erupted between ethnic Albanian guerrillas and Macedonian security forces yesterday in the country's second-largest city, Tetovo.
Meanwhile, ethnic Macedonian mobs, angered by the Western role in attempting to mediate a solution to the country's ethnic strife, roamed through the capital, Skopje.
And the Macedonians are the good guys!
Looming Macedonia conflict empties Tetovo Government issues ultimatum to rebels outside country's second-largest city
Toronto Star
TETOVO, Macedonia (AP) - The government gave ethnic-Albanian rebels an ultimatum Wednesday, telling them to pull back from around the country's second-largest city or face a new army offensive.
Thousands of Macedonians, meanwhile, streamed out of Tetovo in packed cars and buses.
NATO Secretary-General Lord Robertson called the situation ''critical'' and said he and the European Union's foreign policy chief would fly to Macedonia on Thursday for urgent mediation to prevent a descent into full-scale civil war.
More than 8,000 people fled from Tetovo in the past 24 hours, the government said, most heading for the capital Skopje after fierce fighting Sunday and Monday shattered a fragile ceasefire.
The exodus widened after Macedonia's defence minister and interior minister on Wednesday warned that military action was possible if the insurgents didn't retreat.
''Unless the rebels pull out to their previous positions ... we will no longer listen to suggestions from any western mediator, and an offensive is not excluded as an option,'' the ministers said in a statement.
In Brussels, Robertson urged restraint. ''Any efforts to resolve the situation militarily can only result in the wreckage of the country and the inflicting of grave civilian casualties,'' he said.
Overnight, mobs of Macedonians rampaged against foreign embassies in Skopje, accusing NATO of supporting the guerrillas. Protesters threw stones at the U.S. Embassy late Tuesday, smashed entrances of the British and German embassies and burned several UN and other cars.
The clashes around Tetovo were the worst in months and dimmed hopes that peace talks that collapsed last month could be revived. Those fleeing the city largely were ethnic Macedonians, who form a majority in the country but a minority in Tetovo.
One lifelong resident, Milina Stavreva, packed to leave Wednesday, vowing never to return. ''Enough is enough,'' said Stavreva, 60. ''We can no longer live here.''
The militants launched their insurgency in February, saying they were fighting for greater rights for minority ethnic Albanians, who account for up to a third of Macedonia's two million people. The government alleges the rebels are linked to militants in neighbouring Kosovo and accuses them of trying to carve out territory from Macedonia.
''It makes no sense to continue the talks as long as the rebels are violating the ceasefire,'' said government spokesperson Antonio Milososki. ''If they don't return to their previous positions, we will force them to do so.''
In Ottawa, the Department of Foreign Affairs advised Canadians not to travel to Macedonia. Britain's Foreign Office issued a similar advisory to its citizens.
German Foreign Minister Joschka Fische, meanwhile, strongly criticized the Macedonian government for stirring up anti-western sentiment. Fischer said government statements helped create ''a violent domestic climate'' and led to the embassy attacks.
On Tuesday, Milososki accused Western mediators of co-ordinating their efforts with the rebels and called NATO ''a big friend of our enemies.''
On Wednesday, the NATO-led peacekeeping force in Kosovo said it had detained more than 60 suspected rebels from Macedonia, seizing weapons and ammunition after intercepting three separate mule trains along the rugged border.
Defence Minister Vlado Buckovski and Interior Minister Ljube Boskoski gave the rebels until noon Wednesday to pull back to their previous positions in Tetovo. That deadline passed with no sign of an offensive.
Ministry spokesperson Marjan Gjurovski said army barracks and positions near Tetovo's soccer stadium came under fire Wednesday until 2 a.m. local time.
Tetovo's hospital said five wounded were brought in overnight, and that they included civilians and military personnel.
Several police checkpoints around the city were taken by rebels, media reported.
18:37 2001-07-25
Pravda
THE U.S. DIPLOMATIC MISSION IN MACEDONIA NEARLY CAPITULATES
The second large proportion of US embassy staffers is leaving Skopje in accordance with directions received from Washington. A month and a half ago, when ethnic Albanian extremists warned of possible shooting at major sites in the Macedonian capital, the first portion of US embassy staffers and their family members left Skopje. Only ambassador Mike Einik and some of the staff are staying in Macedonia. But this is going to be rather like a voluntary hostagedom – the embassy building is enclosed with a double fence which is 3m high, while the windows have armoured glass.
The US State Department has included Macedonia in the list of the countries which are not to be visited by US citizens, while those who are still staying there are strongly recommended to leave the country. By the way, similar measures were taken by Washington on the eve of the NATO military operation against Yugoslavia. So, it could be inferred that the current capitulation of the US diplomatic mission may signify a stirring up of hostilities in this former Yugoslavian province. It is also noteworthy (and PRAVDA.Ru has already mentioned it) that Albanian terrorists, who want fractionate of Macedonia, are trained in camps, where Pentagon officers can be found among their trainers.
Is this the Clinton administration or the Bush administration?? What an empty head Bush is. What a waste my vote for him was.
Who is worse? NATO or Red China at this moment???
And we're even giving them money too! I saw this last night on C-SPAN:
H.AMDT.219 (A017)
Amends: H.R.2506
Sponsor: Rep Kaptur, Marcy (offered 7/24/2001)
AMENDMENT PURPOSE:
An amendment numbered 50 printed in the Congressional Record to change the text of the bill to provide that not to exceed $125 million should be made available for assistance to Ukraine.
STATUS:
7/24/2001 6:25pm:
Amendment (A017) offered by Ms. Kaptur.
7/24/2001 6:47pm:
Mr. Kolbe raised a point of order against the Kaptur amendment (A017). The amendment sought to change existing law and constituted legislation in an appropriations bill. The Chair sustained the point of order.
The best part of the debate last night was that the Ukraine has the third highest amount of nuclear weapons and as such we should prevent them from selling them. Why don't we just buy them instead of paying them to not sell them?
Different Worlds in Macedonia
Growing Distance between Slavs and Albanians
NZZ Online
Andreas Ernst
Since the start of armed clashes, the distance between Macedonia's Slav majority and its Albanian minority has increased. Ordinary conversation in the workplace or on the street has become more difficult. But both groups are united in condemnation of their political elites.
The whole world knows it: Macedonia is "on the verge of civil war" and no one, least of all the usually pessimistic Balkan experts, would be surprised if full-scale fighting broke out between the Slav and Albanian populations. In fact, people should really be surprised that civil war hasn't broken out already. There are reasons enough for it to happen. Nearly 30 policemen and soldiers have been killed so far in battles with the Albanian rebels of the National Liberation Army (UCK); in some cases, their corpses have been mutilated. In the course of its attacks, Macedonia's army has destroyed dozens of homes and shops. For its part, the UCK continues to occupy suburbs of Skopje and Tetovo, driving out the Macedonian inhabitants. Fearful of war and of incursions by security forces, close to 70,000 ethnic Albanians have fled to Kosovo, and there have twice been pogrom-like outbursts in Bitola, in the course of which Albanian and Muslim businesses were destroyed. Yet with it all, the destructive spark of civil war has not yet ignited the interior of this multiethnic society.
Derided Politicians
What has prevented it? It would seem that the considerable distance between the two ethnic groups has kept friction to a minimum and absorbed tensions better than was the case in Bosnia, where violence spread quickly and devastatingly in the closely interwoven ethnic fabric. "It has always been possible to avoid trouble in Macedonia, and now people are really trying to," says Eran Fraenkel, the American head of an interethnic NGO who has lived in the country for many years. The increasing distance between the two major ethnic groups sometimes manifests itself in an exchange of populations between Macedonian- and Albanian-dominated areas. That process has only just begun; whether it will continue remains to be seen. But the media have run a number of reports on house exchanges between Macedonians from Tetovo and Albanians from Bitola. The daily newspaper Dnevnik quotes a Slavic Macedonian who has abandoned Tetovo as saying: "It will take a hundred years before the EU's multiethnic model functions here. We haven't that long to live."
Nevertheless, Macedonians and Albanians cannot entirely avoid each other in their common country. There are encounters in the workplace, in residential neighborhoods, waiting for a bus. But conversations between them have become more constrained. "There are many unspoken words between me and my Macedonian colleagues," says an Albanian woman who works in an office. "We don't talk about politics, about the causes of the crisis, about the evening news. We're slowly running out of things to talk about." But there is one relief valve in this restricted field of conversation: the common contempt for the political elites. In this, people can briefly draw closer together and find some agreement: "'They' have brought us to this pass, while we, the people (and for a change it is not the individual's ethnic group that is meant, but the community of citizens) want peace and a decent life."
The widespread derogation of the political class, which is seen by both segments of the populace as inept and corrupt, may be one reason why the politicians' nationalist appeals general fail to mobilize much support. It must be said to the credit of the much-derided politicians that hate-filled tirades and racist agitation are still the exceptions, and when they do occur they generally come from politicians of the second or third rank. Nonetheless the UCK has lately benefited from the distaste for the political elite, because Albanian youth regard it as a still honest and uncorrupted nationalist movement.
Common Defense
Behind people's caution in their daily exchanges, and the growing distance between the ethnic groups, there lurks fear. The citizens of Macedonia experienced the terrible wars in Bosnia and Kosovo from very close up, and in some cases at first hand. Yugoslavia's bloody disintegration, which Macedonia escaped "as if by a miracle," generated a mild sense of commonality among the people of both ethnic groups (which they ascribe more to historical chance than to a common destiny ... but still). In this way, the fear of war as an existential threat to both groups leads not only to polarization but in some cases to common defensive measures.
Saraj is a suburb of Skopje, with about 24,000 people living in scattered settlements in a rural setting. They are mostly either shopkeepers or farmers, and there are also two small industrial plants. Ninety percent of the inhabitants are Albanians, a majority of whom receive financial support from family members who have emigrated abroad, and 10 percent are Slavic Macedonians. Saraj contains two things that are important to the security of Skopje: a dam with a hydroelectric plant, and a segment of the highway to Tetovo, which links the Macedonian capital with the western part of the country.
By rights, Saraj should be a powder keg - like Aracinovo, a suburb on the opposite rim of the capital in which trouble has been brewing for years. And there have been plenty of rumors that things would soon come to a head in Saraj. But: "We have lived here peacefully together for centuries," says the town's 33-year-old mayor, Imer Selmani, whose desk is decorated with the double eagle of the Albanian Democratic Party alongside Macedonia's eight-rayed sun emblem. He relates how, as soon as the crisis broke out in the spring, he convened the local Civil Defense Council, an ethnically mixed body which has been meeting regularly ever since to prevent the conflict from spreading to the township's territory. Selmani also organized a large media event in the Town Hall, at which a number of speakers emerged from the crowd of several hundred persons to address their fellow citizens locally and across the country in both Albanian and Macedonian The media event elicited widespread reactions; appeals for peace by simple citizens, especially from both ethnic groups, had hardly ever been heard before. "And above all," says Selmani, "the event also helped to keep the peace here in Saraj."
Plans for Peaceful Coexistence
It was not an attack by the UCK that provided the Civil Defense Council's baptism under fire, but the appearance of officials from the Transport Ministry who arrived to knock down the illegally built homes of Albanian residents. Selmani admits that many home owners in his community do not have building permits, but he says that this is nothing new and certainly not a purely Albanian phenomenon. Rather, he insists, the action of the Transport Ministry at this point in time was nothing but an inflammatory provocation.He relates that he immediately hurried out, accompanied by a Macedonian member of the Civil Defense Council, and dissuaded the ministry officials from carrying out their plan. In other suburbs, however, illegally built homes were torn down. "That's how they create terrorists," says Selmani, "and they know it."
The mayor of Saraj not only wants to prevent civil war, he has more far-reaching plans for peaceful coexistence in his community. The House of Culture, an outsized complex dating from the socialist era, is to be reactivated to serve as a site for cultural events and language courses, activities of women's associations, and to provide offices for local villages and hamlets. "The only thing is," says Selmani to his visitors, "that it all costs money."
A Swiss Model?
But there is little money available, especially in Gorna Matka, one of the township's higher-altitude settlements with a splendid view of the jagged rock faces beneath which, in better days, hundreds of hikers and picnickers used to gather for pleasurable hours at the water and in the fields. Five young men, three Albanians and two Macedonians, sit in the shade of a linden tree on the dusty village square. Four of them are jobless. They find my questions rather odd. No, they feel no pressure to congregate only with their own kind. "We're all the same; there's my mother on her way to visit his aunt," remarks one. "It's always been like that," says a Macedonian, and his Albanian neighbor nods.
"We're following the Swiss model here," one of the young men laughs; they are all bilingual. But none of them wants to talk about politics. "That's what we pay the politicians for," says one. "But we don't pay any attention to them," adds another; "if we did we'd kill ourselves." They all laugh. Then they grow impatient because they want to go off for a swim. "The EU should force our politicians to make peace - but please, before war breaks out." They jump into a small, yellow Zastava which quickly disappears with a clatter behind the next curve.
Saraj and Gorna Matka do not explain why civil war has not yet broken out in Macedonia. They are exceptions. But such exceptions demonstrate to the people of the country that civil war is not inevitable.
25 July 2001 / First published in German, 19 July 2001
http://www.nzz.ch/english/background/2001/07/25_macedonia.html
Better yet why don't we just let Ukraine sell weapons to Macedonia?
And why don't we stop supporting these KLA or "NLA" murderers?
t-shirt..... I Dooooo like the way that you think and totally agree with you .....now get all your friends and you too to write your Congressmen and let them know you do not like the Clinton/Maddie trained KLA drug-dealing thugs, armed and sent out to provide cover for a corrupt Impeached President, and to stop the KLA hoodlums right now , or stand back and let the Serbs do it !!!
Not on my dime. Let them sell to whomever. But why are we giving them aid?
We are giving them aid so they support totalitarian world government and not armed good people like the Serbs and Macedonians who want defend themselves and to remain Independent.
We do all this horrible, evil crap to help establish this world order, this UN World Government Empire..
Had we the American people stood up and demanded Congress and the Courts address the issue Michael New so courageously stood up for, we probably would not still have troops in Macedonia or any of Yugoslavia defending the murdering KLA thugs. And Yugoslavia would be a peaceful, wonderful country.
It seems that the NSA in general is more interested in fellating Muslim heroin smugglers than looking out for national secuirty.
"And above all," says Selmani, "the event also helped to keep the peace here in Saraj."
This Albanian mayor should watch out. Neither KLA nor International Community will forgive him. He might end up, if he is lucky at the Kangaroo Tribunal in Hague or worse in some dungeon in "Kosova".
NATO brokers new Macedonia truce
Agreement comes after increased fighting and anti-NATO riots
pictured on website:
[U.N. and Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe vehicles after they were burned in overnight riots in downtown Skopje on Wednesday.]
MSNBC STAFF AND WIRE REPORTS
SKOPJE, Macedonia, July 25 — Undaunted by a storm of anti-Western rhetoric and unrest, NATO won the agreement of Macedonian government forces and ethnic Albanian guerrillas to reinstate a cease-fire shattered by three days of fighting, diplomatic sources said late Wednesday. Under the deal, brokered by NATO special envoy Pieter Feith, the rebels would retreat from territory they have occupied since the truce took effect July 6. This would allow displaced Macedonian villagers to return to their homes.
‘It makes no sense to continue the talks as long as the rebels are violating the cease-fire.’
— ANTONIO MILOSOSKI
Government spokesman “IT WAS MADE clear to (the guerrillas) that they were derailing a political process which they say they support,” a diplomatic source said. The deal was due to take effect at 6 a.m. ET Thursday.
Ali Ahmeti, a representative of the National Liberation Army, endorsed the agreement on behalf of the rebels. The accord also was signed by the chiefs of the Macedonian police and army.
The latest diplomatic breakthrough came after a night of anti-NATO riots and threats by the Macedonian government to ditch the latest peace initiative and launch a new offensive against ethnic Albanian guerrillas. The government had demanded that Western powers blame the rebels for ripping up a cease-fire or be exposed as their backers — a charge fiercely denied by NATO Secretary-General George Robertson and EU foreign affairs chief Javier Solana.
Earlier Wednesday, Macedonian government spokesman Antonio Milosovski challenged Western peace negotiators to answer one simple question to prove their commitment to peace.
“Who is guilty of breaking the cease-fire?” he asked. “If they do not respond, then it will be clear that they are protecting those who attacked democratic Macedonia.”
Robertson and Solana, due in Skopje Thursday for a bid to revive talks, said the allegations were unfair.
“The only side NATO is on is that of democracy, peace,” Robertson said in Brussels. “The situation ... is critical.”
THIRD DAY OF STREET FIGHTING
Before the deal was announced, a third straight day of fierce street firefights in the flashpoint town of Tetovo, 25 miles west of the capital, Skopje, ratcheted tensions a notch higher. Although fighting died down in the early morning hours, both sides were digging in.
National Liberation Army guerrillas showed no signs of retreating, despite a government ultimatum to withdraw on Wednesday.
Hundreds of cars and at least a dozen buses packed with residents and their belongings were leaving town.
“It makes no sense to continue the talks as long as the rebels are violating the cease-fire,” said Milosovski. “If they don’t return to their previous positions, we will force them to do so.”
The militants launched their insurgency in February, saying they were fighting for greater rights for minority ethnic Albanians, who account for up to a third of Macedonia’s 2 million people. The government alleges the rebels are linked to militants in neighboring Kosovo and accuses them of trying to carve out territory from Macedonia.
MACEDONIAN DEMAND
Milosovski demanded that Western powers blame the guerrillas for ripping up a cease-fire. “If they do not respond, then it will be clear that they are protecting those who attacked democratic Macedonia,” he said.
Germany, whose embassy was stoned in an anti-Western rampage in Skopje on Tuesday, quickly obliged. But Europe’s top diplomat denied the West was abetting the rebels, saying its sole aim was to restore stability to the divided former Yugoslav republic.
“That is not true,” Solana said during a Middle Eastern peace mission. “What we are trying as the European Union in Macedonia is to help the country to help the people of the country.”
On Wednesday, NATO announced that peacekeepers in neighboring Kosovo, which the rebels use as a base, had arrested in 62 men suspected of being guerrillas operating in Macedonia, and seized big hauls of weapons and ammunition. That event, however, was not expected to assuage the Macedonian government.
NATIONALIST AGENDA
Diplomats said the government appeared to be pursuing an outright nationalist agenda instead of granting greater rights to Albanians.
Rebel advances into Tetovo under cover of a cease-fire that held for 18 days have enraged the Macedonian majority. Losing territory in fierce fighting, which has forced hundreds from their homes, has strengthened the government’s “war” camp.
Bush visits Balkans peacekeepers
Tuesday’s rampage started with Macedonians throwing stones at the U.S. Embassy, smashing entrances of the British and German embassies, and burning several cars belonging to the United Nations and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
Britain’s Foreign Office said Wednesday it was considering advising against all travel to Macedonia.
Amid the growing hostilities, Macedonian authorities closed the border with Kosovo.
A senior Western diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity, said U.S. envoy James Pardew and his European Union counterpart, Francois Leotard, were working “to avert the country from plunging into civil war.”
REBELS MOVE IN
On the ground in Tetovo, the rebel presence was conspicuous. Carloads of bearded guerrillas raced between a string of rebel checkpoints a few hundred yards from Macedonian lines on Tetovo’s outskirts. Numerous rebels were fortifying new positions.
Behind a sports stadium separating the two forces, four houses were burned out and a gaping hole in one building suggested a Macedonian tank shell had ripped it open.
Although the rebels have seized swathes of northern and western Macedonia, where most of the tiny Balkan state’s Albanian minority lives, it denies its five-month revolt in the name of Albanian civil rights has a territorial agenda.
“The war will go on until the Macedonians accept our demands,” warned the burly, tattooed commander of the rebel forces on Tetovo’s eastern fringe, whose nom de guerre is Hamzi.
Well ... yes, of course there is that.
But the U.S. would look sorta silly admitting same, now, wouldn't they?
Might expose us and our bloody Clean Hands as the Evil we are.
bump
bump
Ethnic Albanian rebels massing across north and west Macedonia: Skopje
SKOPJE, July 19 (AFP) - Ethnic Albanian guerrillas are regrouping across the north and west of Macedonia, the defence ministry said Thursday as talks to find a way out of the six-month crisis faltered. Shooting erupted in several northern areas as guerrillas of the National Liberation Army (NLA) were spotted mustering as far afield as Struga, near the southwestern border with Albanian, and Tanusevci, a former stronghold on the northern border with Kosovo, a ministry statement said.
The NLA opened rifle fire on police positions in villages around the northwestern town of Tetovo late Wednesday and early Thursday, and uniformed fighters were spotted in the town itself, the ministry said. No injuries were reported. Firing targeted police at a checkpoint near the stadium in the mainly Albanian town, with shots coming from Drenovec on the edge of Tetovo and a number of other Albanian villages.
The ministry said that men in civilian clothes had been spotted hauling covered crates into mosques in what appeared to be preparation for renewed fighting.
Eight fighters also attacked a police checkpoint at a petrol station near the northern town of Kumanovo, close to villages held by the rebels in the foothills of the Black Mountains between Kumanovo and Skopje. They were driven off without any casualties, the ministry said. For the first time a group of 15 rebels were sighted near the Matka dam on the southwestern fringes of Skopje, where the army has heavily reinforced its garrison in recent weeks. Other guerrillas were seen moving for the first time near Radusce, 10 kilometres (six miles) west of Skopje, where the capital's water supply is stored in reservoirs. And for the first time a group of fighters was seen near Struga, a town just 10 kilometres from the Albania on the shores of Lake Ohrid, the ministry said. Macedonian troops also opened fire on a group of rebels trying to enter the country from Kosovo. They were replused after a brief firefight near the village of Tanusevci, where the rebellion first erupted in February. The widespread regrouping came after two bomb blasts in the capital left one woman injured, while the governmental coordinating committee overseeing military aspects of a fragile ceasefire confirmed that three Macedonian men had been abducted Wednesday by a group of 11 armed NLA fighters near Tetovo. Political talks among Macedonian Slav and ethnic Albanian political leaders foundered late Wedenesday, with both sides saying they were drawing the line on further concessions.
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1 Posted on 07/19/2001 05:43:35 PDT by oxi-nato
We are giving them aid because the UN advisor said to.
Pieter Feith...wait five years, write a book and get rich!
The evil being done and manipulated in the Balkans is bey6ond belief!
"Macedonia slides toward civil war"
I guess this is going to be western media's catch phrase, CIVIL WAR.
Since the invaders are hired mercenaries, it can hardly be called a civil war.
It's an invasion, not a civil war.
bump
It's an invasion, not a civil war.
-- laconas
Exactly, and post # 25 that I reposted from July 19th proves the point well.
Even the title makes it clear:
"Ethnic Albanian rebels massing across north and west Macedonia: Skopje"
bump
Is this the Clinton administration or the Bush administration?? What an empty head Bush is. What a waste my vote for him was. Who is worse? NATO or Red China at this moment???
NATO - by far....and Condoleeza Rice is nothing but a sock puppet for the leftwingers.Pity the poor Macedonian people who are about to be the victims of another greedy NWO holocaust.
Had we the American people stood up and demanded Congress and the Courts address the issue Michael New so courageously stood up for, we probably would not still have troops in Macedonia
Michael New's case against being forced to serve under the UN is on going and is now being prepared to go into civilian courts- Contributions are still being taken at =
Michael New Legal Defense Fund
2721 H-I-J Merrilee Drive, No. 408
Fairfax Va. 22031-4407
stop italics
Italics
Missed the bold
Last try
It is an invasion. This is why NATO stood firmly on its ground to reintroduce a peace fire despite the humphing indignation of the unfair accusations hurled publicly by the Macedonian government. This will buy time to strategize. The public is already prepped for "civil war". In its brief reporting on the situation in Macedonia, the McNeil Leher news hour featured a photograph of a masked man holding a rifle. What more does the public want or need. It is still not clear to me how a "civil war" can occur, when 3/4 of the country is unaffected.
NATO (from 1999- present) is reminiscent of the role played by the Great Powers during the Macedonian Ilinden (St. Elijah) insurrection against the Turks in 1903. The British liaison offices acted as vigilent informants for the Ottomans of the plans and whereabouts of the Macedonian resistance movement. The French attacked Greek collaboration with the Ottomans against the Macedonians, while praising the Serbs for good behaviour. The Austrians reported on the slaughters of the Macedonians by the Turks and prided themselves on their humane administration of Bosnia-Herzegovina. The Russians reported the slaughters of the Macedonians in detail, giving the names of the over 200 villages burned to the ground, and the names and manner of death of tens of thousands of Macedonians, most of whom were unarmed civilians, men, women and children who had no chance to flee.
After the Macedonian resistance was crushed by the Ottomans, who outnumbered the Macedonians about 100 to 1 in military fighting force, the Macedonians were then forced to make public responses refuting the claims of the Ottomans prominently publicized by European newspapers, that the Macedonians' resistance movement against Moslem Ottoman rule, was conspiratorial, and caused the deaths of many Ottomans.
I see no change in Europe's policy towards Macedonia, right down to making the Macedonians the unarmed vicitms to be slaughtered en masse, by forces trained and supported and funded by Europe, who thinks nothing of lecturing Macedonia on its bad manners in telling the truth.
Conspiracy theory? There is no need for conspiracy. There is history, and there is the present, and it is the same. The prior administration was made of the same cloth as the European henchmen who condemned Macedonia to a century of tragedy. The present administration has to extricate itself from those rotten apples still floundering in the hallways of our foreign policy.
Pity the poor Macedonian people who are about to be the victims of another greedy NWO holocaust.
33 Posted on 07/25/2001 15:05:35 PDT by StoptheDonkey
Very sickening and very true. I predicted this, but I wish I as wrong. We need to get the hell out of the UN and stop partipating in all this evil.
And we should remember that NATO is just part of the UN.
Mike New's Father was on the Alex Jones show the other day defending his UN-Free Zone towns, and cities initiative against the John Birch Society's leaders who have decided to amazing defend the UN!!!
They are going to lose atleast half their members over this. I guess they've been completely co-opted.
>It is also noteworthy (and PRAVDA.Ru has already mentioned it) that Albanian terrorists, who want fractionate of Macedonia, are trained in camps, where Pentagon officers can be found among their trainers.
Thanks for flagging me, but I'll tell you my problem with this Macedonia thing--
Not only do I NOT know what to believe, but I don't even know HOW to _decide_ what to believe.
Everyone has lied at one point or another. Everyone has engaged in outrageous actions at one time or another.
Does anyone here have a useful metric for determining (or guessing at) credibility in this context?!
Mark W.
Where has the Macedonian government lied or committed any outrageous actions?
Thanks for the bump. Hope the Macedonians built good bomb shelters in Skopje. They're going to need them.
Just like an Elbonian. Shouting without break!
Go away!
To think that we put the KLA on the map, bombing Serbia. All to cover the fact that Bill Clinton couldn't keep his fly zipped, and was about to be publicly investigated for getting BJs in the Oval Office from Monica.
the KLAlbanian known as vajzStrugane just joined FreeRepublic last night!!
It must be a shock to many that conservative Republicans can not stand what NATO is doing in the Balkans and can not stomach the Albanian cause in the least.
This group of lefties, neo-conservative, interventionists and ethnic Albanian boosters must react with horror at the frequency and volume of truth we uncover and how correct we in the anti-war/interventionist Free Republic camp are.
vajzStrugane, I do not want you to go away. In fact read my bookmarks and learn from my collection what you are up against. I and others have not only tracked the UCK/NLA/KLA-Albanians but have even been almost prophetic.
By the way, vajzStrugane, I am not a Yugoslav of any ethnic background as are many Freepers who are anti-UCK (the vast majority).
The Albanian terrorists are murdering innocent people because their government and the US CIA/government want them to and are arming them and paying them more than they'd ever make in Albania--the poorest at most totalitarian country in Europe or the Balkans!
The Albanian KLA terrorists are cowardly slime!
And they are being used as useful idiots!
Ditto, t-shirt.
Truth bump
AP KYIV, Ukraine (AP) - U.S. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice called on Ukraine on Wednesday to stop weapons supplies to Macedonia, saying arms transfers could jeopardize peace efforts in the troubled Balkan nation
Condoleezza Rice has no right to call on Ukraine to stop sending arms for defense of Macedonia from the Albanian terrorists. We should be supporting Ukraine and other Slavic countries in their defense of people of Macedonia. C. Rice comments are in the same vein as England's and France's in August 1939, when their leaders pressured Polish government not to mobilize their army, so that Germany "would not be provoked".
Macedonia as a sovereign country has a right to defend itself. It seems that C. Rice is following footsteps of Madeline Albright (the butcher of Serbia) to destroy independent Slavic countries.
Condoleezza Rice is just one more CFRer doing her part setting up the NWO
I am glad that brave and principled patriot has not been forgotten. God help us, but "they" no longer have the decency to have our soldiers remove their uniforms for the blue beret anymore. They have our soldiers wear the American colors as they do these deeds now.
Remember when just last month the US Army gave an armored escort to the Albanian rebels to avoid their destruction by the defending army of FYROM? And FYROM is a member of NATO's minor league the so called Partnership for Peace!! Is this how we treat allies?
Amen to that. I have no problem bending any ear within the sound of my voice.
Earlier protesters gathered in front of the Macedonian parliament building displaying a banner that read: "Who is protecting the terrorists? - Nato"
The Macedonian government has also accused international mediators of providing the rebels with equipment. Antonio Milosoki, a government spokesman said international representatives were in "open, public cooperation with the rebels".
Meanwhile the ethnic Albanian National Liberation Army (NLA) was consolidating its grip in the north of the country around the predominantly Albanian city of Tetovo. Anti-Nato riots in Macedonia as rebel attack intensifies
"In addition, the Christian Democrat (Germany) opposition has said it would break
with tradition and not support a parliamentary motion endorsing
German involvement in the planned Nato operation in Macedonia
unless the government takes steps to boost the military's overall
budget. "
Financial Times; Jul 26, 2001
The latest mission (Lord Robertson, Nato secretary general, and Javier Solana, European Union foreign policy chief, will today embark on a crisis mission to Macedonia in a bid to prevent the republic from sliding into civil war.) to Skopje follows an escalation of fighting between the ethnic Albanian National Liberation Army and Macedonian forces around the town of Tetovo, and riots on Tuesday night in the capital, Skopje, by ethnic Slavs who accuse Nato and the EU of favouring the Albanian rebels.
Nato has already drawn up plans to send 3,000 troops into the republic to supervise a future ceasefire, disband the NLA and collect weapons under an eventual political settlement between the two communities.
But operation "Essential Harvest" will not start until there is political agreement. Nato and EU officials said they had no back-up plan if mediators failed to stop the fighting. "We have no fall-back position," said a Nato official. "Even if we were asked by President (Boris) Trajkovski to send in troops to stop the fighting and impose some kind of peace, it could lead to another Bosnia or another Kosovo."
Attempts to halt the fighting and bring both sides back to negotiations will be made more difficult by the growing climate of distrust on the part of the Macedonian Slav majority towards the international mediators.
Some government ministers, including Ljubco Georgievski, the prime minister, have accused Nato, the EU and the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) of siding with the rebels, strongly denied by all three.
Lord Robertson said he was determined to get the negotiations back on track, insisting the gap between both sides was "very, very small indeed. It might be an important difference but it is a very small difference. I believe it is quite possible politically to bridge that gap." The difference is over the role of language. The mediators propose the Albanian language be all but given status as the republic's second official language. The Macedonians have strongly objected to this, believing it will break up the unitary character of the state.
"It would be a tragedy of almost historic dimensions if the country was
to fall into civil war about one word in the document," said Lord
Robertson. "And I don't think that anybody in the future would ever
forgive those responsible if pigheadedness about a single word was
going to bring another Balkan bloodbath."
Financial Times
Macedonian officials have threatened to ignore Western mediation efforts and launch a new military offensive if the rebels don't pull back from positions gained in fierce fighting around the city of Tetovo.
Tuesday night, angry Macedonian nationalists attacked the American and other western embassies, accusing the West of favoring the rebels.
Many of the rebels are from neighboring Kosovo — the same people the United States fought to save two years ago. Experts say that NATO intervention encouraged the Albanian militants.
"They believe that because they won with NATO's help in Kosovo that they now stand a good chance of winning in Macedonia itself," said Gabriel Partos, a Balkans expert.
The rampage started late Tuesday throughout Skopje, with Macedonians throwing stones at the U.S. Embassy, smashing entrances of the British and German embassies, and burning several cars belonging to the United Nations and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
It was the second such riot in a month's time. On June 26, Macedonians, who were upset that NATO was escorting rebels out of a combat zone under a cease-fire, stormed parliament.
In recent days, clashes between government troops and rebel soldiers have intensified. The fighting subsided when the cease-fire came into effect in late June, but this week it resumed near Tetovo.
"The war will go on until the Macedonians
accept our demands," warned the burly,
tattooed commander of NLA forces on
Tetovo's eastern fringe, whose nom de guerre
is Hamzi.
More
==============================================================
The United Nations refugee agency said today it was "deeply disturbed" by reports that Macedonian Slavs were
fleeing ethnic Albanian areas of the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, "a development that recalls some of the
darkest days of the past decade in the Balkans," according to the agency.
Eric Morris, special envoy in the region for the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), said the agency had been concerned about the possible separation of ethnic populations since the beginning of the conflict in February.
"Our fear has been that one ethnic community would go in one direction, towards the State security forces, and the other community would go the other direction, in search of security on the other side," Mr. Morris said, adding that he was particularly disturbed by the recent departure of Macedonian Slavs from the towns of Aracinovo and Lesok.
"It was not my feeling that 'ethnic cleansing' was the intent of the conflict, but if there's going to be a separation of the population, the consequences could be the same," he said. "It can spiral out of control. And if a community believes it was forcibly expelled, enormous barriers will be created for any eventual return."
Earlier today, a UNHCR spokesman in Geneva said the refugee agency was "deeply concerned" at the latest ceasefire
violations in the country, and urged all parties to avoid further confrontation that could cause new displacements. There
are more than 60,000 refugees from the FYR of Macedonia in neighbouring Kosovo, as well as up to 30,000 internally
displaced people, the spokesman said.
UN refugee agency
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Macedonian officials have threatened to ignore Western mediation efforts and launch a new military offensive if ethnic Albanian rebels don't pull back from positions gained in fierce fighting around the city of Tetovo.
Western mediation will not save Macedonia. Throwing these western negotiators out on their asses and resuming military ops against the narco-pimps WILL save Macedonia.
Finally, Condoleezza Rice has shown her true face!
It is worth noting that Condoleezza Rice's last job was a Chevron oil executive playing the "Great Game" for Caspian oil and gas reserves. Coincidentally:
(1) Chevron oil from the new CPC pipeline will start being loaded on Black Sea tankers bound for Chevron refineries on August 6th, 2001;
(2) With the Bosphorus overcrowded, the AMBO pipeline needs to be fast tracked in order to move the crude;
(3) NATO occupation of Macedonia and Albania are necessary conditions to guarantee the pipeline route;
(4) Any attempt by Macedonia to obtain weapons to protect itself from U.S. backed terrorists would delay the NATO occupation, thus setting back the pipeline and BIG Chevron profits.
p.s. Vice President Cheney's last job was President of Halliburton (+Brown and Root), a oil service company and the builder of Camp Blowsteel.
*******!
she has lost any credibility left...
Condoleeza Rice not only served on Chevron's board of directors for a decade, there is a double-hulled super-tanker in the Chevron fleet named for her. (But then, to be fair, there's another tanker named the "George Schulz", after another oil-industry "player" turned State Dept. "statesman".)
Among other interesting details, the following article gives a long and detailed account of Chevron's response to civil unrest in the delta region of Nigeria. They sent in their own company helicopters and helped the Nigerian military, when people rebelled at having to live with all the pollution and environmental costs and compromises, but few of the economic benefits of the oil that came from their part of the country.
http://www.public-i.org/story_01_022801.htm
The story is all about her 'potential' conflict of interest during her nomination hearings and it's really worth a look.
Does anyone know who "Pieter Feith" is, the NATO "political director of the Balkans"? (Why does that sound sort of like a new name for 'gaulieter', or 'commisar'?)
Where's he from, what's his background and his current responsibility?
It did seem like he was helpful in getting the KLA out of that southern border strip.
Hi t-shirt
Re your post 13 good post
It helps to remember that we are talking about real people the majority who just want to get on with there life’s. They don’t want a repeat of Kosovo and Bosnia
Tony
WASHINGTON BEHIND TERRORIST ASSAULTS IN MACEDONIA" - MUST READ.
Mr. Shawn Sullivan, who has worked on these issues successfully as the Political Advisor to the Commander of KFOR, to serve as the Head of my Representative's Office in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.
here's another guy to watch.
personal boot licking lacky to nato secretary general
How encouraging, to see that somebody
is actually doing something useful! Please note that by "somebody," I'm not referring to either Mlle. Rice or the NSA, and by "something," I'm not referring to the ongoing nattering of various nabobs. Perhaps the time has arrived for Ukraina (not to mention its neighbors to the north) to flex some long-dormant muscle, in the defense of its Slavic brethren. I've been expecting something like this for some time now.
On Tuesday, Milososki accused Western mediators of coordinating their efforts with the rebels and called NATO "a big friend of our enemies."
How true, yet I don't know why !!!
Can you post any more info on JBS supporting NATO or UN? This would go to their core. Talk about conspiracy theories...
Clinton destroys Serbia and Kosovo...Runs the Yugoslav citizens out of their own country and gives it to a bunch of drug running terrorist Arabs...
Now Bush is doing the same thing to Macedonia....Helping the same drug runners take over that sovereign country...It's like they say, if it don't make sense, there's a buck in it...Somebody's getting rich and it doesn't matter that a lot of people are dying for it...When it doesn't make sense, follow the money trail...Then we'll know why our government has turned against it's democratic allies...
I hope Ukraine does not back down and says no to our power mad rulers in Washington! The Macedonian people have a right to defend themselves from terrorists.
U.S. National Security Adviser Calls on Ukraine to Stop Providing Weapons to Macedonia (WHY???)
Why? Because as the only superpower the U.S. feels it is the only country allowed to sell weapons around the world. Anyone else who does it is a "rogue state." It's less about politics and more about money.
I hope Ukraine does not back down and says no to our power mad rulers in Washington! The Macedonian people have a right to defend themselves from terrorists.
78 Posted on 07/26/2001 07:13:39 PDT by Anonymous Confederate
I pray that both the Ukraine and Macedonia will be strong, make a courageous stand, and do what is right.
There was a newspaper story which mentioned it from what I heard, but I don't have the story.
I love to read this and know we had a David who stood tall against Goliah!
------------------------------------------------------------
On October 10, 1995, the 1/15 Battalion of the 3rd infantry Division of the U.S. Army came to attention at 0900 in Schweinfurt, Germany. All but one of the 550 soldiers were wearing a sky-blue baseball-style cap with a United Nations insignia on the front. One was wearing the olive-drab flat cap that is authorized to be worn with the Battle Dress Uniform. With this simple act of disobeying a direct order, Spc. 4 Michael New set the stage for a legal battle that has profound implications for the future of American soldiers into service of the United Nations without the constitutional permission of Congress.
Please read post 82.
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Why ? I think its neat
stoping the ass
Great post, T. Thanks.
Post 82.
The best part of the debate last night was that the Ukraine has the third highest amount of nuclear weapons and as such we should prevent them from selling them.
Clarification needs to be made.
Ukraine has been nuclear weapons free since 1996.
go bold
As an Australian Serb who was in Yugoslavia on holidays when the the criminal Nato bombing started on March 24 1999,I have no sympathy for all those bleeding hearts Macedonians. Where were all of you when we needed you the most in our hour of need ? Giving Nato access to their territory to bomb the living daylights out of us , thats where? Every Serb I know will never forgive the Macedonian people for this treachery. We warned the world about the Albanian menace and no-one wanted to listen. We tried to solve the problem for all of Europe and how were we treated - like criminals and the bad guys. Well, I hope now that you Macedonian people and the rest of Europe get what you deserve, as this is only the beginning of the muderous KLA conquest of a Greater Albania with the help of the USA. We Serbs will never forgive the Macedonians so don't expect help from us as you won't get it. They will gobble you up as they did to Kosovo and the west won't let you fight them to defeat as they did to us. If you do get on top of them they'll hit you with sanctions or military retaliation so you can't win. Give my boys a go and we'll show the world how to get rid of this vermin that is infesting Europe.
Condi should go to an Israeli refresher course in strategy and state,
"I will call on Ukraine on Wednesday to stop weapons supplies to Macedonia, if jeopardized peace efforts stop in the troubled Balkan nation."
"We believe it is important to keep the focus on those political negotiations that are being facilitated by the European Union and the United States, Rice told a group of Ukrainian and foreign reporters. In that context, anything that adds to the belief that this conflict can be solved militarily is not helpful at this time."
Has Ms Rice spoken similar words to the CIA...principle arms supplier to the KLA?? Evidently Ms Rice does not wish the legitimate government of Macedonia to be negotiating its freedom and sovereignty from a position of strength. And I thought we were rid of these f#$king treacherous, deceitful bastards when we got rid of clintoon, albright, etc
Amen to that,bro!It is a time to pay the piper!
Damn right it is time ! All those short sighted people out there can't see what the real long term strategic aim of the KLA is - Greater Albania. Bit by bit they will gobble up neighbouring regions which includes parts of Greece and Montenegro until they reach their final goal. Their tactic is to fight and take territory, then ask for a cease fire with Nato protection then regroup and consolidate their gains then cede some land. A bit like take two steps forward and one step back then repeat it till you have the whole damn thing. To hurt them you need to open up multiple fronts and hit them deep in their own territory. Such as destabilizing Albania itself with their own insurgents so that they can worry about their own home instead of others. Assasinating the KLA political/military leaders in Kosovo such as Ceko , Thaci , Remi and Rugova which will get them running scared to death about destabilizing others. But most of all , give my boys a chance to finish the bastards once and for all as we know how to fight them. They are running scared to fight us one on one as was shown in Presevo and Southern Serbia recently. The Macedonians were laughing at us when we were getting the crap bombed out of us in 1999 and in Australia you could see their flags mingling with the Albanian ones when there were protests. Well who is laughing now and as the saying goes,"WHO LAUGHS LAST , LAUGHS THE LOUDEST !". HAHA !
Uh.... was this a 'Rice' idea or was it handed down from upon high? Now who's the president of the United States again???
VRN
Gajic...I agree with you 1000 percent, but have one question. Was it the Macedonian Slavs that stabbed Serbs in the back in 1999, OR the spineless, treasonous Macedonian government officials as in the case of Greece. Ninety five percent of the Greek population opposed the phoney NATO agression against Yugoslavia, but their rotten socialist heathen government cooperated with NATO to extent they could get away with it against the will of their citizens. You may recall the Greeks blockading military convoys...changing road signs, etc. Macedonia provided logistical support...bases, etc. Were the Macedonians themselves in support, or was it again the actions of heathen political elites who wish to curry favor and "suck in" with the NWO big boys in order to secure their own futures in the brave new NWO?? A legitimate question is "why don't they (the citizens) kick these politicians out??" I have to believe they are the victims of big time "rigged"(by the NWO) national elections as is the US. When a nation like Greece (98 percent Christian) ends up with a heathen socialist government...something is rigged or they have seriously incurred the wrath of God. In any case, I do not think the right answer is to let Macedonia go down the drain because they "dumped" on the Serbs. This only rewards the muslim.
I don't know, it seems like a Clinton policy.
You think maybe he gave the order???
Would this condecending, disgusting, globalist twit tell that to France if it was selling arms to England for fighting terrorists?
Here we are using the CIA to train these murderous thugs who the USA knows are invading Macedonia unprovoked and we are protecting these thugs, and yet we are telling the Macedonia not to defend their people???
And we are telling the good people of the Ukraine not to sell arms to help another good group of people to defend themselves against communist, Islamic, murdering terrorists!
The best part of the debate last night was that the Ukraine has the third highest amount of nuclear weapons and as such we should prevent them from selling them.
Clarification needs to be made.
Ukraine has been nuclear weapons free since 1996.
-- Solon
We did a terrible thing by blackmailing and bribing the Ukraine into giving up their nuclear arms.
We should have encouraged the Ukrains to keep their nuke and point them at our enemies Russia and China.
I understand your feelings on this.
But you can't blame every Macedonian for the cowardess of their politicians, anymore than you can blame every American for the evil holocost Clinton, and a cowardly, and complicit Congress wrecked on Serbia and Kosovo.
It will be hard to expect the Serbian and other people of these areas for the murderous evil being done to them for the New World Order agenda.
People from Macedonia destroyed the American Embassy as a revolt of the NATO bombardment. The outrafge of the people was enormous. There were anti-NATO demonstrations in several cities. What did you expect? To fight back NATO? Foolish! JNA left not a single bullit to the Macedonian Army. Now they pay back by sending 80 T-84 tanks to Macedonia.
Now the Macedonians are againg attacking Embassies. They are doing the same thing. The revolt is again the same. Your position is absolutely shameful.
"Ukraine has been nuclear weapons free since 1996."
Sure. They were totally honest and handed over or destroyed every single one. If you believe that, I've got some ocean front property to sell you in Arizona.
An addendum to this article:
Ukraine to maintain military cooperation with Macedonia - Foreign Ministry
BBC Monitoring Service - United Kingdom; Jul 26, 2001
That's gist for the tin foil hat brigade.
We are giving them aid because the UN advisor said to.
The UN administration in Kosovo is just following the dictates of NATO. The UN is not calling the shots in this and never has. NATO only agreed to have a nominal UN administration in Kosovo with a clear understanding that UNMIK would be totally subordinate to NATO. The KLA-NLA-UCPMB forces were created, armed, bankrolled, and trained by the CIA & other Western intelligence agencies and by MPRI, which was hired by the US government to coordinate this.
See: Private US firm training both sides in Balkans: "Only two years ago the rag-tag Kosovar Albanian rebels were taken in hand by the Virginia-based company of professional soldiers, Military Professional Resources Incorporated.
"An outfit of former US marines, helicopter pilots and special forces teams, MPRI’s missions for the US government have run from flying Colombian helicopter gunships to supplying weapons to the Croatian army....
"Then in 1998 and 1999 MPRI was tasked with training and assisting the ethnic Albanians of the Kosovo Liberation Army....
"MPRI sub-contracted some of the training programme to two British private security companies, ensuring that between 1998 and June 1999 the KLA was being armed, trained and assisted in Italy, Turkey, Kosovo and Germany by the Americans, the German external intelligence service and former and serving members of Britain’s 22 SAS Regiment."
Interesting, that way they are sure to keep up to date on intel.
"JNA left not a single bullit to the Macedonian Army. Now they pay back by sending 80 T-84 tanks to Macedonia."
Bube, are you saying the JNA sent 80 T-84's to Macedonian army??? OK, with that kind of hardware, they should be able to do some serious damage the narco-pimp KLA and MPRI/CIA bastards.
Thanks for all the info.
Dear Bube, the position that your people took on the streets during the bombing of 1999 filled me up with tears when I saw it on TV in Belgrade during the time. But it wasn't enough as we really needed you guys to help us out more in our time of need. Organising some "partizan like" actions againsts the bastards would have been of better value than demolishing a few embassies. This would have made it easier for us and given NATO one enormous logistical nightmare that would have increased our morale even further. If it wasn't for the large Serbian minority in the north of Macedonia I feel the protests would have been even more smaller. Regarding leaving you no weaponary, what did you expect - freebies ! If you wanted it , you should have paid for it and taken your portion of the national debt with you when you left the federation. You can't have your cake and eat it. The only reason why my boys gave you some weapons is that it is in our interests now that you fight these terrorists to stalemate so as to give us a break in Presevo for a time being. The longer you fight the better for us as we can treat you the same as you did to us 2 years ago. Regarding the M-84 tanks you allege we sent you - I doubt it very much, as I would have expected T-55's to compliment the ones you already have there. The reasoning is for logistical reasons such as spare parts and maintenance and training to use the new weaponary. Unless we are suppling the mechanics also. If you have proof please provide it as I'm very curious to these statements of yours.
I understand your point (post 96) kimosabe31, but if the Macedonians really wanted to help us they could have gone the extra step by throwing out their government during 1999 for "lying in bed with NATO". Organising partizan hit and run raids against NATO targets would have been better. Thank God for the large Serbian minority in the north of the country that was the lynchpin for most of the protests, because without them I doubt if any large scale protests would have occured. The Albanian expansionists and their NATO sponsers have to be defeated in this struggle because if they are not "Salidan" will be smiling in his grave as another Islamic crusade will be successful , not in the Middle East and Asia as he had done many hundreds of years ago but in the heart of Europe. God have mercy on the poor souls of Europe if this becomes reality.
"We should have encouraged the Ukrains to keep their nuke and point them at our enemies Russia and China."
So you think Russia is your enemy?
Look what USA is doing in Kosovo and Macedonia and tell me why would ANY country wanted to be friends with terrorists such as US?
"We should have encouraged the Ukrains to keep their nuke and point them at our enemies Russia and China."
Have you got facts that prove to the contrary? If so, I would like to hear them.
Oops I was replying to trinity5 in my previous post.
He wrote:
"They were totally honest and handed over or destroyed every single one.Yeah right."
Gajic...many thanks for taking time to reply to my questions. I am not located in the area over there, but in the "evil empire" USA where we have much experience (several 100 years to be exact)in deception, deceit and ethnic cleansing the american indian. I appreciate the views and insights of one such as yourself who is (or was) close to the scene of the crimes we are speaking of. Our diplomats and military are very skilled in methods of deceit and deception based on our Indian experiences and their application to fracturing relations between say Macedonians and Serbs for the purpose of deviding and conquering the individual groups separately. Very interesting how blatent and "undisguised" it is. Two years ago they (US/NATO) call upon Greece and Macedonia for logistical support in bringing down Yugoslavia. Now of course they rely on Greek logistical support and Yugoslav antagonism and indifferance while they de-stabilize and destroy Macedonia. They rely heavily on the "rigged" socialist government in Greece to keep the "lid" on things there until Macedonia is finished. The Greek government no more represents the Greek people than does the Macedonian gov represent the Macedonian people. I believe both are products of years of NWO engineered election fraud to keep fascists/socialists in power throughout Europe. If and when Macedonia falls, any bets on who will be next to experience NWO displeasure?? NWO will then find pretext to become angry at Greece, e.g., terrorist state, November 17, etc. The groundwork has already been prepared by the state dept and CIA during the clinton administration. Best thing for Serbs and Macedonians to do is band together at this point to defeat US/NATO. Recruit Christian mercenaries interested in eliminating "islam" throughout europe. As I believe you have suggested, strike into Albania. Target KLA (and "two-faced" NATO) leadership. A number of high profile assinations and bloody battlefield defeats will send them running out of the Balkans. I seriously doubt that GW Bush will lend the US Air Force to the KLA again like "s#$tbag" clinton did. After NATO is defeated, you guys (Serbs and Macedonians) can settle your differances...maybe fight another war between you (just kidding). Important thing at this point is to unite against the common enemy (the evil NWO), recruit mercenaries and exterminate the "malignancy" that is in your midst.
They rely heavily on the "rigged" socialist government in Greece to keep the "lid" on things there until Macedonia is finished.The Greek government no more represents the Greek people than does the Macedonian gov represent the Macedonian people.
Rigged? Have you ever thought that Greeks really like socialist governments that's why they have been voting for them for years? The same way French and Germans have been voting for socialist governments?
As for your suggestions on attacking in Albania or hire mercenaries, if you read Jane's defense, the Macedonian army is in really bad shape, untrained and unable to defend anything. As for the government, unfortunately they are too young and inexperienced.
Dear Kimosabe31 , I agree with you totally my friend. It sickens me when I see the NWO scream blue murder when one of their candidants loses an election that they supported. Look at the farce in Bosnia , where their opponents keep winning in the elections , so what do they do , ban them from taking office. The same applies to Peru,Ukraine & Croatia. If the opposition wins , its fraud. Then they send good old Jimmy Carter and his cronies to observe the next election - how funny. The problem in Serbia now is that the people were tricked into voting for the opposition who was massively supported by the west. They bankrolled them as they couldn't get rid of SLOBO any other way before. Western agents and spies have now reached the top echelons of the government and economy and it will prove to be impossible to kick them out. They have defeated the country from within and they will threaten us with more breakup (Vojvodina, Montenegro) if we are not submissive to their needs. The country will collapse in a heap if the promised aid money is not delivered quickly. The people are being taxed to their teeth and they won't be able to take it much longer. Bombing of the infrustructure and factories proved the killer blow to the countries workforce as with no money results in poverty to families. The only way to rescue themselves is to buy a few nukes from Russia to gain some respect and peace and quiet. Also have new elections and make sure that Kostunica has clear power by himself as he is about the only decent politician in the country. At the moment the man with the real power in the country is Djindic who is one hundred times worse than what SLOBO ever was.
"Rigged? Have you ever thought that Greeks really like socialist governments that's why they have been voting for them for years? The same way French and Germans have been voting for socialist governments?"
I have no doubt that many Greeks vote the socialist ticket. I also have no doubt that US/NWO agents are operating with PASOK to garantee a winning margin for the socialists thru vote fraud as they have been doing for over a hundred years in the United States. Sadly, the Greeks will probably learn about the treason of their socialist national leaders too late...selling out the interests of their own nation in exchange for a place at the NWO "feeding trough"
"As for your suggestions on attacking in Albania or hire mercenaries, if you read Jane's defense, the Macedonian army is in really bad shape, untrained and unable to defend anything."
They (Macedonians)did a pretty good job in Arcinovo (sp?) don't you think... killing about 700 of the narco-terrorist bastards and trapping another 500 along with their "quisling" US advisors requiring rescue by the 82nd airborne. Macedonian armys biggest problem is the Macedonian politicians many of whom are socialist traitors like their Greek counterparts and who keep agreeing to these foolish ceasefires designed to protect the terrorists.
By the way Soto, are you another one of these muslim bastards like Fusion??
I agree with you about Macedonian army and politicians. I have personally talked with members of special forces there. They told me that it would've taken them couple of days more but they would've killed all the mercenaries there. Don't forget that those scums there were probably tehe best UCK has including the MPRI advisers. There are plenty of expereinced reservists and officers in Macedonian Army that served in ex-JNA. Some of them including myself were fighting Albanains during Kosovo riots in 1981. Now with new weaponry and night vision on every tank installed by the Ukrainans I doubt that the Army can not defeat the terrorists. But I seriously doubt that is what the politician want. Sadly, they only care for their positions to remain intact. I think that Macedonia Army is maybe using different strategy now. Instead of frontal attack they stick to the cease fire but install some special forces in some areas that quietly do the dirty job. The report yesterday about the killings of five UCK commanders in Gostivar area seem to support my view.
"Instead of frontal attack they stick to the cease fire but install some special forces in some areas that quietly do the dirty job. The report yesterday about the killings of five UCK commanders in Gostivar area seem to support my view."
Thanks for your response Bube. Best news I've heard in a long time. Have you got a link or web address to the Gostivar report??
Yes I do. Read this. Macedonian Policeman Is Killed Foreign Affairs Front Page News Source: Associated Press Published: August 1 Author: MISHA SAVIC Posted on 08/01/2001 06:36:40 PDT by oxi-nato OHRID, Macedonia (AP) -- A Macedonian police officer died early Wednesday in a gun attack by ethnic Albanian rebels, while internationally mediated peace talks continued in an effort to end five months of conflict, state radio reported. On the outskirts of the tense and mostly ethnic Albanian-populated northwestern city of Tetovo, militants opened fire on a police checkpoint, killing an officer. It increased the death toll on the government side to 41 since clashes began in February, the radio said. In what appeared to be the worst blow to rebels' ranks so far, five senior officers of the ethnic Albanian National Liberation Army were killed on Sunday, said a statement from the rebels distributed to Albanian-language media in Macedonia Wednesday. The five were reportedly killed near the town of Gostivar in western Macedonia, where no recent clashes were reported. Among those killed was Tahir Sinani, a former regional leader of the now-disbanded Kosovo Liberation Army. The circumstances of their death remained unclear, and the Gostivar incident had not been previously reported in the state media. Meanwhile, negotiations between majority Macedonians and ethnic Albanian experts were under way at the southwestern lake resort of Ohrid. There were indications of some modest progress on meeting the demands of the sizable ethnic Albanian community for greater rights.
If you do have friends in the Macedonian Special forces then when are they going to finally wipe out these damn rebels or are your boys all talk and no action. I hope not, as these bastards are our common enemy also. It was a shame that you boys didn't listen to us when we were warning the world about them two years ago. If you have fought against the Albanians as you say you did in 1981 , then you should know a major weakness that my boys worked out in regards to them two years ago. You capture the head of the family (father) and the whole clan structure falls down in a heap as they will do anything to get him released. Liquidate the sons (just one of many tentactacles) and you achieve nothing as they are expendable in their eyes. Thats one reason they have many children so that if you lose one or more sons for the struggle their is always another to replace him. You take out their leaders and head clan members and you watch how easy it is to defeat these bastards. By the time we worked this out it was too late as NATO came to their rescue when the rebels were on their knees. Follow this strategy my friend and you will win.
I completely agree with you Master Gajic. I think this is excactly what the Macedonian Army is up to at the moment. But there is more. The dirty job (the killing of commanders and mercenaries) is given to Ukraine mercenaries who did everything overnight. They have been doing pretty nice jobs in the villages around Kumanovo. Reportedly they are armed with a big knife, scorpio gun and a wire (they still can't forget SS soldiers). They operate at night and clean some areas that are problematic. The Macedonian soldiers claim that after their return the wood is covered with blood. I think that is how the commander of Slupcane - Tyger was killed. Now it seems they have moved to another territory: Tetovo and Gostivar. So many things seem to be happening there although there is a cease fire. Actually the Albanians are now violating the cease fire quite evidently which infuriated the IC lately. The Macedonian Armay has taken low-profile position that NATO favors but that doesn't mean that they do nothing. Wait you'll see what will happen.
Yesterday 40 T-55 were returned from Ukraine with new night vision equipment. In addition 40 T-84 are in Army barracks although it was not reported in the media. Also yesterday 45 armoured vehicles were seen at the train station in Kumanovo all brand new coming from Ukraine. That's probably Ukrainan answer to Condie Rice.
Dear Bube, "Hvala bogu" , that your boys are on the silent offensive to rid Macedonia of the vermon that is infesting the region. Ukrainian & Russian mercenaries were also involved in the conflict in Kosovo and I know first hand how scary these boys are. They are real good and I have no doubt that it has struck the fear of life to these rebels. When I heard the news reports of those rebel leader deaths I knew that you boys have started to use the same tactics that the Serbs learnt near the end of our conflict. Those measures you are taking are the correct ones but to fully rid yourselves of the problem , you have to attack the source also. That means , working in tandem with the Serbs to get rid of the ring leaders in Kosovo and Albania itself. This includes , Ceku, Thaci , Rugova , Remi & all the head clan members who wield all the real power. Without doing this the problem will only reappear again like a malignant tumour when they get time to regroup again for their next offensive. Take the fight to them by giving them some of their own medicine and see them scatter like rabbits. I was sick in the stomach when I saw that war criminal "Solana" leave the peace meeting all happy and rosy that he has secured a peace agreement between the two sides. Well guess what, their will not be a ceasefire Mr Solana , it was only the Macedonians tring to make you happy so that you would leave the region and let them sort out the problem themselves without you supporting your proxies. If the Macedonians do actually agree to these terms , then you might as well give up now as this is only the beginning of taking more territory when they gain the upper hand. In regards to your tank upgrades and new tanks that is great news but they won't be needed in your fight with these rebels as the most of the fighting is in the confined spaces of the hills and villages. Small units of special forces are your best assets in your fight against them as per what you are doing now with these Ukrainian forces. Spend your money on these boys as the money invested on only one tank can train and equip a squad or more of these special forces that will solve your problem. Keep your tanks for the open terrain only and use them as mobile artillery pieces to support your ground troops. Another piece of hardware that terrifies these bastards is the M53 Praga 2 X 30mm. Get some of these rugged ,innocent looking but cheap AA units to use against their dug in troops as it destroys bunkers and hardpoints quite easily. It was funny to see them run when we wheeled some of these beasts to use against them in Kosovo. The damage these 30mm shells cause is awresome and scares the living daylights out of the rebels. Trust me on this ! Please update me on the latest events happening in Macedonia as I really have a great interest in it. I'll send you my private e-mail through private reply>
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