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Homosexual Teacher Trying to Hide What She Told Students at Fistgate

Crime/Corruption News Keywords: NEW BUTT ORDER (NBO) ALERT
Source: The Massachusetts News
Published: July 30, 2001 Author: Ed Oliver
Posted on 07/30/2001 07:55:28 PDT by Buffalo Bob

The lawyers for the homosexual teacher who sued two parents for revealing what happened at Fistgate in March 2000 are trying to hide what really did occur at the scandal.

They asked the judge last Friday at a preliminary hearing in Boston’s Suffolk Superior Court to limit what questions can be asked of the teacher by the defendant parents, Brian Camenker and Scott Whiteman.

The plaintiff’s lawyer, Bennett Klein of GLAD (Gay & Lesbian Advocates & Defenders), told Judge Judith Fabricant that his client has only one narrow claim, that the secret taping by the parents violated the Massachusetts wiretap law. He said that because of the narrowness of her complaint, the content of the tapes should not be discussed. “The legislature intended that all secret recording should be prohibited,” said Klein, adding that the content of the workshop is “not relevant.”

But Camenker’s attorney, Robert Roughsedge, told the judge “They’re doing everything they can to keep this information from getting out.” Roughsedge cited a recent United States Supreme Court ruling that said there is a First Amendment right to distribute an illegally obtained recording if it is in the public interest. He said the Massachusetts wiretap statute does not trump the First Amendment.

Regarding GLAD’s attempt to quash any discovery of what went on at Fistgate, Roughsedge said every Supreme Court First Amendment decision is based on the facts as they bear on the defendant’s actions. He said he couldn’t see how the court could say at this point that the defendants do not deserve to have any discovery that may lead to a defense.

Atty. Roughsedge pointed out, “It is a crime in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to encourage minors that were in attendance at this conference to conduct the sexual acts that they actually were enticed and encouraged to conduct. That’s a crime; You can’t avoid it.”

Atty. Darling Says Reporting ‘Child Abuse’ Is Not a Crime

Scott Whiteman, the parent who actually recorded the session, was represented by Chester Darling. It is not contested that Whiteman taped the session, but Darling argued that his whole defense would be wiped out by prohibiting discovery about what was said at the workshop. Whiteman’s defense is based on the doctrine of “necessity and justification” and argues that a person reporting child abuse shall not be liable for such a report.

The necessity defense justifies conduct which is criminal on its face, but which promotes some value higher than the value of literal compliance with the law. It is based on the theory that sometimes the greater good for society will be accomplished by violating the literal language of the law.

Darling said Whiteman’s motivation for taping the sex workshop was to gather proof of systematic child abuse with the purpose of putting an end to it. He said nobody would believe Whiteman and the Parents Rights Coalition when they tried to report to authorities what was being taught to children by state-sponsored gay activists.

He argued that the Dept. of Education and gay activists such as the plaintiff, Julie Netherland, were exposing the children to unsafe sex practices at the workshop, such as sadomasochism, and giving the youngsters other harmful advice. He said that constitutes child abuse and the parents want it stopped.

“Fourteen year-old children don’t have the ability to come to some sort of agreement where they won’t tell anyone [about what was discussed at the workshop]”, said Darling. “This is the profile of a pedophile. The Commonwealth is a pedophile is what emerges from this sad, nasty set of facts. These children were told by this plaintiff and others, that ‘we are going to keep whatever happens in this room a secret.’ They then proceeded to show those children a better technique for ‘fisting,’ which is thrusting one’s arm up another person’s rectum or vagina.”

Attorney Klein responded that Whiteman cannot come close to meeting the threshold requirement of the necessity defense. He said Whiteman admitted in his deposition that he was not trying to prevent a crime from being committed against the 30 children in the room but was trying to protect all Massachusetts children in the future. Klein said the state SJC has ruled that trying to prevent future harm does not excuse a current violation of the law that was committed in anticipation of the eventual over-all benefit to the public. There must be a threat of “imminent harm,” he said.

Darling says it is still to be decided whether the workshop was illegally recorded. Mr.Whiteman paid admission, he said, and should have been able to record the state-sponsored seminar that was open to the public.

Another Suit in Cambridge

There is another suit over the same issues filed in the Middlesex County Court in Cambridge by another lesbian instructor, Margot Abels, who participated in the same graphic sex workshop and was subsequently fired along with Julie Netherland after it became public.

She has also joined David Driscoll, Commissioner of the state’s Department of Education as a defendant because she says the state gave prior approval to everything she did at Fistgate.

She claims she was also promised on March 12, 2000, that she would receive 11 ¼ hours compensatory time for her participation at the March 25 event. She says that on the Monday after the conference was held, she sent a list of the questions that had been asked by the students to her supervisors. However, the officials at the Department of Education have maintained that she and other state employees were operating entirely on their own.

Camenker has repeatedly said, “I believe Abels, absolutely. She is being used as a scapegoat, there’s no question about it. For them to claim this was an isolated incident is completely disingenuous.”

He says that the Governor’s office is well aware of what was happening because he has personally told them. “Bill Weld decided when he beat John Silber in that close race that he was successful only because of the help and money given to him by homosexual activists. Therefore, he repaid those activists by allowing them access to our public schools and even giving them the money to indoctrinate our kids.”

The second suit is forcing the parents to defend themselves in another court.

“This suit is obviously not an attempt to seek justice in the case,” said Atty. Darling.. “It is merely an attempt by the GLSEN crowd to harass Brian Camenker and Scott Whiteman and to have them running all over the state defending themselves. It is also blatant forum-shopping because these people want to hold the trial in a town that has many liberals. They hope it will be impossible for us to obtain a fair trial there. The main defendant in this case is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts whose offices are in Boston. My clients were included only to harass them even more and to give credibility to the filing of the suit in Cambridge.”

The Abels suit seeks: 1) Reinstatement of Abels to her job, 2) damages for lost wages, 3) compensatory damages including those for emotional distress, 4) punitive damages, and 5) attorney fees.


The Sodomites want access to your children and grandchildren. Fight them now with every legal means available and stop this madness in its tracks.

Waiting until later will predicate measures only a fool wants, and a loonatic enjoys.

1 Posted on 07/30/2001 07:55:28 PDT by Buffalo Bob
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To: Buffalo Bob

Disgusting people - even when they aren't trying to use the schools to troll or the courts to legitimize their behavior.

2 Posted on 07/30/2001 08:00:52 PDT by mgc1122
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To: Buffalo Bob

This is why schools should not have any sex education classes. Leave it up to Mom and Dad.

3 Posted on 07/30/2001 08:02:32 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: Buffalo Bob

Tell me the name of this school is a joke you made up....

4 Posted on 07/30/2001 08:06:29 PDT by Cyber Liberty
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To: Buffalo Bob

This is yet another reason for homeschooling.

5 Posted on 07/30/2001 08:08:06 PDT by ShadowAce
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To: Buffalo Bob

I'm speechless.

These perverts commit a crime by showing MINOR CHILDREN pornographic material, and when caught ON TAPE think they have a right to have that EVIDENCE against them thrown out?

There is only one reason to operate so "covertly" here folks. When you shine the light of TRUTH on this perverted agenda, America's Parents will be outraged.

6 Posted on 07/30/2001 08:08:59 PDT by usconservative
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To: usconservative

There IS no justice in America. It's run by perverts! (except for Bush, of course)

7 Posted on 07/30/2001 08:19:33 PDT by Marysecretary
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To: Buffalo Bob

May the GLSEN reps be "fisted" with a Stature of Liberty sized hand.

8 Posted on 07/30/2001 08:19:48 PDT by wattsmag2
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To: Buffalo Bob

Sadly, Americans will not make the necessary connection to understand why the criminal enterprise democrat party works so hard to get activist judges on the bench! The 'in your face' sodomites (and several other socialist types) would be back in private with their deviancies if the democrats had not succeeded in appointing to the benches of various jurisdictions judges who are compliant with the sodomite/lieberal/societal engineering agenda. Kennedy and Franks are from this deviancy embracing state.

That judges such as Blackmon are probably rotting in hell means nothing to people for whom God and morality are ambiguities waiting to be exploited. Sodomites will swear they do not want to recruit the young people--often pleading they wish only to help confused homosexuals come out, to feel better about themselves--but they know their power dwindles if society begins to rein in their excessive show of deviancy which they calim is normal for their segment of socity ... deviancy has always been with society, but it need not be tolerated as merely an alternate way of sustaining personal interactions for sexual hedonism.

The destroyers of civilization will continue their campaign as long as the criminal enterprise protects their interests and sustains their legitimacy. It is no accident that the PC approach seeks first to force tolerance, then force an embrace of their deviancy from traditions of moral society. Our love of law and order is used against US; our desire for peace in tolerant co-existence is counted our weakness by those who desire mutation of fundamental ideals.

That America will go beyond tolerance for soul sickness, to protect its viability at the expense of the children of America, is the most frightening aspect in this epoch of confrontation with deviancy. If you hadn't noticed, the deviants are winning their objectives, taking what they lust for, mutating this Republic. It is not by accident that fundamentalist societies like Iran name US the great satan. We are, to them perhaps, the great whore, babylon the great to many eyes ... they may be right.

9 Posted on 07/30/2001 08:28:18 PDT by MHGinTN
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To: Buffalo Bob

The Commonwealth is a pedophile is what emerges from this sad, nasty set of facts. These children were told by this plaintiff and others, that ‘we are going to keep whatever happens in this room a secret.’ They then proceeded to show those children a better technique for ‘fisting,’ which is thrusting one’s arm up another person’s rectum or vagina.”

Sweet Home, Massachusetts.

The bad news: the Glob and Herald wouldn't print the transcript anyway. They'll write something like, "Christian parents criticize a controversial gay/lesbian course."

The worse news: the parents wouldn't care even if they Glob and Herald printed the transcript.

10 Posted on 07/30/2001 08:29:27 PDT by Aquinasfan
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To: Buffalo Bob

The Sodomites want access to your children and grandchildren. Fight them now with every legal means available and stop this madness in its tracks.

Waiting until later will predicate measures only a fool wants, and a loonatic enjoys.

Massachusetts is a Sodomites' haven. We have one congressman whose male prostitute tried to set up a brothel from the congressman's apartment. That congressman, Barney Frank, was re elected and seems to have a permanent seat in congress.

We have another (ex) congressman named Garry Studds. He got a male page drunk and molested him. He retired with a nice congressional pension.

G-d help us!

p.s. Sodomy is illegal in Massachusetts too. Go figure.

11 Posted on 07/30/2001 08:37:44 PDT by UbIwerks
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To: Buffalo Bob

The parents should have gotten a grandma like me to take that video. I'd gladly go to jail and become a martyr to advance publicizing these videos and exposing this abuse of our kids.

12 Posted on 07/30/2001 08:44:51 PDT by WaterDragon
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To: Aquinasfan

Sweet Home, Massachusetts.

The bad news: the Glob and Herald wouldn't print the transcript anyway. They'll write something like, "Christian parents criticize a controversial gay/lesbian course."

The worse news: the parents wouldn't care even if they Glob and Herald printed the transcript.

In fairness to the Boston Herald, its columnist, Don Feder, wrote about the persecution of Brian Carmaker and Dr. Laura (anoher Herald columnist, Margery Eagen, did an attack on Carmaker).

In describing Brian Carmaker and Dr. Laura, Don Feder paraphrased Pastor Neimoller in saying "First they came for Dr. Laura and Brian Carmaker...."

13 Posted on 07/30/2001 08:48:21 PDT by UbIwerks
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To: WaterDragon,hollywood,harpseal,marshmallow,Kevin Curry,Sakic

It's not even a video, just an audio cassette recording!

Taken at a public, state sponsored forum, which the pedophile defenders want to keep secret!

HOMOS CAN'T REPRODUCE: THEY SEDUCE AND RECRUIT!

14 Posted on 07/30/2001 09:04:19 PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee

Obviously

15 Posted on 07/30/2001 09:11:40 PDT by t-shirt
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To: Travis McGee

Lets see now the US Supreme Court has ruled that even things that are recorded illegally can be published yet the Massachusettes Courts engage in prior restraint against the publication of these transcripts. They seem to think because they are homosexual they are above the law.

I agree with your comments about hamosexuals needing to seduce and recruit. No one knows why homosexuals become homosexual and no one knows why some change and others do not. Many have theories but I really do not give a ra's butt the abuse of children is the crime and the punishment should be capital.

Stay well - Yorktown

16 Posted on 07/30/2001 09:15:35 PDT by harpseal
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To: harpseal

Homochusetts is a lost cause I think.

17 Posted on 07/30/2001 09:18:30 PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Buffalo Bob

There is no justice in Massachusetts for fathers or men.

18 Posted on 07/30/2001 09:25:24 PDT by Diogenesis
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To: All-American Medic

Deny deny deny.

19 Posted on 07/30/2001 09:25:52 PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Buffalo Bob

The "teachers" deserve another kind of "fisting".

20 Posted on 07/30/2001 09:30:02 PDT by Texaggie79
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To: Travis McGee

deny what?? My point is the only person who should teach kids about sex is their mother or father according to their values and standards..

21 Posted on 07/30/2001 09:30:41 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: Buffalo Bob

NEW BUTT ORDER (NBO)

LMAO!!!

22 Posted on 07/30/2001 09:30:48 PDT by Texaggie79
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To: All-American Medic

Agreed.

23 Posted on 07/30/2001 09:35:18 PDT by Travis McGee
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To: All-American Medic

What we should do is kick the homosexual's out of our schools, as parents, we shouldn,t even want them around our children. The Bible says (Romans 1:28) that GOD gave them over to a reprobate mind (depraved, wicked), do we want these people in or even around our schools??? I think not.

25 Posted on 07/30/2001 09:56:28 PDT by RIGHTIE
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To: RIGHTIE

Question.... What if you arent a christian....maybe an atheist and the bible is not your values foundation....That is why the religious right is full of crap...You want the government out...unless it is a right wing government and then you want everyone to march in lockstep with your agenda.

26 Posted on 07/30/2001 09:59:17 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: TXnMA

Those perverts deserve to be shot with something considerably more potent than a video camera!

Agreed. These people are vile pedophiles whose only way to increase their numbers is to recruit from the every popular pool of students in public schools. What they are doing is illegal and immoral. I hope the parents win, and then blast the information from the highest building they can find.

27 Posted on 07/30/2001 10:09:04 PDT by RikaStrom
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To: All-American Medic

Question.... What if you arent a christian....maybe an atheist and the bible is not your values foundation....That is why the religious right is full of crap...You want the government out...unless it is a right wing government and then you want everyone to march in lockstep with your agenda.

Maybe you would like your two sons to learn (in school) how to 'fist' other males' rectums???

28 Posted on 07/30/2001 10:17:37 PDT by SunStar
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To: All-American Medic

Hey; I don't care if you are an atheist, Christian or the devil himself, THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD and He is right, He will always be right and what He says goes, whether you or anyone else has a different set of values or not. He created you and gave you a how to live book (The Bible), if I were you I'd read it,then you can know the truth and the truth you know will set you free.

29 Posted on 07/30/2001 10:24:27 PDT by RIGHTIE
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To: SunStar

No..if you would read my previous posts...You would see that I advocate that their would be NO sex education in public schools and that it should be left up to mom and dad....Where I differ with the religious right is when mom and dad may have no problem with the gay lifestyle and teach their kids this philosphy...Then realistically that is a family issue and no more should be said about it.

30 Posted on 07/30/2001 10:26:05 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: RIGHTIE

In your opinion....The bible has been used to justify some pretty horrific things..ie slavery and the inquisition....That said you have the right to your belief and I mine.....just dont make your belief law and expect me to fall in line.

31 Posted on 07/30/2001 10:28:14 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: All-American Medic

The Bible shows us that GOD Abhors slavery...the children of Isreal were slaves to the Egyptians for four hundred years, and GOD parted the Red Sea so they could be free from the bondage of slavery. Jesus said I have come to set the captives free (that encludes the homosexual's) read the book it will change your life, and set you free.

32 Posted on 07/30/2001 10:49:26 PDT by RIGHTIE
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To: All-American Medic

Well, then I agree with you completely.

My only beef with the "homosexual community" is that they are currently teaching and recruiting minor children into homosexuality.

Adults doing what they please? That's what I am for. But let's teach the Three R's in school instead of how to be gay.

33 Posted on 07/30/2001 11:41:07 PDT by SunStar
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To: All-American Medic

"...just dont make your belief law and expect me to fall in line."

On its face, that is about one of the stupidest remarks I've seen in a while. Some folks believe that murder is wrong, others believe that stealing is wrong, and still others believe that rape, sodomy, incest, lying, etc, etc...

34 Posted on 07/30/2001 11:41:25 PDT by semaj
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To: Buffalo Bob

It's a sad day when our courts have to discuss what to do in this situation. Our fathers and grandfathers would've known what to do.

36 Posted on 07/30/2001 11:52:54 PDT by babylonian
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To: RIGHTIE

The Bible shows us that GOD Abhors slavery

Bull. Not only does God approve of slavery, he says it's okay to murder your slaves:

“And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money” (Exodus 21:20-21).

37 Posted on 07/30/2001 13:18:49 PDT by sakic
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To: sakic

Music Intro : "HERE HE COMES TO THAVE THE DAY!"

38 Posted on 07/30/2001 13:21:43 PDT by Registered
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To: All-American Medic

Any class that teaches human sexuality and mores should be attended by both parents and their child together. If parents want to opt out,they should always be deferred to. Fully informed parental consent and attendance would end this abuse right at its root. And if your school allows the likes of Planned Parenthood and Gays in, get your children out!!!!

39 Posted on 07/30/2001 13:30:53 PDT by victim soul
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To: RIGHTIE

Hey; I don't care if you are an atheist, Christian or the devil himself, THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD and He is right, He will always be right and what He says goes, whether you or anyone else has a different set of values or not. He created you and gave you a how to live book (The Bible), if I were you I'd read it,then you can know the truth and the truth you know will set you free.

True. The same is said in other scriptures as well, [sexual downfalls and all...] e.g. Bhagavad Gita, translated by Paramahansa Yogananda. Worth reading.
We might stop dividing religion to shreds.


Henry David Thoreau puts it this way:
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root."

40 Posted on 07/30/2001 13:49:58 PDT by Getting there
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To: semaj

Apparently you havent read any of my previous posts with the exception of the one you quote....I feel adults should be able to do what they want and live their lives until they infringe upon the rights of another or hurt someone else. What I meant by "your belief" is reflected strictly on certain "christian" groups who want to censor the media and tell me who I can and cannot sleep with....obviously rape, murder, kidnapping etc.. are a direct violation of anothers civil rights and should not be tolerated.

41 Posted on 07/30/2001 14:45:34 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: Texaggie79

Sound the Alarm. They are violating these Normal Homosexuals Rights to promote and teach about all the perversions in the Homosexual, errr Normal SEX Commune(ity).

Ve must have order,
CATO

42 Posted on 07/30/2001 14:50:09 PDT by Cato
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To: RIGHTIE

What the bible says and what men who preach the bible say are two different things....I know Jesus was against slavery and all injustice for that matter, for he was a truly great man..What im simply saying is that there were ministers and priests in the south during the civil war, making speeches supposedly stating how the bible proved slavery was right. and also during the civil rights struggle there were also people who said the bible was against integration.

43 Posted on 07/30/2001 14:50:12 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: SunStar

I agree completely.

44 Posted on 07/30/2001 14:51:21 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: Registered

Are you a slave or are you currently a slave owner?

45 Posted on 07/30/2001 15:10:55 PDT by sakic
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To: Cato

No I say ban their deviant @$$e$, too bad they aren't pedophiles or you would be defending them.

46 Posted on 07/30/2001 15:24:55 PDT by Texaggie79
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To: Texaggie79

Your lies are so pitiful.

IF you can't even debate without telling transparent lies then
you are intellectually backrupt along with morally corrupt.

Jesus says He never knew you,
CATO

47 Posted on 07/30/2001 15:35:29 PDT by Cato
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To: MHGinTN

Excellent analysis on reply #9. You ought to quit your day job and begin writing editorials!

48 Posted on 07/30/2001 15:36:59 PDT by Buffalo Bob
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To: Cato

Transparent are they? Have you changed your mind and joined me in legally condemning the sale and exchange of pedophile literature?

49 Posted on 07/30/2001 15:38:28 PDT by Texaggie79
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To: victim soul

These kind of stories reveal the true evil and sick nature of homosexuals. I wish more people were aware of what these degenerates try to get away with and preach to kids in private. I would NEVER let a homosexual near my kids. What happened to our society where we are now letting these sickos teach in our schools? Isn't it common sense that a homosexual is no role model for youth and has no business being around underage people?

50 Posted on 07/30/2001 15:41:08 PDT by ReaganRealm
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To: Texaggie79

>>The "teachers" deserve another kind of "fisting".<<

Bro, I have got one OUTSTANDING idea for this year's A&M Bonfire!! bet ya kin guess...LOL

51 Posted on 07/30/2001 15:41:15 PDT by Buffalo Bob
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To: Texaggie79

Have you changed your mind and joined me in legally condemning the sale and exchange of pedophile literature?

I have never made any such comments one way or another as concerns this, you lying POS.

Post any proof that have that says otherwise.

No Liar will ever enter Heaven, so it appears you may be going to Hell,
CATO

52 Posted on 07/30/2001 15:41:33 PDT by Cato
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To: Buffalo Bob

"They then proceeded to show those children a better technique for ‘fisting,’ which is thrusting one’s arm up another person’s" whatever.
Better than what?

53 Posted on 07/30/2001 15:42:29 PDT by humblegunner
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To: Cato

If moments of towering pride were the criterion, I'd have to say that holds for you in spades.

I went to the Cato institute and found they were for the most part surprisingly clueless. I frankly was disappointed, since an excellent case can be made for some points of what we call "libertarianism." But try to swallow it lock stock and barrel and you become duuuuuuuuuuuumb.

54 Posted on 07/30/2001 15:50:44 PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Cato

I have never made any such comments one way or another as concerns this

I think it's high time you did.

55 Posted on 07/30/2001 15:52:00 PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: HiTech RedNeck

The sale, production, and distribution of Child Porn should be banned at the State and Federal level. I am sure I have said this before but I say it again.

CATO

56 Posted on 07/30/2001 15:57:42 PDT by Cato
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To: HiTech RedNeck

TA79 is telling lies so you may believe him if you desire.

CATO

57 Posted on 07/30/2001 15:59:00 PDT by Cato
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I care not what you think of the Cato Institute.

My name did NOT come from them and to reference me to the Cato Institute
as some litmus test of consistency is DUMB!!!!!

Can you understand that???

CATO

58 Posted on 07/30/2001 16:02:48 PDT by Cato
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To: sakic

Ho Hum. Old covenant, new covenant. No difference to see here folks. Move right along.

59 Posted on 07/30/2001 16:05:29 PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Cato

Makes about as much sense as to assume my name came from an accident with a can of red paint and a computer I was balancing on my neck.

60 Posted on 07/30/2001 16:06:28 PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: babylonian

It's a sad day when our courts have to discuss what to do in this situation. Our fathers and grandfathers would've known what to do.

And some day, soon I hope, maybe we will too!

Molon Labe!

61 Posted on 07/30/2001 16:10:23 PDT by 11Bush
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To: Aquinasfan

The bad news: the Glob and Herald wouldn't print the transcript anyway. They'll write something like, "Christian parents criticize a controversial gay/lesbian course."

They won't even do that. I guarantee thet you will never see anything about this in those papers. I have been sending this story along to our local paper here in Western Mass. "The Berkshire Eagle" is a very liberal rag, and they have been ignoring completely.

62 Posted on 07/30/2001 16:18:38 PDT by morque2001
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To: All-American Medic

Question.... What if you arent a christian....maybe an atheist and the bible is not your values foundation....That is why the religious right is full of crap...You want the government out...unless it is a right wing government and then you want everyone to march in lockstep with your agenda.

Oh, where to begin... Objecting to inappropriate content distributed to children is not a Christian issue. It is a parental issue. I am a Christian. I assure you I don't advocate the spreading of my religious views through public education. I also assure you that I don't want anyone else spreading their opinions on sensitive private issues like sexual behavior in any public arena.

As for the going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket state of public education in this country: We've voted through our actions. We homeschool.

63 Posted on 07/30/2001 16:25:08 PDT by TontoKowalski
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To: All-American Medic

Question.... What if you arent a christian....maybe an atheist and the bible is not your values foundation....That is why the religious right is full of crap...You want the government out...unless it is a right wing government and then you want everyone to march in lockstep with your agenda.

Would you be saying this if it was a Catholic priest teaching this class in this manner? No you wouldn't. You would be all over him like a $2 suit. You and others like yourself would be out in the streets condemming Catholisism, Christianity and all priests for breaking laws like " Corrupting the morals of a minor." Well since these liberals pieces of S**t have done exactly that, we will see justice done.

Corrupting the morals of a minor is AGAINST THE LAW, irregardless of who does it. The fact of the matter is, the SAD (nothing Gay about them) community is doing this on a routine basis. The rest of us are tired of this deviant behavior, and it is going to come to a stop. Whether YOU like it or not.

64 Posted on 07/30/2001 16:28:54 PDT by morque2001
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To: All-American Medic

Actually, after reading your follow-on post, it appears that we agree on the issue, more than disagree.

65 Posted on 07/30/2001 16:30:12 PDT by TontoKowalski
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To: HiTech RedNeck

It is odd how some parts of the Bible are to be treated literally and other parts aren't, depending on one's point of view and agenda.

66 Posted on 07/30/2001 16:36:38 PDT by sakic
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To: sakic

This is not such a case. This is history. Old covenant. New covenant. Nothing to see here folks. Move right along.

67 Posted on 07/30/2001 16:40:18 PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: HiTech RedNeck

So you got that redneck from a can of paint. Afraid of the Sun?

CATO

68 Posted on 07/30/2001 17:08:58 PDT by Cato
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To: Cato

*snarf* *snarf* *snarf*

69 Posted on 07/30/2001 17:14:50 PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Registered

>>>Music Intro : "HERE HE COMES TO THAVE THE DAY!"<<<

LOL!

70 Posted on 07/30/2001 18:06:48 PDT by FormerLib
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To: morque2001

You are quite wrong....I am a catholic.....But you cannot impose your religious beliefs on everyone else..Just like no one has the right to impose their humanist or gay rights agenda on your children...If you read my earlier post, you will see that I advocate only the parents giving sexual education to their own children. As far as your statement about...."stopping it...whether you like it or not." What you teach your children is your business..How do you intend to force other parents to stop teaching their children their values?? At the point of a gun?? See that kind of rhetoric is scary. What if you having loving parents who are non-believers and teach their children that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality?? whether you and I disagree or agree that is that parents right to do so. If the child chooses a different set of beliefs and values when they are old enough to make those decisions that is up to that individual.

71 Posted on 07/30/2001 19:33:47 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: All-American Medic

See that kind of rhetoric is scary. What if you having loving parents who are non-believers and teach their children that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality?? whether you and I disagree or agree that is that parents right to do so. If the child chooses a different set of beliefs and values when they are old enough to make those decisions that is up to that individual.

That analogy doesn't work. Just look at the Cheney's. They brought their daughter up with family values and the Christian morality that homosexuality is a sin. Yet lesbian teachers in the public school system recruited her and most likely molested her. No matter what religion you belong to or even if you are atheist, perverted homosexual discussions have no place around impressionable youth. No parent wants their child to be recruited into that lifestyle. The best safeguard is to emphasize to them again and again how gays are sick and poor role models.

72 Posted on 07/30/2001 20:07:21 PDT by RegalEagle
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To: RegalEagle

"That analogy doesn't work. Just look at the Cheney's. They brought their daughter up with family values and the Christian morality that homosexuality is a sin. Yet lesbian teachers in the public school system recruited her and most likely molested her." And let me guess..you were in the Cheney's living room when they had their family values chats?? also I highly doubt Mary Cheney went to public school....As far as the lesbian teachers comment....You show your intelligence with that remark...I see no reason to comment further on it.

73 Posted on 07/30/2001 21:23:09 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: All-American Medic

I see no reason to comment further on it.

Thank you for not further sharing your gross ignorance with us.

Now go back to salon.com and join your fellow liberal mental masturbators in that amoral pigsty.

74 Posted on 07/30/2001 21:29:10 PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: All-American Medic

"That is why the religious right is full of crap...You want the government out...unless it is a right wing government and then you want everyone to march in lockstep with your agenda."

Are you saying you approve of the homosexual/lesbian agenda?

75 Posted on 07/30/2001 21:33:07 PDT by Myers
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To: Kevin Curry

You must be completely stupid or cannot read..Im not a liberal, Im a libertarian and my main thrust of argument through this entire thread has been that it is THE PARENT who should be teaching their children about sex and sexuality not the school system.

76 Posted on 07/30/2001 21:41:11 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: Myers

Not at all...but I also do not believe that the govt has any business telling you what you can or cannot teach your children within reason, depending on your value system. I feel that consenting adults should be able to conduct themselves in the privacy of their own bedroom however they wish. They should keep sexuality in the bedroom where it belongs...BUT I also dont feel as some do here that homosexuals are less than human and should be thrown out of the public arena.

77 Posted on 07/30/2001 21:44:33 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: Kevin Curry

Also Regal Eagle was making comments on what the Cheney's taught their daughter...Knowledge which he/she could not possibly have had unless they were in the room with the Cheney's when they were discussing sexuality with their daughters. And then states without any proof or evidence that Mary Cheney is gay because she was molested by a lesbian public school teacher...that does not strike you as a little off the wall?

78 Posted on 07/30/2001 21:47:23 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: All-American Medic

Homosexuals are not less than human. They should not be thrown out of the public arena ... unless they try to foist their deviancy upon the public arena with their in-you-face deviancy, then they should be dealt with as one ought deal with the deviants from the societal safety norms, quarantine them until they exhibit no further symptoms. How's that for a medical solution? Tolerance need not be extended to the point of infecting the body. Society, as a body, is not actually obliged to toelrate deviancy to the point of infecting our children. Is that a little clearer?

79 Posted on 07/30/2001 21:58:52 PDT by MHGinTN
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To: MHGinTN

"quarantine them until they exhibit no further symptoms" Ok so now they arent American citizens with the right to pursue happiness, they need to be locked away until they can be "cured".....Wow this is orwellian...Once again the conservatives showing that they do not stand for their own principles.

80 Posted on 07/30/2001 22:02:20 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: All-American Medic

Watch it now ... I didn't say all homosexuals, I applied the notion to the ones trying to infect society, like the thing teaching fisting classes, or the ones sodomizing young people ... yes pedophiles too, not just homosexuals. Deviancy is a disease and ought be treated as such for the safety of the general welfare. If a deviant is not showing symptoms, they are not contagious or dangerous, at least not openly contagious. There, now isn't that easier to understand?

Here's another clue: I happen to be a fan of Andrew Sullivan, he's a great writer, but the contagion of deviancy is threatening to cut his vluable life short. Is that what we want for other bright and talented young people? I don't ... it pisses me off that Andrew has HIV. It pisses me off that deviancy is likely to claim his life too soon. I don't ike that. I think society has a right to set limts of illness that they will not tolerate going beyond. Would such have saved Andrew? God, I want to believe it could have. I don't like the threat inherent in deviancy, and I sure don't want children exposed to the sickness overtly ... why try to spread a disease?

81 Posted on 07/30/2001 22:10:50 PDT by MHGinTN
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To: MHGinTN

I specifically stated several times almost ad nausem through this entire thread, that it is my firm belief that only parents should be teaching their kids sexual education...but I keep getting attacked as the water carrier for the gay rights movement. In my personal opinion homosexuality is gross and I dont understand it. But I dont feel that gays deserve any less happiness in life than straight people do. What im simply stating is that the religious conservatives seem to be sending mixed messages here...On one hand they say "Dont force your gay loving agenda on me and my kids." but then turn around and say.."You dont have the right to teach your children that homosexuality is ok if that is your belief and you are evil.." What bothers me is the rank hypocrisy of that position.

82 Posted on 07/30/2001 22:24:48 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: Buffalo Bob

I would say that the parents are showing great restraint in just filing a lawsuit, if my daughter or son were in that group I would be pulling people out into the streets by thier hair and playing that tape over a 1000 watt PA system and let the mob rule !

83 Posted on 07/30/2001 22:40:32 PDT by WileyCoyote22
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To: RegalEagle

They brought their daughter up with family values and the Christian morality that homosexuality is a sin. Yet lesbian teachers in the public school system recruited her and most likely molested her.

I like sci-fi too.

84 Posted on 07/31/2001 04:15:11 PDT by sakic
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To: All-American Medic

..How do you intend to force other parents to stop teaching their children their values?? At the point of a gun??

First I will apologize for not noticing your name at the bottom of your previous posts. That said,. this is not about what Parents are teaching their children. It is about what TEACHERS are teaching our children. This is blatantly wrong, and as far as I am concerned, IT IS CORRUPTING THE MORALS OF MINORS. It is wrong, period. It is against the law, period. When laws are broken, you are arrested and made to answer the charges at the point of a gun. Not my gun, the one that the police are holding. If the police and the courts do not uphold these laws, then we have a BIG problem.

85 Posted on 07/31/2001 05:37:53 PDT by morque2001
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To: Buffalo Bob, diago

He says that the Governor’s office is well aware of what was happening because he has personally told them. “Bill Weld decided when he beat John Silber in that close race that he was successful only because of the help and money given to him by homosexual activists. Therefore, he repaid those activists by allowing them access to our public schools and even giving them the money to indoctrinate our kids.”

Weld started the policy. The occurrence of Fistgate I and Fistgate II obviously shows that Celucci continued the policy. Question: where does current governor Swift stand on this?

86 Posted on 07/31/2001 06:22:11 PDT by aristeides (demosthenes@olg.com)
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To: morque2001

"First I will apologize for not noticing your name at the bottom of your previous posts. That said,. this is not about what Parents are teaching their children. It is about what TEACHERS are teaching our children. This is blatantly wrong, and as far as I am concerned, IT IS CORRUPTING THE MORALS OF MINORS." Which has been exactly my point all along, It should be a parental task to teach sex ed. to their own kids not the schools.

87 Posted on 07/31/2001 06:48:52 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: All-American Medic

Ever heard of Multiple Personality Disorder? Rarely caused by anything other than sexual abuse. Ever heard of bipolar disorder epidemic? Mostly caused by sexual abuse. If you sit down and talk with most psyche pts. you'll find at the root of most of their problems is sexual abuse in their youth.

Billions of dollars is the cost for this nation to treat the fallout from pedophiles...not to mention the lost "life not lived", tragic suicides, dysfunctional parents or spouses, low productive workers...

Benjamin Franklin said no nation can be free without faith in God because the populace will soon need a despot to contol them. Do you believe in freedom All-American Medic(??) Atheism is invariably an angry reaction to God or christians not evidence. Don't blame you for being angry at christians but if you're angry at God it is probably because you don't know much about Him... He's cool.

88 Posted on 07/31/2001 07:49:33 PDT by armourup
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To: armourup

"Ever heard of Multiple Personality Disorder? Rarely caused by anything other than sexual abuse. Ever heard of bipolar disorder epidemic? Mostly caused by sexual abuse. If you sit down and talk with most psyche pts. you'll find at the root of most of their problems is sexual abuse in their youth." What are you talking about!!! How does my advocacy of parents teaching their own kids sexual education and not the school..lead into sexual abuse?? Also dont preach to me about god, I have a relationship with god and know my god quite well since I pray to him every night..That is my religious belief and I live my life that way, but dont tell others how to live theirs. Why is it you assume only fundmentalist christians really know god?? What im saying is it is not the govt.'s job to tell adults how to live their lives.

89 Posted on 07/31/2001 08:08:07 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: sakic

ROTFLMAO!!!!

90 Posted on 07/31/2001 09:04:06 PDT by constitutiongirl
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To: Buffalo Bob

The pooper troopers are at war and they will stop at nothing to recruit your children into their depraved lifestyle.

91 Posted on 07/31/2001 09:15:19 PDT by winodog
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To: All-American Medic

All-American Medic, I think you are misunderstanding what people are saying. Let me make it simple. Would you raise any of your sons to lust after or be obsessed with another man's waste release orofice? Would you raise your kids to view homosexuality, AIDS, and promiscuity as 'just another alternative lifestyle'? Would you teach your kids that homosexuals are just normal people and not sick degenerates? Most likely, like any proud parent you would never let your kids be recruited into the gay lifestyle. That is all people are saying. When you go off on how you support other parents teaching 'gay is good', that sets off an alarm. Would you support other parents teaching 'crack use is good'? Would you be supporting the right of parents to teach kids that 'bestiality is good'?

92 Posted on 07/31/2001 13:28:25 PDT by RegalEagle
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To: sakic

They brought their daughter up with family values and the Christian morality that homosexuality is a sin. Yet lesbian teachers in the public school system recruited her and most likely molested her.

I like sci-fi too

Then how do you explain Mary Cheney going into the homosexual lifestyle? Don't tell me she was born that way. There is absolutely no proof of a genetic basis. Remember, homosexuals can't have kids so the only option is to recruit. Dick and Lynne are Christians and like 99% of people with faith believe homosexuality is a repugnant and sinful lifestyle choice. That leaves molestation as the most likely cause of her turning to a decadent lifestyle.

93 Posted on 07/31/2001 13:34:32 PDT by RegalEagle
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To: RegalEagle

Your post 93 is so bereft of logic it's almost breathtaking. You jumped from point A to point Q without even a hint of a connection.

94 Posted on 07/31/2001 14:08:15 PDT by sakic
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To: RegalEagle

BTW, if that's how the process works, please explain where the first homosexual came from.

95 Posted on 07/31/2001 14:09:08 PDT by sakic
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To: RegalEagle

No...and we have gotten completely off topic...What I said was it is up to parents to educate their children about sex and not the school.

96 Posted on 07/31/2001 14:19:59 PDT by All-American Medic
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To: All-American Medic

During the VP debate, he stated that he and his children attended public schools.

97 Posted on 07/31/2001 14:24:49 PDT by Unassuaged
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To: armourup

Ben Franklin-----GAY!

98 Posted on 07/31/2001 14:26:53 PDT by Unassuaged
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To: Buffalo Bob

These people deserve.(Well I can't say it )I don't want to lose my ability to post.

99 Posted on 07/31/2001 14:28:08 PDT by karebare
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To: LarryLied

Makes one naucious.

100 Posted on 07/31/2001 14:34:27 PDT by karebare
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To: sakic

sakic, unless you are one of the pro-homosexual types who try to rationalize its acceptance by claiming a genetic basis, then how do you explain people like Mary Cheney choosing that lifestyle even though they were brought up with wholesome values? Instead of attacking me, why can't you explain that? A logical conclusion is that she was molested by a lesbian and recruited that way. Remember, homosexuals can't reproduce so what other way would they have to maintain their numbers? Like All-American Medic said, parents should teach their own values to their kids which is what the Cheney's did.

101 Posted on 07/31/2001 14:39:25 PDT by RegalEagle
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To: Buffalo Bob

Bizarro world, where the sickos sue the people trying to stop the sickness. This is ridiculous.

102 Posted on 07/31/2001 15:17:21 PDT by Leper Messiah
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To: RegalEagle

Using your logic, where did the first lesbian come from? Who molested her?

103 Posted on 07/31/2001 17:02:54 PDT by sakic
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To: sakic

So I take it you are homosexual or bisexual and claim you didn't choose that lifestyle? Why can't you just be honest with us? Homosexuals have an average life span of 41. Why would anyone try to keep them from knowing that there IS a way out? No child should be left with the impression that homosexuality is anything but dangerous and filthy as a way of life.

104 Posted on 07/31/2001 19:22:56 PDT by RegalEagle
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To: aristeides

"Question: where does current governor Swift stand on this?"

Swift recently hired a third homosexual to her top staff.She recently issued a proclamation declaring "Gay Youth Pride Day." She said she supports "domestic partnership" legislation.She remaois --like Cellucci--tight lipped on this entire scandal.

105 Posted on 07/31/2001 20:43:27 PDT by Patriot76
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To: humblegunner

""They then proceeded to show those children a better technique for ‘fisting,’ which is thrusting one’s arm up another person’s" whatever. Better than what?"

They showed the kids how to shape their hand for proper fisting rather than shove a closed fist up there.

106 Posted on 07/31/2001 20:54:16 PDT by Patriot76
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To: RegalEagle

I'm not a homosexual and you're an evader of very direct questions. For the 3rd time:

Where did the first lesbian come from if there was no one to molest her? Why are you afraid to answer?

107 Posted on 08/01/2001 04:54:49 PDT by sakic
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To: Cyber Liberty

There is another suit over the same issues filed in the Middlesex County Court in Cambridge by another lesbian instructor

How fitting that the gays and lezbos filed suit in MIDDLESEX county. Nothing like jury rigging....

108 Posted on 08/01/2001 05:13:02 PDT by Go Gordon
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To: Buffalo Bob

Bump

109 Posted on 08/03/2001 12:00:24 PDT by EdReform
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To: All-American Medic

AMEN TO THAT..BETTER LATE THAN NEVER..APATHY IS WHAT GOT US HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

110 Posted on 08/11/2001 21:01:06 PDT by odie (odievalley@webtv.net)
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