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North Carolina is often used by Tennessee income tax proponents as an example of what Tennessee could be. The article above indicates that the example may not necessarily be a good one.
North Carolina has an income tax; Tennessee does not. The North Carolina income tax for married individuals who file joint returns is 6% on incomes up to $21,250; 7% on income amounts between $21,250 and $100,000; and 7.75% on amounts over $100,000. (North Carolina General Statutes, § 105-134.2.)
North Carolina and Tennessee also have sales taxes. In North Carolina the state sales tax rate is 4%; in Tennessee it is 6%. In Tennessee, there may also be a local option sales tax of up 2.75%. Food is exempt from taxation in North Carolina. However, food prices in Charlotte, North Carolina, without a sale tax are equal to or greater than food prices in Nashville with the sales tax included. Grocers of course have to include a mark up to pay the North Carolina income tax, raising raising the retail price of food to cover the expense on income taxes.
The average North Carolinian pays $1,890.36 in State taxes, ranking North Carolina as the 20th state in per capita taxation. On average, Tennesseans pay $1,360.38 in taxes, ranking 48th in per capita taxation. Income tax proponents think that comparison is to North Carolina's advantage; many taxpayers disagree.
Businesses seem to disagree as well. North Carolina ranked a dismal 35th in the 2001 Small Business Survival Index, while Tennessee ranked 10th. Tax policy was a major factor in Tennessee's high rank and in North Carolina's low rating. (See 'No Income Tax States Rank High in Small Business Study' below.)
There are many other areas in which North Carolina does not compare favourably with Tennessee. For example:
By the same measure, we are now seeing in North Carolina's example, that a State income tax is not a magic bullet to solve State budget woes. If we send it, they will spend it.
More budget comparisons are shown in the table, below. Additional comparisons with other States can be found at Tennessee Budget CrisisTennessee
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|
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| Population | 5,700,000 | 8,000,000 | ||
| State Budget | $18,907,000,000 | $23,445,000,000 | ||
| Education | 41% | 35% | ||
| Health/welfare | 27% | 12% | ||
| Per capita | $3,317 | $2,931 | ||
| Avg. teacher salary | $36,500 | $36,098 | ||
| Unemployment | 4.00% | 3.20% | ||
| College degree | 17.70% | 23.90% | ||
| Home ownership | 71.90% | 71.70% | ||
| Gross product | $138,000,000,000 | $228,000,000,000 | ||
| Per capita | $24,211 | $28,500 | ||
| Average annual salary | $29,518 | $29,453 | ||
| Doctors/100K | 246 | 232 | ||
| State health spending | $5,104,890,000 | $2,813,400,000 | ||
| Per capita | $896 | $352 | ||
| State health ranking | 41 | 33 | ||
| School age children | 1,026,000 | 1,440,000 | ||
| Education spending | $7,751,870,000 | $8,205,750,000 | ||
| Per capita | $1,360 | $1,026 | ||
| Per child | $7,555 | $5,698 | ||
| College Ranking | 44 | 3 | ||
| Student/faculty ratio | 17/1 | 14/1 | ||
| Classes under 20 | 35% | 42% | ||
| Classes over 50 | 8% | 12% | ||
| Graduation rate | 56% | 82% | ||
| In-state tuition | $3,362 | $2,768 | ||
| Out of state tuition | $10,166 | $11,934 | ||
| Avg HS GPA at college entry | 3.30 | 4.06 | ||
| Freshmen retention | 78% | 95% | ||
| 8th grade reading scores | 258.5 | 263.0 | ||
| Percent proficient or better | 25.5% | 31.0% | ||
| Percent less than proficient | 74.5% | 69.0% |
Thank you for this report. MOre later!
Shelby County TAX TEA PARTY THROWERS (REVOLTERS) NEEDED FRIDAY 1:30 PM at county commission MORE taxes meeting:
The Shelby County Board of Commissioners and all of the individual Commissioners may be reached at...
Shelby County Board of Commissioners Office
Suite 619, 160 N. Main Street, Memphis, TN 38103
Phone - (901) 545-4301
FAX - (901) 545-4283
Budget Click Here
Rout's letter to commissioners Click Here
N.H. Town Residents Urge Tax Revolt
By LORI AYOTTE .c The Associated Press
NEWINGTON, N.H. (AP) - Townspeople haven't called out the militia, but some frustrated residents of this feisty town of 850 want to secede from the state over the same issue that led to the American Revolution: taxation.
At issue is the state property tax, under which wealthy communities - so-called ``donor towns'' - send money to the state for redistribution to poor towns.
Residents from Newington and other donor communities packed a town hall meeting Tuesday night to respond to a petition signed by 52 residents urging the town board to invoke a constitutional clause giving them the right to revolt.
Many blamed the governor and other officials for the tax, as well as the state Supreme Court for keeping it on the books.
The meeting attended by about 200 people ended with the town's board of selectmen promising some sort of referendum in the fall, but likely not a motion to secede.
``The whole taxation idea is trash,'' said Bettey Tobey, a Rye resident, holding a homemade picket sign urging citizens to revolt.
The state imposed the property tax two years ago as a temporary measure to pay for schools. Under it, Newington paid $1.9 million in state taxes to fund education this year and is scheduled to pay another $2.1 million next year.
Newington and two dozen other donor communities sued the state over the tax. In January, a judge declared the tax unconstitutional and ordered the state to repay the communities the $884 million it collected.
But a divided state Supreme Court reversed that ruling in the spring.
In June, lawmakers voted to make the property tax permanent.
``I think that was the straw right there,'' said Selectman Jack O'Reilly.
Critics of the tax say it hurts those on fixed incomes - often the elderly who may be property rich, but income poor.
``I'm fighting for my home,'' said Portsmouth Mayor Evelyn Sirrell, who attended the public hearing to support Newington.
The Kingsport Times 8/1/01
All sides of Tennessee's budget battle expected to converge again next week
By the Assoicated Press
NASHVILLE, Tenn. - When lawmakers return next week to try to override Gov. Don Sundquist's budget veto, they'll get plenty of advice.
Powerful lobbying groups have a direct interest in what happens, including the Farm Bureau, teachers and state employees. Tax protesters who disrupted the legislature two weeks ago are promoting another rally to greet returning legislators. There is much at stake for both higher education and K-12 schools. Local governments face the potential loss of state money.
The biggest loser in the budget passed July 12 was the Farm Bureau, overall one of the most effective lobbies on Capitol Hill. But when the Legislature could not agree on any significant new revenue, lawmakers took all the tobacco settlement dollars in hand, plus everything expected through next June - a total of $560 million - to make the budget balance. The legislature's budget has been dubbed the "rich uncle" approach because it relies on windfall like that inherited when a wealthy relative dies.
Using the tobacco money was a blow to a coalition of health and farm groups formed last year to recommend the best way to spend the tobacco settlement windfall, which comes from tobacco companies to resolve lawsuits over the public cost of treating tobacco-related illnesses. An ad hoc committee of legislators had recommended splitting the money evenly between the two groups.
The health groups wanted to use their share to defray the costs of smoking-related illnesses and to institute smoking cessation and prevention programs. The agriculture group wanted to use the money to help the state's tobacco farmers. A separate, smaller part of the national settlement sets aside money just for farmers; those funds are not affected by the budget fight.
Neither the health nor agriculture side will get what it wants if the Legislature overrides Sundquist's veto and the budget stays in place. The budget provides 2.5 percent pay raises for teachers and state employees only by obligating all the tobacco funds.
In addition to the input from the Farm Bureau and health groups, the Tennessee State Employees Association is renewing its push for tax reform.
"Legislators need to get back here and do the work we all elected them to do and bring back a responsible budget," said Linda McCarty, director of the state employees' union.
The Tennessee Education Association, the state's largest teachers' union, finds itself in an awkward position, said chief lobbyist Jerry Winters.
"There is no doubt this is a terrible budget and that spending all the tobacco money borders on irresponsible," Winters said. "But on the other hand it does contain at least a cost of living adjustment for teachers. If the veto is sustained, teachers could get no raise at all unless the legislators find some new revenue, and I'm not confident they're going to do that."
That being the case, he said, the TEA is not asking legislators to override the veto.
"We are saying, ‘However you vote, we have got to address the teacher salary issue in any subsequent budget,"' Winters said.
The stakes for local governments have been raised, as well. Both the temporary budget adopted June 29 to avoid a governmental shutdown and the vetoed "rich uncle" budget approved July 12 put cities and counties on notice: The money they've been getting from the state may not be there much longer.
Both budgets contemplate freezing state-shared taxes at their current dollar levels, with the growth going to the state after the current budget year.
Sundquist underscored the warning to local governments in remarks after his veto.
"Frankly I was disappointed we didn't have more people down here who are getting hurt - mayors, county executives, business leaders, teachers, bankers, state employees," he said.
"I don't want to do this, but we could balance our budget fairly easily if we took the tax money we raise at the state level and keep it at the state. What would that do to mayors and county executives? They would have to raise their property taxes. I'm not threatening them, but I'm going to tell you if we don't solve this problem this year or next, that's where the legislature is going to look. That's where I'm going to look."
The state-shared tax revenue totals $700 million this year, and that does not count hundreds of millions in other aid, such as for schools, transportation, health care and other programs.
Times Free Press 8/1/01
State, county educators back vetoed budget By Beverly A. Carroll Staff Writer
Hamilton County educators are supporting a state budget recently vetoed by Gov. Don Sundquist even as other powerful lobbying groups say they want lawmakers to sustain the governor and draw up a new plan.
The Hamilton County Education Association supports the state education association's position that "as bad as (the budget passed on July 12) is, it does contain a 2.5 percent salary increase for teachers," Hamilton County Education Association President Bill Bowman said.
If legislators sustain the governor's veto, "it would open the door for them to come back and do more damage," Mr. Bowman said.
The $19.6 billion budget, which Gov. Sundquist vetoed last week, uses nearly $560 million in tobacco settlement money to make the budget balance.
While teachers and state employees stand to get a raise, one of the big losers would be the Farm Bureau.
Using the tobacco money was a blow to a coalition of health and farm groups formed last year to recommend the best way to spend the tobacco settlement windfall, which comes from tobacco companies to resolve lawsuits over the public cost of treating tobacco-related illnesses.
Health groups wanted to use their share to defray the costs of smoking-related illnesses and to institute smoking cessation and prevention programs. The agriculture group wanted to use the money to help the state's tobacco farmers. A separate, smaller part of the national settlement sets aside money just for farmers; those funds are not affected by the budget fight.
The budget also contemplates freezing state-shared taxes at their current dollar levels, with the growth going to the state after the current budget year.
The state education association is not putting pressure on legislators, yet, said Tennessee Education Association lobbyist Jerry Winters.
"We are not putting a hard sale to override the veto. We are saying, 'However you vote you must see that the salary issue is addressed in any budget you come up with,'" Mr. Winters said.
Local school officials and educators say while they support the TEA's stand they are disheartened by the legislature's actions.
"I think teachers are very frustrated with the legislature's inability to come up with a workable solution," Mr. Bowman said. "It doesn't look like it's going to be resolved next year, which will put us even deeper in the hole in terms of financing quality education," Mr. Bowman said.
Hamilton County Board of Education Chairman Charles Love has said he is disappointed in state lawmakers.
"Last year they passed a budget on inflated growth and this year they used the tobacco money and got out of town. That budget was passed on the backs of our students," Mr. Love said.
Kenneth Barker, principal of Nolan Elementary, supports the TEA's position. With several legislators on record as saying the budget needs more cuts rather than tax reform, it's best not to let them have an opportunity to work on another budget, Mr. Barker said.
Legislators will return to Nashville Aug. 7 to deal with the vetoed budget
Chattanooga could lose $1.2 million if lawmakers override veto
By Duane W. Gang Staff Writer
If the Tennessee General Assembly overrides Gov. Don Sundquist's budget veto, Chattanooga could lose nearly $1.2 million in state funding, officials said Tuesday.
Tom Varlan, Chattanooga's Tennessee Municipal League lobbyist, told a City Council committee meeting the legislature's July 12 budget intends to withhold the future growth from state-shared taxes.
The legislature is expected to vote on an override Tuesday. If lawmakers do not override the veto, the state reverts to the so-called "bare-bones" budget passed June 29.
The city gets about $19.4 million a year from state-shared taxes, which include the Hall income tax, gasoline and fuel taxes and alcoholic beverage taxes.
Mr. Varlan said based on fiscal year 1999-2000 figures, with an estimated 4 percent growth, the city could lose $778,620 in revenue from state-shared taxes.
"Next year the intent of the legislature would be to freeze state-shared taxes," he said. "The attempt would be to capture the growth."
The state's budget also would make some recurring grant programs nonrecurring, meaning local governments could lose even more funding, Mr. Varlan said.
Each year, the state gives out $42 million in recurring grants. From that, Chattanooga gets $405,320 a year in police and firefighter pay supplements, Mr. Varlan said.
To withhold the growth in state-shared taxes lawmakers would need to take specific action next year, Mr. Varlan said. Right now, he said, it is just their intent to do so.
But the legislature does not need to take any additional action on grants, he said.
"Those monies and grants are at risk without any further action," Mr. Varlan said.
City Council Chairman Yusuf Hakeem said the state's budget woes leave the city with many unknowns.
"It means we can't depend on the state budget for funding," he said.
City Councilman John Franklin, who serves on the TML board, also is concerned about the state budget. "The state budget can't help but have a reciprocal effect on the city," he said.
Not reflecting on you, Devereaux, but how can a high school student have a GPA of GREATER THAN 4.0? Notice the NC lists their students with an average college entrance GPA of 4.06.
But it is only FAIR that those with more pay a geater percentage! (/disgusted sarcasm off)
I would like to ask a liberal who is so enamoured with "fairness", "Just how much is fair? 50%? (about where we are at now), 60%? 70%? 100%? HOW MUCH?!!! Because I have gone WAAAAYYYYY past that!
The Tennessean 8/1/01
Override of budget veto appears likely; Naifeh says later compromise possible
By DUREN CHEEK Staff Writer
Tennessee lawmakers and their leaders appear to be in no mood to continue discussing taxes when they return to Nashville Tuesday to take up Gov. Don Sundquist's budget veto.
There appears to be strong consensus in the House to override Sundquist's veto of a budget he called ''fiscally irresponsible'' and return home as quickly as possible.
''The governor may be looking to try to find new revenue when we come back,'' said House Speaker Jimmy Naifeh, D-Covington. ''I don't think we have had enough time to determine in our districts that people are, in fact, more lenient toward tax reform.''
Lawmakers left here surly and tired July 12 after a budget battle that sent them into overtime.
If Sundquist wants to call the legislature into session the last week of October or the first week of November to take up the issue changing the state's tax structure, ''I will lead the charge to help him do that,'' Naifeh said.
Sundquist spokeswoman Alexia Levison said Justin Wilson, deputy to the governor for policy, has been working on a variety of budget and revenue options ''that go from zero to $800 million.'' However, she said she knew of no plans by the administration to roll out a new revenue proposal next week.
The governor told reporters last week that he is willing to scale back his ambitious education initiative and open discussions on whether fewer Tennesseans should be covered by TennCare. But even a scaled-down program would require new revenue.
State Rep. Matt Kisber, chairman of the House Finance Committee, agreed with Naifeh that further tax talks at this time would be fruitless.
''The stalemate that caused us to go into July for all practical purposes seems to still exist.''
The situation on the override is murkier in the Senate.
''I don't know that anybody knows'' how the Senate will vote on the override motion, said Speaker Pro Tem Bob Rochelle, D-Lebanon. ''I haven't been counting any votes, so I don't know how that stacks up.''
Rochelle, chief proponent of a state income tax, said he hoped the legislature would make an effort to pass a ''responsible'' budget.
''I would like to see them pass a graduated income tax and solve the problem for the foreseeable future.''
The $19.6 billion budget, approved July 12 and vetoed by the governor last week, raises no new taxes and does little in the way of funding new programs. Sundquist said one of the budget's most objectionable features is its use of four years' worth of tobacco settlement funds, about $560 million, to cover a one-year budget shortfall.
The state is currently operating on a temporary budget that was approved June 29 to avoid a government shutdown July 1.
The temporary budget is similar to the vetoed budget, but does not spend all of the available tobacco funds and is leaner. It does not fund a 2.5% raise for state workers and teachers.
Naifeh said he is optimistic that the legislature can wind up its work in three to four days.
''We haven't been gone but three weeks now. The thought of going back and having to stay a long period of time, I don't think, would be very agreeable to the members.''
If the override is successful, it will be a short session. If not, the session could drag on for weeks, Kisber said.
''If we get into the position that we have to start all over again with new revenue bills and new appropriations bills we may run out of (meeting) days before we can get something done.'' The legislature is limited to 90 meeting days over a two-year period and has already used 60 of them.
Rep. Randy Rinks, D-Savannah, said lawmakers need some time to spend with their families and take care of their businesses at home.
Rinks said lawmakers are tired of each other, tired of budget and tax discussions, and emotionally drained by a session that went almost seven months, two months longer than normal.
Rinks was to go to Florida last night to be with his family on vacation but will have to leave his family behind when he flies here on Monday.
''We have just missed out on so much,'' Rinks said. ''Everybody wants to be at home right now.''
Blood,
Good question. I had better look into that.
The Code Red worm must be munching on the feds this morning. I can't get into their web sites to check these figures there. I will see if I can find them in the North Carolina web sites.
Evidence for your NRST files...
North Carolina has an income tax; Tennessee does not. The North Carolina income tax for married individuals who file joint returns is 6% on incomes up to $21,250; 7% on income amounts between $21,250 and $100,000; and 7.75% on amounts over $100,000. (North Carolina General Statutes, § 105-134.2.) North Carolina and Tennessee also have sales taxes. In North Carolina the state sales tax rate is 4%; in Tennessee it is 6%. In Tennessee, there may also be a local option sales tax of up 2.75%. Food is exempt from taxation in North Carolina. However, food prices in Charlotte, North Carolina, without a sale tax are equal to or greater than food prices in Nashville with the sales tax included. Grocers of course have to include a mark up to pay the North Carolina income tax, raising raising the retail price of food to cover the expense on income taxes.
Just FYI. (While I support HR 2525, I remain an opponent of certain NRST plans). I noted that Treasury Secretary O'Neill has been quietly floating trial balloons for a "complete overhaul" of the tax system, possibly as early as next year, though it may be delayed until 2004 for use in Bush's re-election campaign. Any news??
That said, I am disappointed that we have not had a "complete overhaul" already. Weren't you folks telling me back in '99-'00 that Congress had mandated the "sunsetting" of the entire Tax Code on January 1, 2001? Well, what happened?? (They just arbitrarily legislated to "extend" the deadline, didn't they...)
BTTT
If NC does have a GPA system that uses something other than a 0-4.0 grade with no intermediate grades (i.e. a 3.5 for a B+) then the two are not comparable.
Blood,
My information was erroneous. Correct data follows:
Here are numbers I found for UNC campuses, followed by the URL:
Asheville -- Average high school GPA: 3.69
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_2907.htm
Chapel Hill -- Average high school GPA: 3.43
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_2975.htm
Charlotte -- Average high school GPA: 3.43
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_2975.htm
Greensboro -- Average high school GPA: N/A
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_2976.htm
Pembroke -- Average high school GPA: 3.00
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_2954.htm
Wilmington -- Average high school GPA: 3.48
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_2984.htm
By way of comparison:
UT-Chattanooga -- Average high school GPA: 3.20
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_3529.htm
UT-Knoxville -- Average high school GPA: 3.30
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_3530.htm
UT-Martin -- Average high school GPA: 3.20
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_3531.htm
Univ. of Memphis -- Average high school GPA: 3.03
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_3509.htm
East Tenn. State U. -- Average high school GPA: 3.11
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_3487.htm
Middle Tenn. State U. -- Average high school GPA: N/A
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_3510.htm
Tennessee State U. -- Average high school GPA: N/A
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_3522.htm
Except for UNC-Pembroke (3.00), their worst (3.43) is better than our best (3.30).
The problem was the reporting for GPA for UNC at Chapel Hill. The figure reported for their Average GPA was 4.06
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/dradmiss_2974.htm
Thanks for the numbers....However, if NC students are scoring above 3.00 GPA across the state.....
WOW, the kids I meet at the cash registers must all be from Vermont and other sleasy places in the elitist NE. A few days ago the clerk asked me how much change I should get back; HUH?..... It's down right scary....However, I know things will get better here in tar heel land(ugh,I'm a state man) because us workers will support another tax increase "for the children"...I'll bet our pink marble state board of education building in Raleigh ($26,000,000.00) is prettier than most of yours...remember we do it for the children........
I have calculated more accurate average GPAs for freshment at government universities in the two States.
Averaging the GPAs of a total of 11,195 freshmen at UNC campuses (leaving out Chapel Hill's erroneous 4.06), I get an average North Carolina GPA of 3.44.
Averaging the GPAs of a total of 17,099 freshmen at UT-C, UT-K, UT-M, ETSU, and Un. of Memphis, I get an average Tennessee GPA of 3.19.
Don't forget Mike Fleming is having some of the Shelby Co commissioners on today at 3 pm to answer the need for INCREASED property taxes and doubling the wheel tax.
Also commission meeting is this Fri at 1:30 pm Bring PLENTY small hand held Tax protest signs.
Dev what all kinds of security bariers did they stick up around the Capital???
All that I know about is the $600,000+ gate they put to keep cars out of the area at the top of Capitol Hill after hours.
They dumb down the curriculum and then give kids 5 points for an 'A' in an "accelerated" class. Very few of these classes live up to their names.
BUMP
The GPAs are HS GPAs for freshmen entering college, not statewide averages.
TN_Tax index bump.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
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