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Caracas, 3 July 2001
(EFE). - The Mexican writer Elena Poniatowska asserted today that Mexico is at this moment recovering territories it lost in the past to the United States thanks to emigration.
" The common people - the poor, the dirty, the lice ridden, the cockroaches are advancing on the United States, a country that needs to speak Spanish because it has 33.5 million Hispanics who are imposing their culture ", affirmed Poniatowska while unveiling her new novel " La piel del cielo" in Caracas.
The writer said that the pessimistic vision held by the late Mexican writer Octavio Paz on the Mexican as “loser", is, in her opinion, a relic of the past and today "Mexico is recovering the territories yielded to the United States by means of migratory tactics”.
"Perhaps, Octavio Paz could not foresee this phenomenon. But, it fills me full of joy, because the Hispanics can have an ever greater influence all the way from Patagonia to Alaska ", she said.
She also talked about the boom in Indian rights as a result of the fight maintained for many years by the Zapatista Army of National Liberation (EZLN) and by " sub-commander Marcos " in particular. " Thanks to ' Marcos' Indian rights is again up for discussion in Latin American", she maintained when presenting her literary work to la Corporación Andina de Fomento (CAF). Her novel won the “Alfaguara de Novela 2001” prize.
Poniatowska was born in Paris in 1933 of Polish origin and has lived in Mexico from the age of nine. She doubted the Partido Revolucionario Institucional (PRI) would have allowed (because they would have been too terrified by the Zapatistas) the march from Chiapas to the capital which was authorized by President Vicente Fox last March. " Now the Zapatistas have, thanks to that march, great support of the students, the middle-class and the lower classes, but not of the bankers ", she said. "Allowing the march was to the credit of Fox, but not his marriage yesterday, because I do not like that a million dollars was spent to establish a love nest with Martha Sahagún, his spokeswoman and now his wife ", affirmed Poniatowska.
She confessed that in her novel she tried to show, on the one hand, the deficiencies of her country in taking care of the scientific and cultural activities, and on the other hand, in denouncing the flight of brains to the well equipped universities in the United States, which becomes " a drama for Mexico”.
On Latin America, the writer said, "corruption is a lead weight on the region " and added that, “the Latin American people do not have the leaders they deserve".
Poniatowska, has presented her novel in sixteen countries of Latin America since the novel winning the Alfaguara prize this past March over 600 competing works. She assured her audience that she has noticed few differences between Bolivians and Mexicans, or between an Argentinean and a Venezuelan.
She has valued tremendously her profession as a journalist, which began at " the Excelsior " of Mexico City in the 1950’s and considered journalism "a lesson in humility".
She added that newspaper work has allowed her to know and to interview intellectuals and artists like Alfonso Reyes, Dolores del Rio, Maria Felix, David Alfaro Siquieros, Diego Rivera, Luis Bunuel and Juan Rulfojul
A much sought-after speaker, Poniatowska has lectured widely in Mexico and in the United States and has made presentations at Oxford, Cambridge, Heidelberg, Munich, Frankfurt, Cologne, Paris, and Lyon. As a visiting professor she has taught at universities in Texas and Florida, as well as at Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Cornell, and the University of California at Berkeley, Davis, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, Los Angeles, and Stanford. http://www.baylor.edu/Political_Science/PoniatowskaBio.htm.
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" The common people - the poor, the dirty, the lice ridden, the cockroaches are advancing on the United States, a country that needs to speak Spanish because it has 33.5 million Hispanics who are imposing their culture "
This is the reason that these people are leaving Mexico - not to fulfill the nationalistic fantasies of Mexico's privileged elite, but because they are treated like "cockroaches" by their own countrymen. No wonder Mexico cannot keep her own citizens from fleeing her borders - can you imagine a "respected" journalist from the United States referring to any citizen with such smug vitriol?
This may explain why almost every WORKING Mexican immigrant I have personally met (and they are many) has embraced this country with such fervor. I don't blame them for leaving Mexico one bit.
Thank you for posting this. Her views are consistent with the economic policies and pronouncements of the Mexican government and the U.S. Democratic Party alike. So long as an immigrant can rent or buy a place to stay, speaks or is willing to learn English, obeys common law, and is otherwise self-sufficient, I welcome him. Those who fail those tests are unwelcome.
Another grand master plan that is going to backfire with the unexpected result that the immigrants will become americans.
"So long as an immigrant can rent or buy a place to stay, speaks or is willing to learn English, obeys common law, and is otherwise self-sufficient, I welcome him. Those who fail those tests are unwelcome."
Thank you for stating that! An immigrant who is capable of taking care of themselves, their families, and wants to be here is an asset - and will help offset the large number of parasitic people who have sucked the blood from this Republic without contributing anything in return. I'll trade you Alec Baldwin, Barbara Streisand, and the rest of the Hollywood elite for all these "common people" you can round up. That way Babs and Alec can get together with this elitist journalist and spew, while the rest of us "common people" build up this country and get some WORK done...
"can you imagine a "respected" journalist from the United States referring to any citizen with such smug vitriol?"
Actually it is clearer in the Spanish but what she is saying is that it isn't the Mexican elite which is winning back the lost territories but the dreges of society. She is actually very proud of them.
Migration is human, and both sides of a fence can be a problem.
"This is the reason that these people are leaving Mexico - not to fulfill the nationalistic fantasies of Mexico's privileged elite, but because they are treated like "cockroaches" by their own countrymen"
The average "ratero" rat person or Cucaracha "cockroach" who comes to the US is doing it for their own personal reasons not part of an overall design. I do not blame them for leaving. However, I do think the US has a right to choose who it lets into the country and I am pretty sure that the lowest clasess of Mexico are going to make our country stronger even if they work hard.
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She may be proud of them, but she may be indulging in a LOT of wishful thinking. I have yet to meet any immigrant who's actually working for a living here who has expressed any of the viewpoints she's espousing. I have met moneyed community (read DEMOCRAT) leaders who spout a bunch of agitprop, but never yet heard it from a working immigrant. The vast majority of them who are here came to make a better life for their families, not to fulfill the wishes of some elitist nationalist faction. And they are very happy to be here, and DON'T want to go back to Mexico - or turn America into Mexico, either. Now, the racist/nationalist factions of La Raza/ Aztlan are a different story - but I don't see them making any significant inroads with these people. The immigrant who is here to work and become American is too busy trying to make money and learn English (albiet very slowly sometimes) to waste time with this drivel.
I'm not saying that the Mexican Nationalist/Extremist groups aren't dangerous to our Nation - I'm saying that if you think the vast majority of the average working Mexican immigrant has anything to do with them, you're wrong. Look to Democrats and Mexican Nationalist agitators, and get THEM out of the country instead...
"This may explain why almost every WORKING Mexican immigrant I have personally met (and they are many) has embraced this country with such fervor"
I have met and talked to many Hispanics new to the US and one thing that I found very odd was that not one has said anything good about the United States, the US constitution, how happy they are to not be in Mexico or Guatamala or wherever. I have talked to Russians, Ukrainians, Germans and even Australians who did express good things about the US constitution and how lucky Americans are.
The new Hispanics have said they are happy to be making enough money to help their family and that they are happy in their work here. But that is different from saying anything positive about the US itself.
"Another grand master plan that is going to backfire with the unexpected result that the immigrants will become americans"
She is not claiming a master plan she is talking about the irony that it is the lowest of the low of Mexico who are finally winning against the United States. Octavio Paz whom she cites I believe was somewhat obsessed with the Gringos always winning against Mexico. His father was Emilio Zapata's (Mexican revolutionary) secretary.
I have severe reservations about assimulation if that is what you mean by "become americans".
"Look to Democrats and Mexican Nationalist agitators, and get THEM out of the country instead"
Here! Here!
My experience is a little different than yours. A friend of mine who is a Democrat ran for Governor of my state. I have experience with the GOTV (get out the vote) on that side of the aisle. I will not underestimate and am frankly scared of the abilty of the Demos and the professional agitators ability to get out the vote of otherwise nonpolitical hispanics - citizens, legal workers and illegals.If Bush changes the status of illegals to legal guest workers of some sort the voting participation of the former illegals will soar and that vote will go 99% to the Demos.
"I have severe reservations about assimulation if that is what you mean by "become americans"."
Why they are all going to become god fearing constitutionalists with respect for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You know, like all of us already here.
Mexico City's Excelsior columnist Carlos Loret De Mola, writing in an article entitled "The Great Invasion: Mexico Recovers Its Own" -- "A peaceful mass of people ... carries out slowly and patiently an unstoppable invasion, the most important in human history. You cannot give me a similar example of such a large migratory wave by an ant-like multitude, stubborn, unarmed, and carried on in the face of the most powerful and best armed nation on earth ... barbed-wire fences, nor aggressive border guards, nor campaigns, nor laws, nor police raids against the undocumented, have stopped this movement of the masses that is unprecedented in any part of the world."
btttttttt
Yep, sounds to assimilation to me, right boys...
Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Council -- "They're afraid we're going to take over the governmental institutions and other institutions. They're right. We will take them over ... We are here to stay."
Great post, FreedomSurge. I wish I was as optimistic as your name.
This may explain why almost every WORKING Mexican immigrant I have personally met (and they are many) has embraced this country with such fervor. I don't blame them for leaving Mexico one bit.
They ought to be fixing Mexico, not infesting the U.S. "Embraced this country"? Uh huh..... like leeches... while sending $ billions to Mexico. They need to be deported.
Did last line of 14 get transposed or something left out?
For my part, here in Alta California, the lower classes of Mexico Should be Mexico's problem.
Trained, skilled, law abiding immigrants are welcome, not crossers who would work but have not the skills nor attitude to work profitably.
Skilled and trained immigrants can be favored in LEGAL immigration policies that make PRACTICAL sense.
Letting anyone in who can pay the coyote, then hoping for the best is assinine.
"You cannot give me a similar example of such a large migratory wave by an ant-like multitude, stubborn, unarmed, and carried on in the face of the most powerful and best armed nation on earth ... barbed-wire fences, nor aggressive border guards, nor campaigns, nor laws, nor police raids against the undocumented, have stopped this movement of the masses that is unprecedented in any part of the world"
What people don't understand about Fox and his calls for additional rights of illegals in the US is that he assumes (as does everyone in Mexico) that if the US didn't want illegals in the US we would have stopped the flow therefore if we don't stop the flow then we want them here and we owe them rights.
Another difference between the people in the US and Mexico is the Mexicans assume the US has made a big push to seal the border. In the US we view the border as being barely defended.
Good catch I left a not out.
I am pretty sure that the lowest clasess of Mexico are not going to make our country stronger even if they work hard
This may explain why almost every WORKING Mexican immigrant I have personally met (and they are many) has embraced this country with such fervor. I don't blame them for leaving Mexico one bit.
in short, they were down home decent folk, if you this once
was the land of opportunity. it is now widely
if you think i need this, here: </rant>
(no, i married a sicilian catholic.)
i came up in a small farming community that was
half populated by migrant workers during the
harvest, and a few stayed around. they were staunch
catholic in a white mormon area, but i must say
that their kids were respectful and hard working
as were their parents. their yards were immaculate.
had the inclination to look past the racial / political
barriers. sadly, i can’t quite say the same today.
and i don’t think it’s the politics on their side of
the border that changed the equation.
known to
be the home of the handout. vote democrat. we
can sink this nation and it’s first world economy, yet.
funny how oklahomans and texans have despised
me for liking the mexicans i know. it’s personal.
Her analysis is self-contradictory; the same country that will "reconquer" the territories lost to the US is riven by incredible corruption and mistreatment of the Indian population by an elite dominated by the Europeans. Take a look at Mexican TV sometime; the actresses are blonder than your average Swedish model. Nope, the Mexican-Americans I've met are very loyal to the US and the last thing I think they'd want is to be ruled by the gang they left behind.
Augustin Cebada, Brown Berets de Aztlan -- "Go back to Boston! Go back to Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You are old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you. Leave like beaten rats. You old white people. It is your duty to die ... Through love of having children, we are going to take over."
" The common people - the poor, the dirty, the lice ridden, the cockroaches are advancing on the United States, a country that needs to speak Spanish because it has 33.5 million Hispanics who are imposing their culture ", affirmed Poniatowska while unveiling her new novel " La piel del cielo" in Caracas.
This arrogant witch is obviously one of the elite class which looks down on the poor hard-working people and encourages them to leave so they don't demand the changes that would rid Mexico of it's real cockroaches---the men and women of her elitist class. These people are so concerned with their wealth and making sure no middle class rises up in Mexico, it's in their interests to make the poor Mexicans and it's would-be middle class to think it's their patriotic duty to leave so they don't disrupt the two-class society they wish to preserve.
Thats right, what do these new immigrants owe to the corrupt Mexican government that refers to them as cockroaches, answer, nothing. Fox keeps trying to tell the american immigrants that they are still a part of Mexico when nothing could be farther from the truth when thier own government is giving them care packages to get the hell out of the country. As long as we americans have our guns we don't have to worry about Atzlan.
Damn them, don't they realize we took the northern half of their country by armed violence fair and square? (Before flaming me for dredging up ancient history, the Lincoln haters should remember the Civil War was only 20 years after the Mexican War).
Besides, if millions of residents of another country were voting in US elections, the same people would be complaining about the loss of sovereignty who complain about millions of people residing in the US voting in Mexican elections.
"Letting anyone in who can pay the coyote, then hoping for the best is assinine"
A Mexican born American friend of mine said that coyote's charge $1,000 per person. I am thinking of loading up the Suberban and heading to Tijuana once a month.
I think "cockroach" just lost something in the translation -- it would be similar to "scum of the earth" in English (which sounds insulting in Spanish).
It's important to note that Elena Poniatowska isn't talking about exporting political institutions, or "taking back" the United States in any political form -- she is just pointing out that the "wretched refuse" (another phrase that would sound condescending in another language) is increasing the connection between the United States and the Hispano-American world.
Incidentally, Poniatowska is a "leftist" by U.S. definitions, but she is praising the Mexican right (FOX and his PAN party) as well as the indigenous rights group -- which have a lot in common with the American right, although we sometimes see their traditional land-holding patterns as "socialist".
The immigrants to the US, on the other hand, are usually somewhat "self-selected" for our values -- they tend to be more individualistic, capitalists rather than communitarian.
I don't know about Mexican migrant workers, but most Americans I meet are honest and hard working ... yet they have no intellectual opposition to socialism.
due to a nihilistic strain in the Mexican national character
Octavio Paz had much insight into the cultural differences. He did not feel the need to blame Americans, he tried to point out to the Mexican people the differences in culture and character that led to the drastically different economies. I doubt he ever referred to his fellow citizens as dirty lice-ridden cockroaches.
We have an aging white America. They are dying. They are sh***ing in their pants with fear!… I love it!
Prof. Jose Angel Gutierrez (University of Texas, Arlington), FOUNDER, La Raza, [Speech of Jan. 1995, quoted in Coe, Reconquista, p. 16.]
"Mexico City's Excelsior columnist Carlos Loret De Mola, writing in an article entitled "The Great Invasion: Mexico Recovers Its Own" -- "
Can you cite this I would like to get the rest of the article.
Author: " sub-commander Marcos " in particular.
37 Posted on 08/11/2001 16:32:37 PDT by Teza:but she is praising the Mexican right (FOX and his PAN party) as well as the indigenous rights group -- which have a lot in common with the American right,
"If there is a civil war in Mexico, the first thing to fall will be the wall at the border."
"Subcomandante" Marcos - Communist, Dictator of the Zapatistas, Aspiring Dictator of Mexico, and Known Reconquista.
It was before I realized I was becoming a NEWS REPORTER for FR LOL usually I have the citation but not always.
I'm Texan and I agree with you. There are a good many of the immigrants who have come to the area where I live, and they have been much as you describe. The gangs and lawlessness that have accompanied them are, for the most part, encouraged by those who profit from keeping these workers at illegal status - coyotes, labor brokers, and Democrat agitators. Those people do not belong here in the United States, and there is no reason to allow them in. I would like to see this amnesty programs be used to "seperate the sheep from the goats"; to identify and process those workers and immigrants who want to be citizens, and those who are here to destroy this nation. If that could be accomplished, then it would be imperative to deport all those who are not here to work or to become citizens.
Seems to me, if Americans could stand up to tyranny we could regain our free nation. But what do I know?
"funny how oklahomans and texans have despised me for liking the mexicans i know. it’s personal"
I like most of the Mexicans I know. There are many aspects of the Mexican culture that I love. I am a huge fan of Mexican TV. (I am an investor in a Spanish language TV station and radio station). I think that a great many Mexicans are hard working and love their families. But I do think the US has a right to choose who it lets into its country and I do not think that the illegals we are letting in will make this country stronger.
Think about it.
Another difference between the people in the US and Mexico is the Mexicans assume the US has made a big push to seal the border. In the US we view the border as being barely defended.
i kinda hate to see my standard of living, that my
father struggled (and fought in the pacific) for, as
have i, to provide for my family and community,
to be deliberately and consistently watered down by
the “we have a responsibility for the u.s. government
to take care of everybody” mentality. if i feel that
responsibility, which i do, that’s fine... but i do not
feel my government should. Christian charity vs.
socialism. it’s basic; fundamental; visceral.
thanks for the bump, FreedomSurge.
"the Mexican-Americans I've met are very loyal to the US and the last thing I think they'd want is to be ruled by the gang they left behind"
Did you follow Univision's (Spanish language TV) coverage of the LA Mayor's race. They treated as if a Mexican national were going to be the first Mexican mayor of a US city. The lead anchor (a Mexican national) who was flown out from Miami to LA to cover the race was crest fallen when Villariagosa did not win.
Many Mexican-Americans that I know are very loyal, but I think we are talking mainly about the new arrivals and I don't think they are Americans quite yet.
I don't blame them for leaving Mexico one bit.
I understand why some are coming, however that's no excuse for breaking our laws and having total disregard for our culture and sovereignty
Seems to me, if Americans could stand up to tyranny we could regain our free nation.
It is a frustrating time to be a patriotic American, to be someone who loved America when she was her greatest. Now America is all about $$$. Now they sell their souls but for what?
What is going on is different from when in the early 20th Century people from Eastern Europe who were Jews, people from Ireland, who were Catholic, people from Russia, who were Orthodox, people from Denmark who were Protestant, etc all came, all differnt cultures, religions, ethnic groups etc all were assimilated. Not today. They're not here to be assimilated, but to assimilate. This is the great danger going on now.
Does heartland America have so little self-respect so little patriotism that they think America is not worth fighting for?
Or is it like the way American Indians welcomed the Europeans?
The current immigration, if it remains at current levels, will change America forever.
Post-American America.
Brazil with nukes.
Thanks for the note. I wish I could say that this is so much posturing by a PRI flake, but I can't.
I fear that the lady is prescient.
I noted that you're graph is old, from 1993.
The current trends are Hispanics going right by the southwest and heading to the Midwest, South and Northeast. We have read several recent articles regarding these trends.
It is truely interesting to reflect on the odd responses to your illuminating post.
1) certainly the downtrodden minimum wage type guys coming over are "happy" to be here, and that is exactly what they tell their European American pals.
2) But trust me, each and every one of them is packed full a mythology regarding how these lands were once "theirs" and how the land was stolen from them.
3) And one must consider the different attitude between the "Chincanos" and the "mexicans".....Chicanos are full speed for succession, autonomy, independence what have you. It is simply a accepted Worldview Chincanos have.
4) Anyone who thinks these groups are assimiliating hasn't got a clue. They may be buying into US style consumerism, but they still believe gringos are ursurpers.
5) White guys seem to think the issue is framed "California again part of Mexico".....but Chicanos don't frame the question is such terms. They think more along the lines of independence or autonomy. Remember, Washington DC is a a psycologically long, long way from San Jan Capistrano.
This will be the single greatest issue facing the US in the next 30-40 years. thanks Freedomsurge for the translation
Another grand master plan that is going to backfire with the unexpected result that the immigrants will become americans.
Visit southern California, southern Arizona, or southern Texas and see if you still feel the same way.
Unfortunately, they are not becoming Americans. That is the problem. In the past, waves of immigrants came her to be Americans. This wave wants to retain their language, their culture, and remain Mexican. I welcome those who wait in line and come here to embrace this culture. This is a nightmare that is going to destroy our nation.
"I think "cockroach" just lost something in the translation -- it would be similar to "scum of the earth" in English (which sounds insulting in Spanish). "
Good points about the translation. I was being a little to literal so as to not be accused of taking license. There are two points that she is making at the same time. That many of the Mexicans coming across the border are the lowest of the low of society, but what I did not put across that she was not personnally using these terms pejoritively due to her leftist leanings.
Here! Here!
I hope you meant Hear! Hear!
Look to Democrats and Mexican Nationalist agitators
I don't want them Here! Here!
If there is a civil war in Mexico, the first thing to fall will be the wall at the border." "Subcomandante" Marcos - Communist, Dictator of the Zapatistas, Aspiring Dictator of Mexico, and Known Reconquista.
Communist? How so? I've heard the guy called everything in the book, but never a communist. What is your source for this?
Dictator of the Zapatistas? Certainly, he's the "public face" of the Zapatistas outside Mexico, and he's concocted a brilliant Public Relations campaign, but I think the Zapatistas would strongly disagree with you. If anything, he's become marginalized within that movement, and there's speculation he's left the country.
"Aspiring Dictator of Mexico"? Don't think so. His, and the Zapatista's, beef seemed to be with the old PRI. Marcos has an ego, that's for sure, but there's a real split now in the Zapatistas between the folks who are willing to work with the government, and those who want a stronger idigenous rights bill. That's democracy, not dictatorship.
"Known reconquista?" The Zapatistas haven't shown much interest in moving to the US -- as I've said, their movement is all about keeping their traditional values, and being able to stay home. The anti-Americanism has more to do with US companies that don't pay a living wage, or don't respect the traditional values of the Mayans, than with any desire to move to the United States.
You're free, of couse, to despise Marcos (and I'm not a big fan), and you may not like the Zapatistas (I'm not sold on them), but that's a different matter than just inventing smears. Besides, neither of us live in Chiapas, so I'm not sure our views on their local politics (and politicans) amount to a hill of beans.
most mexicans say they are mexican first and want spanish as the off. langlish
I understand why some are coming, however that's no excuse for breaking our laws and having total disregard for our culture and sovereignty**************
Very nice of you not to blame.As for their total disregard for our culture and sovereignty,why don't you tell their President,BUSH?
She really isn't looking down upon the poor she is pointing out the irony of the situation - whereby it is the lowest of the low succeeding against the powerful US where the elites could not suceed against the US. I should have made a translation note on this point.
She really isn't part of the elite she is part of the intelligensia.
The answer is not to let in everybody - it is to let in only those who want to be here. I'm with you 100% on that, and see no reason to compromise there.
What hurts me the most is to think that the worst destroyers of our cultural heritage and our freedoms have come, not from another country, but from within our own borders. I for one would welcome people who are willing to work for a living, love their families, and believe in this nation. I am sick of people who are Americans in name only destroying our Nation, our culture and our freedoms; those who wear the mantle of morality while wiping their feet on the American Flag.
should read "not to blame them".
This is the reason that these people are leaving Mexico - not to fulfill the nationalistic fantasies of Mexico's privileged elite, but because they are treated like "cockroaches" by their own countrymen. No wonder Mexico cannot keep her own citizens from fleeing her borders - can you imagine a "respected" journalist from the United States referring to any citizen with such smug vitriol? This may explain why almost every WORKING Mexican immigrant I have personally met (and they are many) has embraced this country with such fervor. I don't blame them for leaving Mexico one bit.
It may have skipped your attention..but I bet you ,just as I do you eat tacco's and I bet that there is a push for bi-lingual workers all over your state..while you are not looking they are turning this into a suburb of Mexico
Mientras dormimos, ellos vienen. Ahora gracias a nuestro Presidente ellos vendrán mientras estamos despiertos. ¡Ud tenía mejor aprenden el español si Ud desea hablar a su gradnchildren!
Wow. Jesse better bone up on his Spanish if he hopes to agitate in LA.
Unfortunately, they are not becoming Americans.
That's very true, you can see many who fly Mexican flags or display them on their cars, speak only Spanish and express a hatred for all things American including the people. Many are not here because they know or love the Constitution, they see the founding fathers as nothing more than white racists. Many seem to admire anything Marxist and have nothing but praise for Castro and the others.
Yike! (AmericanPatrol.com hits the nail on the head.)
As a result I prefer to make the distinction like Meredith Burke that Mexican immigrants are