Judge Backs Parents on Immunizations (Govt Can't Make You: Prove Religious Sincerity, VaccinateKid) [Free Republic]

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CASPER, Wyo. (AP) - A federal judge has approved an agreement barring the state from holding hearings to determine whether parents who object to immunizations for their children have sincere religious convictions about the issue.

U.S. District Judge William Downes approved the settlement Aug. 8 between the Wyoming Department of Health and several parents.

Wyoming officials had made hepatitis B vaccination shots mandatory for entry into the public school system. But some parents refused, saying they objected on religious grounds, and argued that administrative hearings held to determine their sincerity about the issue violated their constitutional right to freedom of religion.

The Wyoming Supreme Court ruled in favor of the parents in March, saying such hearings are illegal.

Debbie Cooper, who has three young children, said Tuesday that she was pleased that the issue had also been approved by the federal judge.

``I think most parents kind of have an instinct for what is best for their children,'' she said.

Steven H. Aden, a lawyer for the Rutherford Institute, a Washington, D.C., civil rights organization which aided the parents, said the hearings probably marked the first time in American history in which a state required residents to prove their ``religious sincerity.''

The state Health Department had made the vaccinations mandatory, contending it had a duty to protect children from disease and that too many non-immunized children would endanger other children.

OK, I'll bite. If your child is not immunized how does he/she endanger other (presumably immunized) children? Only if the other children aren't immunized either. So the only kids your non-immunized kid would endanger are *other* non-immunized kids. Right?

Wyoming officials had made hepatitis B vaccination shots mandatory for entry into the public school system.

If you're a Christian Scientist perhaps? I have a better question, why would you have to argue religion as a reason you didn't want to have your kids immunized? Why wouldn't 'Hey, I don't think mandatory HepB (only transmitted by sexual contact or blood transfusion) immunizations is a good idea for 5 YEAR OLD KIDS!. For heavens sake. I can see this being an issue with medical personnel with the inadvertent blood/fluid transmission issue. I can see this being a PR campaign in the gay or prostitution community. I can't however, make sense out of MANDATORY immunization of FIVE YEAR OLDS. Hey Govt! We are NOT PETS!

GaryNull's Natural Living Website
http://www.garynull.com/issues/Vaccines/index.htm

What is interesting about this is that the only way the State could have become involved in this is if the schools asked them to, otherwise, the parents simply turn the exemption forms over to the schools and the schools enroll the kids.

Apparently, here, the schools said, "We don't believe it is against your religion and we're going to make you prove it by making you participate in a hearing." So, the schools are using their position to cause harm and discontent to the parents of the children whose children's very presence pays the bills. Doesn't sound very bright to me.

Autism and Vaccination (Shows Links between vaccinations and Autism)
http://osiris.sunderland.ac.uk/autism/vaccine.htm

Vaccinations are dangerous, and their efficacy is questionable. All it takes is a little research to see what I'm talking about.

My wife is still suffering from a Tetanus/Diptheria vaccination she got last March. She had non-stop headaches, dizziness and lightheadedness for months. She's a lot better now, but the slightest things can start it all over again, and then it lasts for a few days. She's had a brain MRI and a ton of labwork, and the neurologist said, essentially, "no more vaccines."

You can object (I don't object to vaccines, from what I have read about them), but I didn't know it was considered a religious issue, except perhaps for Jehovah's Witnesses and Christian Scientists.

Hepatits B is transmitted only in a few remote ways. It is not neccessarily a bad thing to be immunized, provided the vaccine is safe and effective.... I have not researched this one, but I would have to way the risks

One vaccine I will not have my children recieve is the chicken pox vaccine, this disease is not worthy of a vaccine it is just a drug company trying to cash in. The death rates and problems from the vaccine more than warrant NOT getting it for a disease that is very low risk of serious harm, especially among healthy children.

I would strongly urge every parent here to think through giving their child a vaccinne that could potentially harm or kill them, for a disease that is no more than an inconvience in nearly all cercumstances. Not to mention the vaccine is only about 70% effective anyway. And lord knows what long term health risks it may expose a child too... it took them 30-40 years to recognize the cancer risk of early vaccines.

Not to mention Diphtheria (about one case per year in the U.S.) or Tetanus (which is NOT caused by rusty nails).

It's not worth the risk. And as I said above, the efficacy of vaccinating against disease is questioned by more and more doctors every year.

If we allow the government to tell us what things we cannot smoke or eat, what grounds do we have to object to mandatory vaccinations?

I think you already know how I feel about the war on drugs so don't take this as approval of such policy. But it seems obvious that the government feels it must have complete control over our bodies and we have allowed this to occur ie; the war on drugs.

It is not neccessarily a bad thing to be immunized, provided the vaccine is safe and effective..

Do you have any idea what's IN these vaccines? You'd be amazed. Do some research, as I have recently, and you'll never look at a vaccine the same again. They have everything from preservatives such as thimerisol (a mercury derivative that can cause major systemic problems) to stray laboratory viruses to you name it.

the way the state laws are writen the only exemptions allowed are religous or medical reasons. the school district where I live tried to deny that any waivers for vaccines existed I had to show them the law. here is where I found the information to slam the school with p.r.o.v.e.

I was pleasantly surprised when we found an M.D. who not only refuses to prescribe antibiotics except in the most extreme emergencies, but will counsel vehemently against vaccinations.

Did you know that if an infant contracts polio it has an almost 100% chance of recovering without any side effects and also receives the added benefit of being given a permenant immunity to polio?

Did you also know that Jonas Salk himself testified that the only cases of polio in America since 1970 were attributed to the oral polio vaccine itself?

Vaccines have not erradicated a single disease in the history of their use. Yet so many people tout their benefits as if it is a foregone conclusion that they are effective.

It is mind boggling to me that anyone would recommend the vaccine for measles. If I hear of an outbreak I plan on rubbing my child up against the measles infested children so that she may obtain immunity in later life. Vaccines do not provide that.

I don't know about this being religious freedom issue. How 'bout making it just a freedom issue.

I'm nether and I object to vaccines not only for my children but myself as well and I must say it drives the navy nuts. read up on vaccine dangers here p.r.o.v.e.

"OK, I'll bite. If your child is not immunized how does he/she endanger other (presumably immunized) children? Only if the other children aren't immunized either. So the only kids your non-immunized kid would endanger are *other* non-immunized kids. Right?"

Okay heres how. One of the priciples of public health is something called "herd immunity". If enough individuals are immunized against a disease it can't get traction and spread. All benefit. If the level of herd immunity drops below a critical percentage, varies based on the communicability of the disease, it has a large enough pool of suseptable individuals and you get an epidemic.

You now have people with damaged immune systems ( aids , cancer, elderly, neonates, pregnant women ) at risk. Also all those unimmunized, or who have let immunization lapse, or were only partially protected by their immunization.

Most of us physcians in the US have little or no experience with Measles, Polio, Thyphus, Cholera, Small Pox, Diptheria etc etc. Thank God , and VACCINES. Almost all of those diseases are out there, waiting, waiting for an opening. All MY kids are immunized. If its so awful ask YOUR doctor if he and his family are immunized, or do you think we would sacrifice our kids?

Here is a letter sent by Dr Viera Scheibner, Principle Research Scientist (Rtd) and now prominent public campaigner, to the Medical Observer, an Australian medical newspaper, on February 19th, 1999.

On February 19, 1999, the Medical Observer published an article by Simon Chapman, in which he issued a challenge to the anti-vaccination movement in Australia.

If vaccines are such a blessing I challenge Simon Chapman to appear on television and allow himself to be injected with all baby vaccines, adjusted to his body weight by a doctor of my choice and in my presence.

There isn't a better way to demonstrate to us that vaccines are safe and effective than by Simon taking his own medicine.

After every lot of vaccines an independent medical doctor and myself would assess Simon's reactions and the general state of health.

Long-term reactions will be followed up for 3 years. If you do not publish my letter and/or Simon does not agree to this easy and safe demonstration, then it will show us all that vaccinators are dishonest and are afraid of their own medicine. In other words: put up or shut up.

I will publicise this proposition and your response on the Internet to ensure that my response to Simon's challenge is widely known.

I was pleasantly surprised when we found an M.D. who not only refuses to prescribe antibiotics except in the most extreme emergencies, but will counsel vehemently against vaccinations.

Yes, and a significant number of those systems were damaged BY VACCINES. My wife is one. Prior to being "immunized" against Diphtheria (lol - big risk) and Tetanus, she was one of those people who NEVER gets sick. Ever. I had influenza for a week this spring, was home for 7 straight days sick as a dog, and she never caught it. Amazing. But since her Dip/Tet shot, her body is a mess.

One of the priciples of public health is something called "herd immunity".

As I mentioned above, I'm not a pet. The only cases that would get it are people who aren't immune. This includes those with weakened immune systems. People who become ill with highly contagious things are usually quarantined. People with compromised immune systems are cautioned to remain *away* from others.

My main objection to this whole issue is the one of FORCE. I am not a herd animal. The *State* is not the zoo keeper. I should have a CHOICE in the matter. This has happened in NY state as well. Same vaccination, same requirement. Funny how NY State will mandate your kid be vaccinated against something not very contagious to an average 5 year old (Risks I read somewhere are lower than risks from vaccination...got this from a FR thread last spring) but also argues for the right to provide an abortion on demand for a 12 year old W/O parents permission. Same argument. The STATE owns your kids, you do not.

It would be all fine and dandy if the vaccines worked but past cases have shown that there have been out breaks in populations that were 100% vaccineated. Just how much formaldahyde can a body take?

It only makes sense because we're conditioned to believe what doctors tell us. It's not their fault, for the most part - they're only passing along what they were taught in school. But in this and many other cases, the medical establishment is wrong wrong wrong. And I'll go so far as to say that the same thing is true about cancer treatment: it's nothing but a big-money grab by the medical establishment, and it kills more people than it saves. But doctors don't know any better, so we get talked into poisoning our bodies with radiation and chemotherapy in order to "kill the cancer," when in actuality all they do is wipe out your immune system and possibly kill you. The theory is that if you kill enough of your body, you MAY kill the cancer cells as well, and hopefully there'll be enough of you left to survive. It happens sometimes. But it's ridiculous.

Go to Dr. Lorrain Day's website HERE and see what she has to say about the medical establishment on her videos. She cured herself of cancer, when her fellow physicians said that without chemo and radiation she was hopeless. She exposes the big money people behind the cancer establishment, and she names names.

no problem that site is what 'saved' my bacon while fighting the school, and I do say t-shirt you post great topics
ones I like anyhow.

My nephew and his wife have 4 kids and three of their children are now Autistic and they FINALLY got their doctor to admit it very well could be from the tons of immunizations the children received as babies.

I have never had a flu shot and so far the people that get the flu shot get the flu anyway. They tell me " well it could have been worse if not the flu shot."

With us it has nothing to do with religion, we are Christians, for us it has to do with wanting to be as healthy as possible and NOT being forced to get a shot if we do not want one or think it is good for us.

Thanks again t-shirt for the ping. Sorry NOT a good answer !!!!! I am against this putting drugs into the body like that.

Ones that are important for people to know about and hopefully to wake them up and get them to become active in the never-ending fight for Liberty against tyranny, glaobalism, socialism, etc.

She uses emotional language - "therapies designed by God.." How is chemotherapy "ungodly"?

"As I mentioned above, I'm not a pet. The only cases that would get it are people who aren't immune. This includes those with weakened immune systems. People who become ill with highly contagious things are usually quarantined. People with compromised immune systems are cautioned to remain *away* from others."

Sure, once they are DIAGNOSED with contagious disease. Thats the rub. By that time they may have had contacts with hundreds of individuals. Our lack of familiarity with these diseases also ensure that the earliest cases won't get the proper diagnosis. As for the immmunocompromised they have to live their lives, eternal quaranteen is not an option.

By the way I am against FORCED IMMUNIZATION. I am a Libertarian by nature. I'll educate you, I'll offer help but thats all. For those of you who doubt the efficacy of vaccines, like the guy who scoffed at Diptheria, where did those epidemics go? I can culture diptheria in any soil sample, like I said its out there.

Here's the serious thing: If these vaccines immunized and only immunized, there would be very little opposition. The problem is they do so much more. Too often, they do harm. Used to be, physicians pledged to "do no harm." Whatever happened to that custom?

It stopped, apparently, when they found out how much money they could make off all those who got diseases, complications, and ailments from the vaccines.

" Used to be, physicians pledged to "do no harm." Whatever happened to that custom?"

'Hey, I don't think mandatory HepB (only transmitted by sexual contact or blood transfusion) immunizations is a good idea for 5 YEAR OLD KIDS!

The reason Hepatitis B vaccine is given to kids is not because kids get the disease- it's an adult disease for the most part. The reason is that kids see doctors on a regular basis and adults don't. We vaccinate kids because that's when we can get to them- if we wait until they're adults they'll never get vaccinated and Hep B is a deadly disease. Also, the vaccine gives lifelong immunity.

Perhaps it will help save others from being pressured into vaccinating their kids.

I was pleasantly surprised when we found an M.D. who not only refuses to prescribe antibiotics except in the most extreme emergencies, but will counsel vehemently against vaccinations.

The reason they are few and far between is that doctors who refuse to prescribe antibiotics when clinically indicated and who counsel against vaccinations are guilty of medical malpractice and should probably have their medical licenses yanked.

You mean because you can pressure & intimidate parents into letting you vaccinate them?

WoW I missed this #12 post you made. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate this thread. I am going to send it to my nephew and his wife. They live in Florida and even have a lawyer working with them about the vaccine and what happened. It is a huge thing and this will be so helpful. Thank you so much.

Although the good antibiotics can do is very clear in many cases, and the chances of them causing a death or disease is rare. Yet the good vaccines do is very unclear and the dangers seem more apparent all the time.

Most of us physcians in the US have little or no experience with Measles, Polio, Thyphus, Cholera, Small Pox, Diptheria etc etc. Thank God , and VACCINES. Almost all of those diseases are out there, waiting, waiting for an opening. All MY kids are immunized. If its so awful ask YOUR doctor if he and his family are immunized, or do you think we would sacrifice our kids?

At least one other voice of reason on this thread. Thanks to vaccination we've eliminated polio in the Western hemisphere, smallpox worldwide and saved the lives of millions. What the anti-vaccination folks don't realize is that many of them (or their kids) would be dead right now if not for near-universal vaccination. The complacency I'm seeing here is disturbing.

If your child is not immunized how does he/she endanger other (presumably immunized) children?

It is for the child's own good. We school administrators know what is best for your child. We are trained to know. Please just put your child on the school bus and don't ask any questions.

When one of my children was born they tried everything to get us to vaccinate when she was first born even though she had bellie-ruben. They even sent in the family doctor to pressure us. But as soon as I suggested he sign a paper accepting full responsibility for any vaccine complications he quickly changed his tune and said it was completely unnecessary at this time.

"We vaccinate kids because that's when we can get to them" --jalisco555 You mean because you can pressure & intimidate parents into letting you vaccinate them?

I'm probably guilty of a poor choice of words. We vaccinate kids because parents are, by and large, pretty good about bringing them in for regular checkups, something adults do for themselves too infrequently.

I'm a pathologist and have often dealt with the consequences of advanced Hepatitis B. Everyone should be vaccinated. As soon as a vaccine is available for Hepatitis C, which I fear far more than I do AIDS, I'll take it.

Thanks for posting this again. I posted the article last night and got only six replies.

[Remind the posting Nazi's about this next time they blast someone for duplicate posts.]

Antibiotics can apparently cure certain diseases. And maybe even certain vitamins can cure certain diseases. And hormones can cure certain diseases, as long as you take them.

The posting NAZI's are usually people who don't want important topics discussed that can inform and wake people up and want to stop activism.

Well, how about urinary tract infections, pneumonia, chlamydia, gonorrhea etc. with antibiotics?

Thanks so much for the heads up. This and the urls should keep me busy for awhile.

In the case of hepatitis B, only by sharing blood or other infectious bodily fluids.

I ask him if there was any chance my daughter could get hepetitis and he told me only if you took her to Mexico or a third world country.

And the only significant other way adults would get it would be IV drug use, prostitution, male homosexual sex.

A shot wide of the mark

Why are public-health authorities forcing lifestyle vaccines on everyone?

By Nancy R. Pearcey

This fall in Westfield, N.Y., a school superintendent threatened to yank a 7th-grade girl from her home and take her into state custody. Her mother, Debra Moore, was thrown into a panic. Her daughter was healthy, well behaved, and made good grades. What had the mother done wrong?

She refused to have the girl vaccinated for hepatitis B, a disease usually caught by drug abusers and the sexually promiscuous.

The government Centers for Disease Control now recommends hepatitis B vaccination for infants and adolescents, even though the CDC website acknowledges that children rarely catch the disease: Those at risk are adults who are "sexually active with more than one sex partner ... ; men who have sex with men; illicit injection drug users"; and certain health-care workers. Yet targeting these populations has "not been a successful public health strategy," as the CDC delicately puts it.

Translation: Targeting these groups is not politically correct. As a result, New York and many other states now require all children to receive the vaccine—despite admitted risks. As Jane Orient, executive director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS), points out, "Government studies show that children under the age of 14 are three times more likely to die or suffer adverse reactions after receiving hepatitis B vaccines than to catch the disease itself." In 1998 France suspended the hepatitis B vaccine requirement for schoolchildren because of evidence that it causes serious neurological problems, with symptoms often resembling multiple sclerosis.

Ms. Moore's daughter had a history of bad reactions to vaccines, so she claimed a medical and a religious exemption—both permitted under state law. Yet when she submitted an affidavit, the superintendent threatened to call Child Protective Services, then required her to submit documentation verifying the "sincerity" of her religious beliefs. New York officials are regularly employing such draconian threats: In Utica, officials threatened to take 77 middle-schoolers into state custody unless they were vaccinated for hepatitis B.

State public-health laws stem from the 18th and 19th centuries when unpredictable epidemics of contagious diseases such as yellow fever, typhoid fever, and smallpox would sweep through crowded, unsanitary port cities, often brought in by diseased immigrants. Under these conditions, it made sense to assign police powers to public-health officials to enforce quarantines. Around the turn of the century, it also became common to exclude unvaccinated children from school during smallpox epidemics.

But in recent years, new vaccines have been developed that appear to cause harmful reactions in susceptible individuals—calling into question the idea of a one-size-fits-all forced vaccination policy. Children now receive 33 doses of 10 different vaccines by age 5. Some doctors worry that children's immature immune systems are being stretched to the limit. Meanwhile we are in danger of using vaccines like hepatitis B as a quick fix for "lifestyle" diseases, instead of addressing the underlying social and behavioral causes.

Even more controversial vaccines are on the horizon. If an HIV vaccine is developed, it will likely be mandated for preadolescent children. And the "Holy Grail" of vaccine researchers is to create a genetically engineered "supervaccine," given orally at birth, containing raw DNA from 20 to 30 viruses, parasites, and bacteria that will insert itself directly into babies' cells.

Meanwhile, the federal government is putting increased pressure on states for blanket immunizations. In 1993, the Clinton administration launched an "Immunization Initiative" and Congress authorized more than $400 million in financial incentives for states that enforce mandatory vaccination by using Social Security numbers to track children from birth. Simultaneously, a grant program rewards state health departments with up to $100 for each fully vaccinated child.

Vaccines have come under increasing public scrutiny since 1982, after NBC-TV showed the documentary "DPT: Vaccine Roulette." The result was a 1986 federal law setting up a compensation system that has awarded more than $1 billion to families whose children have died or developed serious injuries from vaccines, and also mandating new research studies on vaccine safety. Those studies showed that standard immunizations can in rare cases lead to severe consequences, even death, though overall, the benefits have outweighed the risks.

As government officials push for more vaccinations, including some for "lifestyle" diseases, parents should have the right to weigh the risks and benefits—practicing informed consent just as they do with their children's other medical care. The trick will be to determine when vaccines are useful and beneficial, and when they substitute for moral behavior.

(http://www.worldmag.com/world/issue/12-02-00/national_1.asp)

In the case of hepatitis B, only by sharing blood or other infectious bodily fluids.