Posted on 09/04/2001 7:38:14 PM PDT by malakhi
The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles) -- Thread 135
Isn't it remarkable that the Bible says what we each profess to believe, and that every other person is "interpreting"? I think a positive step would be for each of us to acknowledge that our reading of the Bible is interpretive. Then we can argue about whose interpretation is more accurate.
I think we agree that the Law covenant is an everlasting covenant.
I'm with you so far...
We don't agree that because it is a conditional covenant, Israel, nor Gentiles, can meet the righteous requirements of the Law covenant, therefore, in order to have eternal life, we need to get our righteousness from someone else or we are doomed to perdition.
Right, this is the core of our disagreement. I simply see no support for such a viewpoint in the Hebrew scriptures. You find this belief in the writings of Paul, which you accept as scriptural and I do not.
Hosea and Jeremiah point out the problem Israel had all along, and that was an attitude, or a heart problem.
Yes, but the solution they offer is not the abandonment of the Law. Rather it is repentance and a return to observance of the Law.
Consider Christianity's "observance" of the moral law. Let's say you commit a sexual sin. Let's go further and say that you have committed the same sin repeatedly. Let's say that this sin has been repeated by many other Christians as well. By your logic, this clearly demonstrates that God established the moral law to show that we were not capable of following it. Therefore, the solution is to throw out the moral law entirely, and simply trust that God will continue to forgive the sins that we continue to commit. But Jesus says to "go and sin no more". The solution to sin, to a violation of the moral law as a Christian, is to repent and sin no more. THIS IS THE SAME SOLUTION we find expressed in the Hebrew scriptures for any violation of the Law.
At Sinai, they agreed to do things they had not even been told as yet.
When God calls you, do you first ask Him what He wants? Did Samuel? Did Mary? Did Peter? Did Paul? When He says "follow me", you go.
But the result is they agreed to do something they could not do.
When I was a Christian, I agreed to do something that I could not do: I agreed to believe in Jesus as my God and Savior. I wanted to believe. I prayed for faith. Ultimately, I could not believe. Does this void the "new covenant"?
Eventful, and how long are you going to be able to keep up your pace? Does your Rabbi know what they put you through here?
Thursday we had an electrial storm here, that stayed above our house for over 20 minutes, constantly bombarding it with static electric charges, it blew out the circuit board on the air conditioner, the TV, VCR, Garage door opener, cordless phone, but other than that, it was un-eventual. Still :-) Lol
It appears there is little if any difference in these two terms to many people. Maybe you are an unusual person and can separate veneration and adoration from worship, but I highly doubt most people think seriously about the difference in meaning.
I don’t think you are qualified to speak for most people. It’s not that hard of a concept to understand.
Actions always speak louder than words. And you still didn't answer my question.
My actions require you to do some research. Since you are unwilling to do that, you must not really be interested in an answer.
Yeah, previous threads betray that you guys are speaking out both sides of the mouth. You sacrifice prayer, praise, song, etc. - which are all forms of worship biblically and by ya'lls own admittance. Then you say that because it is called veneration it really isn't worship.. even though veneration itself is worship.
Do you always make it a habit of trying to discuss things you don’t understand?
And we're not stupid.
Your posts reveal otherwise.
I'm thinking of startin' a new church, gonna call it: "Minimalist Somewhat-Tribulated Sorta-Raptured Pre-millennialists"
Great. Now there will be 28001 Protestant denominations. You might need to reword the Sabbath Commandment to read something like this:
"I’d like for you to observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you if it’s not to much trouble and you don't have other plans”
Yikes!
Eventful, and how long are you going to be able to keep up your pace? Does your Rabbi know what they put you through here?
I think I've settled into a nice, sustainable rhythm of posting. Most days, if I check in a few times a day, I can keep up with the pace. It has been a little slower over the past 4-5 days than it was in the few weeks preceding. More like what it was before Thread 100 brought some older posters back in.
If it gets too hot for me, I can always sic the Caddies and the Proddies on each other, and take a breather! ;o)
"Thou shalt not commit adultery, unless you really want to."
| Wednesday, September 5, 2001 | ||
|
Have a blessed day!
See above ...
Well that ought to bring in the Democrats. I think that's how they interpret it anyway.
Peter's mother-in-law was sick with a high fever. You know what it is to ache, shiver, and feel listless, maybe to have a pounding head-ache or dizziness, too; to feel burning hot one minute and freezing cold the next. That's how Peter's mother-in-law felt (and without the benefit of aspirin to help, either). We can assume that Peter's family had tried everything they knew to help her, but to no avail. They were at the end of their resources. But then Jesus arrived and with a simple word of command healed her. "And immediately she rose and served them" (Luke 4:39).
Peter's mother-in-law didn't wait around. Moved by relief and gratitude, she got right up and did what needed to be done. Jesus Christ, the Great Physician, has healed each of us, too. He has delivered us from the bondage of sin and separation from God, and he continues to cure our sicknesses of soul: our bitterness, our sense of meaninglessness, our fears, our addictions. His death on the cross was our only remedy for the evils of sin and death. Apart from him, we were as helpless as Peter's mother-in-law.
How should we respond to so great a healing? Should we get busier? Try harder to do more? Not necessarily. Our first response should be to understand the salvation we have received so that this salvation will move us, not always to work harder, but to become unswervingly committed to God's plan for our lives. For two thousand years, Jesus' death and resurrection have transformed countless people dramatically. Why? Because they came to understand that the eternal, spotless Son of God entered into time and endured the cross so that they could be recreated in his very image.
Jesus' cross is immensely powerful. Do you know it? Do you know the immensity of his love for you? Do you know the full scope of the transformation he is capable of working in you? Every day he wants to open your mind to Scripture, release you from patterns of sin, and teach you to love as perfectly as he does. Brothers and sisters, if we look to Jesus, anything is possible! Come gaze on him today.
"Jesus, I come to you asking for more: more of your love and more of your power. Heal me. Transform me. Teach me. I want to rise and serve you."
Understanding the Queen of Heaven is key to understanding the differences between Catholicism and simple ole bible based Christianity. I think we agree on that.
Blathering idiot? KKK? China you've resorted to spewing venom. I think the Lord is using Havoc to rattle your cage and insecurities in what you believe are showing thru.
Isn't it remarkable that the Bible says what we each profess to believe, and that every other person is "interpreting"? I think a positive step would be for each of us to acknowledge that our reading of the Bible is interpretive. Then we can argue about whose interpretation is more accurate.
Unfortunately, that's why we have all the denominations - each clings to their interpretation and are confused. Arguing over accuracy of interpretation takes the focus off the Word itself. Satan enjoys it when we do that.
Right, this is the core of our disagreement. I simply see no support for such a viewpoint in the Hebrew scriptures. You find this belief in the writings of Paul, which you accept as scriptural and I do not.
Do you think maybe that's why Paul said he is the apostle of the Gentiles and that he said he was writing to the Gentiles?
Yes, but the solution they offer is not the abandonment of the Law. Rather it is repentance and a return to observance of the Law.
Do you honestly believe there has been a Jew, other than Jesus, at any time who was able to keep the whole law and thus be just before God? Eccl. 7:20 and Isa. 53:6, among many other OT verses, certainly indicate there was no righteous Jews. Abraham, Moses, Job and others were called righteous by God, but that was in grace because they believed God, not because of their actions.
Consider Christianity's "observance" of the moral law. Let's say you commit a sexual sin. Let's go further and say that you have committed the same sin repeatedly. Let's say that this sin has been repeated by many other Christians as well. By your logic, this clearly demonstrates that God established the moral law to show that we were not capable of following it. Therefore, the solution is to throw out the moral law entirely, and simply trust that God will continue to forgive the sins that we continue to commit. But Jesus says to "go and sin no more". The solution to sin, to a violation of the moral law as a Christian, is to repent and sin no more. THIS IS THE SAME SOLUTION we find expressed in the Hebrew scriptures for any violation of the Law.
This is true for those who believe what you state. Under God's grace, believers have been forgiven all their sins. That doesn't mean they stop sinning, which is impossible as long as we are in the flesh. It means Jesus paid the price for our sins and gave us His righteousness. For that reason, we should not willfully sin, even though we keep on sinning. Grace doesn't justify sin and sins, it justifies the believer's inner man.
Too many people look at a person who commits a particular sin as not being saved. The focus becomes the sin rather than Jesus Christ. It takes time for a person to intake enough of the Scriptures for Christ to begin to live in and through that person. That is the only way we can defeat sin in our lives is by allowing Christ to live in us. We should always think that any sin we are knowingly going to commit was the very reason Jesus Christ went to the cross to die. Our thought processes typically don't focus on that, but on the "pleasure of sin for a season." BTW, under grace, we aren't stoned for violating the Sabbath, for adultry, for being a disobedient and disrespectful child and the many other punishments outlined for the Jews. When was the last time Jews enforced these rules for Jews?
When God calls you, do you first ask Him what He wants? Did Samuel? Did Mary? Did Peter? Did Paul? When He says "follow me", you go.
God only speaks to us today through His completed Word. We do not hear voices, including the small still voice - that's us, nor do we have miraculous signs and visions today. Believers have something far better, the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in us.
When I was a Christian, I agreed to do something that I could not do: I agreed to believe in Jesus as my God and Savior. I wanted to believe. I prayed for faith. Ultimately, I could not believe. Does this void the "new covenant"?
"Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." (Romans 10:17) We believe what God's Word tells us about our condition and His solution, at least His solution under the age of Grace. The new covenant is not voided because it is unconditional for us, so whether we believe or not, God is faithful to His word. The new covenant is for Jews; Gentiles today are beneficiaries of this covenant, however, just as they are of portions of the Abrahamic covenant.
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