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HARRY BROWNE ANSWERS CRITICS: "When will we learn? – part 2"
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Friday, September 14, 2001 | Harry Browne

Posted on 09/14/2001 1:30:09 AM PDT by ouroboros

Friday, September 14, 2001


Harry Browne Harry Browne
When will we learn? – part 2


By Harry Browne


© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

My article last Tuesday "When Will We Learn?" provoked more controversy than anything I've ever written. In case there was any misunderstanding, here is what I believe:

  1. The terrorist attack was a horrible tragedy and I feel enormous sympathy for those who were personally affected by it. I wrote my article hoping that, however unlikely, it might be possible to prevent such a thing from ever happening again.

  2. I hope anyone responsible for the attack who didn't die in it will be found, tried, and punished appropriately.

  3. Terrorism by definition is the killing of innocent people in order to bring about some political or social change.

  4. Terrorism may cause some changes in the short term, but it never leads to a conclusive victory, because it provokes a never-ending cycle of escalating violence on both sides.

  5. The U.S. government has engaged in acts of terrorism over the past few decades – bombing and starving innocent people in foreign countries, supposedly to force their leaders to make changes the U.S. government desires. Terrorism doesn't become "policing" or "justice" merely because it is our government doing it.

  6. All Iraqis are not Saddam Hussein; all Serbs aren't Slobodan Milosevic; all Afghanis (or Saudis) are not Osama Bin Laden.

  7. Killing innocent people in retaliation for the sins of other people isn't justice – it is terrorism. The terrorists were wrong to kill Americans to satisfy their grievances against American foreign policy. And to react to them by killing innocent foreigners would also be terrorism.

  8. You can't make productive decisions at a time when your mind is clouded by anger resentment, or thoughts of revenge.

The reactions I've received have been roughly 50-50 regarding my position. Here are some of the objections people have made against my position.

Timing

"This was a bad time for you to say, 'I told you so' in such a poor fashion."

I'm not saying, "I told you so." I'm trying to stop future madness – against Americans and against foreigners. Should I wait until after our military invades Afghanistan before speaking out?


"Now, of all times, is the time when we must support one another for the best."

That doesn't mean supporting the ill-conceived policies that led to this event.


"It is time for our people to pull together against these sick terrorists. We could use your help too."

To do what? Encourage our politicians to continue doing the very things that led to this? You're demonstrating why I had to write the article. If we stand behind our leaders now, letting them speak for us "as one voice," nothing will change. We will continue to see more acts by our government that will lead to more terrorist attacks on the U.S.


"Don't tell me to 'stop the hysteria.' This event merits hysteria, anger, sadness, and fear. I will be hysterical because it is the only thing I can do to show my countrymen that I mourn them."

Hysteria creates lynch mobs and more killing of innocent people. Grief, anger, and resentment are all natural reactions to what happened. But letting your emotions make bad decisions is not a productive reaction.


"What's done is done and now we're in the middle of this terrible mess. Maybe you're right, maybe we should not be surprised that something was bound to happen. But, now what? We don't need people criticizing our past mistakes at this moment. Save that for later. Right now we need immediate action."

If we don't understand the past mistakes, the "immediate action" taken will simply repeat those mistakes. Is that what you want?

My Motives

"You have lost my support by your political posturing in a time of crisis."

Political posturing? Do you really think I expected to receive adulation for writing an article that goes so sharply against current public opinion?


"It sickens me that you would use this tragedy this way."

In what way? To try to stop it from happening again? To try to stop our politicians from running off and bombing more innocent people? As a normally public voice, should I sit quietly by and not point out that our politicians are continually putting innocent Americans in harm's way by terrorizing innocent foreigners?

I understand your outrage and emotional reaction, but we must hold our own politicians accountable for the anger they are causing around the world with their careless, dangerous, show-off tactics.


"Please leave the United States. You do not deserve to remain here with this type of un-American diatribe which only serves to support the voices of moderation."

I thought this supposed to be a free country in which everyone was allowed to speak his mind. I guess I misunderstood. I didn't realize it was a crime to try to stop a lynching.

The Libertarian Party

"Using this event as a means to bolster the Libertarian party is despicable and it is disgusting."

It appears that standing up for what one believes isn't a way to bolster the popularity of the Libertarian Party. But that's what Libertarians often do – especially when no one else will.


"You have forever ended any chance of my supporting the Libertarian party, unless you resign from any and all leadership positions immediately."

You'll be pleased to know I don't hold any leadership position in the Libertarian Party. I am a private citizen who grieves for what the politicians have done to my country and to the innocents who die in America and abroad. Many Libertarians disagree with my position, so you shouldn't judge the Libertarian Party by me.

Retaliation

"We must deter the next attack with the fiery sword of vengeance, not some limp, liberal, why-can't-we-be-let-alone weak response."

We have done that already – bombing Libya, invading Panama, bombing a perfume factory in the Sudan, bombing Afghanistan. Did those "fiery sword(s) of vengeance" deter the next attack?


"Bomb Kabul into oblivion."

As I recall, Kabul is the capital of Afghanistan, which is run by the same "Freedom Fighters" our own government gave so much money and military hardware to in the 1980s. Before we run off bombing innocent people (or is every Afghani guilty of the World Trade Center bombing?), shouldn't we question the American foreign policy that put those people in power in Afghanistan? Or is it bad timing to bring that up now?


"Once you know the face of your enemy destroy him completely and you will never need fight him again. America is at war. To win a war it must be fought in totality."

A war against whom? Against people like the one million Iraqis who have died of starvation or disease because of the American blockade? Against people like the innocents who died in the bombings of the Sudan and Afghanistan?

Everytime our leaders say, "We must make sure this will never happen again," they do something to assure that it will happen again. I wrote my article in the vain hope it might help people to think twice before demanding the wrong action.


"Do you think these terrorists can really be reasoned with?"

I didn't say they could. I said we shouldn't give them legitimate reasons to direct their misguided zeal at the U.S.


"Don't you think a soft response would just encourage more terrorism?"

I hope the people who were involved are found, tried, and punished. I don't consider that a soft response. But I don't want any more innocent people hurt – Americans or foreigners.


"This is not the time to run and bury our heads in the sand. Someone has to stand up to bullies wherever they are! Like the Nazis; the only good Religious Fundamentalist is one that is in heaven! Not only is it a time for the U.S. to take action but to OCCUPY ALL ARAB LANDS, since their Religious leaders 'preach' the Jihad."

Did I mention that there was a lot of hysteria and a lynch-mob sentiment right now?


"You totally lost your credibility with me when you suggest that any military response will basically serve no purpose."

The U.S. went to Vietnam to stop the Communist dominos from falling, and the entire region fell to the communists. The U.S. invaded Panama, supposedly to end drug-dealing there, and today Panama is more overrun with the drug trade than ever. After years of arming Saddam Hussein, the U.S. invaded Iraq to get rid of him, but he is still held up as a terrible threat to the world. The U.S. bombed Libya to teach terrorists a lesson; so the terrorists hijacked the Pan American plane over Scotland.

Perhaps you could give me an example of where U.S. military response in the past several decades has achieved any purpose.

Obviously, the individuals involved in the attacks should be found, prosecuted, and punished. But going to war against another country or some vague conspiracy will solve no more than the examples I just gave.


"At this time, past wrongful deeds committed by Americans should not play a role in our reaction to this horrible event. We have to retaliate once we confirm who is responsible. Otherwise, even more horrific events are sure to occur in the future."

We have retaliated in the past, and still horrific events followed. What I'm hoping for is a different kind of reaction this time – one that will actually change American policy so that we never again suffer what happened this week.

Corrections & Caution

"I would like to point out that the airliner destroyed over Scotland was a PanAm plane, not TWA."

You are right. In my haste to get the article finished, I was careless in relying on my imperfect memory and not looking it up.


"I put my Harry Browne for President stickers back up in my dorm room yesterday."

Please, take them down before you get lynched.

More to come.


Harry Browne was the 2000 Libertarian presidential candidate. More of his articles can be read at HarryBrowne.org, and his books are available at HBBooks.com.


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
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HARRY BROWNE: "When will we learn?"
1 posted on 09/14/2001 1:30:09 AM PDT by ouroboros
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: ouroboros
When will we learn to revert to the nativist isolationism that enabled threats to civilization like Hitler and Stalin to thrive and threaten our very existence? Been there, done that... Harry. What Browne describes does not involve "learning", the operative word you are looking for is "forgetting." Harry Browne feels that if we just recognized that the world hates us, and that we are responsible for that hatred, we can avoid making the same mistakes that we made that caused this attack. This would require that we forget everything we have learned in the 20th century. The number one mistake we have made in Browne's estimation, was to establish a country that dares defend itself and its allies. I guess we must undo this mistake at once to redress our crimes against the Bin Laden terrorists. If we had just crawled into our holes, just shrunk from danger, just avoided the wrath of international murderers and tyrants, we could sleep peacefully, ... in our cells and in our graves.
3 posted on 09/14/2001 2:41:03 AM PDT by Richard Axtell
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To: ouroboros
For crying out loud Harry, at least have the guts to stand by what you wrote, no matter how sickenly vile it was.
4 posted on 09/14/2001 2:53:36 AM PDT by TomB
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To: ouroboros
We are dealing with an evil not seen since Hitler. I assure you Hitler wasn't defeated by merely "bringing him to justice." We, to put it bluntly, bombed and shot the crap out of his forces and that's what it will take to defeat these modern day nazis.
5 posted on 09/14/2001 2:56:04 AM PDT by arielb
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To: arielb
As much as I like Harry, what happened to the to person who said that we should withdraw our troops from around the world and just nuke anyone who attacked us? Well Harry, nukes don't just kill military and government officials - this is war and we we're going to fight it as such. And guess what - innocent civilians died in WWII from Allied bombs and guns. We did what was necessary to defend this country and we'll do it again.
6 posted on 09/14/2001 3:01:56 AM PDT by garbanzo
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To: ouroboros
Caught, tried, punished. Fine. But the people who "didn't do it, but support it" must be made to believe that terrorism is not a good idea.

The legitimate greviences of the middle east are few and far between. None of them justify terrorism, because terrorism just delays resolution of the Palestinian situation.

Holy War is one of the singularly screwball ideas of history. Christians tried it a thousand years ago, had a few initial successes, and eventually got severly thumped. Christians don't try to spread their beliefs by violent force anymore. It's a matter of growing up as a culture.

We do not need to level any countries. But we need to severly thump those who support holy war.

7 posted on 09/14/2001 3:07:34 AM PDT by js1138
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To: TomB
"For crying out loud Harry, at least have the guts to stand by what you wrote, no matter how sickenly vile it was."

He is standing by what he wrote. And exactly what is 'vile' about it. The part about punishing the terrorists who attacked us? The part about not killing innocent people? Maybe the part about how this country's constant intrevention into the affairs of other nations contributed to us becoming targets?

One good thing that could come out of this mess is that, after the terrorists and their supporters die a horrible death, we hold the gov't responsible for failing to defend us (one of the few constitutionally-authorized responsibilities of the fed gov't) and we start ending our meddling in the affairs of other countries.

Think about it, a U.S. gov't that has the power to stick its nose into the business of any country on earth is ALWAYS going to have the power to stick its nose into YOUR business, and mine.

8 posted on 09/14/2001 3:16:23 AM PDT by LIBERTARIAN JOE
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To: Richard Axtell
What Browne describes does not involve "learning", the operative word you are looking for is "forgetting."

Amen!

"Those who fail to learn from history, will repeat it."

Everyone with a functional brain knows that ignoring the criminals WILL NOT make them go away. Only gutless cowards DO NOTHING.

9 posted on 09/14/2001 3:19:07 AM PDT by truth_eagle
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To: js1138
But the people who "didn't do it, but support it" must be made to believe that terrorism is not a good idea.

Would that apply to us in the case of the decimated aspirin factory? the cluster bombing of innocent civilians in Serbia? Iraq?

I guess when we use our military might to control political events in other nations (or distract attention from the corruption of our own government), it is a righteous "new world order" and and every man woman and child should be damn grateful we are stuffing it to them. When a few are less than grateful, and retaliate, they are all terrorists and must be wiped from the face earth.

10 posted on 09/14/2001 3:41:34 AM PDT by another1
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To: Richard Axtell
One thing that Browne is definitely right on is the amount of hysteria and revenge thinking. I always thought before seeking revenge, you should be safe and secure in your own personal area and then you should seek revenge. There is very little mention of any concerns regarding security in this country while most of the comments are directed towards taking a strike force to Afghanistan and bombing them unmercifully.

This tragedy and attack took place in this country. This did not take place in some foreign land. Am I to believe that the first concern should be for revenge and to hell with any security or safety concerns of the remainder of our people here in the United States? Does anybody think that this group that pulled these attacks are the only terrorists that made it into this country?

We better take care of our own and round up the remaining terrorists in our own country as part of the revenge mentality. There is no sweeter revenge than to catch a group that are plannubg death and destruction before they have the opportunity to do so. The public should decide what can be done in the area of internal security and act accordingly.

Do thousands of illegal aliens pouring across our borders seem like national security? Do thousands of illegal aliens of every nationality within this country with no documentation of any kind sound like a good idea? Does training of pilots of every nationality on our own air bases soundx like good national security? Does bringing China over to explain our traffic control system so they can go back to every terrorist nation and brief them on our control system indicate good security? While we have thousands of troops all over the world, does leaving our power stations, dams, water treatment plants, public transportation systems, and other infastructure unguarded seem to be a reasonable thing to be doing? Does disarming the public which has been the cornerstone of a political faction in the Congress sound like a good idea in the wake of a terrorist war against the United States?

We had a good security system in place during WW II because it was a necessity. There were only a handful of sabotuers that made it through our defenses. There is no reason we can't have the same at this time. We are starting behind the eight ball because we have been so lax and thousands of potential enemy are here but they can be rounded up with the cooperation of local citizens. Let's get on the ball and get some security in this country and the terrorist revenge will take care of itself.

If we can disable Bin Laden's organization in this country, we can get him eventually. If we continue to let him operate through cells in this country, we are just playing with his rules and he will strike again. Get security conscious!

11 posted on 09/14/2001 3:51:37 AM PDT by meenie
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: meenie
Do thousands of illegal aliens pouring across our borders seem like national security? Do thousands of illegal aliens of every nationality within this country with no documentation of any kind sound like a good idea? Does training of pilots of every nationality on our own air bases soundx like good national security? Does bringing China over to explain our traffic control system so they can go back to every terrorist nation and brief them on our control system indicate good security? While we have thousands of troops all over the world, does leaving our power stations, dams, water treatment plants, public transportation systems, and other infastructure unguarded seem to be a reasonable thing to be doing? Does disarming the public which has been the cornerstone of a political faction in the Congress sound like a good idea in the wake of a terrorist war against the United States

Dittoes and bump

13 posted on 09/14/2001 4:11:53 AM PDT by Dan De Quille
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To: ouroboros
The terrorist attack was a horrible tragedy and I feel enormous sympathy for those who were personally affected by it but I'm not above pissing on the grave of those innocent people to make a political point.
14 posted on 09/14/2001 4:14:06 AM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: ouroboros
I find it interesting that people who criticize Bush are now backing off, and are forced to defend themselves. Could it be they are WRONG??? LMAO
15 posted on 09/14/2001 4:15:58 AM PDT by VRWC For Truth
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To: another1
Would that apply to us in the case of the decimated aspirin factory? the cluster bombing of innocent civilians in Serbia? Iraq?

To the best of my knowledge, Serbia neither attacked us nor gave aid and comfort to anyone who attacked us. They were in the middle of a civil war -- perhaps behaving badly, but within their own boarders.

If the aspirin factory had been what we called it, yes, I'd support bombing it.

Other countries have legitimate gripes against us. Fine. Take it to court.

Germany had legitimate grievances in 1930, us I doubt that Hitler could have been reasoned with. Just because someone has legitimate gripes doesn't make them sane and reasonable.

16 posted on 09/14/2001 4:18:28 AM PDT by js1138
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To: ouroboros
Congratulations to Harry for bravely telling it like it is. Although I think the U.S. Government should make capturing/killing Bin Laden their highest priority, I suspect that they are afraid to do so because a new militant Islamic leader would almost certainly emerge thereafter, just as they were afraid to take out Saddam Hussein for the same sort of reason. It's much easier to drop a few bombs on "infrastructure" and peons and pretend to be going after terrorists than to actually do anything useful.

In the meantime, the Republicans and Democrats will use this week's events simply to justify ever more bloated budgets while silencing any talk of significant tax cuts. Why Americans continue to reward the Demo-Republican alliance for doing such a lousy job at everything they touch is beyond my comprehension.

17 posted on 09/14/2001 4:19:28 AM PDT by ravinson
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To: ouroboros
I would like to point out that Harry Brown, has long stated his position against terrorism and for the defense of america, at least 10 years.

He said the same things in his 1992 campaign. He was the first, the leading, and for the most part, the ONLY significant political figure that has called for a change in our military to be defensive, not aggressive. He has long advocated the majority of our military budget should be spent defending our borders, building a missle defense system, and preventing terrorism. He also was the first to advocate the assassinating of terrorists and their leaders that kill americans, instead of the usual civilian retalliation bombing of foreign cities.

Everyone else talking today about terrorism is a "Johnny Come Lately". We should have listened to Harry Brown 10 years ago. Instead of deploying our troops all over the world in over 100 different countries under clinton, we should have instead defended our borders from terrorism and attack.

18 posted on 09/14/2001 4:26:29 AM PDT by waterstraat
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To: ouroboros
I didn't say they could. I said we shouldn't give them legitimate reasons to direct their misguided zeal at the U.S.

Come on Harry... This is a cultural war. Radical Islam doesn't like Western Civilization. Look at France.. They've fallen over and kissed the ass of every terrorist country in the world, yet they still get bombed by em...

Now a case can be made that we made a mistake in the late 1940s by throwing our support behind the creation of Israel, which seems to be one of the biggest reasons the Islamic countries hate us.

Now if Harry Browne were President and enacted his foreign policy lets say and the radical Islamic nations are on the verge of overruning Israel and the Jews asked for our help. Not troops but military supplies; would President Browne refuse on the grounds that our foreign policy must remain neutral???

19 posted on 09/14/2001 4:27:33 AM PDT by VinnyTex
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To: Dan De Quille
Do thousands of illegal aliens pouring across our borders seem like national security? Do thousands of illegal aliens of every nationality within this country with no documentation of any kind sound like a good idea? Does training of pilots of every nationality on our own air bases soundx like good national security? Does bringing China over to explain our traffic control system so they can go back to every terrorist nation and brief them on our control system indicate good security? While we have thousands of troops all over the world, does leaving our power stations, dams, water treatment plants, public transportation systems, and other infastructure unguarded seem to be a reasonable thing to be doing? Does disarming the public which has been the cornerstone of a political faction in the Congress sound like a good idea in the wake of a terrorist war against the United States

Dittos!! except it is now millions flooding into our country, not thousands.Furthermore, as a policy started under clinton, our immigration offices have been forced to stop doing background checks which used to prevent criminals from coming over here.

20 posted on 09/14/2001 4:29:42 AM PDT by waterstraat
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