WE are either soverign citizens or subjects of an oppressdive ruler and it's time to make up your mind as to which category you wish to fall under. You have just witnessed the fallacy of blanket protection. It didn't work so instead of admitting the obvious, instead of giving up power ove our lives by government, we will experience even more oppression until you won't recognize this coutry anymore. Please speak out!

Every citizen should be armed with Glazer safety rounds on these airliners and what idiot would try to take on a plane load of armed people? This never would have happened.

The ultimate victory of terrorism against the USofA is the destruction of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I predict we will lose.

Regards

J.R.

I agree that blanket security, as you call it, failed, and it looks like some people want to use this attack as an excuse to reduce what freedoms we have left, but I would never want to be in an airplane with a bunch of unknowns all packing heat. I doubt that you would get very many pilots to go along with that proposal, either.

You said:"Lets make this perfectly clear, this terrorist attack was not against the citizens of this country."

Uh, yes it was. Regardless of the statement that the terrorists were trying to make, they killed U.S. citizens.

You said:"It was an attack against the failed policies of this government."

That was likely the statement that I referred to above. The ENTIRE American populace is at risk and is considered a target. If you think that if we change our policies to NOT fail that we are no longer at risk, then you are mistaken, and have been misled. FWIW, the policies that you feel, (and those that sponsor terrorism feel) we have failed at, is not embracing the policies of those countries. The policies that include, human rights violations, suppression of free speech, suppression of the right to worship as we choose, things like the Bill of Rights protects.

You said:"The security measures being instituted are not for the safety of the average citizen but, are being put in place to protect thosre who are making these failed policies."

Of all your statements, this appears to be the most incorrect. Please SPECIFY the security measures being put in place that you have a problem with.

You said:"We are now being treated as the enemies of government."

Really? I hadn't noticed any of my rights being infringed. By chance, are you a libertarian?

Yes. When the government refused to enforce any of the 20,000 gun control laws already on the books -- misguided liberals responded by calling for more gun control laws.

You are correct, we were attacked because of the failed foreign policies of our federal government.

And, just like their failure to enforce gun control laws, the attackers succeeded because ALL of our "veil" of federal agencies failed to do their jobs. The Justice Department leads the pack with INS and the FBI. The whole federal intelligence infrastructure failed us. Treasury failed us (Customs). Transportation failed us (FAA). Defense failed us (intelligence and military response).

The Congress failed us because they did not hold accountable the Executive Department.

The airlines failed us because they blew-off security regulations.

American citizens must now hold accountable a government that has failed to its job.

Calls for more laws are nothing more than an obfuscation of their collective failures.

We must hold accountable the government, and we must hold accountable the individuals that failed to do their jobs in positions of trust to protect America and her people.

Instead, to protect their own sorry asses, they are responding by attempting to oppress us, deny us our rights -- and hold us accountable for their own myriad failures.

Don't tread on me !!

This attack screamed LOOK! We should be looking at what Shell Oil and the likes of Goldman Sacks are doing under the banner of the U.S..

"Lets make this perfectly clear, this terrorist attack was not against the citizens of this country."

The big lie technique.

I hadn't noticed any of my rights being infringed.

Not to worry, I'm certain some opportunistic lawgiver will take advantage of this terrible event to further their agenda, so be prepared to watch and act against it. The laws passed quickly after OKC are proof of this.

By chance, are you a libertarian?

Don't know if conway is, but I am. Are you trying to drive wedges or create animosity and further a personal agenda here, friend?

Possibly you should review the proposals put forth by Congress and Ashcroft. Yes, the attacks were against the physical bodies of innocents and I weep for them. Why? I, like most of them, am going about the job of survival and know nothing of this cauldron brewing against me or why.

I belong to the Citizens Party with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as our platform.

Perhaps you should look at what I gave up during WWII and quit griping. Rights do come back, but during a war you need restrictions. It is war, after all.

Of all your statements, this appears to be the most incorrect. Please SPECIFY the security measures being put in place that you have a problem with.

Almost ALL of them: National ID Card, Know Your Customer, Biometric ID scans, taking plastic utenstils out of airports, Federal Bailout of airlines whose lax security contributed to these disasters, closure of US airspace to law abiding civilian pilots.

How many more do you want ??

I hadn't noticed any of my rights being infringed.

The fact that you haven't noticed is EXACTLY the problem. Most Americans just simply haven't noticed. Like a flock of sheep, they keep grazing peacefully, without alarm, while the wolves surround them and eat a few of their neighbors. History is full of similar examples -- complacency is what will destroy us ultimately.

You said; "Please SPECIFY the security measures being put in place that you have a problem with."

--------- Taking away my pocket knife is ludicrous. -- Flt. 93 is perfect example of the need for armed passengers, crews, & marshalls.

You said:" Really? I hadn't noticed any of my rights being infringed. By chance, are you a libertarian"?

------------ Not very observant, are you? By chance, are you a Republocrat?

"The big lie technique."

---------- You oughta know, blind pig. --- Being the biggest practioner on FR.

You sir, are so correct! Once I was flying from LA to Miami and the f**ing stewardess b**ch would not give me a 3rd drink. Mind you. This was in 1st class! She said I'd been drinking before I got on the plane, but what if I was! Its within my rights. Like it was any business of hers, anyway. If I'd had my Glock, I bet she'd have moved her tail quick to get me what I already paid for. Damn sure!

You said:"Not to worry, I'm certain some opportunistic lawgiver will take advantage of this terrible event to further their agenda, so be prepared to watch and act against it."

And until that time occurs, I will support the legislative and executive branches of this country.

You also said:"Don't know if conway is, but I am. Are you trying to drive wedges or create animosity and further a personal agenda here, friend?"

ME with an agenda? Did you actually READ the original post? Sounds like the divisiveness is going on above friend.

I respect your generation (my parent's generation) more than words can express.

Yes, supply side restrictions were lifted after WWII.

The slow ebb of restrictions against our freedoms and liberties have NEVER been lifted nor rolled back that I'm aware of.

Please tell me what prior restriction on your fundamental freedom or liberty has ever been restored?

You can't register the birth of a newborn child in this country without an application for a social security number.

You can't pay cash for a new car without being reported to the jackbooted thugs.

And, now the government wants to monitor your every activity, creating a massive relational database that correllates 14 separate state and federal registries.

I'm agin' it !!

ME with an agenda?

This is not the first itme you have asked that question of someone you disagree with, so it makes me wonder.

Did you actually READ the original post?

Of course.

Sounds like the divisiveness is going on above friend.

I don't disagree, but why exacerbate it?

Why bring libertarianism into it?

We seem to be favorite targets as of late, and there are some taking advantage of that as of late.

You said:"Almost ALL of them: National ID Card

This came from the fringe, and has NOT been proposed. If you can site a specific bill or proposal OTHER than from the tin-foil hat crowd, I will withdraw my argument.

Know Your Customer,

Asking for ID before boarding an A/C is an infringement on your rights? Sorry, that doesn't hold. You have no Constitutionally secured rights to fly in an A/C. You do have the right to travel amongst states and wherever you want. The gov't is NOT stopping travel.

Biometric ID scans,

Another fringe idea. However, this is probably going to become a reality based on the needs and desires of private industry.

taking plastic utenstils out of airports

WOW! Now you're talking. My right to keep and bear plasticware is being infringed. Puh-leeeze. Considering that the sky marshal program is just now starting to be put into affect, this seems like a viable idea. Considering the hijackers last week used something very similar to take over airplanes.

Federal Bailout of airlines whose lax security contributed to these disasters

Now you're talking out both sides. You want the airlines to keep security loose, but you want to blame the airlines for security lapses. No, I don't think it's right that Fed money is being spent to fix the faiing airline industry, HOWEVER, the airline industry employs HOW MANY people? Cool, let's just let all the airlines go broke, have no flights ANYWHERE, and feel proud of how we managed to keep the government from interfering in the lives of all those unemployed people.

"closure of US airspace to law abiding civilian pilots."

Yep, this is a TEMPORARY measure taken when the country is on a war time footing. I feel for them, and can understand their concern. HOWEVER, they have the potential to interfere with the movement of troops and A/C. People MUST be able to embrace the BIG picture here. There are far more important things going on that concern ALL OF AMERICA. Not just the radical right, nor just the radical left. I am unwilling to sacrifice my liberty, BUT, the rules that have recently been put into place have not infringed on anyone's rights.

"How many more do you want ??"

ONE that actually infringes on someone's rights.

You said: This is not the first itme you have asked that question of someone you disagree with, so it makes me wonder."

You are DEFINITELY mistaken. I just reviewed ALL my posts and have NEVER asked the question before.