Get used to seeing this. Posted on 09/25/2001 12:03:49 AM PDT by Aerial
Ashcroft pressing 'police state, USA' (WorldNet Daily Link to Story "Source" above)</font size>Ashcroft seeks sweeping powers
WASHINGTON, Sept. 24 — The United States will remain vulnerable to terrorist attacks unless law enforcement agencies are given a wide range of new counterterrorism tools, including improved wiretap capabilities and easier access to voice mail and Internet users’ personal information, Attorney General John Ashcroft told lawmakers Monday.
ASHCROFT ISSUED his warning in testifying before the House Judiciary Committee in favor of far-reaching measures to ramp up the war on terrorism, telling lawmakers, “Every day that passes with outdated statutes and the old rules of engagement is a day that terrorists have a competitive advantage.”
Ashcroft urged quick passage of new police powers sought by the Bush administration, including the authority to detain aliens suspected of ties to terrorists indefinitely and without the right to appeal. The administration also wants wiretap evidence obtained in other countries in violation of the Fourth Amendment to be admissible in court.
In addition, the administration is asking for secret court authorization for wiretaps, longer jail terms for terrorists, access to users’ Internet information without a court order and authority to review telephone voice-mail messages with only a search warrant.
Some of the measures raised red flags for Democrats and advocates of civil liberties. Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, the committee’s ranking Democrat, said he and others were “deeply troubled” by the constitutional implications.
COVERAGE OF HEARING RESTRICTED
After Ashcroft finished speaking, committee Democrats called civil liberties and free-speech advocates to testify, including representatives of the American Civil Liberties Union and People for the American Way, which have echoed some of Conyers’ concerns.
But while Ashcroft’s testimony was open to television cameras, the committee’s Republican staff ordered camera crews to leave, including those of C-SPAN, the public interest network available on cable television systems nationwide, NBC News’ Mike Viqueira reported.
Print reporters and members of the general public were allowed to remain, meaning the speakers’ comments could be reported, but none of them would be available for Americans to see or hear for themselves.
House rules state, “Whenever a hearing or meeting conducted by a committee or subcommittee is open to the public, those proceedings shall be open to coverage by audio and visual means,” Viqueira reported.
“Past experience has taught us that today’s weapon against terrorism may be tomorrow’s law against law-abiding Americans,” Conyers said.
Ashcroft said he was sure the bill would pass constitutional muster. “We are conducting this effort with a total commitment to protect the rights and privacy of all Americans and the constitutional protections we hold dear,” he said.
(Direct article source at MSNBC HERE
To Tell The Truth -- Will the real terrorists please stand up.
Yeah - scary stuff. While the primary focus right now should understandably be on the war effort, I must say I've been chilled by some of the comments I've heard from folks on TV. Not only will this bolster the efforts of people already fighting to take our freedoms away, but it will also cause others to join the cause in "good faith". We must be vigilant.
Focus right now should be war on which terrorists? All of them or just the ones easiest to identify and point to so that they can be captured and held accountable? The following post to another thread provides identifications vital to the freedom and safety of all people.
Clearly, the terrorists have won. 80% of sheeple support a nazi I.D. card.
Who is responsible for the 9-11 terrorist attacks, U.S. government intervention or terrorists? Answer: terrorists. Who is responsible for the loss of liberty from the "Homeland Security Department" or if ID cards are mandatory? Answer: politicians and bureaucrats.
If we thought the DEA & BATF have pissed all over the former Constitution, wait till we see what the "Homeland Security Department" gestapo does. The 9-11 terrorists stole some of every American's liberty. No doubt the terrorists would claim they acted to make the world a safer more secure place to live. Now the politicians and bureaucrats want to steal more American's liberty to make it a safer and more secure place to live. Different modus operandi, similar stated cause, same effect -- liberty stolen.
Considering how much the politicians and bureaucrats have trashed the U.S. constitution over the last 150 years, all that burden is suffered by each citizen every day. How many potential Einsteins, Thomas Edisons, Henry Fords, Bill Gates and other heroic value producers were expendable since the Civil war? How much liberty and value is lost each and every day from politicians and bureaucrats crimes against the constitution and we the people? And they're the "good" guys?!
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." - Ayn Rand in Atlas Shrugged
Gestapo seeking a family's National ID Cards: What?! You don't have your papers. Take the alleged Mr. and Mrs. Smith in for questioning. Take the two children to the processing center.
"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? The organizers maintain that society, when left undirected, rushes headlong to its inevitable destruction because the instincts of the people are so perverse. The legislators claim to stop this suicidal course and to give it a saner direction. Apparently, then, the legislators and the organizers have received from Heaven an intelligence and virtue that place them beyond and above mankind.
They would be the shepherds over us, their sheep. Certainly such an arrangement presupposes that they are naturally superior to the rest of us. And certainly we are fully justified in demanding from the legislators and organizers proof of this natural superiority." -- Frederick Bastiat, The Law (1850)
Especially since they allow to pass such blatant insults to our intelligence. For example: "But I didn't inhale". "It depends on the meaning of what is, is." I didn't have an affair with Jennifer Flowers." "I didn't have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinski." The constitution clearly states one and only one recourse when a President is impeached: removal from office. Legislators know how to violate their oath of office.
Prohibition was a total failure but the War On some Drugs will be a success. So will the War On Poverty be a success. Legitimize Ruby Ridge, Legitimize mass murder of seventy-eight innocents at Waco. How many innocents have been terrorized, physically injured, sometimes murdered and financially deprived by no-knock raids? How about SWAT agents in black Ninja-style ski masks with duct tape hiding their badge ID numbers. Recently and still ongoing, the government terrorized -- is terrorizing -- 1500 farmers at Klamath Falls basin and in the process destroyed the farmers livelihoods/businesses. And the biggest "good-guy" liberty thief -- the IRS -- how many thousands of innocents have been physically, emotionally and financially terrorized by the IRS criminal investigation division (CID).
Seems to me that the "good" guys -- politicians and bureaucrats -- are a huge part of the problem.
Clearly, the terrorists have won. 80% of sheeple support a nazi I.D. card.
Which fear promoting terrorist won?
You can easily test your theory to prove to yourself that it is not the case. Hold the phone up to your ear and talk with switch on and off. When the switch is on, you will hear a dial tone and also the near end echo of your voice. With the switch off, you will hear nothing. If the circuitry was active, youd hear your voice.
They could modify your phone to work as you suggested, but I don't think it can be done remotely.
Longer jail terms? How about execution by firing squad?
I've supported him in the past, worked for his campaign and other GOP campaigns, but ask me if I wholly trust him with my freedoms.... The answer is, HELL NO! I trust no one man with my liberties and freedoms.
The problem is there is left-wing and right-wing, but there is north and south as well in the political spectrum. To the North is Libertarianism and to the South is its opposite, Authoritarianism. When someone from the hard right moves south they become facsist. When a leftist moves to the south, they are a communist. Each is equally appalling, and I'll have neither.
I can't believe the way these people are acting. I just can't believe it. I would prefer better immigration laws and border patrol. Everyone scoffed at Buchanan's "fence" but now look at what they want for themselves, something FAR worse than a fence on the border; these people will vote away their constitutional rights.
If Americans don't stand up and outright DENOUNCE this sort of Orwellian nonsense we will all end up, in the paraphrased words of some Brit rockers, pigs, in cages, on antibiotics. Won't that be "safe"? And Hell on earth?
And we'll deserve it if we let it happen, too.
...and tell them a police state, even for the illusion of safety, is not something anyone wants. Let me quote just one line from that article and then I'm done (emphasis mine): "Ashcroft urged quick passage of new police powers sought by the Bush administration, including the authority to detain aliens suspected of ties to terrorists indefinitely and without the right to appeal."
"Suspected", eh?
Here is the DEFENDING YOUR FREEDOM:Petition to the President and Senators of the United States
Get used to seeing this. Does 11 million illegal aliens in the United States sound like the federal government gives a damn about your security? The government is criminally negligent in deliberately giving up controlling American borders.
The 30 billion dollar CIA were caught playing with themselves and never saw this coming.
Airport security was caught completely flatfooted.
Do we want to give more power to a federal government so uncaring of our security and so completely incompetent?
"THE HITS JUST KEEP ON COMING."
Public Scrutiny BANNED? Like they dont realize that by shutting off the cameras, Millions of Americans will not see it?
This was predictable.
We Do NOT NEED to toss out the Constitution to do it.
This is very disturbing to say the least. I noticed that a lot of the "do whatever is necessary to kill the terrorist b@stard" crowd has mellowed a bit. I'm glad to see that they've finally calmed down enough to contemplate the ramifications of what they were advocating.
Not to mention providing an economic stimulus. </sarcasm>
Exactimundo! What a racket these clowns got going. It's a recipe for totalitarianism that has been used down through the ages:
(2) Government obscures that IT is the reason for the crisis;
(3) Government offers itself as the savior from the crisis.
And, in the name of overcoming the crisis ... coming together in unity ... the citizenry will trust their government to give them safety. Few will dare to ask questions. And those who do speak up will be demonized as unpatriotic and un-American. Between peer pressure and sheer propaganda, the sheeple will allow themselves to have their freedom restricted ... and government power to increase.
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