Hmm,

The history we didn't learn we are doomed to repeat? I didn't realize that Merlin said something similar...but was there a Merlin?

Of course, ancient history isn't "relevant" to our students today, especially if it's about dead white guys oppression of another ethnic group. Will they castigate the Muslims for trying to subjugate the Christians in Europe in the 8th century? Or for driving the Israelis out of Israel/Palestine in the 21st century?

Love the quote form Merlin...I like also what he had to say about Truth, and that "Whenever a man lies, he murders part of the world." Great movie, Excalibur.

As Merlin the Wizard said: "It is the curse of men that they forget."

Hey! You can’t expect 1269 year old men to remember everything!

Had Martel and his men lost this battle, things would be different today.

Yes, there'd be no United States, for one thing. In fact, the entire planet would be completely unrecognizable to us. Which really wouldn't matter, since none of us would ever have been born.

In other words, so what? I'm not sure what your point is.

Here's a bit of historical trivia regarding this pivotal battle, where Charles Martel turned the tide of the Muslim invasion of Europe, from Carnage and Culture by Victor David Hanson. "They [the Moslems] had looted the Church of St. Hilary in Poitiers in the days before the battle." Could it be that history is repeating and New York City was Hillary's church? Can we say George "the Hammer" Bush?

Had Martel and his men lost this battle, things would be different today.

Yeah, look at all the crap going on in Eastern Europe today.

www.nationalreview.com/150ct01/ pj101501.shtml

October 10. October 10. October 10. October 10.

Is that under the Julian calendar? Or is there some convention about maintaining the particular date of something from that calendar even though we use Gregorian today?

Sorry--mistyped it:
www.nationalreview.com/15oct01/pj101501.shtml

But who in our politically correct schools learns about Charles Martel and the Battle of Tours?

In Politically Correct American public schools, the answer is, "Nobody".

However, those of us with Spanish ancestors remember the Battle of Tours, the Reconquista and the Battle of Lepanto.

That link doesn't work either---simply go to nationalreview.com and scan down for historian David Pryce-Jones's piece on Muslims---same piece under the title "The Islamist Fantasy" was published Saturday in the New York Post.

Sorry, but Tours wasn't really that big a deal. And it by no means marked the end of Islamic expansion - though it did mark the end of that phase of Islamic expansion. The Saracens were over-extended already, and even had they won they wouldn't have gone much farther.

In my mind, the Turkish invasion of the Balkans, was far greater a risk, and the First Siege of Vienna in 1529, far more important.

And a better choice as the high-water mark of Islamic (though not Arab) conquest.

But who in our politically correct schools learns about Charles Martel and the Battle of Tours?

Actually, I went to a public high school in Minnesota. That is the about the only thing I remember from my history class. That was back in '92-'93, and Lord knows how much public schools went downhill during the Clinton regime.

Pray for John Paul II

Here's the link :)

Click here

I didn't learn it in school, but from my grandfather: Family tradition has it that an ur-ancestor left Spain when the Moors came and fought with Martel at Tours.

As a kid, I thrilled to the account of the Battle of Tours in Sir Edward Creasy's The Fifteen Decisive Battles of the World!

Tours may have been the Arabs high water mark in the West, but remember that their sea power was not broken until 1571, by Don John of Austria at the Battle of Lepanto, and on the Southeastern European landmass, the Turks were at the gates of Vienna in 1683 -- The Mohammedans remember, as they are now backward and helpless in the face of Western power, that just over 300 years ago they almost broke through into the heart of central Europe!

Must have been one hell of an ass whooping, kept them basically in line for 1200 years. Beat them so bad that they still get around on camels, and wear the same rags.

Thanks Fiddl---what did I do wrong?

"...but was there a Merlin?

There was ... and always will be ... a Merlin ... whenever he is needed.