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GUN-WEENIE COMES UNDER FIRE
Boortz.com ^ | 10-5-2001 | Boortz

Posted on 10/05/2001 7:42:16 AM PDT by Dick Bachert

Ever heard of Michael Bellesiles? He's a historian at Emory University in Atlanta. He's also the author of "Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture." His book received the Bancroft Prize, the most prestigious award in the writing of American history.

The gist of Bellesiles' book is that "America's gun culture is an invented tradition." He says guns were far less important to early American culture than is commonly believed. He backs this claim up with historical records.

Trouble is, as the Boston Globe and National Review point out, Bellesiles' sources are a little fishy. Some of the most important statements Bellesiles makes in his book are based on data that just don't exist.

What data, you ask? National Review's Melissa Seckora has a prime example. Bellesiles claims that he counted guns in probate records of the estates of people who died between 1849 and 1850, and between 1858 and 1859 in San Francisco. But everybody knows that those records don't exist anymore--because they were destroyed in the 1906 earthquake and fire that ravaged San Francisco.

Now there's been some movement in this case. The head of Emory University's history department has demanded that Bellesiles write a detailed defense of his book! James Melton said, "What is important is that he defend himself and the integrity of his scholarship immediately.

Depending on his response, the university will respond appropriately. If there is prima facie evidence of scholarly misconduct, the university has to conduct a thorough investigation. Whether it be a purely internal inquiry, or the university brings in distinguished scholars in the field, will depend on how Michael responds."

Bellesiles promises that he will publish his defense of his work in a future newsletter of the Organization of American Historians.

How about that, folks? I must say that I’m impressed. Emory University, a true leftist haven, has won back some of my respect for demanding accountability from an obviously anti-gun leftist historian.

I’m sure they’re thrilled.

(Original story sources)
http://www.nationalreview.com/daily/nr100401.shtml
http://www.nationalreview.com/15oct01/seckora101501.shtml


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
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Gee, how ironic if old Mike gets -- er -- SHOT DOWN! :-)))
1 posted on 10/05/2001 7:42:16 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (bachert@mindspring.com)
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To: Dick Bachert
Emory University had little choice. Demand that Mike Bellesiles prove up, or be accused of aiding and abetting a liar.
2 posted on 10/05/2001 7:52:59 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Dick Bachert
It must be a real bad case of scholarly misconduct (worse than we even thought) for the leftist university staff to turn on one of their own. Or maybe Bell. is a real bad fundraiser.
3 posted on 10/05/2001 7:55:11 AM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
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To: Dick Bachert
National Review article posted here.
4 posted on 10/05/2001 7:57:51 AM PDT by KillerWabbit
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To: Dick Bachert
Bump. 'scholarly misconduct' = liar.
5 posted on 10/05/2001 7:58:39 AM PDT by real saxophonist
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Are you kidding? The left doesn't care if they aid and abet liars. The Clintons are still doing it, the press is still helping, and Liberals don't care.
6 posted on 10/05/2001 8:01:06 AM PDT by tjg
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To: Cynthia Tucker
Hey Cynthia! Just making you aware...
7 posted on 10/05/2001 8:01:54 AM PDT by real saxophonist
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To: snopercod,joanie-f
Bump.
8 posted on 10/05/2001 8:03:14 AM PDT by First_Salute
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To: Dick Bachert
I must say that I’m impressed. Emory University, a true leftist haven, has won back some of my respect for demanding accountability from an obviously anti-gun leftist historian.

Let's wait until a response is provided before lauding Emory. There are several things that can happen:

1. The timetable can be extended to years so no information ever comes out.
2. Emory can state that this historian has satisfied them, but never release the data.
3. The notes and research will suddenly disappear and won't be found for years, either in the White House bedroom or a trunk of an impounded car.
4. Michael Bellesiles can be found inappropriate, but the value of his work is in the message and therefore must be used as such.

9 posted on 10/05/2001 8:03:49 AM PDT by where's_the_Outrage?
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To: where's_the_Outrage?
4. Michael Bellesiles can be found inappropriate, but the value of his work is in the message and therefore must be used as such.

Bingo. The value of the agenda supercedes the need for documentation or evidence.

Bottom line: It's okay that he made it all up, because he made it all up to advance the proper agenda.

10 posted on 10/05/2001 8:09:06 AM PDT by KillerWabbit
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To: where's_the_Outrage?
But if he doesn't adequately defend himself, even informally, before his peers, it pretty much means the end of his career. He will find it extraordinarily difficult to get published, transfer to a different college, if he has tenure, he'll find himself only teaching the giant survey courses that most academics loathe, etc.
11 posted on 10/05/2001 8:11:21 AM PDT by motexva
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To: KillerWabbit
I think you're on to something.
12 posted on 10/05/2001 8:24:41 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: where's_the_Outrage?
Let's wait until a response is provided before lauding Emory

I agree. Emory is just making noises because Bellsiles lies got reported in a major newspaper. They were happy enough to support him even though they already knew the book was based on lies. Look for a whitewash. The Emory administration/faculty hates the Bill of Rights and absolutely detests the Second Amendment.

13 posted on 10/05/2001 8:26:57 AM PDT by from occupied ga
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To: where's_the_Outrage?
As I mentioned on the other post, Bellesiles has served his purpose for the Gun(Mind)Control crowd, and he can be sacrificed.

The point is that the story behind his lying will never get the same amount of coverage that the original book got.

14 posted on 10/05/2001 8:32:03 AM PDT by eniapmot
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To: KillerWabbit
"The value of the agenda supercedes the need for documentation or evidence.

"Bottom line: It's okay that he made it all up, because he made it all up to advance the proper agenda. "

Oh, very very good! That's it in a nutshell! BUMP

15 posted on 10/05/2001 8:35:53 AM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: Dick Bachert
Yesterday's thread on the same issue, from a different article, with lots of good LINKS
16 posted on 10/05/2001 8:37:02 AM PDT by KC Burke
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To: eniapmot
You are correct. The TV series Law & Order picked up Bellesiles' gun lie in several story lines.
17 posted on 10/05/2001 8:48:41 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Every liberal I had occasion to debate knew the Bellesiles story ("...did you know that gun-ownership by Americans is a myth...")
18 posted on 10/05/2001 8:52:51 AM PDT by eniapmot
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
The TV series Law & Order picked up Bellesiles' gun lie in several story lines.

Which means potentially years of reruns in syndication -- with no disclaimers or corrections.

19 posted on 10/05/2001 8:58:32 AM PDT by KillerWabbit
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To: eniapmot
The point is that the story behind his lying will never get the same amount of coverage that the original book got.

True, but every time somebody cites Bellesiles, we can come back with "Citing Bellesiles on guns is like citing Velikovski on astronomy... and the only people who do that are cranks!"

20 posted on 10/05/2001 9:24:16 AM PDT by Grut
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