Posted on 10/14/2001 7:55:35 PM PDT by Dengar01
For the first few weeks after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, Willow Creek Community Church Senior Pastor Bill Hybels was increasingly bothered by reports of hate crimes and misinformation about Islam.
"I am so concerned by the gap between Muslims and Christians that is growing week by week by week," Hybels said, "and I thought Willow could do something about that."
That something was to have Hybels' church in South Barrington, one of the larger Christian churches in the country, invite a local Muslim leader, Fisal Hammouda, to talk last weekend about Islam to a total of 17,000 churchgoers spread over four services.
"There are some Americans and some Christians spreading rumors and half-truths that the Koran encourages violence," Hybels told his congregation Saturday. "Well, you take some stuff out of context and we've got major problems."
Hammouda, a U.S. citizen who emigrated from Egypt in 1969, is an engineer and an imam, or religious leader, in the Islamic Center in Naperville. He had visited Willow Creek in March as part of the church's world religions weekend, and he and Hybels had continued to talk in the months before the Sept. 11 attacks.
Because of that familiarity between the two men, their discussion was at times light-hearted--they even joked about converting each other--but also somber as it turned to politics and violence.
The 45-minute interview is a familiar format at Willow Creek, with Hybels talking with Hammouda onstage in a 4,500-person auditorium. Hybels asked Hammouda questions that he said were drawn from hundreds of e-mails he had received from fellow "Creekers." "As it started to look like it might be Osama bin Laden ... who directed the attack, what did you think?" Hybels said. Hammouda said that at first he thought "it couldn't be a Muslim," explaining that the holy book of Islam, the Koran, does not allow violence against innocent people. "The Koran says: `Who kills an innocent life, it's as if he killed all humanity.'" The imam also discussed the strong ties between Christianity and Islam. "We believe in Jesus, more than you do in fact," said Hammouda, drawing laughter when Hybels, smiling, ventured to disagree.
Muslims consider Jesus and other biblical figures to be Islamic prophets, Hammouda explained, though not as important as Muhammad, the faith's main prophet. "We call you `the people of book.' We have all the prophets from the Bible," he said. That fact alone surprised many in the audience. "I didn't know they believed in Jesus," church member Elizabeth Perez, 60, of Zion said after the service. "I thought it was interesting how much we have in common."
Laughter rolled through the audience again as Hammouda, discussing the true definition of a "jihad," or holy war, said it even could refer to a personal holy war to overcome, say, a desire to eat more candy.
But unease took hold when the conversation turned more serious and political, as when Hybels asked Hammouda, "Why do some Muslims hate the U.S. as much as they do? "Hammouda said many Muslims see U.S. decisions about Israel, Iraq and Yugoslavia as "inconsistencies in our foreign policy" that favor non-Muslims.
Some members of the audience seized on these points. Hammouda "still professes hate for Israel," said Marilyn Stoken, 69, who was visiting the church with her daughter, Leslie, 38, of Wheeling, who has been a member for two years.
After the service, Hybels said in an interview that the goal of the event wasn't to change longstanding views. "I don't know that many views needed to be changed," he said. "I think questions were answered." Judy Barrie, 30, of Mundelein said the interview "opened up doors to communicate and showed [Muslims are] people just like we are." That is the kind of impact Hybels had hoped for. "It gave us a greater sense of assurance that maybe, despite all of our differences, we can get along," he said.
Dengar01 Responds
I posted the Original Event in Thread 1 at: Muslim blames US at Chicago's Largest Church (BARF).
Now about a week later the Chicago Tribune decides to post what they found out at the event at the four different services. Let me remind you that I went to the first service at Saturday at 5:00PM as a visitor, and it seems that the interview changed although there is proof of this man's hatred toward the US and Israel even in the Tribunes article. I apologize because I contacted the Tribune Saturday night. Obviously they went on their own to gather the filth this man was spewing.
What the Tribune does not write about is that at the Saturday night 5:00PM service alone over 200 people walked out. They also do not let you know that Bill Hybels is a radical left-winger who was Bill Clinton's spiritual advisor. Your tax dollars went to flying Hybel's to Washington to preach to Clinton.
After posting my original article I tried many times to get ahold of Bill Hybels, lets just say I was unsuccessful. I once again will post the info for Willow Creek and the writer of this article who is Sean D. Hamill. The site for the Chicago Tribune is Chicago Tribune.
I feel responsible for this matter because I contacted the Chicago Tribune about the incident to have it backfire in my face.
I learned some great information from a fellow FReeper who will go unnamed who helped me with showing others how corrupt Willow Creek is and that it is basically a Cult.
Final note: I never was a member, I only attended this church a few times and after the event on October 6th I have not and will not attend ever again. I tried contacting Bill Hybel's on numerous occasions he has not responded. If I have any more information on the Willow Creek incident just go to my website at Dengar01's Conservative Homepage
You can FReep the Chicago Tribune at the above site.
You can FReep Willow Creek at:
Willow Creek Community Church
67 E. Algonquin Road
South Barrington, IL 60010
(847) 765-5000
Fax: (847) 765-9222 General e-mail: info@willowcreek.org
I think here he is more "excommunicating" any "self-declared" muslims that did this, as opposed to saying it was a person of non-muslim background.
"Why do some Muslims hate the U.S. as much as they do? "Hammouda said many Muslims see U.S. decisions about Israel, Iraq and Yugoslavia as "inconsistencies in our foreign policy" that favor non-Muslims.
If this is as close as he got to laying "blame" on the US then this really has been blown out of proportion. Plenty of people here on FR have problems with US policies, just like plenty of muslims do -- it was a direct answer to the "why do some people not like us" question. as opposed to the "why are the attacks justified" question. VERY big difference. If you don't know the difference, then you don't know the meaning of dissent and disagreement.
I'm also wondering what he said the was "hate" for israel. probably said something about the palestineans being "oppressed" or that more palestineans than israelis have died in the al-aqsa intifada.
They also do not let you know that Bill Hybels is a radical left-winger who was Bill Clinton's spiritual advisor. Your tax dollars went to flying Hybel's to Washington to preach to Clinton.
I learned some great information from a fellow FReeper who will go unnamed who helped me with showing others how corrupt Willow Creek is and that it is basically a Cult.
This is ridiculous and has totally shot your credibility. I live in DC but know quite a few people that attend Willow Creek. They are definitely not leftist and they are a standard, evangelical Christian church, not a cult.
Your religious bias is as strong as the Taliban's, and just as ignorant of the facts.
Before you flame me as anti-evangelical Christians, let me just say that I am one, that my dad was an evangelical methodist pastor (even though he graduated from one of the most liberal Methodist theology schools - Perkins at Southern Methodist University in Dallas).
Point is, as a veterinarian, I know sh*t when I smell it and I smelled it that day w/Hybel and Clinton. This version of it (Hybel having an Islamic cleric share how similar Islam is to Christianity) is still sh*t. (And yes, my dad taught me better language than that, but sometimes there's nothin' better than calling it as ya see it.)
Endeavor
Odd. Why would this church invite the only person in America, who was so ignorant of the ways of Islam that he did not immediately know that Muslims had done it, to speak as an expert on Islam?
Welcome. I see you are a FReeper as of today.
Would you please explain the difference between a standard, evangelical Christian church and a cult -- as those terms are understood in DC?
Actually, the person you addressed with this remark was correct about Bill Hybels and Bill Clinton. Hybels basically provided Bill Clinton with a forum to bite his lip and offer his faux "I'm really, really sorry" routine. That is absolutely true. There's a reason Clinton used Hybels: Hybels could be used. (I watched it, and it made me sick. I lost all respect for Bill Hybels that day.)
HOw is it that the US favoured non muslims. Are not Kuwaitis Muslim? Being inconsistant is not a valid reason to hate someone. Besides, its our right ot be inconsistant! Who are muslims to determine what we should be doing with our resources?
Perhaps the western world should hate muslims for their inconsistancies ie they love their Afghan 'brothers' but will not stop them being murdered or starving to death. Hows that for inconsistant.
Ya and so where the mujahhedin. they too were fighting for independence from an invader, using the tactics of terror. I wonder what kind of press the people who tarred and feathered loyalists got during the American Revolution, both in the colonies and in the home country.
He then stated that, "The US is responsible for terrorism"
of course here i lack the context. but -- the contras used terrorist tactics, and the US refuses to hand over to cuba a man suspected, of, among other things, bombing a cuban airliner, killing 73 civilians. Two small examples of support for terrorism. Again, context is key -- was he saying the US had been responsible for other acts of terror, or that the US was solely to blame for 9/11?
Islam is a dangerous religion. We do not need to understand it. We need to expose it for what it is.
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