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'I envy those boys who died. I would love to be in their shoes, so I pray to Allah for courage'
The Independent (U.K.) ^ | 10/30/2001 | Paul Peachey, Steve Boggan and Ian Burrell

Posted on 10/30/2001 11:10:49 AM PST by Pokey78

The Secretary of State for Defence, Geoff Hoon, threatened British Muslims with legal action yesterday if they returned alive from fighting alongside the Taliban regime against the American-led coalition in Afghanistan.

In response to reports of the deaths of four Britons said to have joined Taliban ranks, Mr Hoon said he hoped any disaffected Muslims would think "very carefully about the consequences, both to them and their families, in terms of the grief they may suffer", before deciding to go to Afghanistan. He did not specify what legal action could follow.

The Government's warnings followed claims from extreme Islamic groups that hundreds of British Muslims were prepared to travel abroad to fight American forces.

But in Luton yesterday, where three of the four dead men lived, there appeared to be little sign of mass recruitment to the Taliban cause, and senior figures in the Asian community were openly scornful of attempts by extremists to recruit young Muslims.

Luton has been a bell-wether of Muslim opinion with some extremist groups claiming that its young men were willing to fight and die in a jihad, or holy war, against the West. Its close proximity to the capital and its 30,000-strong Muslim population has meant that Islamic leaders based in London have been able to travel into the town to try to recruit more members.

Even as the Taliban were saying that they did not require outside help, one group, al-Muhajiroun, set up a stall in the town centre yesterday and claimed that every Muslim was obliged to fight to defend their fellow Muslims.

Chanting praises of Allah beneath placards that read "Islam will dominate the world", the group's members said they envied four Britons who died fighting for the Taliban. These young men are said by some to be just the tip of a mass of volunteers from the UK rushing to take up arms against the Allies.

The group, which is controlled by a hardcore of only six committed activists, had claimed that hundreds of young British Muslims were heading to Afghanistan, in an equivalent of the International Brigade of the Spanish Civil War.

Muslim leaders, who have monitored growing unease among British Muslims as the attacks on Afghanistan have continued, were not surprised by the news of the deaths.

Inayat Bunglawala, a spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, said the desire of some young British Muslims to fight against the Allied forces was not necessarily a sign of their support for the wider views and policies of the Taliban.

He said: "They are going to fight out of a sense of iniquity of a situation where the most powerful state in the world is bombing a nation like Afghanistan. We are doing our best to discourage them. We are encouraging them to write to their MPs and their local newspapers [instead]. We tell them many non-Muslims are also opposed to the bombing."

But growing evidence was emerging yesterday of the presence near the Afghan borders of significant numbers of British Muslims seeking to join Taliban forces.

One British Muslim in Pakistan said he had helped train and smuggle more than 200 Britons into Afghanistan to fight against the West. Abdul Salam, 25, who grew up in and around Brick Lane in east London, said: "Hundreds of them come over from Britain to Pakistan and Afghanistan. What we do is we supply them with weapons, clothing, we feed them, we shelter them, we take them over to the border and we train them up."

One of those volunteers, a man who would give his name only as Abdullah, aged 21, from Dagenham, Essex, said: "I'm British, British-born, British-bred. I'm willing to kill British soldiers simply because of the fact they are engaged in a war that is against my brethren."

The leader of the Luton branch of Al-Muhajiroun, who wanted to be known as Shahed, said: "We are not recruiting anyone specifically for violence but we do recruit for jihad. There are three ways of waging jihad: physical, verbal and financial. It was the duty of every Muslim to choose one of these three. Which one they choose is up to them."

At an outdoor press conference in the Biscot district, which is 68 per cent Asian, Shahed described Tony Blair and President George Bush as "terrorists" who were killing innocent people in Afghanistan. But when asked by The Independent if any of them were prepared to fight, they expressed extreme reluctance.

Shahed, 28, said: "I would dearly love to but I have a wife to take care of." One of his comrades, Shajjadur Rahman, 23, a web designer, said: "I envy those boys who died. I would love to be in their shoes. I just don't have the bottle so I pray to Allah to give me courage."

The group's opponents say its activism in Luton – where it organises leaflet drops, poster campaigns and public meetings – is encouraged by a senior figure in the national organisation who started work at a computer company in the town three or four years ago. The group's opponents said that at best it had about 20 followers and was most popular with student activists. At least one of the dead men was a recent graduate.

Afzal Munir, 23, graduated last year from Luton University and got a job with a computer firm, friends said. He is believed to have been married and lived in a semi-detached home near the M1 with his father, mother, three sisters and 11-year-old twin brothers. He reportedly attended the group's meetings at the university. Neighbours said he had been brainwashed by extremists.

He lived close to another man who died in Afghanistan, Aftab Manzoor, 25, who is believed to have divided his time between Luton and Pakistan, where his stepmother and his own wife and young daughter lived. He made a mobile phone call to his father a few weeks ago revealing his plans.

At the family home yesterday, a small group of young men were warning off the media. One of them said they would "get the Taliban down here". A third man, Mohammad Umar, said to be the leader of the group and also from Luton, was also said to have died when the house in Kabul where they were meeting was bombed by the United States.

Luton was linked with fundamentalism two years ago when Ghulem Hussein, 28, from the town, was among eight Britons convicted in Yemen of a terrorist bomb plot.

Despite the tension on the streets yesterday, senior community figures were scornful of the influence of Al-Muhajiroun and Luton police said the group was one they were "not that worried about".

"They don't represent Islam. They don't represent Muslims. They are deliberately making inflammatory statements which just lead to more anti-Muslim feeling," said a spokesman at an Islamic educational charity's Call to Islam bookshop. "They have this reputation of 'academic jihad'. The hollower the drum, the louder the noise they make. If a person was interested in going to fight, they would just go and do it."


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1 posted on 10/30/2001 11:10:49 AM PST by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78
I envy those boys who died. I would love to be in their shoes.

We’ll see what we can do for you.

2 posted on 10/30/2001 11:13:18 AM PST by dead
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To: Pokey78
One British Muslim in Pakistan said he had helped train and smuggle more than 200 Britons into Afghanistan to fight against the West. Abdul Salam, 25, who grew up in and around Brick Lane in east London, said: "Hundreds of them come over from Britain to Pakistan and Afghanistan. What we do is we supply them with weapons, clothing, we feed them, we shelter them, we take them over to the border and we train them up."

One of those volunteers, a man who would give his name only as Abdullah, aged 21, from Dagenham, Essex, said: "I'm British, British-born, British-bred. I'm willing to kill British soldiers simply because of the fact they are engaged in a war that is against my brethren."

Scary
3 posted on 10/30/2001 11:15:25 AM PST by milestogo
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To: dead
They will not be disappointed!
4 posted on 10/30/2001 11:15:53 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: Pokey78
"I would love to be in their shoes, so I pray"

I would love you to be in pigskin shoes, I pray.

5 posted on 10/30/2001 11:16:40 AM PST by APBaer
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To: milestogo
I'm sure the Royal Marines will give him the utmost good treatement should they find him alive. This is all great, actually, because this is the final clarion wake up call that will sway public opinion that these savage remain savage as long as they remain Musli no matter how long the 5th columnists have lived in your country.
6 posted on 10/30/2001 3:21:35 PM PST by Stavka2
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To: Pokey78
The Secretary of State for Defence, Geoff Hoon, threatened British Muslims with legal action yesterday if they returned alive from fighting alongside the Taliban regime against the American-led coalition in Afghanistan.

This is all the evidence I need to be convinced that the American-led coalition is going to lose this so-called "war." You don't threaten legal action against your enemy -- you eliminate him as quickly and effectively as possible.

7 posted on 10/30/2001 3:21:41 PM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: Pokey78
Come to my house... I'll see what I can do to help you in your journey to meet Allah.
8 posted on 10/30/2001 3:26:36 PM PST by OWK
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To: dead
I know this is about the British muslims but my feelings are the same about the American ones. What the f*** are they in our countries for if the want to support terrorists? What, the great conditions they have here aren't good enough? What do these idiots want? That we should all live in stone age conditions like what the Taliban has given Afghanistan? Fools. Idiots

I say let them go, in fact encourage them. But they never get to come back. Not to face treason charges, not their bodies for their loved ones. Never

9 posted on 10/30/2001 3:28:33 PM PST by JSteff
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To: milestogo
One of those volunteers, a man who would give his name only as Abdullah, aged 21, from Dagenham, Essex, said: "I'm British, British-born, British-bred. I'm willing to kill British soldiers simply because of the fact they are engaged in a war that is against my brethren."

And with that statement he should be draged out into the street and shot...

Again, these Sub-Humans must be treated like the savage animals they really are. We must exterminate these bugs where we find them, killing them with as little remorse as his "brethren" showed us on 9-11.

We should not rest until Islam is only practiced in hell!

10 posted on 10/30/2001 3:29:33 PM PST by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: Pokey78
Maybe the British need to start an airplane ticket fund.
11 posted on 10/30/2001 3:33:40 PM PST by Vince Ferrer
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To: MadIvan; jjbrouwer
"I'm British, British-born, British-bred. I'm willing to kill British soldiers simply because of the fact they are engaged in a war that is against my brethren."

Feed him a baked ham please before you Ace him
....your choice in method of execution! thanks!

12 posted on 10/30/2001 3:34:14 PM PST by SunnyUsa
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To: dead
"We'll see what we can do for you."

BTTT!

13 posted on 10/30/2001 3:35:13 PM PST by headsonpikes
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour
We should not rest until Islam is only practiced in hell!

Agreed. Islam is a false and evil religion which originated in hell at the behest of Satan himself.

14 posted on 10/30/2001 3:36:18 PM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: Pokey78
I think that it is important that those that wish to fight for the Taliban are allowed to go in this fall. We should assist them- the more the merrier.

Just think of the added logistics of clothing and feeding those newbies.

15 posted on 10/30/2001 3:36:52 PM PST by fini
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To: Pokey78
Maybe we should keep the war in Afghanistan going for a long time, to give every such volunteer a chance to be "martyred" and sent straight to the hell they so richly deserve. Clean up the gene pool.
16 posted on 10/30/2001 3:38:51 PM PST by EaglesUpForever
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To: Pokey78
Allah is satan - he doesn't grant courage - just blind bloodthirsty self-destructive insanity.
17 posted on 10/30/2001 3:39:07 PM PST by ValerieUSA
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To: JSteff
What, the great conditions they have here aren't good enough? What do these idiots want?

They like the Western economic conditions, and refuse to accept that it is Western culture that produces those economic conditions. They refuse to acknowledge that Islam is incompatible with a functional modern civilization

18 posted on 10/30/2001 3:39:16 PM PST by SauronOfMordor
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To: JSteff
What, the great conditions they have here aren't good enough? What do these idiots want?

They like the Western economic conditions, and refuse to accept that it is Western culture that produces those economic conditions. They refuse to acknowledge that Islam is incompatible with a functional modern civilization

19 posted on 10/30/2001 3:39:17 PM PST by SauronOfMordor
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To: Pokey78
This story can NOT be true...

That clymer is holding a sign reading:"Islam will domininate the world".

I thought this was NOT a war against Islam.

I thought this was ONLY a war against a few radical Moslem Terrorists.

I thought Islam was a religion of of Peace and Tolerance.

WHAT am I to believe? Or should I care?

I believe Islam has provided sufficient PROOF, that Islam is the enemy......
If not -- then why hasn't some Muslim "cleric" issued a death sentence against the terrorists for bringing shame upon Islam?

I must conclude that Islam condones the terrorists - if they will not condemn them in a MEANINGFUL way - and allow them to be punished.
Semper Fi

20 posted on 10/30/2001 3:48:07 PM PST by river rat
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