Thanks for posting this proud2bRC, I wanted too but its going to be a busy day.
patent
Posted on 11/02/2001 5:42:58 AM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
Mary and the Moslems
11/1/01
Moslemism is the only great post-Christian religion of the world. Because it had its origin in the seventh century under Mohammed, it was possible to unite, within it, some elements of Christianity and of Judaism, along with particular customs of Arabia. Moslemism takes the doctrine of the unity of God, His Majesty and His creative power, and uses it, in part, as a basis for the repudiation of Christ, the Son of God.
(The following was written in 1952 and reprinted in the October 2001 Mindszenty Report.)
The Power of Islam
by Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
Misunderstanding the notion of the Trinity, Mohammed made Christ a prophet, announcing Him just as to Christians Isaiah and John the Baptist are prophets announcing Christ.
The Christian European West barely escaped destruction at the hands of the Moslems. At one point they were stopped near Tours and at another point, later on in time, outside the gates of Vienna. The Church throughout northern Africa ws practically destroyed by Moslem power, and at the present hour, the Moslems are beginning to rise again. If Moslemism is a heresy, as Hilaire Belloc believes it to be, it is the only heresy that has never declined. Others have had a moment of vigor, then gone into doctrinal decay at the death of the leader, and finally evaporated in a vague social movement. Moslemism, on the contrary, has only had its first phase. There was never a time in which it declined, either in numbers, or in the devotion of its followers.
The missionary effort of the Church toward this group has been at least on the surface, a failure, for the Moslems are so far almost unconvertible. The reason is that for a follower of Mohammed to become a Christian is much like a Christian becoming a Jew. The Moslems believe that they have the final and definitive revelation of God to the world and that Christ was only a prophet announcing Mohammed, the last of Gods real prophets.
At the present time, the hatred of the Moslem countries against the West is becoming a hatred against Christianity itself. Although the statesmen have not yet taken it into account, there is still grave danger that the temporal power of Islam may return and, with it, the menace that it may shake off a West which has ceased to be Christian, and affirm itself as a great anti-Christian world power. Moslem writers say, When the locust swarms darken countries, they bear on their wings these Arabic words: We are Gods host, each of us has ninety-nine eggs, and if we had a hundred, we should lay waste the world, with all that is in it.
The problem is, how shall we prevent the hatching of the hundredth egg? It is our firm belief that the fears some entertain concerning the Moslems are not to be realized, but that Moslemism, instead, will eventually be converted to Christianity - and in a way that even some of our missionaries never suspect. It is our belief that this will happen not through the direct teachings of Christianity, but through a summoning of the Moslems to a veneration of the Mother of God. This is the line of argument:
Mary, Mother of God
The Koran, which is the Bible of the Moslems, has many passages concerning the Blessed Virgin. First of all, the Koran believes in her Immaculate Conception, and also, in her Virgin Birth. The third chapter of the Koran places the history of Marys family in a genealogy which goes back through Abraham, Noah, and Adam. When one compares the Korans description of the birth of Mary with the aprocryphal Gospel of the birth of Mary, one is tempted to believe tht Mohammed very much depended upon the latter. Both books describe the old age and the definite sterility of the mother of Mary. When, however, she conceives, the mother of Mary is made to say in the Koran: O Lord, I vow and I consecrate to you what is already within me. Accept it from me.
When Mary is born, the mother says: And I consecrate her with all of her posterity under thy protection, O Lord, against Satan! The Koran passes over Joseph in the life of Mary, but the Moslem tradition knows his name and has some familiarity with him. In this tradition, Joseph is made to speak to Mary, who is a virgin. As he inquired how she conceived Jesus without a father, Mary answered: Do you not know that God, when He created the wheat had no need of seed, and that God by His power made the trees grow without the help of rain? All that God had to do was to say, So be it, and it was done. The Koran has also verses on the Annunciation, Visitation, and Nativity. Angels are pictured as accompanying the Blessed Mother and saying: Oh Mary, God has chosen you and purified you, and elected you above all the women of the earth.
In the nineteenth chapter of the Koran there are 41 verses on Jesus and Mary. There is such a strong defense of the virginity of Mary here that the Koran, in the fourth book, attributed the condemnation of the Jews to their monstrous calumny against the Virgin Mary.
The Significance of Fatima
Mary, then, is for the Moslems the true Sayyida, or Lady. The only possible serious rival to her in their creed would be Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed himself. But after the death of Fatima, Mohammed wrote: Thou shalt be the most blessed of all the women in Paradise, after Mary. In a variant of the text, Fatima is made to say, I surpass all the women, except Mary.
This brings us to our second point: namely, why the Blessed Mother, in the 20th century, should have revealed herself in the significant little village of Fatima, so that to all future generations she would be known as Our Lady of Fatima. Since nothing ever happens out of Heaven except with a finesse of all details, I believe that the Blessed Virgin chose to be known as Our Lady of Fatima as a pledge and a sign of hope to the Moslem people, and as an assurance that they, who show her so much respect, will one day accept her divine Son too. Evidence to suport these views is found in the historical fact that the Moslems occupied Portugal for centuries. At the time when they were finally driven out, the last Moslem chief had a beautiful daughter by the name of Fatima. A Catholic boy fell in love with her, and for him she not only stayed behind when the Moslems left, but even embraced the Faith. The young husband was so much in love with her that he changed the name of the town where he live to Fatima. Thus, the very place where our Lady apeared in 1917 bears a historical connection to Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed.
The final evidence of the relationship of Fatima to the Moslems is the enthusiastic reception which the Moslems in Africa and India and elsewhere gave to the Pilgrim statue of Our Lady of Fatima, as mentioned earlier. Moslems attended the church services in honor of our Lady, they allowed religious processions and even prayers before their mosques; and in Mozambique the Moslems who were unconverted, began to be Christian as soon as the statue of Our Lady of Fatima was erected.
A Missionary Strategy
Missionaries in the future will, more and more, see that their apostolate among the Moslems will be successful in the measure that they preach Our Lady of Fatima. Mary is the advent of Christ, bringing Christ to the people before Christ Himself is born. In an apologetic endeavor, it is always best to start with that which people already accept. Because the Moslems have a devotion to Mary, our missionaries should be satisfied merely to expand and to develop that devotion, with the full realization that Our Blessed Lady will carry the Moslems the rest of the way to her divine Son. She is forever a traitor, in the sense that she will not accept any devotion for herself, but will always bring anyone who is devoted to her to her divine Son. As those who lose devotion to her lose belief in the divinity of Christ, so those who intensify devotion to her gradually acquire that belief.
Many of our great missionaries in Africa have already broken down the bitter hatred and prejudices of the Moslems against the Christians through their acts of charity, their schools and hospitals. It now remains to use another approach, namely, that of taking the 41st chapter of the Koran and showing them that it was taken out of the Gospel of Luke, that Mary could not be, even in their own eyes, the most blessed of all the women of Heaven if she had not also borne the Savior of the world. If Judith and Esther of the Old Testament were pre-figures of Mary, then it may very well be that Fatima herself was a post-figure of Mary! The Moslems should be prepared to acknowledge that, if Fatima must give way in honor to the Blessed Mother, it is because she is different from all the other mothers of the world and that without Christ she would be nothing.
(This article courtesy of The Mindzenty Report, published by the Cardinal Mindzenty Foundation.)
America sorely needs a prelate of his spirituality and stature today.
Thanks for posting this proud2bRC, I wanted too but its going to be a busy day.
patent
Fatima was also the name of Mohammed's daughter. (As well as a brand of fags.)
But after the death of Fatima, Mohammed wrote: Thou shalt be the most blessed of all the women in Paradise, after Mary.
In a variant of the text, Fatima is made to say, I surpass all the women, except Mary."
And what would Mohammed have to say about the treatment of his daughter in the current scheme of things in the Moslem world....
Although the statesmen have not yet taken it into account, there is still grave danger that the temporal power of Islam may return and, with it, the menace that it may shake off a West which has ceased to be Christian, and affirm itself as a great anti-Christian world power.
Archbishop Sheen was a very wise man.
Thank you for posting this, and for the bump. I didn't know about the Muslim significance of Fatima.
As long as a heresy allows the heretic to better contemplate God from his unique vantage point, the heresy will persist. We do notice conversion of Muslims, not to Christianity, but to secularism. This secularization is seen, not incorrectly, by some Muslim thinkers as westernization, and we have this war on the Western civilization as a result. Why secularism brings a Muslim closer to God? Because it reminds him of the loving and forgiving nature of God, that smiles at our petty philistinism. This aspect of God is nearly completely hidden from view in Islam.
Ultimately, everything good comes from God. Even our cooperation with God's grace is a grace. That is constant Church teaching. But in a more proximate sense, and to use everyday language, we say that "Mary always leads us to Christ."
If you feel more comfortable with "The Holy Spirit, operating through Mary, leads us to Christ," that's perfectly OK. In fact, it is Catholic teaching.
Please add me to the list, thanks.
"Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has taken public exception to a statement by Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, who caused an uproar in Italy by saying that Western culture is superior to Islam. 'One cannot speak of the superiority of one culture over another, because history has shown that a society can change from one age to another,' the cardinal remarked, speaking to the Italian daily La Repubblica.
I hope that the internet will open Islamic society to Christian teaching, even classical philosophy. I know someone who corresponds with Muslims in north Africa over the internet. He told me that they frequently say things like, "We don't have to believe these things?" The idea of freely accepting or rejecting specific religious doctrines is a strange idea to them.
Another obstacle to Muslim conversions is psychological. Because the Koran contains contradictory passages, and because the Koran is treated as the literal word of God, Koranic teachings must be accepted on blind faith, and in contradiction to natural reason. So Muslims must also overcome a lifetime practice of sublimating contradictions.
But, the position of a Christian missionary in an Islamic country is very perilous -- almost as dangerous as it was to be a Jesuit in Elizabethan England. Unless the radical governments, such as Saudi Arabia's, are compelled to renounce Sharia, the prospect of conversion through preaching and disputation seems very remote.
There will never be any widespread conversion from Islam to Christianity for as long as the government can impose a death sentence for "apostasy." And, in the case of Saudi Arabia, that self-same government has the unquestioning support of the U.S. There is something brutally consistent that the U.S., where it is illegal to pray on public property, supports a regime that imposes a death penalty for conversion to Christianity.
And bin Laden calls us "Crusaders." It is to laugh.
Funny, I had a conversation on FR just yesterday with a Lutheran minister, and he pointed out that the flaw in Calvinism is its reliance on humanly limited reason in building the doctrine of double predestination.
I agree on your main point. That is why I think that we won't see conversions to Christianity in any great numbers, but we do see acceptance of Western practices that are a consequence of Christianity: free thinking, tolerance of diversity, bourgeois work ethic, tolerance of small vice.
Vivat Jesus!
But, the position of a Christian missionary in an Islamic country is very perilous -- almost as dangerous as it was to be a Jesuit in Elizabethan England. Unless the radical governments, such as Saudi Arabia's, are compelled to renounce Sharia, the prospect of conversion through preaching and disputation seems very remote.The position of a Christian missionary has almost always been very perilous. It isn’t just Elizabethan England or Islamic countries. Many other lands that are now Christian fought the missionaries tooth and nail, whether shrinking their heads or merely cutting them off.
There is something brutally consistent that the U.S., where it is illegal to pray on public property, supports a regime that imposes a death penalty for conversion to Christianity.Yes, and it doesn’t bode well for the alleged superiority of Western Civ.
patent +AMDG
“Today we no longer understand ecumenism in the sense of a return, by which the others would ‘be converted’ and return to being ‘catholics.’ This was expressly abandoned by Vatican II.” - Cardinal Walter Kasper, Head of Pontifical Council for Christian UnityI would love to see the good Cardinal (or you, but I doubt you agree with him) prove that statement. I don’t recall any such thing in V2, though I have quite clearly seen it in the so-called “spirit of V2.”
patent +AMDG
I loved the 'angles' who erased his blackboard for him.
At present, Christian missionary work seems impossible in countries such as Saudi Arabia. Yet with God nothing is impossible: perhaps He will open those countries to missionaries some day.
In the meantime, there are millions of Muslims living in Europe and North America. Why not send missionaries to them?
The high point of the ecumenical movement thus far has been the Joint Declaration on Justification signed by the Catholic Church and one of the largest Lutheran bodies.
The ultimate goal of the ecumenical movement is the re-unification of Christendom or the re-unification of the Catholic Church, the Church which Christ founded, the "pillar and foundation of truth," and the church which we should go to to settle disputes, as Christ instructed us.
he pointed out that the flaw in Calvinism is its reliance on humanly limited reason in building the doctrine of double predestination.
I would think the opposite would be the case. I think the unreasonableness of the doctrine explains its unpopularity. Unaided reason tells us that God is Good. Therefore, it would be impossible for Him to will damnation for some people from all eternity, particularly without regard to their actions and decisions for or against God.
The Lutheran - Catholic accord on justification was a complete disaster. In the end it accomplished nothing. How can a Lutheran be justified without professing the Catholic faith?
I don't see any other context in which the statement can be taken. It is completely straightforward. Your reference to the context is a weak attempt to dodge the issue.Then why don’t you prove that this is what V2 said? It didn’t say that, and you know it. The Cardinal’s opinion is no more then that, the Cardinal’s opinion. You can take it as Gospel all you like, it isn’t.
patent +AMDG
How can a finite mind possibly fathom the thought processes of an Infinite Intellect?
At the present time, the hatred of the Moslem countries against the West is becoming a hatred against Christianity itself.
Hmmmm...fifty years later and we still have not realized the peril.
:
Yes, but the Calvinist unaided reason tells us that God is omnipotent and omniscient, therefore if X is eternally damned, then God made him. Charles Henrickson's point (really, the Lutheran Synod's position as I understood it) was that these two views that humans have of God,-- God of love and God of power, are not reconcilable under pure reason.
This may not be a proper thread to discuss this at length.
Pastor, why do you think the Muslims persist in their faith?
The question is, do we support the Vatican now or harken back to past teachings of the church?Ahhh, the words that nearly all schismatics utter sooner or later. But we must return to the true faith! I hope that you are not one of these who would leave the Church and the Pope to follow your private interpretation of the “past teachings of the Church.” I do not know you or where you are at, so please understand I make no judgments about you, but those words have such strong historical context to them.
As doctrine has developed through the last (nearly) 2000 years of Christianity various schismatics have reacted to various developments by demanding a return to the past teachings as they understood them. Just to cite a couple of the major examples that everyone is familiar with, the Orthodox and the filoque, and the Protestants nearly always claim they are a return to the ancient Church that was corrupted by the Catholic hierarchy. There are an infinite number of lesser examples, the Jansenists, etc. We could go on and on. History has clearly demonstrated that the only way to stay on the side of truth is to cling to the Holy See. Heresy after heresy after heresy arises, and no land has stayed safe from them, except those who remain aligned with the Pope.
I do not cling to Cardinal Kasper and what he states. I do cling to what the Pope teaches, and what the Church formally states. From the catechism:
816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it.... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him." 267Dominus VobiscumThe Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God." 268
patent +AMDG
Messages from Heaven - the Apparitions of the Virgin Mary - Zeitun, Egypt
" Official investigations have been carried out with the result that it has been considered an undeniable fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary has been appearing on Zeitun Church in a clear and bright luminous body seen by all present in front of the church, whether Christian or Moslem"
While all in America were watching the the Chicago riots at the Democratic Convention, or viewing live war zone broadcasts from Vietnam or were being mesmerized by the Watergate hearings on television, the Mother of God was appearing for tens of thousands to see in the land of the pyramids at a Coptic church constructed to commemorate the area in Egypt where she had come with Joseph and Jesus when they all fled from Herod. Starting in April, 1968, her apparitions of light changed the lives of thousands. Her appearances at Zeitun were astounding. She was seen by more than a million people. The apparitions were broadcast by Egyptian TV, photographed by hundreds of professional photographers and personally witnessed by Egyptian President Abdul Nasser, an avowed Marxist. The apparitions lasted for three years with numerous unaccountable healings recorded by various medical professionals. The local police, who initially thought the apparitions were an elaborate hoax, searched a 15-mile radius surrounding the site to uncover any type of device that could be used to project such images. They were completely unsuccessful.
Moslems who saw the apparitions chanted from the Koran, "Mary, God has chosen thee. And purified thee; He has chosen thee. Above all women." She was seen accompanied by doves of light in apparitions that lasted from a few minutes to as long as nine hours. Kyrillos VI, the Orthodox patriarch, formed a commission to investigate the apparitions. A number of the commissioners observed plumes of fragrant purple smoke rising from the church at the time of the apparitions and the figure of a woman surrounded by a very bright globe of light accompanied by doves of light. A digitally-enhanced, negative image of one television frame is shown at the top of this page to enable you a see an outline of what was seen by hundreds of thousands in Egypt.
While the appearances at Zietum were silent, the silence spoke volumes to those who came to see and strengthen their faith. The local Coptic Patriarch, Kyrillos VI, publicly announced a year after the apparitions started that he had no doubt that the Mother of God was appearing above the roof of St. Mary's Coptic Church.
For those who, like Thomas, needed to see for themselves, Mary offered an unequivocal televised demonstration at Zeitun. Yet, because of an unresponsive media and an indifferent world, very few outside of Egypt learned of her astonishing appearances there until well after they had ended.
More recently, the appearance of a woman clothed in light has been observed above the roof of the Church of St. Damian in Shoubra, Egypt, a suburb of Cairo. Starting in 1983 and seen with increasing frequency in the mid-1980's, the woman was seen by thousands walking above the church bathed in light in apparitions lasting up to five hours. Shenouda III, the head of the Coptic Church at the time, established a commission to investigate the beautiful lady of light. In 1987, the commission concluded:
"Let us thank the Lord for this blessing on the people of Egypt and for the repetition of this phenomenon. We should also like to thank the police and the Department of the Interior for their untiring efforts at maintaining safety and good order among the thousands of people who have spent day and night at prayer. We ask all the people to remain calm. Thus they may worthily receive the blessing of the Virgin, of St. Damian and of all the saints. May God save our country. We pray that he may guide Egypt and all her children to every success. May this phenomenon be a pledge of well-being for them and for all nations."
As in Zeitun, the silent witness of the Mother of God renewed the faith of tens of thousands and brought both Moslem and Christian to a place of peace where all could pray to the God who loved them enough to remind them of his love by sending His Mother.
Interesting. Has anyone pinned down or verified the latest story about Sr. Lucia? Is is true that she has commented on the current terrorism, relating it to the prophetic message?I can’t say I’ve pinned it down, but the most reliable indications indicate that she asked people to pray the rosary for peace, but did not comment otherwise. The letter that was sent out conforms to that. This is just MHO, not authoritative or anything.
I'm pinging FE since I think he knows more about this then I do.
patent +AMDG
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