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It's time to know Muslims better
New Zealand Herald ^ | 11/10/2001 | JOHN ROUGHAN

Posted on 11/09/2001 10:01:31 AM PST by a_Turk

In a Muslim country last year I answered the call to prayer.

It was a spur-of-the-moment thing. Like any tourist, I'd seen the inside of empty mosques, heard those enchanting calls several times a day, noticed the devout and had no desire to know them any better.

But that day I was a guest of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. I had a guide and our tour had arrived at a mosque a little too late. Men were inside and the midday prayers were starting.

On impulse I said I'd like to go in.

The guide, a woman, dressed like all Turkish Cypriots in ordinary European garb, said she was not allowed to go in but she had a word with two men sitting at the entrance.

A brief, intense debate in Turkish ensued.

She told me later that one of them regarded me, correctly, as an inquisitive tourist who should be told to shove off. The other insisted that since I wanted to come in, my heart must be open. He won, bless him.

So I dropped my shoes and padded across the carpet to join the last of several lines of men and boys. For the next few minutes I followed the ritual, concentrating so hard on matching the movements of those alongside me that I did not notice much else.

From the rostrum a prayer was read, I think. It was all over quite quickly.

Nobody had minded me. The few who caught my eye noticed I had no idea what I was doing. They seemed not at all annoyed or embarrassed, for themselves or me.

When Islam claims to be tolerant, I can say was to me.

Outside, I asked the guide why she could not go in. She giggled and said women could not attend the services lest the men have forbidden thoughts.

It is at moments like those that the gulf between the Islamic world and the rest is too wide for words. Right now, it is hard to see how a prolonged war in Afghanistan can avoid that chasm.

There is something deeply antagonistic between the Islamic way of life and others. From the Balkans to the Sudan, the Indian subcontinent, China and Central Asia, everywhere Islam rubs up with other cultures, there seems to be tension.

Why is it? I met a new immigrant from Macedonia not so long ago and asked what their problem was with Albanians in that country.

"When you get down to it," I said, "in ordinary daily life do you get along?"

"No," he replied.

It took some prodding before he nominated a precise reason.

"They will not let their women go out," he said. "But they [Albanian males] come around and try to pick up our women."

It was as basic as that.

In Cyprus I saw the divide from the Islamic side. The island has been partitioned since 1974, when Turkey seized the northern portion, fearing that a coup in Athens would lead to the genocide of Turkish Cypriots.

It was the end of 400 years of cohabitation with a Greek Cypriot majority who had been able to preserve their Eastern Orthodox Christianity under the Ottoman Empire.

For 400 years Muslims and Christians occupied the same cities, same countryside on the same small island. And in all that time there was almost no inter-marriage.

They lived in separate neighbourhoods and separate villages, a stone's throw from each other, attended different schools, followed different customs.

Within a few years of the island's independence in 1960, they were at each other's throats. "Why?" I asked the guide several times when the subject came up.

"They just don't like us," she said.

Western critics of the United States tell us we have no idea of the depth of resentment of the US on the streets of the Middle East. They ascribe it to the excesses of Israel and, more recently, the US air bases in Saudi Arabia that particularly incense Osama bin Laden.

But it probably runs much deeper. When George Bush and Tony Blair declare the enemy is not Islam but "evil" and they are fighting for "civilisation", Muslims probably hear different messages than we do.

They know, I suspect, what we really think of their religion, or at least of the outward signs of it. Through the pervasive influences of Western popular culture they know us far better than we know them.

They know exactly what we are thinking when we see those white-robed men striding about the Gulf with their wife draped head to toe in black, walking a few paces behind.

They may know we occasionally encounter a westernised woman from the Middle East and they may sense our disgust when she tells us about the pressure she has been under to veil herself.

The West deeply threatens their way of life without pointing a gun at it.

The US and Britain are doing their diplomatic utmost to keep this war from widening into the cataclysm that Osama bin Laden is doing his damnedest to foment.

Suddenly it seems a good idea to get to know Muslims much better.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
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1 posted on 11/09/2001 10:01:31 AM PST by a_Turk
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To: a_Turk
It's time for Muslims to know America!
2 posted on 11/09/2001 10:02:39 AM PST by Eric Esot
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To: a_Turk
"Suddenly it seems a good idea to get to know Muslims much better."

It depends on who the Muslims are, I guess. Our guys in Afghanistan are getting real personal with some Muslims.

3 posted on 11/09/2001 10:09:25 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: a_Turk
In basic herd terms, it seems quite simple: they guard their women and hit on ours, to increase the size of their harums and diminish ours.
4 posted on 11/09/2001 10:09:27 AM PST by RobbyS
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: a_Turk
Read the Quran and the Hadith.. These will help all seekers understand islamic law and the vagrancies of the Muslim faith. They are so contractory and intellectually disjointed in circular logic that nobody can say much more than the this: Muhammad is the prophet of God, why: because the Quran says so. Why is the Quran true? Because Muhammad said so.. Also investigate why Malcom X was snuffed 2/11/65. He found the hereitcal and racist nature of the black Muslim movement in America as a sham.. Yes, investigate these cookbooks. No wonder they are confused at the gates...
6 posted on 11/09/2001 10:21:42 AM PST by Broker
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To: Eric Esot
It's time for Muslims to know America!

Yup, and in one of two ways: (1) as a friendly, peace-loving nation to respect or (2) at the end of a gun watching a bullet coming. It's a binary thing now.
7 posted on 11/09/2001 10:27:48 AM PST by pt17
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To: a_Turk
One of the problems in Arab countries is that they expect their women to be chaste but the men are allowed to be like dogs in heat. No wonder they have problems. The men walk around all fired up and the women are bundled up in shrouds. They ogle and makes passes at American women here but expect their women to be ignored.
8 posted on 11/09/2001 10:34:47 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: a_Turk
It boils down to this. Islam is a primitive relgion that cannot coexist with the modern world. They are correct when they believe that exposure to the western world will change or destroy their relgion, and they are desperately attempting to stop the future. In other words, how ya gonna keep 'em in the tent, after they've seen TV?

Eventually, modern culture will overtake them, but not without a massive, ugly fight.

9 posted on 11/09/2001 10:34:56 AM PST by Pining_4_TX
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To: RobbyS
YOU HAVE A HAREM! What, are you in Utah? :)
10 posted on 11/09/2001 10:35:44 AM PST by Pining_4_TX
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To: a_Turk; *taliban_list
When muslims worldwide take to the streets to condemn the 9-11 atrocities, and their imams totally condemn Osama and Al Qaida and all of these terrorists, then I will feel a desire to get to know moslems better.

Until that day, the above is just about all I feel I need to know about moslems: millions of them want me and my family and my nation dead.

11 posted on 11/09/2001 10:36:56 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
I don't need to know them better. I just want to know where they live.
12 posted on 11/09/2001 10:38:38 AM PST by calljack
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To: calljack
Islam is a sexist religion. It is almost too much to put into words. So no one tells is like it really is.

"Outside, I asked the guide why she could not go in. She giggled and said women could not attend the services lest the men have forbidden thoughts."

The Muslim men are separated from the women, because they pray with their rear in the air, bowed down. Can you imagine a woman amongst them, bowed down like that? That would be just too tempting.

If gas is expelled while praying, they do not believe that God accepts that, so they must start their prayer all over again. Pity the poor guy with the gas, and the ones behind him. I think it is unimaginable, at least, it was for me.

13 posted on 11/09/2001 10:57:14 AM PST by tessalu
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To: tessalu
If gas is expelled while praying
This is exactly why we're so angry after Friday prayers!
14 posted on 11/09/2001 11:17:55 AM PST by a_Turk
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To: tessalu
If gas is expelled while praying, they do not believe that God accepts that, so they must start their prayer all over again. Pity the poor guy with the gas, and the ones behind him.

LOL. And besides that, did you know that you should drink camel urine as medicine, that Satan urinates in your ear if you fall asleep during prayers, that Satan stays in the upper part of the nose all night, and that not just passing gas, but yawning and bad breath are also from Satan?

Cordially

15 posted on 11/09/2001 11:26:04 AM PST by Diamond
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To: a_Turk
When Islam claims to be tolerant, I can say was to me.

Another self absorbed twit who is the center of the universe, and whose pathetic little sidetrip into a mosque is a substitute for knowledge of the past and the present.
Sure is easy.
What a shallow, superficial, insignificant definition of tolerance!

Mr Roughan, if you be a Christian, take your bible to Saudi Arabia.
Assuming you make it past customs, find a church of your denomination anywhere in Saudi Arabia.

Found one?
Methinks you might be starting to become aware of the real meaning of tolerance.

Twit!

16 posted on 11/09/2001 11:28:19 AM PST by Publius6961
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To: a_Turk
What a pathetic attempt at Arabprop, Abdul...
17 posted on 11/09/2001 11:29:18 AM PST by Publius6961
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To: Pining_4_TX
You have it exactly right.
18 posted on 11/09/2001 11:29:43 AM PST by white trash redneck
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To: a_Turk
All I got out of this was that women cause all of the trouble in the world.
19 posted on 11/09/2001 11:34:36 AM PST by CaptRon
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To: Publius6961
I knew I was going to get a lot of hate posted as a result. I could not help post this man's opinion.

I think much of what has been posted here represents reactions to the quality of the mainstream followers of Islam. I don't take it personally. I condemn terrorism, and I condemn hate.
20 posted on 11/09/2001 11:38:13 AM PST by a_Turk
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