Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Christian researcher seeks to shatter churches' 'illusions'
ABPNews - Volume: 01-93-2991 | 11/6/01 | Trennis Henderson

Posted on 11/10/2001 12:08:59 PM PST by anniegetyourgun

MIDDLETOWN, Ky. (ABP) -- Christian researcher and author George Barna doesn't try to make seminar participants feel good about what most churches are accomplishing across the nation. In fact, he does just the opposite. "In one regard, I want to shatter their illusions that everything is fine and the church is healthy and we should just keep doing more of what we're doing," Barna said.

"I don't think that's true at all," he added, citing years of extensive research in the field. "One of the things we've missed is the incredible significance of a life devoted to discipleship. We've turned it into programs and activities."

On the positive side, Barna said he wants to give church leaders "ideas about what to do about the situation."

"I'd like people to have a more objective understanding of the church and our culture today," he explained. "If people think creatively, intentionally and strategically about our ministries, we have some hope."

Barna, who founded Barna Research Group in 1984, said the organization seeks to provide "current, accurate and reliable information" that can help churches and their leaders "make more strategic decisions."

Barna currently is on a 15-month, 54-city seminar tour. He said his research staff spent 18 months conducting more than a dozen national studies involving thousands of participants in preparation for the seminars.

Topics addressed during four 90-minute sessions are rechurching the unchurched, growing true disciples of Jesus, building effective lay leadership teams and ministry evaluation.

Barna said the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks have provided churches "an incredible window of opportunity to minister in America, but that window is not going to stay open very long."

Emphasizing the importance of strengthening discipleship in American churches, Barna asked: "When the crowd comes, how do we deal with them? How are our people interacting with other people" during this time of national crisis?

Describing effective discipleship as "one of the most daunting challenges facing the church today," Barna said, "The church is not making much progress here and it's not getting better because we've become comfortable with what we're doing."

Barna said true discipleship "is effective in transforming people's lives and that's our ultimate goal here." He added, however, "I don't think we've taken this seriously enough."

Warning that "everything in our culture today, morally speaking, is up for grabs," Barna said studies indicate "the differences between Christians and non-Christians is minimal because we act so much like the world. What this boils down to is a discipleship issue."

"We have to be concerned about discipleship that develops character," Barna added. Churches "ought to be doing something deeper that helps people understand what it means to be a Christian in the 21st century."

Effective discipleship can be measured, Barna said, by examining members' involvement in such areas as worship, evangelism, stewardship, service and personal witness to the world.

He said obstacles that keep churches from seeing greater success in discipleship development include:

-- No measurable definition of success in the area of discipleship.

-- A focus on transmitting knowledge more than developing character.

-- Teaching that is random rather than systematic.

-- Limited accountability for members' spiritual growth.

-- Church leaders who are not zealous disciple-makers.

He said keys to effective discipleship include such factors as a clear definition of discipleship, measurable goals, ongoing spiritual self-assessment and widespread participation in intense discipleship opportunities.

"Do you have a model where people's lives are changing?" Barna asked. "What kind of church do


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-32 next last

1 posted on 11/10/2001 12:08:59 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: logos; lambo; Mark17; RnMomof7; Iowa Granny; Faith
Your thoughts?
2 posted on 11/10/2001 12:10:16 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: *Christian_list
Bump

I get asked all the time: “How do I get on this bump list?” Well the answer is you can’t! The FreeRepublic Master Bump List is not a list of people who get notified about a topic appearing on FreeRepublic but it is a list of topics that you can click on and have posts relevant to those topics displayed to you. There are many topics like “WOD_list” (War On Drugs) or “Homeschool_list” (Stories that Homeschoolers may be interested in) or “Homosexual Agenda” (A list of articles related to that topic). And they all appear on the The FreeRepublic Bump List

When you are reading an article you can add it to the list by posting a reply to that topic and in the “TO” box put the name of the list you want it to appear on preceded by an “*”. For example if you want the article to appear on the War on Drugs list then put “*WOD_list” in the “TO:” box instead of someones screen name. You can also put it on several lists by separating the list names with a simi-colon “;”. Then when you want to see the list go to The FreeRepublic Master Bump List and click on the link for that list. Don't forget to bookmark it in your favorites.

3 posted on 11/10/2001 12:12:45 PM PST by Khepera
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: anniegetyourgun
We've turned it into programs and activities."

Otherwise known as 'works'.

5 posted on 11/10/2001 12:22:10 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: anniegetyourgun
Well, you did not ask for my opinion but I will give it anyway. As a pastor involved in new church development Barna is like a prophet crying from the wilderness.Only problem is the church is not listening.Since most of the folks from my new congregation came from established churches they want to commitee everything to death rather than transforming lives.So Barna is right on the money here.So often the church is involved in "koinonitis" so inlove with itself that it can not go out into the real world and effectively minister the love of Jesus to a hurting and dying world. Well, I guess I have said enough for now.Will come back to this thread later and see how bad I got flamed.I am a newbie so be gentle with me. Ha!
6 posted on 11/10/2001 12:24:26 PM PST by lexington minuteman 1775
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: He Rides A White Horse
I suppose that is one angle on that comment. When I read it though, I was thinking about all the so-called seeker-friendly stuff and the seemingly urgent need to have programs every night of the week.
7 posted on 11/10/2001 12:24:33 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: lexington minuteman 1775
No flames here, Lex. I couldn't agree more.
8 posted on 11/10/2001 12:25:48 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: anniegetyourgun
Some of the vocabulary reminds me of the Crossroads movement and the Boston "international church" with Kip McKean, etc.
9 posted on 11/10/2001 12:31:25 PM PST by Schnucki
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: anniegetyourgun
bttt
10 posted on 11/10/2001 12:31:34 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Schnucki
LOL! I don't think that's the kind of "discipleship" that Barna is about! He's calling the Church to be the Church in terms of equipping, sending, and even (gasp) enforcing biblical church discipline/accountability.
11 posted on 11/10/2001 12:37:15 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Pastor; reverand; jesusfreak
Ping!
12 posted on 11/10/2001 12:44:51 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Ironword; DittoJed2
Ping!
13 posted on 11/10/2001 12:49:16 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: anniegetyourgun
jesus had but two commandments (i am purposely omitting his words on sacraments as they are not universally held by christians): "love your neighbor as yourself" and "go and make disciples of all nations".

barna is correct: we are not doing a good job of these. i especially like his comment about 9/11 being an opportunity to minister to people.

i would like to know about what barna thinks should be done to solve these problems
14 posted on 11/10/2001 12:49:55 PM PST by mlocher
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mlocher
Gee....and I thought the two included loving the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
15 posted on 11/10/2001 12:51:34 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: anniegetyourgun
"I don't think that's true at all," he added, citing years of extensive research in the field. "One of the things we've missed is the incredible significance of a life devoted to discipleship. We've turned it into programs and activities.

So we need to ask how does one become a disciple of Jesus Christ?

Jesus told his disciples

Matthew 28:17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
28:18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
28:19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
28:20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus sent them out,even in their doubt.He didn't suggest it,He orders it.

The author is correct that too many churches have become self contained country clubs..where you bring someone in to "get them saved"

That was never the command of Christ.He sent them out in two's to give individuals the Good News..He taught them ,prepared them and sent them out.He never told them to bring the lost to Him to hear,they were to tell.

A church is to equip the saints for this work..they are to teach us the word..help us "grow up "into Christ..they are to feed us and renew our strength..they should be there to "put a balm" on the wounds the world inflict....but discipleship is still a one on one call....

If we do not take the gospel into the world who will? We are told

2 Corinthians 3 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Is our life a letter worth reading by others?

I have gone on here....but every one that names the name of Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord is to be a disciple every day,in every place.

We have reduced it to a "program".We say we are going to "train " people

There is never the "right" time..we are never holy enough to do it..we are all more like the disciples that Jesus addressed we have fears and doubts....but we need to press forward to the mark..

BTW The author just sounds like a different program..if you have been seen Jesus ,you don't need a program..it is your hearts desire!

16 posted on 11/10/2001 12:55:14 PM PST by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
Did these people that doubted still cure lepers?
17 posted on 11/10/2001 1:00:46 PM PST by Governor StrangeReno
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: He Rides A White Horse
No, I think you mistaken. These "activities" are the opposite of "works". They are cheap thrills, entertainment, ie spiritual (if that much) junk. People don't want to discuss theology or even study the Bible. Tey would prefer getting a short, "spiritual" high, or be entertained, or perhaps meet and greet. It's not a new problem; churches have been considered social centers by people for centuries and as status symbols, but today churches are increasingly catering to spiritual devoid entertainment, which is precisely what people want. This is the age of ten minute attention spans, so long "boring" sermons and hymms can't capture people's attention. Some churches, I understand, have abolished preaching almost entirely, instead going to a "contemporary" service, wherein there is some praise choruses, a ten minute talk, and that's all. Not praise songs (which I think definetly have their place) interegrated into a service-this is just some entertainment which sadly for too many people is just a little bit of the schedule-their way of easing their consience for the week.

Do I sound deppresed, discouraged? You bet. But do I think this is the end? Heck naw. Even if the church in America dies away as it largely has in Europe, it is growing rapidly in former Communist states and in Muslim dominated lands. This would not be the first down the church has seen. God will prevail-whether or not we in the West will allow him to use us is up in the air.

18 posted on 11/10/2001 1:08:31 PM PST by Cleburne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: anniegetyourgun
as monty python would say, "there are two, i mean three, commandements ..."

don't mind me, i went to public schools
19 posted on 11/10/2001 1:13:00 PM PST by mlocher
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Cleburne
This is the age of ten minute attention spans

It is that.

20 posted on 11/10/2001 1:15:29 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-32 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson