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Both engines fell off, didn't they?
Vanity ^ | November 12, 2001 | me

Posted on 11/12/2001 9:32:00 AM PST by BillCompton

I haven't seen anyone talk about this.

We have all seen the engine in the Texaco parking lot. They are calling it wreckage, but a former NTSB expert was telling Peter Jennings that you could see that maybe there was damage to the side of it, etc. The point is, he certainly thought it was an engine.

Next, we hear a story about how an engine fell through a 3 story house and onto a boat. People were inside. Fire. Quite a few details. Is it me, or doesn't this mean that both engines fell off!


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
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1 posted on 11/12/2001 9:32:00 AM PST by BillCompton
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To: BillCompton
Is it me, or doesn't this mean that both engines fell off!

You don't know if it was you or the engines that fell off?

2 posted on 11/12/2001 9:33:08 AM PST by jlogajan
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To: BillCompton
Why is a vanity Breaking News?
3 posted on 11/12/2001 9:33:44 AM PST by AppyPappy
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To: BillCompton
Please don't place vanity posts as breaking news. As for your question, I'll wait a few more hours and let the signal-to-noise ratio improve.
4 posted on 11/12/2001 9:34:20 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: jlogajan
If you are going to insult someone else's grammer, you might as well get it right yourself.
5 posted on 11/12/2001 9:34:39 AM PST by KayEyeDoubleDee
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To: AppyPappy
Sorry. I didn't understand cause and effect. My bad.
6 posted on 11/12/2001 9:34:55 AM PST by BillCompton
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To: KayEyeDoubleDee
If you are going to insult someone else's grammer, you might as well get it right yourself.

How could I get someone else's grammer right?

7 posted on 11/12/2001 9:39:08 AM PST by jlogajan
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To: AppyPappy
There was an FAA airworthiness directive related to the engine mounts on this aircraft detailing a possible failure mode.

FAA document on problem with engine mount on A300



Airworthiness Directives

-Header Information
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

Federal Aviation Administration

14 CFR Part 39 [66 FR 16599 3/27/2001]
Docket No. 98-NE-35-AD; Amendment 39-12156, AD 2001-06-09

RIN 2120-AA64
Airworthiness Directives; General Electric Company CF6-80A3 Series Turbofan Engines


+Preamble Information

-Regulatory Information

2001-06-09 General Electric Company: Amendment 39-12156. Docket 98-NE-35-AD. Supersedes AD 98-15-17, Amendment 39-10668.

Applicability: General Electric Company (GE) CF6-80A3 series turbofan engines, with left hand aft engine mount link assemblies, part numbers (P/N's) 224-1608-501, 224-1608-503, or 224-1608-505 installed, or right hand aft engine mount link assemblies, P/N's 224-1609-503, 224-1609-505, or 224-1609-507 installed. These engines are installed on but not limited to Airbus Industrie A310-200 series airplanes.

Note 1: This airworthiness directive (AD) applies to each engine identified in the preceding applicability provision, regardless of whether it has been modified, altered, or repaired in the area subject to the requirements of this AD. For engines that have been modified, altered, or repaired so that the performance of the requirements of this AD is affected, the owner/operator must request approval for an alternative method of compliance in accordance with paragraph (d) of this AD. The request should include an assessment of the effect of the modification, alteration, or repair on the unsafe condition addressed by this AD; and, if the unsafe condition has not been eliminated, the request should include specific proposed actions to address it.

Compliance: Required as indicated, unless accomplished previously.

To prevent aft engine mount link failure, which can result in adverse redistribution of the aft engine mount loads and possible aft engine mount system failure, accomplish the following:

Initial Inspection
(a) Inspect aft engine mount link assemblies as follows:

Not Previously Inspected
(1) Within 400 cycles-in-service (CIS) after the effective date of this AD, if not previously inspected using Rohr Alert Service Bulletin (ASB) CF6-80A3-NAC-A71-061, Revision 1, dated February 22, 2000, or Rohr Alert Service Bulletin (ASB) CF6-80A3-NAC-A71-061, dated April 16, 1999; or

Previously Inspected
(2) Within 400 cycles-since-last-inspection (CSLI), if previously inspected using Rohr ASB CF6-80A3-NAC-A71-061, Revision 1, dated February 22, 2000, or Rohr ASB CF6-80A3-NAC-A71-061, dated April 16, 1999.

(3) Visually inspect for: separations, cracks, and spherical bearing race migration.

(4) Inspect in accordance with the Accomplishment Instructions of Rohr ASB CF6-80A3-NAC-A71-061, Revision 1, dated February 22, 2000.

Cracked or Separated Parts
(5) If a crack or separation is discovered, prior to further flight, remove the cracked or separated aft engine mount link assembly and the attaching hardware from service, and replace with serviceable parts.

Removal of Aft Engine Mount Link Assemblies with Spherical Bearing Race Migration
(6) If an aft engine mount link assembly is found with spherical bearing race migration, but no cracks or separations, prior to further flight, do either of the following:

Removal
(i) Remove the aft engine mount link assembly and the attaching hardware from service and replace with serviceable parts; or

Additional Borescope Inspection of Aft Engine Mount Link Assemblies with Spherical Bearing Race Migration
(ii) Perform an additional borescope inspection for cracks in accordance with paragraphs (2)(D)(5) and (2)(G)(5) of the Accomplishment Instructions of Rohr ASB CF6-80A3-NAC-A71-061, Revision 1, dated February 22, 2000, and perform the following:

After Additional Borescope Inspection, If Parts Are Cracked
(A) If a crack indication is discovered, prior to further flight, remove the cracked aft engine mount link assembly and the attaching hardware from service, and replace with serviceable parts.

After Additional Borescope Inspection, If Parts Are Not Cracked (Grace Period)
(B) If crack indications are not discovered, within 75 CIS after the inspection performed in accordance with paragraph (a)(6)(ii) of this AD, remove the aft engine mount link assembly from service, and replace with serviceable parts.

Attaching Hardware
(iii) Attaching hardware may be returned to service after inspection in accordance with paragraphs 2(D)(6)(a) or 2(G)(6)(a) of Rohr ASB CF6-80A3-NAC-A71-061, Revision 1, dated February 22, 2000, only if inspection of the removed link shows no cracks or separations.

Note 2: Link attaching hardware includes the nuts, bolts and washers that secure the link.

Repetitive Inspections
(b) Thereafter, perform the actions required by paragraph (a) and associated subparagraphs at intervals not to exceed 400 CSLI.

Replacement with Improved Link Assemblies
(c) Replace aft engine mount link assemblies with improved aft engine mount link assemblies at the next engine shop visit (ESV), or prior to accumulating 29,000 engine cycles since new (CSN), whichever occurs first.

(1) Replace in accordance with the Accomplishment Instructions of Rohr ASB CF6-80A3-NAC-A71-064, dated April 4, 2000.

Left Hand Aft Engine Mount Link Assemblies
(2) Replace left hand aft engine mount link assemblies, P/N's 224-1608-501, 224-1608-503, or 224-1608-505, with improved left hand aft engine mount link assemblies, P/N's 224-1608-507 or 224-1608-509.

Right Hand Aft Engine Mount Link Assemblies
(3) Replace right hand aft engine mount link assemblies, P/N's 224-1609-503, 224-1609-505, or 224-1609-507, with improved right hand aft engine mount link assemblies, P/N's 224-1609-509 or 224-1609-511.

Terminating Action
(4) Installation of improved aft engine mount link assemblies in accordance with paragraph (c) and its subparagraphs constitutes terminating action to the inspections required by paragraphs (a) and (b) of this AD.

Alternate Methods of Compliance
(d) An alternative method of compliance or adjustment of the compliance time that provides an acceptable level of safety may be used if approved by the Manager, Engine Certification Office. Operators shall submit their requests through an appropriate FAA Principal Maintenance Inspector, who may add comments and then send it to the Manager, Engine Certification Office.


Note 3: Information concerning the existence of approved alternative methods of compliance with this airworthiness directive, if any, may be obtained from the Engine Certification Office.

Special Flight Permits
(e) Special flight permits may be issued in accordance with sections 21.197 and 21.199 of the Federal Aviation Regulations (14 CFR 21.197 and 21.199) to operate the aircraft to a location where the inspection requirements of this AD can be accomplished.

Incorporation by Reference
(f) The FAA has reviewed and approved the technical content of the listed Rohr Alert Service Bulletins ASBs. The actions required by this AD shall be done in accordance with the following Rohr ASBs:
Document No. Pages Revision Date
ASB CF6-80A3-NAC-A71-061 1-11 Revision 1 February 22, 2000
Total pages: 11
ASB CF6-80A3-NAC-A71-064 1-8 Original April 4, 2000
Total pages: 8

The incorporations by reference were approved by the Director of the Federal Register in accordance with 5 U.S.C. 552 (a) and 1 CFR part 51. Copies may be obtained from Rohr, Inc., 850 Lagoon Dr., Chula Vista, CA 91910-2098; telephone 619-691-3102, fax 619-498-7215. Copies may be inspected at the FAA, New England Region, Office of the Regional Counsel, 12 New England Executive Park, Burlington, MA 01803-5299; or at the Office of the Federal Register, 800 North Capitol Street, NW., suite 700, Washington, DC.

Effective Date
(g) This amendment becomes effective on May 1, 2001.



+Footer Information

+Federal Register Information





+Comments
8 posted on 11/12/2001 9:39:24 AM PST by Fixit
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To: BillCompton
Mayor just said in press announcement that wing, part or complete (uncertain at this point) has been found in hte harbor previous to the crash site.

the wing blew off? uh huh...mechanical failure...right.

9 posted on 11/12/2001 9:42:01 AM PST by woollyone
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: jlogajan
How could I get someone else's grammer right?

Do you mean rights? Do they have a patent or copyright on their grammer? Would you be willing to pay them for it. Would they be willing to give you a limited-use license. Could it be that you are being purposely obtuse.
11 posted on 11/12/2001 9:44:52 AM PST by BillCompton
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To: BillCompton
Both engines came down, along with the whole rest of the plane. The first detached early in the event and hit the gas station. The rest of the plane came down, maybe or maybe not in pieces, and hit a residential area. The second engine might have detached: consider that the engine is the heaviest component by far, and is attached to a large flat surface...with the rest of the plane spinning out of control, the second engine might have torqued off.
12 posted on 11/12/2001 9:45:52 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: BillCompton
This is an article I found from the Wall Street Journal from Jan 2, 2001. It talks about the problems GE has had with the CF-6 engine. If I had more time I would post, sorry. Must Read

"I can't afford another engine failure," says Roger Seager, CF-6 project manager at GE's sprawling jet-engine plant near Cincinnati.

The company's huge aircraft-engine division contributes more than $10 billion of annual revenue, which is more than 9% of GE's total. The CF-6, one of three engines GE makes for big airliners, has a nearly 60% share of the widebody-jet market"

13 posted on 11/12/2001 9:46:59 AM PST by s2baccha
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To: KayEyeDoubleDee
Always be wary of criticising someone else's grammar/spelling, as Murphy's Law says that's the moment YOU are most likely to make such a mistake, with highly embarassing results.
14 posted on 11/12/2001 9:47:20 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: jlogajan
you did it again.
15 posted on 11/12/2001 9:48:30 AM PST by KayEyeDoubleDee
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: ctdonath2
I guess you could be correct. From the reports, both items were described as being about four blocks from the crash scene. Don't know if that is accurate or not.

IF both engines came off, it could mean that the airplane's integrity was not high because of some other reason, like a bomb.
17 posted on 11/12/2001 9:51:01 AM PST by BillCompton
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To: semper_libertas
correct!
18 posted on 11/12/2001 9:51:04 AM PST by KayEyeDoubleDee
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To: BillCompton
I'm certain that I've heard details about two separate engines, too.

I'm wondering about something else ... is this crash in Mike Moran's neighborhood? Isn't this where he said he lives?

19 posted on 11/12/2001 9:51:16 AM PST by watchin
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To: Angus_Day
Don't be talkin' 'bout ma granma! She's a saint!
20 posted on 11/12/2001 9:52:19 AM PST by Hatteras
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