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Bizarre chemical discovery gives homeopathic hint
The New Scientist ^ | 7 NOV 01 | Andy Coghlan

Posted on 11/12/2001 5:02:09 PM PST by vannrox

It is a chance discovery so unexpected it defies belief and threatens to reignite debate about whether there is a scientific basis for thinking homeopathic medicines really work.


A team in South Korea has discovered a whole new dimension to just about the simplest chemical reaction in the book - what happens when you dissolve a substance in water and then add more water.


Conventional wisdom says that the dissolved molecules simply spread further and further apart as a solution is diluted. But two chemists have found that some do the opposite: they clump together, first as clusters of molecules, then as bigger aggregates of those clusters. Far from drifting apart from their neighbours, they got closer together.


The discovery has stunned chemists, and could provide the first scientific insight into how some homeopathic remedies work. Homeopaths repeatedly dilute medications, believing that the higher the dilution, the more potent the remedy becomes.


Some dilute to "infinity" until no molecules of the remedy remain. They believe that water holds a memory, or "imprint" of the active ingredient which is more potent than the ingredient itself. But others use less dilute solutions - often diluting a remedy six-fold. The Korean findings might at last go some way to reconciling the potency of these less dilute solutions with orthodox science.


Completely counterintuitive


German chemist Kurt Geckeler and his colleague Shashadhar Samal stumbled on the effect while investigating fullerenes at their lab in the Kwangju Institute of Science and Technology in South Korea. They found that the football-shaped buckyball molecules kept forming untidy aggregates in solution, and Geckler asked Samal to look for ways to control how these clumps formed.


What he discovered was a phenomenon new to chemistry. "When he diluted the solution, the size of the fullerene particles increased," says Geckeler. "It was completely counterintuitive," he says.


Further work showed it was no fluke. To make the otherwise insoluble buckyball dissolve in water, the chemists had mixed it with a circular sugar-like molecule called a cyclodextrin. When they did the same experiments with just cyclodextrin molecules, they found they behaved the same way. So did the organic molecule sodium guanosine monophosphate, DNA and plain old sodium chloride.


Dilution typically made the molecules cluster into aggregates five to 10 times as big as those in the original solutions. The growth was not linear, and it depended on the concentration of the original.


"The history of the solution is important. The more dilute it starts, the larger the aggregates," says Geckeler. Also, it only worked in polar solvents like water, in which one end of the molecule has a pronounced positive charge while the other end is negative.


Biologically active


But the finding may provide a mechanism for how some homeopathic medicines work - something that has defied scientific explanation till now. Diluting a remedy may increase the size of the particles to the point when they become biologically active.


It also echoes the controversial claims of French immunologist Jacques Benveniste. In 1988, Benveniste claimed in a Nature paper that a solution that had once contained antibodies still activated human white blood cells. Benveniste claimed the solution still worked because it contained ghostly "imprints" in the water structure where the antibodies had been.


Other researchers failed to reproduce Benveniste's experiments, but homeopaths still believe he may have been onto something. Benveniste himself does not think the new findings explain his results because the solutions were not dilute enough. "This [phenomenon] cannot apply to high dilution," he says.


Fred Pearce of University College London, who tried to repeat Benveniste's experiments, agrees. But it could offer some clues as to why other less dilute homeopathic remedies work, he says. Large clusters and aggregates might interact more easily with biological tissue.


Double-check


Chemist Jan Enberts of the University of Groningen in the Netherlands is more cautious. "It's still a totally open question," he says. "To say the phenomenon has biological significance is pure speculation." But he has no doubt Samal and Geckeler have discovered something new. "It's surprising and worrying," he says.


The two chemists were at pains to double-check their astonishing results. Initially they had used the scattering of a laser to reveal the size and distribution of the dissolved particles. To check, they used a scanning electron microscope to photograph films of the solutions spread over slides. This, too, showed that dissolved substances cluster together as dilution increased.


"It doesn't prove homeopathy, but it's congruent with what we think and is very encouraging," says Peter Fisher, director of medical research at the Royal London Homeopathic Hospital.


"The whole idea of high-dilution homeopathy hangs on the idea that water has properties which are not understood," he says. "The fact that the new effect happens with a variety of substances suggests it's the solvent that's responsible. It's in line with what many homeopaths say, that you can only make homeopathic medicines in polar solvents."


Geckeler and Samal are now anxious that other researchers follow up their work. "We want people to repeat it," says Geckeler. "If it's confirmed it will be groundbreaking".


Journal reference: Chemical Communications (2001, p 2224)




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A very interesting read.
1 posted on 11/12/2001 5:02:09 PM PST by vannrox (MyEMail)
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To: vannrox
Is this a peer-reviewed journal?

This sounds very suspicious to this chem major....

2 posted on 11/12/2001 5:05:32 PM PST by jude24
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To: vannrox
Now that is stretching an observation to support a conclusion!
3 posted on 11/12/2001 5:06:37 PM PST by TheLooseThread
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To: vannrox; Physicist
Off the top of my head, I don't think relating the behavior of fullerenes to other substances can be so casual. I wouldn't be surprised if they act in ways more typical molecules don't.
4 posted on 11/12/2001 5:08:35 PM PST by mlo
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To: jude24
It sounds suspicious to me, too (I have degrees in chemistry and chemical engineering) but I read of similar findings a couple of years ago. I seem to remember that it was published in Nature but I could be wrong.
5 posted on 11/12/2001 5:09:02 PM PST by DallasMike
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To: DallasMike
"...To say the phenomenon has biological significance is pure speculation." But he has no doubt Samal and Geckeler have discovered something new. "It's surprising and worrying," he says..."

Hmmm...

6 posted on 11/12/2001 5:12:50 PM PST by vannrox
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: vannrox
I'll have a scotch and water and water and a little more water and water and water with just a little more water, if you don't mind bartender.

But just one for me, I'm driving.

8 posted on 11/12/2001 5:15:59 PM PST by steve in DC
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To: steve in DC
Junk Science.
9 posted on 11/12/2001 5:16:56 PM PST by corkoman
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To: DallasMike
Darn Homophobik medicine.

"What's å friggin' fag know about docterin' anyway!"

What about the opposite chemistry guys?

Remember rinsing to the third degree using distilled water to clean a vessel to an exponential level.

I'm not in the lab anymore, but I use it when making coffee{rinsing pot, thermos, etc. w/distilled h20 in a pumpspray}.

Everyone says I make the best coffee.

10 posted on 11/12/2001 5:18:08 PM PST by norraad
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To: vannrox
Thanks for posting this! I'll be sure to send it to my homeopath.

My entire family's been using homeopathic remedies for years and we rarely if ever need to see a doc, but no one believes us when we tell them! Oh well.

Hope this kind of research encourages other people to try it too.

11 posted on 11/12/2001 5:19:44 PM PST by ana
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To: steve in DC
"football-shaped buckyball molecules"..... I wish they could put this in layman's terms.
12 posted on 11/12/2001 5:21:06 PM PST by isom35
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To: vannrox
Here's what a Bucky Ball looks like:

The spheres are carbon atoms.

Bucky Balls aren't that soluble in water. In an aqueous environment they tend to agglomerate. Continuing agglomeration of these molecules with incremental addition of water is not that surprising.

13 posted on 11/12/2001 5:36:20 PM PST by jimkress
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To: ana
My entire family's been using homeopathic remedies for years and we rarely if ever need to see a doc, but no one believes us when we tell them! Oh well.

Thats a post hoc ergo propter hoc argument. In english that means, "after this, therefore becaise of that" and is the fallacious reasoning that because an event occurs after a previous one, they are causationally linked. That's VERY difficult to prove, but causation is the realm that science investigates.

There could be a multitude of reasons why you're healthy-- not involving homeopathic medicine. Nutrition, luck, exercise, any number of factors could be involved. But too frequently alternative medicine evangelists seize upon anecdotal evidence like this as reasons that you should try the latest cure.

I maintain that alternative medicine is not mainstream for a reason. If it really worked, doctors would use it to make them money.

14 posted on 11/12/2001 5:38:08 PM PST by jude24
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: vannrox
How interesting. I've used homeopathic remedies with remarkable success. It's fascinating to see an article on why homeopathy works.
18 posted on 11/12/2001 5:48:11 PM PST by Darnright
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To: jude24
Wonder how much money a Doctor would make now, if he/she had to hang a lantern outside his house for every patient that died?
19 posted on 11/12/2001 5:48:14 PM PST by carenot
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To: ana
My entire family's been using homeopathic remedies for years and we rarely if ever need to see a doc, but no one believes us when we tell them! Oh well.

My homeopath IS a doctor.

20 posted on 11/12/2001 5:48:24 PM PST by ikanakattara
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