Posted on 11/16/2001 1:27:05 PM PST by Earl B.
At first, I just assumed someone slipped Bill Safire some bad acid. His column on Thursday was so histrionic in its conclusions, and so elliptical in its logic, I expected him to start screaming that there were spiders all over him or that his clock was melting. But, it seems he's actually serious. The one columnist the New York Times claims is a "conservative" begins his column:
And then he gets hysterical. And it looks like whatever Safire's been drinking has gotten into the water supply, because my Washington Post this morning breathlessly declares: "Mr. Bush is claiming for himself the authority to unilaterally exempt a class of people accused of particular crimes from the protections of the Constitution." Um, yeah. That "class of people" is called "the enemy." Or maybe I'm missing something. Let's back up for a second. The president has announced that he might invoke his authority to try captured combatants in military tribunals, if he deems it necessary, in this obviously amorphous war on terrorism. It's not clear he will use this power at all, but it is clear he will not use it on American citizens. The consensus seems to be that this is a policy in anticipation of the unfortunate capture as opposed to the fortunate killing of Osama bin Laden or one of his top aides. In other words, if we catch a foreigner in Afghanistan or in Cleveland who was directly involved in killing Americans, we might not resort to reading him his Miranda rights and put him on public trial in a civilian court. Then again, we might. But either way, by all accounts, the decision will be made based upon the risks to national security of putting classified information into the public record, or of giving a microphone to Osama bin Laden. There's also the issue of asking civilian jurors never mind judges to risk their lives by putting a terrorist on trial. And, there's also a concern that Americans would be subjected to endless hijackings, kidnappings, and attacks until bin Laden (or one his associates) was released. Now, it's fine to disagree with the decision. Though actually, the only thing that's been decided is to make the announcement that the president has this power and might use it (as U.S. presidents have, from time to time, for two centuries). It may not be worth the public-relations fallout. It may not be worth the trouble or the precedent or whatever. Fine, fine, fine; these are all legitimate points. But if you listen to the critics on TV, or read Safire's column, you'd think the United States was handing out blindfolds in Times Square and shooting people willy-nilly. What's funny is that this is entirely a legalistic or ethical argument. It has absolutely nothing to do with morality. Safire has no problem with summarily killing Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan. He even suggests that we should kill him if he surrenders so long as we can get away with it. He seems untroubled by the fact that we are certainly killing some number of innocent people, who have no connection to al Qaeda, with our bombing campaign. I'm not too troubled by it either, but surely, as a matter of morality, it's worse to kill the undeserving without any trial than to kill the deserving with a less-than-perfect military trial. That's what I find so offensive about Safire's tone. He's hurling accusations of bad faith and assuming a stance of moral outrage when he doesn't really care about the actual justice, only about the procedures. It's the equivalent of saying, "I don't care about the killing, but you have to file the right paperwork." Indeed, by setting such a high political price for taking prisoners, Safire & co. are actually encouraging more summary executions. The administration gets a free pass on killing people in Afghanistan. But if they take anyone alive, they have to jump through the hoops of an internationally embarrassing and militarily dangerous trial. Why wouldn't the administration simply say, "Who needs the hassles? Kill 'em all." Three soldiers in a cave with shoot-to-kill orders make a less-fair tribunal than do three officers in a wood-paneled room with a jury and a legal advocate. But Safire doesn't care about that. The Case For Tribunals Actually, the Geneva Convention is just one of a pile of rules set up by "civilized nations" over millennia, to minimize the horror of war. Since ancient times, nations and even tribes have worked on rules to safeguard the treatment of civilians, soldiers, and just about everybody else during war. One such convention is the uniform. Uniforms have lots of benefits, but one of them is that they help soldiers keep from killing people who aren't soldiers. "The enemy is over there; the guys in the turquoise jackets and brown pants. You can kill them, not the women in the skirts or the old men in the vests." The guys in the turquoise jackets and brown pants got similar orders. In other words, soldiers should fight soldiers. Period. Of course, that was always a rule of thumb more than an iron law. And it got especially fudged in the modern era, when civilian production centers became central to the machinery of war. That's why they came up with the Geneva Convention to update the rules of war in the era of total war. But here's the important thing: If you reject the Geneva Convention and the other rules of civilized nations, you don't become entitled to better treatment if you get caught. If you did, why would anyone sign it? The whole point of civilization is that those who abide by its rules get better treatment than those who do not. Al Qaeda doesn't issue uniforms. All of their soldiers are essentially spies not civilians. They infiltrate a nation and attack civilian targets without warning. By not making it clear that they are combatants here or abroad they are in effect using civilians as camouflage, or human shields. But for some reason, Safire & co. think that the fact that they don't look like soldiers means they should be treated better than soldiers. After all, would Safire or the Washington Post have a problem with a military tribunal for an Iraqi colonel captured during the Gulf War? Okay, maybe they would. But I doubt Safire would sputter about a "panic stricken attorney general" or denounce American "kangaroo courts." Look: You cannot expressly declare war on American civilians, blow up a bunch of them with stolen civilian aircraft, and then, when you get caught, expect to be treated according to the highest standards of the civilized world. This, as the cliché goes, is a new kind of war. But it is not a new kind of war by our choosing. If it were up to us, there'd be no war at all. And if we could choose the sort of war had to fight, it would be a conventional one with a nearby country, and with a uniformed army using tanks and planes or, better, Nerf bats. Alas, you can't always get what you want. But just because the enemy is too cowardly to put on a uniform, that doesn't mean we should treat him better than we would a soldier brave enough to put one on.
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We can start with Mr. jonah goldberg. He can, of course, under the standards of evidence of the tribunals, prove that he is an american citizen. If that doesn't work, he can prove that he is innocent of whatever charges they charge him with.
So it may depend on how good a lawyer he can hire. But wait... a very "competent" one will be appointed by the tribunal. one who is "outcomes oriented" -- to speed justice along of course.
Of course we won't know about this, as these are "secret". all we'll know is that he's disapeared.
Ah, but there's the fault in your reasoning. The military tribunals don't compromise the Constitution. They have been ruled by the Supreme Court to be completely Constitutional. What YOU suggest is that we extend the Constitutional rights afforded Americans to non-Americans overseas who have declared war on our Constitution and our way of life. Here's the point: If you hate us and our Constitution, and try to destroy both, then we will not grant you the same rights as we grant those who believe in and support our Constitution.
By the way, wouldn't OBL and his buddies be absolute hypocrites to demand a trial with full Constitutional rights? They condemn our society and our Constitution. They should get a trial conducted with the same civil rights that defendants on trial in Afghanistan received under the Taliban. Wouldn't that be more fair?
It won't be tried with Jonah, or you, or me, because we are American citizens and are not spies. As Cheney explained, the tribunals are reserved for "foreign terrorists" who have worked actively in the effort to murder thousands of American citizens. This is not the camel's nose under the tend of totalitarianism. Get a freepin' grip. Would you rather the alternatives that are sure to happen -- free publicity for Osama, a circus trial, danger to the civilian jury, possibility of hostage-taking, etc.?
of course we're americans, of course we're not spies. we're just going to have a hard time proving it under the standards of the "court".
And thats kind of funny -- that the reason it won't be used against us is because we're not spies. the old "the innocent have nothing to hide, because the the prosecution NEVER gets it wrong" argument.
Any decent spy/terrorist would use these as his first line of defence -- that he is an american and he is not a spy.
Yeeah...until America wakes up and finds that the "enemy" is us. Enjoy your RTKABA? Soon, you'll be part of the definiton of "enemy". Don't belive me? Remember Janet Nero's definition of a "terrorist"? It included those who hold to strong RKBA's, belived in a literal translation of the Bible and the literal return of Jesus. If these new laws were passed by x42 and his minions, there isn't a conservative soul here who wouldn't be up in arms (figuratively of course) about it.
But because these laws are being passed under the watchful eye of the man we wanted in office...well...sure...let's just blindly get in line behind our leaders.
Where are those who condemned x42 for downsizing our defenses? They seem awfully silent in the face of GB cutting our nuke supply, while Russis agrees to nothing of the sort in writing.
Where are all of those who were angry about all the base closings x42 pushed? Silent again as GB does the exact same thing!
Now that a Republican is in office, it seems terribly out of vogue to not trust the Fedgov. I voted for GB and protested loudly during the election fraud here in FL, but let's face a bit of reality...the FedGov is NOT your friend and they still need to be kept under watchful scrutiny. Let's not just wave our flags and blindly support policies that harm our liberties.
Wait and see...it may not be this administration that turns these laws on us directly, but another will come after it. Then these laws, with their double edge, might be wielded the opposite direction and cut our Republic to ribbons.
Call up the Strawman Manufacturing Company, they sent you a defective one. All Jonah or myself needs to do is present a passport or a birth certificate - I've got both, what about you?
Me too. I wonder if any spies or terrorists can get their hands on them, and if the tribunal will let that get in their merry way.
First of all, the passport would simply define where the perp would be tried - it would not be a get out of jail free card. And second, passports can be verified, and authorities could easily trace a bogus one in that situation.
I'm not sure where the internment of the Japanese comes in. Why not throw in "separate but equal." Look if you want to extend the rights afforded American citizens to a Saudi terrorist, operating from Afghanistan, captured and tried in Pakistan (or who knows where), then fine. Just don't kid yourself that the Constitution requires it. It doesn't.
Frankly, any sort of trial is more than these guys deserve. One bullet, and send the bill to his Saudi Arabian family.
If we kill the terrorists, then the terrorists win. Yeah, Right!
Another afficianado of lawyer socialism, America's curse.
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