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Bin Laden Is Reported Spotted in a Fortified Camp in Eastern Afghanistan
New York Times ^ | 11/25/01 | TIM WEINER

Posted on 11/24/2001 6:32:37 PM PST by kattracks

JALALABAD, Afghanistan, Nov. 24 — Osama bin Laden was seen this week at a large and well-fortified encampment 35 miles southwest of this city, a minister of the self-proclaimed government here said tonight.

The official, Hazarat Ali, the law and order minister for the Eastern Shura, which claims dominion over three major provinces in eastern Afghanistan, said trusted informants had told him that Mr. bin Laden was spotted near Tora Bora, a village where two valleys meet in deep mountains in Nangarhar Province.

"We have some people who told us that three or four days ago, Osama bin Laden was in Tora Bora," Mr. Ali said. "I trust them like my mother or father."

"He is moving at night on horseback," he said, citing his informants. "At night he sleeps in caves."

Overlooking the village of Tora Bora is a large network of mountain caves and forts used by the Afghan rebels who fought the Soviet Union in the 1980's. Eastern Shura commanders say operatives of Al Qaeda, Mr. bin Laden's organization, paid the villagers of Tora Bora $50 a family to vacate the village weeks ago.

Aides to Mr. Ali say as many as 2,000 foreign fighters — "Afghan Arabs," as they are called here — are at Tora Bora too, armed with rifles, machine guns and surface-to-surface missiles.

He described the fighters as "experienced and suicidal."

Mr. Ali's intelligence chief, Sohrab Qadri, said the Tora Bora encampment lay along a ridge of the White Mountains, and could not easily be reached except on horseback. It includes a network of caves, bunkers and ammunition depots, he said, and is sheltered by deep forests. The Afghan rebels who fought the Soviets wintered there over several years, he said, and he assumed that the caves included heating and ventilation systems.

The reported sighting of Mr. bin Laden may lead to an increased American presence in and around Jalalabad, which is precisely what the Eastern Shura commanders would like to see.

They are eager to get their hands on American weapons and matériel to help them shore up their week-old government.

Soviet Army reports described the most sophisticated caves used by the Afghan rebels as "the last word in NATO engineering." Some of the caves were upgraded in the mid-to- late 1980's, when the rebels were receiving hundreds of millions of dollars a year in covert aid from the United States and Saudi Arabia.

The Soviets threw almost everything in their arsenal at the caves, short of tactical nuclear weapons, but with little success. They did not have the precision-guidance systems possessed by the Pentagon. But "bombing alone will not be effective" against the caves at Tora Bora, Mr. Qadri said. He said the site would have to be taken by siege.

A network of mule trails connects Tora Bora and the Afghan border with Pakistan. It was a three-day journey for the men and the mule trains that moved weapons and supplies from Pakistan into Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation. The trail ends in the Tirah Valley of Pakistan.

Mr. Ali said it was possible that Mr. bin Laden would "slip into Pakistan" if Tora Bora came under heavy attack. Other Eastern Shura commanders said Mr. bin Laden was taking shelter in early October at a farm in Nangarhar Province owned by Yunis Khalis, a commander of Afghan rebels in the 1980's who was closely allied with the Taliban.

They said that Mr. bin Laden left the farm days before the American bombing started in October and that "Afghan Arabs" in his retinue had gone to Tora Bora to secure the site.


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
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1 posted on 11/24/2001 6:32:37 PM PST by kattracks
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To: kattracks
"I trust them like my mother or father."

yeah, right! and i've got some cheap land to sell ya.

2 posted on 11/24/2001 6:34:07 PM PST by ken21
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To: ken21; kattracks
Here's an interesting look at these "camps"........not this one, but one close to it.

Afghanistan - Darunta Camp Complex

3 posted on 11/24/2001 6:39:47 PM PST by Howlin
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To: kattracks
Paid the villagers to vacate the village and it is now occupied by 2,000 foreign fighters? They can't be that stupid. If it were so, that would be one village that ceased to exist after some serious bombing.
4 posted on 11/24/2001 6:41:14 PM PST by paul51
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To: Howlin
Here's the main page:

REVEALED: BIN LADEN'S LAIR EXCLUSIVE PHOTOS FROM SPACE SHOW ASTONISHING
TERROR HQ THAT TROOPS WILL AIM TO WIPE OUT

5 posted on 11/24/2001 6:41:14 PM PST by Howlin
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To: kattracks
Bin Laden escaping with one of his wives. Not sure if this is authentic or not.
6 posted on 11/24/2001 6:43:23 PM PST by NC Conservative
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To: kattracks
My guess is that it was an Osama look-alike. Why would the real guy want to be seen in an encampment subject to full-scale attack? There'd be no need for us to use precision weaponry to reduce collateral damage. The camp would be leveled ... not just leveled, but obliterated 60 feet down. Nothing left but a gravel pit.
7 posted on 11/24/2001 6:48:22 PM PST by AngrySpud
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To: NC Conservative
That can't be him. The article said he escaped on horseback, not Harley.

However, I'm sure that is one of his wives probably running off with an Osama double.

8 posted on 11/24/2001 6:51:38 PM PST by vrwc54
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To: kattracks
Useless information...days old and released publically. It probably never was true anyway. Bugs Bunny knew how to say, "Eh, 'e went thataway." I'm sure Osama can figure out how to send out false reports of his whereabouts too. Anyway, I'm convinced the guy is undead anyway. We better have a holly stake and garlic close at hand.
9 posted on 11/24/2001 6:53:39 PM PST by ChemistCat
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To: kattracks
"experienced and suicidal"

Soon they will be experienced at suicide.

Mr. bin Laden left the farm days before

And let's hope he buys the farm in the days to come.

10 posted on 11/24/2001 6:54:06 PM PST by financeprof
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To: kattracks
I surmise that we have known where he's at all along. Box him in, while we're buzy shreading his forces and wait until the end to get him. That way no one gets to scream stop the bombing. Nope, there'll be no repeat of stopping short of ridding the Earth of these scum ala Desert Storm.
11 posted on 11/24/2001 6:54:17 PM PST by SCHROLL
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To: NC Conservative
All of your virgin sheep are belong to us!!
12 posted on 11/24/2001 6:59:41 PM PST by 1 FELLOW FREEPER
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To: Howlin
Thanks for the link. Those pictures clearly show tunnel entrances and other landmarks - even I could figure out what they were without the captions. I wonder what the experts can do with much better photos?

I'll answer my own question: take out every one of bin Laden's hiding places.

13 posted on 11/24/2001 7:02:44 PM PST by michaelt
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To: kattracks
"He is moving at night on horseback," he said, citing his informants. "At night he sleeps in caves."

So this is the fate Allah has assigned to big brave Osama as a reward for commanding a Holy War against the "Great Satan".
Pathetic.

14 posted on 11/24/2001 7:10:47 PM PST by Jorge
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To: kattracks
Experienced and suicidal...isn't that an oxymoron?
15 posted on 11/24/2001 7:16:05 PM PST by Doohickey
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To: ken21
If in the winter OBL will hide in Tora Bora.

Was he in Bora Bora last summmer?

16 posted on 11/24/2001 7:30:02 PM PST by KQQL
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To: michaelt
Notice the date on those photos. I understand the United States has purchased ALL the photos from spaceimaging for the last couple of years -- to keep anybody else from getting them.

They really are interesting to look at though, aren't they?

17 posted on 11/24/2001 7:35:25 PM PST by Howlin
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To: kattracks
Mr. bin Laden

This doesn't even conform to the Times' own stylebook. Second reference to a man is supposed to be the surname only, unless he has a title. Notice that the President of the United States isn't called "Mr. Bush." He's just "Bush." So is every other male. What's up with this? Can't show enough respect to America's greatest enemy since Hitler, eh, Times?

Looks like the Grey Lady is a ho.

18 posted on 11/24/2001 7:36:00 PM PST by IronJack
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: kattracks; Victoria Delsoul; harpseal; Travis McGee; Spirit Of Truth; Manny Festo...
Osama Paki-pool Update:

Osama bin DEAD-pool Update:

All right, here's the up-to-date list for the Osama bin DEAD-pool. Still plenty of open dates, so flag me on this thread if you want in. As you've noticed, since he doesn't look like he'll make it to Pakistan, I went ahead and changed the name of the pool. Sue me.


November 16: First day of Ramadan!
November 17: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub - Nope.
November 18: OPEN
November 19: OPEN
November 20: OPEN
November 21: OPEN
November 22: Azzurri -- Thanksgiving - Nope.
November 23: Sabertooth - Nope.
November 24: Jefferson Adams - Not looking good.
November 25: Victoria Delsoul - On the bubble.
November 26: airborne
November 27: harpseal
November 28: OPEN
November 29: Tunehead54
November 30: Travis McGee

December   1: alancarp
December   2: onyx
December   3: AfghanAirShow
December   4: Straight Vermonter
December   5: Pokey78
December   6: proudofthesouth
December   7: null and void -- Pearl Harbor Day
December   8: MaeWest
December   9: OPEN
December 10: glock rocks
December 11: KayEyeDoubleDee
December 12: Washi
December 13: FreedomFarmer
December 14: irish guard
December 15: hattend

Not sure when Ramadan ends, but around here somewhere.

December 16: nunya bidness
December 17: abner
December 18: anniegetyourgun
December 19: OPEN
December 20: mdittmar
December 21: OPEN
December 22: OPEN
December 23: OPEN
December 24: RasterMaster -- Christmas Eve
December 25: Go Gordon -- Christmas Day
December 26: Loyalist
December 27: OPEN
December 28: Snow Bunny
December 29: OPEN
December 30: OPEN
December 31: Miss Marple -- New Year's Eve

I really don't think it's going to go this long, but I've had requests for January…

January   1: Freeper 007 -- New Year's Day
January   2: OPEN
January   3: OPEN
January   4: OPEN
January   5: OPEN
January   6: OPEN
January   7: OPEN
January   8: PoisedWoman -- Elvis' Birthday
January   9: OPEN
January 10: OPEN


If you're not sure what the whole "Paki-pool" idea was about, check out this link from a thread posted by Travis McGee on October 25th...

Will Osama Appear In Pakistan?

The operating theory is was that Osama bin Laden had a plan all along to show up in Pakistan, have himself declared the "Imam al-Mahdi" (a long-prophesied Islamic savior-figure), and start a civil war in an attempt to gain control of Pakistan's nukes.

Sound crazy?

So is he. Crazy evil.

It's still an interesting read.


20 posted on 11/24/2001 7:51:02 PM PST by Sabertooth
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