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Say Goodbye to England
newsmax ^ | Nov. 30, 2001 | Paul Craig Roberts

Posted on 11/30/2001 6:02:34 AM PST by lavaroise

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Say Goodbye to England
Paul Craig Roberts
Nov. 30, 2001

Anglophiles had best pop over to the Misty Isles for a last experience of Great Britain before the country is reduced to an oppressed province of the European Union.

Napoleon could not conquer England, nor could Hitler, but socialist bureaucrats in Brussels have, with help from Tony Blair's New Labour and British nonchalance. Britain is on its way back to the reign of Charles I, with its secret courts and imprisonment without trial or evidence.

Once-proud Brits are suffering the indignity of being gradually brought under European law by ministerial edicts that bypass Parliament. Recently the British lost their ancient system of weights and measures, and now they are on the verge of losing their legal system, the development of which is, essentially, the history of Britain.

Although willing to be bullied along the path to European integration, the British steadfastly have held on to their justice system. And for good reason.

Historically, English law has been a shield of the people, standing in stark contrast to Europe's Napoleonic criminal law, which does not safeguard law against its use by government as a weapon.

English law does not permit police to arrest citizens without evidence or to hold them more than 48 hours without presenting charges in open court. The European system permits police to arrest citizens on suspicion and to detain them indefinitely while preparing a case against them.

Moreover, the accused European has no right to see the evidence against him, no right to a jury trial and no right to an open court. His case is decided by a professional judge, whose career and advancement are dependent on the state that brings the case.

Under European law, there is no presumption of innocence or protection against double jeopardy. The accused can be subjected to repeated trials on the same charges until the state wins a guilty verdict.

The English fought a civil war to rid themselves of such an oppressive "justice system," and now in a sweep of anti-terrorism hysteria the Blair government is sponsoring a "terrorism bill" that signs away the English birthright.

The "Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Bill" currently moving through Parliament contains a provision (109) that removes Parliament from the decision to replace English law with Europe's Corpus Juris. Unless Parliament rejects this provision, the EU Council of Ministers in Brussels, with the concurrence of the British Home Secretary, can vote away English legal protections and replace habeas corpus with Napoleon's code.

The British also face the unpleasant prospect of being tried by European prosecutors for offenses that are not crimes in Britain. A few days ago Law Lord Richard Scott asked the government to give more careful thought to the European arrest warrant. The warrant does not require evidence and would permit British citizens to be extradited to Europe for interrogation should they be suspected of crimes such as racism and xenophobia (fear or hatred of foreigners). Surely this spells the end of soccer.

Will this direct threat to British liberty cause the Brits to confront honestly the loss of sovereignty required by European integration? Lord Tebbit was succinct on Nov. 1 when he said ratification of the Nice Treaty (European integration) "would be both contrary to Magna Carta and a breach of the Coronation Oath, which sprang from the settlement of 1688" that established the accountability of law.

If the British decide to give up sovereignty, they might try for better terms. Why not form a European Union on the basis of English Law? This would be a huge gain for all of Europe by bringing English liberties at long last to the Continent. Are the British people so smitten by Europe that they would give up their historic achievements and replace "law as shield" with "law as weapon"?

The Labour government has not been honest with the people about the implications of European Union. Instead, Brits have been led down the path with assurances that they can be both British and European. Now that shopkeepers are being arrested for selling by the pint and pound instead of by the liter and kilo, the British might realize that Europe is a threat to their national character and to their liberty.

Dr. Roberts' latest book, "The Tyranny of Good Intentions," has just been released by Prima Publishers.

Copyright 2001 Creators Syndicate Inc.


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I guess if you would fight in self defense in Europe, you could be sued time and again and held in jail until they'd be sure it was self defense. In other words, if a crime happens in your vicinity, run away, it ain't worth it. If you are forced to fight back, fight back and run away also.
1 posted on 11/30/2001 6:02:34 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: lavaroise
Unreal. And of course, once they have the EU sewn up, the USA being controlled by the UN (or some other NWO group) will be on deck...

Too bad the limeys lost their spine about the same time they lost Margaret Thatcher.

Damned shame, too...

2 posted on 11/30/2001 6:15:44 AM PST by Capitalist Eric
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To: lavaroise
Somehow I feel we're next.
The "experiment" has failed.
3 posted on 11/30/2001 6:18:30 AM PST by lizma
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To: lizma
Indeed, it is one thing to show no repent to terrorists, it is another thing to show Europe no repent. Ultimately a confrontation is going to be due.
4 posted on 11/30/2001 6:22:08 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: Capitalist Eric
As of right now all of this is still pending,the patriot act however has already been enacted.
I try not to get too upset about Brit bashing on FR but how do you justify
calling an entire nation spineless based on a news report about
something that may or may not happen.
5 posted on 11/30/2001 6:33:01 AM PST by damnlimey
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To: lavaroise; Darth Reagan
The British are a bunch of pansies. In England the CRIMINAL has the right to proceed about robbing your home in safety! You are NOT ALLOWED to defend yourself or your home. Infact, if you install any type of security that would endanger a criminal attempting to gain access to your home you are BREAKING THE LAW and must remove it! If you are assaulted by a criminal in your home and kill him, or attempt to and fail you will be arrested and charged with murder or attempted murder.

Sounds like I am making this up, but I am not.

I was in London in August and we went out to a pub for many drinks (imagine that). Well, during conversation I used the word "rape" to describe something. An englishmen next to us at the bar turned to me and said "i wouldnt use that word in this country." I asked why, and he replied "it's not a good idea. Trust me. Just don't use it."

6 posted on 11/30/2001 6:39:57 AM PST by Phantom Lord
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To: damnlimey
Whats "The Patriot Act"?
7 posted on 11/30/2001 6:42:23 AM PST by skeeter
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To: skeeter
This is thePatriot act
8 posted on 11/30/2001 6:46:55 AM PST by damnlimey
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To: damnlimey
Sorry. I thought you were referring to a British "Patriot Act".
9 posted on 11/30/2001 6:50:00 AM PST by skeeter
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To: lavaroise
what an incredibly dishonest thing for the lawmakers to put that provision in (#109). The sheeple phenomenon is very strong on both sides of the Atlantic.
10 posted on 11/30/2001 6:51:54 AM PST by Red Jones
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To: Phantom Lord
"The British are a bunch of pansies"
Wow,being polite gets harder and harder,
You go to "a" pub in london and feel qualified to make that statement.
Any where you go in the world there's a chance you'll run into a wanker or two.
Visiting London does not necessarily mean you've been to England.
11 posted on 11/30/2001 6:53:27 AM PST by damnlimey
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To: damnlimey
I am not calling the British pansies based on any experience I had in England. I am calling them pansies based on what has been going on over there for the past 10 years and a continued "wusification" of their nation and their ever eager attitude toward more government provided "security" and their willingness to allow any and all government intrusion into their lives and privacy.

The point of my story was I got the impression from him that if I said it again and the wrong person heard me say it I would be carted off by the authorities.

12 posted on 11/30/2001 6:59:27 AM PST by Phantom Lord
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To: damnlimey
Well, England used to be an empire that adequately felt that it had no reason to repent to continental Europe or third world countries. Much has changed indeed.
13 posted on 11/30/2001 7:03:51 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: damnlimey
It is worth noting that england is trend-leading in enacting the book '1984' into reality. 'Airfield One' is real, even if oceania is still trying to put the pieces together on this side.

I have spent extensive time in the UK (mainly scotland and england, less in wales), like the BRITISH people very much (these would be descendants of angles, jutes, frisians, saxons, norse, celts (p and q-speaking)and picts (if they weren't celts after all), not to mention norman french.), but am amazed at the degree to which the populace is resigned to measures that often read like some weird brave new world parody rather than real news.

Based on the attitudes and viewpoints I have picked up from people in the u.k., apparently the media and education system have done a fairly good job promoting the idea that all this crazy stuff is based on sound premises.

FOR EXAMPLE

THE police are to set up a secret database of children as young as three who they fear might grow up to become criminals. Youngsters who behave badly or commit trivial misdemeanours will be put on the confidential register so that they can be monitored and supervised throughout childhood.

This is not a novel I am promoting, this is from the telegraph on 25NOV01!!!

14 posted on 11/30/2001 8:02:52 AM PST by WoofDog123
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To: WoofDog123
Sorry, should have included Romans in my list above .
15 posted on 11/30/2001 8:04:59 AM PST by WoofDog123
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To: lavaroise
Fear not, the blood of the nobles and peasants of 1215 still runs in the viens of Englishmen. The situation just needs to get bad enough, and the EU is acting more and more like a teenage king.

16 posted on 11/30/2001 8:37:28 AM PST by William Terrell
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: damnlimey
Relax. I know too many of you to think that you're pansies. Met some SBS guys, for example...not too sure I'd be comfortable calling them wankers to their faces...

What I do see happening, based on a fairly comprehensive reading of your history, is one more episode where you aren't saying anything and putting up with the BS, and once again there will come a point at which the majority of your citizens will finally get fed up and say "enough of your silly-arse laws - now bugger off." As it is highly unlikely the EU will send in a battalion of Brussels bureaucrats as shock troops I suspect you'll be pretty safe in doing so. The lawyers will get rich though.

18 posted on 11/30/2001 8:55:28 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: lavaroise
Where's MadIvan in all of this?
Hope we hear from him soon!
19 posted on 11/30/2001 8:55:35 AM PST by Diogenes
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To: damnlimey
I apologize for the rudeness of some people around here. It really is well intentioned, though. Despite the amount of Brit-bashing that goes on here, most of it is out of the desire that your nation would stand closer by us, rather than with the Europhiles.

Britain is my second favorite country and I wish all of you good luck in the future- PLEASE try to retain your national identity.

20 posted on 11/30/2001 9:02:23 AM PST by Slim Pickens
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