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Are Mass. Libertarians Controlled by Homosexual Activists? It Appears as Though They Are
Mass News ^ | 12/05/01 | staff

Posted on 12/05/2001 4:50:14 AM PST by LarryLied

The Libertarian Party in Massachusetts appears to have been co-opted by homosexual activists.

Because of this, it is dividing conservatives and doing damage to “small government.” It is not helping it.

There are many indications that activist homosexuals have taken control. It was particularly obvious last year when homosexual lobbyists complained to Bay Windows that the Libertarians were working too hard for the cause and damaging it.

These actions of the Party are perfectly understandable if it is, in fact, controlled by homosexual activists.

It would not be difficult for a small group of dedicated people, who also have access to cash, to gain control because the Party is such a tiny organization. It’s difficult to get people to work in any of the parties, including the Democrats and Republicans. But in this small party, it would be rather easy to take it over for your own use.

One of the more surprising aspects is that the Libertarians do not even list the most prestigious libertarian organization in the country, the Cato Institute, on its website. Cato works tirelessly for small government and is widely recognized for its careful analysis of many important issues that all conservatives would applaud.

However, our state group does list, Gays and Lesbians for Individual Liberty, which it says is “a DC-area organization dedicated to the philosophy of individual sovereignty, both generally and as it applies to lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, and transpersons.” It lists this group even though the link does not work, apparently because the organization has gone out of business.

Exec. Director Tried to Answer Questions

We have to give credit to the Executive Director of the organization, Kamal Jain, who attempted to help us understand the dilemma, unlike Carla Howell who only wanted to run away.

But Jain’s answers would not make sense to any thinking conservative.

When he says, “Ultimately people need to face up to their own moral benchmarks. ... [A]s long as they don’t harm someone else, they should not be interfered with,” he is obviously not thinking clearly.

We agree with his statement in a theoretical sense. The problem arises in deciding when it is that a person’s beliefs “harm someone else.” When two adults engage in sexual conduct that results in a new life being born, almost everyone agrees that those adults should not be allowed to walk away with no responsibility whatsoever for the new life and let other adults assume its care.

One can argue that we will never be successful in forcing those people to assume their responsibilities if they don’t want to. That is very true. But we can certainly send a message to all of society that that is not what a mature adult will do. Otherwise, our liberty ceases to become a blessing and becomes a curse for selfishness.

The libertarian philosophy becomes a libertine philosophy of depraved conduct.

We have seen the number of children who live without a mother and a father grow to enormous numbers, and we have seen that such children have enormous problems.

This is an entirely new phenomenon that did not exist before the 1960s. To try to pretend that childish conduct of adults is not related to the serious problems of many of our youth can not be accepted as serious thought.

It is true that we will never be successful in making every marriage into a perfect relationship with every child in a loving home. But it also cannot be denied that we did a much better job of raising children when we made the attempt and had stronger marriages.

Postponement of Sex

When Betty Friedan wrote The Feminine Mystique she noted that sex at an early age was found in underdeveloped civilizations. In America, it was found in the slums. She said: "[A] certain postponement of sexual activity seemed to accompany the growth in mental activity required and resulted from higher education and the achievement of the professions of highest value to society."

In other words, free and open sex was not something new and modern. It was not a sexual "revolution," but merely a regression back to a less advanced society.

The figures that Friedan quoted were from the Kinsey report which showed that men who went to college had a totally different outlook on women than did the rest of the men in the population. "[E]arly sexual preoccupation seemed to indicate a weak core of self which even marriage did not strengthen," according to Friedan. "[T]he key problem in promiscuity is usually low self-esteem," according to Friedan.

If Jain wishes to argue that the state should not enter into marriage in any way, he would have a sound intellectual discussion. Most of us would not agree with him, but at least he would be making sense.

But when he merely opines that homosexuals should be allowed to marry also, he is merely being cute. Why is he picking out just homosexuals? Does he believe that men who have multiple wives should also be allowed to marry? Or how about women in group sex? How about heterosexual couples who want the benefits without the burdens of marriage?

Either he is not being serious with us or he is so surrounded by homosexuals that he is controlled by them.

It is not fair for him to assume that he is the only one who has homosexual friends or that all homosexuals want to get married. Neither is true. Many of us have friends who are homosexual and we have other friends who smoke cigarettes. They are still our friends, but it does not mean that we want them to teach our children that cigarettes or homosexuality are healthy and enjoyable.

The same holds true for marijuana. One can argue intelligently that we should end the drug war. That does not mean everyone has to agree on the issue, but at least there can be intelligent discussion. But when Jain gets into the effects of marijuana and says that it is less harmful than alcohol, one must wonder why he strays into this territory. He obviously does not understand that alcohol leaves the blood stream within hours, whereas marijuana stays in the fatty tissues for a long time and builds up as one continues to use the drug. He gives the impression that he is a happy user himself.

Effect on Afghanistan

Our country has always been a model for the world, one which our ancestors saw from afar and came to with great joy. We were known as a Puritan country where families were strong and children were loved. But since the 1960s, we have had a great regression in our morals. It has not been a sexual revolution as everyone has claimed. It has been a regression to the pagan days of old. All of our culture has glorified sex and drugs. Our movies and our music have all done so.

The people at a Planned Parenthood institute are telling us to encourage teenage sex. They have just completed a study which they claim says that America has more problems with teenage pregnancy because we are still a Puritan society and haven’t accepted the idea of teenage sexual activity as they do in Europe.

However, most people in Massachusetts still disapprove of what has been happening to our moral code. In fact, 92% of 600 persons polled in a telephone survey for MassNews reported that teenagers should not be encouraged to be sexually active. Of the 47% of the respondents who said they are liberals, it was 91% who felt that way.

The people in the Moslem world are shocked and repulsed by what they see happening in our country. This certainly has not helped our image in the world.

The Libertarians may believe that “small government” is the total answer. But it will not bring happiness by itself. If all we are thinking about is our own happiness without any thought to family or country, we will surely fail.

The Moslems are disturbed by what they see here. And they have a lot to be bothered about. We must change that image and recover a moral one that we used to have, with a belief in a God who is far more capable than we could ever imagine.

We see what has happened to women in Afghanistan over the last few years. But the image we send of “liberated” women, many of whom have become as lewd and coarse as men, is not going to help the women in Afghanistan. We need to once again see strong, resolute women who can work side-by-side with men as they used to, not radical feminists and lesbians who dislike men and seek to constantly fight with them. When we start to send that image of women, the quality of life for people all over the world will improve immensely.

Mass.Libertarians Supporting "Gay Marriage"


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; libertarians
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1 posted on 12/05/2001 4:50:14 AM PST by LarryLied
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To: LarryLied
I am a libertarian, but I disavow all relationship to the Libertarian Party. It is full of kooks and whackos. The most distressing part about the Libertarians has revealed itself since 9/11. Protecting our nation is one of the few things actually authorized by the constitution, yet the Libertarians are out whining like a bunch of commie Vassar professors. It tells me that many of them are in fact contrarians rather than libertarians. That is, they are just against whatever most other people are for.
2 posted on 12/05/2001 4:57:57 AM PST by Rodney King
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To: Rodney King
Thanks. Your insight is appreciated and it helped me see a bit more clearly why I ascribe to much of what libertarians are about but disagree completely with the Libertarian Party. A guess is that the phylosophy, while fine for an individual, will not work with a group, since it does not favor group, but independent thought. And since libertarians are fairly individualistic, there is no way you will get a coherant group of them to agree about much of anything. But it does allow for the hijacking of the party by a group that is intent on it and has a single goal, such as the article has noted and the whole drug issue.
3 posted on 12/05/2001 5:34:01 AM PST by beekeeper
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To: Rodney King
I suspect more than a few liberals find the Libertarian party a nice place to hang out between elections. They get to push certain liberal causes, they have little fear the the party will accomplish anything in reducing the size of the state, they can feel good about themselves for taking "principled" stands and, on occasion, they are able to pick off a conservative running for office.
4 posted on 12/05/2001 5:39:10 AM PST by LarryLied
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To: Rodney King
Protecting our nation is one of the few things actually authorized by the constitution, yet the Libertarians are out whining like a bunch of commie Vassar professors. It tells me that many of them are in fact contrarians rather than libertarians. That is, they are just against whatever most other people are for.

Thanks for saying that.

5 posted on 12/05/2001 5:43:05 AM PST by L.N. Smithee
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To: Rodney King
[The Libertarian Party] is full of kooks and whackos.

And always will be.

You would do well to ask yourself what it is about the libertarian philosophy that the kooks and whackos find so irresistably appealing.

6 posted on 12/05/2001 5:47:18 AM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: Rodney King
Agreed. Libertarians are as much libertarians as Democratic Representatives are democratic representatives.
7 posted on 12/05/2001 5:52:05 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: Rodney King
I agree the party has that stupid illogical non inititation of force pledge. That prevents a preemptive strike.
8 posted on 12/05/2001 5:53:49 AM PST by weikel
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To: weikel
I agree the party has that stupid illogical non inititation of force pledge. That prevents a preemptive strike.

Oh Lord, here we go again. Remind me to slap your for something you might do.

9 posted on 12/05/2001 5:59:02 AM PST by FreeTally
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To: LarryLied
I hate to tell you this, but in the People's Republic of Massachusetts, the Democrats and Republicans are also controlled by homosexual activists.

Ex. Gov Paul Celluci(Rep.) was a very good "friend of Dorothy" and received a patronage award.

10 posted on 12/05/2001 5:59:06 AM PST by bulldog905
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To: LarryLied
The figures that Friedan quoted were from the Kinsey report...

<sarcasm> The great, wonderful, error-free, perfect, unbiased kinsey report</sarcasm>

Of course, much the same thing could be said about anything Betty writes also...
11 posted on 12/05/2001 5:59:25 AM PST by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: FreeTally
If you had a lot of evidence I might do something then you might want to kill or arrest me to prevent me from doing it before I did it.
12 posted on 12/05/2001 6:00:34 AM PST by weikel
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To: beekeeper
Yours is perhaps the most insightful post, by a sympathetic voice, that I have seen at FR about the flaws of libertarianism.

I have often challenged the rabid libertarians here to tell me the flaws of libertarianism (implemented as a political movement or scheme of governance) and have gotten back nothing but resolute denials that Libertarianism has any flaws--apart from the fact that it cannot imposed fast enough on the people across the depth and length of this nation.

Truth is, libertarianism as method of governance has terrible flaws--the chief flaw being that it can only succeed where the people are strongly self-disciplined and believe in and subscribe to a set of immutable moral laws, a people who eschew moral relativism.

Libertarianism is a theory in search of a nation comprised of a better quality of human beings across the board than it typically attracts.

13 posted on 12/05/2001 6:03:51 AM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: FreeTally
Remind me to slap your for something you might do.

A mentally-unbalanced man parks a van in front of a hospital. Through the window it can be seen that the van is filled with explosives and that the man, giggling and muttering incoherently, is holding a trigger in his hand with his thumb resting lightly on it. What do you do in libertopia?

Why, in libertopia you arrest whoever it was who looked in the window. He obviously violated the privacy rights of the kook--er, law-abiding citizen--holding the trigger.

Arrest a drunken driver? Nah! Let's let him wipe out an entire family first. Then we'll hold him accountable.

And you wonder why libertarianism has a public image problem.

14 posted on 12/05/2001 6:13:20 AM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: LarryLied
With this editorial, it's become quite clear that the Massachusetts News has only one goal in mind: strengthening the Massachusetts Democratic Party and re-enforcing the one-party government we have here in the Commonwealth. It's clear the Massachusetts News isn't interested in becoming the one news source in Massachusetts dedicated to the "truth." Rather, it views itself as a wedge between libertarian conservatives and GOP conservatives.

It's a crying shame that the Massachusetts News would rather act like a petulant child than help defeat the monolithic Democratic party in Massachusetts.


15 posted on 12/05/2001 6:16:23 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
Libertarian "conservatives" help the conservative cause in MA? All I've seen them do elsewhere is knock off Republican candidates. Nevada in 2002 is the best example. Ensign probably agrees with the LP on 85% or more of their issues. But that wasn't good enough. He had to go. After that success, the LP followed up and knocked off Gorton in 2000. Now we have Democrats running the US Senate. With "conservatives" such as those in the LP, who needs enemies?
16 posted on 12/05/2001 6:36:13 AM PST by LarryLied
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
Oops...the Reid/Ensign Nevada Senate race was in 1998. 2002 is not here yet.I think.
17 posted on 12/05/2001 6:37:58 AM PST by LarryLied
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To: LarryLied
**But we can certainly send a message to all of society that that is not what a mature adult will do. Otherwise, our liberty ceases to become a blessing and becomes a curse for selfishness. The libertarian philosophy becomes a libertine philosophy of depraved conduct.**

And therein lies the crux of the argument between libertarians and the general conservatives on FR. What the libertarian sees as "freedom" (to do drugs, prostitution, abortion, etc.), most other conservatives see as selfish and dangerous to the community as a whole. It's a disagreement that extends far beyond homosexuality.

They talk a good game about reducing the size of government (so do Republicans) but unfortunately haven't shown much effectiveness in actually getting it done. When it comes back to social issues, this freedom-vs-responsibility argument rears its head at every turn.

18 posted on 12/05/2001 6:40:42 AM PST by Tall_Texan
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To: LarryLied
Libertarian "conservatives" help the conservative cause in MA?

I certainly do. The only time I've voted non-GOP was for Carla Howell versus Kid Chappaquiddick.

19 posted on 12/05/2001 6:42:56 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
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To: Kevin Curry
I have often challenged the rabid libertarians here to tell me the flaws of libertarianism (implemented as a political movement or scheme of governance) and have gotten back nothing but resolute denials that Libertarianism has any flaws--apart from the fact that it cannot imposed fast enough on the people across the depth and length of this nation.

BS. Libertarianism has plenty of flaws, as does any political theory on the planet. Political theory is devised by humans, therefore, it is inherently flawed. In fact, as a card-carrying member of the LP, I'll grant you that one of liberarianism's greatest flaws is that it does, in fact, insist upon personal responsibility.

Ironically, that's one of its greatest strengths, too: the individual is respected as a sovereign.


20 posted on 12/05/2001 6:51:01 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
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